Recordkeeper Market Shift: 8-Year Data & Fee Compression

[0:01] JD: We would lose 77% of our audience. [0:05] Chad: Yeah, you can't. You can't tell that. Say the numbers out loud of attendees. Because I get paid to drop like sponsors names during the show. And we tell them we have much more people here. [0:16] Justin: My bad. [0:17] Mark: The thing you got to remember is asking people to join every Thursday, unlikely asking people to watch on their own survey. [0:30] Chad: The new intro is so dramatic. [0:33] JD: I really enjoy the fact that Chad just kept talking. [0:39] Mark: There's your intro. [1:20] Chad: Hey, what's up, everybody? Thanks for tuning in to Retireaholics especially. Thanks. Because I feel like the last three out of the four shows have been total canners. Chad's was the only good one, apparently. Everyone told me Chad did a great job. [1:36] JD: Time out, Kate. [1:37] Chad: Chat. I know. [1:37] JD: Everybody. [1:38] Mark: My gosh, Kate, everybody. [1:41] Chad: Your rookie, rookie move. Hello, everyone. It's been a while since we've performed a song, so Kate's a special guest. She's a friend of the show. She's a solid advisor. So, you know, know, it made sense that I would sit down and put pen to paper and write a little tune. It's acapella. No music needed. So here we go. It's called. It's titled Hillbilly Kate. There. There once was a girl and her name was Kate. She lived on a ranch in a hillbilly state. She has all kinds of cows, pigs and horses too. She can drive a tractor better than you. I bet you didn't know that you can farm in 401k. But hillbilly Kate, well, she can show the way you pick your funds like you pick a new cow. Fiduciary review meetings while riding on a plow. Hillbilly Kate is a cowgirl for sure and at the same time a financial entrepreneur. She can put the horses in their proper stalls and if you're a bull, she can cut off your ball. [3:13] Justin: You don't save those only for bulls. [3:15] Chad: I don't know. I googled it. It said that you cut off Justin. [3:21] Mark: That was good. [3:22] Chad: Judy, why don't you intro our guest formally and you out there in the audience, you know what to do. You're gonna rate Justin on 0 to 10. But remember, it's important because his job's on the line, so. [3:34] JD: Oh, that's right. 5. [3:37] Kate Clark: So I can get like a 4 today and still be employed. [3:39] Chad: Yeah, sure. The average. You're right. You're right. [3:41] JD: Anyways, yeah, I got some questions about that. [3:45] Kate Clark: Okay. Anyways, this natty, light loving, deep sea fishing, cow whispering, beloved friend of the Holluks is back for what should be her third guest appearance on the show. But JD Screwed that one up in Vegas. I have a feeling this one's a makeup for it. She's at the top of her game and one of the best in the business. In fact, she's so good that earlier today, I received a text from a fellow chat bar member that read, boy, I wasn't planning on showing up to the show tonight because I'm drying out, but Katie is a draw, and I just have to jump in. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Ms. Kate Clark back to the show. [4:17] Justin: Thank you. [4:19] Chad: Good job, Justin. Good job. You know what I love about that? I love that someone out there is considering whether or not they're gonna come watch the show on Thursday night, and they feel like they have to drink to watch the show. That warms my heart, because that's the way it should be. Like, you should have to get plastered and watch the show. Well done. We're gonna play some games today. Kate. I'm sure you're familiar with these. Acro sin starts now, so no initialisms or acronyms or you must drink from your penalty drink. I've got some good old Malort right here out of the big bottle. So I'll be playing along with you all. Ooh, vodka. Nice. Chat bar champion. Pay attention to the chat bar. You'll be voting someone into the finals. And then you out there in the audience, you will vote for the winner. Great. Greenfield. Sue from Lasso. Actually, sue wrote me and said, don't send me anything. I'm like, okay. She wants to give to charity. Greg won't tell me if he's at home or not, and Mrs. Brandrup won't respond to my email or my. My LinkedIn message. So we're pushing those food. Greg's at home. Well, respond to me, Greg. So we'll get you your stuff. And then don't forget, next month, we're going to be doing a little charity thing with the chatbot champion. We're gonna play some other games. You can all out there look forward to a little wheel of ice in a bit drunk stock tips, and maybe a very quick other game that will involve Cape beer. The episode. The beer of the episode is Natty Light. And I went out on the Internet and found some fun facts about Natty Light that I can share with you all today. Okay. Did you know that it was the Miller brewing company in 1975 that launched Miller Light? The first light beer, a 96 calorie beer? And so Anheuser Busch had to Get. [6:20] JD: There's no calories in beer. [6:24] Chad: Anheuser Busch had to get in the game. They didn't create Bud Light. No, they created Natty Light first. It was their first release of a light beer. At the time, it was 97 calories. Today it comes in at a. At a slim 95 calories. Natty Light's got many nicknames, Natty Light being one of them. Some people just call it Natty. I've also heard that it's lovingly referred to as Shore Champagne, which. And then had some less adoring names, although my son would take offense to this. Fratty Light. And I guess this has to do with the taste. Flatty Light are some of the nicknames. But with that said, after 40 years, Natty is still one of America's favorite beers. It was the 8th best selling beer in America in 2018 with 6.7 million barrels. Soldiers. See. Do you know it was the first beer in outer space? Yes, it was. Its flavor can be polarizing. It has. If you go to ratebeer.com Natty Light is in first place right now as the worst tasting beer in the world. But at the same time. [7:42] Mark: Oh, come on. That's the stuff Mark's bought from. Like Trader Joe's is so much worse. [7:49] Chad: But at the same time, it won the prestigious World beer cup in 2008 and got a bronze, bronze model. It got a bronze medal. So the best American style light lager. And then lastly, Natty cans can fight crime, apparently in Florida. Why do these things always happen in Florida? A man was trying to burglarize a liquor store and. And a local hero picked up four cans of Natty ice and threw it at the motherfucker, and the guy fled on foot. So there you go. [8:25] Justin: Hey, Mark, can you hold your can up again? I didn't get a good look at it. [8:30] Kate Clark: Oh, [8:33] Mark: oh, it's a new. It's a seasonal. [8:37] Chad: The. [8:37] Justin: The limited edition. [8:39] JD: Yeah, it's there. It's their special beer for the holidays. They're using different can colors and things now just to a little retro feel. [8:49] Kate Clark: Yeah, speaking of limited edition, when I was buying this one, there was a one called Daddy. What's the difference? [8:57] Mark: Daddy. [8:57] Kate Clark: Daddy. When I was. [8:58] Mark: You asked that of Kate. Like she's supposed to know. She's the national ambassador for Natty Light. Right. [9:05] Chad: Are we giving it robes, Kate? How many. How many robes? Out of five robes, would you give it. Oh, Natty Light. Five robes. Five robes for Natty Light. It's phenomenal. [9:18] Justin: I gave it my go to beer. [9:22] Chad: Boom. Natty lights. Okay, let's got some things to talk about. Let's go to headlines. Let's go to headlines, shall we? You boys have got these headlines, so I'm assuming you did lots of research. The first one comes from. [9:43] JD: Didn't even read your email. [9:45] Chad: Planet Visor magazine and it is titled Record. This is a long title by the way. They need help from like Nevin and John Sullivan over there at Plan Advisor. Record keeper. Consolidation leads to drop in proprietary product share opening door for asset managers. Chad, I know you read this sucker. I did. You want to give us a little kickoff on it? [10:09] Mark: Sure, but I have a different spin on it probably than you were thinking, at least when I first came out of it, which is they said in that article what I'm going to go down and look. 450, right? No, 400 record keepers down to just over 150 in the past decade. And obviously when you have that kind of consolidation, most of them are small, but we've seen groups like Mass and others, some bigger ones, be pushed into this. And my first takeaway, JD the first thing that came to my mind when they thought or stated the percentage of assets that are sitting in proprietary for these record keepers and how they have gone down. Sorry, go ahead and state. [10:45] Chad: No, but state that for everyone. I mean that that was the premise of the article. Right? [10:49] Mark: Is the premise is that that currently with the consolidation and when, when you look at the proprietary holdings for the different record keepers that, that are heavy players in this space, the percentage of the sitting in a proprietary holding has [11:04] Chad: gone down, which would be, which would be counterintuitive. You would think that if these, these record keepers are purchasing other record keepers, what a great opportunity to shove those into their own funds when they come over. [11:17] Mark: Well, so that's the different spin. But let me give the stat then as you continue to set the stage. 14 record keepers that also have asset managers or asset management divisions and within the last decade of the proprietary holding, high was 45.7% of those folks, the assets under management at those record keepers, the high was 45% in 2009. 2009 and then in 2020 it was 24.8%. Now what's happened within that time period? We've seen fee disclosure take force, we've seen a lot of pressure, we've seen holdings. [11:53] Chad: This is what I was going to [11:54] Mark: say, so I'll tee that up for you. But let me make my statement first. I wrote an advisor and I sent this article because I thought it was relevant for him. And I said I would really like to see the statistic on. Because they make the point in this, on the acquired record keepers coming over and that being the catalyst that's led the percentage to drop. Yeah, right. If you bring on 30,000 plans, well, it's going to take your proprietary. [12:19] Chad: Because you don't. [12:20] Mark: Because you don't have. [12:21] Chad: Swap them. [12:21] Mark: Yeah, you don't swap them. Now what I said is I'd like to see of those 30,000 plans that came over, how many of them end up having proprietary funds within a three year period? Because I would imagine if they ran the statistic again after we go through this merger and acquisition phase that we've been in for the last few years. [12:39] Chad: Oh, you want to drill down. [12:40] Mark: See it go back up. [12:41] Chad: You want to drill down specifically. But I thought this graph should tell you that it should show you that in omnibus like that. [12:48] Mark: And I'm saying that we've been in this merger and acquisition phase during this stretch. So it makes sense that in omnibus it's coming down. I'm saying let's see the next five years if we stop having these acquisitions. [13:00] Chad: Here's what I thought and then Kate's thoughts on proprietary. Proprietary funds here, however you want to share it, Kate. But when I read this I was like, I kind of was just like, no, duh. Like I'm like, so what you're telling me is there are less proprietary funds and record keeping solutions, which to me that's just been the trend. So if I look at this, there it is not as popular anymore. Advisors are smarter, clients are smarter, they're like you said, there's trans. More transparency, there's more products out there that are. It's not like it was 10 years ago, 15 years ago, and you don't see proprietary funds as much. They're not a thing anymore in their. I don't get all this consolidation around it, but I mean, tell me I'm wrong. Kate, do you feel like. [13:41] Justin: I think you're exactly right. I think the landscape has changed and you've got that with increase in transparency, fee compression, you know, naturally that's going to minimize that exposure to proprietary business overall, that it's not just true in the record keeper space, it's true across the board. [14:00] Chad: There's lawsuits about that kind of stuff this article mentions. Yeah, yeah. It's a positive by the way, just reading articles a good thing. [14:10] Mark: I mean, tell me this though, JD in the, in the life cycle, like if someone sat me down and said, chad, talk to me about the investment platform life cycle that you've seen in my short career, I would tell you that when I first started, it was heavy proprietary. Almost, almost, almost 70, 80% of a core lineup is going to be proprietary. With the major players that have an [14:30] Chad: asset, sometimes you didn't have a choice. Yeah. [14:33] Mark: And then we saw, we saw the whole shelf space game go away. [14:37] JD: Right. [14:37] Mark: And we saw true transparency and fee disclosure start to bring down heavily. That phase, that, that, that, that proprietary holding phase. And then what we saw was empower come out two years ago and go, I don't care. I'm going back to shelf space. Here comes select. And we're going to get these different asset managers to pay us to use their funds on our platform. And in tune, we've seen others then come, come right back and say, hey, if they're getting away with this, what we were all doing 15 years ago, yeah, then we're going to start pushing proprietary again. [15:11] Chad: You see people in the chat talk about race to zero. And so through this transparency and through these, these new, this new world where fees are going down and down and down, when, if you're a record keeper, you're sitting around going, okay, well, what can we do? And one of your options is, well, let's see if we can slide some more proprietary funds in there. But this graph's telling us that that's, that's not, Can I tell you. [15:33] Mark: Oh, it's flattening, though. Look at the gap. I mean, it dropped 8%. [15:37] Chad: Can I give you. [15:38] Mark: Not much after that. [15:39] Chad: Can I give you two names that don't play by this game? It's in the article. Vanguard is stuffed full with proprietary funds, and so is Fidelity, and, and so is American funds, for obvious reasons. So those are three large vendors that still play heavily in terms of using their own funds. Am I wrong? [16:06] Mark: Absolutely. [16:07] Chad: Right. Yeah. Thank you. Okay, next headline. Unless anyone has more to say about [16:13] Mark: proprietary, I've got a lot to say on that one. We sat. J.D. let me give you one, one quick thing on that. We sat with a record keeper today in a sales meeting with the team. They reached out, they wanted to do a product update with us. I won't say the name, but I, I asked three quarters of the way through. I said, hey, I just want to confirm because I do genuinely care about our partners. And I said, I want to make sure I understand your compensation is derived 100% through assets that hit your proprietary funds. Right? And they said, 100% doesn't matter. Number of plans, doesn't matter how big the plan is, they're con. These, these folks are compensated on the holdings of their asset management division and their product. That's. That's saying a lot when your 401k wholesalers are not compensated on the 401k side. They're compensated on the asset management. [17:05] Chad: Yeah, well, it's a different way to do it and we'll see. Like it, it, like you said, it's it. We might say it's trending downwards, but there's still a ton of plans out there that you come across that have proprietary target day funds as an option, let alone. [17:20] Mark: I think it's trending the opposite. I really. [17:22] Chad: Do you think it's going to go up more now? [17:25] Mark: 100% I do, sure. [17:27] Chad: Well, some of those lawsuits might help fuel that direction if, if they come out being okay for the record keepers and, or they all settle anyways. We never figure out who won or lost those things back to the old Department of Labor. And for us all, they're still going tit for tat on their little lawsuit, which is a lot of fun to watch from the sidelines. So to give everyone some context, government comes out with, you've all heard this. Government comes out with their little bulletin. It says, hey, you should steer clear of these, these cryptos and 401k for all these different reasons. They bulleted out like nine different reasons. For us all is a record keeper who was really building a lot of their brand around having crypto in your 401k. So they sue the Department of Labor. The Department of Labor then comes back with a retort to, I think to, to, to kick it out of court. What's, what's the fancy term for that? To, you know, dismiss it, dismiss the case. And, and they, and they, they kind of step in it a little bit. They say like, look, nothing we said was a regulation or a law. We didn't say that we would come after you for this. There was no specifics about it being a penalty or that you could or couldn't do it. So they kind of went that way. And then the, for us all attorn, oh, we're going to take your own words now and push them back on you. And they filed again saying, look, let's kick this, we agree, let's dismiss this whole thing, let's get it out of court. But we want the court to take what, what the Department of Labor just said and put it in writing for us. Because they're saying, hey, they're not going to Enforce this. They didn't make any real rules. Like basically saying what they wrote doesn't mean shit is what for us all wanted the court to do. And now the Department of Labor is coming back. It's a great article. You all should read it@plan sponsor.com and they're saying no, you. The court doesn't. That's not verbatim. I made that one up. The court doesn't have that power and authority to, to say that. And so you can't, you can't use our words. But we agree with you. For us all, we should dismiss this case and move on. And it's a very little petty. Kind of like I feel like I'm watching like Beverly Hills Housewives or something. It's really exciting to watch the back and forth. [19:47] JD: Really not. It's not. It's not that exciting. [19:50] Chad: It is. It's cool. Very cool. So that's just your update on that dol hitting back. [19:56] JD: Oh, there's one. Finally. [19:58] Mark: Say, Greg's been asking, [20:03] Chad: do you think. [20:03] JD: Don't worry, chad. That's for JD's picture now, not you. [20:07] Mark: I have the chat bar blocking. I didn't see it. Sorry. [20:10] Chad: Do you think this. [20:11] JD: You'll see it next time. Just say an acronym, dude. [20:15] Mark: Just say it so I can show [20:15] JD: Chad what it looks like. [20:17] Chad: Oh, I'm about to. Do you think this FTX thing. Impacts your stuff in any way? Like when you're For Us all or Fidelity working on this and then this whole thing I just mentioned goes down over the last week, week and a half, Is that kind of giving them pause or screwing them up in some way? Come on. You're a pro crypto guy, Chad. I know you're not super proud 401k but. [20:46] Mark: Well, yes, absolutely. This has to give pause because you have a major institution crashing that, that was a, a massive player in this space. I mean, think about it. In any other industry, you take one of the largest providers in that space, whether it be providing hamburgers and they crash. Hell yeah. It's going to cause pause. Now you see Ed and you see others saying there's no space for crypto in, in retirement. I, I think that if you're trying to use the FTX side of things and that we don't know if this [21:22] JD: is actually an acronym [21:25] Kate Clark: stands for. [21:26] Mark: Right. [21:26] JD: I mean, yeah, so somebody called it out. So I was like, I don't know if I'm gonna push the button yet. [21:31] Mark: You can't. You can't connect though. Oh, I said I'm drinking Malort. You can't connect those two dots. J.D. and I got, I honestly, I got heat from people. I got heated from people who. Heat from people who wrote and said, oh, how you. I'm assuming you bought from them as well. And I'm like, nope, I used Coinbase and then I pulled it all on cold storage. I'm in no exchange at all. [21:55] Chad: Not your keys, not your coin. Right. Or whatever. What's it called? What do they say? No, I'm gonna flip the script on that a little bit. You could say that because of this debacle that Bitcoin and 401K custody by fidelity might be a great place to do this. It's a safe place you don't have to worry about. Well, it's like saying. [22:21] JD: I think debacle is a bit of a understatement, by the way. [22:24] Chad: Right. More than a DevOps. But is that, is that crazy what I just said? Did you hear it? [22:30] Mark: Because crazy. [22:31] Justin: This is, this is what is starting the avalanche now. You're going to have regulation come in and the whole point, the whole appeal behind crypto was because of deregulation and this idea that the government wasn't going to get their cut. News flash. Name me a time when the US government hasn't gotten their cut on something. [22:50] Mark: I would disagree. I would disagree with the United States. [22:53] JD: Kate. [22:54] Chad: United States is you gotta drink your vodka. [22:57] JD: Hey, Justin, if you, if you and I had a kid, that's what he would look like up there. Just saying. [23:03] Justin: No, where's the picture? Where's the picture I showed you? [23:07] Chad: I think you're about to tell her. The decentralized part is it was a. Is a big part of cryptocurrency for sure. [23:15] Mark: Absolutely. [23:15] Chad: But we do, we all understand all these people chiming in on LinkedIn too. And here in the chat bar, when it's in your 401k, it's not going to be decentralized, dummy. It's going to be custody and kept and by an institution. That's. It's not going to be the wild wild west when it's in a 401k. And. And by the way, the fact that bitcoin Tony put on there is down is 16,000 and something. And do you still like it? I think it's pretty impressive that bitcoin has held strong amidst all this. I'll drink for it. Ftx, like there's a lot of positives and the fact that now it's going to force regulation to get involved. I don't think this is the death of crypto, everybody. That's a naive perspective. This could be the fuel to the fire of this motherfucker and send it to the moon. [24:05] Justin: I don't think it's going to be the death of it, but I don't think it has any place in a, in a retirement plan. If you want to do it, that's fine, but have it separate from those assets. [24:15] Chad: You're so boring. So. [24:16] Justin: I know. [24:18] JD: Just, it's just, it's pretty simple. It's, it's added skepticism. That's all it is. The skeptics are going to take this and leverage it. That's fine. It's still going to hang around. It's not gone like that. That's a naive thing to think and say. [24:33] Chad: I don't. I could see why people honkage nailed it. [24:36] Mark: We're still in an infancy stage here with the crypto. Like blockchain has been around for some time. The technology is there. It's, it's, it's solvent. But we're still in its infancy and trying to shove it into the largest financial system that exists in the retirement plan space in the US we're being naive. If we think we can do that with ease. [24:59] Chad: It's premature. [25:00] Mark: It needs to be state. It needs to be more stable, Chad. For what? [25:04] Kate Clark: United States? [25:07] Chad: I, you know, I said it before, I'll say it again. [25:09] Mark: Not say that. [25:11] Chad: You're allowed. You're allowed. [25:13] JD: If anyone knows, it's, it's Justin. [25:16] Chad: Okay, Chad, sometimes I feel like JD [25:20] JD: I'm intentionally trying to keep you from [25:21] Mark: making a point here. [25:22] JD: We're done. [25:24] Chad: Game gets, gets in the way of the actual show. You. You're allowed in a 401k to invest in your self directed brokerage account and buy peloton and have it lose 90% of its value. You're allowed to invest in all kinds of, of penny stocks in your 401k. Why is this any different? It's been my point. [25:47] Kate Clark: Do that yourself. And it's not accessible to everybody who doesn't know how to invest or does. [25:52] Chad: But it will be. We're not. We're talking about in a 401k. [25:55] JD: You know why that is? JD if I'm being honest, you know why that is? [25:59] Kate Clark: Everybody is. [26:00] JD: Because all the other things that you talked about. Oh, I invest in peloton. Well, I can touch a peloton. I can feel a peloton. Oh, I invest in penny stocks. I could, I could see what they are. You're investing in. Make believe Coins. And that doesn't exist. It's in fine air. It's fake. It's not even real. Nobody knows what it is. If you think you're an expert, you're not, because nobody knows what it is. So stop acting like an expert. All of us, you guys included, knock it off. Let's move on. [26:30] Chad: True. You're wrong. [26:32] Justin: Here's probably. [26:33] Chad: I'm not wrong, J.D. you're not an expert. Dude, I'm as much an expert as anybody else. [26:39] Mark: Exactly. [26:40] JD: And if that's the section we're going [26:42] Chad: off of, guess what, Mark? We pontificate on these types of things in the financial services industry. We talk about investment blocked. [26:49] Mark: You're the one who. [26:56] Justin: This unpopular opinion. [26:57] JD: Did the blockchain just block me? [26:59] Justin: Outside brokerage windows should be allowed in 401k plans. [27:05] Chad: Yeah, you don't. You don't believe that too? Sure, that's a decent argument. I get it. But it's allowed, so I just feel like it's the same thing. [27:12] Mark: I hate to hear that. As a blanket statement. I get your point, Kate, but as a blanket statement, you can't truly believe that. [27:19] Justin: I do truly believe it. I mean, I'm so an advisor. Shop my own plan. [27:25] Mark: Yeah, that's what I mean. [27:26] Justin: It's a little bit different, I think, for the. [27:29] Chad: The general population. [27:30] Justin: Yeah, exactly. I think it should be a managed lineup and that's it. But why stocks then work? Either open up a separate brokerage account or work with an advisor to do it. [27:45] Chad: But why can't you have a program for the masses for that 100 person employer that says, look, here's a core menu of funds that we've. We've went through that and looked at and vetted for you through with our financial advisor. Here's some target date funds that we've done the same. And maybe there's some specialty asset classes on that core menu that don't fit the normal one. And then for any of you out there that would like to supplement your portfolio, that's his partner or whatever, his chick on the. Oh, we won't even get into that. And then. Actually, we'll get into it right before the. [28:23] Mark: No, Come on. [28:25] JD: Nope. [28:25] Mark: Not go. [28:26] JD: Not going there. [28:26] Chad: Ah, you derailed me. My point was. [28:28] Mark: Good. Good. Yeah. [28:32] Chad: All right, let me leave you with this. No, that check. [28:35] JD: No, we're done. We're done. [28:37] Chad: He. He has, like, sexual relations with like, eight people that are all under his company's thing. Like there. There's a name for it. [28:45] Mark: I. [28:45] Chad: Forget it. Yeah. Greg Gross. All right, let's spin the wheel of ice. Gross. [28:57] Mark: Kate, who you with? Oh, you waited too long. Oh, it's a Malort, by the way. [29:06] JD: I don't have Malort, so can you send me some? [29:09] Chad: Coincidentally, I have Malort. What does this mean? [29:14] Mark: Means you're supposed to do a Smirnoff Ice and drop your Malort. [29:18] Chad: I got it. I got it covered. [29:20] JD: So we do. We do the same thing, but just instead of makers, it's Malort now. [29:27] Chad: Yeah, it sounds like fun. Chad. The next topic, which you can take off with here, is about eight years ago on Retireholics episode three, we did the top nine record. [29:44] JD: Wait, number three ever? [29:47] Chad: Episode number three? Yeah. Yeah. [29:49] JD: Oh, when was that? What year was that? [29:51] Chad: It was eight years ago. [29:53] JD: Eight years ago? [29:54] Chad: Yeah. Yeah, we did a top. A top nine record keepers by total plans. And if you remember, I. I had a little visual prop. I had a board with like tape on it where I revealed them as we went up the list from nine to number one. And it was Chad's idea, everybody, that maybe we could revisit that list and see where they are today. Like how things have evolved. I'm going to drop my Malort into my Smirnoff. You want to give some more context on that chatter? [30:28] Mark: I'll tell you why it came about, Kate. You know, we've. We've hired a new team member who is crushing it. His name is Devin, and he's gone back and he's watching all of the Retireholics episodes. And then he comes to me with questions about him and some of the things he's asking. I'm like, this is so outdated, dude. It doesn't even exist anymore in our space. Like, let's talk about what it is now. But anyways, he brought this up and he goes, hey, there's some names on here I don't, I don't recognize. And you're talking the top 10 record keepers eight years ago by plan count, the top 10. Tell me first one that comes to your mind, Kate, that's no longer on that list. [31:08] Justin: Mass Mutual. [31:09] Mark: Yep. And that's what made me laugh when I. When I read this. I'm like, how many of these are not going to be relevant anymore? How many of them are not going to be in the same order? So, jd, I don't know if you have any graphic or you just want to run through them, but it was astonishing to me how much has changed in eight years, but really not. [31:27] Chad: All right, here we go. We're going to turn it into our. Let's do it first subject matter. And I'm going to bring over some visual. [31:33] JD: Look at that. [31:34] Chad: Those are always cool. [31:36] JD: Mark either some issues with this. [31:38] Chad: I got a board. [31:40] JD: We didn't practice any of this. [31:41] Chad: I got a board. See if we get this to work here. [31:45] JD: What's that picture? [31:46] Mark: Look at how young JD looks. [31:49] Chad: That's Marky the Riveter. [31:50] Mark: Marky the Riveter. [31:52] Chad: Just get normal hair. No robe. [31:54] Mark: There you go. [31:55] JD: No robe. Yeah. [31:56] Chad: Okay. So free robe. [31:57] Mark: All right. [31:58] Chad: It's actually a pretty sought after. All right. Magazine issue. I gotta watch the whole thing. [32:08] Mark: Are you requiring me? [32:10] Chad: This is the top nine. [32:18] Mark: All right. [32:19] Chad: When we did this, when we did this, number nine was Mass Mutual. Number eight was Nationwide, then it was American Funds, then a Census, then Voya, then Actuarial Deferral, I don't know. Then that payroll company, then Principal, then Hancock. And number one was paychecks. And at the time paychecks had 68,000 plans. MassMutual had 32,000. And that's what we were looking at as total plans. [32:52] Mark: Plan from Plan Sponsor magazine is what though? [32:55] Justin: MassMutual is the only one that's not there, if I heard you correct. [33:00] Chad: Yes. [33:00] Mark: The only one that no longer. That's been acquired. [33:03] Chad: But, but, but some have left that list. So some are no longer on that top list. And we can talk a bit about that. What I thought was interesting was if you look at their total plans now and you look at their total plans then, with the exception of the two payroll providers and with the exception of some acquisitions, I don't feel like they're winning a lot of business or. Excuse me, we can see their numbers of what they win because Plan Sponsor now has evolved this record keeping survey to, to also show you how many plans they won in a year in 2021. But those are interesting to look at. We could look at some of those today. But they also show you like under 10 million and above 100 million. And so there's a lot of different ways they kind of chop it up and look at it. But I looked at this and I'll give you an example. Nationwide, who was number nine on the list, had 39,000 plans in 2021. They fell to number 11 and they had 32,950 plans. So they have lost plans, net loss plans over the last eight years. It's the same thing you look at like. [34:20] Mark: Go ahead. I was just going to say let's, let's ask because I'd be curious to know, Mark have you said you didn't check JD's email? Hopefully you're being truthful. What do you think if. If paychecks back in 2015? I think that's when it was right. JD was 60,000 plans, 67,000 plans. Somewhere in that range, right? [34:42] Chad: Yeah. [34:42] Mark: What do you think they're at now? Knowing that Nationwide was flat. [34:46] Chad: Wow. [34:47] Mark: They went down. Well, they went down. [34:49] Chad: Take a guess Mark from. [34:51] JD: You said 67 and that was eight years ago. [34:56] Mark: Yep. Yeah. [35:00] JD: I'm gonna say north of. No, I'm not saying. I'm not gonna go down. I'm gonna say 111. No. [35:09] Chad: Why don't you take more time? [35:12] JD: 108, 000 and 22. [35:15] Chad: It's just over a hundred. It's a hundred and 137. But that's good. That's good. So I consider that growth if massive. If you look at Voya, I just, I stated that in the beginning. I said the payroll companies have been crushing it. And by the way, when you look at total plans sold in a year in the same study, it's always the payroll companies that are crushing it. [35:36] JD: But. [35:36] Mark: But the thing is, when you look at retention rates, why that is so surprising to me, jd, is they're losing so many plans as well. The difference is they're bringing on massive amounts of volume. [35:47] Chad: So we've always. [35:49] JD: Look at that wheel of ice. [35:51] Chad: We've always. [35:52] Kate Clark: Savers though, too. [35:53] Chad: We've always said that. We've always said that the payroll companies bring on a lot of plans, but they lose a lot of plans. Is that really true? Do we have facts to back that up? Because it's looking to me like a lot of these record keepers lose a lot of plans, like they're treading water to. To gain new ground. Voya, when we did that show, Voya and I would, I would claim Voya as a really, like, aggressive record keeper. Over the past eight years, Voya had 46,000 plans. Voya in 2021, came in at number six with 51,000 plans. It's been eight years and they've barely ticked up. Which tells me another fun experiment is go look at how many plans they sell each year. [36:41] Mark: And then that's what I was just [36:43] Chad: gonna say and start to back into how many plans they lose because they [36:46] Kate Clark: lose a lot of like, the true record keepers versus the payroll companies. [36:51] Chad: The difference again, is there a massive [36:53] Kate Clark: jump or is that kind of more in line with the rest of the record keepers? Like we're making. [36:59] Chad: To me, I feel like what's it called what how do you to me I feel like ADP and paychecks. [37:08] Mark: I'll drink Automatic data processing. [37:10] Chad: Automatic data processing. [37:11] JD: That's what it is. Don't tell them what it is. [37:15] Chad: They are is being successful. Justin and the others are not. They are adding. And the reason why they're adding is obvious. They have access to all these payroll clients and they, I get bombarded by them all the time with you know, or excuse me, like well, and they [37:31] Justin: sell a pipe dream. I mean I can't tell you the number of times I've been brought into a, a sold plan by somebody who works for a payroll company only to sit down with that business owner and go do do you realize what you've actually signed up for? You. You don't need a 401k. You needed a simple IRA or a step IRA. They're oversold more times than not and they're being sold by people who aren't even licensed. It drives. [38:03] Mark: And Kate, to further your point, Punkage mentioned in the chat bar that they're getting compensated only for for that individual sale. There's no retention, there's no growth, there's no and so and I have caught this a number of times with folks at those providers that will say hey, I know the plan is going to move. Honestly, I've had this. Can you make sure it stays for 90 days? If it stays for 90 days, I get paid and it doesn't get a clawback. So let it stay for 90 before you move it. [38:34] Chad: Well, I got news. I got news for you two haters. They're winning the game. Scoreboard. They're winning the game. [38:42] Mark: Well that's. So here's the thing that was so surprising to me in this J.D. if I could, if I could put my, my nerdy brain on for a second. If I see these record keepers that are relatively stagnant over an eight year period and all of us said to start off today's conversation about the, the acquisition and the asset managers that we have seen consolidation and we have seen compression in costs and fees and margins. If these record keepers are flat for 8 years and apparently not making money on the 401k then how are they continuing to invest in this space? [39:19] Justin: It's a loss leader. [39:21] Mark: That's what I was just going to say. It's the asset management. There's other components of it. It's float income, there's fixed income or there's fixed accounts and the spread on that like they're making money in so many other Ways that bringing in 2,000 plans when they were once bringing in 4,000 is just fine with them. Yes, the K margins are thinner but they're still making plenty of money. [39:41] Justin: Ask any advisor, ask any advisor that is in the wealth management space, would you rather have 100 million in assets that you manage individually and get charged get receive a fee for that or would you rather have a Plan client with 100 million in assets give me 100 million in individual wealth management clients all day long. [40:04] Chad: Sure, for sure, for a lot of reasons. One other name that wasn't on that list when you back in the day when we went through it was Empower wasn't there and they're there now. [40:16] Justin: Well, that's because Empower wasn't in power back then. [40:19] Chad: Well, no, they're great west but they didn't make the list for numbers. But now they're there. I thought you were going to say because of acquisition, which is true. So they've made the list and someone in the chat bar asked oh thanks Chad. For someone in the. For putting that in the chat bar. Someone asked about Guideline and by the way, you should all go to plansponsor.com you can sign up free to gain access to this and it's under their research tab and it's the record keeper survey. If you all don't, it's a lot of fun to look through Guideline. Has someone mentioned Guideline in the chat bar? Guideline has 24, 436 plans. That puts them at number eight for the below 10 million. If I look at guideline here in live time and I click on them in terms of where they land on the overall rankings for total plans, they are number 14. So they fall out of that. But yeah, they've. And maybe your point there in the chat bar, I forgot who said it is. They are coming along. So they're a new name that's starting the position. [41:25] Mark: Well, take things into consideration like JD we found out the total number of plans for Standard Transamerica T row was a surprising one to me. In terms of the total number of plans, they're all well below guideline. Trans is not trans. [41:40] Chad: Let me, let me have some fun with you. I'll start with Kate. The list for new plans sold in 2021. So top 10 of who sold the most plans. Chad, get ringed up for something. [41:55] Kate Clark: That's for Thomas Rowe Price Jr you [41:58] Chad: either go for try to your best. Who do you think sold the Most plans in 2021? [42:06] Justin: What'd you say? One of the payroll companies, number one [42:12] Chad: and two are Paychecks and Automatic Data Processing. Paychecks is number one Paycheck sold 20,000 plans in 2021. [42:21] Mark: Holy shit. [42:22] Chad: Yeah. Automatic Data Processing sold almost 18,080. Number three was a census and they sold 11,000. You know, it's cool if you watch the old video Chad from eight years ago, you talk about a census and you're like, I really think that. I'm surprised to see them on this list. I really didn't think they'd be here. It must be driven by their Vanguard product. They have so that if it gets. It's a fun little timeline. [42:52] Justin: JD do you want to know the secret to it? It's not that they're just seller salespeople. They are selling convenience. They're selling a bundle. [43:02] Chad: You think those three fit that mold? Those three fit that mold. [43:05] Justin: I think the top two fit that mold, yeah. [43:07] Chad: For sure. [43:08] Mark: We should get into that because that's valuable for the people listening. Selling convenience. I'll leave the bundle side out of it. Selling convenience is 100 what they are pitching 100 now. They have access, Kate. Don't forget that. They have access. [43:23] Chad: By the way, if you're a smart marketer, that's how you should sell 401k plans right now. That's what the payroll companies do. That's what the disruptors do. Go to every one of their websites. The guidelines, the betterments, the human interest, the whomever is the best wells. And it'll say 401k is made easy, simple. You know, that's, that's what they sell, right? Number four is American Funds with 7,000 Hancock. At number five was 6,000 Principal selling 4,000. Trans Am right behind them with 4,000 a little less. Empower sold 3,886, then Fidelity, then T Row. Those are the ones that sold the most plans in 2021. I, I find that interesting. [44:13] Justin: But there was a huge discrepancy between the top two and that third one. And it's all because of a convenience. It's the pitch is we'll do your payroll, we'll do your HR, we'll do your 401k. You never have to worry about. [44:31] Chad: It's also in everyone this as. As Ponkaj will say, no dud, J.D. it's also that they have. There are massive payroll access, access, access to all these companies that don't have a 401k or do have a 401k and they, they hit them on the regular with little 401k. Ads so. [44:50] Mark: Well, JD to, to further the point I tried to make earlier about the leaving. I just want to note that in eight years, Paychecks had the by far the largest jump. Right. It's 40,000 plans. You just said they sold 20,000 last year. [45:04] Chad: No. [45:05] Mark: So think about that. [45:06] Chad: Yeah, they're losing a lot. [45:07] Mark: They're losing a lot, everybody. [45:10] Chad: That's some, that's a really important fact is I think in this business there's a lot of musical chairs happening. There's. There's a lot of loss and gain. Loss and gain, loss and gain. You know, coverage gap aside. But so let me, let me make [45:25] Mark: one last point on the, the ease and the efficiency. And I'm going to you real quick. An email from a prospect that came back. I feel very confident that we don't lose often. When we do, I like to learn from what we. Why we lost. And so here's, here's the email from this, this prospect that tells us. [45:48] JD: Electronic mail, buddy. [45:49] Mark: Oh, come on. [45:53] JD: No, you said it twice. I'm sorry, what? [45:56] Kate Clark: I think our ruling on that one. [45:58] JD: Yeah, I want to check my rule. [46:01] Chad: Okay. [46:03] Mark: Yeah, chat bar can chime in because that's bs. That's bull crap. [46:06] JD: It's already in. [46:10] Mark: They said, they said, sorry. [46:14] Chad: Check Acro send. I'm gonna put that thing to bed, man. It interrupts the show. Go on, Chad. [46:20] JD: That's for talking about Ackerson. We have. [46:25] Mark: We're gonna take a half step transitioning from our simple individual retirement account, and we're going to go with guideline. The decision was influenced in part by guidelines baked in compatibility with Gusto. We believe that even though their service level will not match that of yours, their lower fees and integration with Gusto is why we're taking this, this step. And they go on to essentially say, we know we're not going to get as good a service, so when we incubate this, we'll be back. And it just made me realize. And so here's my fault. This is my point to the audience here. This plan, this specific situation with Gusto we were pitching with Transamerica was one of the providers in there. I could easily have been better at my job and talked through payroll integration. I could have chatted through 401k safe. And their ability to do the same tech in the middle and create that same relationship. There's so much to talk about in the 401k when you're, especially on a startup, when you're consulting that often, the efficiency and the ease that Kate's talking about gets pushed to the side. It can't. It can't anymore because they're hearing it from everywhere else. We have to focus on the ease when helping these people make decisions. [47:39] Chad: You're right. Or you can just say, it's easy, Chad. You don't have to focus on it. Just do what they're doing. They're lying. They're lying. It's not true. They have payroll. I've said this. People have heard me say this. So much so I apologize for saying it again. You ask every disruptor, what is, what are you doing different? What's new? What have you, what have you created? What have you invented? How are you the Uber of all this? What did you do? And they're like, payroll. Their number one answer is payroll integration. We have 360. Like Record Keeper's been doing that for 10 years. You dip like, that's not evolution. That's not anything new. But they sell it, Chad. They sell it. And that's where we. [48:18] Mark: And they already have the relationship and the access. That's what, that's the point of making there. With paychecks, with gusto, with all of these. They already have the relationship. [48:27] Chad: Well, I've said this before. We blew it with payroll. Like, we've been able to do this as an industry for a long time, but we failed at it. We tried. It didn't work. We gave up when, I mean, it didn't work. We couldn't drive sales the way we thought it would. These partnerships between payroll companies and record keepers and those shared files, and we gave up basically as an industry. And these new disruptors from Silicon Valley, these venture capital backed, private equity backed, $100 million investments, they have pushed hard on these payroll partnerships. And Tony asked who's Gusto? Gusto is responsible for guidelines, success in the 401k market. [49:07] Mark: 99%. Yeah. [49:09] Chad: So, hey, again, don't hate the player, hate the game, bro. They're winning by doing that and we blew it. Okay, we, maybe we just need to refocus on that like Chad said, and start to sell that same ease. I don't know about you, but when you know there's financial naughtiness happening in the naughtiness in two different ways with the guy from ftx. I'll drink. You know when markets are awry and you don't know what's going to go, they, they, there's talk of recession, you, you want to hold on to something like a lifesaver or, you know, so a lifeguard to come out and Save you. Well, you know who that lifeguard is. It's Rogue Guy, and it's Trunk Stock Tips. He's going to help you all make some money. Trunk stock tips. [50:07] Justin: Okay, one quick caveat. I do have some clients. Clients that are listening in. This is not financial advice. [50:21] JD: I give my own. My own disclaimers. [50:24] Chad: If you're watching the show, my people [50:27] JD: and you need advice, I mean, turn the show off right now. [50:33] Chad: Not true. Not true. Because let me back it up. [50:35] JD: That's amazing. [50:36] Mark: You are 100% wrong. [50:39] Chad: Rogue guy is a genius. I've told you guys before, some people are born to do certain things. And Robe Guy was born to pick investments, to pick stocks. He told you to buy Netflix at 199. It's now 295. That's a 48 gain. And people, as I go through these, I want you to know times have been tough. [51:04] Mark: Things have all been in the last three months. [51:06] Chad: The markets have been volatile. And Mark does no wrong. He told you to buy Apple at 142. It's up. It's at 150. That's a 6% gain. He told you by Twitter at 43. And I think when he told you to buy it, he told you because Elon's gonna take that over. It was pre Elon. And I know you feel like Twitter's had some bad news, right? But you forget, it closed out. It's no longer a public stock, so it forever will be at 150. Excuse me, at 53.70. Mark told you to buy it when it was at 43. That's a 24 gain that he. And that's locked in for you now because Twitter is no longer a traded stock. Home depot, it was 269. Rogue guy said buy it. It's 311 now, people. I mean, do I go on peloton? He doesn't always say bye. He said sell. Pelotons down. Layered superfoods. He said sell. If you didn't listen to Mark, that stock's down 26% since he told you to sell it. Bird. And he loves Bird. He loves going around those scooters. He told you to sell it. It's down 14 lots. [52:22] Mark: What do we got tonight, J.D. i want to know. I want to know what I'm buying. [52:25] Chad: Well, I want to. For full disclosure, he has missed one. So those are eight picks and he's missed one. So he's seven for eight. [52:33] Kate Clark: He's not bad. [52:34] Chad: He said buy Tesla, and Tesla has been. Is getting hurt. But Mark, I'm assuming your vision probably had a longer time duration or something. Who knows? I mean, we don't know, right? It's not a. It's not a scientist. [52:50] JD: Tesla is one you just hang on to forever. Yeah. [52:53] Chad: Good, good, good. Well, I, on my way to the office, I drive my truck and I like to pick up some coffee along the way. And I pull that into a line that's like 36 cars all lined up just so I can get my Starbucks coffee. [53:12] JD: Your reusable red cup. Did you go on the red cup day? Reusable day? [53:16] Justin: No. [53:17] Mark: Okay. [53:18] Chad: I think Starbucks has not been on a bit of a tear recently. I'd have to pull it up. And I know you don't care about any of these things. [53:24] JD: No, don't give a. Don't even tell me this isn't easy. This is so easy. [53:30] Chad: I've given you a lot of stocks that have beaten down. This one I think has been doing pretty well. But Starbucks, buddy, the ticker is sbux. I'll drink for that. [53:41] JD: No. [53:42] Chad: And what do you say, Mark? What do you say? [53:45] JD: Just buy it. [53:46] Chad: That's it. I need some. Come on, give me some entertainment value here. [53:50] JD: Well, all I can say is if you. If you know me, which I know Chad and Justin, know me very well, is I drink a lot of coffee. So a lot of coffee. Like too much coffee. There's a Starbucks literally across the street from my house. [54:07] Mark: And one on every quarter. [54:10] JD: Yeah, I mean, now I will say this. I have seen in recent history, over the past couple years, a few locally have closed, which. Which really surprised me. I was like, what? Why is that? [54:24] Mark: Maybe. [54:25] JD: Maybe they've just realized there's far too many in this certain area, so we're going to scale back. So I think they're making some smart decisions. Now, let's be honest, all of you, like hardcore coffee drinkers who are going to say, oh, it's the worst coffee. I didn't say it was great coffee. They provide a hot drink and a cold drink everywhere when you need one. And guess what? I always want one. I'm always gonna buy one. Their damn mobile app makes it and [54:54] Mark: they give you free ones like every. [54:55] JD: And they get the stars and all the rewards and the free stuff and you can game the system on what? I mean, they're gonna. That they're just gonna take off. I saw a couple of Pete's Coffees closed recently. Guess what? Starbucks is probably gonna move into those stores and take off. So just keep buying it. [55:14] Chad: Pete's Coffee Sucks. You had me at hello. Yeah. [55:18] JD: Why do I keep getting blurred? [55:20] Chad: I like this mark. This stock has been on a tear. Brandon threw up the one day, but the six month. It's, it's, it's up, man. It's up, up, up. And you're saying I don't care. It's been up 36%. [55:33] Mark: It's, it's. Coffee is recession proof. Maybe high end coffee. Not. But Starbucks offers good, affordable, regular cups. Cups of coffee. It's what, like a $89 for a regular venti cup of coffee? [55:50] Chad: Starbucks. [55:51] JD: No, it's not. You live in Missouri. It's that how much it is there. [55:54] Mark: You live in Missouri. [55:55] JD: Oh my God, it's like $9 here. [55:58] Kate Clark: And by the way, like $10 driving. [56:00] Chad: I don't, I don't think most people just get a black coffee like you and I do. I think they order like a blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, frap whip, double what, whatever, cappuccino. [56:11] Mark: What do you order there? No, I want to know what Kate orders. [56:14] Justin: Yeah, so Josh has actually gotten me hooked on these Americanos. [56:18] JD: Yeah. Oh, yeah, Good stuff, good stuff. [56:20] Chad: That's racist. Okay, hold on real quick. [56:24] JD: I was in a Starbucks the other day. I took my daughter there after school, got out early, I was working, she was reading one of her books she got from the library. And we were, without even really knowing realizing it, we were across the street from a school. Okay, high school. And when that school got out, there was a line out the door. Again, these are high school kids and I'm wondering, none of you have jobs and they're all buying the massive like milkshake looking drinks that I know are like $9. So again, I'm just saying these, these. How did I spend that much money? [56:59] Chad: You're right, Mark. [57:00] Mark: Yeah. [57:01] Chad: The broke ass people buy Starbucks because it's a pleasure for them in the morning. It makes them feel happy in their miserable, broken, poor. [57:10] Mark: Oh my gosh. [57:12] Chad: No, it's true and no, it is not. [57:14] Mark: They don't have to be broken and miserable to go there. [57:18] Chad: No, but those people do. And it gives them. You are a rude, terrible person. [57:23] Mark: Thank you, Brandon. [57:24] Chad: And like Hackler said, he said it's crack. I really do think, like it's the only coffee I have. I don't know what's in it where I'm just like, oh, yeah, it's good, man. I don't feel that way with my other coffees. I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is. Okay, we've got some. Lot of stuff for the after show. [57:48] JD: Was there any content during the show? [57:50] Chad: I'm just. [57:51] Mark: There was some. But man, we had Kate Clark and we did. We didn't leverage her enough for a headline. [57:59] Chad: Talk about me. In the after show. We can talk about cold calling. I want to check in on the Stephen Wilkinson guy on LinkedIn. I actually had a. Not a conversation, a back and forth text with him about I. I dug deeper into some of his stats and so we can talk about that. I don't know if you guys remember that, but he's this guy on LinkedIn trying to film and document his cold calling journey in 401k. So it's really interesting. We can check in on that. I've got some updates. We can talk about Biden's tuition forgiveness. Chad wants to talk about how record keeper wholesalers can't tax. We'll do that in the after show talk. [58:37] Mark: I just want to point out. [58:38] Chad: Point it out. Well, I guess I just did my bad. Chat bar. Oh, next week housekeeping. Next week. I'll do that after. Chapter. Chapter champion. Your vote. Justin. [58:51] Kate Clark: Three piece. [58:52] Chad: Three Ps. Chad. [58:55] Mark: Yeah, go mark first because there's two that I need to. I need to go back and look at a comment down first. [59:00] Chad: I'm. I'm gonna vote for Pon. Because I. I like it when people give me. So Ponkaj has my votes. Robe guy. [59:10] Mark: Stephen even. [59:12] Chad: Who? [59:15] Mark: Ross. [59:15] JD: I don't want to say it wrong. Stephen. Stephen F. Is it for us? Force. Force. [59:21] Chad: Maybe on cause even Forest Force. Oh, yeah. Yes, I know. Steven. [59:28] JD: There's some quiet for us. All right. [59:31] Chad: Justin, who is your Zan. Sorry. [59:33] Kate Clark: Three Piece. [59:34] Chad: Three Piece, that's right. [59:36] JD: Jeez. [59:37] Chad: Prince. By the way, Three Piece called me yesterday on my cell phone and I had that moment of like when Tony calls me, I'm like, oh. But I. I picked up. I called him. We talked. [59:50] Justin: Kate, I gotta go with my girl Katie. [59:54] Mark: Oh, Katie was super active. She was. She was one of the two I was researching. [59:58] Chad: Yeah, okay. [1:00:00] JD: Researching. Chad, can for one minute, can you just not. [1:00:04] Chad: Wait, are you talking. Are you talking about Katie? [1:00:06] Justin: The. [1:00:06] Chad: The national director of all things Third party John Hancock? [1:00:13] Mark: Like, all I would say is since Katie took that job, I haven't received a call or a text yet. [1:00:18] Chad: Have you seen her new office? She's. She's in the corner office of John Hancock with a waterfall behind her marble desk. And she. She only writes with a gold pen. She's super fancy. Now, did we get everyone? [1:00:33] Mark: No, you haven't got me yet, but I want to hear yours. Are you going? Are you going, Katie? [1:00:37] Chad: I said. [1:00:37] Mark: Oh, you did say punkage. I have. For the defense of my electronic email. I'm going hack. [1:00:45] Chad: Okay. [1:00:46] Mark: I'm going hack for the defense. [1:00:47] Chad: It's good that you throw the. The greatest of all times in there. You know, it's once in a while because I feel like they get looked over. They get looked over. Okay, so we got Ponkosh, we got Steven, we got Three Piece, we got Katie, and we got the Hackinator. Here we go. This is a. This is a competitive one. I thought this is a good show so far. I like this. I'm. It's vibing for me. [1:01:13] Mark: I mean, Kate. [1:01:15] JD: Yeah. [1:01:17] Mark: We'll see if Brandon gets the voting up. Any point. But he's still. [1:01:20] JD: So Brandon might be asleep. [1:01:22] Chad: His brand's still sober. He told me the other day. He's not doing caffeine now, like, so now he's giving up alcohol. He's gonna capture. [1:01:29] Mark: Life Must be so shitty. [1:01:31] Chad: Well, he does other drugs, so. [1:01:37] Kate Clark: Weekly. Ayahuasca. [1:01:39] Mark: Oh, what did I call the ayahuasca the other day on the show? [1:01:42] JD: I don't even know. Yeah, I was all bad. I'm actually going tomorrow. [1:01:48] Chad: Are you really again? Yeah. Oh, yeah. [1:01:52] Kate Clark: Are you just meeting, like, spiritual beings from all over the universe? What's going on? [1:01:57] Mark: Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. I think. [1:02:00] JD: I think it's called an addiction. [1:02:01] Mark: Brandon looks so happy. [1:02:03] Chad: Hey, Justin, how do you think a frog on a bicycle brings the RV onto our stage? Graphic. Where do you think that comes from? You think that's just. Yeah. [1:02:13] Mark: Well, you're right. [1:02:13] Chad: It's tomorrow. [1:02:17] JD: Katie walked away with it. [1:02:19] Chad: Katie, the national gpa. Oh. All right, Katie, you won. Chapter champion. Send me your mailing address and where you're going to be next Thursday night, and I'll send you a dozen gold pens to chew on or something. [1:02:41] JD: Okay, you gotta send her one of those, like, little plaque things that has, like, a writing on it. [1:02:47] Kate Clark: No. [1:02:47] Chad: You know what I'm gonna do? [1:02:48] JD: Oh, yeah. Next week's Thanksgiving. I'm not showing up, dude. [1:02:51] Mark: Sorry. Yeah. [1:02:52] Chad: Mark, we don't have a show, but you know what I'm gonna do? Oh, you're right. So, Katie, I'm gonna send you something anyways, but I'm gonna get you back. I know you're new to Hancock, but Hancock for decades has sent us that caramelized popcorn in a big tub. I hate that. And so I'm gonna. I'm gonna send a five gallon tub of caramel popcorn to your house all because John Hancock's. It's coming back to you. It's paybacks, but it is Max. [1:03:23] Mark: Got it. Send 10 of them. [1:03:25] Chad: I'm being punished. [1:03:25] Mark: 50 gallons. 50 gallons. [1:03:27] Chad: That's how it works, Katie. You're part of the team now. You got to answer to what they've done. [1:03:31] JD: Yeah, but the 10 it will be in will be Harry Styles, so I'm sure you'll love it. [1:03:36] Chad: That would be. [1:03:36] Kate Clark: Don't bring that up. Don't bring that up. [1:03:37] Chad: Right now. Harry's on the west coast doing some shows. That's sexy. [1:03:41] JD: Pretty sure Katie loves that guy, right? [1:03:43] Chad: I love that guy. [1:03:44] Kate Clark: He just canceled two of their four shows. [1:03:46] Chad: Oh, okay. [1:03:48] JD: Katie, I could care less about that. [1:03:49] Chad: Justin, thank you so much for being with us tonight. We love you. You are part of our family. Many people not may not know this, but this is going to sound weird, but people want to hang out with us sometimes at conferences, and we try to weed out the ones we don't want to hang out with. That guy we hung out with. And Kate was like our. She was like our fifth retireholic in wherever we were. I forget where we were, but she hung out. She went to dinner with us. We. We hung out and gambled together. And you're truly are part of our family. We love you. You're also a phenomenal advisor and a great partner of ours. But anyways, we love you. Kate. Yes, Chad? [1:04:43] Mark: I was just gonna say we didn't give her enough bandwidth tonight. Kate, arguably, and I do say that arguably the most intelligent advisor I have worked with, and it's been so much fun. I wish we could get more of that brain on here. And we will in the after show if you're sticking around. But my God, it's. It's impressive every time we talk and thanks to you. Okay. [1:05:07] JD: He says that to every guest, every show he watches. [1:05:11] Mark: She knows better. [1:05:12] Chad: We appreciate to all 34,000 of you out there for tuning into tonight's show [1:05:17] Justin: for tonight, I want to know if I brought the best. [1:05:21] Chad: You're all right. Brandon, play some music. Oh, next week. Sorry. Yeah, next week.