Ilene Ferenczy: MEPs, Mandates & Plan Complexity

[0:01] JD: You have Augusta? [0:02] Ilene Ferenczy: Yeah, we have Augusta. I'm telling you, there's nothing original in terms of city names here. [0:07] JD: Gusta is my favorite place in Georgia. [0:09] Ilene Ferenczy: Yeah. Because of the golf. [0:10] Mark: Yeah. [0:11] JD: Yep. It's going right now. [0:12] Ilene Ferenczy: They're not losing the tournament. There was a little bit of concern that the tournament would yank out of here because of the voting stuff. [0:17] JD: No way. [0:19] Ilene Ferenczy: No, they're not doing it. [0:23] JD: I would cry if it did. Just so we all know. [0:26] Ilene Ferenczy: Yeah, now it's still here. [0:28] JD: Yeah, it's going on right now. We got up at 6am this morning on our coast so that we could jump in and watch it when it started. [0:37] Mark: Hey, Nevin, I thought you and Brian were really valuable. Listen to today. That was good stuff. Do you hop in on that, Justin? [0:48] Justin: Yes, sir. We all were just sharing my login. [0:52] Mark: Okay. [0:54] JD: We were. We were late, so we didn't think Nevin was going to let us in. It's like 1206 and they wouldn't. Wouldn't let us in. [1:05] Ilene Ferenczy: Shit. [1:07] Mark: Webby, there's no one in the house on anything. I'm in this house in Maui with Internet and apparently the Internet sucks. [1:15] JD: You're perfectly clean on our end right now, Judy. [1:19] Mark: Are we supposed to block JD I guess. [1:22] Chad: Never listen to Chad on technology. [1:28] JD: Your hair is fantastic. [1:29] Chad: You like that? [1:30] JD: Yeah. [1:31] Chad: I picked the headset. I had to take a phone call in my. It's very look like Mar from Home [1:38] Justin: Alone 2 when he gets electrocuted. [1:41] Chad: I was going with that guy on the History channel that says everything's aliens. [1:47] Justin: Yes, that guy. I don't even know his name. [1:50] JD: Will you hand me my package? I haven't opened the package yet. JD Quite terrified, by the way. [1:59] Chad: I'm drinking tea right now. [2:01] Mark: Brandon, just a quick check or like two minutes out. We do have movie trivia. Yeah. [2:08] Ilene Ferenczy: Yeah. [2:11] Chad: It might. Might be a little too easy. [2:15] Mark: Yeah. Shan, J.D. seems cranky. I'm stressed. I'm stressed. I've worked really hard to prep for this show, and I'm worried my Internet's falling out. [2:22] Chad: You're like 95% right now. Like, it was really bad when you first joined, but your. Your image cleared up and you sound pretty solid. [2:29] Mark: So Brandon's just lying to me to make me feel better. Take a deep breath. I think you're. [2:35] Chad: I think your boy was lying to you and your son was in there playing Fortnite or something and just got off. [2:47] JD: That's what we need. [2:49] Ilene Ferenczy: Yeah. [2:49] JD: Justin was stressing about getting his camera set up, and I said, just take a deep breath. We're gonna have fun. [2:54] Mark: It's gonna be great, Shannon. That feels so. [3:25] Ilene Ferenczy: Hey. [3:26] Mark: Brandon's bringing it again. Getting creative every week. Welcome to another episode of Retireholics. My name is JD And I'm joined by Robe Guy, Chadwick and Justin. And we're so happy that you could join us today. I've been a bit stressed. I'm here in Maui. I feel like my Internet sucks, but cross your fingers. [3:48] Speaker F: I'm in Maui. [3:50] JD: Shut up. [3:51] Mark: Maybe we'll get through it. Before we get started, I've. I've written a little song for y', all and I'd like to sing it to you. So, Brandon, if you could start it, I'll give it a shot. I was tired of my podcast. We've been together too long. Like a worn out recording of a favorite song. While my pod lay there sleeping I read benefits link online and in the personal columns there was a letter I find if you like smearing off eyes and getting caught by Schlichter. If you're not into buys nothing rhymes with Schlichter. You're making level up. When you're in and you think rogue guy is hot, then with the love that you look for, follow the poll, don't stop. I'm done. [5:34] JD: I want you to keep going. [5:36] Mark: Did it come through? Did it come through okay? [5:38] JD: Yeah. No, we couldn't hear it at all. Loud and clear. [5:40] Mark: I'm going to say that like a hundred million times during this episode. Justin, we've got a guest intro. The guest people out there watching, get ready to. [5:49] JD: I can tell you Justin's intro, managing partner and she. Oh, sorry. That was your intro. [5:57] Justin: Sorry. They could see it on the screen. Anyways, our guest today is a managing partner of Forensic Benefits. Did I get that right? [6:08] Ilene Ferenczy: Yep. [6:08] Justin: Awesome. [6:09] Ilene Ferenczy: You did it. Great. [6:10] Justin: Awesome. [6:11] Ilene Ferenczy: It's there for the Hungarians. [6:14] JD: It's there for the Hungarians. I'm always hungry. [6:20] Justin: Apparently we have a habit of inviting authors on the show. Let's see how many of her books she's going to try and hawk this week. She's an author of more than 100. 100 articles, three textbooks. She's a national known speaker. Prior professor of adjunct at the college or prior adjunct professor, sorry, at the college of Law of Georgia State University. She's on the NIPA board of directors. She loves to cook and do crosswords. She's got some kids and a couple dogs. Ladies and gentlemen, here on the show today is Eileen Frenzy. [6:52] Ilene Ferenczy: Thank you. [6:55] Mark: All right. [6:55] Ilene Ferenczy: So excited to be with the cool kids today. Thank you very much. [6:59] JD: Well, honored. [7:00] Mark: Eileen, we're not all cool kids. [7:03] JD: You're the cool person here, not us. [7:05] Ilene Ferenczy: Oh, thank you. That's. [7:07] Mark: I'm such a rookie. I'm chatting to panelists. Okay, Eileen, thanks for being here. Let's do a little. Little bit of housekeeping. We are going to for sure do the old and unimproved, according to Robe guy. Wheel of ice. Right, Mark? The old and unimproved wheel of ice across. That's where the s Y. And you know what I'm talking about. And a couple of fun surprises. We will be having a chat bar champion today, that's for sure. But I wanted to share with you a quick public service announcement, and it's kind of on the serious side. So I know the show says to be fun and crazy, and I want to continue to be, but I've written down a little something I want to share with you guys. We encourage a party atmosphere, big time. You know, I love that shit, so. And over the last year, I don't think we've had any issues in that chat bar, but last week, there was a comment that was not that cool. I'm going to state for the record that retireholics, and I believe you, our little retireholics zoom community here are all in the support of equity and specifically the support of women in our industry. We've got a stud woman on the show today, you know, an industry leader regardless of her sex. And we have plenty of other top women on the show in the past, and we will continue to do that. We did a little collab with Whippen, so what am I getting at? When you are in that chat bar, don't make any messages that are old school, male chauvinist, you know, don't do it in the chat bar. Don't do it in life. And if you see someone in a chat bar or you see someone in real life doing that, call their shit out on that stuff because it's not cool. Our industry is moving in the right direction, and we don't need any of that nonsense here on retireholics. So we will continue to show support for our industry, and this is how we're letting you know that. Okay? We're calling it out now. If you're Tony Davis, hackler or brand rep, and you want to tell me to fuck off or you don't want to rip on anything or anyone minus the subject I just discussed, please have at it. Get crazy. Get nuts. Chat bar champion today. Eileen, pay attention to that chat bar. You will vote for a semifinalist so whoever is witty, funny, providing value, whatever, they should be the champ. You will send them to the finals. And you out there, you know how it works. You're going to vote for the winner. You're going to vote for the winner. All right, let's kick it off with headlines. Oh, shit. Sorry. ACRO SIN Eileen is a Ross Marino, John Sullivan type. Do you know what I'm saying, guys? [9:44] JD: Yeah. [9:46] Mark: Therefore, starting now, we will play ACRO sin. If we say any acronym or what's it called again? Initialism. We must. We must drink from our penalty drink. I got a little Woodford Reserve here. Oh, my wife's at the beach. This is hers. She's going to know I stole this. She's tuning in. And if Eileen screws up, one of us will drink for her. And maybe we can just kind of rotate that or choose Mark to do it every time or who knows? But I'm hoping kind of rotate and. But Eileen will still keep her count. [10:19] Ilene Ferenczy: So if I want to really make you guys totally blotto, I should just. [10:23] Mark: Yeah, that would be. [10:24] Justin: Go back and watch the Ross Marina. [10:26] JD: It happens all the time. [10:28] Mark: That would be the lame move. A pretty lame move. I just got really nervous. Okay, so headlines. Yes. Nev and Brian Graf got together to discuss stuff. And I wasn't going to miss that for the life of me. Look at. I'm here in Maui. Could I go to the beach, go to the swimming pool, go have a Mai Tai? No. I stuck around and listened to Nevin and Brian Graff Talk about 401k. [10:50] JD: How many times do you think he's [10:51] Mark: an intelligence in Maui? One of the highlights. [10:54] JD: Can you please stop saying that? [10:56] Mark: Yes, I can. One of the highlights I felt like was Brian was asked about Secure Act 2.0, Eileen. And. And he said I'm not that interested in Secure Act 2.0. Not that exciting. What I am excited about is new potential legislation around a national mandate retirement plan deal for. For companies that have 10 or more employees. And this got really interesting. We'll talk some about some of the details about how it impacts potentially the savers credit, how it impacts the startup credit. But Eileen, and then to the boys. How do you think a nationally mandated retirement program would impact our industry as it sits now? [11:40] Ilene Ferenczy: Well, you know, it's interesting because everybody was really concerned when the state started doing this IRA stuff that that was going to put everybody out of business. I got to tell you, I hear this all the time that somebody's going to put this out of business or that out of business. I think that anything that basically encourages people to have retirement plans and then gives an alternative to sponsoring your own is good for us because there's no way that anything the government puts forward can be as attractive as having a plan that you can design and you control the investments and you, you know, decide what the formulas are and you can access the money without having to go through somebody in a federal office somewhere. So yeah, and I think that's true with the state plans too is if somebody's going to go to all that hassle to do estate plan, they may as well make contributions for themselves and get the benefit of processing and everything else. So yeah, I think that that kind of stuff is exciting. I think anything that keeps retirement on people's lips is exciting and I think it can only help us all. [12:33] Mark: I agree with you. I was going to toss up was [12:36] Justin: that, that was prior earlier. [12:39] Mark: Okay. I. Oh, 1.2.0. [12:41] JD: Act the word. [12:42] Mark: Okay. Got it, got it, got it. Chad, Eileen Neale knocked out of the park. We here in California have experienced a state run plan and don't we feel like it's fueled our fire in terms of selling new business, new plans? So how do you feel about a national version of that? [13:00] JD: Fantastic. And I think, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't in the Obama administration we have a national version pass that was then pulled back when the new office and administration stepped in. [13:10] Ilene Ferenczy: Well, you know, I'm trying to remember what it was called, but basically nobody contributed to it really is the way that it worked. It just didn't attract anybody. So I mean, I think that that's obviously a concern, but I think that, you know, anybody with any brain wants their employer to have a retirement plan and any employer in any company that's making money that has a brain knows that retirement plans are the best savings tool that they can use for themselves and why they wouldn't do it is just, I think, issue. It's not a quality issue. [13:42] JD: My opinion as to why is that many of the small businesses call it 11 people often have a few people at the helm wearing multiple hats. [13:51] Ilene Ferenczy: Yeah. [13:51] JD: And the thought of setting something up that required contributions, every payroll that they're not comfortable with and don't understand how to run it, and now they're relying on outside parties and there's an inherent cost for time spent. I think that that's the reason why many of those small businesses don't. What we need to do as an industry is we need to bridge that gap with proper technology, ease of use and not a. Not a huge slapping of the hand when they make honest mistakes that can be corrected. [14:17] Ilene Ferenczy: I'm 100% with you. I mean, one of the things that I struggle with all the time is just that the rules have gotten so complex and they're enforced with vigor that sometimes is not proportionate to whatever the issue is, and it scares everybody out of these things. And so I really do think that there has to be an easier way [14:34] Mark: to do what we do. [14:35] Ilene Ferenczy: And, you know, unfortunately, Congress, whenever they try to simplify something, they make it worse. There has to be ways of doing things. I mean, a good example, this whole thing about the safe harbor notice, right? [14:46] Mark: Oh, great. [14:47] Ilene Ferenczy: We're not going to have to file safe harbor notices except for if the moon is full and the clock strikes 12 and the mouse runs up and dah, dah, dah, dah. And so nobody knows when they need to file a notice anymore. So it's not simple. So, I mean, I think that, you know, if we can get some true understanding of what's important in retirement plans and what is just crap, and then, you know, worry about enforcing the stuff that's important and give up on some of these silly minute rules that can cause people to, you know, filings and stuff, I think everybody would be better off. [15:17] Mark: I agree with you, Eileen. And of course, simple is better for our clients, and they're the ones that are important. But I always learned from my dad, like, hey, this stuff's so complicated is what keeps us in a job. You know, it, like, it makes us valuable to our clients. So it's all the little nuances, all the little details that make having a risk attorney so valuable. Make having a good TPA so valuable. Oh, shit, that's two. But I understand that's a selfish answer. So some simplicity. [15:46] Ilene Ferenczy: I don't agree with that at all. People are not hiring you because if they pass the actual deferral percentage test this way, that it's better than if they passed it that way. And if they use this this way, I mean, people aren't hiring you for that. They're hiring you for the results. And so if it was easier to get to the results, they'd still hire you to do that, for sure. And the fact that so many of these technical issues really don't, you know, they're not being done right. So it's this idea that somehow somebody's sitting there saying, oh, I know that, that the, you know, the code is this big and it has all these regs, and so that's why I'm hiring jd. That's not it at all. You know if it was this big they'd still hire jd. [16:27] Mark: It's still going to be complicated. [16:29] Ilene Ferenczy: The self administered plans, the simplified employer plans and the simples and things like that, those are crap. People are out of compliance continuously with those and they don't get. Yeah I did, I'll take that one. I the simplified employer plan and went right to the other one. [16:47] Mark: How do you feel? [16:50] JD: Whiskey. [16:53] Ilene Ferenczy: Don't worry. [16:53] Mark: We know that Brian Graff talked about the possibility of a shift of the savers credit and it could turn into a government match that I think could be like you know, at 1000 or 400 think of a thousand dollar match on the high end. So that was kind of interesting and nothing I was aware of. He also talked about a part of this potential legislation is and hopefully I'm not botching this is the fact that you could the startup credit, right, that's 50% of 5K. I think I'm getting that right, is that it would be 100% of that and so you could use 5K towards plan expenses. I'm like these all sound like really good ideas and I just want to let everyone across the country know as, as a California, you know, TPA shop. God damn it. That's the one that always gets me. We think that the state run thing is just is just like I said before, it's such fuel to our new business. [17:50] JD: And it's interesting though, I was going to pose the question although it'll derail us on this conversation longer of course of actually giving people access versus the take rate people utilizing it. And I told you JD recently I had a call with the executive Director on the CalSAvers side of things and she said look, we're not seeing the numbers we'd like to see for people utilizing our service. And I said well I can tell you from our side that there's a whole lot more action and conversation that are leading to 401k plans that are happening because of CalSavers. Right. And so I think as an industry if we can help track that to show that these mandates are having an effect, a good effect that would help further this whole national mandate. [18:35] Mark: I think I'm excited about that. [18:37] Ilene Ferenczy: You know what makes me crazy? I'm about to air one of my biggest gripes or whatever is that people are always looking for the answer. Oh, the answer to the retirement savings issue is blanc. And then they point out oh, 401k plans aren't the answer because of this or that or this other plan is not an answer. The issue is not having one answer. The issue is having myriad answers. And so for a small employer who really has no extra money or whatever else, making a state run or a federally run plan might be a really good idea. For a company that is further down the line that they have so many that they can throw at these things that they have employee groups that are demanding it, we can have other things. One of the. I've talked several times with Teresa Ghillarducci about this. Like, you know, why are you so obsessed with finding one answer? You know, 401k plans work great for what they work. They don't do everything. I understand that. So let's get something else in there that does the rest of the stuff. But this concept that if it doesn't do everything, it sucks, I just makes me nuts. [19:33] Mark: The real world is that there's all different kinds of solutions and they kind of work in harmony together and people choose. And I'm with you, Eileen, too. I always feel like when the people talk about their retirement plan gap, and I know it's there. Brian was talking about today going. Because then he really pissed me off and he said that a safe harbor type pet might be a great solution for this new, you know, nationally mandated thing. And I was like, we already have solutions that fit this. We don't need a pooled employer plan to solve that problem. But we'll talk more about that a little bit later. So I think we're ready to help the retirement plan gap. But if the government wants to kick in a little incentive and a little mandate, that's going to just fuel things. So I'm fired up for that. [20:19] Ilene Ferenczy: I mean, there's nobody out there who's saying, no, we don't need a qualified plan because Social Security exists. [20:24] Speaker F: Right. [20:25] Mark: Let's play a little game. Let's go ahead and spin the. What is it? Mark? The old and unimproved wheel of vice. And Eileen, you're off the hook on this one. It's just us. [20:36] Ilene Ferenczy: So I promise to introduce you guys to my purple stuff. [20:39] Justin: Yeah. [20:40] Ilene Ferenczy: Now that I'm not in a setting where I have to watch my language, we call purple shit in my family. [20:44] Mark: Is it a hallucinogen? [20:46] Ilene Ferenczy: My go to drink. You know what it is? It's crystal light. It's purple. Crystal light. [20:50] Mark: Great. [20:50] Ilene Ferenczy: Crystal light. My rebel. Famous to say what adult on the world drinks grape, Mom. But it's great stuff. And I actually, I have a following of people who drink crystal light with me. So there you go. I will send you guys after this is over a forensic benefits law center water glass, because these are just fabulous. And I will send you some purple glasses. [21:13] Justin: Do you have a patch for Mark's robe? [21:17] Mark: And, Eileen, I want you to know I will fill that sucker up halfway with vodka. [21:24] Ilene Ferenczy: I'm actually good with that. And I did think of telling you guys that's what I was doing and just lying, but I. Eileen, we're a [21:30] JD: crystal light family, too. My dad went through his second bout of cancer treatment, and all he could have was water, but he wanted flavor water, so it was crystal light constantly during that whole stretch during his transplant. [21:41] Ilene Ferenczy: That's how I started drinking it as well, is that I had an operation, and just regular water really made me ill. And somehow crystal light settles everything, so I've been drinking it. [21:49] Mark: This episode of retireholics has been brought to you by. Purple version. [21:54] Ilene Ferenczy: Second choice, by the way, the second choice crystal light is fruit punch, which tastes like Hawaiian punch. So that's in your honor. That's what I should have done, is to have Hawaiian punch tonight. [22:01] JD: Oh, here we go. [22:01] Mark: Yeah, more Hawaiian. All right, let's spin the wheel. It is. That's not even. [22:18] JD: Oh, it says work here. [22:20] Ilene Ferenczy: I like doesn't lie. [22:21] Justin: Hold on. [22:21] Mark: Don't. [22:23] Ilene Ferenczy: Get it. Get it, get it, get it, get it. [22:26] Mark: Come on, dude. [22:28] JD: There you go. This was all set up today for some reason. Let me go ahead and pour this bourbon. [22:34] Mark: All right. So, Eileen, Mark has to not only drink a smirnoff ice, he must drop in a maker's Mark. If. If that wheel would have went one click the other direction, it would have been a bad day for me. And instead, I believe it's going to be a bad day for Mark. So that's good. That's good. Let's move on. [22:54] Ilene Ferenczy: When this is all over, I mean, somebody drive him home? [22:57] JD: Oh, no. He's staying the night at my house. [23:00] Mark: Eileen. I don't. I don't pay these guys a lot of money. They actually all live together in an [23:04] JD: apartment there right now. There's, what, nine of us in my house? There's. There's four kids, five adults, socially distancing. [23:13] Mark: Yeah. [23:13] JD: Like we are. [23:15] Ilene Ferenczy: So let me. [23:16] Mark: Let me. [23:17] Ilene Ferenczy: It's. [23:18] Mark: Let me ask you, Eileen. [23:19] Ilene Ferenczy: Dormitory. [23:22] Mark: Let me ask you, Eileen. Client screws something up. One of my clients screw something up. I run off to an ERISA attorney. I bring them in. Okay. [23:33] JD: All right. [23:33] Mark: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they bring to my client and advisor's client several Several solutions. And maybe this is some type of infraction that, you know, isn't to such a severity that it's, you know, something really bad. And then the client comes to me, the advisor, and says, well, I got the options from the attorney to fix it, but what if I just ignore it, you know, and leave it there? I mean, what are the odds that they're really going to come and get me? And when they do, it's not like I did anything horrible, you know, like took money from the plan and just made one, some crazy mistake. This kind of ties into something you emailed me, Eileen, which is Plan sponsors and TPAs. Well, they're all this necessary IRS DOL rules or are they being too obsessive? So answer my first question. How do you feel about that as an attorney? And. Yeah, get my three drinks. Go ahead. [24:29] Ilene Ferenczy: So, you know, one of the interesting things about being an attorney is that you're not there to be. You're there to give them advice. So when somebody has a problem with their plan, there's usually at least three options that we provide to them. One is do nothing. And if you get caught, they're going to slam you against the wall and beat the crap out of you. Number two, fix it. And don't fix it necessarily. Right. Don't necessarily fix it all the way. Then if they audit you, they should have some sympathy for you because you at least did the right thing, but they'll slap you around some. And then the third thing is do a full correction and do whatever it is that you need to do, whether it's go to the government or whatever and, you know, do things right. There are reasons why people choose those options. I mean, if you had a plan that had a disqualifying failure and it had $10,000 in the plan, you might decide it is not worth it to me to spend the money to go into VCP to fix this. I did it. [25:20] JD: Get Eileen. I'll do it. [25:22] Mark: Justin. Keep going. [25:23] Ilene Ferenczy: Anyway, so there's reasons why people make those decisions. Other times we have plans where fixing the mistake is going to cost them more than the company's worth. And clearly they can't do that. And sometimes we negotiate and sometimes we can't. So among those choices, there's times where people will do what they do and they may not take my advice. Now, a tpa, it's a different story. I did it again. It's a different story. If you guys are fiduciaries, then you have a different attitude there, because you can have co fiduciary liability where you're financially responsible to those participants and you don't want to take on that responsibility. So one of the things that we do, if we were representing you as well as your client, it would not be unusual for us to talk to you about what your responsibilities would were and if you are a fiduciary, what you need to be doing and things like that. And like one of the things that we do in service agreements for people who do 316 work is we have an actual paragraph we put in there that says, hey, as co fiduciaries we can be held liable for your screw ups if you don't fix them. So if you don't fix them, we're going to take further action which could involve going to the Department of Labor or going to your participants. So we're not going to have the same relationship with you that we would if we weren't fiduciaries on your plan. [26:36] Mark: I call that tattling. But that's okay. [26:39] Ilene Ferenczy: Yeah, it's better to be tattooed on than to have you become completely financially responsible for their. [26:44] Mark: I don't know, Eileen. Snitches get stitches. Okay, let's. Let me ask you. I'm an advisor. I'm out there. I somewhat understand the role of an attorney that specializes in retirement plans, but how do I best partner with them? Like do I develop a relationship with one or two and what do I do? I come to you with just general questions from time to time or do I only come to you when one of my clients is the bed? I mean, how do you see a successful advisor attorney relationship working? [27:15] Ilene Ferenczy: Well, most of the time that we work with anybody with, be it a third party administrator, be it an advisor, whatever else, we have a couple of different roles. One is that we will be a technical resource for you. And generally speaking, if you were to call me and say, Eileen, I got a quick question, blah, blah, blah, blah blah and I answered you on the phone call. I don't usually charge people for that. I mean obviously if everybody immediately calls me tomorrow and takes a my entire day with questions, I'm going to have to charge somebody. But the point is quick questions like that, we're here to help you with that all the time. On the other hand, there will be times where you'll come to us and you need an answer on something that needs research and stuff and so then you would hire us to do that. So we do a lot of support functions for you. We also do business advice. So I mentioned that we do service agreements and we do that for advisors as well. So whether you're doing administration or whether you're doing fiduciary work, or whether you're sponsoring a MEP or a PEP, or whether you're a financial advisor, we do service agreements for all those kinds of things. And then finally, if you have problems, if the client's being audited, if the client didn't file their 5,500, if somebody made a mistake, if you're being sued, if a participant's suing, we help with all those things too. So it's basically anytime you find yourself walk along and you trip over something, we can be there to help you with that stuff. [28:29] Mark: You just made me. Go ahead, John. [28:31] JD: I was just going to ask. Do you see that people often come to you after getting another arrest attorney opinion. Dang it. And say, I'm looking for [28:41] Ilene Ferenczy: sometimes, not a lot. I mean, we practice somewhat differently than most risk attorneys do. We tend to be a little bit more practical and a little bit more plain spoken. And we find that stays with us. [28:54] JD: Well, I guess what I'm alluding to there is as a compliance administrator, we often get. I got mine. Businesses that come to us and say, this was the results of our testing or this was the guidance we got from this group or this is what our attorney told us and we're hoping you can tell us something different. [29:11] Ilene Ferenczy: Yeah, that does happen. We do get that. Yeah. And sometimes we can come up with different solutions. Absolutely. [29:19] Mark: Eileen, I. Hang on. I'm chatting in the chat bar here. I wanted to. You've made me feel a lot better over the course of my career. I have reached out to many of your peers and wrote in an email asking them for their kind of opinion or guidance or vibe on something. And I always feel like shit because I'm like, this is a big time attorney. They got a lot of work to do and I'm asking them for basically free advice. But you just made me feel a little bit better in that you've kind of baked that in your model a little bit. And as long as I'm then bringing you some real gigs from time to time, you don't feel so bad asking those, those questions. And I would also imagine a lot of it is like pulling on a string, a loose string in a shirt. Right. You help them a little bit, you start unraveling it and then before you know it, you're in on a real gig. [30:08] Ilene Ferenczy: Yeah. And you know, we, we fully, first of all, both Alison and I, my partner and I We both started out in administration, so we've got a very soft spot for those of you who do this. I did that for 10 years before I went to law school, and I did it in Southern California, too. So you guys are at an old stomping ground. So anything that we can do to help people in your industry is important to us because we want to support the industry, and that's one of the reasons why we do the educational stuff we do. And everything is part of it is because it's advertising, but a lot of it is just that it's a certain amount of love for the industry that we have. So, yeah, we don't want people only coming to us when they feel like shit. We want them coming to us to help bolster what they do. We want them to come to us to help them be successful and to help them do what they need to do for their clients. And if everything works well, people retire happy, and that's what we're here for. [30:56] Mark: Chad, do you see what Shannon wrote? [30:58] JD: That's what I was just going to comment. I mean, that's what we spend 60% of our day doing as consultants, is fielding calls from advisors that think they have an opportunity and sitting with clients that have a plan that might move but might not, or open a plan but not sure if they can get enough tax efficiency to do so. And, yeah, I mean, that's a big part of our life, too. But I like what Eileen was saying. I feel like we as an industry can qualify whether or not we need her immaculate help and come to her with some background before we bring you into the loop. In other words, not burning too much of your time. [31:36] Ilene Ferenczy: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you guys hit the point where I got to charge you, it's up to me to tell you I got to charge you, you know, Otherwise, shame on me. [31:47] Mark: I always tell those guys when I write those emails, I feel shitty about them. Like, dude, send me a bill, you know, but they're always so nice, and they just give us some guidance or whatever. So, anyway, that's cool. But definitely, if you're out there and you're in this business and you're a compliance administrator or an advisor, you definitely need to have a stable or a few or a go to. I know Eileen's a favorite of many people. I'm not trying to plug you here, but I got. My email got blew up with people that are like, this is my favorite attorney, and I'm glad you guys finally got her on the show, so. But work on that. Because it's very helpful. I know as a compliance administrator. This rolls off the tongue, man. Compliance administrator. I. I feel like. I feel like those relationships are paramount to me. [32:29] Ilene Ferenczy: Fun for us. That's the stuff that we really enjoy doing. [32:32] Mark: Play a game or another Topic, Mark. [32:36] JD: Topic. [32:38] Mark: Okay, Whoa, are you. [32:40] JD: All I can say is I'm sitting here and I'm just listening, Eileen. And I'm a fucking prison. [32:49] Mark: Mergers and acquisitions. I. You know this is common, right? Even a great responsible foreign committee, they'll bring myself in, they'll bring the advisor in and they'll say, guess what? We just bought this company for $30 million last week and how much you sold this for? And so we're always last to know. [33:12] JD: Right? [33:12] Mark: And I'll bark at the committee and be like, hey, you guys got to give us a bigger heads up. And then they'll tell us, look, the big shots that are buying these companies aren't letting us know as a 401k committee, what's your vibe on that and how do you think advisors or. Sure. Compliance administrators can improve that type of relationship? I'm sure you see this mergers and acquisition stuff where no one knows and then it just happens. Right? [33:36] Ilene Ferenczy: Yeah, no, I. I see it all the time. And part of it is really the fault of lawyers who do that work that I have to tell you. I mean, this is. This is super secret and I'm probably gonna, you know, lose out on learning the next lawyer. [33:47] Mark: We won't tell anybody. We won't tell people. [33:49] Ilene Ferenczy: MMA lawyers are the most obnoxious lawyers there are. Okay. [33:52] Mark: That's a ringer. That's a ring up for someone. [33:55] Ilene Ferenczy: Yeah. In all honesty, they think at the top of their. I don't know. Anyway, the moral of the story is so until they get caught in a really bad retirement plan situation, they just blunder. [34:10] Mark: Eileen. Eileen, that was my next question for you. That's so hilarious. My next question was, don't these fancy lawyers that help my client buy another entity for millions and millions of dollars, don't they have an expert on staff or at least pay attention to retirement plan pitfalls? And I. What the fuck? [34:29] Ilene Ferenczy: No, I mean, I have a book that's on M and A or again, that's on mergers and acquisitions. [34:37] Mark: I'll take one. [34:37] Ilene Ferenczy: I'll take third party administrators who don't know mergers and acquisitions and mergers and acquisitions. People who don't know about pensions. It's a popular book, but most of the people who do that kind of work in law firms. Just like I Said they just don't really look at anybody. They're wheelers and dealers and I don't know if you guys have ever done work with real estate people, but they're like that too. They just sort of think they're the smartest ones in the room and off they go and they figure that everything will just sort of fall in line behind them. And they don't always do that. So yeah, we see a lot of after the fact. I encourage people to talk about acquisition and disposition issues up front. Again in service agreements that we do for third party administrators, we have a paragraph that says if you buy a company, if you're selling your company, you need to tell us that up front and it's your responsibility to do so, that the choices that you have are much greater up front than they are. After that transaction's over. I recommend that in annual requests packages you repeat that again. That when you meet with your clients, you repeat it again. And what you're hoping for is that when they do decide to retire and sell their company or something like that, that this voice comes back to them that JD's told them that 15 times, maybe they should give JD a call. [35:47] Mark: That's interesting. I always think of it as a big company, like a mega company problem. But you just brought up an example where it can be a small, medium sized company problem. That's really interesting to me. I would say for advisors and sure, compliance administrators, but I'm trying to talk to advisors here, is that maybe make sure you put your foot in the door and meet those executives that are in charge of acquiring other companies and maybe you make a relationship with that attorney that Eileen was just talking shit about and make sure they understand, like to loop you in and then you've got the right people to add to the mix. But I am shocked. It blows my mind that they can consult with a client, help them broker a deal. And I'm talking big deals, you know, like buy another bank, buy another, you know, massive thing for tens of millions of dollars. And then everyone's sitting around going, wait, no one's thought about their retirement plans yet. So that's an opportunity for advisors out there to provide value. Go ahead, Jen. [36:40] JD: I personally think if you're an advisor and you're, you're going to spend time educating a client on mergers and acquisitions, you're spinning wheels in the wrong area, your bandwidth is thin, you need to work on the plan itself. Educating employees full what we'll call life planning that we talked about a little bit last week. If you're spending time educating the average client on that, it doesn't fit. Now, if you have a client that's in the middle of a merger and acquisition, then, yes, I get it. I think as an industry, we need to be better with the lawyers, with the folks that specialize in this area and say, hey, when you get in this situation, if you're not the expert to do it, then loop us in and we can assess. [37:21] Mark: Say that again. [37:21] Ilene Ferenczy: Eileen, the merchants and acquisition people won't listen to you. I mean, we've done speeches for the local bar association in the mergers and acquisitions sections where we go and we talk about the benefit stuff and everything. And. Yeah, they don't listen. [37:35] JD: They don't. It's rough, but I feel like if you can bring them underneath your wing [37:42] Ilene Ferenczy: every so often and when you get them there, it's just great. Like, I have. I have a client who's very, very acquisition oriented. They're always doing deals and everything else. Companies come, companies go. And they know to call me all the time. They always call me and say, okay, this is what we want to do. What do we need to do? And it works great. And. And we've done some stuff in their plan document that accommodates stuff so they don't have to keep amending the plan. So if you can get in there with these guys, it's really terrific. I'm just saying that so many of them just don't listen. [38:08] Mark: Yeah, fair enough. Real world Eileen's off against the real world action, but it's definitely an issue, and I'd love to see people take some efforts to try to head it off a little bit less. I can't believe I'm going to do this. Let's go to Quiz of Death. Okay, we're going to play a game. [38:31] JD: Can one of the other guys be part of it? [38:34] Mark: It's a new and improved version, but we've played this game. It is in years past. Oh, no. I guess it's the same old game, new graphic. We used to do this. We haven't done it for a while. Eileen, don't be scared. There's no death involved for you. The death will be applied to Chad. We're going to ask Chad a 401k trivia question, if you will. And if he gets it right, he survives. If he gets it wrong, we inflict serious amounts of pain to him. Brandon, ship chat box. Go ahead and open up that box, Chad. And might be an old familiar friend. [39:16] JD: Oh, gosh. There's a lot of things in here. What did I say? Mousetraps. Dare to compare. Bean boozled. Terrible. These I liked. I used to do this all the time as a kid. [39:31] Mark: Well, I'm. I'm gonna give you a choice. I'm gonna give you the choice, Chad. You can. You can put your tongue on the. What is that? A 9 volt battery? Or you can. Or you can slap a mousetrap on your. Put your finger into a mousetrap. Which one would you like to do? And audience, which is your preference? [39:50] JD: Dude, the 9 volt is a piece of cake. So I say mousetrap while putting my tongue on the 9 volt. [39:57] Mark: I'm down with that. Okay, let's go to the question all of you. This used to be one of my favorite games. Apparently now still will be. Okay, I'm going to Name for you 4 companies and all you have to do is come up with what their previous name was. Okay. You with me, Chad? [40:18] JD: Yeah, I get you. [40:19] Mark: And you know what? These are all you. You know, you should be able to get a lot of these Ing. They increase in difficulty. [40:27] Ilene Ferenczy: What did you just do? [40:28] JD: I'm trying to set it up. And it snapped. [40:33] Mark: Come on, man. Do you get professional. Do this properly. Okay. Okay. First company. Mark already helped you out. Voya. What was their name before their Voya Ing? [40:44] Justin: Does that count? [40:45] Mark: That counts. That's one. [40:46] JD: That is one. [40:48] Mark: Correct. [40:50] Ilene Ferenczy: Yep. [40:51] Mark: Yeah, I guess that's me too. That's me too. Next one. [40:55] JD: John Hancock Manulife. [40:59] Mark: Very good. Those are easy, bro. Human interest. [41:02] JD: Oh, the online 401k. [41:07] Mark: Captain 401 bitch. [41:10] JD: No, before. Were they not the online 401k before Kathy? [41:14] Mark: No, that's ubiquity. You're getting. Getting ubiquity mixed up with. So that's cool. I was. The last one I was going to ask you was American Century. I thought that was one that would get you. I'd asked you that on a previous quiz of death and you'd gotten it wrong. Do you remember? [41:28] JD: I would say the stout. I know it's Sours Institute. So Stower Century. I don't know anyone out. [41:34] Mark: Anyone out there in the chat. Our chat is already lost. He's about to put his. [41:41] JD: But you guys are making me do [41:42] Mark: this voice one at a time. Eileen. Yes, you're correct. 20th century mutual funds. All right, Chad, you lost. Stick your finger in that mousetrap. Finger. [41:51] JD: Oh, that sucks. Which finger? I'm playing golf tomorrow, if you remember. [41:57] Ilene Ferenczy: Okay. [41:57] Mark: Yeah. You gotta pitch to the kids. [42:00] Ilene Ferenczy: Does this mean he's gonna Gonna pull to the left or something. [42:03] Mark: Hackler, once you put your. [42:08] JD: Broke your skin. [42:09] Mark: That was fun. That was fun. I enjoyed that. [42:12] Ilene Ferenczy: I think you need to put in for workers comp. [42:15] JD: Oh, [42:19] Mark: Eileen, I think if your employer forces you to hurt yourself, there's bigger lawsuits. He could do. All right, let's move on to a new topic. Thank you, Chad. That was fun. And by the way, out there in the audience, email me direct message me if you have any pain inflicting ideas for a future quiz. We could really use them. [42:38] JD: Let's acknowledge, for those that haven't been around, I've already been stun gunned. I have already eaten the hottest things on the planet. I have been whipped with a wet towel by Justin Shovel. [42:50] Mark: Airsoft. [42:51] JD: Shot with Airsoft. Yeah, so those. Don't. Don't use those ones again. And JD maybe give me questions that are more related to our industry. That rather than. I don't care that it was manual life or 20th century. [43:06] Justin: We did do a Taser. [43:07] JD: That's not relevant. [43:09] Mark: I'm with Hackler. [43:10] JD: I think next time we haven't done Taser. [43:13] Mark: I think next time we'll keep those mousetraps and we'll use your tongue instead of the finger. Okay, let's go to Jason Mace. What? The topic that everyone wants to talk about, which I've kind of just been overdone, so I've steered away from the masters. But Eileen, you brought it up in the email you sent to me and I know people want to hear about it. Issues and controversies around multiple employer plans, which I think you also mean pooled employer plans and group of plans and multiple employer plans. So can you start by sharing some of your ideas around these plans and maybe like, what are these conflicts or these controversies that you speak of? [43:54] Ilene Ferenczy: Well, a couple of different things, I guess. I know that there are people who hate them and think that they're terrible, and there are people that think that they're going to again, take over the world. I don't think they're going to take over the world. I think that they are, again, a solution for some people if they're done correctly. What I am fascinated by is that. Well, a couple of different things. First of all, I don't believe absent some really increased quality of computerization that groups of plans of any sort actually save people money. I think if anything, what they do is they give. [44:32] Mark: Wait, wait, Eileen, stop right there. Hang on. I'm going to give you a kiss. [44:36] Ilene Ferenczy: Okay, [44:39] Mark: okay, continue on, continue on. [44:41] Ilene Ferenczy: I think I'm going to sore no. Anyway, I think that what they may do and what they should do is give small plans access to things that they might not otherwise have access to. You know, if I have a plan that's got $200,000 in it, I might have a hard time getting access to employee education or access to a certain amount of consulting or access to certain funds, or certainly access to institutional level funds and things like that. So if they work correctly, I think that there may be an economy of scale of some sort that gives you access to more stuff. I also think that if they do save money, where they save money is not necessarily in the fees that they pay or whatever, but it's the fact that more is being done in terms of somebody acting as a fiduciary to do some of those duties for you that is currently done in somebody's HR office or in somebody's, you know, office manager's office. So theoretically, they're saving on some of the time that that person is normally going to spend. Now, I've heard you say, J.D. and I agree with you that that's available in a regular 316 arrangement as well. It, you know, can be, you know, available through certain types of new. [45:48] Mark: Nothing new. [45:49] Ilene Ferenczy: And I agree with that. I absolutely agree with that. But, you know, again, just, you know, having the 5,500 taken off your shoulders, that kind of stuff might be valuable. What I think is distressing to me about all of these, and this is in terms of multiple employer plans, pooled employer plans, groups of plans, all of these kinds of things, is that these are actually a whole kind of new business line for people. And I think that some people are selling them to third party administrators as being something that like, you know, I signed the forms on Monday and it's in place on Tuesday, and I'm making money handovers fist and the fact these are fairly complex business relationships, you're actually going into partnership in some respect with other people, or you're taking on the job of working with other people and possibly hiring them and supervising them and things like that. And I think that at the risk of sounding like a lawyer who's looking to sell her wares, there are things that you need a lawyer to do and it's more complex and you have to be prepared to do those kinds of things or you're going to find yourself with liability that's way beyond whatever you expected. So I think that the thing I want to say to people is, by all means, if you want to expand into these things, I think you should. I think that there is a place for them. I don't think that they're going to put people out of business. I don't think we're going to see all of the third party administrators out there with no place to go because all of the pooled employer plans are taking over their jobs and everything. But if you are going to get into these waters, do it correctly. It's like starting a new business. So you want to have legal counsel, you want to have the right forms, you want to have the right service agreements, you want to think about how you're going to set up the plan so that it is worth selling and that you people are going to buy into it. It's not a, you know, decide to do it on Monday and it's in place on Wednesday. [47:32] Mark: Kind of Tony Davis and I, you know, kind of fight over this bone a little bit and he says, you know, this business needs a disruptor. There are too many small companies with no plan options. I've said this over and over again. I want to get Eileen's take all of the pooled employer plans that I've seen, or at least a great. No, I'm going to say all of them seem to be structured more at winning existing business, you know, than, than helping solve this retirement plan gap for these small employees. Am I crazy to say that? I mean, you see something different again, [48:07] Ilene Ferenczy: I'm seeing like I have one client that is a record keeping third party administrator company and they are setting up one plan that, that is meant to be a startup plan. So it has very little options available. It's a safe harbor plan. It has, you know, everybody's gonna have the same eligibility. It's a very straightforward, simple plan. It's intended to be less expensive. It's intended to take away pretty much all the decision making and it's intended to attract new plants so that, you [48:33] Mark: know, it's funny, I'm not trying to self promote like chat. We already have something like that. We've had it for a couple of years now where as a, as a compliance administrator we do that same thing and heavily reduce our fees. So I just. [48:47] Ilene Ferenczy: And again, I don't think it's necessarily the MEP or the PEP concept that I did it again. I'm sorry. [48:53] Mark: Whoa, thanks a lot, Eileen. [48:56] Ilene Ferenczy: That makes sense. [48:59] JD: I'm happy to take another. [49:01] Ilene Ferenczy: There you go. So yeah, I think that there are different ways to doing all this stuff. I'm just saying this is one way to accomplish it. So I think that's true. I think that There are other plans that people are doing that are going to offer a lot more choices. And whether or not those shake down as something that's administerable, we'll find out. I know that there is one person that I'm dealing with that believes that the whole key to all this is to have it basically be completely, as far as possible, mechanized. That you have these really robust computer systems. Those of us who have done third party administration eliminate. Imagine being able to mechanize the entire thing. I can't. [49:38] JD: I mean, no, because we're subject to the Employee Retirement Income Security act, but if you, if you eliminated that and simplified the industry, then maybe it could be mechanized, but. [49:47] Ilene Ferenczy: Right. No, I agree with not happening. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So I think that there's all kinds of different possibilities here, but again, I think there's a place for them. I'm really interested in them. I will tell you that the, the plan documents that exist right now are not set up particularly well for multiple employer plans. You know, the, the pre, you know, the document provider documents, they are definitely not set up for pooled employer plans because everybody's waiting for the IRS's guidance. And so because of that, you got [50:17] Mark: that cart in front of the horse a little bit. [50:19] Ilene Ferenczy: Again, one of the things that I'm doing for people is to do stuff with their plan documents and do stuff with their contracts that will fill the gap until the government that with their guidance and until the document providers catch up with what needs to be done. And so unless you're able to do all those things yourself, you need legal counsel. And if it's not me, I'll be happy to recommend you to somebody else. Really? [50:43] Mark: Another comment, you know, from the chat bar is, you know, and I heard Nevin say this today on what he did, which is, you know, hey, options are good. You know, if you've got more options for people, then what's so bad about that? What's the issue? And I just want to wrap this subject by, you know, having the last fucking word and saying that what's wrong with it is that we're heading in the wrong direction. I know I've said this before, but in terms of helping our clients, if we go out there and try to create simplicity and try to create low cost, even though I don't believe pooled employer plans are low cost, and Eileen backed that up earlier, she said maybe you'd get some more features. I feel as though we're taking clients towards a world of conflict of interest where People are trying to generate revenue in different ways. And Eileen, I saw your head go there, so I'll let you speak on that a little bit. But we're moving away from this path that we were heading on, which was very independent, transparency based. This is your advisor, this is your compliance administrator, this is your record keeper. And now we're moving down this path. And these, these evil industry companies are looking to build things to make them money. And Tony and the rest out there. That's why I don't like this shit. And that's why it concerns me. Eileen, wrap the subject with conflicts of interest. I mean, is there some concern out there for you? [52:01] Ilene Ferenczy: Well, I am a little bit concerned about that. But I'll tell you something. I think the conflicts of interest that we have are way beyond multiple employer plans and stuff. The fact is that when the Department of Labor first issued their 404 regs, they said, if you want to have a plan where you shift the responsibility to the participants, you have to have mutual funds in the plan. It's right there in the law. And what they did is that they just handed this present to the investment industry and said, you guys are going to set up a bunch of custodial accounts that are going to hold mutual funds because that's all the retirement plans are going to be allowed to invest in if they want to shift the liability to participants. And then they were shocked, shocked, I say, to find that investment people were making a ton of money off of mutual funds. So, I mean, I think until we come to terms with things like revenue sharing and, you know, how about now, [52:52] Mark: like managed accounts and collective investment trusts and I mean, there's all kinds of weird accounts. [52:59] Ilene Ferenczy: I'm just saying that people make money in ways that you don't expect that they're making money. And of course, the new hot topic is participant data. You know, that, that people, you know, Fidelity or whatever are making tons of money off of what they're doing with participant data. Until it comes to terms with all of those kinds of things. Whether or not you have conflicts of interest in multiple employer plans is almost small potatoes. I mean, it's not. But you understand what I'm saying. The problem infuses itself throughout our industry and it's something that somebody has to deal with. And there's been talk about, I guess, in England, for example, they don't do commissions on stock purchase and sales. I've heard. I don't know if that's true or not. But the idea is that our whole model for the Way that we compensate investment people in and of itself is a messed up. And it's true whether I'm an individual with their own pension plan. I mean, any. You know, if I had a gazillion dollars and I had somebody who was managing my portfolio, that person would have every reason to turn my investments to some extent, to make commissions. [53:59] Mark: I don't know why. I don't know why we would. I don't know why we would follow the path of the United Kingdom. I mean, these people don't even brush their teeth, for Christ's sake. So it's like I was not necessarily [54:10] Ilene Ferenczy: saying that that's the model we should go for. I'm just saying one of the things that people talk about is getting rid of the permission kind of thing. [54:16] Mark: I thought we were. I thought we were trying to be better about that. [54:19] Ilene Ferenczy: Jody. [54:21] Mark: Only about sexism. Else is fine. Other countries is fair game. Hey, I am. I just want to say for everyone out there listening and for you, Eileen, to see those three boys in that same room there. [54:33] JD: It's been a long time. [54:35] Mark: No. Taking multiple shots, drinking from their beer. Every time Eileen says a prohibitive. [54:40] Ilene Ferenczy: Where. [54:40] Mark: I don't know, it just gives me great joy. I. I think they're all going to get hammered, and I think their family members are going to be very upset. [54:48] JD: I'm gonna say this, and I'm just gonna be very quick when I say this because I've been very quiet. Is that Eileen? I don't. You're. You just like you took over the show and. Yeah, I mean, I think that you should just. Just take my place. [55:06] Ilene Ferenczy: Was that good or was that, you [55:08] Mark: know, Eileen, no, that was a compliment. [55:11] Ilene Ferenczy: 100. [55:14] Mark: All right, we're gonna put you on the spot now, Eileen. We are going to. The pressure is on, okay? This is all about you. It's all about you. We're playing movie trivia, people. Let's do this. Brandon, you there? You ready? [55:28] JD: Another recycled game [55:32] Justin: shot. If she doesn't get it right. [55:34] Mark: Yeah, not the not new. The not new and unimproved game of movie trivia. And yes, I say if she doesn't get it right, every retireholic must take a shot of the penalty drink. All right. [55:46] Chad: It should be pretty easy, I think. [55:49] Mark: Well, that's too bad. [55:53] Speaker F: This little girl survived longer than that with no weapons and no training. Right? What you put on, Joe, you better just start dealing with it. Hudson. Listen to me, Hudson, just deal with it because they need you and I'm sick of your. [56:13] Mark: Eileen. I ask One thing of you right now. Do not look at that chat bar. They're going to cheat for you. Come on, have something, Eileen. [56:20] JD: You can do it. [56:21] Mark: Have some fiduciary integrity. Do not look at that chat bar. I see you looking at that damn chat bar. [56:28] Ilene Ferenczy: See, my hand is over it. [56:29] JD: See, I didn't get that one. [56:31] Ilene Ferenczy: Yeah. What that was. [56:33] Mark: Okay, well, let's drink, boys. No idea. [56:35] Justin: All I got was Will Ferrell saying, [56:37] Ilene Ferenczy: dude, there's a dart in your neck. [56:41] JD: All right. No, but you. [56:43] Mark: Oh, play it. [56:43] Chad: Yeah, someone wants me to play it again, but I'm gonna play the real one. [56:48] Mark: Don't you play the real one? [56:49] Chad: Yeah, like, no one got it, so I'm just gonna play the real one. [56:52] JD: Yeah. [56:53] Mark: Yeah. I forgot how this game works. [56:55] JD: I actually don't want to mix. Can I just. [56:57] Ilene Ferenczy: This little girl alien that with no [56:59] Mark: weapons and no training, right? [57:06] Speaker F: Why don't you put her in charge? [57:08] Mark: Better just start dealing with it. [57:09] Ilene Ferenczy: Hudson. Listen to me. Hudson, just. [57:13] Mark: Is that alien? [57:14] JD: Aliens really easy. [57:18] Mark: I mean, why was there a chat. [57:19] Chad: Everyone I know knows that, like, deadpan. Like, there's just everybody. [57:23] Mark: Okay. All right, let's move along, guys. This is not last week's show. Let's keep moving it along, all right? [57:31] Chad: This is a more recent movie. [57:35] Speaker F: You're the one with the big mouth. And I would really enjoy closing it, especially in front of all my friends. But my hands are registered as needle weapons. That means we get into a fight. I accidentally killed Eileen. [57:50] Mark: Don't look at that chat bar. [57:51] Ilene Ferenczy: I'm not. I'm not. [57:52] Speaker F: Anybody accidentally kills anybody in a fight, they go to jail. It's called manslaughter. [57:58] Mark: These are tough. I feel like is that. [58:01] JD: These are super tough. [58:03] Mark: Fight Club. She said Fight Club brand Fight Club. I'm claiming it's a Bruce Lee thing. [58:08] Justin: I would agree with Fight Club. [58:09] Mark: I'll. [58:10] Chad: I'll somewhat give it to you, J.D. but no one got that one. [58:13] Mark: Sorry. [58:15] JD: Brand new ones. Greg, Greg, Greg. [58:17] Mark: Says Star Wars. [58:18] JD: That would really enjoy. That's what I thought. [58:25] Mark: Oh, we got a drink, guys. She got it wrong. [58:27] Ilene Ferenczy: I don't know. [58:28] JD: We get into a fight, I accidentally kill. [58:30] Ilene Ferenczy: Am I right about that? [58:31] JD: Now I go to jail. [58:33] Chad: Anybody accidentally kills anybody in a fight, they go to jail. [58:39] JD: Yeah. [58:40] Ilene Ferenczy: Second try. [58:42] Mark: Yeah. Not a Bruce Lee thing. I mean. Yes, a Bruce Lee thing. Not what I thought. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Great movie. Great freaking movie. Dude, the chat bar is not on the top of their game these days. I don't have they even gotten any of these right, Brandon. [58:55] JD: Hey, jd, Nobody's frozen. Are we frozen? [58:58] Ilene Ferenczy: You know who you have to play this game with? I'm pretty good at movie trivia. My partner, Allison. You have to have Allison Cohen on [59:06] JD: movie booker. [59:08] Mark: Wait, isn't it funny when someone asks you if they're frozen? They're frozen. [59:14] JD: Well, you guys are all perfect, so I wasn't sure if we were or not. [59:18] Mark: I just feel happy that. That. Sorry, Mark. That I'm here in Maui and I thought my Internet would suck at me. All right, do we have a third one? [59:27] Chad: Yeah. Well, you got another one. [59:29] Mark: And did you guys drink for her last loss? [59:31] JD: Yeah. [59:34] Chad: No. [59:35] Mark: No one. [59:35] Chad: Justin, pay attention. No one should miss this one. Hopefully. [59:40] Speaker F: Oh, six when he pulled through the clouds and then I moved in. Well, if you were directly above him, how could you see him? I got it because I was inverted. [59:55] JD: Yes. We don't have to drink. Eileen. Thank you. [59:59] Mark: Yeah. I cannot wait for of the MiG 28. All right, all right. Top Gun was her guess. She's got it. She's got it. You got one out of three, Eileen. That's much better than Nevin Adams ever does. So good job. [1:00:15] Chad: I got a fourth if you. If your game. Or we can just. [1:00:18] Mark: Let's go chop our champion and wrap this thing up into the after show. A couple of things to talk about. [1:00:25] JD: The after show is always the best. [1:00:27] Mark: Yeah. Yeah. Chat bar champion. I'll just. So Eileen gets a feel for it. I'll go to you guys first. Who is your vote for chat bar champion? And Brandon, pay attention. [1:00:40] JD: By the way, I just saw that your father in law is here again. Jd it's been a long time since Paul made his way back in. [1:00:46] Mark: Hi, father in law. Father of my wife. I'm drinking beer again in front of people and being a fucking idiot. Thanks for tuning in. Okay, Chad, who's your guess? [1:00:56] JD: Mark has one first. I'm looking at the list now. New Chad. Oh, that's that. That was a shoe in from last week. New Chad did not have a great night tonight. [1:01:06] Justin: I would agree. [1:01:07] JD: I really like New Chat. [1:01:09] Mark: I think that's Chad Decento or whatever. Brandon or is that right? His last name is irrelevant. It's Krista. He has a Christina. [1:01:17] Chad: Christina. [1:01:18] Mark: Okay, next one. [1:01:21] Ilene Ferenczy: Chad. [1:01:22] JD: I. I said it earlier. I'm gonna go with Kevin Gastone. Gaston. Oh, is that like. Is that. What's that Disney movie Dude? [1:01:32] Mark: I believe that is the. I believe that is the dude that hosted Nevin and Graph today. And if that is Kevin, you did a phenomenal job hosting that little show. So that was solid. Justin. [1:01:46] Justin: I'm gonna go with Mrs. Brandrup and a couple zingers in there. [1:01:53] Mark: I am always gonna go for the. The youngest female financial advisor in the history of the world, Aaron Hall. For a variety of reasons. Because I love you, Aaron, and you make me a better person. And yes, you're in there. [1:02:10] JD: Your wife's watching tonight. Careful. [1:02:13] Mark: Aaron's. It would be illegal for me to date Aaron. She's 14 years old. So it can happen. Okay, Eileen. [1:02:22] Ilene Ferenczy: Well, my fave is. Is Amanda Iverson. [1:02:26] Mark: Whoa, Eileen. [1:02:30] JD: Eileen, do you know that Amanda Iverson sponsors my robe? [1:02:34] Ilene Ferenczy: No, I didn't know that. [1:02:37] Mark: Do you want to sponsor my robe? [1:02:38] JD: You gotta scoot back. You're gonna blow that mic out. [1:02:41] Mark: Eileen, do you know that every time I hear that name, I glitch out and, like, go into the hives and then get headaches? Okay, let's throw her up there. Let's throw them all up there. Actually hope Amanda wins. I think that'd be awesome. [1:02:54] JD: She did have a good night. She always has a good night. You. [1:02:57] Mark: You are voting out there. Once Brandon gets us all set up, takes full time. You will vote for the winner. And there it is. It's up. Get your votes in, people. Get your votes in. Should be interesting. Should be interesting. [1:03:13] JD: Yeah. Don't open her video. [1:03:15] Justin: No. [1:03:16] Mark: What? [1:03:17] Ilene Ferenczy: No. [1:03:17] Justin: No, no, no. [1:03:19] Mark: What? I can see the results coming in. [1:03:22] Chad: Amanda's taking it. I'm just gonna end this. [1:03:24] Mark: You're in it. Brandon always ends at power move. Amanda Iverson, one half of Shamanda as one. The chat bar champion. [1:03:37] JD: I promise you. [1:03:38] Mark: And just like the Academy Awards, Aaron hall says, yay. Amanda congratulating her competitor. [1:03:44] JD: You know, J.D. here's a new idea real quick. [1:03:47] Mark: Yes. [1:03:48] JD: The person who wins Travel champion, we should actually require them to come on video and have an acceptance speech. [1:03:57] Mark: We can see if she'll hop on the after show, but Brandon. [1:04:01] JD: Shit. [1:04:02] Mark: Can you. Can you play the Pina Colada song? Or do you have something queued up and then I got some. [1:04:08] Chad: I got something queued up. I'm gonna play it and go to the bathroom. Be right back. [1:04:11] Mark: Hey, thanks for tuning in, everybody. [1:04:13] Speaker G: Jump right into the next one. [1:04:14] Ilene Ferenczy: That was so much fun. [1:04:17] Mark: I wrote myself next week. Michael Kitces [1:04:22] JD: next week. [1:04:23] Speaker G: Mostly here and partially in the United States, too. [1:04:29] Ilene Ferenczy: That's my man. [1:04:31] Mark: Oh, no. Two weeks from now. Sorry. [1:04:43] Speaker G: Just yesterday morning. They let me know you were gone. Suzanne plans. We may put an end to it. [1:04:53] Ilene Ferenczy: You. [1:04:56] Speaker G: I walked out on the morning and I wrote down the song. I just can't remember who to send it to. I seen fire and I've seen rain? I seen sunny days? That I thought would never end? I seen lonely times? When I could not find a friend? But I always thought that I'd see you again? Won't you look down upon me? Jesus, you gotta help me to make a stand? You just got to see me through another day? My body's aching and my time is at hand? And I won't make it any other way? I seen fire and I've seen rain? [1:06:08] Chad: Oh, man, that's a good looking guy. [1:06:11] Ilene Ferenczy: You agree? I've been a fan of his since I was 15 years old. [1:06:15] Mark: Oh, good choice, Brandon. Did you do some research or something? [1:06:18] Chad: Yeah, I dove in. [1:06:22] Speaker F: Website. [1:06:22] JD: That was a great song. Did you see me try to get these guys to do the mousetrap and then Mark hit it with his hat, which then snapped me in the finger again? [1:06:31] Mark: No, But I did love having the quiz of death come back. You know what's weird, Chad, is how much you love having the quiz of death come back. [1:06:39] JD: I do. And honestly, I kind of like failing. I like that you get me questions that might know, might not know. I don't. [1:06:45] Mark: Very strange. [1:06:46] JD: Someone's got to do it. [1:06:49] Mark: Can I, Chad? Can I just kick off the after show and then we'll get to some serious subject matter. But let me read for you what someone out there wanted me to do for the quiz of death. [1:07:02] JD: Yeah, let's hear it. [1:07:04] Justin: I'll post a show. Or in the chat bar. [1:07:07] Mark: Huh. [1:07:08] Justin: Was this before the show.