Retirement Crisis & Coverage Gaps: Live from Vegas

[0:00] JD: Okay. [0:01] Chad: Nothing can be worse than Malort. [0:03] Justin: That's true. But this is not good. [0:07] Mark: And Malort is good. [0:09] Speaker E: What is Malort? [0:09] Chad: I've gotten used to Chicago the way it was described. Honestly, it's like in ashes from an ashtray, poured in with coffee grounds, poured over the bar mat and then poured into your cup. [0:23] Speaker E: Okay. [0:23] Chad: And it goes. It immediately starts and you're like, oh, this is not that bad. Yes. [0:27] Mark: Oh, the aftertaste is what gives me. [0:29] Chad: Oh, okay. [0:30] JD: You weren't kidding. Okay, cool. And a one, and a one, two, three. Welcome everybody, to another episode of Retireholics. Coming to you live from the well Fit work conference in Las Vegas, Nevada. [0:53] Chad: I don't know, your energy level is pretty low there. [0:58] JD: Fired up. Thanks. [0:59] Justin: You don't seem like it. [1:00] Mark: Seem like you're hung over a little bit. [1:02] JD: I'm only down $120. [1:04] Justin: 100. I'm down. [1:06] Chad: Where the other 20 come from? [1:07] JD: I played a little video poker on the way back. 100 bucks on the blackjack table. But I was proud of myself cuz I played $50 bets. $25 bets. It lasted about two minutes. [1:21] Mark: Yeah. Want to say five minutes? Yeah. [1:24] JD: Where are you guys at? I'm down. I want to know the total of the retire. [1:27] Mark: Ollie, you're down. [1:28] Chad: I'm up 55. [1:30] JD: You're down 200. [1:31] Chad: Yeah. [1:31] JD: Damn. [1:32] Justin: Yeah, I got 100 bets. Funny story. I was doing good and then I had $25 left. Walked by roulette table. I was like, oh, just put it on black in green again. It happened again. [1:43] Mark: I'm gonna need an advantage, please. [1:45] Justin: I don't learn my lesson. [1:46] JD: Sorry. Say that again. [1:46] Mark: I'm needing advance on next paycheck. [1:48] Chad: He needs more gambling tonight. [1:50] JD: I did fund that. [1:50] Chad: I was gonna say you did fund half of your losses, but it was [1:53] Justin: half of what you gave us last time. So the other half comes today. [1:56] Mark: Right? [1:56] JD: We're gonna. We're gonna go. We're gonna go. We're gonna be really efficient with this show. Says me. Now we'll see. [2:03] Mark: Depends on how much time you spend on headlines. [2:05] JD: Show is Coors Lights. [2:06] Mark: Okay. [2:07] JD: And yes, Justin. So we're going to intro our guest. [2:12] Chad: All right. [2:13] Mark: I don't think you need to tell people what I'm going to do. I think they know you just said Justin. [2:16] JD: Everybody out there. This is the time of the show where. [2:20] Mark: Get that thing. [2:21] Justin: Oh, God, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. [2:25] Speaker E: You honestly have no idea what is happening right here. [2:29] Justin: Okay? [2:30] Speaker E: Just take it away. [2:31] Mark: I can't take it away right now. All right. This three time chat bar champion is a former draft dodger turned air Force captain. Thirty plus years of service, combat medals, citations. Only man to shoot down three enemy mutant planes in the last 40 years. [2:59] JD: Sa, [3:28] Mark: You won't retire. And despite your best efforts, you refuse to die. You should be at least a two star admiral by now. Yet here you are, guests on the retired halls. Why is that? [3:39] Speaker E: It's one of life's mysteries, sir. [3:41] Chad: You got it that good? [3:42] Speaker E: Wow. [3:44] Mark: Anyways, fun fact, Kush isn't even his real last name. It's his call sign, given to him because he was the drug mule of the mess hall. His drug of choice, you guessed it, cannabis. And now here he is today, ladies and gentlemen, Michael Kushner. [4:00] Chad: Justin, I like that one. I didn't get to wrap the ending. [4:04] Mark: I didn't get a nice little rounded out. [4:06] Speaker E: Not cannabis, by the way. [4:08] Mark: No, that's kush. [4:09] JD: I'm going 10 out of 10. [4:10] Chad: That was solid. [4:10] JD: Just saying. Kush, I love that you're here. Last year when we did Vegas, we kind of did shows with like chat bar people. And so you're. You're a family of the retireholics. You've been with us a long time. It's awesome to have you here on the couch. So I'm loving this. [4:27] Speaker E: It's awesome to be here. It really is. [4:28] JD: This will be fun. We're gonna play some games. You're aware of these games? [4:31] Justin: There is a little bit of it. You're behind a computer, chatting, saying some things. [4:36] Chad: Yeah. See if you can hold up. You need to hold up for that. [4:38] Justin: Yeah. You got a little picture. [4:40] Chad: There's an expectation here. [4:41] Speaker E: It's fine. [4:41] JD: Is he edgy in the chat bar? [4:43] Mark: Tries to be. [4:45] Speaker E: I didn't think I won three times. [4:46] JD: We're gonna play these games. [4:47] Chad: Daniela wasn't there. [4:50] Speaker E: Touche. [4:50] JD: You're very familiar with these games. Number one is Acro Sin. Acro Sin starts now. What are we drinking? It's cracking. [4:56] Justin: I'm Kraken attacks Vegas. Okay, I think it's rum. [5:00] JD: And we'll play a little wheel of Ice. Fuck the chatbot champion today. This is an off show. We will be going this Thursday night. [5:07] Chad: Yeah, it is rum. [5:08] Mark: You win. [5:09] Chad: We're working on it. [5:10] Justin: Okay. [5:11] JD: From a headline standpoint, you guys win. No, you guys win. Chat. Congratulations to the three people. [5:18] Speaker E: That's the only reason they're here. [5:20] Justin: You should be over there learning. [5:21] Chad: And you're here going to deliver them [5:23] Mark: pizza by tomorrow's show. [5:24] JD: Yeah, no, it's coming right now. [5:26] Chad: I just stored out 1205. [5:28] JD: We'll go to headlines. Headlines. Brandon, I don't know if he's sober, he probably won't be able to do headlines, but. Oh, there we go. About 30 minutes ago, I asked you guys to sit down and watch a video. It's a CNBC piece on the retirement crisis. Y' all watched it. Chad, maybe you can kind of lay it out for people. [6:01] Chad: Everybody that's tuning into this knows the issues that already exist. There's a coverage gap. People are living longer, they're saving less. What was astonishing in there was that what some four or five participants in retirement plans feel that they're on track to retire. [6:16] JD: 70 to 80%. [6:17] Chad: 70 to 80. [6:18] Justin: There's five of us here. There's five of us here. [6:20] Chad: Are you on track? [6:21] Mark: Oh, yeah. [6:22] Justin: Are you on track? [6:23] Chad: I'm definitely on track. [6:24] Justin: Are you on track? [6:25] Speaker E: I'm gonna be working up until my funeral luncheon. [6:27] Justin: Yeah, I'm not on track. Are you on track? [6:30] Speaker E: Oh, wow. [6:30] Mark: Four out of five. [6:31] Justin: That's right. [6:31] Mark: There we go. [6:32] Justin: Exact DNA. [6:33] JD: My wife might disagree with that, but [6:35] Chad: I feel like, well, it depends on the life you're gonna live in retirement. JD you got a high nothing crack there. [6:39] JD: They. There was some depressing stuff in there. [6:42] Chad: That's what I was just saying. [6:42] JD: They showed an older woman and a really crappy little apartment home. [6:47] Mark: It was a. I want to know. [6:49] Chad: She was. [6:49] Justin: She was well spoken to get into [6:52] JD: that role, though, like, is this in all honesty, she was being honest and saying, hey, I'm on a mega fixed income kind of thing. [7:00] Chad: She had 6, 610 in pension and 1500 in Social Security is what she had. And she was saying, if I need to see a specialist doctor, I can't. I can't afford to do it. [7:10] JD: And so that was. And then we also saw that, what was it, 60% of small businesses are not offering a plan, which we've all heard this. So the message that we were hearing was, oh my gosh, not only are we seeing these people in retirement that are struggling, we're letting down a lot of people right now. They're going to become those people in the future. Don't these hit pieces on retirement always come out when the markets are down? Inflation's high. Don't you feel like this is when this stuff comes out? [7:44] Chad: Or am I. I've only kind of lived through this last 15 years of massive bull run, so I don't know if I have the experience to answer [7:53] Justin: that question, but I Wouldn't call that a hit piece because they were playing both sides of the coin like they were given the pros and the cons. [7:59] JD: But the scary retirement is failing stuff always seems to come out with these markets are down. Kush. Markets are down big. They gave us some number of like trillions of dollars have been lost in the stock market over the, you know, last 3.4, 3.4 trillion that impacts people's retirement. [8:18] Speaker E: Absolutely, absolutely. But it's also, you know, when you look at the other side of that argument that remember that the news media, they're a goodwill enterprise, they're a for profit. So they're going to put out there was going to sell. [8:30] Justin: Oh, you're going that route here. [8:34] Speaker E: There's truth to it. I understand. But on the other side of that argument, though, when you're having a conversation with a participant, you know, and you try to tell them this is the time when, all right, the market's down, your affordable cannot be down. Increase your contributions. This is when you should be doing. And people are like, absolutely not, I want to get out. And you know my argument. [8:51] Chad: They're struggling to pay rent, [8:54] Speaker E: they're struggling to pay. It isn't. But you know, do you really miss 1 or 2% from your paycheck when. When they're taken down? [9:01] Mark: Well, if I'm looking at 50% inflation, [9:04] Chad: possibly people are saying they can't go see a specialty doctor when, when milk is $9, sediment is right. [9:09] JD: Don't forget we're talking two different types of people here. [9:13] Justin: Kush. [9:13] JD: That story is very accurate to someone who's early on or even in the middle, you know, they're in their 50s or 60s. Different story. When you're 70, 75, and you've built up as much as you can and then you take this massive hit, you know, that they're in a different position, which we've talked about ad nauseum on this show. But you're totally right. When markets are down, it's great to talk to participants about, hey, can we find somewhere to chunk some more money in here? Because there's an opportunity. [9:42] Speaker E: And the other part of that too is, you know, being in the education part of this retirement space. Where were their consultants, where were their advisors 20 years ago when they were getting to that part where they should say, you know, hey, maybe you shouldn't be in all large cap or international funds. Maybe we should start looking at some more conservative, conservative money. [10:02] Chad: And it made it pretty clear in that coach, as the industry transitioned from pension plans to Defined contribution plans. That, that gap, that window of those baby boomers that didn't save immediately because they thought, I'm going to have pension, Social Security, it's going to be exactly. The pension didn't accumulate to be enough. [10:20] JD: Did you see the part where the older woman, the older broke woman said to the youth, you need to save more. Like I should have saved more. So I'm gonna ask a really hard question. People are gonna hate me for this. Is it the retirement industry's fault that that woman can't go to her next doctor's appointment or is it her fault? [10:42] Mark: And that's, that's a tough one, without a doubt. [10:44] Chad: Right. [10:44] Mark: And that's something I said to Chad. We had a conversation on it. But at what point do we put some blame on them and say, hey, look, it's your responsibility to take control of your life and save properly and not overextend yourself? [10:59] JD: She self admitted that. [11:00] Mark: Right. And the other part is too. I mean, they obviously came from an era where there were pensions that slowly made its way. They just properly care. And then your response was good, just can't afford to. [11:14] Chad: Well, to your point though, jd, as an industry, we're trying to help the majority. [11:21] JD: Well, that's the end cap on this. We talk about legislation. Right. [11:24] Chad: And that's where we need to get. Is it, is it their responsibility? Yes, they need to be saving, but can we find creative ways to help them? That's what we need to be doing. State mandates, auto features, proper education, small businesses, all that's for sure. Before you transition. The one point that I want to, to make earlier about the disconnect, because this was mind blowing to me, if would we say 80% of people believe they're on track, four out of five. And then the statistic on the back end was something along the lines of like 45% of people were actually on track of the people they can. Conflicting data that blew my mind that everybody thinks, oh, I'm doing enough. But statistically, numbers wise, you're actually not. Your financial future is insecure is the term. [12:06] JD: You have a fascination with participant education. You're into this stuff, the new app that's coming out that we hope nobody wants to drink crap next month or later this year with all the features that Chad's talking about, the auto enrollments, the credits to small businesses, do you feel like that thing can have an impact? [12:29] Speaker E: It will not immediately though. And it will. It won't be. It won't be. It will have an impact if there's Somebody actually giving this information and, and kind of hammering it home to the plan sponsors. [12:40] JD: Great point. [12:41] Speaker E: If you actually just send an email out, you know, for HR or your plants. The guy who doesn't drink. Now I got a drink. [12:50] Chad: Okay, you are holding a beer in your hand. [12:52] JD: Some of that's true Kush, but I'll challenge you here. But that's what Otto enrollment, auto increase savers, credits. I mean these maybe are programs that don't have to be pushed too hard because we're going to force them on these companies. [13:07] Speaker E: They are. Participants also have the option to opt out. They don't forget, you know and that's. They, they won't. You know it's that it reminds me of that old. Remember that, that guy used to get on TV and sell those, those rotisserie ovens. As catchphrase was set it in. You know, that's really how this works out. And it is a good thing. If participants, if they don't care enough to, to actually go in and enroll in a 401k plan and actually increase their contributions or look at their investments. They're not going to care that they're being put in at 3% and auto escalated 1% every year. So it will have an impact. It won't be immediate but I think it will. It's a good thing. [13:44] Chad: It's all about how we judge that impact. Right. If we look at the coverage gap it is having the state mandates and these things are having an immediate impact but we won't see see that for what we're trying to do which is help people in retirement. We're going to see that for 30 [13:56] JD: years but we can gauge some of that data. So anyways, the last part of this, this little mini documentary was legislation. So I recommend everyone look, look at it CNBC. It's on YouTube. It came out like four days ago. [14:10] Chad: I'll be noting the stats and using them. [14:12] Justin: Yeah, you said it again. [14:13] JD: Yeah, yeah, it took a little while. Another headline. Transamerica offering a year end incentives to attract small business plans. [14:27] Justin: What's the incentive? [14:28] JD: The incentive is Transamerica this week announced for small businesses that choose their retirement plan and health savings provider before the end of the year. Retirement plan and health savings Transamerica will waive administration and participant fees on their health savings account and flexible spending accounts for two quarters and then you get the Transamerica passport system for free if you join trans going or just to [15:02] Chad: start because there, that's, that's a good [15:05] JD: little kick to the employer during the retirement process plan's conversion period. I don't know. Sounds like we're assuming anyways we've seen incentives for sales. I don't think I've seen incentives for plan sponsors. [15:19] Justin: Oh yeah, this isn't new. Yeah. [15:21] Chad: Certainly the rec group is coming out during sales season and saying we, we want the business. We're willing to waive the up front. We're willing to waive the first year. [15:30] Justin: And this always comes out in the fourth quarter. [15:33] Chad: Right now it's always fourth quarter. [15:36] Justin: But they're look there end of the year numbers aren't there. You know, so you have a record keeper doing that because maybe they're hitting their numbers. [15:42] Chad: I don't want. [15:43] Justin: Maybe Transamerica didn't. [15:44] Chad: No. And it's not. I don't, I don't think it has to do with them even looking at numbers. [15:49] JD: Mark. [15:49] Chad: I think they're looking at this as a sales incentive. [15:53] Justin: Chad, what is sales numbers? Of course they're looking at numbers. Dude. [15:58] JD: The thing that. [15:59] Mark: Are you numbers? [16:00] JD: You ain't kidding right now. [16:02] Justin: It's like Jaeger. It's. [16:05] Chad: But worse. [16:05] JD: Yeah. Yeah. [16:06] Justin: It is like Jager Kush. [16:07] JD: Let's pivot from the benefit to the employers to the plan sponsors and let me. I'm sure you're aware of this but what if I told you that come selling season, come fourth quarter all these vendors reach out to these guys and offer them sales incentives. If you'll sell X amount with us before a year end or plants of this size, we'll give you guys extra revenue sharing. One time payment still a thing, right? [16:33] Chad: Yeah. [16:34] Justin: I don't see this much now. [16:35] JD: Are you okay? Does that make sense to you or does that seem a little dirty? [16:40] Speaker E: It's not as bad as the old Pharmaceutical Sales Inc. Used to get. The trips to Cancun and, and the, the, the limo rides everywhere. [16:50] Chad: Yep. [16:51] JD: Love them. [16:52] Speaker E: Is it, is it dirty? No. I mean you got to do in this industry. It's, it's cut as long as it's [16:58] Mark: coming from like a marketing budget. That's what I was not charging the client for it. [17:02] Chad: Like the five basis which they are. We all know that they've got to generate the revenue. [17:06] JD: Are they in place right now for you guys? [17:09] Chad: Not with. I mean Empower is the most recent one that sent theirs out but not really with the folks. [17:15] JD: I want the world to know if [17:17] Justin: you weren't aware if you are, are doing your job correctly, you don't let that impact. [17:24] Chad: No. [17:25] Justin: What you're trying to accomplish in helping a Client out like and it's pretty easy like yeah, not everybody [17:33] Mark: I guess [17:34] Justin: I'm just selling them now. [17:35] Chad: I mean we know Hackler's tainted by it and he retains that revenue for sure. [17:40] Mark: Takes it all in. [17:41] Chad: No, but J.D. the interesting thing is the whole wholesalers that know the third party administrators that offset that will use that to benefit their opportunity to win. The client will then be sending the email to the advisor, hey your, your TPA is going to get an extra $500 this for this plan and they'll offset it for you. So they're, they're using it to sell the plan and not giving us an opportunity to decide are we offsetting, keeping [18:08] JD: what are we doing? Probably would think that's the right way to do do it. But then why pay it? [18:11] Chad: Just tell them it's a plan sponsor incentive. Then don't go through all that back behind the scenes accounting. [18:17] JD: I just want everyone to know out there these things do exist and we do get these little programs towards the end of the year trying to motivate you guys. I love what you don't make it [18:26] Justin: sound like some big thing. It's not like thousands and thousands of dollars. It's very, very small. [18:31] JD: If anything I think it's kind of silly to be honest. [18:34] Justin: For sure, I agree. [18:35] JD: Like you said, I don't think it's to change any. [18:37] Chad: I did that earlier. [18:38] JD: It'd be interesting to see what the numbers look like. [18:40] Chad: It doesn't motivate us although. It doesn't motivate us. Everybody should know as well on the same topic, these record keepers do often require a certain number of plans sold per year. And I know that there are other competitors out there that will look at that and be like hey, we have to sell three more plans with this record keeper in order to get our revenue share, period. Now that's a big check. That could be 20, 30, 40, 40, 50 grand to not qualify for their. [19:06] JD: I mean it's not something I think want to exist in our industry. [19:11] Chad: I wish it didn't. Imagine how much easier it'd make accounting if it didn't. [19:14] JD: We're gonna spin the old Wheel of Ice and then we're talking to Kush about participation. Here we go, the Wheel of Ice. [19:23] Justin: Let's do it. [19:24] JD: There's no song, right? [19:25] Chad: We just spin it and what's it? Yellow means it's regular. Regular mark. [19:33] Justin: Oh man. Back to the old days. [19:36] JD: Here there's no makers involved here, [19:41] Chad: one missing. [19:41] JD: All right. You spend time on the front lines. I've sat with participants. You've been in these meetings. Give us some taste of your history in this, your experience in this. [19:55] Speaker E: So this is what I started out doing in this business was I worked for a firm that. Participant education. [20:00] JD: That was their gig. Just education? [20:03] Speaker E: No, they were. They were a provider consulting firm, but I was hired to do their participant education. [20:09] Chad: Okay. [20:10] Speaker E: And so what I found is, you [20:12] JD: know, did you have to bring the pizza to the back of the room or was it there waiting for you? [20:16] Speaker E: It was. I never did that, actually. Never. I had to do the food. No food. [20:20] Chad: I'm not sure. [20:21] JD: I'm sorry for interrupting. [20:22] Speaker E: So what I have found, and you know, this started in 2015, and what I have found recently is, and I've always said this, that participants want a conversation, not a presentation. Providers, a lot of times will send out presentations. They'll say, here's your thing. Read this. [20:40] JD: You're seeing the deck. [20:42] Speaker E: You don't want to do that. So it was an interesting part or interesting thing that happened, you know, the last couple of years, because in March of 2020, all those in person meetings all of a sudden came to a stop. And, you know, when I, when I say, you know, we were impacted by it, and I mean, we, as in kids in kindergarten and all the way through presidents and CEOs went to a virtual. Okay. Presidents and chief executive officers were thrust into a virtual world, and that became the norm for the last two years. So you were now in front of a computer doing PowerPoint presentations. You were talking. You couldn't actually. It's hard to read a room. You guys know when you do the. Yeah, you can. And that's, you know, where the participant engagement part comes from. You're not able to engage or look at someone or have someone raise their hand and ask a question. People on these Zoom meetings, you know, they might log on and go take their kid to soccer practice. They might go do the dishes, they may get shower, do laundry. You don't know, doing. [21:40] JD: So you didn't like. [21:41] Speaker E: No, I. I hated it because you, you can't get involved with a person [21:45] JD: because a lot of people looked at it and were like, put all the positive around it, like, right. Like it's. [21:50] Chad: So what else are you going to do from home? [21:52] JD: And you're going like, oh, no. It took the air out of the room. Like, I was. [21:56] Speaker E: Absolutely did. And you can't have someone grab you as you're walking out saying, listen, I have a question about this and, or, you know, I have an, an immediate need right now. How can you help me fix it? They don't do that. They just log off. [22:05] Mark: And it would have helped that because so many people are so apprehensive during those meetings to, you know, talk and ask questions. Right. That's what I'm saying. Like, hey, cool, I can just mic. That's very. [22:22] Chad: Yeah. [22:22] JD: Okay, well, let me ask you this thing. Kush. [22:25] Chad: What'd you do? [22:25] JD: Are we gonna live in this covet hangover or are these live education meetings happening again? [22:31] Speaker E: They're. They're starting again. They're starting to come back when. When the world's going back to work now. And, you know, again, it's funny that we are. We are going back to work, going back to doing these things. But it's interesting that we kind of followed what happened in the school system. So when the kindergartners went. Stayed home, that's. We followed that. Now they're all back to school full time. They're back in person. So it's like, okay, now if they're comfortable with it, then we can start doing it again. We can start going back. And people started going back to work. I know a lot of companies offer the option to do remote or come in person. And. And rightfully so. You have to. But yeah, you're starting. We're starting to see that. You're going to start seeing more in person meetings. [23:11] JD: You are an advocate of the live meaning. [23:15] Speaker E: Absolutely. [23:17] Chad: Is that what you're saying? [23:20] Justin: No. [23:22] Chad: Did we decide. We've debated that one a while ago. [23:24] Mark: I think it is actually. [23:27] JD: I'll drink, but something. [23:29] Mark: It's something virus. [23:30] JD: Yeah, I said. I said, blah, blah, blah, hangover. [23:35] Chad: Now you get a drink of the crackle afterwards. [23:38] Justin: Hey, Will, why don't you go learn? Get out of here, buddy. [23:41] Mark: He's learning right now. [23:47] JD: I do know that in the old days, when we have any more downturns in the market. [23:52] Chad: Yeah, they're in the fridge. [23:53] JD: It was a time where good plant sponsors would get together and be like, what? What are we supposed to do? And education was usually the answer, right? Like, it was like, okay, markets are gnarly. We need to get someone out in front of them to, like, answer their questions, let them know to stay the course, you know, and talk about those types of things. So you would think now more than ever, plant sponsors might be willing to murf past the pandemic and the virtual stuff and get people out in front of their employees, given the markets are dealing with. [24:24] Speaker E: To be honest with you, the. Oh, I almost caught myself. The employee retirement income security act violations didn't stop because of COVID They, you know there's still lawsuits happening since you [24:38] JD: can't get lawsuited for not having education. [24:41] Chad: He said the same thing JD did. [24:43] JD: What do you say? [24:44] Chad: Coronavirus. But you said the abbreviation for it because apparently that is it now. [24:49] JD: You can't get lawsuit if you're not having education. [24:51] Justin: Dude, you get some good ones, right? [24:54] Speaker E: You listen, if you have a good enough lawyer that's going to go out there, you're going to go. It takes one pistol participant. [25:01] JD: I just mean let's have that conversation. There's. There's no black and white rule that says a plan sponsor has to have participants education. Am I wrong? [25:11] Speaker E: There's no black and white rule. But if it's in the plan document and says that they're going to the provider or the advisor, you have an advisor that's going to provide educational document. Yeah, it's. If it's in there and you're not doing it again, it's one pissed off employee that's going to say, well, my 401k is down 20, 30%. Whose fault is it? [25:27] Chad: And you have to give them access, J.D. your fault. But you have to give them access to tools. Tools, guidance, information. [25:36] JD: They all do. I'm not sure it's the right thing to do. [25:39] Chad: Here would be my question to Kush. You've lived through it. Now you went into this virtual world. You're coming out of this virtual world. What are you doing that you feel like is working to meet these people's needs, to spend time with these participants? [25:55] Speaker E: What I find is there's two answers to that question from the plan participant and the planned sponsor. And what I think is talking to participants and talking to the plan sponsor to start with and saying what is the conversation? What's the problem going on in your office right now? Because I can come in and talk about Social Security, but if you have a group of employees that are 20, 25 year old, it doesn't apply to them. [26:20] JD: You're talking about customization. [26:22] Speaker E: It's customization to what is their needs. And if it means doing three meetings. I've actually had a client where I did meetings. I did new employees, I did people under 40 and people over 40. [26:32] JD: Right. [26:33] Speaker E: Three different meetings for three different demographics in the company. [26:35] Chad: What if you were 40? [26:37] Speaker E: Well, then you get a pass. You don't have to go. [26:40] JD: Yeah, no, but your original point was. Because I grew up with the old PowerPoint deck. How did it work? It talked about. It talked about power compounding and asset allocation. And you could say this much to this much. It's like the classic PowerPoint deck where everyone's just sitting there like drooling and like. [27:04] Chad: I think you all missed my question though, JD and sorry to cut you off. That would be what we have done and perhaps it is what we are still doing. But I'm saying we're in a different situation where not everybody is in the office, not everybody wants to come spend time with people. You ask about masks. Some people still are wearing masks and don't want to be around. We have to be doing something different. What are we doing different as an industry? [27:28] JD: Customization. [27:29] Speaker E: Customization. But different. What I've done, what I'm doing now is what I've always done in the past. So I would have an in person meeting for a participant, for a provider. Sorry provider. A plan sponsor, go to the client, do an in person meeting and I would go back if I was traveling into the hotel or go back to the office the following day or whatever. And I would actually record on gotomeeting the meeting that I just did delivered to the participants, send it to the plan sponsor. Then they actually can post it to their Internet. They can post it or they can send it out as an email. [27:57] Chad: They didn't come. [27:57] Speaker E: Okay, right. For. They didn't come. But it's also a cover your ask point for the plan sponsor where they can say, okay, you now you did receive education where a participant can say, I didn't know. I wasn't there. I didn't know that we were changing this. [28:11] JD: Let me ask you a tough question. [28:12] Chad: Okay. [28:12] JD: And I'm going to. I'm going to ask another obin. Oh, do we, do we really want to educate participants? I mean do you want them educated? [28:23] Speaker E: That's. [28:24] Justin: Or do you just. [28:25] JD: Why would you not like. [28:26] Chad: Because he's saying auto fe. No, just make it. Make it. [28:29] Justin: No education. [28:30] JD: You'd rather them do. [28:31] Justin: The more you sponsors, we talk about [28:34] Chad: that all the time. [28:35] Justin: You overthink things, the less you know. [28:44] JD: You just mean if they were just didn't know anything and were confused, it'd [28:48] Justin: be fun to watch them squirm and [28:49] JD: try to find investments. [28:51] Justin: That's what I do. That's how I live my life. [28:53] JD: More exciting way to go about it. [28:54] Mark: That's why you're not on track retirement. [28:56] Chad: Whether we're right or wrong, J.D. i think that we believe as an industry we know what is right for the majority. Disclaimer. Disclaimer. Disclaimer. [29:05] Justin: Joe, I don't Know, hopefully people out there aren't super serious. [29:08] Chad: We believe we know what's right for the vast majority as an industry and we believe we need to communicate that out to that vast majority. And so if auto features are it, if education is it, which I don't, I don't think it is, I don't think people want to know. [29:22] JD: I don't either. [29:23] Chad: I think they want to be comfortable when they reach retirement. They want to know that they're doing the right thing. But they don't want, they don't want to know about. What's the Tommy boy quote? That guy asked the butcher for this. Like, I'm not going to put my head up. [29:36] Speaker E: Get a good look at a butcher's ass by sticking your head up there [29:42] JD: and say it. We should just auto enroll these. They don't want to them and just tell them, Tommy, Julie, telling, Don't worry about it. It's taken care of. We got you covered. [29:53] Chad: It's a pension taken care of. [29:55] Mark: And that's how we get to the same situation though. [29:58] Speaker E: So listen. [29:59] Mark: Yeah, they do, but it's not really. [30:00] Speaker E: I had a participant meeting not long ago. We were talking about the market being down and we talked about this a little bit ago where participants, you know, they stopped their contributions when the market selling, they lost 40% and had enough of a person. No one would be there to explain to them. When you're making a contribution to your retirement plan, what are you doing? What's that money doing? It's buying something. [30:19] Chad: You're getting more. [30:20] Speaker E: Okay, so it's down 40%. If you were going to buy a car or an appliance for your home and the price went down 40%, would you say, no, I'm not going to buy it now. I'm going to wait till it goes back up. No, you'd buy two refrigerators. Right? [30:30] Justin: So no, you wouldn't do that. That's dumb. [30:36] Speaker E: If I'm not in person to explain that scenario to somebody, they're not going to get it. So then they're like, oh yeah, that does make sense. [30:42] JD: We could, we could auto increase them when markets are down. [30:46] Justin: Yeah, hey, I'm around JD but at [30:49] JD: a certain age bracket, maybe you could do that. You'd be like, why do my deferral just go from 10 to 14 in [30:56] Chad: order to auto anything, they have to be auto. [30:59] Mark: Yeah, but now I can't pay my mortgage. [31:02] Chad: I didn't mean to offend you with that statement. When I'm talking about the, the majority, the quiet majority is the people I think we need to help these. I'm not saying slow down education because there are people like me, it's needed that want to learn, that are going to ask that question, that need to hear that to make a change in what they would defer or continue to defer. I'm saying that we also need to couple that with what I think the majority needs which is their handheld. They need to be guided down the right path. Agreed. [31:30] Mark: But the uneducated is how we get in the same position. The NBA check swing. [31:35] JD: No, but she would have been auto enrolled. But she's not the old lady. [31:40] Mark: Yeah but what I'm saying is if we're going to make this just completely automatic for everybody and they're just not going to pay attention to anything, they're likely going to get in a position because they think they're perfectly fine. They're not paying attention to their best [31:51] Chad: issue we're in now. That's a good point. [31:53] Mark: And you know they're not. They're not adjusting what they're you know rebalancing their portfolios or anything like that. [31:58] Justin: I understand how anybody can think that that just because something's done for them if they're just okay because I think [32:05] Chad: we're gonna do it. [32:07] Justin: I put the onus back on to them. [32:09] Mark: Hey Martin, really you need. Are you bills on autopay? [32:13] JD: Huh? [32:13] Mark: Are you bills on auto pay? [32:14] Justin: No, I don't trust still I pay my bills more than I want to pay them. [32:18] Chad: That's a really good point. [32:21] Speaker E: No, I just want to make one other point about that too though. So I'm 49. If you go back 20, I'll be. [32:27] Justin: You're so close to catch ups. [32:29] Speaker E: I had to say everybody's thinking it's but 20 years ago did when I was 39 did I anticipate a 9-11-a market real estate crash? Coronavirus. [32:44] Mark: Hold on real quick. I am not certain it actually it stands for coronavirus disease. [32:49] JD: I know, I don't. [32:50] Chad: I don't think it counts. [32:52] Mark: I don't think it counts. [32:54] JD: But what's your point? [32:55] Speaker E: But what my point is, you know, the people that are younger, they need to think about these things. It's like okay, well these things have happened. The market moves. It's cyclical. It goes up and down like that. But when you have something like this that we've had the September 11th the market crash or the real estate crash and the coronavirus with the markets crashed, you have to plan for that and you have to understand that now is the time when the market is down, when you should be saving more money. [33:22] JD: What auto and enrollment won't do, an auto increase won't do is pay attention to the world around them and take advantage of those times. [33:29] Speaker E: That's true. And as a young person, you have to be thinking about it. Okay. You know, you don't like to say what's next because what's next will come. But next thing that's going to happen is going to. [33:36] Chad: Cause that's individualized. [33:37] JD: So you know what sucks? You know what sucks? The answer is somewhere in between. You're supposed to do both. We're going to auto enroll them, we're going to auto increase them, and then we're going to provide them education. [33:48] Chad: But that's. And I think that in this conversation, that's what has come out. JD it really has, is that a lot of people need the auto side and the folks who want to listen and will take some directive and will make changes need the education side. [34:03] Justin: At the end of the day, though, you said earlier, at the end of the day, auto's great, but I can still go. [34:10] Chad: Nah, no, that's fine. [34:12] Mark: That's on you. [34:13] Chad: You're going to do that. [34:15] JD: That's why I'm saying it's more auto. On the person, not so much. [34:18] Justin: What's going on? [34:20] JD: I wanted to wrap this one. Brandon, can you hear me? [34:23] Justin: Auto enroll with you. [34:26] JD: Think audio is going to work as everyone floods in here? Who knows? That's Brandon's standard response to things I asked me this. I don't know. [34:35] Speaker E: All right. [34:35] JD: No, for D, let's play the totally original and, you know, do it totally awesome. No, for dub game. [34:41] Chad: It's up there. [34:42] Mark: Is it? [34:42] Chad: There's just no audio. There it is. You ever actually skateboard when you were young? [34:52] JD: You skateboard as a surfer till about, like, age 11 or 12, and then you realize you get hurt too much [34:59] Justin: when you fall concrete. [35:00] JD: Yeah, the water's much better. Kush, I'm going to go to you first. [35:06] Mark: Full sleep at the end of it. [35:07] JD: You didn't partition taking this, so it'd be great to get your insights on this. It's late night, you're in Las Vegas, you're hungry, waiting in a line for an hour to get pizza. [35:21] Mark: Oh, hold on. [35:22] Speaker E: Dope. [35:22] Mark: Secret pizza. Secret pizza. [35:24] JD: Secret pizza. [35:25] Speaker E: Secret pizza. [35:26] Chad: Dope. [35:27] Speaker E: There's no pizza in the world worth an hour if I'm starving. [35:29] JD: An hour. [35:29] Speaker E: No. [35:30] JD: Obviously means you feel different, Justin. Nope. [35:32] Chad: Means I ain't cool. [35:33] Justin: He's calling us dope. Dope. [35:34] Chad: He's like, yeah, man, that's my bad. [35:36] Speaker E: Yeah. Nope. Absolutely not. [35:38] JD: Justin, you would do it. [35:40] Mark: We did it and we enjoyed. [35:42] Chad: We did it because we had no other choice. It's over. Sure. No. [35:45] Mark: Hey, did every one of you enjoy that pizza? [35:47] Chad: Absolutely. Would I have rather gone sushi? Three minutes. [35:50] Mark: Shut your trap. [35:51] Chad: Yes. No. [35:52] JD: Nope on that. [35:54] Justin: Yeah. [35:55] JD: You wait in line, you get the pizza. [35:57] Mark: It is a ritual. [35:57] JD: Yeah. [35:58] Justin: Because then I could just go, leave the line, go get drinks, go back online, spill my drink. Thank you for that. [36:05] JD: Yeah. And check out our Instagram feed. Mark spilled all over himself. Or dope. Kush, you seem like a conservative man to me. A good father. Tuck in your shirt wearing collar. You know, respectable things. [36:22] Chad: Wearing a collar. [36:23] JD: How do you think about this? This place? Las Vegas as a whole. I see some scantily dressed people of both sexes walking around. There's a lot of naughtiness happening. Are you. Nope. Or dope on Vegas as a thing? [36:38] Speaker E: Alan from Hangover said it best. I guess that's why they call it Sin City. I am absolutely nope on Las Vegas. [36:46] JD: Nope. Nope against it. Sacrilege. [36:49] Speaker E: It's just. [36:50] JD: Everyone's going to hell. [36:52] Speaker E: No, I didn't. No. I just. It's just not my thing. These are fun, but I don't. I would never come here for a family vacation or whatever. [37:00] Chad: Yeah. [37:02] JD: Mark, he strike me as a dirty person. [37:07] Speaker E: In what way? [37:07] JD: No, per. Dope on Vegas. Dirty little scummy. [37:12] Justin: I'm not typical, like Vegas goer, like, because I don't gamble a ton. I don't go to like the clubs and all that, but I'm. [37:18] Speaker E: I'm a Raider fan. [37:19] Justin: So I'm a. I'm a dope for sure. Because it's just a place like you go. There's lights, there's noise, there's crazy people, there's fun people. There's just. It's fun and there's a lot of, like these. This stuff that makes you drunk. It's great. [37:34] JD: Chad, you're a dichotomy. I know this. There's two sides to you. [37:38] Chad: Hey, you get choice when you're here. You want to walk the strip during the day, when none of that stuff is happening, go for it. Take the kids to Excalibur and let them play in the, you know, the carnival style game. I'm in now. You stay out at night, things are going to get crazy and you're going [37:53] JD: to see some things if you're out late night. I'm 100% dope. [37:56] Mark: It's great. [37:56] Chad: You make your own decisions. [37:58] JD: Justin, I feel like you like it here. [38:00] Mark: You know, Vegas is what you make it, jd. And, yeah, we're here for a conference, but that's the good part about it. And we get to hang with all our friends and stay out way too late eating secret pizza. [38:14] Chad: I'm Justin's dope for sure. [38:15] JD: All right, the last one gets a little dicey. Hopefully Kush doesn't get mad at me. [38:20] Chad: Oh, oh. [38:22] JD: You know, you're on the old Instagram. You know for sure it's not happening if it's not on the gram. But instead of posting pictures of your salad, you know, or at the. The. Com. The. [38:35] Chad: Wait, wait, wait. Does Kush do this? [38:37] JD: No. Political posts on Instagram. You know, to you, Kush, yay or nay? No, for dope. Political posts. [38:47] Speaker E: Dope. Absolutely. Better say it's my own. It's my own thing. It's my thing. You know what? [38:52] Justin: If you don't ask, you. [38:53] Speaker E: You make. [38:54] JD: Obviously don't create these yourself in Photoshop or Canva. You find them and repost them. Like, how does this. [39:00] Speaker E: So there's a couple of different things. Sometimes I'll find a picture on another social media platform, or if I do a Facebook post and I do it with the background, I'll just do a screenshot and then post that on Instagram. Because you can't do the colorful things on Instagram. So some of them are I cut and paste. Other ones I create myself. [39:17] JD: Zucks. Or who's the Twitter guy? Or you're not. We'll just stick with Zucks. Have they come to you and. And. And what do you call it? [39:29] Speaker E: Absolutely. I'm in Facebook jail right now. As a matter of fact, I'm in Facebook jail for posting something a year ago that I found on Facebook. [39:37] Mark: Better be careful. PayPal is now finding people 25. If they. If they find something that is. They don't. Like you said, it's in there. [39:47] Chad: How can they find a post on [39:50] JD: Instagram here and in. [39:52] Mark: This is tough for me. The stuff. Mike posts. That makes me laugh. Sometimes they do, but not my thing. You know, I try to stay kind of Switzerland in that stuff. [40:02] JD: Okay. [40:02] Mark: Give them this world. [40:03] JD: Chad, how do you feel about this dope? [40:05] Chad: It's your. It's your forum. If you want to say it, doesn't mean I have to spend time on it. Yeah, Say what you want to say. [40:10] Mark: Yeah. Hey, guess what? If you don't want to see it, just move on. [40:13] Chad: Or defriend Kush. Like I do. Not kidding, buddy. [40:17] JD: It's come to my attention, you little liberal, left leaning son of a. That you have unfollowed. [40:25] Justin: I'm not even sure what that means. [40:26] JD: You've unfollowed on Instagram. [40:28] Speaker E: Yeah. [40:29] Justin: 100. [40:30] Speaker E: Cool. [40:30] Chad: My joke was real. [40:33] JD: Well, I think they're phenomenal and they're one of my best. [40:37] Justin: My answer to that is the same. What we've all said is like, yeah, you can do whatever you want. I don't know. I don't give a. Do I want to see that? [40:47] Mark: No. [40:48] Justin: It's like my brother, but it's not pointed at Kevin. It's just Kevin Justin did it. [40:54] Chad: I'd be like, scroll by. [40:56] Justin: Like, you just, you just move on. [40:58] JD: You don't want it there. [40:58] Justin: I don't give. [40:59] JD: Want it somewhere else. I just want to see stupid. But you're on, you're on Instagram for pictures of cats and Chihuahuas and people falling and hurting themselves, which. Fair enough, fair enough. Okay. But I, I, I've said this on the show many times, haven't I? Give Kush a follow on Instagram. [41:17] Chad: Oh, it's hilarious. It's so good. [41:20] Mark: I mean, when I say I do enjoy your post. [41:23] Chad: Okay. [41:24] JD: It's been fun. People are eating their lunch. We're gonna wrap it up. Kush, as always, absolutely awesome. Love you being part of the crew. It's great to have you. [41:35] Justin: This has been an honor. [41:35] Speaker E: It really has. [41:36] JD: Sitting on the couch, which isn't. [41:38] Justin: So you say you don't drink. Like you occasionally have a drink. [41:43] Chad: Somebody as witty as you are. [41:44] Speaker E: This is the funny thing is I, I'm drinking this. I still have about three quarters left. I just don't, I don't like beer. Even when I was in the military, I never drank. [41:52] Justin: But what I'm saying, I'm giving you kudos because there are people that come on the show and that just don't drink. And you took it like you, you did again. [42:01] JD: Thank you. [42:01] Speaker E: That funny part about that is about my drinking is like, I can't. I don't even like Coors Light. But you could take that water jug over there and fill it with Fireball and I would drink the whole thing. [42:11] Mark: We gotta do some more research. [42:13] Speaker E: I would have three of these on a fireball. [42:16] JD: I'll make you one promise. [42:17] Speaker E: It's crazy, it's weird. [42:18] JD: But you win Chat Bar Champion again. I will send you so much, you'll lose your shit. Okay, we got. We're here in Vegas at the wealth at Work conference at the Paris Hotel. Let's see, we've got Jeannie Sutton, formerly known as Jeannie Fisher. Hashtag do it for me. Do the house. Hashtag, 401k, lady. She will be on the show later today at 2:45. [42:48] Justin: We have another show today. [42:49] JD: Yeah, yeah. And then tomorrow we will have the distinguished gentleman of 401K, Jeffrey Atchison. He's been wearing a sporty little shirt today, so hopefully he's coming fashion forward tomorrow. And that'll be at 1:10, just after lunch. So tune in. And it's been another fun show. We'll continue day drinking. Thanks for tuning in. We are the retireholics. We are changing the retirement plan industry. I don't even know if we're really doing that, but no. Cheers. One lukewarm Coors Light at a time. Thank you.