403(b) vs 401(k): Nonprofit Plan Strategy & DOL Fiduciary Rules

[0:03] JD: Did mark do that? [0:07] Michael Aweb: No. [0:16] Speaker C: Was it showing the right screen? [0:17] JD: No. That time it was. Yeah. The first time it was showing us your control panel. Welcome, everyone, to another episode of Blah [0:27] Michael Aweb: blah blah blah blah. [0:28] JD: My name is blah blah blah blah blah. Just insert whatever cool intro works best for you and what I just said, and then everyone's happy. You get the intro you want. I'm going to read a poem. I'm going to read a poem. Let me put it right here so it looks like I'm memorizing it even though it's right by the camera. So, okay, poem time. This is emotional. Webby, Webby, Webby. Maybe take down the music a little bit if you can. Webby, Webby, Webby. What can we say? Our love for you is heavy, but not in a top heavy way. Our love for you is limitless, like a plan without 415. But don't think your time with us is frivolous, because if you were a woman, you would be our queen. 401k, 403b and cash balance too. Webby, we love these things almost as much as we love you. Your podcast is totally rad and your blog is on fire. Sometimes I think Fred Reich might be your dad, which means your mom is a liar. So let me say on behalf of the show, we can't wait to learn all that you know. But if you say the wrong word, don't forget to drink your drink and stay clear of Mark, because that robe can really stink. Today is a day for Smirnoff and regs. Let's drink enough to empty two kegs. By the end of the show, we'll have a CBC and I will most likely really need to pee. But don't ever forget the holic's love for you, Webby. You're always our bestie through and through. That's it. Oh, I almost, almost, almost teared up. Almost teared up there. It was emotional. Justin, why don't you give this guy [2:38] Michael Aweb: I'm a fucking prison, I'm planning bullshit. [2:42] JD: Why don't you give this guy a formal introduction? Justin McNeil. [2:45] Justin: I don't even know what the point of a formal introduction is after that, [2:48] JD: but I just made up a bunch of shit. You give him the real facts now. [2:52] Justin: That's right. You look like you're reading right at the camera. All right, so this week's guest, industry leader and a very close friend of the show, former VP of Commack retirement group and one of the newest members of captrust. He's a co moderator of Plan sponsors ask the expert Experts columns for 403 plans. He's the author of topmind, blog post revamping retirement podcast, creator of the Webby room rating. But most importantly, he's retireholics biggest advocate for making it on the COVID Ladies and gentlemen, the creator of the Webby room rating and a man who has one of the most genuine looking smiles I've ever seen, Mr. Michael Aweb comma. CEBS. [3:34] JD: Nice, nice, nice, nice, nice, nice. Good job, Justin. Speaking of the Webby room rating, let's ask the audience to give us all a Webby room rating right now. So put the person's name and your Webby room rating that you think they should get. [3:56] Michael Aweb: I'm expecting those cards. Julie says 11. [4:03] JD: Here's the Chad. Chad can't get in on the bed. [4:06] Mark: Disappeared out of the file upload there. How's that? [4:12] JD: What? Mine's flipped. Yours is flipped? [4:15] Michael Aweb: That's funny. [4:16] JD: Anyways, anyways, I'm keeping it. [4:17] Mark: Webby. [4:21] JD: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Housekeeping. Housekeeping. Let's see. Webby, gallery view. [4:27] Chad: You thought we weren't actually spying on you. We have been. [4:31] Mark: We're living in your house now. [4:33] JD: Hey, if. If you're new out there and you're a rookie, get your together, get in gallery view. That's the best way to watch this thing. We're going to be playing Acrosyn Syn. It starts now. So if you haven't. If you don't understand that game. If any of us say a acronym or an initialism, you must drink from your nasty drink. And I'm going straight off the makers [4:56] Chad: today because you're drinking pepperoncini juice. [4:59] Mark: Yep, I'm drinking peppercini juice tonight. [5:04] Justin: After last week. [5:05] Chad: No, because he has to dry. [5:07] JD: Yeah, that's a great point, Coach. [5:09] Mark: My son's baseball game. [5:11] JD: Webby, you should know Mark and I love you. Just like the poem said. Justin and Chad have a hard out at 5:30, so everyone give them shit in the chat bar. They've got families and loved ones to do things with. Let's see, we're gonna have acrostone starts now. We're gonna have a chat bar champion for sure. So audience, make sure you're paying attention to that chat bar so you can vote for the winner. And Webby, don't forget you're gonna vote for someone to get into the semifinals. So do your best to pay attention to that but focus more on being the guest. Focus more on being the guest. Let's see, let's see, let's see. You know what? Are we going to do Wheel of ice? The old and unimproved wheel of ice? We are, Brandon. Let's go ahead and just get that sucker out of the way, man. Let's spin it. [6:00] Mark: Oh, you can't see it because you. [6:02] JD: Brandon, get your background off. There we go. Oh, Brandon. Oh, no. All right. Second wheel. Second. Spin it. Spin it. [6:15] Mark: I didn't even bring drop in liquor tonight. [6:20] JD: It is always, always been froze. [6:23] Mark: Never been anything else. [6:24] JD: It's always been froze, Brandon. You're muted, but it's probably better that way. [6:31] Speaker C: The test landed all and. And safe. But this does land safe. [6:36] JD: It's never good when the producer is drinking more. That means things go wrong. Let's dive right into headlines breaking news because we've had a lot of shizn going down in the industry over the last week. I think it was Tuesday. The DOL came out with a little something something on the fiduciary rule. Oh, shoot. Do Department of labor. [7:02] Mark: Mark's trying to load you. [7:03] JD: Yeah. On the fiduciary rule guidance. Webby, I know you just pay close attention to that stuff. What was your take on it? Anything massive? Is this something that advisors need to pay attention to? I mean, give me a little summary of it. Yeah. [7:23] Michael Aweb: Pretty awful that we had nothing to talk about this week because the deal was. Oh, I got one too. Oh, good start, by the way. Guys, I'm really motivated tonight not to drink the Jenny cream ale. Those of you in the northeast will know why. [7:37] JD: Be careful. Be careful. [7:39] Mark: I'm gonna have to order some. [7:40] Michael Aweb: Oh, that's nasty. [7:42] Chad: Can't be that bad. [7:45] Michael Aweb: It's 3.99 a six pack. It's bad even half 30. [7:49] Mark: You know, Webby, the article want to [7:51] Chad: try that so bad. [7:52] JD: Now, the article that you had passed along to us from benefits Pro had a little interview of the reshenator, and Fred kind of said like, hey, there's nothing new here. Like, this was all in the long winded preambles that Fred reads late at night, you know, in the past. But. But he kind of. His take on it was. This is kind of a more regular guy friendly kind of piece that's given us some faq, oh, shit. Frequently asked questions and. And stuff. So anyways, give me your take on it, Webby. [8:28] Michael Aweb: Yeah, so the department of labor, you know, in the latest guidance, really kind of has said what Frederica has been saying for months. So really, I read it and I was like, you know, what's. And what's. You know, what's. The big bombshell that they're gonna drop or anything like that. Because basically all. It's all. If you, if you read it, you're hard pressed to think that the future of rollovers is gonna be anywhere like it is now. Where you have, you know, broker dealers and other places rate basically rating retirement plans for assets. I experience it myself. I work with a plan where I happen to speak to the participants. And I could tell you probably about 30% of the calls I get are some participants sitting with their wirehouse person or somebody like that can't wait to get the money, their person's six figure balance out of their retirement plan. [9:28] JD: Right. [9:28] Michael Aweb: And the dol season. [9:32] JD: Oh boy, that's too, that's true. [9:34] Mark: You can't admit. [9:35] JD: Yeah, hey, we get that. We get that as a compliance administrator too, all the time. Where you know, my, my team will reach out to me and be like, hey, there's this advisor who wants to do a rollover, but it's not the advisor on the plan. And it's, it's always kind of a weird conversation. But continue on Webby. Sorry. [9:52] Michael Aweb: Yeah, and I think, you know, basically Fred Reich has been talking about this in The Fred Reich 100, I call it, which is first he did 100 on the fiduciary rule and now he's doing 100 on the exemptions now part of the new and improved fiduciary rule, so to speak. And if you read those, they've almost all been dedicated to this idea of the department of labor cracking down on rollovers. And really all the FAQs were about, were about pretty much about rollovers. [10:32] JD: FAQ frequently asked questions. [10:33] Michael Aweb: Don't do it again. [10:36] JD: Watch. He's going to be hammered by. Who would have known? Who would have known. Webby will be the all time loser of acrosin. [10:44] Michael Aweb: Although at 399A6. And my college memories of this particular beverage is that it's pretty light in terms of the alcohol, I would imagine. [10:59] JD: Can I ask you guys, Chad, Mark, Justin, how many of the advisors that you work with, what percentage do you think rollovers is a part of their business model where they're trying to grab rollovers out of plans? [11:14] Chad: Probably [11:16] Mark: 50%. [11:17] JD: A big deal. That's a big deal. So then when guidance like this, again, this isn't nothing new, but when you have these exemptions that are in place where if you check certain boxes and do certain things properly, then you can protect yourself as an advisor or a broker, dealer or a large financial institution. This is important stuff that definitely it's a reminder to make sure that you've got everything in line and you're doing it properly. [11:45] Chad: Agreed. [11:46] Mark: I'll tell you, the general premise and conversations I've been having with advisors have been. I'm really not willing to look at it again for the sixth time over the past four years until things are solidified. And I think now we're at that point where people are going to start looking at it again. But every time you try to bring it up in conversation with folks who are operating in this space, most advisors are saying, just leave me out of this side of the conversation until there's something really to talk about. And we're there now. [12:12] Michael Aweb: And to be clear, some people are not going to be affected by this. The RAs who are fiduciaries, they're not going to be affected by this. This is only about people who are not fiduciaries. [12:24] Mark: It's beneficial for them. Right, Mike? [12:27] Michael Aweb: It's actually beneficial for people who are already fiduciary. [12:31] Chad: We had one there, Webby. [12:33] JD: Well, what did he do? [12:34] Mark: Registered investment advisor. [12:36] JD: Oh, there you go, buddy. Keep pounding that cream. Whatever it is. [12:40] Chad: Cream soda. For all intents and purposes, what it [12:43] JD: sounds like we don't have to go [12:45] Michael Aweb: to be would be fun. [12:47] JD: But there is a little part that, a little part that I thought that was kind of interesting where he was talking about how the advisor had to first work with the participant to get the plan information, right, the fees, the investment, that type of thing. But if the participant wasn't cooperating or they somehow couldn't get that information from the participant, that then as a secondary act, they could rely like the 5500 and kind of typical benchmarking. And again, this is like, you know, if you're going to do a rollover, you need to make sure that it's in the best interest of the participant. Right. And that they're not, they're not leaving a plan that's got really low fees and going into your rollover that's got very high fees unless there's value there and stuff. But this is interesting to me because to me it's, it's. I would love to get a closer look at how some of the advisor institutions are dealing with this. You know, what disclosures, what checklists. I mean, is this something that your firm. Webby puts the hammer down and says, look, if you're going to do a rollover, you have to use this and do it this way and check these boxes. [13:57] Michael Aweb: Indeed. And when I was making the comment about a registered Being a registered investment advisor, that refers to firms such as ours where registered investment advisors are involved. So they're already fiduciaries. So there's not a concern. It's the entities, like I said, that aren't fiduciaries. And we're going to talk about primarily, obviously, the record keepers, broker dealers who may not be registered investment advisors. They could be, of course, dually registered. Those are the entities that are going to have to change because Chad was saying that, you know, they've taken a wait and see attitude until the writing is on the wall. Well, I think the writing's on the wall. I can't see an environment where business as usual for rollovers is going to [14:44] JD: continue that's going to impact some of those firms you just talked about. I mean, we know there's some large record keepers that my understanding is put a lot of resources, a lot of people, a lot of money into those. Getting those IRA shoot, those individual Retirement Account rollovers. Was that a check swing? I think no, [15:08] Mark: I hadn't put much thought into J.D. many of these record keepers have consolidation teams, right? When they're bringing over a plan that they aggressively go out to the participants and say, hey, do you have any outside individual retirement accounts? Do you have any old 401ks? And they aggressively try to pull them in. I've always looked at this from an advisor perspective, a BD perspective, but it's going to apply to those record keepers as well, right? Oh, man. Pepperoncini juice. I said broker dealer for sure. [15:39] JD: Well, anyways, keep your eye on it. There's plenty of articles out there. Check out Nevin's article because it's really well done. He did a great summary of it. And let's move on to the other one that came out during the week, CyberSecurity. So new DOL cybersecurity guidance. Here we go again. It's kind of in the form of frequently asked questions and kind of little guidance pieces, which I think is kind of cool. It makes it easy for me to read and easy to understand. But on cybersecurity, what it was kind of tips for the industry as my. Was my biggest takeaway on things you needed to do to kind of shore up your. Your office and how you deal with that. Mike, I think you wrote a little piece today, so you might have done a little research. I mean, as an advisor, what's your. How do you come away looking at the cybersecurity stuff and this new guidance from the dol? [16:34] Michael Aweb: Yes, indeed. I just. My piece actually Just came out right before the show, about an hour before. So plug, plug with regard to. [16:45] JD: Okay. [16:45] Justin: Department of Labor. [16:47] Michael Aweb: Oh, he did it again. Or me. [16:49] Justin: J.D. [16:50] JD: and yes, Julie, I'm straight from the bottle. [16:54] Michael Aweb: Well, unlike the fiduciary guidance, the Department of Labor never has issued guidance on cyber before cybersecurity. So this was brand new. And again, probably like Nevin and a lot of people, people out there, I was like, guidance and back to back days. More stuff I have to write about. But if you look at the guidance. [17:19] Chad: Right about it. [17:21] Michael Aweb: Yeah, I guess no one's putting a gun to my head or anything, but because I love this stuff, I have to write about it. But what, what happened, what happened with this particular guidance is if you. I was kind of dreading it when I first. [17:35] JD: Right. [17:35] Michael Aweb: And I was going to say, oh, this is going to be like 100,000 pages of a proposed temporary rule that'll never get enacted anyway because, you know, the fiduciary rule after decade, over a decade has been. Hasn't been finalized yet. And then I go to it, and I was kind of disappointed from that perspective because it's a grand total. Anybody want to guess how long the guidance is? Grand total number of pages. [18:02] JD: Six, ten. [18:04] Michael Aweb: Pretty close. That is extreme brevity on the part of the Department of Labor. I don't know if I've seen anything that short, so perhaps you can chime in in the chat. [18:14] JD: The way I take it is like we're kind of dipping our toe in. You know, it's finally that moment of saying, hey, look, this isn't just something to talk about. This is something that we're going to be very clear and distinct. Like, this is a responsibility. It's going to need to be addressed. And so I think this is just an evol, right? I mean, let me ask you guys that this show is supposed to really be for advisors to kind of improve their practice, get better at what they do. Is cybersecurity already part of a point of sale? And do you think that the prospect cares? And have you seen anyone successfully presenting why, you know, their partners have that in a good way and that helps them win the business? I'll go to you, Chad. I mean, it's just a topic. [19:04] Mark: Very seldom do I see advisors talking about their cybersecurity, but I do see them positioning the record keepers they're trying to bring in on a specific case and the strength of their cybersecurity teams. And I've seen record keepers leverage it to win business. But most advisors have disclosures in what they're handing across the table. But outside of that, nothing's touching on the cybersecurity side. Remember, most of the folks I'm talking about are the registered investment advisor folks. They're not the big broker dealerships. [19:32] JD: I feel like there's an opportunity there for advisors, compliance administrators. Sure. I mean, we kind of assume or at least we hopefully we're not naive. I mean, we assume that record keepers got their shit together. Right. And I think the ones we work with definitely have worked hard at policies. They've got pretty expensive tech behind the scenes that's tracking all kinds of crazy stuff. In terms of these requests. I know compliance administrators, traders, us personally, like we work really hard at what we do. But it seems to me this is an opportunity for advisors to get to understand it more, get their talking points kind of together so they can walk into a meeting and say, hey, look, my partners have this figured out. You're safe with us. It's a big deal. [20:16] Mark: I might be a big deal in a certain market size, jd, but you know where the majority of plans are transitioning, it's going to be sub 10 million and. Sub 10 million. This isn't really a conversation that's to going, being had. And I don't think they're worried about it. It will be really. [20:30] JD: Well, you know me, I'm always. [20:33] Chad: Yeah, I wouldn't say they're not worried about it. I would just say that they're almost. [20:37] Mark: There's. [20:38] Chad: It was just in the chat bar like it's, it's a big assumption that that's being taken care of. Right. Like, hey, I'm paying you. You better have something in place to, to protect these participants. To protect what I'm doing when I'm sending you information. So I don't. [20:56] JD: I think Mark nailed it, Chad. I think they assume, those clients you're talking about, they assume that everything's done right. Therefore the opportunity for the advisors to say, hey, that's not really true. There are gaps, there are holes that you need to. [21:12] Chad: Whoa, whoa, Janie. Are you saying to use this as a sales technique? [21:16] JD: Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. [21:19] Chad: Shame on. [21:21] JD: You know, it's not shame on me because it's a good thing. You're. You're trying to let them know that [21:25] Chad: you're imprudent so that as clients, administrators. Can you look yourself in your brother's eyes and these are it Guy. [21:32] JD: Oh, dang it. [21:34] Chad: And, and say that we've got our shit together. [21:38] JD: I think it's evolving. But I would say I'm very proud of Brandon and our team. You know those managers, they've had several meetings over the last few years. We have a process, we have checks and balances. So yeah, compared to our peers, we do a pretty solid fucking job. Yeah. [21:58] Speaker C: As far as TPAs go, [22:02] JD: Brian and I were having these meetings two years ago. Yes. [22:04] Mark: Chat well. And I would say we certainly have our shit together, quite honestly. And Aaron asked in the chat bar, are the compliance administrators ready? No. Mark, not going there. Ready for an RFI on this. You are response was no. Because I will be honest, while we have things really well buttoned up and figured out on our end, we're not ready to communicate that to a client. Of all of our procedures, there's nothing that is explanatory that's good for us to hand out to show what we're doing as a whole. And I think that that's what an RFI is going to look for when. [22:45] JD: That's a great point. It's always good when this, when this show turns into like value for our company. Brandon, you sell for a while do you think? [22:55] Justin: Or is it before it becomes actual, like, hey, you have to have this level of compliance and this level of security across every, you know, vendor, third party administrator, all that. Or is it just going to continue to be guidance to where it's kind of this is what you should be doing, but it's not really helping. [23:11] JD: It's a great question. I don't know the answer to that. But I would tell you right now, as a compliance administrator owner, I don't need any more pressure than just the pure liability of it. All right? Like that scares the shit out of me. So I don't care what the government says. I'm worried about something going wrong and my company being liable. But Chad, you brought up the fact that you guys don't necessarily have the bullet points or the sales ammo to use that in a point of sale. We need to deliver that to you because Brandon and I have been working on this for two years. So anyways, I do think it's opportunity. [23:47] Speaker C: Real quick, J.D. i just want to say to everyone out there, if you don't have, if you. You're using Office 365 and you don't have MFA multifactor authentication. [23:58] JD: Drink? [23:59] Speaker C: I don't. [24:00] JD: I don't have a button. Dude, [24:05] Speaker C: turn that on. Make sure you turn that on. Multi Factor Authentication. It's part of office 365. God, I'm drunk already. You have to have. Just email me if you don't know what the fuck that is and I'll help you. [24:21] JD: Thanks for the public service announcement. And by the way, my brother can be your. What is. What does it stand for? Well, Internet technician or something. Information. [24:32] Michael Aweb: He can be. [24:33] JD: He can be yours too. Just give him a call. It's free. [24:37] Michael Aweb: And that's a good point about multi factor authentication is that's still. I'm still seeing some. I don't know so much about the third party administrators, but I'm seeing some bundled record keepers, especially on the smaller side, that still don't have that when participants access their account. [24:56] Mark: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. [24:57] Chad: Webby, Webby. You have plans that are bundled. Can we just kick. [25:04] Michael Aweb: That's a whole other topic. [25:10] JD: Did Nevin. Did Greg ask what JD Stands for? And Nevin said, idiot, thumb sucker? Or is that. I don't know. What was I gonna say? Damn it, I lost my train of thought there. Never mind. Screw it. Let's move on. I want to. Let me ask you guys something. How do you feel? I'll go to you first, Mark. How do you feel about, like, when you show up to a conference and the entertainment is like a bunch of old kind of washed up rock stars, [25:46] Chad: or like, we will be in 25 years. [25:50] JD: Or you show up to, like a virtual conference. Julie says, Careful, J.D. i did not mention anyone specifically. Or you show up to a virtual conference and you see like, some dude that was a baseball player and he was in the hall of Fame and he's like, he's doing a thing on Zoom and I don't know, they paid him a thousand bucks. I mean, does it. Does it leave you feeling a little weird? Because personally, me, I look at those, Those washed up rock stars and the hall of Famer, and I have this moment of like, fuck, this sucks, man. Like, why are they here doing. [26:23] Mark: No, it's. [26:23] Chad: It's a thousand percent weird. I've had that thought before and I. I mostly think about how did that even occur? Like, how did that connection to that person, to that, let's just call it hall of Fame baseball player that they're like, do you want to come to this financial services conference and talk about your career? And why did they say yes? And you're just going, oh, it's the money. [26:53] Mark: It's for sure weird. [26:54] JD: Well, let me hold on, let me hold on. If, if, if you can give a powerful keynote about your life, I'm okay with that. Like, that's inspirational. Whatever. Well, Brandon, come on. The Good. I. I'm just more worried like. Don't you guys have a guess? Webby, what do you think about that? I mean, I know you've experienced some of that. You're probably a fan of it, huh? [27:17] Michael Aweb: But that I've been a rock star and having a big ball. [27:20] JD: You're in the hall of fame. I mean, how do you feel, how do you feel when you hop on a virtual zoom and there's some hall of fame baseball player who's been paid to like, you know, say hi to everyone for 15 minutes? [27:33] Michael Aweb: Well, I generally don't do that. I've seen, I've seen, I've seen ex players at conferences, at retirement conferences. [27:42] Mark: Same thing. [27:42] JD: Yeah, fair enough. [27:43] Michael Aweb: Yeah. I mean, I don't, I don't really have any. I mean, I really don't have any issues to it. I actually like, usually they give a talk about, you know, their playing days and stuff and sometimes they'll. They have a tie into the industry, so they'll talk about that. [28:01] Chad: Why are we asking Webby who's like legit, one of the nicest people I've ever met. [28:07] Michael Aweb: We're asking him because apparently when I get sales DMS on LinkedIn, well, that counts too. [28:15] Chad: What I'll say is I think there's a database. [28:20] Michael Aweb: There is? [28:21] Chad: Yeah. [28:21] Justin: There's. [28:22] Chad: People enter into this and they're like, hey, I'll do anything. I don't care where it is. I'll show up. Here's my rate. [28:30] Mark: You know, Mark, you, You, you sent me years. Well, maybe not years ago. A year ago, the website where you can pay any celebrity to record a video for you remember the one I sent you? [28:42] Chad: But at least some of those celebrities are relevant. [28:46] JD: All right, we'll move on. And nevin. Not an odd topic, actually something that Brandon and I were texting each other about when these things happen and it makes me feel a little weird and it's not self serving. I could give a shit about, you know, where we are. I'm not playing politics about any of this stuff. It's honestly comes. Comes from the heart. I think it's a little weird. Let's move on. [29:05] Justin: A lamer game. [29:06] JD: Yeah, right. Good lamer game thing. Let's. [29:09] Chad: I need a third question. Thank you. [29:12] JD: Let's move on to what I think is kind of Webby's area of expertise. 403B plans. And let me kick it off by saying. Let me ask you this question, Webby, if I'm a 401k pro, but I don't have any 403b knowledge or experience, and a plan kind of falls in my lap. Like, can I take that on and do the job, or do I lack the experience or the intel? Like, how do you think? And this might lead us to discussions around the difference between. For. I hope it does. Between 403 and 401k, and we'll get to that. But can a 401k person take on a 403b? Yes or no? [29:53] Michael Aweb: Absolutely. I mean, in 1991, when I started, I probably would have said, you probably need a little bit of the experience behind you, but you can. You know, it's a defined contribution plan. If you work hard and you do your homework and you do your research, you know, there's so many resources out there available for even 403B plans, even though they get a little short shrift that to become a scholar, 403B is not, you know, I don't think is a terribly difficult thing. Now, if you're taking on a defined benefit plan for the first time, obviously that's a way different animal. But what you're talking about here is you're talking about two types of defined contribution plans. Are there differences? Yes, but there are a lot of similarities. There are a lot more similarities between the two plans now than when I started in 91. They were almost completely different. But thanks to Congress, I can thank Congress here. They're a lot more simple. So now. So it's a lot. I'd say you could easily. Now, if a giant, I don't know, $1 billion for 403B plan falls into your lap, that might be a challenge. But if, like, a small local nonprofit fill in your lap, I think you could easily handle it. [31:18] JD: Jason Grant says universal availability is an eye opener to a 401K Pro. So let's. Let's pretend that our chat bar is not full of a ton of experienced people, even though I know it is. What are some of the differences between 403B and 401K? I'm talking, like, ADP test top heavy. Like, let's cover some of those. Oh, shit. Actual deferral. [31:42] Mark: Hey, before we go there, Webby, before you start to get into the differences, let me say, because it needs to be addressed, taking on a 403B moving forward can be very simple. Can be like a 401k. And Julie mentioned it at the beginning of this topic in the chat bar. Taking on a 403B that's been in existence for some time is often very complicated because it's sitting in old individual annuities that have surrender charges, that have assets that have to stick behind if you're moving it. There's a lot for an advisor to be aware of if you're taking on an existing 403. [32:18] JD: Damn it, Chad. That was my follow up question. You're right. No, no, you're right. That's good stuff. Good stuff. Good stuff. [32:24] Michael Aweb: I mean, and that's probably, I would say lesson number one in terms of if I could think of the first thing you would need to know if you knew nothing about 403 plans and you're a new person jumping in is they're not as portable as a 401k. You can't just pick up the stakes, you know, empty the trust out and have a new trustee over here and a new, you know, service providers. [32:52] JD: Not only are they not as portable and there's, there's kind of conversion issues that might come as a shock to 401k pros like what Chad was talking about. I think if you don't understand that there might be these left behind accounts and you're not working with partners that understand that and can handle those, like you're, you're kind of heading down the wrong path. But I also think I'll be really simple. Kind of over simple here is like you also don't want to walk into a 4, 3B and B talking about a failed ADP test or you know, a safe harbor for solution to top heavy. [33:24] Michael Aweb: That's a tough one. [33:25] JD: You're also, you're typically is it all the time. But you're not dealing with this with a chief executive officer. You're dealing with an executive director. You're dealing with a board that's making decisions. I mean it is a different, it's a, it's a different space for sure. That's what I want to talk more about. [33:45] Michael Aweb: Well, let's talk about the pluses first and then I'll get into some of the, some of the minuses. You kind of hit the nail on the head with. We have this thing called universal availability, which I always thought is a good thing. Basically you don't run any tests based on deferrals. So that chief executive officer or pro provost or basketball coach or whomever is working in a nonprofit entity, they can defer the maximum. They're never going to have to worry about that because there's no test that's going to prevent them from deferring the maximum. On the flip side, everybody has to be in generally there Are some exceptions, but they don't work very well. You're better off letting everybody in. But let's not kid ourselves. That's where the 401k plans are headed with this new part timer guidance. That isn't like something that the IRS is just going to start and then stop. I think the trend there. [34:49] JD: Internal Revenue Service. Take a big swig, Webby. Big swig. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [34:54] Justin: There you go. [34:55] Michael Aweb: Oh, but it's so nasty, Jay. I have to drink. As I said in the chat, the good. [34:59] JD: Why don't you try a little bit of this shit? No, it's keep going. [35:05] Michael Aweb: But that's the, you know, that's a primary difference. But I think that won't be a difference in the next 10 years because I think there'll be very similar rules for the 401k plans in that regard. [35:19] JD: How about products and Megan shifted over to the guys here. I mean, it used to be, I would say 10 years ago, you'd say, like, well, there's not as many products in the 403 space as there are in the 401. Is that still true to this day? Whereas pretty much all your big players have a 403B option, right? [35:38] Mark: Yeah, yeah. [35:39] Michael Aweb: Not so true nowadays. I think it used to be a very niche market. And if you look at the top 10 401k providers by assets and compare them to the top 10 403b, yeah, you'll see some differences, but not as many as you did years ago. [35:57] Mark: Most of them are even on the same chassis. Now, J.D. hancock, that doesn't offer a 403B, pretty much everybody else does. And it's on the same chassis. Back in the day, that was difficult. You would be selling a Plan 401K plan with an advisor on one chassis with principal and then a 403B that was an entirely different chassis where the website was different, the investment options were different, the full setup was different. Almost irrelevant. Now pretty much Everybody has a 403B solution. Some of them, like Empower and others have minimums, but the rest of them come down to startup and are offering a true 403 solution. [36:35] JD: Webby, if I was sitting down with you having a beer and I asked, what's the difference between ERISA and non ERISA 403B plans? [36:45] Mark: Double. [36:48] Michael Aweb: Well, the employer Retirement Income Security act plans. [36:57] JD: Tom, Tom, Tom. It's straight bourbon or whatever the hell is whiskey. I can't. I'm taking sips. They're not shots, they're sips. Yeah, whatever. Bro. Sorry, Webby, go ahead. [37:10] Michael Aweb: Well, first of all, that's not just purely a 403 issue, because, of course, we have plans that are not subject to the Employment Retirement Income Security act on. On the case side as well. Church plans, old grandfathered governmental 401ks. Remember those? So we have. Yeah, there's actually some states, if they had the plan I believe before 1987, still have. [37:42] Chad: That makes sense. [37:43] Michael Aweb: Then 401k plan that are grandfathered. [37:47] JD: Hashtag nerd alert. [37:50] Michael Aweb: But more like. More likely, we're talking about. The more common ones are church plans. Clearly, most church plans don't elect coverage under the Employee Retirement Income Security act. Or. I really need to do that all the time. No, the. Unless I want to drink Jenny Creamo anyway, I want to. So we have that issue on both sides. We have that issue on both sides of the house. Where we have it more in 403B plans is kind of a. It's kind of a dying breed where they used to have these plans where if there was limited employer involvement, as defined by the Department of Labor, you could have plans for only elective deferrals. And basically, if you were hands off, you could avoid the Employee Retirement Income Security Act. But we don't see a lot of those plans anymore. So really, the only. Really the only plans that aren't subject to that reg. We gotcha again, are not electing church plans. And of course, public plans, governmental plans, which includes the bane of anyone who talks about who works with 403B's existence, the dreaded wild west of K 12 public school district plans. Those are a completely different animal. But that's. Unfortunately, that's where jd. That's where jd. It makes a real difference because those plans could benefit greatly from the Employee Retirement Income Security Act. They would get a lot of protections. Those plans are really the wild west of port. The poor public school teachers. I just really feel for them. They're paying 2%, 3% in some cases on their. [39:41] JD: I surf with a teacher out just not far from here, and he was in the parking lot today doing his Zoom class in his car with his wetsuit half on. [39:54] Michael Aweb: He was doing a Zoom. [39:55] JD: And I'm like, what's going on? I knocked on his window. He's like, oh, I'm. I'm teaching class right now. Sorry. So I thought that was funny. [40:01] Chad: Anyways, that's kind of creepy. [40:03] Speaker C: Is that where you were when I had the meeting this morning that, you know, that was. [40:07] JD: I was dealing with a large client having an issue that was after that. [40:11] Chad: Yeah, it was a shark attack. [40:13] JD: I would never lie to you, Brandon. I wouldn't say I'm. [40:15] Mark: Hey, Webb. [40:16] JD: Surfing. [40:17] Mark: How often do you run into a non Employee Retirement income security Act 403 plan that is actually operating correctly? Because I don't think I have. [40:29] Michael Aweb: That is. That is not a church or a government. [40:33] Mark: Yeah, that is. That is a never.501C3. Never. [40:37] Michael Aweb: Never have not seen one yet. [40:40] Justin: Yeah. [40:40] Michael Aweb: Almost always have to come in and say, hey, you did something that subjects you to the Employment Retirement Income Security Act. Not really getting good at this. [40:49] Mark: That I think is something advisors should be prepared to discuss. We're going to try to tell them that they can have conversations with the nonprofit community. That is something you ought to be ready to. Because every single time I've come across a 501C3 trying to operate in that capacity, always out of compliance. [41:09] JD: My last kind of piece of advice here might be too, is I feel like the sales process is a little different. I think we've talked about this before on the show, but as a 401k person, I'm kind of used to walking in and talking to the decision maker and getting it sold. I feel like with 403B is, I would go, I would talk to, you know, human resources or someone, even the executive director, they would love me. I'd get it sold. And then I was like, okay, now we got to go to the board. You know, like, you got to do what you just did for me. You got to go now do this for 12 different individuals around a conference table. Webby, is that. Does that make sense? Sense to you? [41:52] Michael Aweb: That unfortunately is absolutely true. Now, sometimes, jd, to be fair, if you've talked to all the decision makers, really, you're just going to the board to get an approval of something that's going to happen. It's not. They're not going to say. Well, on second thought, a lot of times when recommendations from committees go to the board, they're approved. [42:18] JD: I mean, Julie's got a good point, too. Julie's like, but then you also have to wait for the next board meeting, which you know exactly. [42:26] Michael Aweb: It is that it is that kind of process. And smaller plans are more likely to have committees, I think, in for 3B than they are in K2. So it is a group of people you're going to have to impress. But I think it's well worth it, I can tell you. Obviously, Captrust has been around now for 35 years. They've had, you know, they've had 403B plans, I'm sure, on the books since they were founded. You know, my predecessor organization, Comma act was around since the 60s. We have literally, you know, now we're part of Captrust, literally clients on the books. Four, three clients from when Charlie Comemac started the company in 1965. So they can be very loyal. If you do a good job, I think in 403B are more likely to get rewarded because, remember, there's not. Not as much merger, acquisition activity, or takeover, except if you're talking about health care. So, you know, universities are not getting taken over a lot. So a lot of times, if you. If you can prove yourself, you're in for a relationship, for truly for the long haul. Whereas I think a lot of times in the 401k world, you're kind of on the mercy of, are the businesses going to remain viable if they're small, and if they get too good, are they going to be acquired? So you have that. More of that going on. [43:47] JD: That's a great point, Webby. And one, let's not forget the obvious. A lot of these nonprofits are really good people. They're doing great things, and so it feels good to have clients like that. But let me take the counter and be a total dick. They're very frugal. Like, so unlike your 401k clients, I feel like they're strapped, as they should be. They're strapped for cash. They're nonprofit. They're trying to get good things. So they really do, like, grind you on fees. That's been my experience, at least. But go ahead. [44:25] Michael Aweb: The good news there is that I think, yes, the margins, I'm not. I'm not going to lie, they're very, very thin. But you do get a lot of opportunity. And I think with that, you get. You get. You get the ability to kind of. You get the ability to kind of prove yourself and expand the relationship in the long haul. I can't tell you how many times, you know, captrust has had clients, they started out really, really small, and now they're giant clients. You know, probably 10 times the revenue what they had or more in the beginning, because you just kept adding as they. As. As the plans got more mature and you wanted to do, you know, different things with them, that you were still there for the long haul. So you could, you know, you could increase your business. Yes, they'll be frugal, but if you're doing, like, 70 different things for them and all of which create value, they're going to recognize that. And another point TO that is 403 is a little bit behind K, especially on the large side in terms of revenue sharing. So a lot of these investment providers have revenue sharing still baked into their plans. So a lot of these larger plans have lots of revenue sharing built up in their excess revenue sharing account. [45:43] JD: Which you're saying it's an opportunity. [45:46] Michael Aweb: Yeah. Which of course, they can credit back to participants. But participant gets like four bucks, you know, big deal sometimes, you know, because you're spreading them out among all the participants. So a lot of times, you know, you look at that and say, hey, you know, there's an opportunity here to work on financial wellness to improve our participant engagement, to improve. To improve the advice offering. And again, those are opportunities to expand the relationship. So I think it all goes back to, yes, the margins are, you know, yes, the margins are thinner. Because I think everybody, if you're in a committee, you're really on the. If you have a committee of smart people looking at these things, they're going to be on the ball and you're not going to be able to get anything past them, as you know, as well. [46:26] JD: And Julie said earlier that committee or that board, many of them have worked at Fidelity or her joke, I get that joke, which is like, you always have a few investment experts on the board that chime in. That's good. So it seems to me that the, the assessment here is don't be afraid of 403B. If you're a retirement plan advisor, you can handle it. You just got to learn a few things, and you should probably add it to your practice. If. If. Would you agree, Chad? [47:00] Mark: I mean, I would agree, but I would say we just got done talking about narrowed margins, and I'll talk to a community of advisors that don't maybe specialize in the retirement plan space. Those are the ones that tend to bump into these nonprofits, in my experience. And they come and say, okay, I'm gonna charge 25 basis points on this million $403b. But the assets are at valec in the past, and then they got moved to a different provider, and now this advisor's looking to move them again. And there's outside assets that have surrenders on them that they need to monitor. It's an entirely different world from a service perspective. And you need to be able to stand up and say, if I'm gonna do all this, I'm going to charge more than what I'm charging a traditional 401k plan. That's with one vendor, and it's very simple. So, yes, don't run away from it, but you need to be prepared to just put your foot in there and be paid for the work that you're going to do. [47:54] JD: Who's the dot in the chat bar that your brother? Okay. You just won't make any money. What a dick. Where'd you buy that Coors shirt? Amazon or something? What are you doing? All right, let's play a game. [48:10] Speaker C: It just showed up and I put it on. Today I got my delivery notice ran out. [48:15] JD: Brandon. When I see someone walking down the street with a quarter shirt on, the first thing I think is, that's a winner. That's a winner. All right, labor game. Let's do it, Brent. Let's do it. Play Mark's little intro because, you know, he doesn't start. [48:33] Michael Aweb: Was this in honor of me? [48:36] Chad: Kind of. Yeah, I guess you could say that. [48:38] Michael Aweb: My favorite. [48:39] Chad: Well, JD told me last night at 11:30pm hey, be ready for lamer game tomorrow. I was like, oh, I thought I had the week off. So here we go. [48:46] JD: Like, it's so fucking hard to come up with three questions. [48:49] Michael Aweb: It kind of is. [48:50] JD: I've asked so many questions, and I [48:52] Chad: only have so many ideas. I'm not as creative as some of you. [48:55] Mark: He was texting me during the show. [48:56] Justin: Hey, you got any ideas for this game? [48:58] Mark: Oh, I do. I wrote a few down that bothered me this week. Mark. [49:02] Chad: Perfect. Chad. I'm gonna have a guest question from Chad today. New rule on the show. [49:07] Michael Aweb: Like it? [49:07] JD: I like it. I like it. [49:09] Chad: I have three. Chad will have the fourth. Okay, first question. Having a cartoon profile picture on LinkedIn. Webby, you're always first. [49:22] JD: Webby, first. Catch me outside. How about that? Yeah, that's my favorite one. That's my favorite one. [49:27] Michael Aweb: Not an avatar, to be clear, but a cartoon. [49:30] JD: Actual cartoon picture, cartoon caricature, avatar. [49:34] Chad: I don't know. Not a real human face. How about that? [49:37] Michael Aweb: Well, I think there's a difference, though. I think avatars are fine if they're well crafted, but everything else, [49:44] JD: what's the difference? [49:45] Chad: First off, first off, you're a professional here. It's lame or game. You don't give me an explanation. I'm. [49:53] Michael Aweb: Because you guys all got mad when I got rid of my avatar. [49:55] Chad: We didn't get mad. We were actually happy about it. We say this with the absolute sincere love coming back to you, but I think you'll hear from my colleagues what their mindset is. [50:11] Mark: Justin. [50:14] Michael Aweb: Lame. [50:16] Mark: Chad. Lame. [50:18] Chad: Okay, J.D. you have some thoughts here. What's up? [50:20] Mark: No, I do not have thoughts. [50:22] JD: I just don't understand that. Like, what's an avatar? [50:25] Chad: Okay, fine. [50:26] JD: You're not getting in, like, a little device and your body's being ported into some alien thing and running around on some mystical planet. You're a fucking cartoon. You've changed your real face to, like, a cartoon. And, Webby, I'm going to say I am game, because I loved yours, and I honestly miss it right now. Like, I want to know if Cap Trust will allow you to bring it back. That's my real, true feelings. [50:53] Speaker C: I'm game on avid on cartoon person. [50:56] JD: And Avatar was a great movie, by the way. I know it doesn't matter, but. [51:02] Chad: All right, well, I'm just. [51:05] Michael Aweb: I'm just speechless because everybody was like, well, you got rid of the avatar. That was. That was terrible. And now we've got. Well, the Avatar is lame. [51:12] JD: Well, I would say you got rid of the cartoon, not the avatar, but. Okay, let's move on. [51:17] Chad: I had more of an explanation there. I'm just gonna. [51:20] Mark: I'm just gonna move on. [51:21] Chad: We recently went through a holiday of sorts. I know not everybody celebrates it, but. And there's particular candies that are sold during this time of year. I'm just curious. Webby. Lamer game. [51:33] Speaker C: Ramadan? [51:34] Chad: No, the one before that. [51:35] Michael Aweb: That's what I was thinking. [51:38] Chad: Sorry. Sorry I said we passed it. [51:40] Mark: We're not. [51:40] Chad: We're in Ramadan right now. Past Easter. Okay. Peeps Lamer game. [51:50] Michael Aweb: Well, like, it's. It's another qualifier game. If they're left. If they're left out to cure for a certain time, and. And lame if they're not. If they're fresh. [52:01] Chad: You like a little bit of chew on your marshmallow? [52:04] Michael Aweb: Absolutely. [52:05] Chad: I agree with you. Actually, I'm 100% agree with you. [52:07] JD: Cured peeps. [52:09] Mark: Disgusting. Yeah, you guys are gross. [52:11] Chad: I do the same thing with licorice. It's gross when it's fresh. Justin. [52:16] Michael Aweb: Oh, lame. [52:17] Justin: I hate peeps. [52:18] Michael Aweb: No good. [52:20] Mark: I don't need to inject sugar into my veins by eating peeps. So lame. [52:26] Chad: J.D. [52:28] JD: yeah, that's not part of my routine. I'm not doing that. [52:32] Speaker C: While we're on the topic of I've never tried one. I don't know. [52:35] JD: It doesn't surprise me. Doesn't surprise me. I'm not sure I have either, but they were at my house, like, a week or two ago. [52:42] Chad: Have you ever been a child? I don't understand. [52:45] JD: We grew up in Santa Cruz. [52:47] Speaker C: I've seen them in grocery stores, like in the bargain area, and they're like. [52:52] Chad: They're like 3 cents. Just buy one and try it. It's a marshmallow. [52:57] Michael Aweb: Buy one, leave it for three days at least. [53:00] Mark: Tom just wrote. He said we should have to eat peeps for acro sin. I'd be so sick eating that much sugar during the show. [53:07] JD: They look disgusting. [53:08] Speaker C: But I mean, quiz a death. [53:11] Michael Aweb: It is one letter away from peeps. You know what you got? [53:14] JD: It is a weird moment for me in life that Webby has a female. [53:21] Michael Aweb: I must really be drunk. [53:22] JD: As a process to, like, cure his peeps and get them ready. I'll never forget that. Sorry, Mark. It's your show. [53:30] Chad: Go perfectly fine. So along the same lines, I'm just going to talk. Say this out loud as we're sitting here. Cadbury Eggs, They. I feel like they. They're the same thing for most people, but anyways, so Webby. Okay, now. Now you know what I'm talking about. [53:46] Speaker C: I love Cadbury eggs. [53:49] Mark: Couldn't stay out of that one. [53:50] Chad: Okay, we're gonna move on then. Webby, on your. On your Cap Trust profile, you mentioned your ideal lunch, table included. We're Al Yankovic, which I pretty much. When I heard that, I was like, that makes sense. Mr. Rogers, which I get. And Howard Stern, which okay, totally get. Now, let's just say this is a two part question. This isn't a lamer game. This is a question I have for you. One, if you have an open seat at that table, which retireholic do you invite? Okay, that can include Brandon, by the way. And also, what are you serving for lunch that day? So answer the first question first and then move on. Okay. [54:29] Michael Aweb: I think it would have to be Justin because we. Everybody else is going to talk so much that we really need a good listener. I think Justin would say all, like, he wouldn't talk a lot, but when he'd say something, the other three would go, wow, that's astute. You know, I'm sure. I'm sure some of them wouldn't use the word astute, but. Yeah, what would I serve? [54:50] Chad: Yeah, it's your choice. Let me guess. [54:54] Michael Aweb: Three of my favorites. Whatever the heck they want me to serve them. [54:57] JD: You're gonna serve. [54:59] Chad: You're gonna serve peeps. [55:01] JD: Rhonda. Rhonda, you just got my vote for chat bar champion. [55:06] Chad: All right, Chad. Done, everybody. Special guest appearance by Chad today on Lamer Game. Chad, the floor is yours. [55:14] Mark: Thank you, Mark. I appreciate this opportunity to step in and ask a lamer Game question. It is something that drives me somewhat. When someone calls you random for a quick question that leads to without banter. An hour long conversation. When someone calls you with a quick question but is expecting an hour of time. Lame. Or game. [55:40] Chad: You have to ask the first person. [55:42] Mark: Webb always knows how to do. [55:45] Michael Aweb: Absolutely game. The customer's always right. [55:48] Mark: I didn't say it was a customer, though. Webby. [55:50] Michael Aweb: Oh, I'm still game. [55:52] Justin: You didn't say it was. [55:53] Michael Aweb: I could. I could find. [55:54] Chad: Webby's seriously the nicest. [55:56] JD: So nice. [55:56] Chad: On the face of the earth. [55:57] Mark: Webby's gonna tell, like, you know, his family. Sorry, I can't come to the reunion because someone called me. [56:04] Chad: So, Chad, Chad, Can I lump that into the situation that happens? Or like, hey, I got a quick question for you. And then you answer it and they're like, oh, hey, by the way, the client's on the other line. Let me just merge the call. And now your. Next thing you know, you're on a conference call with like four people and you're like, what am I doing? [56:19] Mark: I'm okay with that. At least it's productive sometimes. True. So, Mark, you're lame then, is what I'm hearing from you today, Ken. [56:29] Chad: Well, [56:31] Mark: yeah, Justin. Lame. [56:35] JD: Jd, I feel like I'm that guy sometimes. I feel like. I feel like. I feel like Justin will call me and be like, hey, I need to know this answer to this question. And then 45 minutes later, I'm describing some situation from 10 years ago that I think he should be educated on. [56:55] Mark: That's different though, because he's calling you. I get this. My days, I imagine, as most of us are fairly booked, and I get that call and I want to answer it because I see the person calling, I'm like, hey, I've got five minutes. Well, I need an hour. Like, then we need to schedule an hour. Dude, you can't call me and expect an hour. [57:14] JD: Chad, we're not all as in demand as you are. [57:17] Mark: That's not the point, jd. [57:18] JD: I mean, I had to lie. [57:20] Mark: I had to calendars. [57:21] JD: I had to lie to Brandon today. I was supposed to be on a 10am and I was surfing and I told him I couldn't make it. Sucks. Hey, we got to do cbc because I know Chad and Jesse, have a heart out. Oh, look, okay, is this fair? Instead of just sipping. Tom, I didn't know what. [57:43] Chad: Jd, I seriously thought earlier your Miller High life was your bottle of Maker's Mark, and I freaked out. [57:50] JD: Oh, God, Tom, look what you made Me do. God damn it. All right, CBC marks again. Well, I'm gonna do this then. That's two. Right, who's your chap? Our champion vote. [58:05] Chad: I am. I'm having a tough horse race between David K. And Julie Casey. [58:11] JD: Same here. [58:12] Justin: You go one, I'll go the other. [58:15] Chad: Then I will go Julie Casey. But you have to tell me you're [58:17] JD: doing David K. Julie did do a good job today. [58:21] Mark: Julie was my. [58:22] JD: Justin. Justin. David. Okay, David and Julie are in. Webby. [58:31] Michael Aweb: All my favorites were already mentioned, but I. I think there was a couple comments by Sherry and a couple of comments by Rhonda that just got me off. [58:41] JD: Don't steal Rhonda. Don't steal Rhonda. [58:44] Chad: Do it, Webby. [58:45] JD: That's mine. That's mine. [58:47] Michael Aweb: I'll take Sherry then. [58:50] JD: I'm going Rhonda with the cured peeps. That's all it was for me. Just one comment. See, everyone, One comment can get into the semifinals. In the semifinals. All right, Brandon, we always rely on you to listen to everyone we just nominated. Even though you're drunk. There's caught all that. [59:09] Mark: There's a lot of new names in there tonight too. I just went through the 10 dealers. There's a lot of new names. [59:14] JD: There you go, peeps. Pun was not intended. There you go, peeps. Start voting. [59:26] Mark: I voted for Julie. She was. She was my. She was my original. [59:30] JD: Greg's getting defensive of the retireholics chat bar. He's like, who are these people? Why are they coming in on our thing, man? What? Is there any people in here? [59:37] Michael Aweb: What's the deal, Greg? The idea is actually the audience. I know it's not something that Julie. [59:44] JD: Julie crushed it. Julie and she. That's a well deserved win. That was solid. Julie was solid. Not only in fun but also in value. So congrats, Julie. Congrats. That's the show, guys. Webby, thanks for tuning in. Justin. Mark. I know. Or Justin. Chad. And you got a heart out. So you guys feel free to take off and go do your responsibilities. But market are going to stick around. I'm going to get fucking hammered in that. I want to watch out. [1:00:12] Mark: I want to mention one thing to [1:00:14] Chad: get you guys going after. [1:00:17] JD: Sorry. [1:00:18] Michael Aweb: That's just great. [1:00:19] Mark: I said I had one thing I'm curious about that I wanted to chat about earlier with the exemptions. Everybody's skipping on my screen right now. Can you hear me right now? [1:00:28] Justin: Yeah. [1:00:29] Mark: Okay. So when I'm looking at the fiduciary rule and I see the term exemption, my immediate response is, yes, people should be fiduciaries, and if they do this, they're getting an exemption from being a fiduciary. But the way it's actually written in the way it operates is if you're following these rules, you're leveraging the exemption, but you're still a fiduciary in this standpoint. [1:00:53] JD: Right? [1:00:54] Mark: Yeah, I think it's a. Don't like the word exemption in that [1:00:57] Michael Aweb: it's a prohibited transaction exemption. So it's just an exemption from that. [1:01:00] Mark: It's an exemption from the prohibited transaction, which is why they're using the term exemption. That makes more sense. I had not seen that, and it drives me nuts every time I'm reading pieces. Like, if you didn't know the 401k space, you would read that and think it's something entirely different. [1:01:15] Michael Aweb: Huh? [1:01:16] Mark: Thanks, Webby. You're smart. [1:01:18] JD: All right, Chad. [1:01:19] Michael Aweb: Thank you, Chad. Glad I could be of assistance to you. [1:01:23] JD: Now it's 5:33 on the west Coast. [1:01:27] Mark: Can I go coach my son's baseball game? [1:01:29] JD: Have fun, buddy. See ya. Thanks, Justin. Go hockey it up. Go hockey it up, bro. [1:01:37] Michael Aweb: Who won? Ackerson, J.D. [1:01:38] Chad: oh, you. [1:01:39] JD: You must by far. What? [1:01:41] Michael Aweb: No, I was keeping up for a while, but he just had. [1:01:45] JD: It's always me. Brandon, do we have that song prepped or. Yes.