Consultant vs. Salesman: Plan Design Reality | Retireholics

[0:00] Justin: It was right after we moved back from Colorado because you guys were at your parents house and we came to my parents house for the party or whatever the hell we were doing. [0:08] Chad: Yeah. Brooke leaves her phone in Justin's living room and the next morning we wake up with hundreds of phone calls and emails of people mad at us that we didn't call them personally. How could we get pregnant out of wedlock? And all this disappointment from our family, knowing how they really feel about me. From Brooks family. [0:28] Justin: You're forgetting the best part. [0:31] Mark: Terrible. [0:31] Justin: Justin, the church. The pastor. Remember he, the pastor made a statement to the entire congregation. Yeah, like expecting their first child. [0:45] Chad: Yep. In Missouri. You're absolutely right. Small town Missouri. Comments made at the local church that Brooke Gasanu was expecting her first child. Grandchildren. Great grandchildren. For mama. [0:58] Mark: Yeah. [0:58] Chad: That was an evil prank, dude. Brooke got you back. Brooke got you back. [1:33] Justin: I was wondering what you're gonna do for that. [1:34] Mark: Oh, that was fantastic. [1:37] Chad: That's good. It was subtle and it was good. [1:40] Justin: You can't blame me though. We were heavily intoxicated. [1:43] Chad: I can still blame you. It was still a shit show. [1:46] Justin: Jd. Mute. [1:48] Chad: My wife did get you back though. Pretending that her water broke while I was in a meeting two hours away. [1:55] Justin: Yeah, that was terrible. [1:56] Mark: That's good. [1:56] Chad: It was good. She's evil. For those of you listening in, my wife is evil at April Fools. I think I may have mentioned this one other time maybe. What would it have been? Two months before we got married? She rolled over in bed in the middle of the night acting like she was crying. And when I asked her like, honey, what's wrong? She went into this emotional deep comments of she doesn't know if we're ready to get married and she's not sure if I'm the right one. And did we rush into this too quickly? And I was losing my shit at one o' clock in the morning, laying in bed thinking that this was really happening. Trying to explain to her that we've. We're ready for this. We're ready for the next step in our. In our lives together. Only to find out it was April Fool. She was pranking me. And she's an evil human being on this day. She's not. [2:46] Justin: Nevin brings up a very good question there, Chad. [2:50] Chad: I didn't see it. [2:51] Mark: What? [2:52] Justin: It's like five up. [2:53] Mark: Oh, Chad. Do you remember the time that you pretended to be carrying your newborn daughter and there was a watermelon in your car seat and then you dropped it in front of me and I almost killed my Life almost just dead. Yeah, it was bad. Okay, it was bad. [3:09] Chad: It was bad. But it was great at the same time because we saw how much you cared for our first child. You wanted to make sure she was okay. It was sweet, Mark. It was sweet. Okay, so I'll answer both of Nevin's question and comment. Nevin. Yes, out of wedlock. We did live together. I did ask her father if that was okay before we moved in together. Nevin, number two. Yes. Cards do look good. [3:33] Mark: Solid. [3:33] Chad: Solid all the way around. I like the pitching performance, too. [3:38] Justin: Well, hold on, Kushner. Did you guys see Kushner's comment? Bravo. [3:41] Mark: Are we ever going to start our show? [3:42] Chad: No, we don't start shows, especially when JD is not around. For those that didn't see JD's podcast or hear some of the chirping around the social. Which podcast? [3:53] Mark: He's been on like 75, 72. [3:55] Chad: No, 72 so far this week. [3:57] Justin: This week. [3:59] Chad: But JD, JD and his typical big time self sends us an email Sunday night. Like, guys, I won't be there on Thursday. You're on your own. I'm flying to Hawaii. I won't be down in time. You guys run the show. I felt like right now it was my wife cooking cookies in the kitchen and testing me to see if I'm going to get a finger lick of the cookie dough. Because here he is, he shows up. He doesn't trust us enough to stay away for one day. Jd, one day you should stay away and let us run this thing. And here you are. [4:33] Justin: Oh, he's going to say something. [4:34] JD: I didn't say I wasn't going to show up. I just asked for you guys to run the show because I didn't know if I was going to find a little spot or. And I got to hop on a flight to Maui. I'm in Honolulu and I got to get on a flight to maui in about 20 minutes. So anyways, continue ripping on me while I. How's the sound? Is that bad? [4:53] Justin: That's good. It's good. [4:56] Chad: We were helpful. We were helpful. Jd. We were hopeful that you weren't going to show up so that we could rag on you the whole show. Instead, we'll just brag on you periodically and mute you and control the entire show. [5:09] JD: That's not the proper spelling of howley. [5:11] Chad: Greg. [5:12] JD: You got that wrong. Look it up. [5:13] Mark: Google it. [5:14] Chad: Oh, goodness. So here was my thought. And guys, I'm curious what you guys thought. When I got that email from JD Sunday night, I looked at it. I Went, oh shit, we've been acquired. That was my first thought. I'm like, JD sold the future plans. That's why he's not showing up. Or is that some real case specialist magazine or something? Like, he's gone. JD's. JD's in the wind. [5:35] Justin: That's some real conspiracy, man. I mean, let's be honest with us. Hold on. I got. I think he is just big timing. That's. Let's all get ready here. [5:44] Chad: Holy shit. [5:45] Justin: Justin, you got to be class spirit. You know that's legit. Yes, that's. [5:52] Mark: I think. [5:52] Chad: What? [5:52] Mark: My tinfoil hat is sponsored. Is your guys a sponsored? [5:55] Chad: No, no, unfortunately, we're not cool enough. Mark. I think he. [6:01] Justin: I think Timberlake is officially setting off to go do his own. Own private tour without us and just saying audios. Fuckers. [6:09] Chad: That would make sense. [6:11] Justin: Yeah. [6:11] JD: We just wanted to see if. If we could keep you guys on the record label or not or just get rid of you all together. So this is the test run, by the way. That's the full spectrum of tinfoil hats there. Justin says the supreme master of all. And Marx looked pitiful. [6:26] Chad: Does it not make sense that Justin 30 seconds ago. Justin's is the supreme master because he is a conspiracy theory himself. Like he's constantly thinking that something is happening. [6:37] Mark: Just kind of like a. It's more like a. So I was. I was going the other direction of these guys. I seriously thought that JD was traveling to planet Pep. Because I firmly believe that JD is secretly planting these seeds of negativity of PEP on everybody. And he's getting people to go to this website. He's tracking your information now. He knows if you go there, he knows how long you stay on the site. He's gonna come knocking on the pep door. I think he's just trying to play us all for a fool. Some smoke and mirrors of. [7:11] Justin: All. [7:11] Mark: Right, I gotta go talk to my alien Pep friends and I'm gonna come back to Earth and I'm gonna revolutionize everything with my. [7:18] Chad: My own J.D. [7:19] Mark: carlson Pep. But then I had an alternative thought. Maybe he's going to Hawaii to take pictures for 401k specialist magazine cover without us. [7:28] Chad: Oh, you SOB. [7:30] JD: Dammit. Not true, Cat. [7:34] Justin: She's covert. Really? [7:36] Chad: So what is it, jd? Why aren't you. Why aren't you hanging out in your office and running a normal retireholics episode? [7:43] JD: I'm literally meeting another family here. Friends just going to Maui. Just chilling for a little bit. Just vacation. And then my wife bought the tickets and I was a Total brat. I'm like, are we flying out on Thursday? And she's like, yes. I'm like, fucking retireholics, babe. What the shit? And my wife was like, I don't want to hear about your retireholics bullshit. We're flying out on Thursday, so deal with it. [8:08] Chad: So, by the way, we should acknowledge this has got to be at least 50 episodes now. We're a full year through of doing the Zoom Thursday nights. We started with two. The first couple of weeks. It's been 52 weeks. We skipped two weeks. We've got to be over 50, fellas. That's impressive. Thank you. 800. Hey, Justin. [8:31] Justin: Yeah. [8:32] Chad: This is your opportunity because you never get to introduce us. This is your opportunity to introduce us for a second. Tell us a little bit about. I can't hear. Justin. [8:42] JD: Hold on. [8:43] Justin: My Sports center sign is spinning. I'm sorry, J.D. [8:47] Chad: you gotta mute yourself when they start. Yeah, buddy. We can't hear anything. [8:49] Justin: This is terrible. [8:51] Chad: There you go. All right, Justin, give us. [8:54] Justin: We're still doing intros, huh? Okay, well, not everybody knows you like we know you. They know you as Nerdy Chad and the real intelligent professional one. But this is kind, you know, our first co host I met when I was probably nine years old and we played baseball together. And I swore to myself I would never be friends with this guy because anytime he would strike out, he frustrated. Football fan. Close we called him. He called it a chatitude. Anytime he would strike out, he would start stomping to the dugout, he'd throw his helmet, he'd throw his bat. There were one or two times I [9:37] Chad: saw him crying, but I did not throw my bat. I may have cried on the mound and I may have thrown fits, but I did not throw my bat. But. [9:48] Justin: So yeah, that's the real Chad that we all know. And then this other guy, as you, you know, some of you that were on the show last week learned, you know, he just. He thinks so highly of me that he told me to. To just go kill myself so somebody else could use the. The air that I was wasting on breathing. And that's Mark. So. [10:05] Mark: I never once said that. [10:08] Chad: Mark, we've heard you say that on a few occasions, buddy. [10:11] Mark: I don't believe anything you're saying right now. [10:14] Chad: Well, I'll give Justin his intro because Justin rolled into my life at nine hitting bombs in Little League and was one of the guys that made me cry on the mound. That asshole. And let me strike him out so I could be happy. [10:28] Justin: Gee, we'll go tee Back then, too. That's right. [10:32] Chad: Anyways, so we're ten minutes into the show. No, we're not introducing jd. JD doesn't get introduced. [10:38] Mark: He's going to. [10:38] Justin: He's in the bathroom. Legit. [10:40] Chad: This is dangerous. [10:42] Justin: I think this makes the cutting room floor. [10:44] Mark: Speaking of housekeeping. [10:46] Chad: No. [10:46] Mark: Oh, come on. The angle, dude. I think it goes without saying. Gallery view. If you don't already know that. Today's game is not acker sin like we've been doing, why do you ask? I don't know. Why did JD and Brandon take away the K and replace it with the C? Oh, just because they wanted to. Okay, we are. Thank you. We are bringing back the word of the episode. No accuracy. We're done with that for today. Acronyms are hard and we like to say them, so deal with it. We're doing well. The word. Brandon, what's our word today? [11:31] Speaker E: That's the host job, not mine. [11:34] Chad: All right, perfect. [11:34] Mark: I knew that. We'll just stick with the tried and true original advisor. [11:42] Chad: I knew you were going to go there. [11:43] Speaker E: Okay, give me a moment to get that set up. [11:46] Mark: No. So starting right. Advisor. Advisor. Advisor. Advisor. Advisor. [11:52] Chad: Advisor. [11:54] Mark: Can't say it. Yeah, that counts. That counts. [11:57] Chad: I got mine in first. Justin did. [11:58] Mark: And as. As. As per usual, Chat bar champion will be awarded at the end of the show if. If we ever end or ever get started. I should say so. Everybody keep those chats PG 13. It's required. And we'll award the best. We'll vote live. Sorry, how do we do this now? Is that we pick somebody. Everyone. [12:20] Chad: We pick somebody the audience votes. Yeah. You know what? [12:22] Mark: Guess what? We're not doing that this week. [12:24] Chad: JD Makes all kinds of rules. [12:26] Mark: We're picking them. We're picking it. Done. All right, moving on. [12:31] Chad: Justin. [12:32] Justin: Yes, sir. [12:32] Chad: Get us into some trending topics. I'm sure you can do better than JD normally does. [12:37] Mark: Absolutely. [12:37] Justin: You know why? Because we're going to start with sports. Opening day of mlb. And I'm very excited to say I'll be going to the game for the Angels on Monday against the Astros. Bravo. Can't wait. [12:52] Chad: Stadium's open down there. They are up here. [12:55] Justin: Stoked. Yep. And then also on the sports topic, Goodell announced the other day on Pat McIntyre, which if any of you guys ever or have not watched that, you got to tune into it. If you're sports fans. Guy's awesome. Football stadiums will be in full capacity too. So we're trending up the right direction. [13:11] Chad: There's no way that's what he says, [13:15] Justin: per Pat McAfee, we beat Covid. Although winners, you guys. 100, you hear? 102 people in Washington that have been fully vaccinated tested positive for Covid, and two died. [13:27] Chad: And wait, let me get this straight. We beat Covid. [13:29] Mark: Yeah. [13:30] Chad: Yeah. Anyways, we beat it. Justin, fake news. [13:34] Mark: It's like in baseball, you bet over 300. It's pretty damn good, right? So I think the statistics are still pretty high. [13:40] Chad: Okay, I like that. [13:42] Justin: Now, to some industry content. Something that came out yesterday was the outcomes podcast. You guys were listening to Ross, and our boy J.D. was on it. If you haven't gotten to listen to it, check it out. Mark, be nice to him. Everyone giving him a compliment. He leaves. No, check it out. [14:01] Chad: Awesome. [14:02] Justin: Awesome content in there. Mainly talking about how the. What's the word I'm looking for here, boys? Health, wealth, finance, all that's going to converge together. Thank you. Makes a lot of solid points, JD Points. [14:20] Chad: Yeah. [14:21] Justin: Bravo, boss. You did great. Per usual. Something else I thought was pretty. Pretty interesting that came out. Cue the this tinfoil hats again. A new study shows that participants actually prefer retirement checks, or. I'm sorry, monthly retirement checks or flexible withdrawals over being able to take money when they need to. [14:47] Chad: I read that article. I felt like that was a little bit of bullshit. Personally, the title makes it believe that, yes, they prefer that. But if you read the article and you look at the research, what they're actually saying is, would it be a good thing? Of course it'd be a good thing. When you read the way in which the questions are proposed, would monthly income that never runs out be a good thing? Yep. Yeah, absolutely. If I got monthly income that never ran out, yeah, count me in. But there's no real discussion on what the alternatives are or what impact that has or what costs are associated with it. So I felt like it was tainted. The data was tainted in the way it was positioned. [15:24] Mark: Here's the way I look at that. Not necessarily to that point of that article, just from a general standpoint, because they broke it down, I guess. Amber Forney's article by like, Generations, right? Gen X Millennials, what have you. And I think if you told somebody, do you want to continue getting a paycheck that you like what you're used to doing right now, but when you're not working, what's the answer going to be? Yeah, no, duh. Like, yeah, of course I want to continue to get what I know and not have to figure out that part of my financial situation down the line. But I think, more importantly, I think it's just the, excuse me bubble there. The tip of the iceberg for trying to get rid of the negative connotation behind, like, annuities. Right. I think it's just a warming up to that terminology or trying to change the flow of that a little bit more to where people immediately don't think down upon it when they hear that terminology. So I think it's a good thing. And I think it's. I agree with the fact that, yeah, anybody wants to get a monthly check, [16:29] Chad: you know, there's so many smarter people here than us. I'm curious if anybody in the chat bar knows, have we seen a statistic that shows how many folks who annuitize at retirement actually diminish their value of their balance or portfolio before dying? I'd be really curious. I think Greg mentioned who pays for it, and it was something that went off my mind that I never really thought about. I put the money in the plan, I'm paying for it. But I wonder at the end if I outlive my balance and perhaps the insurance company or the annuity provider is paying for it at that point. Wonder what percentage of people actually outlive their balance. [17:12] Justin: That'd be real interesting to find out. Another thought kind of came to my head and you guys might have said it when I was not paying attention, reading the chat bar was. And I think Nevin even mentioned this too. People, it's not really the right fit. And people are thinking, yes, it is something that we. We want right now. Kind of like you said to Chad. But they're not thinking of what their actual sum will be. Say they get an annuity and it might not be nearly as much as they thought it would be. Enough to live off of. So even though that may last for the entire lifetime too. [17:40] Chad: Yeah, it's got to be quantified, right? For sure. We lost Terminal. It looks like. [17:46] Mark: I like that logo right there. [17:49] Chad: Oh, it's friends. [17:50] Justin: Because we're friends. [17:51] Mark: Oh, no, I was looking at the Corona one. [17:53] Speaker E: The Corona. Our new girl made that for me. It was Samara's. [17:57] Chad: Oh, I missed it. [17:58] Mark: He's way better than you are, Brandon. [18:00] Chad: I cover B with the chat bar when we're doing this. Hey. Hey, Justin, that article that you're referencing, I'm remembering as I got. Actually, no, I am remembering there was no sponsorship of that. There was no annuity company paying for that article. I went and I looked. The gal who wrote it is not someone I had. I had heard of before or had read from before. But there was nothing else like that on there, was there? [18:29] Justin: It had to been Income America, man from behind the scenes. Follow the money. You'll find them. Perfect timing. [18:35] Chad: You need to put on your tinfoil id, Right. [18:38] Justin: I hope he is. I don't think he is. Nev Said Capital Group, American Funds. [18:43] Chad: Today it was cat burn. I just wasn't wondering if anybody added to it. Nevin. I couldn't remember if there was additional stuff pushed in by outside sources or not. All right, Justin, are you done? [18:55] Justin: I think we're done. [18:57] Chad: Okay. I know that you had one more that you had mentioned to me this past week kind of in passing, which was about common administrative plans. Yeah. [19:05] Justin: Yeah. Especially this time of year. [19:07] Chad: We can get into that deeper later. You can touch on it now. I think it's a. I think it was a well written article that missed its mark. But what's your impression? Tell us what. [19:19] Justin: So it's basically obviously as exactly as it sounds, the eight most common mistakes that people make when they're administering a plan, like not outsourcing, I think was 321, 338. Not properly understanding their control groups and what that means whether your controller affiliated groups catch people a lot. It's huge. Right. How many census do we get in that people say or tell us after we've already set up the plan that they are in fact a control group now. Right. Because they learned about it too late. Not providing the employee with the safe harbor notice. Just little, obviously. Which isn't a big deal anymore for the most part. [19:55] Chad: So definitely run into that. Yeah. I mean, you have a provider, that provider is giving you the notice for sure. So all you have to do is hand it out. As a plan sponsor. I like where Chad went, where Mickey went in there. Definition of compensation, I think eligibility tracking, if I look at it at administrative mistakes, probably the most common one I see is eligibility tracking. And you guys know this because we just went through the qk. It's not just about tracking first time. It's not acrosin mark. I know you wanted to hit that. It's not just about calculating eligibility at the beginning. Right. It's about when you rehire someone. It's about when they miss the mark on eligibility initially, and then it falls to a calendar year moving forward. And then do they hit it then? And at what point? You know, automatic enrollment and the nuances there. Yeah. There are so many new. [20:50] Mark: Chad, don't bring that up, man. [20:53] Chad: Oh, yeah, yeah. You're gonna get me rolling New chad. [20:55] Justin: What do you say? [20:56] Chad: Go there part time employee. [21:00] Justin: It's gonna be, it'll be curious to see how that pans out too. For all of us really for everybody. But I think about us as a TPA specifically. Another one I thought was good that I just saw was the not depositing employee deferrals on time. So happens all the time. And I, I mean I would say more so in the smaller market space and the large. Because typically you got committees and larger companies and whatnot. [21:21] Chad: But yeah, anyways going into that large market space, super interesting shit that, that, that came across my desk a while ago but it came up again today. I think it would be fun to talk about is looking at in plan Roth conversions, you know, people making after tax contributions into the plan and then wanting to immediately convert it to Roth for me at least. And Mark, probably same for you Justin, be curious if it's this way for you. We get a lot of these requests up in NorCal because you have so many big tech based companies up here. We've got Amazon and Salesforce and ebay and Apple and most of those employees are leveraging the retirement plan pretty heavily. You've got engineers, dual home income engineers making 400k each and they're leveraging the after tax contributions and converting and then they go to a smaller company, right. They move to a 10 person startup where they're getting stock options and they want the same flexibility. And I get that question, I don't know, four or five times a month on a startup plan looking to add after tax, thinking they're going to be able to fund it. Do you guys run into that often? [22:33] Justin: Yeah, go ahead Mark. [22:35] Mark: I was going to say I get. Not necessarily like in the setup process for a plan but I get questions from financial professionals on a fairly regular basis about current plans that they're getting. Knocks on the door of folks that just aren't, you know, they, they've got this plan available but they're just not able to put enough away and so they're looking for other ways and they have, you know, they're, they're having a beer with a friend or something and they're like oh yeah, at Google I can just fund after tax dollars and it's great. And I can do all this and they're like can I do that? And they work for a company where from an administrative perspective maybe the plan is just not, it's not going to work for them because of the testing that's required. And some of the other caveats and so I've run into, I would say, let's just call it, you know, 90% of the time, it's just not even feasible. When we go, when we actually analyze the demographics of the plan, 90, I [23:32] Chad: would say 99% of the statistics. [23:34] Mark: I was being kind. [23:35] Chad: Okay, so Mickey makes a comment. Mickey, you're going to see the theme of the content that we want to talk about tonight is going to end up leading down the path of plan. Sponsors want certain things, but don't understand the implications and the nuances around them. And so Mickey says in the chat that, look at this, you guys. You want to put in after tax, but it's subject to ACP testing. It's never going to pass, which is what Mark just alluded to. But Miggy, this is a conversation we're having constantly. And I will tell you the reason why I was so gung ho on it is because I've now seen it from Fidelity and I've seen it from Empower now, too, that I to me, super attractive. On the Fidelity Salesforce plan, one of the deferral options is when you exceed your personal 19, 5 or 26, depending on how old you are. You can click to do after tax that have daily in plan Roth conversion. Daily in plan, it's a button that you click in enrollment that will switch you that will do an in plan Roth conversion and move you from your after tax into the Roth bucket so that you don't have any earnings to be taxed on at that point. And now that money and the earnings can grow tax free in the Roth component. I mean, that's crazy. Crazy. Yeah. That is awesome. To me. [24:56] Justin: It's awesome. But it's also like you're still going to run into the same issue. [25:02] Chad: Well, you could. [25:05] Mark: What issue? [25:06] Justin: Of failing. You're now you're putting in. Yeah. Testing. You're going to fail the acp. [25:11] Chad: So here would be my comment, though, Justin. Mark says it works on 1% of groups. Right. The groups that it's worked on for us that we have set up as a TPA has only been firms that are only. Only owner practices. Owner only practices. [25:26] Mark: Right. [25:27] Chad: You have no NHCs. They're not hiring anybody. You've got five partners. They want to set it up like this. [25:31] Mark: Yes, we really should have done acronym. [25:33] Justin: I'm just saying we probably should have [25:36] Chad: at the head of some topics, [25:40] Justin: something Jason said that I'd be curious if you know this Chad and I don't know. I'm assuming he's referring to what we're talking about here. Not not responding to something else in the chat was it can only be used in hce only plans are solo case. I don't know if he was just referring to in general. [25:53] Chad: You only think he's just saying that's probably when it works from an hc. [25:57] Mark: So I just wanted to make sure it's most successful. Yeah. Because there's no. [26:00] Chad: But I think to the point let's not be naive like Salesforce has got their shit together. They're looking at it saying sheer number of employees. If we are giving a good non elective to everybody which they are. It's a lucrative plan for every employee that the number of HCES that want to do above and beyond the 195 it's not going to create a big enough ripple to force an ACP failure. So Salesforce has put this as part of the offering into the plan. [26:28] Speaker E: I'm putting Acro sin into play right now because nobody knows what the fuck you're saying. If you're new to 401k like no hce acp, it's like what? [26:42] Chad: But yeah I, I would argue Brandon that nobody in here right now. I'm looking at everybody. [26:46] Justin: Well I know but yeah but he's worried about the show that gets. I mean this is gonna make the customer for us. [26:52] Speaker E: That's why acro sins kind of theirs that. So we. [26:55] Mark: Let's be honest because we don't have a guest today. [26:58] Chad: The. [26:58] Mark: The only people here are the true fans of this show. We appreciate them and they're the nerds like we are. So thank them for being here. [27:06] Chad: By the way like a. [27:07] Mark: An inside little huddle discussion more than anything. [27:11] Chad: If you. If you don't want your pride pushed down then don't look at the number of attendees. It keeps dropping. When J.D. went off the air, I mean when Timberlake went off the air, the numbers came down. [27:24] Speaker E: When people leave, they get the fart registration. Yeah. And so I'm seeing all these people like fill out the fart. I'm like why are people. Oh, they're leaving the show. [27:37] Chad: So for those that quality not quantity. [27:38] Justin: That's right. [27:39] Chad: Nevin Acrosen is now in. But for those that don't know which I think everybody does, what we're describing is employees that want to put above and beyond what they can into the plan, they put it in and then after tax way pay taxes up front put it into the plan and now they try to convert that money over into the Roth 401k bucket so that when they Take the distribution or roll the money over. They won't have any tax implications on what they put in. And there's no earnings yet, so no tax implications. It's a smart thing that I think many advisors talk about. And when it fits and when it works, man, is it sexy. See? Should we do both? Should we do both? We'll do both. [28:19] Justin: Yes. Drink. You're drinking. [28:21] Chad: I'm going. Jack. Tonight [28:24] Mark: on LinkedIn, Jeannie Fisher, oddly enough had a post about. I mean she's been an advocate for, for Roth forever. Right. But she was talking about the same concept. So it's, it's one that a long time. [28:39] Chad: It's been a long time since I've [28:40] Mark: had Jack that I don't even feel good watching you take that shot. So actually there's folks out there that are, that are, that are preaching this and that. You know, it's. But it's a matter of figuring out who it works for. If it works for you. Yeah, it could be a hell of a way to put some money aside. Tax free. [29:01] Speaker E: Hey, speaking of Jamie Fisher and Roth, did you guys see her post today? [29:06] Justin: I did not. [29:07] Mark: That's what I was referring to. [29:08] Speaker E: This is, this is worth sharing. I just go ahead and share this. [29:15] Mark: Oh, the April, [29:42] Chad: She got me with that. I figured she was just tooting her own horn. I actually did not expect that to come. Come in afterwards so we can move on. We can move on from this implant Roth conversion. I think it's something that everybody, including the financial professional community should be prepared to talk about. I did see Our boy Chris McDavid is in the chat bar mentioned Hancock is doing that on large plans too. I love that you say they do it on large plans because that means it will probably be less of an issue for the plans that are going to fail in testing. I do like it when you say we do it on all plans but this one. I'm happy you're only doing it on large plans. Well done, Mark. Lead us into our first game, buddy. [30:30] Mark: Yeah, well today no, we are not playing lamer game or a movie game or whatever. We're trying something new. Shocker, shocker. We take over the show and try something new that's probably going to fail miserably. But anyways, if any of you have watched or seen Jimmy Fallon show ever before, he does this game, don't know what it's called but he uses Alexa and you try to get her to say a word. And Brandon has pre selected some words that we don't know. We tested it out before. Chad and I were hanging out, had a couple drinks. We tried to get Alexa to say the F word. She will not. [31:08] Chad: Come on, do it. [31:09] Mark: If you know how to get her to say it, please share. Let us know. [31:12] Justin: But we. [31:12] Mark: We could not figure it out. But we're gonna give it. We're gonna give it a go. [31:16] Chad: And. [31:17] Justin: Did you ask her? What. What does fornication under consent, the king, stand for? [31:22] Chad: Wait, what? [31:24] Justin: Fornication under consent of the king. [31:27] Chad: No. [31:28] Justin: When we were kids. [31:28] Chad: No, no, we definitely didn't ask her that. [31:31] Justin: You should have. She would have said it. [31:32] Mark: She sitting right here. Next. Alexa. Alexa. [31:36] Justin: Alexa. [31:37] Chad: B, what's our word? Brandon, are you going to give us our word? [31:44] Speaker E: Give me a moment here. I'm going to. Sorry, I turned this thing off. All right. [31:50] Justin: It's going just how I thought it would. [31:52] Speaker E: First, your word is. [31:54] Justin: I think you should. [31:55] Mark: Oh. And then the rules are if the. If you don't get her to say [31:59] Chad: it at the end [32:02] Mark: from the penalty, drink. [32:05] Chad: Oops, wrong one. Sorry. Stop. Brandon, do you want us to pick a word? [32:14] Justin: He did look at the screen. [32:15] Speaker E: Taco truck. [32:17] Chad: Okay, that's too worried. Okay, go ahead. Mark, you're first. Okay. Jesus. [32:25] Mark: Alexa, what type of vehicle sells delicious things inside of a shell? [32:36] Speaker F: Hmm. I don't know that. [32:38] Chad: Geez, Brandon, really hard one. You're up, Justin. I gotta go last [32:47] Justin: my. It's a two part question, [32:51] Chad: okay, Alexa. [32:54] Justin: No, I need more time. [32:58] Speaker F: I don't know that one. [33:00] Justin: I didn't either. [33:02] Chad: Brandon clearly has never played this game. [33:04] Justin: Alexa, we need a new word. [33:06] Chad: What is a vehicle that sells burritos on the side of the road? [33:13] Speaker F: Sorry, I'm not sure. [33:17] Chad: Okay, you get two parts. Yeah. [33:20] Justin: Okay. Alexa, what do people like to eat on Tuesday nights? [33:33] Chad: Go again. [33:34] Mark: Alexa. [33:35] Justin: Alexa, what do people like to eat on Tuesday nights? [33:41] Speaker F: Sorry. Sure about that? [33:43] Justin: Oh, my goodness, this is terrible. [33:46] Chad: Give us another one, B. Give us a single word, please. [33:51] Mark: Is that the word? [33:52] Chad: I feel like that was a Thursday [33:53] Justin: night's talk tonight, Jason. [33:56] Speaker E: Oops is the next word. [33:57] Chad: All right, Mark. [34:00] Mark: Alexa, what do you say when you accidentally spill something? [34:08] Speaker F: Sorry, I don't know that one. [34:10] Chad: Oh, my. Are you sure she's connected to the Internet? Mark? Holy shit. [34:14] Mark: Remember, she said something earlier? I thought. [34:17] Chad: Alexa, what would someone say if they fell? [34:23] Speaker F: Sorry, I don't know that one. [34:26] Chad: Alexa, how old are you? [34:29] Justin: Jesus. All right, moving on. [34:32] Mark: Alexa, what day is it today? [34:35] Speaker F: It's Thursday, April 1st. [34:38] Chad: Okay, we're trying. [34:39] Speaker E: Let me try. All right, Alexa, what are Britney Spears Top 10 songs [34:48] Speaker F: playing the top songs by Britney Spears. [34:50] Chad: Oh, you gotta have her listed. Rookie movie. [34:54] Mark: Just leave it on. [34:56] Chad: But that was good. Shut her down, Mark. Let's get her to say one industry related term and make her take a shot. See who can get her to say advisor. [35:10] Mark: Go, Justin. [35:11] Chad: You gotta stop her from playing music. [35:13] Speaker E: Mark, that was mine. [35:20] Chad: All right, go ahead, Justin. All right, [35:26] Justin: Alexa, what is the term for someone who educates you on finances? [35:38] Speaker F: Here's something I found on the web. According to Quora.com, however, most practitioners restrict the term to someone educated in the full range of tools of modern finance and whose work is informed by financial theory. [35:52] Justin: Nope, nope. [35:54] Chad: Go for it, Mark. [35:56] Mark: No, you were going backwards this time. Your turn. [35:58] Chad: Okay, Alexa, who is a person that practices finance? [36:09] Speaker F: Here's something I found on the web. According to sweetandmaxwell.co.uk PhilipWood is one of the leading authorities on international finance worldwide, as well as a practitioner and teacher. [36:23] Chad: Come on, Mark, don't make us look too dumb. Come up with one. [36:30] Mark: Okay, Alexa, what rhymes with Schmishmeiser? [36:42] Speaker F: Maya Gaia? Messiah. [36:45] Justin: Oh, we suck at this game. I'm not sure it's ever gonna make a comeback. [36:49] Chad: Come on, you got to get there, Justin. What do you mean? [36:53] Justin: I just did it. [36:54] Chad: No, you have to ask her one. [36:56] Justin: I think we're ready to move on. I'm not going to lie. [36:59] Chad: Oh, man, this was terrible, you guys. Gosh, maybe we should. [37:06] Justin: I agree, Greg. We got to burn this concept. Yeah, Brandon did. [37:09] Chad: If you've not watched Jimmy Fallon, this is a fantastic game, and it works very well when people are not using difficult words. [37:17] Justin: You can guarantee one thing about this. [37:20] Speaker E: To be honest, to find, like, words. And it went horribly wrong. And Jimmy Fallon, too. He's just better at playing off when it goes bad. [37:32] Chad: Thanks, B. We appreciate you. It's very, very kind of you. All right, geez. We'll jump into the next topic. This one carries a special place for me because I don't like some of the terminology we use in the industry for our profession. My question to you guys, and I'll tee it up a little bit, is, are we salespeople or are we consultants? And I asked this with a genuine heart, wanting to know the answer, because I'm running circles with many internals, with many externals, with many dci. Is that check swing high contribution investment only, folks. [38:13] Justin: No, that doesn't count. You got 75% of the way there. You pass the plan. [38:16] Chad: All right, and here's what I've. Here's what I've concluded recently is those who tend to work for a large company and I know many of you are listening in and don't take this negatively, I'm not talking about a specific person. Those that tend to work for a large company, they have quotas, they've got numbers. Their goal is to sell. That's what they were hired to do. That's their job description and that is the way in which the conversation tends to go. And I'll give you an example and JD and I were chatting with Nevin and a few others on this recently. When you call in to some of our friends in the bundled provider community, the conversation is often spoken is why would you work with a third party administrator? They're more expensive. There's not even a discussion of whether or not they could use that kind of expertise or what value they bring. It is a more expensive. And why is that statement there? Because they believe they have a better opportunity to sell the business to bring that client in the door if they're cheap or less expensive and if there's less headwind in that conversation. In that case that person is a salesperson. They're not a consultant. They're not trying to do what's right for the client. They're not trying to dig, they're not trying to learn. They're trying to sell. And so I'm going to ask you guys and we can break it down by profession if we're, if we're looking at this is the, is the fa, does that count? I was going to use that as my mix up. Does the financial professional. Is the financial professional operating as a salesperson or consultant more often? Are our record keeping partners? Are our investment providers? Give me your impression. Consultants or salespeople, what are you seeing? [40:02] Justin: I think it ranges depending on the financial professional to be honest with you. Some definitely do sell. And I mean that's not our style, that's not who we want to be by any means. We are more consultants especially if we're trying to do what's right for the participant. Absolutely. Or in a plan sponsor too obviously. Right. The client you absolutely need to consult. And I think that's where things are I think trending these days. Trying to get better know, trying to make the industry better in that regard. But you see it all too often still this, you know people are just doing what they can to, to win. The business will do whatever they need to because they have quotas to hit. They need to put food on the table. You know, they just have, you know they got to live and so I get that side of it, but that's not where things should be. And it's been an ongoing thing, a theme that I think definitely needs to change. [40:52] Chad: And you're seeing that in all walks. Justin, what do you come across more a consultant or a salesperson in this line of work? Give me a percentage. [41:04] Justin: 50. 50. Let's call it that. [41:07] Chad: Mark, what say you? [41:11] Mark: I don't want to say this, but I feel like I run into more salespeople than I do consultants. I would say I trend on that, on that side. And it's. I think it's a little bit of a. In some cases a lack of accountability and care in some senses where there's such a focus focused on dollars. Right. When we're. It's so unfortunate when we sit down and we want to talk about goals and we want to look ahead into the future and try to determine, you know, what's going to work now, what has greater flexibility, what are the things you need to succeed. And all there is is this worry about dollars and cents about how is it going to look when we talk about cost. And that to me that just reigns true for salespeople. [42:16] Chad: There's some good comments in there. The one I think I pull from most was Greg's, which is we consult until we sell. I feel like a good consultant can make selling part of the conversation. [42:27] Justin: Absolutely. [42:28] Chad: And you guys have. You've heard me say this from the moment we all started working together, which is our sole goal is to build trust. If we build trust, then that client or that financial professional will take our direction. Because personally, I feel like I know what is often right for the person I'm trying to help. I really do. [42:47] Justin: Yeah. [42:48] Chad: And so if I can build enough trust that they'll take my direction, then I can transition from consulting perhaps to always closing as I think Tony put in there and allow myself to be a sales guy at that point, make sure I bring it home. A, B, C, A always. B, B, C Closing. [43:06] Mark: Always be closing. [43:09] Chad: Always be closing. Here's my, here's my thought on this, guys. And this is where I think as an industry we've got to get better. If we are just trying to get a client in the door, then I would say 70% of the time we don't know what's right for them. And that's my issue with. And that's why I posed this topic when we were chatting earlier in the week, which is too often, I think folks come to us in the third party administrative community and say this plan's a done deal. Let's onboard it and I'll say, great. Do we know are they offering a match or profit sharing? Oh, no. We told them testing wouldn't be a problem and they're ready to go. What the hell did you tell them? No, they've got five HCs and four low paid NHCs. Yep, that's two. [43:59] Justin: And part of that though too is. I don't know, I think I've been coming across it a lot more. I'm sure you guys have. I don't know. Tell me otherwise. But so many clients want simple and easy, right? And salespeople just, they see that and they go for it, right? They're going to tell, yeah, hey, this is going to be simple. You're not going to have to worry about testing or hey, things are going to be integrated when they haven't even looked at their, who their payroll provider is and if they can work with a record keeper and whatnot and they sell them all this stuff saying, hey, your life is going to be super simple. But nobody thinks to look at the backside of that thing and pick up the slack where we know we need it. And that's where a lot of problems are occurring right now. [44:38] Chad: And that's. Dude, that's a fantastic bridge to a second conversation that we need to have, which is this industry is not simple. There are a lot of nuances. There's a lot of nuances we talked about a little bit earlier. Definition of compensation, tracking eligibility, all these tough things. How can we do better? How can we make this easier for the people we're trying to serve that we know. Damn. Even the ones that are really good at running benefits, that have an entire benefit team, that have five people sitting in a room that sold jobs from the benefits for this large organization, they still don't understand this stuff. So how can we be better as an industry and bridge that gap? Mark, I know you want to smear it off ice. I know. [45:25] Mark: You ready? [45:25] Chad: No, you want to smear it off ice. [45:27] Justin: We're just gonna cut right to it, huh? [45:30] Chad: I want, I want one. Although I didn't bring one out. [45:33] Justin: Let's do it. I hope it's jd. [45:41] Chad: Oh, you left JD in the ringer. Oh, thank goodness. [45:47] Justin: Don't do it. Don't do it. Are we doing the other one? [45:50] Chad: Yep. I hate that. This is 50. 50. This should not be 50 50. [45:58] Mark: Every time it's landed on that, hasn't it? [46:01] Chad: It's 50. [46:01] Speaker F: 50. [46:04] Chad: Ouch. Dude. [46:05] Speaker E: Not in my test, Mark, which I do right before, so. [46:11] Chad: Hey, guys. I just text Brooke and said I didn't bring a Smirnoff out, so the kids brought Smirnoff to me. [46:17] Mark: Oh, that means you've been iced. You have to drink it. [46:19] Justin: Oh. [46:20] Chad: Come say hi. [46:21] Mark: You're on a knee. Good. [46:23] Justin: Look out, Mark. Hey, Shay. [46:27] Speaker F: Hi. [46:28] Chad: Hey. [46:29] Mark: Your haircut. [46:30] Chad: We just got back from the water park, but there was no water, so we're getting in sprinklers. [46:36] Mark: So it was just a regular. [46:37] Chad: Oh, Covid times. [46:39] Mark: All right. [46:39] Chad: No, it wasn't. [46:40] Justin: No, it. They just didn't turn it on. [46:42] Chad: Take Riley out, guys, before she tears up my work. [46:47] Mark: Drink your drink, Justin. [46:49] Justin: I'm working on it. Just so people can't actually get it. [46:53] Chad: All right, guys, thank you. I have been iced, apparently, so I'm on it. It's not ice, though. Well, it's called a Smirnoff Ice, baby. [47:02] Justin: Yeah, but it's not ice. [47:04] Chad: No, it's not cold. I. Trust me, I leave it in the garage. Not cold for a reason. [47:08] Justin: Yeah. [47:08] Chad: All right. Jump out, guys. You don't need to see this. You don't need to see what Uncle Manny's about to do. [47:13] Justin: I already did it. [47:14] Chad: Oh, man. That's how quick you are. [47:16] Mark: Justin, your sign is cool, but I [47:18] Chad: can't read any of it. [47:19] Justin: I know it's hard. [47:20] Chad: You made a sign up. [47:22] Justin: We're on a limited budget. Almost there. [47:27] Chad: I will fulfill my duties of drinking the Smirnoff ice, but I'm going to tee this up, since you guys both just did right before we did that. [47:34] Justin: Hold on. Webby said something in the chat that made me think of something. Did you guys hear it was snowing so hard in Detroit today? [47:40] Chad: Yes. [47:40] Justin: I'm going to sports. That Miguel Cabrera couldn't see that he hit a home run. [47:45] Chad: I saw him hit a home run. I didn't see that. He didn't see it. [47:48] Justin: He didn't know it went out. [47:49] Chad: You know that I watch almost every [47:51] Mark: MLB goes out of the park because [47:53] Justin: it's snowing and it's white and the ball's white. Well, anyways, you know what they say, [48:04] Chad: so let's you know what they say for a second. I think it's the. The million dollar question. It was not fantastic. We are trying to make this business easier for the clients that we're serving, right? [48:18] Justin: Yeah. [48:19] Chad: And I'm not sure I necessarily. I want to agree with making it easier. I don't want to agree. Which you guys saw me get vocal with last week, about making it Less of a responsibility for them. Business owners, fiduciaries need to understand this is important stuff. Need to know what your responsibilities are, and you need to fill. Fill those responsibilities. My question is, can we take some more of that weight off their shoulders? We've attempted to, right? As an industry, we've attempted to. With the 316, we have made valiant strides at taking off some of that responsibility and getting deeper into the service aspect of this space, knowing that the average business has no damn clue how to run that plan. But do we continue to fail because we try to create all this excitement around automatic enrollment, auto escalation shit? We talked about it tonight. Adding these annuity features to the back end of these plans. We create complexity over and over and over to try to show value. And what we're really doing and more often than not is creating greater ways for the client to fail at running this plan. So what can we do? Do clients understand how to run this and I'm just being dumb, they know how to run these plans. [49:43] Mark: I. I was listening to Josh. It's those podcasts with Brad Bartles today. [49:49] Justin: That was a good one. [49:53] Mark: Was very. It was good to hear in some ways, but also shitty at the same time. Because the way Brad put it was to simply, like, looking at these plans, there's always problems. And that's inherently the issue is there's so much like, as you're saying, Chad, not to put Brad into this specifically, but there's so much complexity and plans are so different and there's all these rules and things to do that it's almost as if. And you know, the way Josh was saying it too, is like, if there was a perfect plan that exists, it would almost be like how in some ways. And they're saying it's actually good there to be failures because then you can create processes and create things to actually, you know, help your plan become better operationally and understand it more. So it's almost like a weird reversal look of like, yeah, let's screw it up now, and then we'll define ways to solve it, and that makes your plan better. So to answer your question, how do we make it better? I don't think it's taking away any of the bells and whistles. I think it's just finding people like Brad and like others who are willing to get in there and get in the weeds and make sure people understand this stuff because it's complex. [51:13] Chad: But do you. I'm confused a little bit there, Mark. Do you think that we are. We are making it unnecessarily complex. [51:23] Mark: I just think they're inherently complex. I don't think that we make them that way. Unless you're, unless you're sitting down in a meeting and you can tell that the person who's going to be in charge of this literally doesn't have the bandwidth to deal with some of the features that you just talked about 99% of the time and is doing, you know, payroll in house with a paper and a pencil. Right. Like jokingly of course. But yeah, you're going to set them up for failure. So you have to know your clients. And I'm not talking about these billion dollar companies that have masses of people [52:01] Chad: who are doing this. [52:02] Mark: I'm talking about more of our space that we operate in, in the small to mid market. [52:08] Chad: This goes back to a little bit of the conversation we have with Don Trone and I know he's trying to educate the next fiduciary and he's looking at that from a professional perspective. Choose my words kindly but wisely. Wisely. Kindly. [52:26] Mark: Yeah, it's got to be kind. [52:27] Chad: I'm trying to be kind with that if you get the gist of this conversation. But I also think that we need to come up with some really good educational tools for the people whose liability is to run the. [52:41] Mark: We. Who are you talking about? [52:43] Chad: As an industry, dude, that's what we're all about. We're trying to further this profession. [52:48] Mark: Okay, I wasn't sure. [52:50] Chad: So it goes back to the last consultant or sales guy. Are you selling the next plan? Are you trying to make this business better? I know you're answering. Are you asking theoretical question? [53:04] Justin: Mrs. Brandon brings up a good point. It might be slightly stretched but I am curious to see what your guys thoughts are. So we set the rules and regs but our politicians have made this complex and difficult because most of them don't understand squat about this space. What are your thoughts of that? [53:21] Chad: I will tell you, and I've said this a number of times, not to toot Nevin's damn horn any more than we have to, but I went into some meetings with ARA and some of the folks that are lobbyists for our profession thinking they've got, oh yes, I'll drink. They've got no clue. They, they don't, they don't understand the nuances of this space and the necessity for how complicated it is. The necessity for education. After spending time with Nevin and Brian, Brian Graff and others, the people who I will say are the politicians for our industry, I Was flat out wrong. Those folks do, they do get it. They do understand the nuances. But I think they pick and choose their battles wisely. What I will say to Lauren's point is. And Mark made it, it's a complicated industry. My point of this topic was to say, are we over complicating it by trying to sell. How many times? Guys, let me ask an honest question. How many times does an advisor try to push auto escalation on you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I owe two. I owe two. [54:29] Justin: Now that's become more popular recently. But over my six years of doing this, not a ton. You know, and unfortunately in my experience with it, a lot of the advisors. What follows after hey, we should use auto enroll. What? Oh, it's right. Anyways, so what follows after hey, we need to use auto enroll is because they want more flow going into the plan for more. Which I get. [55:02] Chad: Right. [55:02] Justin: And if it's a right decision for the client, I'm all on board for it. But if that's their only reason for it, I get a problem, I have a problem. [55:09] Chad: I hear you, Justin. And there was a couple comments in the chat bar. What's wrong with auto enroll or auto escalation? Not a damn thing. The problem is who has to run the auto enroll and the auto escalation? The client does. If there's full payroll integration and the client is attentive to the communications from the record keeper that says, hey, Mark's been here now for a year and it's January 1st. It's time to been here for 10. I know, it was an example, Mark. It's time to increase his deferral rate. And they're paying attention to those things. Great. They'll succeed with it. But I'm just telling you from a practical standpoint, when we bring those things up, I understand it is the right thing for the plan. I do. But I'm saying as an industry, when we push those into plans that can't operate it, and I call this balancing functionality with flexibility. When we push these things into plans that we know can't operate it, then we're setting them up for failure. And we continue to do that as a business. [56:12] Mark: So hold on. [56:13] Chad: As an industry, I should say. [56:15] Mark: Let me ask you this, and this is a great point. So you're in that meeting. [56:20] Chad: Yeah. [56:20] Mark: You have your financial professional pushing those concepts because of maybe a belief of. [56:27] Chad: And I'm super happy they're pushing them, by the way, like, great, but do it, push it, be involved. That's what we need. [56:33] Mark: But you can tell that it's not the best fit because of X, Y and Z. [56:38] Justin: And so what do you guys do at that point? I mean, are you having that conversation with them? [56:42] Mark: Where's the consultant sales line there? [56:44] Chad: Right. [56:45] Mark: I mean, and where do you take it from there? I get that. [56:48] Justin: Well, I think we need to take it upon ourselves to have that conversation as we are partners of the financial professionals. That was 50. [56:56] Mark: Yeah. [56:58] Justin: So. And we need to be that, that partner them and say, hey, look, I know how this is going to, you know, I know the path it's going to go down and it's not good. It's going to end up doing worse than it is better and we need to not do that here. So I'm sure you guys have had to do that before and I think that is part of that whole kind of. You're talking about consulting part, Chad, that's, that's our responsibility to have that conversation. Even if it's going to mean less flow into it for not as good for the plan participants or whatnot that are going to be saving for retirement. [57:29] Chad: Let me make a slight clarification, Justin. I don't necessarily think it's going to mean less flow because oftentimes when I run into this, this conversation, let's call it, let me give you an example. Let's call it a 7 person plan. People are all making north of 80k. They're going to participate, they're going to have dollars in the plan. They're likely not even going to be auto enrolled. They'll make their own elections because they're making good money. The auto features carry no weight. They carry no weight. There's no need for them to be there. They carry no value. But if they ever do, do you think that plan is ready, that client is ready to run it? [58:13] Justin: Absolutely. [58:14] Chad: Hell no, they're not. Ten years goes by and they never auto enroll or auto escalate a single person. Yet we write it into the document and now time comes for them to implement it and run it. Hell no, they can't do it. They won't. They're not going to know to do it. And that's kind of my point of this conversation is, and I get asked this question all the time, like hey, let's dial this up. Let's make it super sexy for this client. Let's really work on getting a lot of tax efficiency in. I'm in, I'm there. I'll do it with you. But I'm not going to do it at the detriment. Of them not being able to run the plan. And I think that that's important for us all to look at. We talked about it earlier in plan Roth conversions in small, small groups after tax contributions in small groups. Putting those things into plan documents is likely not in the best interest of the majority of the people that are in that plan. Could it benefit one person? Maybe. Is it actually beneficial to the plan? [59:17] Justin: No. [59:18] Chad: Is it actually beneficial to the average worker there? No. So why do we continue to try to push it? We complicate this industry as professions. We as professionals. We complicate this industry more than it needs to be. Fucking simplify it. Allow people to succeed in this space. Give them guaranteed income for life solutions, because that's what's going to help them succeed. We need to play bigger brother, but we need to do it in an intelligent way. [59:46] Justin: I hear what you're saying and maybe I'm just. I'm honing in on specifically what you're saying and not thinking about what you could mean broadly. But I'm a fan of it, though. Yeah. It may complicate some things, but it gets people saving that otherwise wouldn't have saved. Like, I'm a huge fan of that. [1:00:05] Chad: Can't disagree. [1:00:07] Justin: You know, that's why the hell we're all in this is to help people save for retirement. [1:00:11] Mark: So then what could a solution to that be? In my mind, it's, what if we loosen the reins a little bit on, like, if you fuck up, it shouldn't be this huge, massive shame on you. [1:00:27] Chad: Maybe. [1:00:28] Mark: Maybe it's a warning the first time, you know, like when you get slap on the wrist that you stop talking, you know, before you get sent in the corner. Right. So I don't know, maybe we can't. We can't look at ourselves, say we're trying to do what's right. It's the next step. It's the. It's the fear, it's the penalties. It's all these things that create these added complaints. You've screwed up, but we've hit 5:30 and I think that we need to play a song. I think we need to carry this conversation and additional drinking into the after show that nobody didn't plan for an aftershock. [1:01:02] Chad: I have a comment to that. [1:01:05] Justin: We've dropped 14 people since the wheel. [1:01:10] Chad: All right. Hey, Brandon, are you still there? Did you. [1:01:13] Justin: That means there's only 14. [1:01:14] Speaker E: Jake, I'm about to leave, but what do you want? [1:01:21] Chad: Push us out, B. Push us out. [1:01:26] Justin: It's just hot in here. Jason, you got a shiny head. [1:01:29] JD: It doesn't. [1:01:29] Chad: This is the greatest and best song [1:01:31] Speaker E: in the world, [1:01:35] Justin: Chad. [1:01:35] Chad: I'll take a shot if you can [1:01:36] Justin: name this band Tribute. [1:01:40] Chad: Long time ago, me and my brother [1:01:42] Justin: Kyle here, [1:01:46] Chad: we was hitchhiking down a long and a lonesome road. You could guess, though. [1:01:52] Justin: It's a horrible guess. [1:01:54] Chad: They're shy a shiny demon. [1:01:58] Justin: That's Tenacious D of the road. Black's band. [1:02:01] Chad: Yeah. [1:02:01] Justin: And he said. [1:02:07] Chad: I didn't connect, though. Sorry, Alex. Thanks for giving me yourself. [1:02:12] Mark: I think we should have thanked everybody for coming, Kyle. [1:02:15] Chad: Yeah, we probably should have. I did. In the chat bar, Mark. [1:02:19] Mark: And we thank you, everybody. [1:02:22] Chad: Do you think JD's in the air right now? [1:02:44] Justin: When the sun does shine and the moon doesn't. [1:02:53] Chad: Needless to say, dad Squared, I voted for the Beast, was stunned. A whip crack whipped his rumpy tail and the Beast was done. [1:03:03] Justin: He asked us. [1:03:06] Chad: Be your angels. He's gonna receive. [1:03:11] Mark: We are metallic. [1:03:23] Justin: He's still here. [1:03:33] Chad: So I. I vote. I vote that JD cannot win. We couldn't win. We could not win or. [1:03:40] Speaker E: He won. Sorry. [1:03:42] Mark: He won. [1:03:43] Justin: Hey, I get his prize in six to 12 months. [1:03:47] Chad: That's disappointing, Chad. [1:03:49] Speaker E: I'll send him something. [1:03:51] Chad: Two parts. [1:03:52] Justin: Number one, he says he must win. [1:03:54] Chad: Chad Squared needs to change his name on the show. People are making comments in the chat bar, like, great, Chad. And I'm like, yeah, they're talking about me. [1:04:02] Justin: Are you getting jealous? You make enough good fucking points. [1:04:05] Mark: Get over it. [1:04:07] Chad: Hey, careful. [1:04:08] Mark: Careful, Justin. He may cry on the mound again. [1:04:12] Chad: Yeah, I make. I may cry on the mound. You didn't see. You didn't see me this week. I almost cried, actually, a couple days ago, on the mound. The coach that we were playing for, Shea softball team, said no strikeouts. And the gal that is on my team, that's pitching kept striking out their hitters. And she didn't understand why I wouldn't call them out because I was the umpire. [1:04:32] Justin: Yeah, your daughter's 8. [1:04:34] Chad: She turned around at me. Yeah. It's still. They're proud of their successes, Justin. She turns around. I mean, she's like, that wasn't a strike. Like, no, Amelia, it wasn't a strike. I'm sorry. And then I talked to her afterwards, like, yeah, that was a strike, but we're not allowed to call him out. It was tough. That's a. [1:04:53] Mark: That's a coach's decision between you all before the game starts. [1:04:56] Chad: No, it's not. To be a pitcher in that, and it should not have been a coach's decision, but he had mentioned it, and so I did it, and I regretted it immediately. That looks. [1:05:09] Mark: Well, you're just gonna sip that, Brandon. Terrible. [1:05:12] Speaker E: Just drinking it. [1:05:14] Justin: Okay, that's the second one. [1:05:16] Mark: Mark, any. [1:05:17] Chad: Any. [1:05:18] Mark: Any debates we want to get into, Guys, after show. [1:05:22] Justin: Should we have an after show or not have an after show? That's the debate I want to get into. [1:05:25] Chad: I know. [1:05:26] Mark: I thought we were just. We'll just. [1:05:27] Speaker E: I'm gonna. I'm gonna end everything. Like, we'll stay in here, but I'm gonna stop.