LPL's $2.7B Commonwealth Deal & Fintech vs Legacy

[0:03] JD: Let me up. Let me up. We going to have a real bad. You are going to have a really, really bad time, sir. [0:11] Speaker B: This. [0:12] JD: Hit me up. Hit me up. You're going to have a real bad time. Oh, my God. Amanda Iverson is here. Amanda, we love you. We love you. You're a legend. We'll get back to that more later. Before we start the show today, I would like to start with a public service announcement, also known as a psa. [0:40] Justin: The views expressed in this show are only objects. [0:45] JD: No, I feel like I'm speaking on behalf of all of us, so. Okay. [0:50] Chad: No, I don't accept you speaking on behalf of me ever. [0:55] JD: Well, you work for me, so suck it up. Last show, some statements were said about. Everyone listen up, here we go. Okay. Some statements were said about a certain record keeper and to be honest, this wouldn't be the first time that come Friday morning some record keeper or tech company or even trade organization is contacting us. Shall I say the word upset? You know, less than happy with us. This is what would. This is their messages we get on a Friday morning after a show. It's been happening for a long time. These companies are obviously an important part of our industry. My attorney wrote this for me and. Well, I want to take this time to professionally speak on behalf of retireaholics and Mark Palme and Justin McNeil specifically and address our typical Thursday night comments which I know can be, shall I say, rough or, or harsh at times. I want you to know from the bottom of our hearts and mine that you all should stop whining like little babies and grow the up. [2:22] Chad: Oh God. [2:23] Mark: Oh gosh. [2:24] JD: For context, we have been doing this show for 10 years and the whole point of this show is that we share our unfiltered and honest opinions. If we instead only shared ideas and thoughts that were fully prepared or created not to offend, well, then you would just be watching a good old fashioned panelist group or an industry sponsored webinar. And we all know we've got plenty of those. Or yeah, as Sherry says, no one would show up. In summary, the whole point of this show, people, is that we drink booze and speak our mind. That came from you, robe guy in our text. We speak our minds about this industry that we love and hold dear. And if you don't like what we say on a Thursday night, please continue to call me and or message me and complain on a Friday morning. Leave a very long voicemail because it really fills me up. It is the fuel to my fire. Continue to do It. All right, everyone. Welcome to another episode of retireholics. My name is Jizzle Dizzle. My name is Jizzle Dizzle and I'm here with Silent J and somebody who plays with his calculator way too much. Nerdy Chad. But I know you're all here. You're all here for everybody. [4:05] Chad: Chad plays with his calculator too much. That's. That's gotta go on it. Sure. [4:11] Mark: It's kind of like Justin winning the hot dog eating contest at ASPA annual when it wasn't a hot dog. [4:19] JD: Far apart. Bring them up, Bring them up. This is the silence. Justin guest introduction is. When you say Silent Jay, do you. You have to drink? [4:31] Chad: No. [4:32] JD: No, no. All right. This is the Silent J introduction. A first time retire Alex guest. Shut up. [4:41] Justin: You'll understand why. Two time jam bar, chat bar champ, first time guest. Shut up. The man we suckered into being a financier. [4:52] Chad: That you. [4:54] JD: You. [4:57] Justin: God damn it. You totally me up. [4:59] JD: Brandon, starting over. [5:02] Justin: Our champ, first time guest. The man we suckered into being the financier of the retireholics movie, which you should see that ROI. I'll drink in about 20 years, if ever. The 2014 Chili Eating Champion of Long Beach, California. Head boy, the Hufflepuff House RVP. I'll drink for that, too. Of the pack northwest, Mr. Kevin Spayeth. [5:20] Kevin Spayeth: Thank you very much, everybody. Great to be on the show. Long time, first time. Been a big fan of it and glad to be be here. [5:27] JD: Kevin, we are so excited to have you here. [5:30] Chad: Why did you change out of your robe? [5:32] Justin: You take off your robe? [5:33] Kevin Spayeth: Yeah, you know, like Mr. Rogers. We were getting down to business, so I took off one sweater and put on another one. [5:39] JD: God, I miss Mr. Rogers. [5:41] Chad: Only because you had a good statement behind that. I'll let it slide. [5:44] Justin: That's good. [5:46] JD: I have to say, Justin, in all honesty, like, Kevin has been in the industry a long time and been and I think it'll come in valuable today because he's been in different types of roles. But in his current role with Panchaks, and I've told him this, he might be in the top five of like hardest working people in the industry right now. This dude is traveling around everywhere shaking hands, kissing babies, putting on costumes and walking offices and doing things. Kevin, quickly, am I wrong? Like, what's your life been like recently? I feel like you've just been balling out super salesperson, run around everywhere. [6:25] Kevin Spayeth: Clearly worse. But remarried. Well, I took a couple of weeks off the off the road because my wife did have Surgery last week. I'm actually on the road right now, calling in from Salem, Oregon. While you were messing with your housekeepers, I was visiting Professional Benefit services down here in Salem. [6:43] JD: Nice. [6:44] Kevin Spayeth: They gave me a sweet hammock, you know, shout out. But I've been up and down. I'm trying to focus more on my mantra for 2025 is, you know, work more, travel less. But it's not really working out so much. I'm still traveling a hell of a lot. [7:00] Mark: I don't got a lot of a year left. [7:03] JD: Yeah. And I don't think. I don't think you can put a value on, especially post covet. The value of actually getting out there and rubbing up against people, Kevin. I mean, that's not what you're doing. Yeah. [7:15] Speaker B: Wow. [7:17] JD: Touching your clients. Touching them. Touching them. Oh, wait, no. Sorry, but you know what I mean. You know what I mean. No, I think it's worth it. That's cool, Brandon. [7:27] Kevin Spayeth: No, definitely, like, I got. When I was interviewing for the job, I told Scott, I'm like, yeah, I don't need to travel. I cannot do this all for moments like, no, no. It does require the. The in person touch. And I'm like, yeah, but I got all that. I got all the connections. And then when I got the job and traveling, I realized how much I missed it and how much I miss meeting people in person and seeing people [7:48] JD: in person, you know, in person and touching them. [7:53] Mark: Hey, Gavin, you hold a special place, and I'm going to say jd, but in our hearts, I don't know if you remember this long, long ago, prior life for you, different job. We were struggling getting a data feed from one specific record keeper into our. Into our testing system. And you told us, just use the import of a different record keeper and upload their file into it, and it will read and work. And it was, like, mind blowing for our administrative team when they were able to do that. Saved us a ton of time, man. Huge. Thanks again. That's 15 years later. [8:29] Justin: Powerful information, if you ask me. [8:32] Kevin Spayeth: Yeah, yeah. [8:32] Mark: It's a man's got data. He's got info up there. [8:35] JD: Yeah. You dirty little scoundrels. Okay, let's. Let's go to headlines, Brandon, shall we? Well, as I dab a little bitters in my bourbon here and a little simple syrup, let's talk about the headline that's most important to me, shall we? The ce. Oh, God damn it. I'll drink the chief executive officer of John Hancock. Excuse me, shall we say Manulife John Hancock Retirement I think it's Manulife Retirement John Hancock. Oh, Jesus. Okay. Has finally responded to my direct message. Wayne Park. I'm not sure what happened. No, I know what happened. Chad knows what happened. But he has finally responded to my dm. I'll drink. And I just want to let everyone know. Don't tell him that I'm saying this right now. Let's keep this a secret. But I'm going to give it right back to him now. I'm going to ignore his message for a few months before I respond to him because it took him so long to respond to me and rogue guys agreeing. Good. That makes me feel good. [10:04] Justin: He's been getting drunk with Chad the last week. [10:06] Kevin Spayeth: Are you going to leave him on red, though? Are you going to open it and just not respond or. [10:10] JD: Yes. Yes, right there. [10:11] Kevin Spayeth: So then he gets. [10:12] JD: Maybe, you know, Kevin, maybe I'll. [10:14] Kevin Spayeth: I know. I know he read it. [10:16] JD: Maybe I'll put a little dot, dot, dot and just bail. [10:21] Mark: Just send it. Send it to your producer to respond. [10:27] JD: Responded. [10:27] Chad: When he responded to you. Was it the middle finger emoji? [10:32] Mark: That would have been classic, right? [10:34] Kevin Spayeth: Only on the war chat. [10:36] JD: Yeah, we can talk maybe in the after show about how that all came to fruition. No, the. The big news, I feel like. And I apologize because. Chad, you want us to hop online and talk about this immediately when you saw it, and at the time, I just didn't see it as that big of a deal, but. Linsco Private Ledger. Am I getting that right? [10:59] Mark: I have no idea that it. See, Kevin says yes. [11:03] JD: Financial. It has acquired Commonwealth. Apparently there's a fair amount of drama, shall I say, attached to this. This is a great article at Registered Investment Advisor. Whatever. And that you can go read. And. And there's actually also a podcast with Rich Stein. My. Kevin, can you move? I can't read his name. [11:33] Kevin Spayeth: There's a. [11:33] JD: There's a cool podcast interview out there with this guy who lives in San Diego. I would love to get. Be friends with this guy. You know, I wonder how many Lambdas he's got. But there's a great interview on this and so there's some drama attached. So get to the point, JD Apparently Commonwealth and I. I wasn't that aware of this, but they've got a very good, cool reputation amongst advisors. They're popular amongst them. And would it be fair to say that not Lindsay. Come. Lynn's. What the fuck is her name again? [12:15] Chad: Lips. Lipsicum. [12:16] JD: Lyn. Private Ledger is. Is kind of like a behemoth. Like a. Like A very large, I'm not going to call them like, you know, the freaking Sith Lord or something, but they're a big, big behemoth type of broker dealer. Here comes the emails on Friday and, and Commonwealth. Now this is not my words. This is in this very article that we're talking about here, written by Brook Southall, is described as the anti and I'll drink lpl. So. And they are a fairly competitive competitor. Redundancy to Lynsco Private Ledger. Commonwealth is for poaching advisors. Like, so these are two big firms and like advisors make the choice between the two and yes, Chad, and then they say, fuck lpl, I'm going to Commonwealth. And now this deal gets done under this genius Chief executive officer. 2,900 advisors at Commonwealth. That's a lot. The price Tag currently is 2.7 billion, but apparently there's like nuance and details to this where they could pay more and hold onto that for a second.285 billion in assets at Commonwealth.120 million it says in revenue. But then later in the article that's. God damn it, I'm saying this one because I can't say it off the cuff. EBITDA 120 million in what I just said. [13:56] Justin: I'll drink for you, pal. [13:57] JD: So this is a big, big deal. And in addition to that from this article, quote, there is no question that Linscombe Private Ledger plans a very generous retention package for the Commonwealth advisors. Yes, Chat. So there's some big advisors that even after this acquisition that they want to stay put and they're going to give them an incentive to stay put. Some people call this I like money. Yeah, fuck. Some people call this at eight times that word I'm not going to say again. Other people are calculating it as a 20 times when it all comes in and it says and done. Which that blows my mind. So the drama here is big behemoth broker dealer buys other pretty big but. And cool and very like accepted broker dealer. What do you think all these, these advisors at Commonwealth, Kevin, I'm going straight to you. Putting you in the hot seat. Are they like, yes, I'm at Commonwealth now I'm going to Lince Private Ledger and someone's going to come and talk to me on what kind of check they're going to stroke me or are they saying to themselves, fuck, I went to Commonwealth because I want to be at Commonwealth. I don't want to be on the Death Star? [15:14] Kevin Spayeth: Well, I'm thinking that they're going to take the check and Then see what the wait out period is and then maybe jump ship right after that. [15:20] JD: You dirty bastard. [15:22] Kevin Spayeth: And it's been a while since I covered Linsco private ledger at national accounts in my old firm. But you know, how much is the home office that's doing it rather than individual broker offices? Because you have no idea who a Linsco private ledger is or Commonwealth Linso private ledger or Commonwealth Advisor is because it's all like Centuro wealth or Logista Wealth. They're all, they're all their own firms with leaning on the back office support. And then it also is what's done through the BD versus what's done through their broker dealers. [15:56] JD: Oh yeah, self regulating. I like that. [15:59] Kevin Spayeth: Through the registered investment advisor. [16:02] JD: True. Chad, did you go ahead. [16:07] Mark: I think I mentioned to you it was Fred Barnstein that broke this to me, man. He's so connected. He gets information so fast. That's when I text you. When I was in Chicago with him and he made a really interesting point. I think he actually put it on his podcast here in the last day or two, pending any objections, I guess. [16:32] JD: Guys believe. [16:33] Mark: Well, no, no. Commonwealth was fined by the SEC some. Oh, dang. I want to say something like $99 million. And when you think about their look at Hackler standard interest in tax and they're making their EBITDA and I'll take both of them is 120 million and they got fined 93 million. You're in a pretty tough little spot right there. A year's revenue and. [17:00] JD: And [17:03] Mark: happily take that money and run. And then he also made a point on his podcast that he had some of the most recent big name advisors. Alex Astley is one of the ones he named that left Commonwealth somewhat unhappy. Went over to Hub. So you have some big names jumping ship, you're losing some assets under management, you've got a big fine. It seemed like a pretty good time for them to potentially sell. [17:29] JD: And I don't think the people at Lynscombe Private Ledger are idiots. I think they will gladly stroke the check in spite of some of those things you just said. Because you said 90 million. Fred Barnstein put it on there, on the. In the chat bar there. Hackler had a comment. Regulatory approval is what he called it. When you're paying 2.7 billion, 90 million is like that's just a little fluff off the top. You're like, okay, no, but I'm talking [18:03] Mark: if, if you're Commonwealth. I'm saying on the other side of that, if you're Commonwealth and you've lost an entire year of revenue. And now you're in a position where you're losing some of your big, big name advisors. Well, you're not like writing on the wall that it could be a good time. [18:18] JD: They're going to keep the brand, they say, as is most of these articles written about it. Say it won't. We'll see how long that lasts. But you're not Commonwealth anymore. I know I'm stretching the truth right now. You're. You're lpl and I'll drink. So they'll get through it. They're basically doing what a lot of big business does. I just took the drink, by the way. It was the littlest sip. That was a drop. [18:44] Mark: Let me ask Kevin, because you've been, you've been on like the enterprise level for so many years. What is their hopeful retention rate of those 2,200 advisors? [18:55] Kevin Spayeth: I don't even know on the advisor side what that would be, but maybe they're looking at maybe 80%, 70%. And then what are they hoping for and what are they actually going to get? Are two different things. And then how are they going to spin the numbers once everything's done to make it look like they. [19:11] JD: You want to know the honest opinion of someone who's been through this before in some way, shape or form. It's kind of like automatic enrollment. You're going to get outliers that are passionate, that don't want to be there. They're going to take the effort to do things and move. And most people are going to be upset right now. Eventually the vibrations will settle. Everything will chill down. They'll continue to focus on the work that they do and they'll just accept that, that their new broker dealer is Linscom private ledger. Like so I think they plan on keeping a fair amount. I think Kevin's numbers are actually fairly conservative. I think they'll, they'll get more than that. And by the way, the guy this, the chief executive officer talks about a higher number than that on the podcast that he's on. And, and I think he's right. I think eventually people will stay put also because they're, they're stroking people checks. Like all the big producers are getting paid right now like they were. That's the bigger story in the story. Just like they were moving firms, they're getting that same kind of check to stay, which is crazy. [20:20] Kevin Spayeth: Yeah. And here's the thing also. Let's say somebody wants to move and they spend all the time and hassle of changing, chasing down all their clients. They're getting to sign paperwork, re. Re register with a finra. [20:36] JD: Dude, he just st What a legend. [20:38] Kevin Spayeth: Go to another smaller broker dealer firm, and then LPL buys them in four years. You know, consolidation happen is happening in every aspect, not only of the retirement plan business, but in our life. [20:50] JD: Kevin, we would all like to know what you're drinking. And you will need to drink again for your Linscombe private ledger. You just did. [20:56] Kevin Spayeth: So I'm drinking Mirror pond from Bend, Oregon. [21:03] JD: Okay. [21:04] Mark: Delicious. [21:05] Kevin Spayeth: And a. [21:06] JD: And an actual client appendix as your social fun drink. But what are you drinking for when you have an acro sin? Is this your first rodeo, bro? [21:16] Chad: This? [21:17] Kevin Spayeth: Oh, this is vodka. [21:18] JD: Okay, there we go. But you just drink from that one. [21:21] Kevin Spayeth: And this from my alien forensic is pure water. [21:25] JD: All right. I've been drinking a lot of vodka [21:28] Justin: in my green one. [21:31] Kevin Spayeth: That keeps the beer is my Atchison one. [21:33] JD: What? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. [21:36] Kevin Spayeth: Sorry. This is my Ackerson one. The beer is my regular beer. [21:39] Justin: Okay, Kevin, a couple out of the beer. [21:41] JD: Yes. I would like you to start applying that protocol to this show. Okay. Jesus. [21:47] Mark: I do really like his green screen water bottle that it keeps changing colors and going in and out. That's awesome. [21:54] JD: I didn't send you the email with all the instructions because I figured this was not your first rodeo. You understood how this worked, okay? So please follow the rules, my ass. [22:04] Justin: That's John Denver's Felicia. [22:06] JD: I think he's actually mad at us. [22:08] Kevin Spayeth: All right? I'm like, what else do I got here to drink? And I'm like, oh, I have some Alaskan and a couple of sours. [22:17] JD: Oh, what hotel are you staying at? [22:18] Kevin Spayeth: Sorry, just a residence inn. [22:22] JD: Okay. Yeah, can. Can you ask Ben checks to step up the budget a little bit? [22:26] Mark: I mean, you could have. You could have said the Ritz, and he would have said, can you ask Ben checks to say, step up the budget, get to the four Seasons? It did not matter how you. [22:33] JD: In all honesty, Chad, in all honesty, the service at the Ritz has been falling off since COVID I mean, I'm questioning whether I should stay at a Ritz ever again, to be honest. [22:44] Kevin Spayeth: And to be honest, after the box office disaster and we haven't made our money back from the tire holics movie, We've had a of different things. And say, [22:59] Justin: are we gonna talk about number two or not? [23:01] Kevin Spayeth: We've been duped. [23:02] JD: Maybe later, but I love that. [23:08] Kevin Spayeth: Or is it. You know, what's it gonna be? [23:11] JD: We worked our ass on off on that movie. And yeah, hey, if you haven't seen it, retire Hulks, a movie. It's a thing. Go watch it. [23:19] Justin: I kind of blame you for that, Kevin. I mean, what. In what world did you think you [23:23] Mark: were gonna get a return on that? [23:25] Kevin Spayeth: Oh, I wasn't at Penchecks at the time. [23:26] JD: Yeah, he wasn't there. That's all. [23:28] Chad: Scott, [23:32] Kevin Spayeth: I need another movie on my IMDb page. [23:35] JD: Katie Boyer, please tell me that you're kidding, because, yes, there's a full fledged Retire Helix movie out there. Just hop on YouTube. You can find it. My God, having a kid. Oh, yeah, she was. Katie, by the way, miss you. Love you. Okay, let's move on to the next headline. Betterment has a podcast. What? Wow. Yeah. So Betterments is massive firm. They've moved their way into 401k a little bit. They're huge in the kind of like investment area, financial planning area, and they've got a new podcast and I want to be nice here. It's called Advisor Exchange. And the idea is to have real conversations with advisors about how they run their business and in detail. And I thought that was kind of interesting. They got me and I was like, okay, obviously this is on Foreign K Specialist magazine. And so I watched the first episode. To my surprise, this hit close to home. The guest on the show is Eric Rodriguez. He is a financial planner that is at my country club. I see him there all the time and he says what's up to me? And I need to be more friendly to him. I've been kind of like Taylor Swifting him a little bit, where I kind of walk by and I just give him an eye glance and I don't. I don't like, talk to him that much. [25:11] Kevin Spayeth: And he just shakes it off. Shakes it. [25:14] JD: He's a. He's a good dude and he's their first guest. The only thing, only critique I would have of Eric is that motherfucker is at the golf course a lot. Because every time I'm there, I feel like he's there. Jk, [25:32] Mark: so we know you're there all the time. [25:35] JD: Yes, yes. [25:35] Mark: Got it, Got it. [25:37] JD: My golf game is firing these days. Are you interested, Kevin, in. I mean, this is a underhand softball question, but in hearing of. I don't think there's a lot of podcasts out there or interviews where we actually ask advisors about their business and how they run it and what works and what doesn't work. Just like the actual day to day, like making payroll, doing things Now, I want to also put third party administrators in this box for you because you run around, you see a lot of them. Are you not interested in how all these different companies do things differently? You tell me. [26:20] Kevin Spayeth: Well, how much of the secret sauce are you really going to reveal to a wide audience that could be your competition? You know, it's one thing to be part of an organization where you're like, hey, there, there's somebody here and there's somebody in Ohio and there's somebody in Texas, but if anybody can listen to it, including people in like La Mesa or Oceanside that are directly competing against your business in Encinitas, you know, I wouldn't do that. I do a larger where I give my secret sauce to people that will give it back to me. But we're not in direct competition. [26:52] JD: Mark, Mark, Mark, Mark. You're a man of the people. [26:58] Chad: Yeah, [27:00] JD: you're a man of the people. Do you agree with this? Do you feel like you should hold your secrets back from your peers in this industry? [27:13] Justin: Your secrets are. [27:19] Kevin Spayeth: Not in my particular market. My secrets and I want to exchange ideas with them, but somebody that I could be going up against, I don't want them knowing exactly what I'm get it, Kevin. [27:27] JD: We all understand, Kevin, how competitive you are. We get it. [27:31] Chad: There's a difference between like collaboration and sharing your expertise. It's like writing a book. You know, like, obviously someone writes that and wants to share that with everybody. But to Kevin's point, there's a fine line between like maybe giving away too much and I, I operate under the same mentality of like, I don't trust people. Right. But I, Yeah. So I want to share helpful tidbits, but that doesn't mean I'm going to give them everything. [28:16] JD: Wow, Chad. [28:17] Mark: This one, this one hurts. I mean, you guys know, you know what we've done for 10 plus years on this show. We shared our staircase of funding 10 years ago. [28:27] JD: People stealing your share. Case of funding. [28:31] Mark: I don't care if they steal it. It's not ours to not steal, but we even. This last week with Fred, I gave away what I have consistently heard is our best analogy in a long time of the different roles and responsibilities in our space. The building. Your dream home analogy. [28:49] JD: Yes. [28:50] Mark: Said that at Fred's conference this past week and I had half a dozen people walk up after saying, I've been in this industry for 30 years and I've never heard a better way of describing the roles. I say record keeper. [29:02] JD: Chad. I hear God share Chad. I say God Bless you. Fucking yes. That's the way you should make it better for everybody. [29:10] Mark: You have to have confidence in what you're providing. If they can replicate it, go for it. Let them try to replicate it. [29:17] JD: Yeah, it's you. [29:20] Mark: You share your secret sauce, man gal, share it all. [29:23] JD: How do you think about that, Frozen Kevin? [29:30] Kevin Spayeth: I also think that if it's a betterment, if it's a financial, if it's a podcast where it's through a licensed organization, they're not going to be as open and honest as a retired Alexa. The great thing about your podcast is you don't care if you piss people off, you say the truth. I think a lot of other ones will be like, hey, this is what the people that are paying us or the people we make money off of want us to say and might not be the total. [29:54] JD: That's fair. You guys are. [29:56] Chad: Can I, can I say one thing is that I, I took that question not on a, just a professional level, because I think in my professional life, yeah, I don't, I don't care like that, that doesn't bother me none of this, but I'm a very like, [30:13] JD: like [30:13] Chad: pretty private person and I think I have other areas of my life and other things and other experiences and other thoughts and other areas that maybe I don't share other things in. So if I revise my answer, yeah, it works stuff, go for it, whatever, but I'm not going to give away everything. Maybe outside of that, I, as someone, [30:36] JD: as someone who's, who's trying to run, trying to run three companies, I, right now, I do understand that there are certain proprietary tech type things that you want to like, keep, you know, behind your coat, like, okay, fine, I understand that. But I think in general, as an industry, we should all treat each other in a positive way and be like, hey man, this is what we're doing. This is how we're doing it and we can all learn and I'll get better for it. And I think in the end, sales is, is more about the hustle of your sales team and, and the hustle of your networking and your connections and not about like some. [31:18] Mark: We, we. [31:18] JD: We're not in the tech space. No one in this industry ever has created a thing that got them market share and some massive. Name it. Name the time that someone had an invention that then blew up and they got massive market share because they invented that thing. It just hasn't happened. And so I feel like we shall treat each other as peers. [31:44] Mark: Let's acknowledge we're not in these believer [31:47] Kevin Spayeth: in a rising tide lifts all ships. And when I was running around Southern California doing TPA sales, I was, you know, friends with everybody. My competition, Phil Dettney, Steve Lamb. [32:00] JD: You can always finish your thoughts, whatever. [32:03] Kevin Spayeth: And we, we had a thing. We never talk bad about each other. [32:07] JD: Yes. [32:08] Kevin Spayeth: In a meeting we don't. We we on bundle but we never say like oh QBI or oh better tech. We never do that. But we also would share like our cash balance design and how we and and our, our cash balance design with each other. You know we share a lot of different ideas. Let's share the actual thing that we. [32:29] JD: All right, let's move. [32:30] Mark: Let's clarify when we're talking about secret sauce. I'm not saying secret sauce is, is a physical thing you're developing. It's the way in which you're communicating. Tell me any advisor that's developed something technology, a way of doing something better that that is not just the way in which they're communicating these, this content or providing a service. This to me is two very different things. [32:55] Chad: Yes. [32:56] Mark: You don't give away the way Fred mentioned I got 4000 plan sponsors to register. I'm not saying you don't give away the way in which you're becoming successful with your technology. [33:07] Chad: Give all of it away, Chad. Give everything away. [33:09] Mark: Give your content away. Give your content away. [33:12] JD: Share. [33:13] Mark: You need to be open as an industry for us to continue to evolve. JD it was shortly after I started in this space you gave the analogy that financial services actually ranked below in trustworthiness than used car salesmen. Like when I jumped into this space, I thought what the hell am I doing right now? This is what you just told me is that people look at us as if we're used car salesmen in terms of our trustworthiness. That's terrifying. And perhaps that's terrifying because we've been an industry that generates a ton of revenue and keeps everything secret. The hidden fees and the lack of transparency, it's changed in 15 years. But we need to evolve beyond that and honesty, transparency, all of that's going to get you there. [33:59] JD: I was about to put this topic to bed, but let's have some fun here for a second. I thought you were going to talk about how a lot of these vendors out there, cheap third party administrators, check swing record keepers. And everyone, if you think about the people that sell for them, they actually do kind of talk a lot of shit about their competitors. Like, like if it don't, don't shake your head. I Mean like, like if when you talk to a record keeper wholesaler, or even a defined contribution, investment only, or even a third party administrator, they love to tell you how their competitors are somehow flawed in some way. And I think that that's silly. Like we, we shouldn't do that as an industry. We should all be respectful of each other and then work together as Kevin said earlier. Like, what do you say? Rising tide rises all boats wherever the fuck it is. Like, that's a much better way to go about this. And then try to sell on your strengths and what you're doing instead of talking shit about the people that you're competing against. And Chad, I know this. Like I still, on this day on the golf course, see, wholesalers do that where you bring up their competitor and they act like there's some kind of like horrible company. [35:21] Mark: No, I'm not, I'm not denying that they do. [35:24] JD: They talk, bro. Like you're not working for the angel and they're all working for the Devils. Like you all are just working for different companies. Kevin, you look like you ever thought, give it to me and then we're going to play a game. [35:37] Kevin Spayeth: Oh, I just lost my thought being called on. Yeah, no, it's, it's all about, you know, when I was on American Planet, they always stress to us, we always sell ourselves and we never sell against each other again. Don't talk to someone else. We always sell our strengths. [35:54] JD: And I like that they did that. [35:56] Kevin Spayeth: Cool. [35:56] JD: For Capital Group. Is that the corporate name? [36:00] Kevin Spayeth: The Capital Group companies sponsor presenting American funds. [36:04] JD: Good. Good for that. [36:05] Justin: Ever hippie. [36:07] JD: I'm glad that they said that. I appreciate that. From a large corporation. I think that's a good ethos to follow. All right, let's. You know, I, I don't only run three companies. I also am the inventor of several phenomenal segments on this show. And, and one of them is the totally original no for Dope game. Woo. Sorry, I'm. I'm chatting. Woohoo giants. Let's go. All right, I got some noer dopes for you guys. And this gets difficult because we've been doing this for 10 years and it's always been nope or dope. Right, Mark? [37:12] Chad: No. [37:13] JD: And so you run out of options. You don't know what to do anymore. But I got one for you. You wear that little short sleeve color shirt. I think this is my example. Buttoning it all the way to the top. Like the top button. Kevin, no. Is that why. And explain why. [37:34] Justin: Name is Jeff. [37:35] Kevin Spayeth: I gotta let it breathe, man. [37:39] JD: Justin, I'm going straight to you. Is that what my name is? Jeff. Did. Did he have the top button? [37:43] Chad: Well, it was. [37:44] Justin: It was his next character. [37:46] JD: Oh, yeah, right. Because he was. Yeah. [37:50] Mark: Oh, my gosh. How quick are you, [37:54] JD: Justin? Seriously though, silent J, Is there ever an appropriate time to, like, button that top button? [38:01] Justin: I think it's a culture thing. And for that culture great me. Not really. I can't do it. [38:07] JD: Yeah, that seems awkward. All right, are we. [38:11] Chad: Are we just talking about solely buttoning the top button? Are you saying anytime you have the way up, any bike, even a polo shirt, buttoning the top button on the polo shirt? [38:22] Kevin Spayeth: Yeah. [38:23] JD: Oh, no, no. I mean that last little one. That last little one. And obviously I'm not talking about if you're putting on a tie or. Or whatever, but if you're wearing a suit jacket and you dress shirt and you went to the top button. Yes, that applies here. But I'm also talking about like a classic polo where you just hit that top button. No rug guy. [38:45] Chad: I'm actually, as I. As I look at it now, yes, I kind of like the top. I like it. I don't know, it's. [38:56] Kevin Spayeth: You look. [38:56] Mark: You look responsible. [38:57] Kevin Spayeth: Mark, I would purchase your game here. [38:59] JD: So again, Chad. [39:01] Kevin Spayeth: Chad, top button. Wear a tie. [39:05] JD: Kevin, you already had your chance to talk. Shut the up right now. Okay. Chad. [39:10] Kevin Spayeth: Yes. [39:11] JD: You. You're a nerd. You rub up against your calculator way too much. I would think you'd be a top button kind of guy. Yay or nay. [39:21] Mark: I tend to buy my clothing really small, and often the top button won't even close around my neck. So I'm. I'm a no. I'm a no. It feels choking and restrictive. [39:33] JD: Okay. [39:34] Chad: I don't. I don't like how it feels, but the look is actually not bad. [39:38] Mark: Thanks for that, Brandon. [39:39] JD: This is a very old school retireholics reference, but Chad's calves are as thick as his neck. He cannot wear skinny. [39:50] Justin: I think they might be thicker. [39:52] JD: Yes. Okay, all right, fair enough. All right, next. Nope. Or dope. Kevin, I'm coming to you. This is a personal health type of thing. And Robi. I apologize. This might scare you a bit when it comes around to you, but Q tips. Q tips? Cleaning the ears. Specifically with Q tips. Do you do this? Are you pro this? Do you support this? What say you, Kevin? [40:22] Kevin Spayeth: I'm pro this. Not like, just swab around the interior, not go all the way in. Just like swab around, get a little bit inside to get the. The moisture out. [40:31] Justin: Good. It's. [40:32] Kevin Spayeth: My college roommate sneezed and punctured his eardrum while he was doing. [40:35] JD: Oh, Jesus Christ. Yes. Okay. [40:39] Justin: Jam it in there. [40:40] JD: Good answer. [40:41] Mark: You always. [40:41] Chad: You always caressing. [40:43] Mark: I'm gonna. I'm gonna answer this with a question. [40:46] Kevin Spayeth: He was smoking a lot of grass at the time. [40:48] JD: Wait, wait, wait, wait. We need to pause for a moment. Can we all understand. Remember when Kate, Katie Boyer would come here on the regular? She was a. In the chat bar. She would fucking kill. Shit. She's back, bro. She's back. Okay, Chad, go. [41:07] Mark: I was gonna answer with a question, which is, do you close or roll your eyes when you put that Q tip in your ears? It's so good. [41:18] JD: You sound like a creepy little saying that. [41:21] Mark: Oh, it feels so good. I can't help it. It feels so good. [41:24] Chad: I like. [41:24] Mark: They naturally close. [41:26] JD: Oh, my God. [41:29] Justin: At an unhealthy rate. Let me just tell you, four times [41:33] Mark: a day, you clean your ears. [41:34] Justin: So I have. I have, like, a little tray in the bathroom. And when I go in, if I'm like, just. You know, this can sound weird, but I'll just pick up a Q tip and, like, clean it. If. If I go in there later in the day, I'll do it again. Might be a little OCD with them, but, God, it feels so good. [41:50] JD: Drink. Drink. Passive compulsive disorder. I'm too drunk to say it. All right. Roby Q tips. [41:59] Chad: Yeah. [42:00] JD: Do you sick these in your body or no? [42:03] Chad: Yeah. No, I guess. As most people, as well documented on the show, cotton is terrifying. It's gross. It's. It makes the weirdest sound ever. But. But I make the exception with the occasional Q tip usage. [42:20] JD: Wow. You challenge your fears and you move forward. [42:24] Chad: I shove that thing so far in, I let go and it's just sitting there. It's great. [42:30] JD: Yes, Kevin, I got you. Go ahead. Kevin. What is that? [42:33] Kevin Spayeth: Not a cotton robe. Is that like a poly blend? I thought. [42:37] JD: Don't freak him out. [42:39] Chad: No, no. [42:40] JD: Cotton ball. [42:41] Chad: I get it. I'm surrounded by things that are made out of this material. It's just in the ball form. In the ball form, cotton, it needs to be wiped off the earth. It's. It's. [42:53] JD: It's. Hey, Mark, can I also let you know that since you've told me that, like most things, you're not alone. You're not alone. There is a lot of people that have that same fear. I've seen it. [43:05] Chad: Do me a favor. Grab a cotton ball, hold it up to your ear, and squeeze it. If you think that that sounds normal? [43:12] JD: You're. You're okay. It doesn't sound bad. Rob guy, let me. [43:16] Chad: Oh my God. [43:17] JD: Rob Guy. Rob Guy. Let me freak you out and let me freak everyone else out at the same time. The worst is when you're a long haired, beard wearing dirty surfer country club golfing. [43:39] Chad: Yeah, go on. [43:39] JD: And you don't support Q tips, but your wife's got them over at the other side of your very big grandos bathroom. You know, you gotta walk all the way over to her side and you say, oh, let me try one of these out. You know, like, let's put it in there. [43:58] Mark: Sure. [43:59] JD: And let's see what's going on. And you put it in there and you pull that out and you're like, oh my God. The green, the yellow, the gunk that's sitting on. You have to stop the Q tip when there's resistance. It's not good. It's not good. Let's spin the wheel of ice. So spin the wheel of ice. [44:22] Kevin Spayeth: The wheel of ice. [44:24] JD: The wheel of I. [44:25] Chad: Have you ever had your ears cleaned [44:27] JD: out at the doctor? [44:28] Justin: Oh, I heard it's so good. [44:31] Chad: Oh, son. [44:34] JD: By the way, I was going to do a noer dip of porta potties, but we'll leave that for the next time. We'll leave it next time. [44:40] Mark: Reserve it. [44:41] Justin: I. I think we have lost our guest. [44:43] JD: Yeah, I like him frozen. Let's keep on. I like him like this. This is perfect. It's like a little pr. [44:52] Mark: Can you even hear us, Kevin? [44:54] JD: We can't hear Katie. Kevin. Kevin. If you think plan design consultants is the best. So Kevin, [45:10] Kevin Spayeth: remember, we don't talk bad about each other. [45:12] JD: This is why your employer. This is why your employer should put you in a better hotel. Because you know you need Wi Fi bro to do. [45:22] Mark: Every time I check into a hotel for one of the shows, Brandon says, make sure you pay for the upgrade. The better Internet, it really makes a difference. [45:30] JD: Look at Boyer. Boy was like, kev got that low budget Internet, dude. The movie flop. [45:43] Chad: Look at chad. Chad's over there. [45:45] JD: That's ch. [45:45] Kevin Spayeth: Am I back? [45:51] JD: All right, all right, all right. 401 go. And many of you have not seen this episode because one of our kind of live streaming episodes. But we had the chief executive Officer, founder of 401go on our podcast, if that's what you call it at one point. But the news this week is that they've partnered. What did I say? 401 go. And Mesereau are now. Bro. Bro. Right there's. A partnership here. [46:23] Chad: One row. [46:27] JD: There's a partnership here. And so they're gonna. Mesero now is a 338 fiduciary option for 401go. That's great for anyone tuning in. Mezero is like a very established, very reputable, very long term investment management firm. Like when you talk338 yeah you should think of Meso. They've been doing this for a long time. 401go is this somewhat new Disruptor, a digital type of platform. And again go find that. That episode where we talked to their founder. It was fun. He's a good guy. I don't remember his name but you know. But yeah, they're. They're doing this. They're doing a good job and crushing apparently. And now they've got this relationship. Partnership, sorry with Mesero. I'll tell you what I liked about this and I'm going to ask you guys about this is that advisors will continue to have the option to use 401k GO as their 338 under their sister company GO INVEST. So I'm gonna say as a guy who's usually negative, God bless these. They instead of selling. Thank you Chad. Instead of selling proprietary only they brought in a big firm that does this on the regular and offered it as an additional option. So I'm Kevin, I. I feel like I don't even know where you've been, Kevin. You and your Internet. So I'm gonna go straight to Chad right now like so. So Chad, are you there? Are you there? Kevin? Can I count on you? [48:18] Kevin Spayeth: I'm here, I'm here. [48:19] JD: All right, all right, all right. What do you think about 400k go partnering in Mesero and being cool like not saying hey, only go with our own proprietary shit. [48:30] Kevin Spayeth: Yeah, I think it's good. We'll see what Mesro picks for as the underlying funds. But another thing about 401k go. [48:36] JD: What do you mean Kevin? Hang on. [48:37] Mark: It's open architecture and they're 338. They'll pick their same lineup they are with a dozen other record. [48:45] JD: Why do you say that? They're a reputable firm. They'll make a prudent decision. And who the cares what's in the [48:51] Kevin Spayeth: best interest the participants. That's why we all do this, right? [48:54] Mark: Well, yes, they've got twofold. They got no skin in the game and 401go doesn't have any proprietary options. So this might actually be a true 338 solution where you can be non conflicted in your decision making. [49:12] JD: Yeah. [49:12] Kevin Spayeth: So I like it. I think 401go is going to be one of those rec one of the fintech record keepers that pulls away. They got a bunch of great people over there. They got Sue Hardy from NBS now compliance stuff and the. Am I going down having a bet? [49:29] JD: No, just keep talking, keep talking, keep talking. [49:33] Kevin Spayeth: Yeah, so I think I, I see them as being a, a long term competitor in the fintech record keeping space. [49:40] JD: When you say long term competitor Kevin, you mean like you think 401go will actually like make it up to the level of a human interest or a guideline or a voyeur or an empower or whatever or they always just be this little smaller option. [49:58] Kevin Spayeth: I think at one time or another everybody was a smaller little option. And I think the fintech record keepers have a distinct advantage over some of the legacy record keepers in that they're coming out to market with an iPhone and a lot of the legacy record keepers have to keep changing their flip phones to keep up with iPhone technology. [50:19] JD: All right, Kevin, you ready for this? I had not anticipated this conversation. But you just gave and I'm not trying to attack you but you give phones as the analogy and Justin Silent J, he loves himself an Apple product and so when there's a new phone he's going to go line up and, and go buy it. [50:43] Chad: The Green Lantern. [50:44] JD: It's been two years but, and I'm speaking for the industry right now and this is not my idea. This has been around for a while. Like we're not that type of industry. Like 401k plan sponsors do not search out the next Apple phone. They pretty much are sold for the most part and are looking for efficiency. So I, I, I kind of like counter your comment about a 401 go being like this thing that can attract all this attention. Because I basically, I think I'm saying is that no one gives a, like no one's looking at that. No, no one's a consumer for that is what I'm trying to say. Am I crazy? [51:31] Kevin Spayeth: No, you're not. But I think they'll have the efficiencies that they can build from starting from scratch rather than having to of course build and tack on and do things like that like some other records record keepers have done and then switch course to now go partner with fintech firms. [51:47] JD: Of course. How familiar are you with Vestwell as a company? [51:51] Kevin Spayeth: Pretty familiar. [51:52] JD: Okay, so wouldn't you say that that's kind of was their like business Model in a way. Right? It was. [51:58] Kevin Spayeth: Exactly. That's. That's where they have the leg up on the legacy record keepers. [52:02] Mark: The legacy. [52:03] JD: I agree. [52:03] Kevin Spayeth: More name recognition and bigger market share scalability. [52:11] JD: Chad. I'm winging it right now, Chad. But I want to go to you. Let's don't divert from this, this concept that a vessel or a 401 go could be the new answer to our industry and that all these partners that you do not want me to offend every Thursday night could, could be in trouble with them. Speak. [52:36] Mark: Well, twofold. I think we're watching a serious blending of a top five record keeper, maybe even a top three record keeper space that have a dominance on volume and then you'll have plenty of others that will emerge below there. I'm not naive to think that a big tech business couldn't then make a serious impact and challenge one or two of those. My direct answer, JD would be it would be a new technology that changed the way things are being done. And truthfully, partner deep through payroll or like Veswell has done, found a way somewhat around payroll by being the chassis of choice. Yes, I did just come back from a Hancock event. The chassis of choice for different record keepers. I don't think someone like 401go who has come into the marketplace essentially saying you're paying too much for all your services, we can do it less expensive and more efficiently, is going to be the group that wins out in that. [53:39] Kevin Spayeth: That battle is blowing up. [53:42] Mark: Right now. You're getting 12. Fred just mentioned you get $12 million again of investment. I say again because they've had a bunch of funding already and you charge what they're charging the number of plans. Unless you create an ancillary way of making income, the number of planes you're going to have to bring on is astro freaking nomical. [54:01] JD: We're back to this, which you and I have always agreed on this, which is like I don't understand their business model. Like it doesn't make a lot of sense, you know, but I'm not as [54:11] Mark: smart as they are. There's some other way in which they're gonna monetize this. [54:14] JD: I, I think you don't give yourself enough credit. I think that the Silicon Valley mentality is we build a thing and we get a lot of users and then we get those users, we can start to monetize on those users. I mean, that's the model of Facebook now, Meta, Google, whatever. That's the classic Silicon Valley model in a general sense. And so I Think they think they can apply it here where they can just be like, hey, well, we're going to make this attractive, affordable this and that, and get a lot of people to sign up for it and then we'll figure out how to be profitable. Because Chad just made some great points that no one talks about a lot here, is that I don't think these disrupting companies are really like making honest profits yet. Like, like they're not. Their, their fees don't cover their expensive expenses. Sorry, I'm drunk. I'm talking about guideline, human interest, all these companies. And so they're just. This is this world where rich people back you venture capital backed, private equity backed, and they give you all this money to go do something and you're like, oh, we're gonna go do this and we're gonna crush it. And then they're like, look, look at us because you gave us all this money, we're actually doing pretty good. But then the Chad's point, but it's like, yeah, but are you profitable? And we'll see that play out. [55:54] Mark: So I'm sorry, Sorry, Kevin, it looked like you were leaning forward. Let me make one more point, then we can kick it to you. There's still this conversation, and I'm not saying it is dead, but there's still this conversation of it's about the data. And I just have to continue to ring the bell that we have been ringing for quite some time. I don't think it's the access to the data that is going to be the next wave of value in our space. It's going to be the access to the participant that creates the value. These record keepers that have tens of thousands of participants and growing millions of participants, the access to those individuals to potentially pitch ancillary product is what is going to be the next wave of revenue in our space. [56:41] JD: Yeah, we haven't seen that shoe drop. We haven't seen that shoe drop yet. [56:44] Mark: It's coming. [56:46] JD: We have not seen that shoe drop yet. But I'm with you. We've talked about that for a long time. [56:51] Kevin Spayeth: Okay, well, can I just address real, real quick, Gigi, I'm trying to be present in the podcast as a guest, but I also want to be the chat bar champion. I know I can't work out this week, but I want to make sure Gigi knows that Quentin Tarantino wrote the True Romance soundtrack and sold it in order to make Pulp Fiction. And that's how I funded Pulp Fiction. [57:11] Mark: Really? And we'll give you a dropping knowledge Bombs. [57:14] JD: Oh, wait, he's drinking for gg. I'm drinking for that. [57:19] Chad: I'm hitting the buttons, but nothing happened. [57:21] JD: All right, guys, I want to do a new segment. So this is like we're. We're trying this for the first time, okay? Yes, Robbie, that's how I feel. Your physical action matched. [57:36] Chad: You say the words new and then segment. I get real excited. Just like, just as excited as Justin gets when he enters his bathroom and sees Q tips. [57:46] JD: All right, Kevin, you got Tick Tock on your phone. [57:48] Kevin Spayeth: I don't. [57:50] JD: You fucking little bitch. [57:51] Chad: Oh. Every time you send a TikTok to us in our group chat, I can't see it because I don't have either. [57:57] JD: So. [57:57] Mark: Kevin, I don't either. [58:00] JD: Brandon is going to do his best to show you some. When I talked about TikTok and financial services, a lot of people reach out to me and they were like, hey, you guys should look at those crazy videos on, on Tick Tock and like comment on them. So this is the new segment. [58:16] Justin: What, we have a Tic Tac? [58:19] JD: No. Yeah, we do. We do. Robbie's on there. Robbie's on there doing. [58:24] Chad: But on there yet. I don't have a Tic Tac. [58:27] Mark: Our retireholics. Tic Tac. [58:28] JD: Yeah, yeah, you were on the retire, Alex. Tick Tock. But yeah, let's look at some tick tocks in 401k financial services and let them drive our discussion. Brandon, go ahead and try and play one. I know you said it'. Difficult. [58:44] Speaker B: The 401k was not built for you, it was built for Wall Street. There's a lot of areas within the 401k system that I think are flawed. A median 401k balance for folks that are in their 70s, 60s, 50s, 40s, that number is very, very low. It's not enough to retire on. So it's a flawed system. Wall Street's collecting fees on your money. They don't tell you it, but if you look in the fine print, they're collecting fees and they're making money while you sleep. Also, you can't touch this money till age 59 and a half. So think about depositing your money into the bank and then you going to withdraw it. And your bank or your credit union telling you, gideon, you can't access this money until age 59 and a half. That's my own money. What do you mean I can't touch it till 59 and a half? [59:18] Mark: Take it a step further. [59:19] Speaker B: At age 72, they will actually start penalizing you if you don't take money because they know that you're about to die. They need you to pay your income taxes on that money. [59:27] JD: Kevin. [59:28] Kevin Spayeth: That's why I don't have TikTok on my phone. Because. [59:32] JD: But seriously, like, how would you politely kind of respond to that? Like, I think. [59:38] Chad: I think great Greenfield said it best. No, dummy, it's for retirement. Dick wad. You can't say it anymore. [59:46] Justin: It's so eloquent. [59:48] JD: Do we move on or. Kevin, do you have a thought? [59:50] Kevin Spayeth: You can move on. [59:51] JD: All right. [59:55] Mark: There was some honesty in that. There was some. Some honesty. [59:59] Justin: But you're not. You're not diving into details, right? [1:00:03] JD: Well, [1:00:07] Chad: the context is not there. [1:00:09] Justin: Exactly. So what's that trendy. They do, if you're ever in a [1:00:12] Kevin Spayeth: quarter law and you're on the stand and you're under oath, you have to swear to tell the truth. And that guy told the truth, Right? [1:00:19] Mark: Right. [1:00:19] Kevin Spayeth: But you also have to swear to tell the whole truth. He didn't tell the whole truth. [1:00:25] Justin: Dang, Justin, that's the word I was looking for. [1:00:29] Chad: And that's why he makes the big buck. [1:00:32] Justin: We need to take that video and stitch it with our response to Greg's response. [1:00:37] Kevin Spayeth: I would, but I have shitty Internet. [1:00:41] JD: All right, Brandon, let's play the next Tick Tock video. [1:00:44] Chad: Yeah. By the way, Greg, Dickwad. Good pull, buddy. Oh, man, I gotta. [1:00:49] Mark: We gotta bring that. [1:00:51] Justin: In a loving manner, refer to Greg as Dickwad. [1:00:53] Speaker G: From here on out, this is how 1k works. [1:00:56] JD: Oh, I like this one. Watch. [1:00:57] Chad: Here we have John. [1:00:58] Speaker G: And John just got a job with Pineapple. And his boss asked him, hey, have you ever heard of this thing called a 401k? He's like, no, what is that? He said, well, John, every time you get paid, you want to put some of your money into this special jar. And when you do that, we're going to match you. It's like a present. We want to keep you. [1:01:14] JD: God, you could do this for education. [1:01:16] Speaker G: Thing about this jar is that it's not just any type of jar. It's not just safe, but what happens is you can get investments here. And so now you can start investing in stocks and bonds and different things. And what happens is, when you do this over 30 years, eventually your jar grows and you have money for retirement. And now you no longer have to work because you got money working for you. And so everybody's happy about this, because what Pineapple didn't tell John is every time that they put money in that, it's a tax write off. So they get a benefit. [1:01:46] JD: I want to talk about this. [1:01:47] Speaker G: But also, you know, John is pretty happy because now retirement, he doesn't have any work anymore. He has this 401k that he can start taking money for every time that he needs it. But what they didn't tell John was that hey, you never pay taxes on this. So anytime you take some money out, make sure you got to pay Uncle Sale. So if you like this information and you want to learn different accounts interest. [1:02:10] JD: Okay. [1:02:10] Speaker G: Actually starting an online community and it's going to you. [1:02:15] JD: What's your take on all that? [1:02:17] Chad: Well, first off, I love the visuals. That's pretty cool, I'm not gonna lie. [1:02:20] JD: Yeah, right. [1:02:21] Chad: I, I dig it. I dig it a lot. But I, I don't. I couldn't tell where he was going with it. Towards the end there it was almost seeming like he was spinning a. A positive into a negative somehow. And so I, I couldn't, I couldn't do Mark. [1:02:34] JD: So if you, if you dive deep into the depths of Tick Tock. [1:02:39] Chad: Yeah. [1:02:39] JD: And this is what this segment's going to be about. I guess a bit. You will find a lot of people saying to you as a user of Tick tock that the 401k is a sham and that it is just the evil empire trying to with you and that your employer. This is what I thought was funny. I've seen a lot of these videos and this is what I want you guys to comment on. Where they say when your employer gives you a match, it's a tax write off for them. Those evil. And the way to talk about it on Tick Tock it's like oh hey bro, when your employer gives you that 4% just so you know it's a tax write off. [1:03:31] Chad: Just, just spin it the opposite. It would be like they could also give you a pizza party that is also a tax write off. [1:03:39] JD: Yeah, they're giving you actual money. Very true. Pizza instead. Kevin, you're our guest. [1:03:46] Justin: Never had a pizza party. [1:03:48] JD: Kevin, you're our guest. The video you saw or the comments I just made, whatever your fancy has gone. [1:03:57] Kevin Spayeth: It's again not the whole truth. Nothing about testing or safe harbor or the fact that it's a different way to keep employees around through a vesting schedule. Like when I was at American funds, we have 15 money per capita purchase plan with the same. [1:04:13] JD: You had a 15 like profit sharing plan. Like just straight up. [1:04:16] Kevin Spayeth: It was money purchased. [1:04:17] Justin: Step your up J.D. [1:04:19] JD: same. Same. [1:04:22] Kevin Spayeth: Yeah. And, and with six year great investing schedule and that kept everybody around for A minimum of six years. They don't talk about that. They don't talk about handcuffs. They don't talk about. Yeah, it's a tax write off, but it's still money out the door, you know? [1:04:35] JD: Yeah. [1:04:35] Kevin Spayeth: The way to benefit employees rather than paying it to him as a cash bonus or his W2, which is. [1:04:44] JD: Kevin, can I. Can I be honest with you? [1:04:46] Chad: Sure. [1:04:47] JD: Me and you here, no one else is around. It's just me and you. [1:04:50] Kevin Spayeth: Okay. [1:04:51] JD: And I have a knee. [1:04:54] Kevin Spayeth: J.D. [1:04:55] JD: huh? [1:04:56] Kevin Spayeth: Not like that. Get your hand off my knee. [1:04:58] JD: Sorry. I'll remove my hand from your knee. I have a company and I have a safe harbor plan where I have 4% and I look at that 4% that I give to everyone of their comp as like not a tax right off. I look at it as like I could have that money for myself to buy. Instead I give it to these. [1:05:26] Justin: But jd, you only get to keep half of it. You make so much goddamn money. [1:05:30] JD: Well, I'm just saying, if you recall [1:05:33] Chad: the way this test works is that. So that way it allows you and Chad to defer the maximum without getting a corrective distribution. [1:05:40] JD: True, true. I think we'd pass our. Wait, I won't drink without that. But my point was. [1:05:48] Chad: Justin. [1:05:49] JD: But no, I'm not. We gotta end this. We gotta end this. Well, my point was is that it's so funny to see the Internet slash TikTok say that when an employer gives you a match, there's some like gaming the system and like benefiting from that. [1:06:08] Justin: Well, they kind of are here. [1:06:10] JD: Oh. Go Justin. Go, go, go. [1:06:13] Justin: We're not gaming the system. You're getting a benefit out of it. Let's be honest. You're gonna pay that taxes anyways and want to keep it happen. [1:06:19] JD: If you. If you made a negative. [1:06:22] Justin: God damn it, jd this is what we sell on, bro. Come on. We encourage owners to do this. [1:06:27] JD: Yeah. [1:06:28] Mark: No, we're saying there's nothing wrong with it. [1:06:30] JD: Justin, by the way. Justin, by the way, I want to look you. Justin on Everyone stop. Shut the up. [1:06:35] Chad: I challenge you to ever fund profit train. I just challenge you. Just try it. It's fun. [1:06:39] JD: You should do up. Justin, look at me virtually on the zoom. [1:06:44] Justin: I'm looking at you. [1:06:46] JD: I love you. That was a great comment. That was perfect. Yeah, yeah, you're right. [1:06:51] Mark: Hold on. If we want. [1:06:53] JD: Mark, Mark, look at me. Shut up. Camera love you. Take your safe harbor match and accept it. [1:07:00] Kevin Spayeth: You little. [1:07:01] JD: I'm not going to give you a profit sharing contribution. Yes, Chad, what do you want to [1:07:08] Mark: say, I was just going to make the two statements. One, I like this segment, but I think we actually do need to address the comments that are being made when we do it next time, because people that are going to watch that maybe stumble across this, and if we don't address the false comments or why we're negative about it, then it doesn't do any benefit. So I think we need to address it. Secondly, we need to start making. [1:07:32] Chad: We need to start making tick tocks, guys. This is ridiculous. [1:07:36] JD: Yes. [1:07:36] Chad: What are we. What are we waiting for? [1:07:38] JD: Brandon, play the robe guy. Tick tock. Okay, we gotta move on. Justin, go on. If you got a statement, say it. [1:07:45] Justin: Chad had to comment. You wanted. [1:07:46] Speaker B: No, we're good. [1:07:47] JD: No, Chad, you got something say Justin or. [1:07:50] Justin: No, No, I was just trying to step up for. [1:07:52] JD: All right, we are. This is the longest show ever. We've got the best guest ever. [1:07:58] Justin: Hey, there's no end. [1:07:59] Mark: That's right. Kevin, way to go. [1:08:01] Justin: We haven't reached an hour of time with Kevin because he's been off for like 40 minutes. [1:08:06] Chad: Yeah, we haven't even finished headlines yet. [1:08:09] JD: I have to say, by the way, like, the audience is sticking around, so it's all good. It's incredible. All right, I got. I got another subject then. Let's move on. [1:08:19] Chad: No, no, no, no, no, no. [1:08:22] JD: What? I'm just joking. I'm joking, dude. Hey, hold on. [1:08:25] Justin: Webby has a great ideas. Drunk. Drunk. Stock tips are meant for Tic Tac. [1:08:29] JD: No, we're not doing that. Because recently Chad has been traveling and he was at a. Do we got a conference? Do we call it a Kool Aid? Like get together? I don't know, but he was somewhere and I think it was Hancock hanging out, doing things, and he texted us. I'm letting everyone know he texted us in our group text. [1:09:02] Chad: Chat was confidential. [1:09:04] JD: He goes, hey, boys. John Hancock slash vessel going now has a cool ass tech bro. When you onboard a new client, you just upload your adoption agreement. And for the nerds out there, they know this and it'll populate their system with all the provisions. And Rob guy, what was the response to the chat tax on that? [1:09:43] Chad: I don't. I don't know. What was it? [1:09:45] Mark: It was negative. [1:09:46] JD: You guys go ahead. [1:09:48] Mark: Negative. [1:09:48] JD: You tell everyone. [1:09:50] Mark: So for those that didn't quite make sense of that, what happens is you onboard a plan and all we would have to do is upload the adoption agreement and then all of their provisions would pre populate. Whereas right now we have to go in There. And we have to say, well, what are the exclusions? What is the eligibility? What is the time period for the eligibility? How many hours? [1:10:08] JD: Chad, stop for a second. I'm sorry, Katie. We're going to go to the chat bar. No, not properly filled out. You're uploading the adoption agreement. The adoption agreement is properly filled out. So this is. Katie, you're missing the point here. I love you. You're putting the document in to. [1:10:27] Chad: Go ahead. [1:10:28] Mark: What she's asking is the tech doing it perfectly. So here was my follow up after this in full transparency. I said this is awesome. It will save a lot of time for third party administrators. You can push the data in, it's clean, it goes automatic. The one of the issues is they've only set this up for FT Williams at this point. That's gotta count. So it's not universal for all documents, but it is still the step in the right direction if it can be depended upon. Go ahead, Kevin. [1:11:00] Kevin Spayeth: So is it you're uploading a document or do they have an API with FT Williams? So when you enter the document, [1:11:09] JD: I'll drink your drink. [1:11:12] Mark: I don't know that to be true, jd. [1:11:14] JD: It is true. [1:11:15] Mark: It is true. [1:11:15] JD: It is true. Yeah, it's totally true. [1:11:18] Mark: You can, you can directly push in, you can push in amendments and it will change the plan provisions. [1:11:25] JD: We're talking about an adoption agreement right now. I'm talking about amendments and the ongoing stuff like. [1:11:31] Mark: Yeah, but that's all part of it. If you're able to upload a document and have it pull the data from it and you can then push an amendment when one happens. Happens. [1:11:38] Chad: As soon as we got dirty, the attendance started just, just, you know, [1:11:44] JD: we went from like 5,000 to 2,000 in a blink. [1:11:48] Chad: Yeah. [1:11:51] Mark: So I think it's cool tech. I think we all need to get there. The fact that we have all these legal documents that are structured in the exact same format every single time and you can't then take that and have it pre populate the data that our systems need is, is beyond me. Like we, we should be there already as an industry look at, I'm not gonna say that their tech is, is, has figured it all out, but it's doing a pretty darn good job. Stacks AI has done a pretty, pretty good job doing these kind of. There you go, Kevin. [1:12:24] Justin: Doing these kind of a walking billboard. Kevin. [1:12:32] Mark: Yeah. So Katie, Katie says it's going to challenge the status quo for larger companies. I don't, I don't think it's going to challenge necessary for larger companies. I think it needs to become the norm that if someone uploads a document, there should be technology that can properly break that document down and provide guidance from it into our systems. How many times? And I'll make a statement on this. As an industry, we as a third party administrator collect data. We collect the company name and their ein, and at the same time, the. The payroll company already has employer identification number. Thanks. Mark that. And then the record keeper asks for it, and the record keeper then needs to get it and upload to their system. And then they need to connect the banking account system and so then they ask for it again. That kind of thing is what really makes our space frustrating, is that we're not all working with modern technology and we're not syncing up as an industry because everybody wants to hold on to their data and access solo. Sorry, Justin. [1:13:40] Justin: They want to hold on to it. I think it's all their systems are different, right? And they can't communicate with each other. I think this is a step in the right direction. [1:13:47] Mark: They choose not to. They choose not to communicate with each other. [1:13:51] Justin: Think about what we talked about beforehand. You don't want to share your secrets, Right? [1:13:54] Mark: But also, that's not secret. This is the client's data. [1:13:57] Justin: It's not a secret metaphor. Chad. [1:13:59] Mark: I know what you're saying. I just get frustrated with it because we all want to act like the data is our data, it's the client's data. You can say paychecks, can say, I don't want to share the payroll information with plan design consultants, but that payroll information is not there theirs. It's the client's payroll information. So what you're saying is I don't want to create a risk of sharing that via an open API or an open communication. [1:14:24] Justin: I'm not saying I support it by any means. Like, I agree with you. It should. I've always said, like, all of everyone's different systems create a lot of complexities in our industry. And we just need to, you know, be cohesive with it. [1:14:39] JD: Kevin Green. Kevin. I had to pee really bad, so I left. How well did these guys do over the last, like, three minutes? [1:14:49] Justin: We voted for the chat show's over. [1:14:53] Kevin Spayeth: The inmates were running the asylum and we didn't think it was the bottom end that this stuff was coming out of. [1:15:02] JD: All right, well, hey, do you guys know who the last shows chap our champion was? Chad. [1:15:09] Chad: Don't remember. [1:15:11] JD: Kevin. [1:15:12] Mark: Was it Kevin? [1:15:14] JD: God damn it, yes, it was Kevin. [1:15:17] Kevin Spayeth: I've only got one Comment in this time. Chat bar. In this episode's Chat Bar. But it was a good one. [1:15:24] JD: And so I would like to say that since Kevin is here, this presents a very cool opportunity. We can talk with Kevin about how we would like to distribute something to the Pen Checks office. I'm assuming this. That this is where we. The delivery would be. But. Kevin, you're here. Les, you tell us. What do we want to send to the Pentex office and Chat Bar chime in too. Let's make this decision together as a group. And when I say decision, I mean decision because. I'm sorry. Yes. Thank you. What's our. [1:16:13] Chad: I think I. I think we should hire like. Like one of those food trucks. Like a snow cone truck or something like that. [1:16:22] JD: Nice truck. Good idea. [1:16:26] Kevin Spayeth: Pinch checks. We bring all our employees to the home office twice a year for a big employee appreciation event. We're doing it next month. [1:16:32] Speaker G: Month. [1:16:32] Justin: How many employees do you have next month? [1:16:34] Kevin Spayeth: 20. [1:16:36] JD: Huh? How many? 120. [1:16:38] Kevin Spayeth: Yeah. [1:16:39] JD: So, Kevin, are you suggesting that your position on this committee, this board. You're saying that we should wait till then and do something phenomenal? [1:16:52] Justin: Oh, in and out. [1:16:53] Kevin Spayeth: The in and out truck. That'd be awesome. [1:16:55] Chad: Yeah. [1:16:56] Kevin Spayeth: Yeah. We're trying to get an in n Out truck for the Western pension. [1:16:59] JD: Kevin, listen to me. Kevin. [1:17:01] Mark: Kevin. [1:17:01] JD: Kevin. Yes, Chad. Shut the up. Kevin. [1:17:05] Kevin Spayeth: Me and you're. [1:17:07] JD: I know you're in a shitty hotel. I know when we look behind you, you've got these weird colored pillows and this bed that doesn't look inviting. And there's bed bugs. [1:17:18] Kevin Spayeth: Pink champagne on. [1:17:19] JD: What I. What I want you to answer is, do you think this is the best use of a. Of a champion of the chat bar champion that we. We do this in, what did you say, two months or something? [1:17:33] Kevin Spayeth: No, next month. It's in May. [1:17:34] JD: Next month. [1:17:35] Kevin Spayeth: April already. [1:17:36] JD: So you like this idea? [1:17:37] Kevin Spayeth: I love it. [1:17:38] JD: Okay. All right, Chad, you can talk now. [1:17:41] Mark: No, I love it. I'm flying to Arizona to join Kevin. [1:17:46] JD: What are we going to do? What are we going to do, [1:17:51] Kevin Spayeth: man? You should ask me this two drinks ago. [1:17:55] JD: We'll do anything, bro. We'll spend godly amounts. Just tell us what to do. [1:18:01] Mark: We'll have our people reach out to you to coordinate with your people. [1:18:04] JD: All right? All right. [1:18:06] Kevin Spayeth: Casting couch for Retireholics, the sequel. [1:18:09] Justin: You say casting couch? [1:18:11] JD: I just thought maybe the chat market help out. [1:18:13] Chad: He sure did. [1:18:14] JD: Whatever did. It's all good. Okay, everybody. Thank you for tuning in. My God, [1:18:25] Mark: Davis, it was off the. [1:18:27] Justin: I mean, it was Great. But there is no disputing who the winner is. [1:18:32] JD: All right, who is it? [1:18:33] Chad: Justin? [1:18:35] JD: No. Katie Boyer. Chap. Our champion for tonight's show, Katie Boyer. What the. You won. You come back and just hit homers. It's what you do. Like Kirk Gibson. [1:18:49] Kevin Spayeth: Just right out of the park. [1:18:52] Justin: The chat bar was on. [1:18:53] Mark: It was off the hook. Sherry Fitz had stuck around. Sherry Fitz's callous for my using my calculator was one of the best comments of the show ever. Yeah, and. But she didn't say. [1:19:04] Chad: Greenfield said dick wad. [1:19:07] Mark: He came in halfway through. [1:19:09] Justin: If Will Hacker would have left, he might have gotten it too. But he teased us with that. [1:19:14] JD: It was so right. [1:19:15] Mark: Well, we're 50. We're 22 minutes. 32. 22 minutes over time. [1:19:20] JD: So, Chad, there's an end time. We're over time. [1:19:26] Mark: Kevin's reading text messages right now. People are texting him like, I'm like, [1:19:32] JD: we're about to wrap this thing up. But I think it's funny that Chad thinks we're over time. [1:19:37] Mark: Katie or Katie. [1:19:40] Chad: All right. [1:19:42] JD: Katie Boyer is a chap. Our champion tonight. We're gonna send her free singing lessons in whatever town she lives in. She needs it. [1:19:53] Mark: No. [1:19:54] JD: Hey, you guys. [1:19:56] Justin: I think we need a reunion in Nashville, guys. [1:20:00] Chad: Oh, I don't think. I was 85. [1:20:04] Mark: That's pretty special. Katie was amazing. [1:20:06] JD: All right, Katie. [1:20:08] Justin: You don't get the chat bar champion if you don't talk to everyone. [1:20:12] Kevin Spayeth: The key to surviving Nashville a night in Nashville is you gotta find one of those all night euro joints and get a euro and take it back to your hotel room. [1:20:20] Justin: We. We. [1:20:21] Mark: And then eat half of it. [1:20:22] Kevin Spayeth: And you. [1:20:22] Chad: Wait, we found that. Don't worry. [1:20:25] JD: Kevin, when you say euro, are you talking about like a person? What are you talking about? [1:20:30] Chad: Gyro. A gyro. [1:20:33] Mark: Gyro. [1:20:33] Justin: All right, boys. [1:20:34] Kevin Spayeth: I work for a great show. [1:20:35] Mark: Let's wrap this up. [1:20:37] JD: Yeah, let's get out of here. Just. Great call. We are the retireholics. And this might shock you, but we've been doing this for 10 years. Yes, that's right. Robe guy, Nerdy Chad, Silent J. We all got together on a couch 10 years ago and decided, hey, let's start talking about retirement plan stuff on a couch and drinking beer. That was a bad idea. [1:21:09] Mark: Yeah, Just trying to help. JD Trying to do it. [1:21:13] JD: Play us out. We're done. Thank you, everyone. We'll see you next time. [1:21:17] Chad: Bye bye. Thank you. Thank you. [1:21:20] Mark: We appreciate you. We appreciate all that you bring. [1:21:24] Justin: Her name is when you're here. [1:21:25] JD: Her name is Melissa. Figure it out. Boom. Play us out. That's right. I'm drunk. I'm drunk.