Wealth@Work 2022 Recap: Litigation, Tech & Plan Design

[0:00] JD: Foreign. Hello and welcome to our podcast on all things financial services with a specialization in retirement plans. I'm your host, James Douglas Carlson, the president and chief executive officer of Plan Design Consultants, a third party administration firm founded in. Founded in 1975. I have the distinct pleasure in my notes it says I have the distinct pleaser pleasure of being joined by Chadwick Jackson Johansson, our sales director and industry thought leader. Mark Palmini, the vice president of sales for all flyover states and the Silicon Valley. And last but not least, Justin McNeil, VP of Sales for Beverly Hills, Puerto Rico, the Bahamas and Alaska. I don't know, there's going to be [1:21] Chad: some new travel on my credit card here pretty soon, boys. [1:25] Mark: Italy. [1:26] Chad: I hear plans are hot in Bahamas. [1:28] JD: The beer of the episode today is Woodford Reserve bourbon and a big ice cube. Because I'm trying to be sophisticated like a chief executive officer should be. The only problem is I don't really know how to make an Old Fashioned. So I just have like bourbon with some bitters in it and an ice cube and it tastes like shit. My wife just got home and she's making me a proper Old Fashioned in the kitchen. [1:53] Mark: That's very sweet of her. [1:54] JD: That is the beer of the episode today. We're going to play some games today across and has already started. We all know how that works. Yes. Chopper champion is back in an action on a normal Thursday night. We so we will be voting for the finalists and then you all out there will be voting for the winner. Last year's chopper champion last year. The last normal. Last week. Last week's chat bar champion was Jim Sampson. Jimmy, I believe if I check my text messages that Emily has dropped off your order from McDonald's. [2:40] Justin: Oh boy. [2:43] JD: Jim was delivered. Deep breath. Three Big Macs, six cheeseburgers, one fish fillet. Because nobody, nobody orders that anymore. So I wanted to at least order it. A 20 piece chicken nuggets with three packs of hot mustard sauce. Because what? Yeah, I, I and I went with it because who likes that? 3 1/2 strips of bacon. Who knew you could get that at McDonald's? I didn't know. [3:12] Mark: But [3:15] JD: a kid's happy meal with a ra regular burger. A Halloween trick or treat pail. You're welcome, Sampo. [3:21] Justin: Dude, people are buying those for thousands of dollars right now. Yeah. [3:25] JD: Apple slices and milk in that one. An apple pie and you get a wash it all down with a hot fudge sundae. Oh my gosh. Jesus. There's no way that Sunday lasted 6,350 calories was the math I had, I'd [3:46] Mark: be sick for a month. [3:47] Chad: How much of this do just goes in the trash? [3:50] JD: I don't know. Who cares? Okay, headlines please. Headline. Let's get right to it, shall we? There's an Empower managed account service lawsuit from the national association of Plan Advisors [4:22] Mark: and. [4:22] JD: Wait, I'm on the wrong one. Sorry, sorry. People in power. Here's the deal. We've heard about this before. We've had different guests on the show that have conspiracy theories on empower really focusing on these. What's an ir, an individual retirement account rollovers and how they've got these banks of people there. Right. Of Empower employees there to kind of help consult with these people and help them with these rollovers. Well, a couple quotes from this article that. [4:58] Justin: That article was pretty brutal. [5:00] JD: It's deep, right? [5:01] Chad: I mean it, man, it, it gets [5:04] Justin: really shady in terms of the way it's written at least, you know. [5:09] JD: Yeah. I mean we can have this debate about whether it's shady or whether it's just being a, you know, a good capitalist. But the beef is focused on how they allege empower position advisors in promoting a managed account solution to the exclusion of other options. I'm basically just reading from the article here. And what they see are practices that serve to obscure the ties between all of empowers different organizations. And what they see is conflict of interest. Over the last seven, eight years, empowers misrepresented to clients that advisors are salaried, non commissioned and objective fiduciaries acting the client's best interest. Turns out according to this article or someone's accusations that this is a bald faced lie. [5:52] Justin: Yeah. [5:53] JD: By the way, what is a bold faced lie? What the fuck does that mean? I probably use it. [5:58] Chad: I mean I feel offended by that term. [6:01] Mark: Face is not bald. [6:03] Chad: I thought it was bold face lie. Was it not? [6:06] Justin: No, I could have sworn it said bald too. [6:08] Mark: Yeah, I'm sure it says bald. [6:10] JD: I copied and cut. I've cut and copied here, cut and pasted. I copied and pasted. [6:18] Justin: It's written by Nevin. There's not a typo. Okay. Nevin's perfect. [6:22] JD: Never wrong. The truth is that compensation is that the compensation powers advisors receive is directly tied to enrolling participants into the managed account. So yeah, there's some talk of double dipping on fees and everything. So I don't know. Again, people have come on the show and talked about it and I used to think like oh well, well, looks like empowers just like smart and really efficient. They've got access to all these retirement plans. They know that rollovers are a good source of revenue for them if they can scale it and do it right. And so what better way to scale it and do it right than keep it all in house and make some revenue on it, right. Is this really wrong? [7:08] Justin: I guess it's just the way in which it was being done. At least the way that article is written to say that it was like legit internal communication about how it should be done. No other options that the comments too made about how they were like hand picking and again using their words. [7:30] Mark: Right. Like in my mind the, you know, [7:33] Justin: people with the bigger balances that they knew were nearing retirement who they could effectively hand pick because they had all this information who were. Now I'm going to forget the words even though I read it a minute ago. Like the unsophisticated folks. Yeah, that, that, that's where it got down. Like this, this, this other angle that I was like blown away by now [7:55] Chad: to that they, they actually built off that said, said something along the lines of had they known that you know, this would all be going back from power, they wouldn't have invested in it. And I call bullshit. [8:05] Justin: Yeah, it's not, that's not true. And by the way. Right. Innocent, guilty. This is, this is not, you know, we're just, we're just reporting. [8:12] JD: Right. They've just been sued. No one's, no one's, no judges. [8:16] Mark: As I think it's worth reading that section that mark is referencing, J.D. it says the suit Claims and Power used its knowledge as a retirement plan administrator to identify vulnerable unsophisticated investors and individuals with large account balances nearing retirement as targets for their sales representatives. [8:37] Justin: That word target, that makes me. [8:39] JD: Dude, I call that using data, bro. That's called monetizing. [8:44] Justin: You can, you can see it that way but then when you dive into the details. [8:49] Mark: So jd this would be my point why that is so relevant. We have been talking about monetizing the data but if a court case settles and sets some precedent for them targeting unsophisticated people, then leveraging the data is going to become so much more difficult to say that this person was, was not targeted based upon a lack thereof. [9:13] Justin: How do you, how do you identify unsophisticated? [9:16] Mark: By the way, do you go after plans that have no advisor because they won't ask a question of an independ advisor? Like are you looking for people that are blue collar? I don't know Mark, but that's my point is that if something like this settles it could get super dirty and trying to leverage the data. [9:32] Justin: Yes, Greg, I'm not sophisticated. [9:35] JD: Two things real first one more time is like these are words from the plaintiff. Right. And the plaintiff attorney. So these, these are their accusations. So they're going to be shocking. They're going to be jaw dropping. They're going to make you be like whoa, like you're not. And Nevin always talks about this when he writes these articles. You're not hearing from the defendants yet, right. You're just hearing these accusations. But I'm kind of with what Mark was saying is. I mean how do you even determine. Aren't all participants unsophisticated when it comes at least 98% of them. But if. God, Chad, if they were looking at like this is a trucking company in Missouri going after that man. Sorry, Justin. You had something to say. [10:15] Chad: I don't remember what it was now I learned actually do. They did talk. They did mention, you know, I think it was the non Empower related, you know or branded investments were about 80bps. [10:28] Justin: I'm curious to what better terms that counts. It does. [10:33] Chad: Curious to what they're grading that to like what could they have gotten it? You know, how much more cost effective could they have gotten it for? You know, what are they looking at there? What's the benchmark? [10:43] JD: That'd be an interesting detail to jump into at a later show. To be honest with you, I don't really know the span of fees as it relates to individual retirement accounts. [10:54] Mark: I interpreted that statement, Mac, as them saying what you're paying in your retirement account, where maybe there is advisor compensation, there's cost of administration. We're able to show you something that's lower in cost, therefore you should do it. I interpret it not as a, as a blanket comparison to other IRA individual retirement account investments. I'll take that. I was there. Yeah. 401k you were in. [11:25] JD: Well, they even go on to talk about the fact that it's the double dip they talk about is even the individual retirement account itself is invested in Putnam and. Or Great west and Power type funds as Empower bought Putnam back in the day. So. [11:41] Mark: And paying Advised Assets Group as the managed advisor on it. [11:45] JD: And you know, you know, you know, it'll be fun to see but you're right Chad. If something was to cut so. [11:51] Justin: So here. [11:52] JD: But that doesn't happen yet. [11:53] Justin: Begs the question what's, what's Empower been doing all these years? Just buying all kinds of. Where's that Money coming from. [12:04] Chad: Thanks, Tracy. [12:06] Mark: Thanks, Trace. Now Jenny can join. [12:08] JD: Let's do a taste tester. [12:11] Mark: Oh, yeah, there's no comparison. [12:14] JD: You might want to put this right back in the bottle. What? Yeah, that Mark, great one. They've been making all kinds of money off of these unsophisticated rollovers, man. [12:28] Justin: Whoa, is that money laundering? [12:29] Mark: Just by getting rid of it as [12:30] Justin: quick as you making it, they literally. Joking, joking. [12:35] JD: They acquired those companies on the backs of poor unsophisticated participants. [12:40] Chad: All right, Sampson's comment. [12:43] JD: No. [12:44] Justin: What? [12:44] Mark: Holy McDonald's. [12:48] JD: Okay, next headline. The American Retirement association joins amicus brief. I must have said that, right? Rebuffing BlackRock target date suit. Okay, Mark, don't. [13:05] Justin: Nevin's. Nevin's on a roll with these articles. [13:08] JD: Yeah, and. Oh, that's what I'm gonna say, guys. I'm gonna start sending you these articles every week. You're, you're crushing it. You got all these thoughts and stuff [13:16] Mark: and imagine that if we, we've only been asking for it. [13:23] Chad: I will say I did not read this article though. [13:25] JD: I'm gonna try that. [13:25] Justin: Oh, this one actually got me more excited than the other one. [13:29] JD: I like your enthusiasm, Mark, because to me this is less about the black rock suit. It really got to me. It has nothing to do with that. It's the fact that I was kind of floored by, wow, the American Retirement association is involved in this amicus brief, which to me, I'm not a lawyer, [13:47] Justin: I don't know what that means. So I just passed that. [13:50] JD: You can guess. It's some kind of like informational piece that's given to the court. Right. Someone in the chat bar, correct me if I'm totally off base here, but just saying like, look, here's some really like, well, to do important industry associations and people and things helping the court understand the case a little more. And apparently the American, well, they're, they're [14:12] Justin: trying to prevent some massive like exodus of things happening before it gets out of control. I mean their, their foresight on this is fantastic. Because I, I, I, when I'm reading, I'm like, yeah, I agree. They are, they are looking at this and saying if this continue, if that goes through and something happens, we're going to run into as an industry, just constant issues and lawsuits and it's going to be the wild friggin West. [14:43] JD: And to clarify for everyone listening in, Mark, what you're referring to and what the American Retirement association pointed out was, was that it seemed to be centered around performance right that this fund wasn't performing well and there are other form funds performing better. [14:58] Justin: Short term performance, by the way, you [15:00] JD: should have chosen those funds which if you crack, if you make that crack in the dam, we're all right. Like. Like nothing will make any sense. No, up will be down and down will be up. But what I didn't know was, and I'm sure this has happened in the past, I just don't pay close enough attention as I do these days. But the American Retirement association getting involved in an actual case and, and defending, in a sense, our industry. I didn't know things went that far for them. I thought they just kind of stayed on the sidelines and lobbied for legislation. Yeah, I didn't know they actually got involved in, in litigation. So I'd love to see some comments in the chat bar. People that are like, yeah, they do this all the time. So bada boom. [15:46] Justin: See, it's one of those things where, you know, we entrust John Sullivan to break the stories in years past. And obviously he wasn't doing his job. So every Nevin had to fill that void to say, hey, guess what? We're doing a whole lot more than we're getting credit for. So just so you guys know, here's a little tidbit. [16:05] JD: Shannon that's works jd, they do this shit all the time. She's got my vote so far for chatbot champion. So, yeah, we'll see how this plays out. I'm with you all. Back to the whole BlackRock thing. I really hope this one gets knocked down because that would. That would be rough. I'm sure it will. I'm sure it will. I'm sure. [16:25] Justin: Well, well, now that you've said that, I'm hedging my bets and going there. [16:28] Mark: Yeah, I was gonna say, what's Mark going? Where's Mark going? [16:30] Justin: They. They just, they just heard that and said, oh, no, we can't listen to that guy. [16:34] JD: That lawsuit has about as much chance as pooled employer plans, [16:42] Mark: by the way. Hold on. Before you move on too quickly from that, who was it during the conference that made the bold statement that pooled employer plans would be done within 18 months? [16:52] JD: Oh, yeah, I did see that quote. [16:53] Chad: I did not hear that. [16:54] Mark: They came over to us. Someone came over to. Was it. Was it Jeff? [16:59] JD: Dude, she's like losing her. She just grabbed her. Her computer and threw it against the wall. [17:06] Mark: Yeah, someone came over. I forget who it was. And it was someone that we fully respected. And I'm like, oh, we need to get into that While you feel that way, [17:14] Justin: they sure didn't say it to me then. [17:16] JD: Robert, let's be clear. Let's be clear and let me, let me jump on Sue's side for an odd way that I've never done before. People like sue are going to succeed. There are going to be advisor shops that have distribution either regionally or across the country that will create a pooled employer plan that they really like for whatever reason and it works well and they found the right partners in terms of a pooled plan provider and a record keeper and they like the core menu kind of vibe and the 338 they partner with. Hopefully it's not a conflict of interest and it's actually them. Maybe it is and maybe that's okay. I don't know or care. Sue will succeed in continuing to build up their book of pooled employer plans. So if you call that success, that's fine. What I'm talking about is in the bigger scheme of things, even Aon having a billion dollars. A billion dollars isn't fucking shit. Like 5 billion dollar plans get sued up. [18:16] Mark: Criterion had 17 billion ain't shit, you [18:19] JD: know, like so yeah, and they're small. So my point is on the bigger, bigger scheme, it's going to be a very small drop. Not even in the bucket. It's going to be a drop in the, you know, a fairly mid sized lake and it's not going to make that big of a difference. [18:35] Mark: I almost look at that statement and think of it like in conjunction with the money purchase plan. They still exist out there. There's still a few lingering. There's still even better people that believe in them, but nobody's writing them. They're not actively growing. [18:51] JD: Call it a slightly better multiple employer plan, you know, like, because multiple employer plans in my mind have not done jack shit. Like, but they exist and they're around and you run into them from time to time. [19:03] Mark: You know, there's a, there's a must in that space. JD There are certain businesses that, that really do need to be part of a multiple employer plan based upon the structure of their company and the way their ownership is set up and their divisions are. So like, I see that as a very different thing. [19:18] JD: Are you, are you suggesting that pooled employer plans will not succeed more than multiple employer plans? You're more pessimistic than me. I don't think that that's true. [19:29] Mark: No, I think they will. I think they will. [19:31] JD: Pulled employer plans will garner a little more success than multiple. [19:35] Mark: I agree with you. [19:36] JD: I agree with you. But even that won't be because. Because a multiple employer plan is like an even open multiple employer plans. When they were kind of legal, but not kind of legal. And no one knew. Like, I mean that was like a unicorn sighting. Like you would never see those things out in the world. You see that once in a while. That's what Peps will be like. Oh, I was doing so good on that. [20:02] Justin: Shocked, actually. [20:05] JD: Okay. I also want to make a promise to everyone and I need your guys help. It's not fair to the audience that tunes in. Our guests in the future have to drink their penalty drinks. They cannot keep skirting aside. I'm talking to you, Jeff Atchison. You know, they've literally have got to drink those suckers. So we can need to find a team way, maybe sit them down before and be like, yo, bro, this is legit, man. I don't know, man. [20:34] Justin: There's. [20:35] Mark: There's all of his. [20:36] Chad: Eventually. No blanking on something. [20:39] Mark: No. [20:39] JD: And he's not the only one. I don't want to isolate him. There's plenty of people out there. [20:42] Justin: That's, that's just tough, man. Because you don't want to make. Yeah, I don't know. [20:45] JD: But come on, let's, let's be true. [20:48] Mark: No. [20:48] JD: Mark, do you guys ever skip? Do you guys ever skip? [20:50] Mark: No. And let's clarify what he's saying. If they don't drink, they don't drink. We're not going to force them to drink. But if they're on the show and they say they're participating, then they can't skate by and take one drink. When he said it 13 times during a show. And so we need to come up like some little segment jd like a Jeopardy tune where if they, if they get above 4, if they get above 4 owed, that comes on, it's like, dude, you gotta tell you sorry. Now you have to stop what you're saying and take it. [21:17] Justin: Well, that's the hard part JD is you always tell them, well finish your thought night. Which I get. But then it's very easy for us to just kind of move past it. [21:25] Mark: You see Sherry's point. If they don't do it, we make them pay. They gotta, they gotta donate to a non profit. So. [21:32] JD: And for anyone in the future that doesn't drink, I love the designated drinker box. So we're going to continue that. But. And then only one who gets a pass to. [21:40] Justin: Oh, I like that. Donate. If you don't drink it, you have to donate to some charity. I love That's. That is a fantastic. [21:49] JD: I think they drink. And. And I also say the only one who gets a pass is Frederic. Okay, let's spin the Wheel of Ice. [21:58] Chad: Not John. [22:00] Mark: Well, it's different for John. [22:02] JD: Remember, sober people get a dusty drinker. [22:05] Chad: Okay, [22:08] Mark: I'm due. [22:09] Chad: Yes. [22:12] Mark: I skated by in Vegas with nothing. [22:14] JD: I knew it. [22:15] Mark: I knew that it was get it right every time. [22:21] JD: Hey, Samson told you that on LinkedIn today. [22:24] Mark: I know he did. [22:25] JD: You did something and he's like, oh, you deserve the ice. [22:28] Mark: This thing won't if I can't open it. Do I still have to do it? [22:32] Chad: Yep. [22:32] Justin: You got to break it over your head. [22:34] Mark: Yeah. You guys glued these shut last time you were here. [22:36] JD: Justin. [22:37] Mark: Okay, no. [22:39] JD: Three months I walked the floor. The exhibitor, the sponsor, slower at wealth at work. And there's a lot of names that you recognize, Large record keepers, mutual fund families, et cetera, et cetera. But there's also a lot of these other companies that I'm going to call, like 401k tech vendors. [22:59] Mark: And Jeff got here. Perfect timing. [23:05] Justin: Did you get a text from somebody? Anybody? [23:09] JD: Too soon? [23:09] Mark: Too soon. [23:11] JD: Hey, Jeff, can you do us a favor? Drink whatever you're drinking right now. Like, why don't you put back about nine shots? O skis. O skis, bro. Oh, skis. There's all these little vendors that you know, new little startups, little tech companies. I shouldn't say new and little. Some of them are. Have been around and they're bigger firms, for sure. I'm gonna go through some of the names and I'd like to get y' all's opinion on if they matter. Have you heard of them? Should. And when I say if they matter, I mean, like, do advisors care? You know? And Hackler, you fucking genius. [23:47] Chad: That's a new term, huh? [23:48] JD: That's my very first one is venrolments. Okay, so. Venrollments. Mark, Chad, Justin, you have any idea. Have you heard. Be honest with yourselves. Have you heard of them? [24:00] Justin: I was today years old when I [24:02] Mark: learned of that name on this show or. Or elsewhere. [24:06] Chad: Already assuming it stands for virtual enrollment. [24:08] Justin: No, like right this minute. [24:11] Mark: I didn't even see them at the conference. [24:12] JD: Well, they were. [24:13] Justin: I didn't actually walk around. [24:17] JD: They were there. Tampa's helping me out. Hacklers help me out. Video enrollment. So think you're. You're a business. I guess you could be an advisor, too. But your ABC company, they will bust out pretty quickly. Oh, really? Okay. Yeah. Well, does it. Yeah, yeah, it counts. [24:37] Justin: I don't know it's three letters, so [24:39] Chad: yeah, [24:42] Justin: that probably doesn't help. [24:44] JD: Yeah, they will bust out a video for you with your logo on it and your color scheme. And when you tell them you got a safe harbor match and we automatic enrollment, that they'll put that into a little video and bada bing, bada boom. Just this. Me going to their website. [24:58] Justin: Sherry, Sherry, chat to everybody. I think. Unless you're not trying to do that. [25:02] Mark: Sorry. [25:03] JD: Calling you yes and yes. Similar to V wise in the past. [25:06] Mark: If V wise. That's what I was trying to think [25:08] JD: of kind of thing. So. [25:10] Mark: So, because I don't know. But V wise is the one that would integrate actual enrollment links into the video. So the video would stop and say, are you ready to enroll or do you need more? And if you click yes, it would loop you right into principal or loop you right into nationwide. That shit was good. [25:26] JD: I think there's lots of tech out there that will even take you through the enrollment and then send the data back to the record keeper like through a feed versus the ones that are out there and say, okay, now go to your record keeper, log in and follow everything we just told you to do. I don't know all the specifics and I'm not trying to get into all the specifics. I just want to know like. So this type of enrollment. Chad to you first. Is this valuable to the advisors walking around the conference? Absolutely, it is. [25:56] Mark: Yeah. [25:57] JD: Okay. [25:57] Mark: I think we've talked for a while about technology that goes across platform so that advisors can build out their own solution regardless of the record keeper that's being used. And I think something like this can make that really possible for each of your clients. [26:11] JD: Are we seeing any of this from the. Have the record keeper stepped up their game in this type of tech or is they still pretty much just. Yeah, we give enrollment support. Here's a video. They don't use like customized pre record. [26:24] Mark: They'll. They'll record their enrollment video. They'll put some brain shark out. But no, that really hasn't gotten much better, especially in the last. In my mind, two years. [26:35] JD: Okay, next one. Retire ready. Mark, you familiar with this? No. You didn't even walk the floor. Everyone out there in the chat bar, retire ready. Let me know if you know who they are. You've seen them before. Chad. Justin. Yes. No, no, I think. [26:51] Chad: But no. [26:53] Mark: Yes, Chad, I think I do. I need to see the logo to make sure Samson's. [26:57] JD: Samson is on track with his. See the pun I did there? That was pretty slick. Yeah, it is that. And I guess I would call it not just enrollment tech, but also like gap analysis reports, kind of a step towards retirement readiness type of stuff. And who has to drink? Mark, who's ringed up? [27:20] Justin: I think. Well, okay, never mind. I don't know. I was sort of, I think I'm thinking of a different type of analysis when you said the word gap. [27:30] JD: Yeah, I'll go with because it was upon Samson's right. It's not, it's not the gap analysis. The last one, the. [27:39] Justin: I was thinking about the insurance. [27:42] JD: Okay, got it. Anyways, I have actually sat through a webinar on this one, talked with the guy who started it and I was pretty impressed. It's really cool. Hence my question here now. Like, I think Retire Ready is really neat technology. I could totally see it being used by an advisor to create a more impactful fiduciary review meeting to have a more plain of attack with all their clients. My question to you all is, is it, is it valuable? Are people using it? Do you see it in your day to day? [28:14] Chad: No, I don't not mind. But that's, that was my biggest question in the start of this. Like we all love these technologies and we've seen them over the years and we've all touted them and thought they could really help people. But who's actually using it when we [28:26] JD: get to the end? I'd like to figure out isn't the [28:28] Justin: ultimate goal is they just want to sell it? They just want to get a, just, just make a keyboard buy? [28:34] Mark: Yeah, maybe I, this, maybe Mark. Maybe that's the end goal. But, but are people using it? Yes, J.D. and it's the type of people that are at that conference. It's not the onesie twosies. It's not the, the folks who are stumbling into opportunities. It's the advisors that are doing a great deal of business and need some of this tech to help clients and to create a cohesive offering. I think if I were an advisor, one of the biggest issues for me is that what I'm doing for one client that has fidelity is very different than what I'm able to do for another client that has Empower, which could be very different for how I enroll people when they're with Nationwide. And if I feel like my, my, my offering when I'm with Empower is great because they have this wonderful tech and then I sell a nationwide plan and I don't feel the same, I, I feel like I'm letting my client down. I want to Find tech to bridge the gap between record keeper. [29:26] JD: So you're a supporter then of an advisor building. I hate this term but I'm going to use it. Or tech stack. Yep, yep. Next one. Pen Checks. Pen checks. The most phenomenal company in the west ever. Penchecks was there. We'd love penchecks. Chad, don't you dare squint like that. [29:46] Mark: Come on. I was wearing the Penchecks hats at our table. [29:49] JD: Of course I'm sure a lot of advisors maybe don't recognize the name but if you, if you're a third party administrator, you do. They work in distributions. They can really help you with like unpackaged products like trust accounting clients, self directed brokerage accounts, those types of things where you can do really like modern day distributions that are trackable and done well. So anyways they're, they're a great firm but again there they are. And they do other things. They work with advisors on individual retirement account stuff and, and all kinds of stuff. So check out Pen checks. That was a little bit of a blurb. They help us with some things. Morningstar was there. They're a massive company. Morningstar's there. I'll skip past them because I think we all understand where their value could be. You know their fund analysis and investment analysis and they worked on reports. I think they get drowned out by the Fi3 60s and the retirement plan advisor groups and, and some of those tools. But Morningstar has sick fund analysis and, and blotter charts and all kinds of like, you know, things you can use to communicate to your clients and your participants. So I, me personally, I should stop ignoring them and look at them the same way I analyze an FY 360 [31:03] Mark: or something like that for sure. [31:05] JD: And Lisa says Ashley was there and she's awesome. Well that helps to Lisa to have an awesome Ashley on your team. I'm going to drink for this one. Ira. Logics with an X. Heard of them before? Before. I don't know what they do either. [31:29] Mark: So here, here's what I learned from this. Granted, we're not the typical person walking that floor. Right. It's advisors. What I learned from this is I want to list from, from Lisa and Bryant afterwards just so I can research these companies that I didn't have time to walk around and learn more about them because yeah, if they're spending the money to be there, they're relevant. There are folks that we should know their companies that we should be more acquainted with. [31:54] JD: I mean I would hope. That was a great point, Chad. If I was an advisor trying to build my practice, I'd be walking those those pathways, stopping at those booths, trying to figure out if there was something I need to add to my tech stack or something I need to consider to replace something else. So I'm assuming that the individual retirement account Logics is is helping advisors with rollovers. Their website could use a little work. If anyone from there listens to this now or in I'd work on that website a bit Incentive. I didn't know who incentive was. I reached out to Bryant Lester and I said who the is incentive? And he goes yo bro. He didn't say this word for word but he goes that's E Money. I went to E Money Incentive and looked up and Brandon, I sent you a link via email. I don't know if you had a chance. You had a lot going on. Doesn't matter if you can't pull it up. If you can, great. But E Money or Incentive by E Money. That looks like a sweet ass app. Like it's got great screenshot. This is all made for your phone for mobile and stuff. Atchison says it's slick. That's how I felt looking at it. So you're talking about a wellness tool for participants that an advisor could add to their their system. That's actually kick ass. [33:13] Mark: We've chatted about it before on here. We've chatted about E Money and incentive. [33:19] JD: I must have been drunk on that one. [33:21] Mark: Well it was just a mention of mine because remember I mentioned my advisor uses it and there were some questions on well how do. How do you leverage it and how does he send it to you and what do you do on it stuff. [33:30] JD: So yeah. So anyways, that's a cool one. I join was there that's another enrollment technology financial fitness a wellness fiduciary decisions. That's like an outcomes kind of the the word I screwed up earlier analysis type of thing. Benedict was there as a proposal and a request for proposal technology. We've had Benetk on this show before so they're this cool technology. So anyways, I just feel like we walked away from that conference. Me myself just not really paying attention to all these cool little new texts and I just wanted to have a Chad Nuggets moment of like we should be building our tech stack. Let me ask you why do you think a lot of foreign kid advisors. Why does 401k if you talk to it's so I'll drink for that. He says it a lot, Josh. He says the financial planning wealth management space is like way ahead of us in terms of their tack. Like they love all these little snap on things and there's tons of great ones, but in the 401k space we seem to be way behind them for the most part at least. Any, any ideas on why that might be? [34:44] Mark: My, my first thought is because many advisors have good profit margin on the private wealth side. So their thought is to spend their. Whereas on the 401k side many are using it as a loss leader and their thought is trim cost, not, not create margin. [34:59] JD: I was thinking, and I've had conversations with people before, that has a lot to do with the fact that we're so siloed as an industry. Like boyas, the principals, the empowers, they're all competing with each other and they're kind of closed off. It's kind of like Apple versus Microsoft and the open source. I'm going to drink for this one. Like we're not very API friendly as an industry. Like we've struggled even with payroll and360 fees for the longest time. So when you're a young startup and you create something cool, it's really tough to get your foot in the door of Empower Voya principle and try to share data to get your app to work properly and they usually tell you to fucking get lost. And that kind of sets us back. [35:46] Mark: Belton said in the chat bar that many advisors are looking to the record keeping platforms to provide that stuff. My initial, my initial immediate response was he's right and I agree. And then my next thought in my head was, well, yeah, because in the private wealth space you're usually not paying outside resources for items for support for tech, you're paying the advisor for their support. But in the retirement plan space, you're paying a record keeper. And so I think advisors look at that like, well, we're paying for services. Let's pull what they're offering, let's leverage it. Right. [36:21] JD: Well but to your earlier point, that seems short sighted to me. If you want to build a successful, repeatable practice that you're proud of and you can talk to a prospect with enthusiasm about, it's one that you've pieced together, right? Yeah, don't hit me with the whole don't get me started in Hotel California again, I can't go there right now. We're actually going to talk about that. Jeff, stay tuned, buddy. Stay tuned. Let's play a little game. I got a new segment for y'. All. Bless you, Mark. Oh, something new, Something New. It doesn't have a sound to it, but I sent Brandon a little graphic. Hopefully he got it. It's called for me. I really like. For me, I really like. No, I don't know. It's making us. It's the corn guy. You know, [37:14] Mark: I really like corn. [37:16] JD: I sent Brand this great corn graphic. Brand's like, bro, I've been fucking busy, man. You know, Brandon, when he's sober, he's harder to work with. Okay. And how this works is, Justin, pretty simple. I just want to know pop culture, man. I want to know what you really like these days. Is it a Netflix documentary? Is it a movie? Is it a game you're playing? You know, what is floating your boat these days that we could all learn from and jump on your ship? You know what? [37:49] Mark: We want to be on your ship. [37:50] JD: I want to do it. [37:51] Chad: I hear you want to be on my ship. What am I watching? [37:58] JD: I guess I should have sent you an email about this. Yeah, you probably should have. [38:03] Chad: What's the Game of Thrones one called? [38:05] JD: Shit. [38:05] Chad: Yeah. [38:06] JD: House of Dragons. Fucking baller Baller show. I back you on that. [38:12] Justin: Yeah. [38:13] JD: Were you. Were you a Game of Thrones person? [38:15] Chad: Oh, yeah. So I. I stopped. Still. [38:18] Justin: Still don't know many of the names. [38:20] Mark: Right. [38:21] Chad: And so we were. I was putting it off. Putting off for years and years. And I was out on vacation and the people I was with wanted to watch. Everyone sees second to last episode of season seven and they were playing in the. In the room and I was just kind of paying attention to it. And it's when the dragons come out and they're. [38:38] JD: The. [38:38] Chad: The. I. The. What are the. The ice people called again? Anyways, they get one of the dragons. Yeah, the White Walkers. Yeah. Kill one of the dragons. [38:46] Justin: And I'm like, hey, we are. We are a. No, no spoiler show, man. People, this was. [38:53] Chad: This is. [38:53] JD: I've seen it. [38:54] Justin: This is spoiling it. [38:55] Mark: That's all your fault. But that's not my point. [38:58] Chad: It's not my point. I went home and watched all seven seasons in three and a half weeks. It was terrible. So good. [39:08] JD: Mark, what do you got going on these days? [39:11] Justin: Well, see, I don't know. You almost made it seem like we have to pick a show now. But I'm going to go that route because I have some guilty pleasures in terms of shows. I don't. I do watch the House of Dragons. Yes. [39:26] JD: I still have one. I have the last one to watch. I'll be watching. [39:30] Justin: I just. My. My wife and I just. Maria And I. Excuse me. We watched Dahmer started that. That' creepy freaking show. [39:38] JD: That. [39:39] Justin: And then last night we got notification that. And this is gonna be a real guilty pleasure. [39:44] Mark: Brooke told me today the Love is [39:46] Justin: Blind new season just came out. So we watched the first. First episode of that. I think that show is absolutely stupid, [39:54] Mark: but I have to watch it, [39:58] JD: Chad. And if it's. If it's a show feel, go right ahead. That's fine. [40:02] Mark: Well, I will tell you what I'm truly into right now, because it was a revelation for me. I wasn't willing to spend the money on pass, but then you left me a bottle of Grey Goose, and now my vodka horizons have grown, and I like Grey Goose better than Brandon. Tee up. [40:19] Justin: The vodka video. She is. [40:21] JD: Chad's new hobby is vodka. Yeah. [40:23] Justin: This is so good. [40:25] Mark: And I'll add vodka on a golf course. Those two things go together really well. So that's what I'm into. [40:30] JD: I will back you. That is Chad Nuggets. If anyone out there, if you haven't experienced vodka, you should. It's phenomenal. I love that. Well, shoot. I love the House of Dragons, Justin. I was actually going to kind of go there, but I'll go. I'll go cheesier one. I like the. I like the real estate shows. And I've been watching this really bad one on Netflix called Selling Sunset. It's in the Hollywood area. I mean, it's kind of like a mix of, like, the good real estate shows and then the. Then the housewife shows on Bravo. It's like a little hybrid of that. And I'm not saying it's quality, but it's kind of like train wreck, you know, like you're watching it just going. That's kind of how I feel about the housewife shows sometimes, too. But so. All right, so we. No, wait. Three shows to watch and vodka. Yeah, that's good. That's good. That has been the first installment of. I've been drinking a lot of vodka in my free time. [41:43] Justin: Bye, everybody. [41:44] Mark: Bye. [41:44] JD: Bye. [41:45] Mark: Bye. [41:45] JD: Bye. Oh, you're out here. See you, Robbie. [41:46] Mark: See you, Margie. [41:47] Justin: Love you guys. [41:48] Mark: Good luck tonight. [41:49] Justin: Bye. My vote is for. My vote is for. My vote is for. [42:01] Mark: You know what they say. [42:03] Chad: Hurry. Yep, this is where we need the Jeopardy. [42:07] Mark: Oh, he did. [42:10] JD: You look classic Robbie. [42:12] Mark: Fact. [42:12] JD: Everyone hanging. All right, last little quick topic before we get to chap our champion and all that. We did three shows from Vegas, and I'm sure many of you could not tune in, so I thought maybe we could just Do a couple little highlights of what we talked about with some of those people. Let's start with Acheson since he was the most recent. My name is Jeff. We should have played that. [42:44] Mark: Brandon played it one time during the show. [42:48] JD: Chad. I'm going to nerdy Chad. You've had some time to soak it in. You're not under the hot lights. You're not. You don't hear all the chaos of wealth at work in the background. He is a Timberlake acronym. He is a country singer acronym. He used a hotel California acronym. But he was referring to like plan design. Like actually like getting more in the weeds with plan design and solving owners of companies problems. Now that you've had time to soak it in. Any thoughts and think to the people who didn't get to hear him. [43:21] Mark: Yeah, so. So I will say and he wrote on LinkedIn, thank you for that Jeff. I'll get back to you. When can we connect to talk about the non qualified deferred comp space as a solution for these owners? Because if you recall that's what one of the areas we got into was him saying you can use this to solve plan design issues and for those that weren't listening in or like succession issues. Yeah and I shouldn't say issues but I was getting ready to say a big part of his time with us was saying he thinks we are going to revert back and I'm going to use his terminology as an industry to leveraging plan design to really help clients. And he wasn't talking about plan design auto enroll auto features like we have been for years. He's going in and saying setting more money aside for the executives and the owners of the business and really creating a customized design that allows them to shelter a shit ton of money. And in that discussion he said using the non qualified deferred comp because I came back and said we've been doing that in the D.C. world for 50 years. We've got that down pat. And he said the non qualified deferred comp and I still. J.D. i don't know the answer. I don't believe him at this point and I know he's far smarter than I am and he's going to have to teach me. But I have not had anybody who is a non qual specialist show me a way in which it creates much. I get it. It's tax deferred for a short period of time. Create much tax benefit out of a non qualified foreign owner of a business. [44:48] JD: Get mad at me if I'm wrong. Chad, you're missing his point. He wasn't saying that he was. The non qualified deferred comp solution he had was around an owner who had value in their company and they didn't. Not only and they didn't. Yeah, it was. [45:04] Mark: No, that was not his only point, but that was his focus is the succession planning of helping those people buy the company. And that's where I fought back there as well. [45:11] Chad: Which is something we never really thought about. [45:13] Mark: Absolutely it is. Yes, it is something I thought about. And using the cash balance. I think you're the same thing. [45:19] JD: I think you're wrong. Jeff. Jeff's here. Jeff, tell us Chad's wrong. [45:23] Mark: We can play that out if you want to talk the business. Number one, let me ask how the business comes up the money to put in the non qual. They pull it back from the executives that are trying to buy the business. [45:35] JD: Yeah, but your point is moot. He didn't say that you can use a non qualified deferred comp as a design feature for owner businesses. He was talking about succession plans and getting. Oh, okay, well then what the fuck are you talking about then? That didn't. [45:53] Mark: I'm still talking about the tax benefit. Why would the owner want to get paid out in a non qual in that situation? [45:58] JD: Oh, you made that argument when he was on the show and he, his response to you is a very intelligent one. He goes, I'll teach you later. No, he said what's the tax benefit if your company's worth, you know, bs. No, that was legit, bro. He's like, what if your company's worth 15 million and you're only going to get 4 for it because you can't find the right buyers or whatever that who get. Then your whole tax advantage goes out the window. [46:22] Mark: So what makes you think if, if you're going to get a real ways to buy it for you for that value, if you can't sell it for that value outside of those employees. His, his comments of saying you need those people to make your company valuable. That is super rich, super real. I get it. Incredibly true. You need those high end executives that have made your company successful. If you intend to sell it, they need to be locked in. That point of his. Totally get it. [46:50] JD: But Chad, in the real world you can have, and we can move on to genie stuff, but you can have executives and people who work from you who understand the value of the company because they've worked there for a long time where the outside market doesn't get It. And you're. And you're. That's not reaching, bro. That's real life. [47:11] Mark: You're reaching. [47:12] JD: That's so not reaching. That's real life. As someone who's a business owner who looks at, like, valuations of things, that is very true. Like, and markets ebb and flow, and sometimes people want to buy your business, sometimes people don't. And it's. It's. It's. It's very, very true. And I think what he said was. Was pretty smart, and he's got a far better fashion sense than you. Anyways, Chad. So a Jeannie Fisher. Justin. Jeannie Fisher talked about not just knocking on doors. She knocks on doors of prospects that she's researched strategically, you know, a plan she wants to win, and she stops by with gifts, like s' mores or, I don't know, I'm making a bottle of wine. But she usually puts a creative little twist on it. I mean, when I heard that, I was like, that's kind of baller. I mean, well, it's how you. [48:04] Chad: You get remembered, right? Like, that's what makes you that different. And so they're gonna remember, oh, yeah, you're that person. You're not the person who dropped off the last little binder of whatever marketing materials you have. Right? [48:17] JD: Chad was too heated with Jamie to read the chat. [48:20] Mark: JD always wants to pick the side of our guest. You won't listen. [48:26] Justin: Speaking of that, I love. [48:28] JD: I love blasphemy. [48:29] Chad: How she kept firing right back at him. [48:32] JD: Desenso, am I the one who picks the side of the fair point? Yeah. Genie Fisher shut me the fuck down on the whole social thing. I really felt intimidated. I was like, damn, she's crushing me right now. Sorry, Sutton. Sutton. Sutton? Yeah. Sutton. Justin, would you go to your advisors these days and tell them about Jeannie Sutton and the fact that she drops off s'? Mores? [49:02] Chad: I mean, tell me if they're trying to get in. I mean, yeah, advisors are always asking for, hey, what are you guys seeing? That's creative, right? [49:09] JD: And. Or how have you ever told them that they should go up to the receptionist and drop off a gift? Be honest. [49:15] Chad: I. I actually have. I used to use that in my last job, to be honest with you. Not a gift like that. But, you know, we have a buddy who used to work for us, did that same exact thing. He customized a lot of stuff and had these little packets and stuff that he would drop off and whatnot. And he did have some success with it. I don't know if he's still doing it. [49:35] JD: Who's asking the hundred dollar? That's the deal that you can't give, too. [49:41] Chad: I mean, maybe we should just start delivering McDonald's to him, you know, 6,000 calories worth. [49:47] JD: And then there was Kush. We had Kush on the show. And, you know, so much happened between now and Kush, I can't remember what the fuck we talked about. So let's just go shop. Our champion. [50:00] Justin: Love you, Kush. [50:01] Chad: I want him back. We were too rushed for that one. [50:04] Mark: We were. We had to short. Shorten that one up a bit. [50:07] JD: Yeah, there's a lot of drink in between then and now for me. Do you know I had someone come up to me at the conference. Can I tell everyone this? Had someone come up and they said, here, I'm a huge fan of what you guys do. I really like everything you've been doing. I've been watching for years. And then they looked me dead in the eye and they go, but, hey, I just want to make sure you take care of yourself, okay? Like, they're like, he said this thing. He goes, maybe he's on right now. I'm so sorry. I'm not making fun of you. It's so nice that you said that. He goes, we don't want to lose you. I think what he knows, jt, I watch you on Thursday nights. You're gonna drink yourself to death, bro. [50:49] Mark: I think maybe he. He heard you mention drinking a lot [50:52] JD: of vodka in my free time. [50:55] Mark: He heard you mention your actual age and went, oh, geez. Like, he looks pretty good. But if that's true, here's two things that I want to mention from the conference that. That I thought was interesting. One, you went off, and I don't remember who it was, but I know who he came up with. He came up with Tim Gay. And you went off on a guy I had not mentioned that said, I really like what you guys are doing for the younger generation. And JD's like, this isn't about the younger generation. This is about everybody. You went off on. [51:26] JD: It was the American Century executive. And he's like, yeah, man, I really like guitarholics. I love. You guys are reaching the youth you reach. I'm like, you, bro. That's not what we're doing. We're for everyone. You. [51:39] Mark: And then the second thing was at that conference, and Lisa's on here, so maybe. Maybe I should say this kind of sensitively, but I think it's enjoyable for me. Who's someone who doesn't have the same Stresses. I notice the anxiety level of people in general are so much higher because a lot of the people walking around are presenters and they may not always present in this environment. [52:02] JD: They're having speaking anxiety. [52:04] Mark: They're having some speaking anxiety. Like, you can hear it in their voice. Like, I gotta go speak. In two hours, I'll be in, you know, room C. And I don't catch that elsewhere. But it's because they're usually. They're at these conferences so relaxed, and now they're there and they gotta do some speed. [52:19] JD: Yeah. Sherry Fitz looked really nervous to you, huh? [52:22] Mark: No, Sherry never looks nervous. Sherry's got ice in those veins. [52:26] JD: Sherry, do you know. Does Sherry even know that she was the. That she was the winner of the. The first. I don't even think Lisa Allen knows there was this thing, but there was Lisa. There was an inaugural 2022 wealth at Work Fashion Awards, and Sherry Fitz was the winner. Congratulations, Sherry. You'll have to go back and watch Jeff Atchison's episode to see all of that. What prize from who? Sponsored by J.D. carlson and nominated by J.D. carlson and voted on by J.D. [52:59] Mark: but listen, we set the stage that for next year, JD and his committee are coming up with five. And we have to bring them on stage and talk about what they are wearing and why they're. They're in the best dress of the conference conversation. [53:14] Chad: Is this our plan to be the keynote? [53:16] JD: It's going to be news to Lisa Allen, but I feel like with the comment nice, I'm taking that as approval. We're going next year with the wealth at Work 2023 Fashion Awards, and we're going to get it a little better. Okay, Chad Bar champion. [53:31] Chad: My vote to be present to win. Mike. [53:33] JD: My vote is going to go for David K. And that is because. Not because he works for a census, because I could give a fuck about a census, but because he said, Justin seems like someone who'd have a severed foot in his freezer. That one hit home for me. [53:49] Mark: I don't know, but I like it. [53:53] JD: So I'm going with David K. Justin, I'm guessing you're back on that one, [53:59] Chad: that mine's two parts, so we need to actually respond to her because she's asked like 10 times. My vote's for Sherry. She wants to know the. The dog's name. [54:12] JD: Oh, the dog's name is Shelby Thomas. [54:16] Mark: Shelby. [54:16] JD: Shelby. Yeah. I had a little Peaky Blinders vibe to it, and then it's got a little car vibe to it. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I tried To. I wanted it to be named Rishi, but my wife wouldn't. Wasn't into it. Chad, your vote? [54:31] Mark: Tell you about my best friend. I had some trouble with this one tonight because I feel like there's a ton of activity. There were some good comments, but there were some weak performances tonight for me. It was either it was Hackler or Sherry, and I'm going Sherry as well. [54:49] JD: Okay, sounds good. So it's, it's a head to head battle. Am I right? Sherry versus David Hack. [54:57] Mark: You shouldn't have been so mean to Samson, otherwise you might have gotten it. And Samson, you shouldn't have been so mean to Hackler, otherwise you might have gotten it. [55:06] JD: Wow. You're. You're penalizing people for being hostile in the chat bar. [55:10] Mark: We don't like to see knock down drag outs in the chat bar. Only against you. Jd. [55:14] JD: I. I'm gonna counter that. I'd love to see the chat bar get fired up and when things go awry, that's a good sign. You know, push it, people. Push it. See if you can get canceled in there. Okay. I'll just get along. It's pretty. It's not very head to head. Yeah, it just. We already. We're all living in Sherry's world. Sherry Fitz is like, she knows how to. She knows how to be unforgettable. Did I get her word right? Is that it? [55:41] Mark: Turn your head. [55:42] JD: So unforgettable. I get that right? Oh, nice. [55:44] Mark: Dylan's Lightning Strikes. Very cool show the other side, buddy. [55:49] JD: Yeah, very cool. I get really nervous when kids are on the show because I know I'm gonna swear they can't hear anything. The winner is Sherry Fitz. So she's back to back winner of the inaugural 2022 well Fit Work Fashion Awards and chat bar champion. For tonight's show, I promise not to send you McDonald's next week, Sherry. Next week we will be performing live on stage from Washington D.C. at the AIG conference, which is now the Core Bridge Conference. I'll drink for that. [56:30] Mark: But I think so stands for, to [56:32] Chad: be honest with you. Hold on. [56:34] Mark: Insurance Group. It's got to be like American, American International Group. [56:37] JD: But they've spun off their retirement dealio and now it's called Core Bridge. And we will be there doing a live show. Here's the deal, guys. I think this would be fun. We've done this one time before. Brandon's going to record the show, then we're going to run back to our hotel room. He's got to. He's got to render It. Line up the audio. He's got to work pretty hard. Just so you know, this doesn't happen easy. So we should all be appreciative of Brandon's hard work. And Samara backs him up on the audio and then we will stream it at the regular, you know, same bat channel, same bat time next Thursday. But then I think Brandon can throw us in a little window and we can kind of watch it with you all and actually be really active in the chat bar and kind of talk to you. What hotel? We are at the. It's called the Hotel Washington. [57:33] Chad: I'm getting that right where the conference is at too. [57:35] JD: Yeah, yeah. It's right across from the. From the White House. Right. [57:41] Mark: This will be the first time I've heard what hotel I'm staying in. So I'm going to go put that in my calendar. [57:46] JD: It's posh, bro. It's super posh. [57:49] Mark: I wanted to. I want to do some of the nerdy touring of D.C. dang it, J.D. yeah, I've not seen that. City. [57:59] JD: Hotel Washington. Hotel Washington. [58:00] Chad: You tell Mark to get his. His scooter skills in check. Chat. [58:05] Mark: I did tell him. He laughed. That was really funny, Justin. [58:08] JD: And shoot. Our. Our guest for that show. Come on. J.D. is going to be executive at Corebridge. He. His name is Scott Rami. R A M E Y and he was. If anybody knows, he was at Nationwide for a while and before that he was at Transamerica. Anyone out there in the chat bar knows Scott Rami. He's now the new business strategy and acquisition person at. Yes. The new Core Bridge. Anyway, so he'll be our guest. We'll be doing that. Okay. That's what's happening next week. So yes, we will. We'll be having a show. We'll see you on Thursday night. Thank you to Justin and Mark for preparing on the headlines. I will send those next. [58:58] Chad: Thank you for sending those out not two hours before the conference or. [59:01] JD: Chad, I'd like to thank you, but you completely missed everything Jeff Atchison was trying to say about non quality. God, I love you. I love you. I like that shirt too. That's. That's. You're certain? That's fashion forward. [59:17] Mark: Oh, goodness. [59:18] JD: Little long sleeve with a pocket. No, for real. Is that like a tan? Is that a tan color? [59:23] Mark: It is. It's like. [59:24] JD: Yeah. [59:25] Mark: Hey, bro. Color. You're. [59:27] JD: That's legit. That's looking good. He's bringing sexy back. Atchison. He is. Even though he doesn't understand non qualified deferred comp. And help can help succession plans. He's got this. He's got the fashion going. Thanks to all you out there for tuning in on another Thursday night. You know, we love you for that. Thanks to all the people at wealth at Work that came up and said hi and hung out with us and got your flamingo swag if you're able to get your hands on that. We appreciate that. And thanks to. Yeah, hey, Bryant, Lester, Lisa, Allen, everyone that busted their ass at Wolf at work. Big thanks to you for doing that. [1:00:08] Mark: Yeah, big thank you. [1:00:09] JD: You know, when we were leaving, we had to store all our gear, and we have a lot of gear for the show. And they allowed us to piggyback in their little storage room. And then when Brandon and I drove over to pick it all up and put it in my truck, Bryant and Trey wheeled it out to us on a big. They had loaded all of our shit onto a thing. Yeah, those are good people. Those are very nice good people and friends for life. Okay, before I start crying, let's play a song. You get the fuck out of here. Thanks for tuning in, everybody. It's been another episode of you know what? [1:00:57] Chad: Finally a song I can get on board with [1:01:01] JD: Sam.