Pooled Plans, Fiduciary Conflicts & TPA Disruption

[0:06] Justin: Let me up, let me up or [0:08] JD: you're gonna have a real bad. You're gonna have a really, really bad time, sir. [0:16] Melissa Dorito: Hit me up. Hit me up. You're gonna have a real bad time. [0:20] JD: Welcome, everybody, to another show. We are the Retireaholics. I am here with silent J. Justin McNeil, the shiniest head in all of 401K. And Chad. Nerdy Chad will be here in a little bit. Don't you fret. Don't be sad. He's coming. He's gonna be here. [0:41] Mark: Invisible Chad is here. Invisible Chad, yes. [0:44] JD: But he will be here. And then, you know everybody's favorite retireholic guy. You know, when you got a dope guest, you got to respect it. And you got to bring a new song to the table, if you feel me. So, everybody, I've written a song. Brandon, real quick. I turn it to the half kind of cloud thing and then I go to original sound on. Let me ask you guys. Give me a thumbs up if you can. Let's do a little tester real quick, if we could. Can you hear this background music? Okay, it's coming. Hang on. What do you say? Can you hear that? [1:41] Justin: Yep. Kind of. Kind of greatest, but no. [1:44] Mark: Yes, I can hear it. [1:45] Melissa Dorito: Yes. [1:45] JD: I'll boom it up a little bit. Okay. All right, here we. I'm nervous. Here we go. His name is Fred, I have a dream about him. He rings my bell. He's bigger, oh, how he rocks and a suit and dress socks. But he doesn't know who I am and he doesn't give a damn about me. Cause he's motherfucking Fred Reese, baby. Yeah, I'm just a mid sized TPA and he does. Oh, listen to Izzo's podcast, Bab Me. His friend has wit and he writes so very cool he'd simply quit. Pool plans, this one. Stop it. God damn it. Stop that song. [3:19] Melissa Dorito: Oh, no. [3:24] JD: Dang it. I had the second part popping off and I blew it. I blew it. Let's move on. [3:33] Justin: Justin, you know, I don't normally say this and give you. Give you props, but that was impressive, pal. I like. [3:38] JD: Oh, God, if you could have heard the second verses, man. I had. I had some sick going down about [3:44] Mark: Mr. Why don't we end the show with your. [3:47] JD: We'll try it again. Okay, we'll try it again. We'll try it again. Justin. Yes? [3:52] Justin: Do you go into the solo part? [3:54] JD: No, no, no, no. I don't go that far. You can't go. I mean, I can't keep going, man. Anyways, I can't keep going. Oh, you know when he goes like super high and. Yeah, that guy's gnarly. I thought that was a chick for the longest time. That's a dude. Okay, let's. Let's go to the part of the show where we intro the guest, Justin Silent J. Take it away, take it away, take it away. [4:14] Justin: Our guest joins us today from the home of gumbo, Bubba Gump Shrimp and Mardi Gras. She's done everything from teach high school math, intern as a pension administrator, to being an entrepreneur and professional speaker where she teaches people how to chill the f out and say no with confidence. Which to Brandon's point earlier, she failed miserably at when JD asked her to be a guest. She's a partner at Sentinel Pension and heir to the Doritos Corporation. Please welcome Melissa Dorito. [4:39] JD: Yay. I don't normally do this, Melissa, but I want to do it. I want to do it today. I want to start with your story. I always thought that's kind of cheesy to like, okay, tell us about, you know, how you got into 401k or whatever. Finally, finally, to me it makes a little sense. So everyone kind of hears your little path you had here because as Justin said, you were teaching. Then I saw you like as an intern at a retirement plan shop. Then you became like an administrator. Now you're like, I won't say like an owner slash partner frickin thought leader of the industry. So take us through this evolution. [5:24] Melissa Dorito: Well, I had a career crisis at the age of 27 when I was teaching high school math. And I realized there's absolutely no way I could do that. [5:32] JD: At least you had a career at 27. I was sleeping in a closet somewhere, I think, but go on. [5:37] Melissa Dorito: Okay. So I decided to go back to LSU here in Baton Rouge and pursue my CPA licen, not knowing about the TPA world whatsoever, so. Oh my goodness, here I go. [5:52] Justin: That's three. [5:56] Melissa Dorito: So do I have to drink? Is that how this works? [5:58] JD: Finish your thought, you take a little sip of your martini. Little, little step, just a. And you, you. [6:04] Melissa Dorito: I mean, I'm a rule follower, so I'll follow the rules. [6:06] JD: Oh, yeah, you got to. And then if you're in the middle of a thought and it goes, you can continue your. Your thought and then just catch up on your drink. [6:16] Melissa Dorito: I'm like, what is he doing? I'm like, I just said a whole bunch of acronyms. [6:21] JD: Yeah, and you just cussed. Welcome to the show. Keep going. [6:24] Melissa Dorito: So again, I'M from Louisiana. You never know what. What comes out of my mouth, so. All right, so I was an. Started as an intern at my firm to go back to school and pursue my certified public accounting license. [6:43] JD: Nice. [6:44] Melissa Dorito: I catch one pretty quick. Hopefully. Let's see. Anyway, so started in the retirement area, not knowing what I was doing. And I had a really great mentor there who saw a lot of potential in me. I'm still at that firm. We just rebranded our TPA Third party administrator division. [7:06] JD: Almost a check swing. Not quite. [7:10] Melissa Dorito: I call myself in the middle. That doesn't count. [7:12] JD: This whole. [7:12] Mark: This whole three letters. Yeah. [7:16] Justin: If you would have been like TP like that, you would have been good. [7:19] Mark: This whole career, you don't just check swing out purposely, buddy. [7:23] JD: This whole career evolution all took place at the same firm. [7:27] Melissa Dorito: Yes, I needed a job. I was going back to college and I was desperate for a job. And they were like, what do you want to do? And I said, I'll make coffee. I don't really care. I just need a chance to do something different. I was looking to try to do something different. And this, I love this career, but. [7:46] JD: Yes. [7:47] Melissa Dorito: So I'm a partner. Equity shareholder. Sales. [7:51] JD: I mean, it's all. Yeah. What color is your Lambo? [7:58] Melissa Dorito: No, I'm. [7:59] JD: Nevermind. [8:02] Justin: JDC just called you. [8:03] JD: That makes. [8:04] Chad: Yeah. [8:04] JD: Oh. [8:05] Mark: What? [8:05] JD: Yeah. Well, as a typical owner of two Lambos, I wasn't even listening to what she was saying. Okay, let's move on. Anyways, what I have to tell you, what I said in the, in the email, which is very true, is when it became public that you're going to come on the show, I just got so many messages from little psycho fans of yours that were like stoked that you were going to be on the show. So you've got a little, little following of weirdos out there. So congrats to you. Okay, Brandon. Okay, Brandon, let's do headlines, pretty please. [8:47] Mark: Maybe, maybe not. [8:50] Melissa Dorito: You got a new computer. [8:51] JD: This might not go well. [8:52] Justin: Give me a second here. [8:58] Mark: It didn't go well, Brandon. All right, Headlines. [9:02] Justin: There you go. [9:03] JD: Thank you, Mark. Thank you. The first headline comes from. Geez, where does it come from? I just left the article. No, the. The Profit Sharing Council of America's website. And the title of the article is the Employee Benefits and Security administration loses over 20% of staff from Resignations. And let's be clear, these resignations are because of the. Ooh, Department of, Of. [9:50] Justin: Of Department of Oversight. Something. [9:54] JD: No, no, no. The what? No, no. Elon. Saying the Department of Oversight. Government. Okay. [10:01] Justin: So government efficiency. [10:03] JD: That's what it is, government efficiency. Like a lot of these government firms. My understanding is all these employees at the Employee Benefit Security Administration were given a chance to resign and be paid out to like September or something. But in the end of all this, about 200 of them left, which was the kind of original plan, and it used to run at 800 employees. So maybe I'm watching this, but I think they're at around 600 now, something to that effect. Last year, that association brought in $1.4 billion and collected revenue, you know, for cases and mistakes and penalties and things that are going out there. So my question to you all. We'll start with you, Melissa. When you hear about an association like the Employee Benefits and Security Administration being downsized, do you care? Are you worried? Does this bother you? Like, what say you? [11:02] Melissa Dorito: It doesn't really fire an alarm for me personally. I mean, a couple of years ago, I felt like it was opposite with the Internal Revenue Service. And they hired, we were told, right, going to hire a thousand new investigators, and all of these plans were going to have an audit. And I think they just hired them to work from home or something. I'm not really sure. So we didn't really feel that. [11:31] JD: And by the way, they're probably getting the same type of cuts there now. So these are all getting downsized. I'm kind of with you, Chapar. You tell me. Someone give us a different opinion. I kind of feel like, okay, like, who cares? You know? Like now might you say that bad people will get away with bad things in retirement plans more because there's less oversight on them? Okay, maybe. I don't know if that's really true. If we're not going to get that 1.4 billion, I don't want to get political now, but. And that number goes down because they're less staffed. I guess I could see how that's like a monetary problem, not generating that revenue. But I'm kind of. I think I asked you guys a few weeks ago if I told you the IRS was going to have less people so they could. Oh, so they could go and see. [12:20] Melissa Dorito: I didn't even say it. [12:21] JD: Yeah, I could. And investigate less on people and their tech. I think most general people would be like, great, good, fuck them. Like, I like that there's less of them. So I'm just curious if people feel. Mark, you don't feel that way. You want more Internal Revenue Service agents? Is that what you want? [12:39] Mark: I've always said this. I don't want people to lose their jobs like that. Just common sense, right? Like, I don't feel good about that. But to Melissa's point earlier, I'm a rule follower, too. So I file my taxes correctly. I file them on time. So I'm not the one worried about that ever. Anyways, so if there's less people getting other people in trouble who are supposed to be getting in trouble, then don't [13:09] JD: let them go away. Screw the people who don't follow rules, [13:13] Mark: because I follow them. So, no. [13:16] JD: Well, hopefully we'll get Daniel Aronowitz on this show sometime in the future and we can talk a little more about it. But I just want to bring that up because it's very relevant to our industry. And I think it's interesting when Elon's Department of Government Efficiency kind of Venn diagrams into our very own industry, it's. It's something to talk about. Let's go to another big news that was out there. Pentagra and their multiple employer plan, which I believe was a multiple employer plan for a bunch of regional banks. It was like, it's a fairly large plan, like two. Two something billion. And yeah, the courts. The judge came down and. And they have to pay. Is it $39 million in a judgment. And guess who their attorney was that got that win. The boogeyman. Yeah, Schlichter on the winning team of another one of these. So he. How much does Schlichter take of that 39 million? Like 38 of it or something. I don't know. I'm kidding. Well, I'm curious. [14:23] Mark: Like in that article you see, they're like. They were spending it on luxury hotels. [14:29] JD: That was a line, but I'm just [14:32] Mark: saying, like, yeah, why pull that? Like, what did we. [14:36] JD: Mark, if. If I got to go to a client's fiduciary review meeting, I'm staying at the Ritz. And they're paying for it, bro, like, I don't know what you're talking about. No. Yeah, that was the lineup. [14:45] Mark: Their definition of luxury, too. [14:48] JD: Oh, good call. [14:48] Justin: What? I said, I think I thought I heard Melissa say she actually followed this. Is that what I heard or no? [14:53] Melissa Dorito: Well, I heard about it last week because I work with an attorney, actually, jd, you know that attorney that I work with? [15:03] JD: Oh, yes, yes, we love her. [15:05] Melissa Dorito: Yes, I do, too. And she had. We had a few. I have a client here in Baton Rouge that had acquired a couple of banks that were in that multiple employer plan. [15:18] JD: Okay. Wow. [15:19] Melissa Dorito: Worked with Pentegra. And it was the biggest effing I don't know if I can say that word. [15:26] Mark: Oh, yeah, please. [15:27] Melissa Dorito: It was the biggest gluster, to be honest. It wasn't. Our experience had nothing to do with fees. I just felt like they're didn't want to let go of those assets. It was very weird. [15:40] JD: Yeah, well, let's, let's talk about that a little bit. I don't spend a ton of time on this, but the court found that there were several fiduciary breaches. Some self dealing, some fees being too high, some conflict of interest. And what's funny is that everyone, if you want, like go to Pentegra's website right now and on their home page it says Pentegra is a different kind of retirement provider. That's because we're a fiduciary first. And I'm thinking, okay, well, might not want to lead with that one when you're struggling in that space, but can I open this up for conversation and chat bar? Let me know how you, what you think. But, oh, first of all, I think this is the biggest judgment ever and there's a second phase coming. So, Melissa, those clients you have, apparently there's a second phase where they're going to be going after like $160 million in further damages. So. So the story is still unfolding here, but what I want to talk about is we've been talking about this for quite some time. I am. Isn't it obvious, like how the are these pooled employer plans slash multiple employer plans? And I'm very calm today, people. I'm not going to go off on a, on a rant, going to actually be a pooled plan provider and then play a vendor role or several vendor roles, being the administrator or the record keeper or the 316 or whatever, all at the same time. It baffles me. And every time I've heard it from these different pooled employer plan solutions out there, I just feel like that is a conflict of interest waiting to happen. Like someone's going to get their hands on this. And sure enough, I think Schlichter agrees with me and thinks this is crazy stuff. So, Melissa, does that make sense what I'm saying? Because I feel like 90% of these pooled employer plans are just like a conflict of interest all over the place. [17:39] Melissa Dorito: I've always felt like that. I am not an attorney and that never went to law school, but I have always actually felt like that. It's always been very sketchy. I don't know, like, I just feel it's just a Weird situation. I just, I don't know. I don't really agree with it. [17:55] JD: I don't know if the sensor is saying this, but maybe I think he is. Which I think is the right counter to this is procedural and substantive prudence. Like I, I guess if, if you have what appears to be conflict of interest but you can somehow show that it's not and everything's being run prudently. But then I think, okay, you'll probably survive. But I keep saying, but why would we put ourselves in that position in the first place? I think the original concept and we'll move on of a pooled plan provider. If you ask Congress like what's a pooled plan provider? They would say to you, oh, it's like this independent watchdog type firm that's going to take the main fiduciary responsibility and make sure that this pooled employer plan is being run correctly. But the fact of the matter is in the real world, this pooled plan provider is just one of the vendors that's doing record keeping or 316 and how on earth are they going to actually execute on that role? So I say good for this lawsuit. I like to see this next kind of discussion I'd like to have. I'm going to call this almost like a product update. There's several products that have some updates and we're going to go through these quickly. The, the first one is a, is a fund investment thing. There's an article out there where Empower now is offering a zero fee fund, no expense ratio, zip, nada, nothing for a Standard and Poor's 500 index fund. I'm gonna go to Melissa here, but I say wow, Just wow. Like, I don't know, I love to on stuff and tear it down. But what's your thought here? This is all good, isn't it? [19:40] Melissa Dorito: What's my thought? Yeah, I don't think anything's free. [19:45] JD: Oh, well, you know that blackrock has a role in this. Like somehow blackrock's doing it. [19:49] Mark: They're the sub advisor. [19:50] JD: Yeah, yeah, but Melissa, no, this thing can be free if they've somehow convinced themselves that it'll draw in so much business that you know, they'll make it on their other fees. Right. Whatever wrap fees they have or whatever. But, but to, let's be frank, to put an investment on a lineup that has no expense ratio. This is nothing I've seen before in the 401k Space Fidelity. [20:15] Melissa Dorito: Yeah, I would need more information. I read that article as well and it sounded to me it was more of an asset based fee and I, I, maybe I just didn't get far enough about the expense ratio. [20:29] JD: You just don't believe it. You think it's, you think they should. [20:32] Melissa Dorito: I'm always, I'm always skeptical. [20:35] Mark: I, I want to believe these things too. And I first read, I tried to not take the skepticism route but all I could think was great, yeah, you could offer free investments to everybody. That doesn't mean the record keeper is not going to charge 30 basis points more to recover like lost, caught, you know, and pay it out other way. So what I want to say because I know we get a lot of flack on the show and emails and calls the next day is like, love it. I think it's great. But we need more information because an article and five or six things that, you know, go out, press releases don't share the full story and we can't give a full, yeah, detailed thought until we know everything. [21:13] JD: Go ahead, Melissa. [21:14] Melissa Dorito: Okay. I'm just saying this is the way that I feel if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. [21:20] JD: I'm gonna, I'm gonna challenge you on this. I, based on what I know of our industry and, and how revenue is generated, I think this could be true. I think it can be what it sounds like. I think the people at Empire and I don't usually jump on the side of the record keepers like this. I think they could be saying, this is really sexy. Let's put an investment and standard and poor 500 index on a menu for our retirement plans and give it a zero expense ratio, meaning we will not make money on this. Nor do I think BlackRock's going to make any money on this. But what we're going to do is that's going to drive business our way. It's going to get our name out there. It's going to be something really cool and different. And to your point, of course, it's not like this is one fund on a menu. Of course they're still making money. You know, they're still charged. And by the way, no one's saying that you don't have a wrap fee or you don't have a per head charge, you don't have whatever. But I disagree with Mark. I don't think they're sitting there going, let's up our fees to cover it. [22:19] Mark: I never said they're gonna up them. I'm just saying it's, it's one, it's one area. You lose it, you, you make it up over here. [22:27] Justin: Right. [22:27] JD: They might have net net. [22:28] Mark: I believe this is a. Yeah, no, something like that. [22:31] Chad: Right. [22:32] JD: Say that again, Justin. [22:33] Justin: It could be something like they have a requirement like you got to use this stable value or this list, you know, this PDF or whatnot. [22:39] Mark: Right. [22:39] JD: Okay to get this. Okay to get this investment. [22:42] Justin: But you know, I think the sensor. [22:47] Mark: Justin, I'm bringing you up but I can't get my buttons. [22:50] Justin: What'd I say? Thank you. Anyways, they said yeah or jd, they agree that hey, you're going to capture a lot of rollovers and stuff and yeah, they'll make for their money elsewhere. [23:00] Melissa Dorito: I mean, maybe they have a great. Maybe it's a great idea. I just don't believe it quite yet. I need more information. [23:05] JD: Justin might have nailed it there that if there was a dirty thing at play here, it would be something like what he just mentioned. [23:12] Mark: And we're not saying there is. [23:13] JD: No, no, I know, I know. [23:16] Melissa Dorito: It's speculation. [23:18] JD: I'm. Hey, for the first time ever, I. I think empower send me a nice email tomorrow. I'm backing you guys on this one. I'm backing you guys on this one. Before we go to the. I got three more that are all have to do with like partnerships which I think is an interesting trend in our industry right now. A lot of partnerships are happening and I want you guys take. But before we do that, let's spin the wheel of ice and if it lands on Chad, I will gladly drink for. For nerdy chat. Spin the wheel, Brandon, if you can. All right, Robin, enjoy your smearn off ice. Melissa. Human Interest has a new product enhancement and Human Interest, they call it Partner Connect and let's see. I. Yeah, here we go. I want to make sure I get this right from the article. If you go to their website. Dang it. Jd. [24:24] Melissa Dorito: Jd haven't you done this show before? Like for. [24:26] JD: Yeah, you know, when I struggle is to go look at these stupid articles. Like if I. If I just go. [24:30] Justin: You're welcome back any week you want to be here. [24:34] Melissa Dorito: I didn't think it was your first show. I just wanted to verify that. [24:38] JD: Human Interest Big Disruptor says quote from this article, the platform targeted to retirement plan advisors and wealth advisors allows advisors the ability to view and manage clients on one platform and integrates plan design, proposal management, fund lineup and participant data. Here I go. Anomalous being the. Isn't that what all record keepers do is offer advisors a dashboard to look at their clients and see the participant data and see it all in one place. Like this Human Interest had just not been doing this for the last seven years and now they've finally had to do it. And this is some type of product enhancement. Like I thought that's what record keepers do. Am I being weird? [25:29] Melissa Dorito: No. Do you want to know my opinion on human interest? [25:34] JD: Yeah. Or human interest in general? You want to just go wild? Go, yeah, sure, fine. [25:39] Melissa Dorito: Because that, this is cute. I think it's a marketing type ploy or something. I don't know. I feel like they're really good at marketing. Like they're real good at marketing and coming in, or at least in my area, they're real good at marketing. But I cannot imagine that they actually do a good job. [26:01] JD: That they actually do a good job. [26:03] Melissa Dorito: I just don't. I mean, the people I've interacted with from there don't seem to know. Don't seem to know that much about retirement plans. [26:15] JD: Right. So catch me outside. [26:16] Melissa Dorito: How about that? [26:18] JD: This is very true. Especially in the beginning stages guidelines. Human Interest had very few people at those places that really knew our industry and knew the intricacies of it and how it all worked. I think over time they've realized that they need to get some of those people in their staff. But you know, when they built this stuff, Melissa, and we've had the founder of Guideline, Kevin on this show. In the beginning when they built it, they thought they could code it and build it with technology and it would all just work without any human interface. They had this weird fallacy that no clients would call them with questions. And when the email started buzzing and the phone started ringing, they quickly figured out, oh, like we're in trouble here. And they've since have added staff. But you're right, a lot of them are maybe not nearly as experienced as say, a very capable third party administrator in some local region. But let me ask you this guideline. Last year, Human Interest's little twin brother there did 15,000 new plans. And Human Interest is right there with them, I think behind them just a little bit, but north of 10,000 a year. So I kind of feel like the last laugh is on me and you, Melissa. As third party administrators, they are kicking the snot out of us in terms of selling new plans and generating revenue. So who has the better business model? Me and you or them? I. I'm not so certain we would win that argument. [27:50] Melissa Dorito: This is my favorite thing to talk about and number of plans. I just talked about this at the conference I went to. I am going to just say this and actually whoever respond, oh, it's Mark. You told me my martini choice was bold. And I'm also told that I'm a very bold person. I am not like number of plans. That's great. I mean, good for. Good for somebody who can go and sell a bunch of plans. For me as a business owner, I'm worried about growing my bottom line and I can do that very successfully without having 10,000 plans and a lot of staff. [28:23] JD: Okay, so let's move the plans out of it. I think they're at. God, what's their revenue? Damn it. I think they. I wish I had those numbers. I did. [28:30] Melissa Dorito: Revenue is a top line number. I don't want. Do we know what their profitable are? [28:35] Justin: That's always been your argument. [28:37] JD: You should have been on some old shows with us. This is where Chad and I have been trying to kind of scream to anyone who will listen over the last few years is if do the math, we don't see how they're profitable. And I will tell you that Kevin did a post on LinkedIn a couple months ago talking about all this growth they had in 2024 guideline and said that they are now profitable was one of the bullet points. So. So they have just, you know, eeked into profitability. So I think you're not too far away from the truth, Melissa, and that there's a lot of venture capital money, there's a lot of private equity money that's keeping this thing afloat. I know human interest we've kind of diverted to guideline here. My fault. But human interest hired people by the hundreds every month, you know, and open new offices, beautiful offices and play. They're spending a lot of cash. So I think you are right. I don't think these companies are actually turning a massive profit yet. So. Well, well said, you know. [29:32] Melissa Dorito: And when someone says they're profitable, is that like a 5% margin? A 30? [29:38] JD: Yeah, it could be. It could be a couple bucks to be. [29:42] Melissa Dorito: We're in the, you know, we're in the black by like $10. I mean, I'm not trying to be. Look to their credit, they have gotten some really big plans here in Baton Rouge and I'm like, good on them for them being able to do that. But maybe I'm overconfident in my abilities. I feel like, I feel like I'll get a call at some point that those plans are messed up. [29:59] JD: You know, Where I think, where I think they win and we lose is like. I remember having this debate with Kevin of Guideline. He was kind of very politely like, Shaking his head at me like I just didn't get it. And I think he was right. What I don't get is these Silicon Valley types who've done this. I think what they're trying to do is build something in a space that they think they can and grow scale, like get a lot, which they've clearly checked those two boxes. [30:27] Melissa Dorito: Yeah. [30:28] JD: And then they package it up and they create what's called an exit plan and they sell it to someone else and they make a shit ton of money and, and they go, you know, hang out in Tahiti for a couple of years and sip on their, their pina coladas. So I, I think the people who start these things probably will laugh at you and I, Melissa, in terms of how we run our little businesses and scurry together our little profits when they're going to just crush it. But I guess you and I sit here and say, yeah, but the integrity of which you do the job is, is subpar. And that has negative ramifications for our industry. And so sometimes I get upset that you all build this up and then sell it. And then we got to deal with all the, the aftermath, the damage of it all that you did in your, your quick grab for, for cash and millions of dollars. But whatever. [31:19] Justin: I would trade somebody in the, in the chat bar, I can't remember who said it, but there's, there's no more God damn it, EVSA to audit the plan, so who cares? [31:29] JD: Come on. [31:30] Melissa Dorito: Saying that I'll get a plan that's messed up because it, at some point somebody finds out that it's messed up, a new advisor comes, something happens, we get, we have clients come to us all the time that their plans are just completely messed up and they've. Normally they're with a low cost service provider. Right. [31:49] JD: I was gonna say what did you. Couldn't you pretty much put in automatic data processing and paychecks into the same conversation and just plug their names in there? [32:00] Melissa Dorito: Sure. [32:00] JD: Right. [32:01] Melissa Dorito: And then say I'm killing it on the acronym thing. [32:04] JD: Good. [32:05] Mark: Not at the start, but yes, you are now. [32:08] JD: Yeah, I honestly, someday I want to. I used to come back to this subject a lot back in the day, and Mark would get mad at me, but I just feel like there's a lot here to talk about. We'll move on today, but to me it's really interesting. I never would have thought. I'm sure you can find a clip from me on the show saying there's no way that guideline and human interest are going to Sell all the plans they think they're going to sell. [32:30] Mark: And I said that for years. [32:32] JD: Yeah. And I was wrong. They proved me wrong. [32:34] Melissa Dorito: No, I see. I feel like they're very good at selling something. I mean that's, that's where I'm not as good at them because I'm also not going to make promises that I can't keep. [32:45] JD: Yeah, see, you nailed it, Melissa. If you want to be a good salesperson, you got to learn to fucking lie. [32:52] Melissa Dorito: I do. Damn. [32:53] JD: Sorry. [32:53] Justin: I mean Mark. [32:56] Mark: No, I, you know, I can't lie. My face doesn't allow me. [32:59] Justin: That is the best part of you. [33:01] Mark: The, the that whole conversation though. I always go a different direction because here you're coming from as business owners and thinking long term. But all I can say as a person out there, you know, like they have provided this shake up enough to where it's created even legacy providers and required people to up their game a little bit into to do more and to offer more and to. It's again, I, I look at it as a good thing and yeah, maybe sometimes we get calls where the service isn't as good or whatever, but hey, others are flipping the direction if they want something cool, hip, techie and all that too. So they're, they're obviously doing something right. And I don't them for them. [33:44] JD: I think Melissa nailed a bigger, deeper truth though, that there, I said lie. That's, that's an exaggeration. I wouldn't say that they're like lying but, but they know how to kind of manipulate the truth a little bit and put bullet points on what their values are like what they offer. And clients eat it up. So they're big on. Right. Like oh, this will be a piece of cake, right. This can be very easy. We're going to sink into your payroll. You will basically have to do nothing. [34:10] Melissa Dorito: Nothing. You don't have to do anything. [34:12] JD: That's very sexy to someone who hears that. They also say that you will have no responsibilities. They're going to take that off the plate for you. So, so your fiduciary responsibility will go away. They talk about using technology to make things quick and efficient and they talk about low cost, right? Like, oh well, the industry is ripping you off, the legacy industry is ripping you off and our fees are going to be far, far, far lower because we care about you. And that's a strong message. Like that's a powerful message that obviously tens of thousands of small businesses have said I'm choosing you over fidelity and empower and Voya, those guys. So I do think that to Mark's point, there is some good from this. And Melissa, like if I was in your shoes, I'd say you can learn from them to be a better seller without using their evil tactics. But start, myself included, start to learn more about what our clients want and try to create solutions for them. By the way, do you think TPAs could proudly say to clients, oh, dang it, all over the country that we're going to do, we're going to take a lot of the work off your plate. That's what third prime ministers do. They take work off of the client's plate. They do work for them. They take responsibility for their clients to know when the deadlines are and to hit the deadlines and to make sure the data is accurate. I would imagine a lot of third party administrators are almost like little mini 3 16s in the way they do business. They should market it that way. [35:46] Melissa Dorito: Okay, so here's, here's my counter argument to what you're saying that yes, they're selling something that says, I'm super, like this is super easy. But what happens sometimes, or what I see is when they say it's easy and you don't have to do anything, and then all of a sudden the plan sponsor quickly figures out, oh, I do have to be somewhat involved. You mean I have to do this? That's not what we were sold at the front. So that's why I can go and I can get business. But I also don't want somebody to be pissed at me the next year when I'm asking for their census data and shit and they're like, oh, what do you mean? I have to give you all of this? [36:25] JD: So choose. Just got to choose your words carefully, man. Use a little bit of their slickness. But, but at the same time, have some integrity and honesty. And by the way, the whole payroll thing, we won't go into it today, although. Yeah, let's, let's talk about, we'll talk about payroll integrations as our next subject. So I'll kind of lean into this one. Third party administrators all over the country could tell the same story that human interests and guideline have told for the last 5, 7 years by partnering with companies like Finch and Payroll Integrations. So I think as a, not to make this a whole third party administrator show, but I think there's ways for the third party administrator community to really like learn from their success and kind of tap into a little bit of it. I think I agree with payroll integrations is partnering with. I'll just drink for this one. Ukg. I have no idea. [37:16] Melissa Dorito: I don't know what that even. I mean, I've heard. [37:18] JD: Okay, well, I'll, I'll tell you the, the company that I just mentioned is Massive Company. [37:27] Melissa Dorito: I don't know what it actually stands for. I wouldn't, I'd have to use the acronym as well. [37:30] JD: Yeah, yeah, I have no idea. I think it's some like European, European names or something like that, but they're huge. And so what does payroll integrations do? I think this is pretty simple headline here. They try to partner with a lot of payroll companies to. So they can layer their technology on it and be the in between. Between the 401k plan and everything that needs to happen there and the, and the payroll company. And now they've, you know, bridged a partnership with a massive company that's in payroll and benefits. I don't think there's much more to this except for good for them. But Melissa, while I'm on it, what do you think about third party administrators. Sorry everybody. And, and leveraging some of these, these tools like payroll integrations and getting to a spot where maybe we stop collecting census in the old fashioned way? [38:21] Melissa Dorito: Oh, I think that's a win win for everyone if it works, to be quite honest. I mean we. Right now, I'm sure others do this. If we can get access to somebody's payroll system, we'll p ourselves. They have to take a look at it. I mean, if we have any questions. But yeah, I think, I think it's a win win and I think that you can charge for it as well. [38:43] JD: Well, there you go. Charge for it, huh? [38:46] Melissa Dorito: I like, I like to get paid and be pro. Make money. [38:49] JD: I mean, to each their own, man. A little quick highlight on Kevin at Guideline. I was stalking him the other day and I was on his Facebook account and it looks like he's living in Mexico somewh. Kevin, if you're living, if you're listening in like touch base with me, bro. Are you, are you taking all your millions and you're just chilling in Mexico? Let's play a game. Melissa. A long time ago I was sitting around thinking of what could be some fun games we could play on this show. And I had an epiphany of this game. And so it's, it's totally created by me, it's totally original and I didn't steal it from anyone. And it's called the Noer dope game. It's called a Nope. Listen, when I made up this game, I also made up several rules. We will always start with you. And how this. Yeah. How this works is I'm going to give you, like, a pop culture type of thing, and you're going to let me know if it's dope or. Nope. And then you're gonna tell me why you're either for or against this thing. The first one. These are not very good today, people. I'm running out of options here. But this one's kind of a. This doesn't have to be a male thing. I won't give you my opinion. You let. You give us yours. Buttoning the top button of your shirt. You know, we just did this one. It did? Yeah. Oh, my God. Was that the. Was that the. That the night I was trying. [40:30] Mark: Hey, Melissa, are you looking for, like, a host gig anytime soon for this show that we've been doing for ten and a half? [40:36] JD: Okay, let's. Let's skip the top button then. Let's go with a doozy. This one's a good one. Melissa, how do you feel about Kraft parmesan cheese? You know, in a little green container, you shake it out. [40:50] Mark: You've really lost a step, buddy. [40:52] JD: You're. You're dope on that. And why, like, what do you put it on? Why do you like it? You like the flavor? Tell us about it. [40:57] Melissa Dorito: It's easy. And I put it on pasta, and it tastes good. [41:00] JD: Just pasta? [41:01] Justin: I mean, what else do you put it on? [41:04] Melissa Dorito: No. [41:06] Mark: Pizza sometimes. [41:07] JD: Melissa, why not go to the store and buy a nice block of parmesan cheese and then shred it yourself? [41:12] Melissa Dorito: Because I don't like to cook [41:17] JD: when [41:17] Melissa Dorito: it starts to take too much. [41:19] Justin: She's just right back at you the whole night. I'm digging it. [41:22] Mark: Okay, so good. [41:24] JD: Yeah, I. I look. [41:26] Mark: Said Kraft parmesan cheese, and he's like, I need the most expensive block. He's the one who gets the big wheel of it, you know, and goes home and sets it on fire. [41:37] Melissa Dorito: Those people that like to do all that stuff from scratch, that is not. That is not Melissa Torito. [41:43] JD: Okay? We're getting to know. We're getting to know you. That's a benefit. [41:46] Justin: I don't disagree, but I would agree with Sherry. Fresh parm. [41:49] Mark: Oh, fantastic. [41:51] Melissa Dorito: Go to a restaurant. I'm not going to do it myself. I'm not saying I don't like it. I'm just not going to do the work for it. [41:56] JD: So I have a. I have a friend who says when they come to your table, and they grate it right over your. Your bowl or your plate. And she says, if it was really up to me, I would just never tell them to stop. Like, just, just keep putting there. And she goes. And she goes. But I have this guilty moment where I'm like, when do I have to tell them? Because I just want to keep going. [42:13] Melissa Dorito: When are they going to charge me for that cheese? [42:16] JD: No, they won't charge you unless they're, Unless they're you because you like to make your money. I mean, it was my birthday the other day. Oh, thank you. And someone gave me a present. It was a flask. You know, a little metal flask you put alcohol in. [42:38] Mark: I personally was like, thanks for mansplaining what a flask is, but I've never [42:46] JD: owned a flask, and I feel like when I see someone pull out a flask, that seems to me like a sign you've gone too far with your love of alcohol. Melissa, how do you feel about people that have their very own flask? [43:00] Melissa Dorito: Wait, you have a show called Retireaholics, and because someone has a flask, they're too far with their love of alcohol? [43:06] JD: Seems like it seems like we got [43:08] Mark: sent flasks by Amanda. [43:15] Melissa Dorito: Yeah, Louisiana. We had to. [43:19] JD: Amanda loves that. [43:22] Melissa Dorito: I mean, I'm fine with that. We used to use that. We used to have to sneak them into the. [43:26] Mark: There it is. [43:27] JD: There. [43:27] Melissa Dorito: Yes. We used to have to sneak them into the football stadium when we, when they didn't serve alcohol in football. [43:32] JD: Are you talking about being a parent and going to your child's football game with a flask of. [43:37] Melissa Dorito: And have kids, so it doesn't matter. [43:39] JD: Oh, okay. [43:40] Mark: I, I, I feel like I've used water bottles with vodka in it far more than an actual flask, which makes it even worse, probably. But the, the flasks are generally usable in certain scenarios. But I feel like if someone just randomly pulls one, like if you're at the grocery store, right. And you're walking down the aisle and someone just. You're like, all right, maybe that's going a little too far. But if you're like. [44:06] JD: But if you're, like, driving down the highway or something, that's totally. [44:09] Mark: No, that's fine. [44:09] Melissa Dorito: A lot of context. You just said if someone has a flask. I mean. [44:13] JD: Yeah, I just. Personally, I appreciate the gift. I do not want to be a person that has my very own flask of, of booze that I carry around. So I, I don't know what I'm. [44:25] Justin: Who gave it to you? [44:26] JD: I don't do with it. The. God damn it. The MFS Defined Contribution Investment Only guy. Damn it. [44:35] Mark: Where are my buttons? [44:37] JD: Chris. Doniger. Doniger. Doniger, Doniger. Thank you, Chris. Okay, Melissa, the last one is a. Is a big one. It's very important to us here at Retireholics how you answer this question. How do you feel about seahorses? Nope. Or dope. [44:54] Mark: We're going back. [44:55] JD: Huh? [44:56] Justin: Wow. [45:00] Mark: Sorry. Melissa, really apologize. [45:03] JD: Yes. [45:03] Melissa Dorito: You see, at an aquarium. [45:07] JD: Are you for that? [45:09] Melissa Dorito: I feel like I'm being set up for failure. [45:14] Mark: You might be, I think unintentionally. Yes. [45:17] JD: What? The seahorse is a setup for failure. What? [45:22] Melissa Dorito: I mean, I would say this. I think they're kind of cute. [45:24] JD: I don't really think they're beautiful. What an amazing [45:29] Mark: alien creatures of all time. They. They should be removed from the ocean. [45:35] Justin: What is wrong with them? It's a horse that can breathe underwater. [45:41] Mark: The regular horses. I forgot about that last part. [45:46] JD: I mean, if you really think that [45:48] Mark: that should not exist in our world. [45:50] JD: That's weird. I think. Yeah, that. No, that's a. That is a weird thing. [45:56] Melissa Dorito: Kind of cool, but [46:00] Justin: I don't know why. That's what I see. [46:02] JD: No, they're. [46:03] Mark: Hummingbirds are beautiful. They're. [46:05] JD: They're cool. They're fast. [46:07] Mark: Theorists are trippy. [46:09] JD: Look at how fast that fiddles. [46:10] Justin: Just like a. The wing of. [46:12] Mark: What is the tail. [46:13] JD: You know what's weird about it? It doesn't even have like, hold on like fins or anything. It just kind of. [46:19] Mark: I think that is, you know what an octopus loses a tentacle. That's what it turns into. That's my guess now. [46:28] Melissa Dorito: Looked at you, Mark, and thought that you were an alien type looking thing. [46:31] JD: It. [46:31] Mark: For sure does. My kids think I'm an alien. So I get it. [46:36] JD: All right. Seahorses. She's dope on seahorses. Good. That's good to hear. Melissa, you were recently at the third party administrator benchmarks. Am I getting that right? Benchmarks, yeah. Conference. This is Dawn Hines, Right? Am I getting her name right? Dawn Hines. 1. What can you tell us about the conference in general? Was it a success? Was it good? Was it good people, good topics? [47:01] Melissa Dorito: Yes, Great people. And the. For the most part, the topics were really good. Every. Every session was a panel discussion, which. I like that. And there was a lot of talk about artificial intelligence. [47:15] JD: Oh, really? Okay, well, that was. My next question was what was one of the main topics or your takeaways from it? So what were these third party administrators? Because when it comes to technology, I mean, are there any group of people that are more technology forward than third party administrators? I mean we're front of the line. [47:35] Melissa Dorito: Front of the. [47:36] Justin: So what were they teaching Elon Musk about this? [47:39] JD: What were they. What were they thinking? Are they scared of it? [47:42] Melissa Dorito: Oh, no, no, no. Most of it was how we can use that to make our lives easier and save us time and do things and create efficiencies. [47:52] JD: And is, is that within. [47:53] Melissa Dorito: I'm being real guarded in what I say, by the way, because of the stupid acronym thing. [47:59] JD: No. [47:59] Mark: What's going to happen, Melissa, is you're going to have a meeting tomorrow and you're going to do the same thing during your meeting. [48:04] Justin: You're going to notice it. Yeah, it is so annoying. [48:07] JD: Let me. Did the conversation get to this point at all? Like I totally see how currently you could look at things that are out there on the market. Google, Gemini, Grox, open artificial intelligence chat and say and say like oh, these can really help me write emails or understand questions or what have you. And I see all the kind of quick tips that people put out there to kind of make your business day go a little faster. But I wonder if they're thinking about the fact that when you run compliance tests and you put census in your software and you run a, an ADP test I'll drink and other types of compliance tests that it seems to me those are very steps along an assembly line. They're rules based and they're kind of math based and we use historically software to do a lot of that. You would think they'd be scared that real artificial intelligence would be able to do those things fairly quickly, I would feel like and put them all out of a job. But that's not the discussion they're having there. [49:24] Melissa Dorito: No, it's more about taking some of the manual steps out of that process and making our lives easier. There was a long discussion at one point about emails and email. I'm not. I hope I don't botch. It was something about just having artificial intelligence summarize your emails with action items and then how you can reply. That was. That was a lot about it. I mean there's obviously vendors and companies out there that are trying to really push artificial intelligence with their compliance software as well. I think that. I think it's going to be really hard to replace people. You might not have to have as many people to do the job if you can build. If you can build it efficient way and artificial intelligence actually works. But I don't think will all completely be replaced because of it. But I could be naive, but I retire in eight years. So I mean, if that's. [50:20] JD: You're over it. No, but I just, I would think if that group's going to get together from all across the country and talk about a subject, you know, sure, go ahead and talk about the summarizing emails and all that stuff because it's relevant, it's real, it's today. But I would also think you'd want to as a group think about, okay, well how can we be ahead of this in terms of either protecting our jobs or, or how would we leverage it going forward where we could do better? So anyways, me personally, I think many third party administrators could be in a very good position to leverage that technology the same way we've leveraged software over the last 30, 40 years. And we might be able to move quicker at sharper angles than our large bundled counterparts. And so maybe there's an opportunity for third party administrators to really leap out ahead when it comes to utilizing artificial intelligence and all the value that that might provide clients and allow us to really up our game in different ways. But again, I'm just hypothesis. [51:22] Melissa Dorito: I think that third party administrators, we really like to make our lives difficult and add 5,000 steps to something and I think artificial intelligence and some of this will hopefully streamline some of that process so that then you maybe can bring one more plan and continue to be more profitable. [51:38] JD: Yeah, we'll see. Welcome. Welcome, Chad. [51:42] Chad: Thanks. I'm sorry I missed you all. It was a sad moment. [51:47] JD: Wait, what did Amanda say? Wait, did J.D. just say that artificial allow us to up our game? Maybe he's starting not. Oh, nice. I never hated you, Amanda. [51:56] Melissa Dorito: You put it there earlier that you were being nicer to me than you were to her. [52:01] JD: I mean, she's fun to have fun with. Amanda, check your LinkedIn messages. I private message you today with very friendly message. Oh, she did? Cool. Let's see. I. Let's. Let's do. Let's do one more thing from that. How many people are at that conference Ballpark? [52:19] Melissa Dorito: I think about 100. [52:20] JD: About 100. Did you go to the national association of Plan Advisors conference in Vegas or no? [52:27] Melissa Dorito: No, because this overlapped. [52:29] JD: It was right on top. Well, that's weird. Let's talk about that for a second. Why did they overlap with the biggest conference in our industry, Chad? [52:38] Chad: Two different audiences supposed to be at least isn't. [52:43] JD: Isn't the third party administrator growth Summit at National association of Planet Advisors in Vegas or. [52:48] Chad: No, it wasn't no, that's just, that's just an annual. [52:52] Melissa Dorito: The other one that's at the other conference. [52:53] JD: Oh, that's at the end. [52:54] Mark: The longer acronym. [52:57] JD: Let's try that one. [52:58] Chad: Hey, there were. I saw so many posts from compliance administrators that were at national association of Plan Advisors this year. It's a, It's a hefty price tag to get in there as a, as a non advisor. There are a bunch of non producing third party administrators there. [53:17] JD: Where do you. I would think that'd be where your money would be better spent. No offense to dawn and her thing. I want to go mix it up with advisors instead of mix it up with my peers. [53:25] Melissa Dorito: I think it's. It's there. You're going to get two different things out of those two different conferences for third party administrators. I don't necessarily think that it was a good idea for them to overlap. I also am not part of the benchmark program currently. I just got asked to speak on a panel, which is why I went, [53:43] JD: yeah, I'm not part of it either. But she's been doing that for a long time. I'm imagining people get value from it. [53:52] Chad: Was the question asked or talked about amongst groups there. Does. [53:58] JD: Does. [53:58] Chad: What do we call them? Consortiums like Serato and the one that MAP is starting. Does that interfere with what dawn has been building for years? [54:08] JD: Melissa, do you know the Serato Group? [54:10] Melissa Dorito: I do. I'm familiar with him. [54:12] JD: Okay, that's an interesting question, Chad. Melissa, take a stab at it. Is Serato Group similar to what Dawn's doing? [54:19] Melissa Dorito: I think I feel like I asked somebody that because I'm not part of either one of those. Okay. So I asked somebody if they. What if they were in. I felt like the answer was they are slightly different in terms of what they're providing. To me, as an outsider looking in, they look very similar, but I'm also not involved in either one of them. [54:37] JD: I think if you're part of the Serato Group, you're probably cringing at this conversation because Serato Group's trying to like create a brand and a national presence. And where I feel like Don is saying, creating a community where we can learn and then we can kind of, yes. Pool all our power together to get. Get special pricing on certain things, which she does and has always done. But Serato Group's really trying to be like, no, no, we're going to stand for something far more like a quality and a value and a shared brand. Right. That we're putting across there. Melissa, you said you're not part of either. What do you think about these? We talked about other partnerships earlier around different record keepers and payroll providers. How do you feel about t third party administrators partnering together in situations like this? [55:26] Melissa Dorito: Oh, I think it's a good idea. I, I think that it, there's. It's actually I get a lot out of going to all of these conferences and interacting with all of the, with everyone there to be honest. And so I think that that's part of the appeal. I feel like with Serato Group and this might not be the same for dons, I don't know. I think with Serato Group, so one of my competitors is part of it so I don't think I could ever join it. I think you have. [55:50] JD: Oh, it's regional. [55:51] Melissa Dorito: Yeah, I think so. Which is very similar to. So you know, I'm part of a certified public accounting firm so. And I'm involved in that firm and it's very. That Serato Group reminds me of an association and I'm just going to say it bdo. [56:09] JD: Okay, I've heard of that. Yeah, yeah. [56:11] Melissa Dorito: I've caved. I've caved. So it's really hard not to use acronyms and so that's what Serato Group reminds me of. That it's an alliance type program. [56:23] JD: Chad and I have had this conversation. We've been approached by some of those types of groups and I've told Chad very transparently and honestly like I just, I don't, just don't feel like it fits my personality but maybe I'm not making proper sense of it. [56:38] Chad: I'll. I'll comment a little bit on some of the pieces that were in the chat. I guess the intriguing thing to me is if I put my director a sales hat on is that some of the groups like Serato and others have come with a different pitch of late which is we're going to get our way in at the broker dealer level, we're going to get our way in at the record keeper level. We're going to have the ability to move needles that a regional third party administrator not able to. And that to me is intriguing and it is perhaps the next evolution of what a TPA is. If we can nationalize in a way that we have an impact on the decisions that are made at the broker dealer level. [57:20] JD: If a Serato Group can ink a deal with a large national broker dealer and then how many members are in the serato group? Like 8, 9, 10, whatever it is, I think like 7. [57:34] Chad: I don't think there's that many? [57:35] JD: Oh, Amanda says 14. Yeah. So. And then each of those can get their share of whatever new plans that's going to be. By the way, as I do that math in my head, it seems less and less sexy to me. But let's assume that that Broker Dealer 1 is. First of all, Chad, what are the odds that you're going to get a sweetheart deal where they only work with you, the Serrata group? No, they're going to have a deal with future plan or someone else. [57:59] Chad: Well, that and their, their advisors, boots on the ground have relationships already. And are you going to force the hands of their producers? Probably not. [58:07] JD: So see, even there, the more I say it out loud, I don't even think that that's that valuable to. Oh, we gotta. We're on the approved list for this national broker dealer like so the. What does that matter? [58:21] Chad: For a very long time. Jd, it's all about access for the, for the TPA community right now. It's all about access. It is wrong person to advisors access at a greater scope than one on one fighting. And I, I do think that that's the next step for our community to succeed. [58:40] JD: He, you know, Melissa, he says that because he's a national sales director. And so when he wakes up on Monday morning, Chad's thinking about trying to not fish with a pole, but fish with a net. So that's just where his headspace is at. And so there might be a lot that's right to what he's saying. Go ahead and Melissa. [58:56] Melissa Dorito: No, I, I don't disagree with Chad, who's much more than fashionably late to this party today. [59:03] JD: Yeah, I wanted to say that, but I didn't. [59:06] Chad: My daughter was, my daughter was, was playing the trombone in concert at school. [59:10] JD: So you can't, you can't stand up in the audience and ask them to speed it up. [59:15] Melissa Dorito: Come on, I got a show to get to. No, I. Where I have a hard time and it's not. And it's really. I know facts for this is what is the return on investment for being part of those groups because they're not inexpensive. And so I know you get some discounts, but I would be more curious as to what Chad was talking to, talking about in terms of access to advisors and record keepers. You know, how does it, how does it help me grow my business? [59:43] JD: Well, I will, I'll end this discussion with this for any TPAs that are. Damn it. That was not on, on purpose. [59:50] Melissa Dorito: Well, you know, you, you do have a show that, that are. [59:52] JD: That are listening in. I am currently in the works with doing a. What do you call an event, a marketing event where we'll invite financial advisors. And I'm going to be doing it in partnership with one of my competitors in the area. And so I used to look at defined contribution investment only people and think it was so cool that they could all kind of partner together because they all understood that there's many sleeves in a core menu. Right. And so they couldn't. They, they were fighting for different spots, but they could kind of partner together where it was very uncommon to get like record keepers together at the same event because they were kind of ruthless competitors of each other. And I have, I have not liked when third party administrators get competitive and kind of talk shit about each other in certain regions. And I've always felt like it would be far better for all of us if we treated each other with more respect and actually and professionally. And, and when an advisor asked you about one of your competitors, if you could say positive things about third party administrators in general, it might kind of raise all of us up as a group in the eyes of advisors. And so I'm really excited about this event I'm going to do. And I just, I know, Melissa, you can have the final thoughts here, but I would just love to see more and more. And it's happening. Look, Amanda's here and Shannon comes here and we've, we've had them on this very show. Right. Until talk. Here you are. Duh. You know, and so, yeah, I didn't even realize that it's happening right here in front of me. We should be supporting each other more and I think we'd all benefit from that. [1:01:31] Melissa Dorito: I agree. I've always said there's enough business to go around. I actually saw one of my competitors. We were both, he was leaving a prospect meeting and I was going in and I gave him a big hug because he's one of my favorite people and he's about an hour south of here. And it was just kind of like, whoever gets the business, gets the business. But. But I, I do not. I've had prospect meetings before where they are talking about their current third party administrator and they're complaining about their compliance test. Oh, we keep failing the average deferral percentage test. [1:02:02] JD: Right, Right. [1:02:03] Melissa Dorito: But we keep. And I'm like, but that's not actually their fault. You know that, right? Or we are top heavy. And I'm like, also not their fault. Like this is all just math problems. Like, I'm not going to give you I'm not going to yield you a different result. And maybe that's why I'm a bad salesperson. [1:02:18] JD: Oh, that's actually a great example. That's the exact example I'm talking about, is use that moment to really kind of up the reputation of your peers. I mean, because most of them are pretty damn good. And so anyways, I love that Amanda's saying that we finally agree because I honestly do feel like third party administrators have not been that great at promoting and marketing themselves over the last 50 years. Oh, remind me that I'm just gonna say that right now. Today is May 1, 2025. My father started Plan Design Consultants on May 1, 1975. 50 years ago. Yes. Pat me on the back for having a daddy that started a company. [1:03:05] Mark: We got you, jd. [1:03:07] JD: Hashtag nepotism. Hashtag nepotism. I think. I think that third party administrators could have a really bright future and could actually start the whole. When advisors think of them, they'll think differently than they thought the last 30, 40 years. We have an opportunity through technology, through snap on technology, through, like I mentioned earlier, being able to kind of bob and weave when our larger competitors cannot. Where if we all got together and were smart about that and changed our messaging and learned something from the guidelines and the human interest and all their success, we could have a very bright future and take over more market share from the bundled providers. And I think that would be a good thing. Chat bar champion. Melissa. This is the time of the show where we're going to vote for our favorite person in the chat bar. I'm going to start and I'm going to say that I'm voting for Amanda because I. I love her. I think she's awesome, and she's my favorite person in the chat bar tonight. Amanda Justin, your vote is for whom? [1:04:17] Justin: Mine was the same. Her comment of JD Being so nice to Melissa. I wonder what that's like. [1:04:22] Mark: Got me. [1:04:24] JD: Chad, you don't get a vote because. [1:04:25] Chad: No, I do. [1:04:26] JD: I was. I was watching. [1:04:27] Chad: I have a vote. [1:04:28] Mark: Well, it looks cool when you do that. [1:04:30] Melissa Dorito: That. [1:04:31] Chad: Oh, because I'm. Yeah. Because my hand gets real big. Up top, Christina Jones for saying you can't lay off agents because someone needs to answer her calls. [1:04:42] Melissa Dorito: People never answer my calls no matter how many agents there are. So I don't know. [1:04:46] JD: Robe guy. Your vote for chopper champion. [1:04:51] Mark: I'm gonna third. [1:04:52] Justin: Amanda. [1:04:53] Mark: I mean, she's. [1:04:54] Justin: Yeah. [1:04:55] JD: Melissa, your vote for chopper champions. [1:04:59] Melissa Dorito: Amanda said earlier that I'm awesome, so definitely voting for her. [1:05:04] JD: Okay. [1:05:04] Justin: It's Unanimous Chad does not count. [1:05:06] JD: Yeah, Chad doesn't count. Today I was going to go back to the old school where they have to finish mark sentence, but because Amanda got so many votes, I'm just calling it a butt whooping. And so Amanda Iverson is the chat bar champion for tonight. Congratulations, Amanda. And I'll go check my LinkedIn, see if you wrote me back back. Hopefully you'll say yes. [1:05:28] Melissa Dorito: I did see her chat that she's told you that she replied. [1:05:32] JD: Amanda, well, well done. Do you know that there are people in this industry that have gotten to very high roles? Wayne park at Manulife, John Hancock retirement. God, that rolls right off the tongue, that new name they came up with. It's beautiful. Wayne park is not so good at responding to LinkedIn messages, but, Amanda, you are. Thank you, everybody, for tuning in to another episode of Retireholics. [1:06:04] Melissa Dorito: Did I win the acronym game? [1:06:06] JD: Amanda did. Oh, did you miss. [1:06:09] Justin: Not only did you do amazing. Not only did you do amazing. I have not seen what are the totals. [1:06:16] Melissa Dorito: Yeah. [1:06:16] Justin: So focused on not saying it either. [1:06:26] JD: You won. That's. That's like you winning in a way. You did. You did very good. [1:06:30] Melissa Dorito: He did three in five minutes. So that's really like. [1:06:32] Chad: I had to catch up. Unless I had to catch up. [1:06:35] Justin: Tony, Tony, chill the out. That's my name, dude. No. [1:06:38] Mark: Whoa. [1:06:39] Melissa Dorito: Wanted me to have 20. I'm like, oh, no, Amanda, I will. I will work hard. [1:06:44] Chad: Amanda did good for like the first eight minutes and then she lost it and got to 20 quickly. [1:06:49] Mark: So, okay, Melissa had about five in the first minute and a half. [1:06:54] Chad: Yeah. [1:06:55] Mark: Okay. [1:06:56] Melissa Dorito: Well, I was confused, and once I caught on to how the game works, I mean, I'm here for it. I'm very competitive. [1:07:03] Mark: J.D. [1:07:03] Justin: are you. [1:07:03] JD: Thank you. Thank you for. Thank you for tuning in, everyone. Not. Oh, okay. Yeah, we'll. If you stick around, we're going to try the song one more time, but I just want to say thank you for tuning in. [1:07:15] Justin: And we're going from the top of the second verse. [1:07:18] JD: We'll go from the top. But. But everyone, thanks for tuning in. But just understand, like, these can't all be bangers. You know, sometimes, you know, I'm a little off and the show's a little off. So maybe next week, next time is going to be a good one. We don't know. But I do know that, Melissa, you are a phenomenal guest. I did not know that you had the spice. I did not know that you had the opinions. I think if I manage to get you back on the show. Sometime in the future, I might get you in trouble. We might. We might. Got to go deep on some of this stuff. I didn't know you had that gear. But thanks for being transparent, thanks for being honest, and thanks for accepting our invitation to be on Retireaholics. I'm gonna. I'm gonna be the song to play us out, I guess, is what we're gonna do. [1:08:04] Melissa Dorito: We make it, like, lower volume. [1:08:06] JD: Was it. Was it loud? Well, let's test it. [1:08:08] Justin: Your voice is peaking pretty high. [1:08:10] JD: Well, let's test it. Let's test it. Let's see what you guys think about the. [1:08:16] Chad: Apparently I should miss the beginning and the end of tonight's show. [1:08:19] Melissa Dorito: Oh, boy. [1:08:20] Justin: This was actually a good one, Chad. [1:08:21] Mark: This has. This has promise, but Jay royally it up. [1:08:28] JD: You're putting a lot of pressure on me right now. Like, I'm feeling it was going really [1:08:32] Mark: well, and then, like, literally the whole thing just blew up. Yeah. [1:08:36] Melissa Dorito: Yeah. [1:08:36] JD: Okay, tell me. [1:08:37] Justin: Don't get close to your mic. [1:08:39] JD: Oh, don't get close to the mic. Okay, tell me how you feel about the volume right now of the music. What do you say? [1:08:50] Melissa Dorito: Yeah, just don't yell, J.D. [1:08:52] JD: don't yell. Okay, that's gonna be hard. [1:08:54] Mark: That's like my death pedal. Screams. [1:08:58] JD: All right, here we go. I can't see you guys. Here we go. His name is Fred. I have a dream about him. He rings my bell. He's bigger than Ted Bena. Oh, how he rocks in a suit. I'm. I'm out of here. God damn it. Goodbye, everybody. See you later. Pre. [1:09:55] Mark: Pre record it so there's no pressure. Pre record one. Okay. [1:09:58] Justin: That's a good call. [1:09:59] Melissa Dorito: Yelling. Okay. Volume on my computer, and I couldn't. Apparently there's a setting that I can't do that, so. [1:10:07] JD: Goodbye, everybody. We'll see you next time, Brandon. Thanks, Melissa. [1:10:11] Melissa Dorito: Thank y'. All. [1:10:12] Justin: Thanks, Melissa. See you guys. [1:10:14] Mark: See you, [1:10:19] Melissa Dorito: Man. [1:10:19] JD: Bro, is it too high? First of all, I had 25%. [1:10:26] Melissa Dorito: Yeah.