Guaranteed Income Products: Hype vs. Reality | Retireholics

[0:00] JD: I didn't even know what you're talking about. I picked my team though, Chad. [0:05] Chad: Yeah, I saw your practice. [0:07] Justin: That's impressive. [0:16] JD: You're going to have a really, really bad time, sir. This let me up. Hit me up. You're going to have a real bad time. Hello everyone. Welcome to Retireaholics, the Fire Festival version of our show. Let's. Let's talk about the. What is it? The, Is it the elephant in the room? Yeah, that's what it is, right? The elephant in the room. I was gonna start this show by saying, guys, we're. We started this 10 years ago. And I never would have thought 10 years ago on that dirty little beer stained couch that someday we were gonna have the potential future head of the ebsa. I'll drink on our show. I'm not gonna lie and say that it came as a surprise this morning. What time did we get that email, Chad? Like six in the morning or something or. [1:20] Chad: I was gonna say it's like six my time. So four o' clock Pacific. [1:24] JD: And from our guest, Mr. Aronowitz. Aronowitz saying, hey guys, I can't make it. I have to say I went from being a little pissed off to. Then Mark calmed me down with this text and then I had a conversation with the gentleman and he, I must say, is one of the nicest guys and he was very. Since when you got there, Chad, I'm depressed right now. [1:54] Chad: I've got ice cream. I'm in my jammies. He was up. [1:59] JD: No, he's, he's great. I think he's doing a great job. He was very sincere and all I can say is he gave me the details on why he couldn't come, which I don't need to go into. I actually promised I wouldn't, but it's not going to surprise anyone. It's all. It's what you would think. You know, at this point it's probably not a good idea for him to come on here given that he still needs to go in front of the. Is it the Senate ego in front of for confirmation. So anyways, what was the. The gift that Justin sent. Sent to us from the comic. [2:33] Mark: Got you. [2:33] JD: Gotcha. Yeah. So you, you know what the best shows on retire are the ones without the guests. Anyways, so. And I do, I will say this right now, based on my conversation. There will be a day when he will be on this show. It's just not going to be today. And all the prep we did to make sure he's going to be here didn't work because we had a lot of prep. He. He gave us thumbs up, like, three times. Total disaster. [3:05] Justin: But I will say this, jd, I. I think the. The unfortunate part, obviously, with him not being here is obvious, but you kind of spoke that into existence the minute he said he was in, like, you [3:23] Chad: know, the minute he was nominated. I think. I think. I think you're right. [3:29] Justin: You. I think you. I think as much as we're bummed about it, we almost, like, saw it coming, but to happen the morning of I think just makes it that much worse. Yeah. [3:37] JD: Yeah. So let's. Let's stay in this serious, somber mode. I've got a song I'd like to sing, and it's a serious one. So here we go. Let me know if you can hear the. [3:53] Mark: Sorry, your volume just peaked. [3:55] JD: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, we got this. We got this mic real quick. [4:01] Mark: There we go. You were beatboxing for a moment there, too. [4:05] JD: Okay. And here we go. Hear that? All right. [4:13] Chad: Nope. [4:16] JD: Yeah, Put your original sound on. You guys hear that? All right. [4:25] Justin: Yeah. [4:26] Chad: Oh, yeah. [4:27] JD: Okay, here we go. Let's try. I can feel it coming and it ain't right all lies? You've been selling bullshit all this time all lies. I can feel it coming and it ain't all right. All l. All eyes. Well, I saw that you were stealing I will not lend a hand I've seen your pep before, my friend and I know that it is such a scam Well, I was there and I saw your conflicts I saw it with my fiduciary eyes so you should stop with your spin your pooling is a sin it's all been a pack of lies. You're a fucking pep. And you're a piece of shit. You dick. All right, I'm done. The drums. Oh, sorry. Hang on. Turn this off. The drum. So far off. [6:32] Chad: Wow, the drum. I didn't know you were going there. You spun it on me. [6:38] Mark: You did. [6:39] Justin: Now I think you need to write a new song. I really like your. Your spin there on Fiduciary Eyes. I think instead of a Hungry eyes, you know that Dirty Dancing song? You need to do that next time, cover that and call it fiduciary Eyes. [6:53] JD: I would like that. I would like that. Let's. Let's get it started. Let's. Let's spin the wheel of ice. Brandon. Let's spin the wheel of ice. Most good shows. [7:03] Mark: Can you not acknowledge Will's comment? [7:06] JD: The wheel of. I almost just opened mine without even means. [7:12] Chad: You know, it's you, buddy. [7:13] JD: Yeah. [7:14] Justin: Rig. [7:15] Chad: Rig seems about right for today. [7:18] Mark: We don't have a guest to talk us through stuff. [7:20] Chad: Cheers, gentlemen. [7:26] JD: Oh, rookie move. Mine was in the fridge. God damn it, it's cold. [7:33] Chad: I think if we had a percentage for who wins the race. I'm. I'm. I've got a high close ratio. [7:39] Justin: You're. [7:40] Mark: You're a close second. [7:42] JD: Brandon. Let's get to headlines. There's much to discuss. [7:53] Justin: Dude, Justin, you were drinking smeared off. Ice is out of can. Well, what do we need? We need we cans. [8:02] JD: If you were perusing the Internet today and you went to napanet.org and I think I owe two drinks. [8:12] Justin: Yeah. I gotta catch you up. [8:15] JD: You would read a titled an article that said retirement income products are starting to take off in a big way. Well if you then kind of perused your way over to foreign case Specialist magazine, both these articles written on the same day, March 20, you would read the title offering guaranteed income not as essential as initially. Initially perceived. So place is telling you that stuff's popping off. The other one is telling you it's not popping off. Odd little world we live in. Why don't I ask you guys? You're on the front lines. Is this popping off? Are you seeing the stuff happening in your small to mid market? [8:58] Mark: Who. Who are the people saying it's popping off? [9:00] JD: Woolney sand is popping off. [9:03] Chad: That's not what the article said, by the way. [9:07] JD: And cerule. Is that how you pronounce it? [9:11] Mark: I don't know about the boys, but I. It's. It's not a hot topic conversation down [9:15] JD: here for me and the record keeper. The wholesalers aren't trying to shove this down your guys's throats at all. [9:22] Mark: Nope. [9:22] Chad: At all. [9:23] Mark: They're trying to get participant assets in retirement. That's what they're focused on. [9:27] JD: Yeah. So I don't know. [9:29] Chad: I'll say the, the only article I didn't get the impression that they were saying it was popping off. They're saying that we're seeing more traction, we're seeing more flows, but we're not seeing more demand like those that are already using it are using it. And we're not seeing a whole lot change outside of that. I have had it brought up in conversation on a larger plan recently and to Woolney's point, it was probably my, my favorite point in the article. Maybe, maybe the only one that I really took a lot of value in, which is it hasn't. It's no longer about. Is some sort of guaranteed income product. Right. It's what type of guaranteed income product is right when it has been brought up and it's usually by an advisor who has me recently met with a wholesaler. That's been the, that's been the common denominator is like look, I know I need to be focused on this. I know I need to be educated on it. I think now I'm at the point where I just need to look at the different options from the different record keepers and figure out what I should do. [10:29] JD: I was going to kind of move on but. But you said that you know, you need to, to know about it or have it. That other article is kind of saying a lot of people just aren't interested in it and other people are saying it seems sketchy to them. Like it seems they don't trust it, they don't like the fees that are involved in it. Like so. [10:51] Chad: True, true. [10:52] JD: Okay. [10:54] Mark: Right. [10:54] Chad: I mean that's, that's the stigma still and it has been this whole time is that it's expensive. I think, I think for a moment we have to distinguish between the two products that people intertwine here. Your guaranteed income and your lifetime income type solutions. A guaranteed rate of return as you, as you invest is something that most plans need and want. Some sort of lifetime income feature on the back end, some sort of annuity feature on the back end so you don't outlive your money is a. It's, it's a constant point of conversation but every time it comes up it is, it's expensive, it's not transparent and I don't think we really need it. But it continues to come up in the advisor community. It's not coming up in plan sponsors, not coming up in client meetings. It's coming up in discussions with advisors and then they're choosing not to present it to the client because they don't. [11:48] JD: Which is odd. You would kind of think advisors would be almost less motivated to sell it. If I was an advisor and I was running a good practice, I would kind of want rollovers and stuff versus leaving plant money in the plans that are doing guarantee. I don't know. Maybe that's not true. [12:07] Chad: No, that's an interesting. That's actually not a path I've gone down. That's a really interesting point. [12:13] JD: I do not have the energy to talk about guaranteed income. It just really doesn't get my, my boat floating if you will. So let's move on to. [12:21] Justin: We'll hold really real quick just because I, I think it's kind of funny that the articles were posted on the same day. So in our, in our industry, right, I mean it's pretty tight knit. A lot of people are running around the same circles. I mean I'm just more interested in like, dude, what's going on behind the scenes of this kind of stuff and who's talking to who and what kind of shit's being stirred for this to, I think to be like a, almost like a proactive reaction instead of having to defend, you know, like it's interesting. [12:53] JD: That's exactly what happened. Robey is, Brian Anderson is, I think he's here in the, in the audience and he went on the national association of Plan Advisors website. He saw them doing a positive thing on guaranteed income and he quickly ran out and got on the phone with Cerule is like, let's do the opposite. Which I like that strategy. If they zig, you zag. So good job. Brian Anderson, plan advisor.com and that's plan Advisor with an E. For everyone out there who wants to know how they spell it has an article titled John Hancock Retirement announces suite of Advisor with an E. Again of course. I mean you got to spell it that way if you're on their website, advice on your plan solutions. By the way, Wayne park at John Hancock, can you please respond to my LinkedIn message at some point, what do we got going on here? They came out with their, their kind of collab vest, well product several weeks ago we talked about this. They were talking like they were, oh God, come on guys, give me a break. They were talking about, they were talking about the fact that they wanted to be technology forward. That they wanted to be technology forward. Right. And I believe that it seems to be more of that same story here in reading this article that they've got this new product that's coming out and when you listen to Wayne park, he's saying we want to be the partner of choice for intermediaries. And when I read into that, I feel like he means not just advisors and third party administrators, but like potentially wellness solutions, alternative investment options, who knows what. Is that the vibe you're getting from Hancock these days? That, that they, they want to reinvent themselves in that or is this simply we just want to have something that's not a group annuity? [14:59] Chad: Definitely the last point there. What's, what's probably most interesting and I'm not going to get anybody thrown under the bus here, but I chat with wholesalers around the country and every single one will say the same thing. It's all just air, right? Now we're trying to, we're trying to throw a bunch of darts and see what hits and, and then we'll start running with it. But none of the wholesalers are interested in the Veswell product. None of the wholesalers have shown any interest in the rebranding. None of them are out there touting the, the, the new evolution of their tech forward offering. They are all excited to bring some navigation dang solution. That was a close stall. [15:45] Justin: Letters of three. [15:46] Chad: He said some sort of security style product to the microspace because they've been a group annuity the entire time. [15:57] JD: That's an interesting point though, Chad. Is that, isn't that funny how a large corporation can sit in their fancy boardrooms and come up with like a marketing direction, a new product and a new vision. But if, if your troops don't buy into it, then things don't really change on the front line. [16:15] Justin: Couldn't they come up with a cooler name or something better than that? [16:21] Mark: Company names. [16:22] Chad: I think that manual life around the world is huge. [16:26] JD: Are we getting to the names? We're talking product still? I think Future Choice. And then what. What was the other one? [16:33] Justin: Future Step. [16:34] JD: Okay. [16:35] Mark: Is that what it was? They got real creative with that, huh? [16:37] JD: Got that future vibe. [16:39] Justin: I always have that thought and I want to be the fly on the wall when they're like that one. Like what? It's like I'd be like, no, no, no. We're coming back tomorrow with some new ideas. This is not anything cool. Like let's, let's try this again. [16:56] Chad: Here would be my, my overall thought. JD on this push, I, I have, I have met Wayne a couple of times. [17:06] JD: You met him and you know, he won't even respond to my message. Go on. [17:10] Chad: Because of the, the Hancock events that I go to. He's there. He'll be there in 10 days, albeit another one. He is a Jackson Hole. He's a visionary. He is a visionary and he has got a, a great background. An awesome story. He is a believer. He understands our space well. I do strongly believe they're making the right decisions. I just. To your point, I just think he's got to get the people that are on the streets to understand what he's trying to do. And they haven't done that in any of these changes. [17:45] JD: I mean these wholesalers very much feel like entrepreneurs. I feel like they, they feel like 1099 employees in a way. They're their own people that run their own games and their own strategies. They, they don't tend to have to listen to corporate that much, so long as they sell and bring in assets. And that's a bummer because. [18:03] Chad: And they are fearful of burning those strategic partnerships that he's mentioning. So he's talking about being that. That product of choice. Well, they're afraid to burn those relationships by specifically the Veswell offering. I got a bunch of calls after the show that we talked about that went on and we talked for 30 seconds about it, and wholesalers calling, saying, hey, that we're not pushing that product. Don't worry about it. We're still using signature. [18:28] Mark: I think they're saying that just because they're. They're nervous about us being reactive to that. [18:33] Chad: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. [18:36] Mark: Justin, are they pushing it behind the scenes, though? [18:38] Justin: Are they. [18:39] Mark: Are they just, you know, telling us what. What they want to hear, what we want to hear? [18:43] Chad: No. I mean, as of right now, I would say no, they're not, because the majority of their business, vast majority, is being written through third party administrators. They need us as a referral source. Probably does better than any other record keeper, leveraging us as a center of influence for referrals. [19:01] JD: Justin, I, I thought you were gonna say that they're not selling the Vestwell collab because that would tune people into Vestwell and then I can't sell it right now anyways. [19:16] Chad: Huh? [19:16] Justin: Only. It's only select markets and select people who can sell it right now. It's not. [19:21] JD: Well, that's a good point. It's not really out there in full yet, but that isn't it. Let me finish that point though. Let's say if it gets to that point, as a wholesaler, why would I sell your product with a competitor? Because now I'm fearful that my advisors I work with are going to fall in love with that competitor and they go, well, let me go check out their own proprietary product where they're all on their own. Like, you know, how greedy those sorry wholesalers, they don't want to. With. They don't want to move their cheese, you know, like, totally hear what you're saying. [19:52] Mark: And I, I don't disagree. But at the same time, the company started that partnership. I mean, is that really a big concern? I mean, if that was a serious concern, they wouldn't have done that partnership. [20:03] JD: Well, they can make bad decisions, bro. [20:06] Mark: That's a big bad decision to make. [20:08] Chad: I have to imagine what they've done. If you look at the evolution. And Tony just said, follow the money. So let me try to do it with you for a second. Tony. [20:14] Justin: Wait till Everyone sees our collab with future plan coming out next year, it's [20:20] Mark: called an acquisition, right. [20:21] Justin: We're buying them called Future pdc, Future Creative Future Holics. [20:27] Chad: Sorry, you have, you have Hancock doing really well in the micro space and not really doing much in, in the mid to large market. So they go out and they get New York Life and that gives them a solution, an open architecture style solution to start getting some larger plans. And at the same time they realize that while we've been writing so many micro market plans, we have little to no profitability on them. And when we do, it takes many years to get there. And so what did they do? They flipped and they started putting proprietary requirements in, in the micro space, small things, fixed accounts or their stable value and target date funds. And then they flipped what, maybe two years ago they came out, said, hey, every startup plan is going to have a thousand dollar charge, flat rate charge and a per month per participant charge. They had never done that before. So they were all asset only based writing startups making no money. They came out and said we're going to create some margin. I think they've gotten to the point where even doing those things, they've realized with the level of service we deliver, we're not creating profitability. So let's find a way to leverage somebody else like a vest well and create a product that we don't have to maintain that our reps can still go out there and sell and we can create some margin now. [21:45] JD: Yeah, I don't know. I mean we talked about this on a past show. So I'll move, move on. I think the smart thing for them to do and I love how Nate Moody, you know, I love Nate Moody and I suppose I saw his sister on the Internet. She's kind of attractive to be honest. But anyways, yes, I. If they really want to start selling, if they really want to start selling some plans, maybe a creative name change would be good, you know, for the corporate brand and why not something fun and innovative like Manulife John Hancock Retirement, which is their new name that they're releasing to the world. Hey everyone, we've got a new name. We're not Johnny Hancock Retirement. We're Manual Life. John Hancock Retirement. [22:39] Mark: Chad, maybe you can talk to your boy about that next week. [22:43] JD: It is a total disaster. Wayne Park. Hello? Hello? Anybody there? Anybody there? What the going on with this? [22:54] Chad: Oh, Tony just nailed it. And I said it earlier, Manulife carries a massive brain recognition outside of America. [23:01] JD: Yeah, they do. [23:01] Chad: And so the whole thought is if we just throw this on the front end, we're going to get a whole bunch of. Of notoriety. [23:08] JD: All right, I'm gonna go a little deeper. [23:11] Mark: Like Web said. [23:12] JD: Here's. Here's what I think the reason might be. They have a vision for guaranteed income, and Manulife is well known as an insurance company. And they're seeing some, like, domination play where if they have the name in there, it'll work well for guaranteed income and insurance and foreign. I'm making shit up. Okay, let's move on. I think Robey's gonna like this one. I chose this one because of Robey. I was on some website and I saw, oh, wow, they're doing financial interview with pga. Oh, damn it. With professional golfers. And they did an interview with Wyndham Clark asking him about his finances and whatnot. And I'll just jump to one to get the conversation started, but I'm sure you guys read this. He says, hey, the interviewer says, In 2023, you took home 3.6 million in a single day when you won the US Open. I'll drink for that. I would have thought you get paid more to win the United States Open. But anyways, okay, 3.6 million. Your biggest 3. [24:31] Justin: 3.6 million is not a lot of money. [24:33] JD: No, it's a lot. I just. [24:34] Mark: That's just a Tuesday for jd. [24:35] JD: Mark, if you would have asked me, I thought it would have been more your biggest single day payday at the time. You went on to have an incredible year. Did winning the United States Open shift your approach, Windham. To financial planning, lead to any changes in your investment strategy or the way you allocate your earnings? And he responded with this. Yeah, I would say it has. I was pretty conservative with my money for the first few years on tour. I remember talking to my initial wealth advisor. It looks like someone got fired. And I was like, we're hoping to do this for 30 years. Let's just compound our money. Aim for 10 to 15% returns and look up one day and be super happy. That was our initial approach, and it still accounts for most of my strategy. But as I've come to more substantial wealth. You go, Wyndham. We've adjusted. We began allocating 10 to 15% of my earnings into higher growth opportunities. Apparently, 10 to 15% isn't enough for this United States Open champion aiming for greater upside. Instead of just targeting 10 to 15% returns, we're looking at opportunities for 20 to 25% returns. How do you guys feel about Wyndham's financial plan based on that Q and [25:58] Justin: A. I love hearing about the money troubles of millionaires. It really like gets me going. It's really exciting to know that, wow, you have so much money. Oh my gosh. What are you going to do with it all? How are you. Shut up, dude. I don't give a crap about this. Come on, let's move on. [26:14] JD: Really? [26:15] Mark: In a prior life. [26:16] Chad: Well, I figured Mark put that in [26:17] Mark: the context like okay, so on 3.6 million, 10 to. Let's just say 10% is getting what? $360,000 a year, year annually. I used to, in a prior life, we used to work in the, in the off road industry where the, the son of Harris casinos ran this off road racing team where he financed the 25 to some odd million dollars a year of racing off the interest here into the bank. [26:44] JD: And it's like, yeah, right, yeah. [26:46] Mark: Like I look at it like $300,000 a year. [26:48] JD: I could live off that. [26:48] Chad: Perfect. [26:50] JD: I made a tremendous amount of money. Tremendous amount. It's ridiculous. [26:54] Mark: I mean, I don't even believe it myself. [26:56] JD: You want to know the truth? I don't even believe it. [26:59] Mark: I hear you hear these millionaires talking about this. I'm just like, you know what it's like, J.D. [27:02] JD: it's like I remember being on a shitty couch when I was like 20 years old or 21 or something and watching who knows what with my buddy. And I was like, someday imagine you get your hands on a million bucks and then you get a 10 return. You get 100 grand every year. I was like, I will live off that for the rest of my life. I will be so, so. And now I give that literally to one of my children just to go to college and live in the thing. But anyways, [27:31] Chad: I like seeing, I like seeing people who have money, what their thoughts are around money because you're willing to risk large numbers. But when you look at a percentage, okay, what they're risking, it's still minimal. [27:45] JD: Let me ask you this. When I read that article, I got the vibe that this golf star is less interested in the stock market and more interested in finding opportunities. I should actually find this many of them are. [28:01] Mark: Isn't that most. [28:01] Chad: I mean look at how many different restaurants Shack owns and how many. All these small businesses, all these, these emerging businesses they're willing to put money in because like a venture capitalist. [28:14] JD: Yes. [28:14] Chad: They're willing to throw some money at things from massive rates. [28:17] JD: Yes. [28:18] Mark: Now that's what I about the. With his caddy, like his Caddy didn't know what to do, but he was already doing what he was doing. You know, he's like, oh, you got to talk to my people to help. [28:26] JD: Yeah, he hooked us Caddy up with this guy. But so that's what I want to actually talk about. And I'd love for the chat bar to chime in a little. Is that advisable to take your money and try to invest it in restaurants or a new golf, you know, equipment that's coming out or who knows what? Like, those seem to me to be a lot more volatile, risky types of investments where you could potentially lose all of your money versus just putting it into the stock market would seem to me to be a far more reasonable approach. [29:00] Mark: Financials out there, all their money in there, though, right? It's a. Like Chad said, it's a small portion, a small percentage. [29:06] JD: Okay? [29:07] Mark: Like, if I lose 250 grand on this investment, I lose 250 grand. I'm gonna make it next year, you know, times 10. [29:13] JD: Okay. You guys sound like hedge fund managers. [29:17] Justin: I mean, the one interesting thing that I took from that was his comment about the utmost importance on having a certified public accountant at his side, because every tournament he plays is in a different state, even a different country, and taxes can be a real big issue. And so he's got somebody who's handling that for him, which I believe. You know, a lot of these golfers now are. Are young, and probably this money's coming to them even earlier than it was for some of these other guys because of college and other. Other things that I think if we could give one recommendations, not only just choose your people wisely, but have the right people in place and have the people who are going to actually guide you to make sure that your money is sound for when you actually are spending it. [30:11] JD: Of course, especially when you talk about what you brought up, which is the tax situation, because I think there's a. There's a certified public accountant or your tax guy, and then different from that is your investment guy. And I'm kind of jumping on Kevin's wagon, too. Heaven's bandwagon here in the chat bar, which to me, I think if you looked at a lot of the failed pro athlete stories, and there's lots of them, right? I'm pretty sure, like, most of them, that up over time, it's because they're investing in some little thing that someone told them about as. And that's the argument I'm making. Like, no, no. If I was an advisor for a. For an athlete. I'd be like, hey, and maybe you guys were saying that earlier, let's take a small portion of your wealth and you can risk on some of that type of stuff being, as Chad put it, like a. Your own little private equity or venture capital investor, but as venture capital, be better, but let's put the rest of in the stocks. You know, nice balanced portfolio. Anyways, tell me I'm wrong. Advisors. Oh, can I share some wonderful news? [31:18] Justin: No. [31:19] Chad: Yes, please. [31:20] Justin: I offered good news. [31:22] JD: As of the. As of the end of this month, I plan to no longer be a Series 6 registered representative. I plan to leave my broker dealer and be done with my licensing forever. Very happy about that. [31:40] Chad: You still have to keep your insurance licensing though, right? Because that's the way the record. No, the record keepers and the TPA rep damn revenue share isn't based upon insurance licensing anymore. [31:52] JD: I don't have anything that's paid through insurance. So anyways, I'm done with that and I'm very excited about that. Yeah, I had a broker dealer. It's a long. [32:02] Chad: No, Kevin, we're not a producer. [32:05] Justin: Why would you answer that? [32:08] JD: No, no, no, no. [32:10] Chad: Good for you for asking though, Kevin. But no, we're not. [32:14] Justin: That was some. [32:14] Mark: Some good rev you were receiving though. [32:16] JD: No, no, I've whittled it all away. It's all. It's all been pushed away. I just had to like move a couple. Anyway, we're. Yeah. This is not important, okay. For me. I'm tired. [32:27] Justin: Can you tell us how you allocate your wealth just so we're on the same topic? [32:31] Chad: Remember he. His emerging markets holdings like 10 or 11 years ago? [32:36] JD: Remember I moved. I used. I used to go all. [32:42] Mark: Oh, just going into it. That was awesome. [32:48] JD: Wow. Are we really doing this? Jesus. [32:53] Chad: I'm saying that's JD's new investment strategy. [32:57] Mark: He puts all his money. [32:58] Chad: Yeah. [32:59] Mark: So my original was like the Oscar, you know, Stop. You know, shut up. We're moving on. [33:04] JD: My original strategy was I would put all my money in diversified emerging markets. And then now I'm in tech, bro. I've just been in tech. I put it all in. I'm just like Wyndham. I like to, you know, fly on the risky side of things. Okay, we covered that. We covered that. We covered that. It's time for not drunk stock tips. It's time for everybody's favorite game. And it's not lamer game. It's Noper dope. [33:38] Chad: I'm so proud of you. [33:42] Mark: I mean, we can't beat the Intro. I mean, that. That sounds like a classic Blink song right there. Anyone else agree with that? [33:59] JD: Yeah, how about. How about Blink 182 getting past all of their. All of their dislikes of each other to get out there as old, middle aged men and make millions of dollars on a world tour. Good for them. Good for them. Yes. I should do that one Tony Lamer game, which by the way, I literally posted on the Internet Lamer game instead of no bur dope. And Mark was like, what am I up this week? And I'm like, no, I just up a typo. Yeah, not having your guest show up for the show. That's. [34:38] Chad: I'm game for that. This is awesome, guys. [34:41] JD: You know what my dream was? [34:43] Mark: An intro. [34:44] JD: In a weird way, my dream was how cool would this had been if he did. He did the show and then he was like in front of the Senate and some democratic, like, you know, D.C. type. Our drink brought up a clip was like, oh, you think we should confirm you. You were on this show. They were cussing, drinking beer. Look at the homeless guy. Like, what the. I would have been going like, boys, we've made it. We've made it. I've been booking like Fox News interviews and it would have been awesome. Okay, Lamer game. No, for now, there it is. [35:31] Chad: There it is. [35:32] Mark: Like, just admit. [35:33] JD: Admit it. I'm gonna. Justin, I'm gonna go to you first. [35:36] Justin: All right? [35:37] JD: I hated this my whole life and. And now my emotions have changed. You're going down the restaurant, you're getting some nice sushi. Sake. Sake. They bring up the little ceramic thing. You can get it hot or cold. And whether you like it or don't like, I'd love to know whether you like hot or cold. Are you in on this thing or not? [35:58] Mark: I. I can't do sake, dude. The one and only time I did not know how I got home from the bar. [36:03] JD: But you got wasted off event was off. [36:06] Mark: One and only time, I blacked out not knowing how I got home from the bar. [36:11] Justin: And Tuesday for me, buddy. [36:13] Mark: I know it is, but still. Chad Dorn, boss. That night, the only time I've ever been drawn on because I passed out at the house that we went back to. We were house sitting for a friend's boss. I threw up in the baby's room. It was terrible. I don't drink. [36:25] Justin: Oh, in the crib? [36:27] Mark: No, just in the. On the floor. [36:29] JD: So I was kind of adjusting. Oh, Justin's saying he just gets wasted off of it. That's weird. I I just thought it was gross. Like, I didn't know you could get it cold. I always thought it was warm. I finally got it cold, and I fell in love with it. Robyn. Sake, it's all about. [36:45] Justin: It's all about the vibes. If you go somewhere and it's like they're. They're doing, like, the sake bombs. [36:51] JD: Well, they. [36:52] Justin: They. They put it on. No, it's on the chopsticks. Then you hit the table. Disastrous mess. Those places. I'm all in. Because you're not even there to, like, taste the sake. You're just doing it for the experience. But, no, I'm not gonna sit there and sip it now. I don't think I've ever had sake by itself. [37:13] JD: And, Chad, where I go, it's not sucky, sucky bomb. Where I go, they go, sucky, sucky bomb, bomb, bomb. [37:22] Chad: I shorten it for the sake of airtime. [37:25] JD: Are you into the stuff? Do you like it? [37:27] Chad: I am. I actually enjoy drinking it. So when I'm having sushi, if. Depending on where we're at. But I will sip sake. [37:33] JD: Yeah, that's. I love what Brandon says. Never bought it at the store to bring home. I have never either. [37:40] Chad: I have not either. But I am weird. [37:43] JD: No, No. I am right on the edge of that. I literally walked by it today buying stuff for a later. Nope. Or dope I want to do here. And I said I should. I love it. I should bring it home. But I like the cold and the stuff I get, it's like this. Like, it's in this pink bottle, and it's kind of like a cloudy white kind of thing, and I just. I love it. And I. I. Justin, I don't feel like I get wasted off of it, but I have a very high tolerance for alcohol these days, so. [38:13] Mark: It was going strong in the Alps last week, let me tell you. [38:16] JD: Oh, good. Good. [38:17] Mark: People getting after it. [38:21] JD: Roby. We always like to throw in a little bit of fashion. So I'll go to you. [38:25] Justin: Oh, okay. [38:27] JD: This thing, I can't go to Chad, right? This saying. This item, I feel like has gone up, down, up, down. And now I see, like, cool people wearing it again. I see regular folk wearing this, and I've never been on this, and I'm not saying I'm considering, but Crocs. Croc. Like, they. They just won't go away. [38:53] Justin: Yeah. [38:54] JD: Are these. Are these cool? Are they not cool? Wear them. [39:01] Justin: Your son wears them, doesn't he? No. Again, coming from. Coming from my perspective, I think they're they're incredibly lame. Like. Like, if I see an adult wearing him, like, you should probably question your life decisions. [39:17] JD: But what about the cool 20 year old? [39:20] Justin: No, I think it's kids. Like, my. My son wears them, and at first I was like, no. And then he put them on. I'm like, oh, he's a crop kid. Like, he's cool. Like, he looks cool with him. He's like 6 years old. He's running around. That's fine. It's fine. But no, I think there's. I think there's an age cut off for Crocs. But seriously, if you're an adult, you wear Crocs. [39:38] JD: There's an issue, Chad. [39:41] Mark: They say they're so comfortable. I've tried on one pair, and they're terrible. [39:44] JD: No, you're so wrong, Justin. Chad. Chad. I'm gonna back up Hackler. I have put them on before. Only my sons. They are comfy as. Bro, you're, like, walking around on clouds. Are you. Are you into this or are you not? [40:01] Chad: I am not. I. Maybe they are comfy, maybe they're not. I haven't put them on. I ended up giving in and buying Dylan a pair because he really, really wanted them. Saved his own money, Kind of did dig things to earn them. But no, I'm. I'm lame all the way. It's just. It seems wrong. I don't know. It seems weird to me. Put them in sport mode. Put them in casual mode. It just seems weird to me. [40:26] JD: I'm gonna. Nate Moody. I'm gonna add Birkenstocks to a future. That's a good one. We've never done that. I hate to say this, Justin. [40:37] Mark: Yeah. [40:38] JD: But it's the true. It's my truth right now. You feel like a Crocs guy to me. Like, I feel like you'd be into these. [40:44] Mark: Wow. [40:45] JD: I'm sorry. [40:46] Mark: Is it because I'm fat? [40:47] JD: No, because you're not. [40:52] Mark: No, absolutely not. I will not go near those things. [40:55] JD: Okay, fair enough. [40:57] Chad: I'm buying them a pair for Christmas. [41:00] Justin: They went from being super lame to, like, cool again. And. Right. They. They hired some guru of marketing and branding to, like, revamp them or something. [41:10] JD: And, like, all their charms on. [41:12] Mark: There is one pair of Crocs. I will get behind 100. Those are the elf crocs. Have you guys seen those things? [41:18] JD: No. [41:19] Mark: You know Buddy the elf. [41:21] JD: Yes. [41:21] Chad: Yeah. [41:21] Mark: Oh, God, they're awesome. They're so good. [41:24] Justin: Yeah. Like Brandon said, there's a movie. [41:26] Mark: Okay. [41:28] Justin: I love syrup, and they're like, sorry, purposes they had to find cheap shoes. [41:35] JD: All right, it is no surprise, everyone, but recently, it was St. Patrick's Day. I went out with some friends, and they said, hey, we're gonna order up some Irish Car bombs. I think they had another name for it. Anyone in the chat. Or they had another name for it at this restaurant. [41:56] Chad: Curdling alcohol. That. Yes, curdles your throat. [42:01] JD: And we. I. I jumped in, as I will always do with alcohol. They brought them to our table, and I got this today. I got Jameson here. I got a little Bailey's. I got a Guinness. I got a pint glass. Any of you boys got any of this with you? Nope. [42:20] Chad: Happily not. [42:21] JD: And apparently, you drop it in. You drop it in and you drink it. Like Chad said before, it curdles. And I. [42:28] Justin: You mean apparently. This is like, this. Is this new to you? [42:32] JD: Yeah, brand new. Never done this. [42:34] Justin: This is crazy. [42:35] JD: JD Never did it. Never did it. I drank the first one, and I felt like. [42:42] Mark: Have you done Jaeger Bomb? [42:44] JD: No. [42:45] Chad: What? [42:46] JD: No. No. And I felt like, guys, I feel like I had gone to heaven. I felt like I had pounded half a beer but had a dessert at the same time. And my first comment was, when's the next round? Like, let's keep doing these things. And 16 car bombs later. [43:06] Chad: No, you're a liar. [43:07] JD: No, but, jeez, I'm gonna do one now, and then we're gonna talk about the Internal Revenue Service, the Department of labor, and the Employee Benefits Security Administration. I don't know. All right, I feel like I'm gonna spill on my keyboard. Hang on. [43:24] Chad: Yeah, but we can't see it if you do it. Say he just lied. He, like, fake dropped it in. He's like, look, there's nothing in here. [43:29] Mark: Something at 55. Sorry, JD that we were doing in our early 20s. [43:35] Chad: Yeah, no, I mean, we could still do it. Guys. It's just terrible. [43:39] Mark: But I'm just saying that, though. [43:41] JD: Justin, what's up? The lesson you should learn is, no matter how old you get, always new experiences. There's always new experiences. [43:51] Chad: Yeah. [43:51] Mark: Yeah. [43:51] Justin: Ye. [43:52] JD: Okay. [43:52] Justin: I will say shocked. I. Last year, on St Patrick's Day. Full disclosure, it was my. The day after my daughter's birthday, we had a birthday party for her, and one of my friends tried to poison me with alcohol by pouring in a shot of Jameson, then the beer, and then dropping the shot in. And we were drinking them. Let's just say I woke up on my patio furniture in my backyard in pitch black. [44:20] JD: Extra. [44:21] Mark: Is that. [44:21] JD: Yeah. [44:21] Mark: Is that Marco? [44:23] Justin: Oh, yeah. [44:23] Mark: Oh, yeah, yeah. Yep. [44:25] JD: I like. Anyways, I like those. I think they're very good. Maybe I'll do 16 later tonight. My entire career, I have obsessed over the Internal Revenue Service and the Department of Labor. And I want to be totally honest with everyone, totally transparent. When we got Preston, the first time [44:48] Justin: he's ever heard of any of those entities ever before. [44:51] JD: Who. What you? No, no. But when Preston came on the show, I wasn't really familiar with the ebsa. [45:01] Mark: Yeah, there you go. [45:02] JD: I knew it was a big deal, but I didn't quite understand it. So what I'd like to do right now, and sometimes there's a new advisor that watches this show, I'd like to talk about the. Those three entities and what they actually [45:16] Chad: are, [45:18] JD: and maybe you guys can help me out, tell me if I'm getting this right or wrong. The Internal Revenue Service, obviously. Oh, come on. Hackler. By the way, Hackler. It's not always just people here. Live people watch the show recorded. And the newbies do. The newbies do. They're the tax guys. Right. They're the ones that are really focusing on how taxes play a role in this whole thing. And obviously for today, I'm talking about retirement plans, not, not other stuff. The Department of Labor, I always thought was the ones that my clients would get audited by and that they were really interested in like, protecting the participant from the evil plan sponsor or the evil vendor at times and, and having these investigations and these audits. I'm quickly learning that it is the EBSA that really kind of heads that area of, of. What's the word for it, Chad? But like going after these people and, and having convictions or figuring out. [46:31] Chad: Both the Department of Labor and the Employee Benefit Security Administration are queued up by participant complaints. [46:38] JD: Typically, not always, but typically a lot [46:41] Chad: of not doing independent audits like, say, the Employee Retirement Security Administration kind of side or the irs. Dang, that was hard. Or the Internal Revenue Service is. And so it's queued up by participant complex points. [46:54] JD: But yeah, and we, we don't have to. We don't have to Venn. Diagram into politics, but we can if, if, if it happens. The Internal Revenue Service has about 90,000 employees. I actually looked back over the last 20 years. It's. It's always been about that. It shrunk in Trump's first administration down to just north of about 70,000. But even if you go back into the 90s and the 80s, they had a hundred thousand or more employees. And I think that's interesting. For me because it seems like. Well, Chad Singh. Yeah, I think that's Chad's version of waste and fraud. I'm not sure. [47:41] Chad: No, I'm saying the opposite. It's one of the very few departments in our government that can make them money. [47:48] JD: Sure. [47:48] Chad: Expected money. [47:50] JD: Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, okay, we'll talk about that. And so that that amount of employees there has been fairly steady over the last 30 years plus with some ebbs and flows. I'm with Hackler, seems like too many, but we'll get to that. The Employee Benefit Security administration has about 850 or something like that. Somewhere in that north of 800 it was Lisa Gomez who was the, who was the person in charge of it up till early January this year. Said that. That they felt shortchanged there and that they needed a budget to come through to keep all those employees. Otherwise they're going to have to let go like 100 and something. And so that's. Anyways that's where they're kind of staffing is at. And the Department of Labor I believe is somewhere around like 14,000. 14 to 15,000 people. So this is how I want to kick off this conversation for you guys. If I'm gonna go to Roby first because he's the every human perspective, every man, the ever womb, every woman, a lot of people, dude, the regular people, the regular folk. If I came to you and said, hey, Internal Revenue Service, we're gonna cut that in half. We're gonna go from 90000 to 40. We're gonna downsize in a big time way because I'm gonna back it up with like technology's better. You know, it's not the 90s anymore. We can do all this kind of stuff. What would your initial reaction be? Are you in the camp of like oh, sick, maybe they're not going to look at my taxes that much. Or you're in the camp of like oh, that's not good for the. The world, the country, the world, the country. [49:42] Justin: I'm gonna, I'm gonna flip it completely different to where you're going there. I'm gonna say that's 45, 000 people that are now out of a job that sucks from a human level. Like that's incredibly sad for a lot of people who are going to be now on the job market throwing out their resumes and such. So that's where I'm gonna go first. [50:04] JD: That's fair. I'll challenge you that on who pays for those salaries? The taxpayers do. So. So when you're Chad. Here we go. Does it matter who pays for them? [50:16] Justin: They're human beings with jobs who are. [50:18] JD: Now, that's fine. We can be sensitive of that. But also, Mark, how about this one? Here we go. Real. I'm gonna go with Mark real quick. I run a company. My company makes a certain amount of revenue. Whatever revenue I make that allows me to hire new people if I can. If I'm not making profit or my profits are down, I can't hire new people. We have a country that has a massive deficit that is growing, and we are heading towards ultimate failure as a country, which means we cannot hire. And so getting political here for a second, the idea of being more efficient and refining government or making it smaller, there are pros and cons on both sides, but some people believe in that. So to you, Chad, do you think downsizing the. The Internal Revenue Service is a. Is not a good thing? [51:14] Chad: I'm not qualified to answer that. I don't know how many people, how much doing. [51:21] JD: You have a vote? You have a. You are a person. [51:25] Chad: I'll make it. I'll make a comment in that, as I did earlier, it's one of the few areas of our government can actually generate revenue outside of the anticipated taxes because that's where they're getting their money from. So I think downsizing that area might be. What's the terminology? Stepping over dollars to pick up pennies, perhaps. But if there's a bunch of fluff built in and they don't need all of these people to continue to execute at the level in which they are, then, yeah, we got to trim the fat, guys. [51:57] JD: I don't know. Yeah. And by the way, I'm not. I was just trying to make the other side of the argument. I'm not really sure. Like, I'm equally scared. But I just want everyone to know that is possibly the outcome, like it's been talked about. And I also think that technology plays a role here. Filing your taxes is very different now than it was 10 years ago, 20 years ago. And I'm not going to apply artificial intelligence to this as some type of solution because we don't have that right now to do that. But it could be. But if you've ever worked with the Internal Revenue Service, and I have as an employer, it's very old school. It's very.matrix. 30 years ago. And so that's not good. Justin. I talk about the Internal Revenue Service because I was preparing for our guests tonight that couldn't make it the employee benefit and security Administration is also facing layoffs and as part of the overall layoff of the Department of Labor, I believe people had been laid off and now they're kind of in this temporary like they're getting their paychecks now but they're not allowed to go back to work. And so now I want to shift to 401ks and go to you. So now you're in our world that we live in where we have these, these agencies that regulate our plan sponsors and employers and what got 1.4 billion in in judgments or whatever you want to call it, the penalties, fees and whatnot put people in jail last year and everything. Is this a bad thing if there's less of those agents or does this make 401k great? We're less scrutinized that we can rely on the good again, [53:56] Mark: I'm gonna say it's not as important as losing, you know, 45, 000 Internal Revenue Service employees. [54:04] Chad: I don't, I don't think the. [54:07] Mark: Yeah, it's, I don't think the fraud is as, as prevalent here on our side of the, in our world as it is on the, the tax world and people trying to dodge taxes and [54:15] Chad: so you know, go ahead. Unrelated, unrelated in some ways. But I, I spoke at a, an event with a broker dealer today and I did this for the first time in the hundred times I've probably done a speaking engagement like this and I addressed the tax credits that are available and I commented that we're all paying for them and the advisors thought it was hilarious, but it's true. Like we've been touting how wonderful these tax credits are and that we get access to these. In reality it means we're going to have to pay more in taxes on the back end. In reality it means we have catch up contributions that are Roth required. In reality it means the government's going to create a balance sheet. It is a balance sheet. And so I don't mind them looking for ways. And Trump said this when he was elected. There are two ways to get out of essentially a deficit. You make more money or you trim your expenses. And we're definitely in the trim your expenses space of what the United States is spending. [55:22] JD: Because the United States is not a profitable business. We're bleeding out the back right now. We have to make changes. [55:30] Chad: We have been for decades. [55:31] JD: Yeah, right. And so it would be. But at this point we really do have to make changes before we destroy the country. I want to be really clear to everyone, I hate politics. Really. Like when I, when I hear the Senate Congress and these idiots that are there representing their constituents, like, I, I, I, I cannot stand the, the polarization of, of both sides. Like, I really feel like we should be able to sit down and as human beings and have a more fair conversation, a more prudent conversation between each other about how to deal with these things because they're not always easy things to answer. So I definitely don't want this show to kind of skew towards this like, left, right type of argument thing. So I'm bringing up. Yeah, no, no, but some bring up real questions of like, this is bleeding into our industry now. So whether you're for or against the current administration, these things are happening to agencies that actually have an impact on how we do things. And I'm honestly not sure like where I sit on it because I, I've said here out loud that I feel like, hey, we've got a problem as a country in terms of profitability. I think I'm kind of like into downsizing the government. I also agree with Mark and that I think it should be done appropriately. And I hate to see people lose jobs, but maybe they can find jobs in the private sector as well that can be better for our gdp. I'll drink. [57:01] Justin: I'm not saying that sometimes like, reducing workforce isn't necessary. Like, I, I, I understand that concept. I was just thinking about that's a massive number. That's, that's half, I mean. [57:17] Chad: Yeah. Is there really that much fluff right in there? [57:20] Mark: Well, I mean, they think it is. I think that I don't think anyone disagrees with, hey, we got to trim fat. We're well, well overspending. I think most people disagree with how we're kind of going after this as a wholesale and just slashing everything. [57:31] JD: And that's very Silicon Valley esque, right? [57:34] Mark: Pretty hard. Especially with, I mean, there hasn't been, you know, receipts haven't been shown at least. I mean, on my end there's no proof and we would love to see that. But there's one, one counter argument to that. It is interesting to me to see everybody up in arms now. It's a lot more people for sure that are losing their jobs. Extremely sad. But you know, when, when tech was laying off tens of thousands of people in the last couple years, nobody was having that same type of sentiment. It's like, wait, it's kind of the same thing. [58:05] JD: Yeah, it's interesting. [58:06] Chad: Am I wrong on that? No, you're right. And that's something I never really thought about job security in a government position is really strong and stable. [58:16] JD: Right. [58:17] Chad: Whereas in the tech space and sales space. And, like, it's not necessarily the truth. So perhaps it's gotten to a point where they're not producing at the level in which they should as an employee. [58:29] JD: I'm stealing from another podcast that I listen to, but. So these aren't my thoughts here, but what if I told you that, like, half of. Is it half of the gdp? God damn it. Or let's just put it this way. The government employs a whole heck of a lot of people and a lot more than you would think. Okay. And so when I say half of the revenue we make as a country, I think that starts to. Good one, Nate. I think that starts to bleed into, like, private companies that profit from government jobs and stuff, but still, a big, big chunk of people in the United States that are employed are employed by the government that governs them. And I've heard very smart people talk about how that's not a good thing at a certain level. Like, if that starts to get out of whack and you can kind of just as a regular person, understand why that would be up, right where your actual country is paying for all these people to work based on the taxes and the revenue that you're generating from the people, it's not the best. And. And I think a lot of societies have failed when they've gotten to that point, and so we need to be very careful about that. [59:48] Mark: Do a lot of those positions have things like tenure and, like, more when it comes to this stuff? Excuse me, but do you guys know [59:57] JD: to go that deep? I'm sure, like Chad just said, your government job is a little safer than your private sector job. Because in the private sector, it's okay for people to scrutinize what you've been doing and how effective you are and whether you're actually. And. And it's less so in the. [1:00:14] Mark: Well, that's kind of what I'm getting to, like, think about teacher tenure. And I. It's a bad example, but it's the only one I know. You know, once you achieve tenure, like, you can do whatever the hell you want and you're never going to get fired. And I'm curious if that translates over to the government, you know, sector to where, okay, once you're in 10, 15 years, you don't got to worry about your job. And that's where you create a lot of the. The overspending. And, like, we're not being nearly as [1:00:33] JD: efficient, you know, how about this, Chad? How about we pivot a little bit from this? And I'll say to you, let's talk about actual regs, following the regs, and then the policing of these rules and these regs. In our world, you're a plan sponsor. You've got a financial advisor on your side that's trying to help you, especially in a, in a perfect situation. They're doing a great job helping you. Yeah, fingers crossed. You've got a record keeper that's kind of over your shoulder watching you in terms of deposits going in and this and that and putting them in the appropriate investments that, you know, fall along the lines of Arista. You potentially have a third party administrator or a bundled administrator that's looking at your, your deadlines and your limits and, and like, there's a lot of people that are kind of coddling you to make sure as an employer that you're doing things properly. Could we not survive in a world where there's less agencies snooping into our and looking over everything? By the way, this is, I'm with numbers now, so I apologize. On the front side, the, the, the Employee Benefit Security Administration recovered 1.4 billion. We've discussed this. We have 142 million participants in retirement plans across the country. They recovered $5 and 63 cents for each one of them. That was I with numbers. That was not fair. That's like some idiot on Fox News would say something like that. But. So my question to you, Chad, is, would it be so bad if we had less regulation and less scrutiny? We've got great vendors. [1:02:27] Chad: Someone once told me, you don't build a product based upon the fear of what people will take advantage of. And I've tried to believe in that as I've grown up in this business. And I would like to say yes, J.D. i really would. Deregulation and less oversight. But there are so many people that would take massive advantage of it and it would hurt small business even more because it wouldn't be the small businesses that are able to take advantage of it. It would be the large businesses that open up 17 different S corps and shelter money from one location to the next and sidestep their tax liabilities like many of them are already doing in order to get around their fair share. [1:03:11] JD: So don't forget, we would still have, we'd still have attorneys and judges and courts and lawsuits and. [1:03:20] Chad: You know what I mean, Money. [1:03:21] JD: JD of course it is. But I'm just saying it's not like it's the wild, wild west. And everyone runs free. And by the way, I didn't say. [1:03:28] Justin: I think it would work better if it was more like wild, wild West. Something happens, you just challenge someone to like a duel. [1:03:34] JD: Shoot him. Hey, my. My foreign K deposits went in late. I'm gonna punch you. [1:03:40] Chad: I'm heavy for less regulation. It might have been Tony. I don't remember who it was in. In the comments for today's show that had mentioned ask. Ask our who would have been guests why we penalize business owners with things like the actual deferral percentage test and top heavy testing and shit. Like, there is so much in. In our world that I do not agree with from a regulation standpoint. I am. I'm really unsure that minimizing the Internal Revenue Service is the way to cut. I'm not. [1:04:17] JD: That's a. That's a. A big one. And I. And I honestly. Go ahead, Justin. [1:04:23] Mark: Didn't they just hire. I can't remember what the number it was. [1:04:25] JD: Yeah, yeah. [1:04:26] Mark: Before years ago. [1:04:28] Chad: Like to audit and make money for them. [1:04:31] JD: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [1:04:36] Justin: I like the fact that they use the words recover too. It's not like they found it or dug it up or like made. [1:04:43] Chad: So I actually took that mark and I threw it into to chat GPT and said, how does the Employee Benefit Security Administration actually like recover this money? Because I. It didn't make sense in my mind where they were getting interesting. Billions and billions of dollars right. In recovered money from. [1:05:05] JD: By the way, everybody. [1:05:06] Justin: You broke it out into where? [1:05:08] JD: Yeah, I. I sent you guys a link. [1:05:11] Justin: I'm just. I don't like that terminology because it makes it sound like like really good and heroic in a way. Right? [1:05:17] JD: Like themselves. [1:05:19] Justin: Yeah, like. Like somebody had stolen all the money and they're like, hey guys, we got it back. Everything. [1:05:25] JD: That's kind of how they see themselves. And again, you can go to the Employee Benefit Security Administration's fact sheet and I sent it to the boys here tonight. But it'll break it down for you. I do want to be clear the. The ebsa. Yes, Jameson, I will have some more of you. They're not just retirement plans. They're also health benefits. And I think a big portion of that 1.4 billion is also like, really like, this will pull on your heartstrings, Mark. Like, my daughter has autism and my employer is not giving me this thing I'm supposed to get or whatever. Like, so I'm with that shit. Like the health side of things, which is not my area, obviously. My wife just. Just went through breast Cancer, like I totally get that side of things. I, I, and that is a big chunk of it. So we need to be aware of that. They do regulate that as well. That 1.4 billion is not just retirement plans. It's also health plans. [1:06:29] Mark: Yeah, didn't realize that. [1:06:31] JD: So maybe when I gave you that 5.63 number, I was guessing that retirement plans were like 800 tiny million of that. No, no, no. I, I, I went over half. I didn't want to like cheat. So anyways, I don't know what my point is except for like they, they're doing multiple things. It's not, it's not just 401k stuff. Personally, I'm a third party administrator. I guess I like the idea of regulation and enforcement because it, I selfishly it makes my services more valuable. But if I put that aside as a human being, I would be willing to take a stab at what life is like with less regulation and to see if we can just kind of do it on our own with good people. And I always think the fraud and the not to, not to parallel the fraud and abuse of Elon and all this stuff, but I always think that the out, it's the outliers where things go wrong. And when you're talking about 350 million people across the country and all these businesses, most of them are pretty good. You're always gonna have up people in the world like taxes and regulations. Someone can pull up with a gun and shoot you in the head. Like that happens, you know, so sorry, Mark, [1:08:02] Chad: right now my point is, Justin, [1:08:06] Mark: I, I, we're talking about just a question. All right. [1:08:09] JD: My point is you're always going to have bad people that do bad things, but it doesn't mean that you should pull every tooth in your mouth because one of them hurts. You know, you, you, you have to understand there's outliers and, and that maybe a more deregulated United States of America and I'm just Mark Case when I use words here. I'm pontificating here. Oh, look at Brandon's pictures. Maybe it's not that. Maybe it's a better world where we finally, maybe that is the future if we don't change. And that could be really real. Like I have kids, I'm gonna have grandkids at some point. Like if we don't fix our budget and we're doing, we couldn't. This happens. Rome. Rome is not still Rome. [1:09:05] Justin: Brandon. Clip that, please. [1:09:06] JD: Clip it is, but you know, you know what I mean? [1:09:10] Justin: Nope, no clue. [1:09:11] Mark: Rome found [1:09:13] Justin: Rome is still not Rome. [1:09:16] JD: No Rome s. It's just new stuff. I apologize. I apologize to everyone as we wrap this. This is supposed to be a safe space and I hope that when we talk about these things today it is done in a safe way. Like I, I'm definitely. That is not the retireholics vibe is to be in these political camps in any way, shape or form. I'm in the United States camp. I'm in the world camp. Like let. Let. We're just trying to make good decisions [1:09:47] Chad: as a human being. [1:09:48] JD: Yeah. [1:09:48] Chad: Camp. And, and you for those that mention the safe space like you see JD and I and Mark and Justin go toe to toe in these conversations all the time. We have differing opinions. That's the way it's supposed to be. That's how good conversation and development and change happens. You can't just all sit on one side of the equation. [1:10:10] JD: But you all should know that if you're in the 401k business, this stuff is bleeding into your area right now. Like this is real, this is part of what you're dealing with and this impacts your clients, it impacts you and impacts your broker dealer if you have one. I mean this is, this is part of what we do now. And so I wish we could have talked about it with the, the nominee to had the employee benefit Security Administration. I want to reiterate for those people who came late, he was a great guy. He emailed us this morning, couldn't make [1:10:50] Chad: it, showed up in the pre show and we kicked him off. That's why he's not here. [1:10:54] JD: He couldn't make it for obvious reasons that you'd all expect although it had very little to do with to be. To, to be honest with our show and more to do with some other things. But basically he's got to tighten it up right now when it comes to media is the best way to summarize it and he didn't have to a week ago and now he does and I think we will have him on in the future and I consider him to be a really cool guy. So my conversation with him this morning was phenomenal. He was very apologetic and so I'm definitely a fan of his. And yeah, last week's chapter champion was Shannon S. Words. I'm sending her something custom that's going to take a little while and I don't want to spoil it. And so when it's done and it gets to her, I'll show it to you guys and we'll talk about. It's not going to be as cool as Will Hackler's. [1:11:47] Chad: It can't be as cool as hat, [1:11:49] JD: but it's something kind of cool. So who is tonight's chat bar champion? I say it's Nate Moody. And I say. I say it should be Nate Moody for every show that he shows up. [1:12:04] Chad: Oh, geez. [1:12:04] JD: To the future of the world. [1:12:06] Chad: He went from Hackler to Moody that quick. [1:12:09] JD: And. And Nate. [1:12:11] Justin: Hold on, hold on. [1:12:13] JD: Go ahead. [1:12:14] Justin: I hope that everybody in the chat bar can take the utmost offense to that comment, because the one you just made about Nate, nobody else matters. Yeah. I hope everybody heard that and remembers. [1:12:29] Mark: Why should anyone else show up? J.D. [1:12:30] Justin: yeah. Now. [1:12:31] JD: Now what? [1:12:32] Justin: Now what do we got? We just got. I thought when we were. You were getting all kumbaya kind, nice, and all of a sudden you're over here doing whatever you're doing with Nate Moody, talking about his sister, and now you're, like, loving him. [1:12:44] JD: Well, I also want to say, Nate, that I love my wife, and I. I plan to be together with her forever. But, you know, things happen, and if it doesn't work out, if you can introduce me to your sister, I will [1:13:00] Chad: marry JD I will be holding on to that all day wedding gown. [1:13:06] JD: Nate, things can change for your sister too. [1:13:08] Mark: Wow. [1:13:09] JD: And I would. I would love to spend some time with her, you know, in a period of the universe. [1:13:14] Justin: I take everything back. [1:13:17] Mark: No, Nate, you cannot say that you attacked Mark's sister from the start. [1:13:21] JD: It is so my vote is for Nate Moody slash his sister. Chad. [1:13:27] Chad: Your vote, Kevin Space all the way. His comment to Kellen Craig was phenomenal. [1:13:35] JD: Silent J. [1:13:37] Mark: You know, I made a comment that. That Nate edged out Hack with his comments about the four of us, and that was. That was epic. But because of where you're going with it, I'm going back to Hack. Hack had a great night too. [1:13:49] JD: Hackler deserves it. Rub guy. You don't get a vote tonight. I'm kidding. [1:13:58] Justin: I had. I had a. I had a monologue ready to go. [1:14:00] JD: I'm kidding. Go, go. I was totally kidding. [1:14:03] Justin: No, I'm just gonna say, and I said it in the chat earlier, that I think tonight was, like, the most interactive chat bar we've had in a very long time. People were. Seems like everybody's in a good mood. Maybe the weather's changing, maybe everyone's having a beer. I don't know. But everybody was firing all on all cylinders. So I think in the. The. The world we live in these days, you all get a participation trophy from me. Okay. At least at the very least. But, Webby, your LinkedIn post that gave us a shout out for having a guest that wasn't here, that. I felt bad for you for that one. I was gonna vote for you for that. You had a good night. But you know what? I like to flip it on people, and I'm gonna go opposite. Christina Jones had some really nice things to say. She said some things nice to me, and I like that occasionally it's okay to be liked. And so I'm voting for Christina. [1:14:49] JD: Nice. Okay, Christina. All right, Brandon, throw them up. We'll let our audience vote. But, Mark, I think maybe most people in chat bar are putting off those positive vibes because that you. That you recognize because they like the idea of all these government employees getting fired. I think that. Oh, God, Nate, your sister. She's hot, bro. [1:15:18] Justin: Okay, stop. Hey, J.D. can I interview. Since you just learned about an Irish car bomb, can I introduce you to something? You should also try. [1:15:26] Chad: No, don't do that cement mixer thing you sent us a few weeks ago. [1:15:30] Justin: This is. This is good one. So have you ever had a duck fart? [1:15:33] JD: Nope. Nope. No. [1:15:34] Justin: All right, so it's Kahlua, Bailey's, and whiskey. Try. [1:15:39] JD: Okay. All right. All right. [1:15:41] Chad: You just evenly mix them, Mark. [1:15:44] Justin: I don't know. Ask the Internet. I don't know. I just remember that it's. I think you can. [1:15:48] Mark: Zero. They got no votes [1:15:52] JD: tonight. Tonight's chat bar champion. What? I'm talking about chat bar. [1:15:57] Justin: That's how you do it. [1:15:59] JD: Tonight's chat bar champion is not Nate Moody. And. And by the way, look at Nate's picture. Nate's kind of a hands. I see why he's got a hot sister. I see why he's got a hot sister. Tonight's champ is again, Kevin Spaythe from Pen Checks. Here's what's gonna happen. [1:16:23] Justin: Helen will send you your. Your price. [1:16:26] JD: Kevin, we are gonna wait till Monday morning at Pen checks, and you let your people know in their San Diego office down here that on Monday morning, for your past two wins, some serious showing up, you. You text me, let me know it would be a great time, and stuff's gonna show up for everyone there at the. Yeah, yeah. Maybe a truck. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe it's. Maybe Nate Moody's sister showing up to Pen checks. I don't know what. Justin, let's. [1:17:04] Mark: Let's. Let's put the movie on a dvd. We'll all sign it and send it to him. [1:17:08] JD: That's what they want. [1:17:09] Justin: You should send a. You should send a truckload full of donuts. [1:17:13] JD: Yes. I like the donuts. I like that. [1:17:15] Justin: Hey, Jenny, by the way, did Webby ever get his gift? [1:17:18] JD: No, Webby turns them down. He can't. He remembers. [1:17:21] Justin: Didn't you get my idea for that? [1:17:23] JD: Yeah. If you'd like to do that idea, let's do it. Okay, I'm in. Everybody, we are their tire holics and damn it, Webby. [1:17:35] Justin: You went for that. You went for that one. [1:17:38] Chad: Out, Daniel. [1:17:39] Mark: Oh, God. [1:17:40] JD: We with retirehogs, we are changing the retirement plan industry one Nate Moody sister at a time. Tune in next time. Tune in next time. And we will have here as our guest and Brandon, just play, play, play music after I say this. Get it ready. We will have here as our guest on the next retireholics the head of the irs, [1:18:14] Justin: Johansson. [1:18:15] Chad: Let's get the head of Doge on here.