Simple vs. Complex Plan Design: Industry Disruption Debate

[0:00] JD: Here I go. [0:01] Chad: I don't know how else to stir it, so I have to use a pen. [0:05] JD: That's gross. [0:06] Chad: I know, right? I don't know where this pen's been. [0:09] JD: Guarantee you it's been in your child's mouth. Maybe other places. [0:13] Chad: Weird. That's a weird. [0:15] JD: Here we go. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Webinar. My name is James Douglas Carlson III, Esquire, and I'm joined by Justin McNeil, Chadwick Johansen, our producer, Brandon, and everybody's favorite retireholic robe guy. I surfed for four hours this afternoon. The waves were pumping, my shoulders are spazzing, and my brain wants to go to sleep. So I'm pretty much just going to phone this one in today. So if anyone complains, so be it. [1:33] Chad: You must not be a very good surfer then, if that's the case. [1:36] Justin: Well, I. [1:37] JD: At age 50, I usually only make it about 60 to 90 minutes. But the waves were so good, I could not bring myself to paddle in. And now I'm paying the price. Let's see. Today's episode has been brought to you by Fiduciary Works and Josh Itza's Fiduciary rx. [1:59] Chad: Is he our. Is he our spot? Is this like a little. [2:01] Justin: Are we getting paid? [2:03] JD: This is legit. So if you're an advisor out there, and if you're a good advisor, if you're a shitty advisor, if you're somewhere in between, you should go to fiduciaryworks.com and you should check out Fiduciary Rx and you can get a demo from Mr. Idzo himself, the Gary V of 401K. [2:23] Chad: Dude, that logo is sick. [2:25] Justin: I thought that was Jake. [2:26] Justin: Chad, you've seen this thing, right? [2:29] JD: Fiduciary. [2:31] JD: I've shown it. I've shown it. Well, Justin couldn't tune in, but I've shown it to Mark. It gets. It's good. It's legit. I've used it so far with one advisor showing him what he can do to leverage the tools for his book of business. Very cool. I think Josh hit it. Okay. [2:47] Justin: Do you agree or disagree? [2:49] Chad: I wasn't paying attention when he showed [2:51] Justin: me, so I don't know what he's talking about. [2:52] JD: You were sitting at the same table as me, so I know you did. [2:55] JD: So if you're out there, we highly recommend you check it out. If you put in the code robe guy, you'll get. [3:04] Chad: That's a bad idea. [3:06] JD: You'll get zero percent off. Okay, Justin, this is the time. This is the time. The show. [3:13] Justin: When you are going to intro our [3:15] JD: guests and everybody out there, you're going to vote Justin 0 to 10. And how he does. Do you like the 401k? Because if you like the 401k, you are at the right spot. It's retireholics. Let's go, Justin. [3:30] JD: Today we appear to have yet another [3:32] Justin: badass female of a guest. You name it, this chick has probably done it. She's launched and sold a fintech company, developed a SaaS product for TPAs. I think that's how you say it. [3:42] Chad: What does that mean? [3:45] Justin: Software as a product. That's what that means. Launched a marketing consultancy consultancy. Rebranded three companies. Overhauled a 40 year old record keeping TPA firm to better utilize her human capital. She spent eight years aggregating tech to compress processes. She sat on the regional board of Elevate Global Women's Network where she also served as a mentor and is also an international speaker. She is a single mom to a mini little badass as well. She has been rich, she has been broke. She has broken over 21 bones and is a national qualifying bodybuilder world. Our word has it her and Phil Troyer are having a little lifting competition at ASPA this year. Ladies and gentlemen, it is the CEO of Leverage Retirement. Faith, I am sorry, I don't know how to pronounce your last name. [4:29] Faith Iope: Iope. Thank you. [4:31] JD: Iope. [4:32] Faith Iope: How easy did I take stocking? [4:36] Justin: No, no, no. [4:37] JD: This is not a 10. Everybody. [4:40] Justin: You shut your mouth. [4:41] Justin: I think full disclosure. I think full disclosure. Look at the nines coming in. You basically read word for word her fucking LinkedIn bio. Like, I mean that's literally word for [4:51] JD: word what it says. [4:52] Justin: Sometimes you got to do it. All right, sorry. [4:55] Justin: I'm giving you a plan. I'm giving you a 2. [4:59] JD: Lack of. It's pretty sleazy. [5:00] Chad: Well, you're a dick. [5:01] JD: Hey Face, how much. [5:03] Justin: How much do you bench? [5:05] Faith Iope: Well, I mean, I'm only doing 185 right now, so like. [5:09] Justin: No, no. Like what would you max that? That's your reps, right? You're doing like 20 of those. That's like a. That's a solid mark. [5:15] Faith Iope: Yeah, it's okay. I. I'll. I'll build back. I just started retraining. So. [5:20] JD: Wait, just. [5:21] Chad: You said a solid mark. Like that's how much I weigh or that's how much I can lift because I can't even. [5:27] JD: I. [5:27] JD: You can't. [5:27] Chad: I can't even lift a sack of potatoes, dude. Come on. I. I'm A wimp. [5:32] JD: I did take Mark to the company, Jim, when we were back over at 18:10 and it was interesting. [5:39] Chad: I'm the weakest person on the face of the earth. [5:41] JD: Okay, [5:43] JD: we're gonna play some games today, Faith. Chat Bar Champion. [5:48] Chad: JD you really sound like you just [5:53] Justin: talk about half assing it, man. [5:55] JD: Chat Bar Champion is a game we like to play. Keep your eye on the Chat bar because you're gonna nominate someone into the finals. Whatever you like, whatever floats your boat, you know, whether they're funny or smart or what have you. And then you guys out there in the audience, you're gonna vote for the winner. Today we're also gonna play Acro Sin Faith. So if you say any initialism or acronym, you must drink from your nasty drink. I'll be sipping off the goose. JD looks asleep, Chad. Thanks for that. Those are the games we're gonna play. We're gonna play winners and losers today. And I got a little something to say about that. And don't forget, if you're an advisor, go to fiduciaryworks.com and check out Fiduciary Rx. [6:43] Chad: Who created that again, Gary? [6:46] Justin: The J to the O to the [6:48] JD: S to the H. Let's go to Headlines. [6:50] Justin: Headlines, Brandon, let's do some headlines. [7:00] JD: Pension Mark has been acquired by a company I never heard of before. Yeah, World Insurance. [7:12] Chad: That doesn't even sound real. [7:16] JD: It's a fake company, but apparently they've got enough cashola that they have bought Pension Mark, which is a big deal. They've bought all the advisor shops, everything they got going on there. And Troy Hammond, you know, you know, Troy, the CEO of Penchmark will still be there. As you read through this article, you'll find out too. It's. Some of it's kind of structured like the old one digital resources gig where it looks like a lot of these advisors are taking World Insurance. [7:47] Justin: Hopefully that's a real company, Mark stock. So I don't know, I, I don't [7:54] JD: know what to think about this except for. And hopefully I have no information to back this up. But it's a play on cash, right? People are getting, you know, these valuations are going down, so people are getting some cash in their pockets and apparently World Insurance is a really fast growing big, you know, benefit shop and this will help them get into 401k. So here we go again. Hashtag convergence. [8:20] JD: Any idea where the money came from for the purchase or how much it was like, [8:26] JD: why is Mark freaking out? [8:28] Chad: The raiders just traded for Devonte. Anyway, look at this sports. [8:32] Justin: Sorry. [8:33] JD: Holy what? [8:36] Faith Iope: The team. The team. [8:37] JD: Go team. [8:38] Justin: Go sports Mark. [8:40] JD: Have a good night, guys. Later. [8:42] Justin: Like a kid on Christmas morning. [8:44] JD: Let's see. In further headlines, Costco has reached a settlement in their lawsuit. And this comes from the boys at national association of Plan Advisors. Boys and girls over there. 5.1 million. And what I, what I saw in here that caught my attention again is there is some language from the attorney claiming that they could have chosen index funds as opposed to actively managed funds. I keep saying this. People keep calling me crazy, saying it's not a thing, but it's a thing. Read this article. [9:21] Chad: That's the wording was they could have. Are we using could have as like a legal term now? [9:29] JD: Sure, I think so. I think. [9:30] Chad: Wow. [9:31] JD: Okay, you can read it. I'm too tired to go find it, but it's in there somewhere. [9:36] Chad: I mean, now can I be honest if we're actually gonna talk about this? 5.1 seems pretty low. Like that's not a big number for Costco. [9:43] Justin: You know what I mean? [9:44] JD: It's a $50 billion plan. [9:46] Chad: It's packages of diapers. [9:49] Justin: Yeah. [9:49] JD: It's kind of a funny article because it even says in there that they're going to lower the per head fee for like a period of time until they reach a certain monetary amount of that 5.1 million. And then it made me think like and, and then you stop. Does it go back to the high prices? It's really weirdly worded. But anyways, it's a settlement. It's settled. And yes, the attorney gets a big chunk of that. I think it was like 900k or it's in the article. Check it out. Is what the attorney is going to get. Let's move on. Brad Aarons is on John Sullivan's podcast 401K Specialist Mag podcast and he is up to his tinfoil hat stuff. He is talking mad about the industry and how advisors need to watch out for record keepers trying to get in there and. And steal the business. [10:40] Justin: He I'm going to claim, Mark, that [10:42] JD: Brad Aarons is now and I'm a huge fan of Brad, but is the he's the phrase guy for monetize the participant. Like he, you know, he's got all his numbers. [10:53] Justin: How much money you should make from [10:54] JD: each each service that you offer them. You've probably seen that research he's done. He talks a lot about it on this show. So it's worth a listen. It's like 16, 20 minutes or something. [11:05] Chad: Is JD he mentioned long For John Sullivan's podcast. [11:09] JD: It is a little bit. [11:10] JD: It's Brad. It was good. I didn't get. I didn't get to finish it today, but I started listening to it this morning while I was doing some things. And his comment of advisors, if you're not willing to do it, don't be pissed when the record keepers start doing it. Love that thought. Like, we need to silo. Everybody needs to decide what you want to do as a service model. And don't get mad if a partner does it, whether it be on your behalf or at the benefit of what they're trying to build. I agree. [11:36] JD: I agree. And I think he's a good guy to keep going to and also keep an eye on intellisense and how they're kind of tackling it. I think they've recently come out with their kind of financial plan via an app type of thing. So anyways, they're a good benchmark to look at. I thought this one was interesting and I'd love to get some of your guys feedback on tips. [11:58] Chad: I'd like to hear from Faith more than anything. [12:00] JD: Okay, let's see what Faith thinks about this. There's a participant right here in Huntington Beach, California, in Southern California, suing Hyatt. I've stayed at this very hotel before. It's right by the pier there. And is suing his employer because a large portion of his pay is tips, gratuities. And Hyatt forces him, per this article, to cash out those tips. Like to get paid in cash. [12:30] Chad: Credit card tips, right? [12:31] JD: Yeah. So they're not being run through his payroll, and therefore he's not defer from that any. We'll start with Faith, if she's had any experience in this. But I thought maybe this is a good learning lesson for people out there because I've ran into this with restaurants and stuff before. I'm sure Chad has. How do you think about that? Does this guy have a. Have a case? Like, he's not able to defer from these tips and they make up a big chunk of his pay. Like, should the employer be doing something different here? [13:00] Faith Iope: I think it's really fascinating. First of all, I think it's amazing that he even knew that he had a case here. Like, who in his circle helped him identify that? That's incredible. I mean, I think about if I had somebody, a friend that was in the restaurant business, was a waitress or waiter, and they wanted to defer more, I think they would just complain about it. I can't imagine do anything about It. So I think that's really fascinating. I have a hard time diving into this situation and not knowing what other conversations were they having along the way. Is this something that they had been discussing and he had been complaining about, or did he just suddenly realize I could have and they didn't give me the chance? [13:46] JD: And your first thought too is I was at least like, well, can't you just make it up in your regular pay? Like, just, let's do a massive deferral from your regular pay. But I think you run into this scenario where, like, if you deal with, like, bartenders and stuff, like, they're making like 80% of their money is coming from. From their tips. And so it puts them at a disadvantage. [14:09] Faith Iope: Yeah, that's a good point. [14:10] JD: And it's about business practices, JD because they can report those tips. So early on in my career, I'd run into this where the business owner was. Was honest with me. Our folks aren't always reporting their tips. They're getting cash tips. They're pocketing a portion of them. At the end of the night, they're saying they got $75 in tips, when in all likelihood they got $200 in tips. And. And she's trying to police it at that point. And I said, look, if it needs to be eligible compensation, this is earned compensation. It needs to be shown. But if they are reporting everything, they can submit a portion of their tips to the company and have it then cut as a W2 in their. In their actual payroll rather than taking that cash home, and then they can defer from it at that point. So it's a business operations thing on the back end. And whether or not they had that conversation or gave this person that opportunity, I have no idea. But it can't be handled accurately. [15:06] Chad: Can I play the opposite of the positive card we're looking at right now? You would just refer to it in this Costco lawsuit of they could have had index funds. He or she. Sorry, didn't read the article. Could have deferred this. Would they have deferred it? Who knows? But some people want to just sue for the, for the. For the ability to sue. Right? [15:35] JD: Sure. [15:35] Chad: And so I'm not trying to say this person has mal. Intent on their mind just. [15:41] Justin: Just throwing it out there. [15:42] JD: This person doesn't have the liability. [15:47] Chad: What, John? [15:48] JD: They don't have the legal liability like a fiduciary does, like the business itself does. And so I get that thought. But same with lost earnings calculations. When someone's not given the opportunity to defer we don't know if they would have deferred or not. But if they weren't given the opportunity, the company's forking over some money to make it. Right. [16:06] JD: It's a good one for advisors to think about though, because you do run into it in different businesses. And I'm with Chad. What I don't like to hear, my understanding of Hyatt, they're a large corporation, is they are in a sense running it through payroll. They're not letting the employer claiming it, they're claiming it. So it's not like it's cash that's not being reported. But you're right, Chad, a lot of restaurants you run into that where it's not even. [16:29] JD: What do you think happens? Faith. I'll pose the question to Faith because we want to hear more from Faith. [16:35] Justin: Yes. [16:35] JD: What do you think happens if Hyatt comes out and forces everybody that is in this tip system to take 50% of everything they get in tips and leave it with the Hyatt so that they can then show it on payroll? And I think you get a lot of tick off people. [16:51] Justin: Yeah. [16:52] Faith Iope: Oh yeah. People want to be in control. Oh yeah. They, people already don't like change. I mean, think we can't even change the time for retireholics. They're not going to want to take their tips. [17:05] JD: No, you're right. Yeah, they would, they would leave and go to somewhere else where they could come home with a cash. So, yeah, it's a double edged sword. But I thought it was an interesting one. That's also at a National association of Plan Advisors site. Okay. One other one. There's a woman who started a new company. Her name's Jean Smart. I don't know her, but she started a company called Penelope and it's another play at the small plan market, you know, going after these 60 million participants that don't have access to a 401k plan. She's got 2.1 million in funds that are invested to build this thing out. And she calls it a subscription model. She talks about it being online. You can go to Penelope Co, I think is the website very cool, by the way, I don't want to rip on this woman because I, she's an entrepreneur. She's building something out. I think it's cool. But I do have some things I want to talk about with you guys about this. So it's, there's no advisor, right. Involved. She's going to use Vanguard funds, like 10 of them. So it's, it's Cookie cutter. She self, you know, she says it's cookie cutter. That's what she's trying to do is create something simple and easy that you'd sign up and, and do very quickly. It's $125 per month as a base, and then $8 per participant per month. So what is that? What's $8 per month per participant and $125, basically, if you got a 10 person plan, I did the math, it's just shy of $2,500 a year. So it's cheap, right? It's, it's affordable. Plus, plus some Vanguard funds. My question for y' all is, and again, not trying to rip on this, this woman, but you've all heard me get pissed at guideline and Human interest and all these companies. Um, here we go again. Here's another one. Am I losing it? Like, am I. Should I be more open minded? Mark says yes. Should I be more open minded? I'll put this one to faith first. Is it okay to have small plan solutions that go straight to the consumer and cut out the advisor and have no. I can't even believe I'm saying this out loud, but have no advisor role? Like, is that okay? Can this work? Is this good for the industry? [19:28] Faith Iope: Okay, I have so much to unpack here, so you may not want to hear all of it, but yes, we do. [19:33] JD: I do. [19:34] Faith Iope: I think that it can be fine. Advisors really run the show though. I mean, we really need the advisor role. So that's a little bit of a bummer. But I mean, it is, it is a solution that's out there. So it's kind of nice to have something. I do always love the change in semantics. Like this subscription model I love playing around with. How can. [19:58] JD: What does that mean, by the way? I didn't. I was confused by that. My clients pay me a certain amount per month. Do I call that a subscription model? I don't understand. [20:09] Faith Iope: So really. Okay, so logistically you can set it up so that it is a recurring charge, like to a credit card or charge to an account. So you can make it really like a legitimate subscription, but you really could have it just on a regular, you know, even invoice. And it is a subscription now it gets weird. It gets weird because you can't just turn off a subscription. Like a 401, you know, 401k can't be something you just turn off, like Netflix. So you have to have a lot of, you know, if thens there conditionals. [20:42] Justin: Faith, can you move your, your Mic a little bit more directionally. [20:45] Faith Iope: I need to basically make out with this mic. I had to turn our levels down. [20:50] JD: Thank you. Thanks J. That's good. Yeah, we need to closer to it. [20:55] Justin: I think that's silly by the way. Here we go again. It's the smoke and mirrors of marketing. Great subscription. [21:01] Faith Iope: Oh no, don't call it smoke and mirrors. [21:03] Justin: It is, it is. [21:04] Faith Iope: It's a form of communication though. Because you think about the way that our industry talks. Our industry is just trying to fire hose like we are the experts. We know what you need to know and we're fire hosing everybody with all this information. But if they're not really receiving it, then what's the point of delivering the message? So I think that the smoke and mirrors of marketing is just a change in communication. [21:29] Justin: Yeah, fair enough. That's a more mature way of representing. [21:33] JD: You know what? I need to stop ripping on these change in communications and I need to start doing the same damn thing because it seems to resonate with people. Chad, you have some thoughts here? [21:42] JD: You don't, you don't need to do it. If your offering is strong enough and bringing in enough presence that you don't need to use different terminology just to get business, which is what many of these folks are doing. I was faith when you said it's another solution. I feel like a solution is an answer to a problem. I don't feel like we have a problem right now. I don't feel like these entities that are coming out with these offerings are really a solution. It is just another offering. It is something that is out there. But we're not, we're not fixing anything. And when you look at what they're pitching, they're pitching that you should pay less. That's what they're pitching. They're not really pitching anything better. They're saying you're paying too much, so pay less. Get funds that you can get in these other providers and pay less. That's what they're really trying to sell. [22:26] Faith Iope: Yeah. And that is upsetting. But also I think or, and also I think that it's a chance for us to look, you know, is there a way for us to turn everything on its head and see should we be doing something differently? I don't really like the idea of thinking that what we do in providing 401ks should be cheaper. So I do think that it is sending a little bit of a wrong message. But I mean, if our mission as an industry is coverage for all, then they're kind of helping with that, yeah, [22:58] JD: you could look at it as a positive. I don't really believe what I'm about to say, but, but I'll say it anyways is if the problem. Well, I do believe the problem of those 60 million Americans that don't have retirement plans is cost. I've said this before. I do believe that the 10 person auto body shop on the corner doesn't have a 401k plan because they don't want to stroke the check for $2,500. I think that's the reason why. [23:24] Faith Iope: Yeah, but I think that that's the communication piece. So I think that our industry is in the cycle of showing apples to apples on something and then the, the audience thinks that the only thing that they have to compare now is price because it's the only thing that they really can wrap their minds around. So I think it's just, you know, [23:46] JD: but you're already jumping to the comparative side. My point is that that company does not have a plan. And they don't have a plan because they don't think they can afford one. You know, they don't think they're big enough. They don't, they don't have the people. Yeah, go ahead. [24:00] JD: It's coming in the chat bar. So I have to answer. There's three people that wrote it. That, that there is. This is a solution because there's a problem. And everybody is referring to the problem as. And that's your, that's your stance. And when JD just said that, I said I disagree because I don't think cost is the issue. I've been able to sell a startup 401k plan with no billables for 10 straight years. Those, the companies that choose not to offer one. It's not because they think there's a billable cost more often than not. It's because they think we don't need one. There's no benefit to us in having one. And it is an operational issue for us with payroll and, and doing all this work to bring people into the plan and then people leave and how do I monitor that? And it's work that they don't want to take on. So I disagree that the issue is cost and the solution is to lower what we're charging. [24:51] JD: Well, people in the chap are also saying this and we know, we get this. It is the administrative burden. And it's basically like a pooled employer plan sales bulletin. Right? We get it. It's the cost, it's the administrative burden, you know, of having these plans. But the reason why I'm focusing on the cost is because it seems like with this Penelope program and you read the articles in Forbes and whatever that, that's what they're saying is, oh, finally someone's come to the market with something that the little guy can afford and they can have a 401k plan just like the big guy. It's driving me nuts. I wanted to get back to that point is I reached out to Chad today and I asked him, hey, tell me what's like the cheapest record keeper [25:34] Justin: out there, there, and you'd come back [25:36] JD: to me and you had said, you know, that you gave me. It's, it's funny, a lot of the pricing's changing, but you can get a record keeper to do a startup plan with 10 people with 50k a flow for no billable, like they're out there so they'll have an asset based fee, but guess what, you don't have any assets. So that's a win win for you as a plan in my 50k a [25:58] JD: year, like what some of the ones that we were talking about is 1.4%. [26:03] Justin: 1.4% of 50K is $700. [26:09] JD: You know, that's a, that's a bargain, you know, in that first year. [26:12] Justin: So my, my point is that we [26:14] JD: could use that record keeper. We sell something called Kickstart, which puts you in a simple design that's a thousand bucks. So now you're a thousand bucks in. That's all you gotta write check for you're with Voya. And now we just come to this, this bridge of an advisor, like will an advisor do it for 50bps when they do it unfortunately out there these days. Right. [26:34] JD: And Pakash makes a good point too that companies could have offered payroll deduction IRAs at no cost. They're still not doing that. So the coverage gap is not just about 401ks. There's been plenty of solutions out there that cost nothing that they could have been offering this whole time. [26:51] Justin: I want to ask you one more time though. [26:55] JD: Can do we accept these without an advisor? And then do we convince ourselves that, well, at least there'll be new plans, they'll grow and then maybe they'll want an advisor when they get to 500k to 1 million. [27:09] Justin: I want to know what, what you [27:10] JD: all think about that here and I also want to know what you think advisors think about that statement. First to you, Faith, like is this, is this an okay thing? [27:20] Faith Iope: Well, what do you think is the real problem with not having an Advisor. And she just has these. This list of funds that she selected. Whoever selected it, what's the problem? [27:32] JD: My problem would be lack of direction, lack of consulting, lack of helping them understand their fiduciary responsibility. You know, just lack of, like actually running a quality plan, I guess. So that's the question. Then I'll go to Mark. Is it better to have a shitty plan than no plan at all? [27:53] Faith Iope: Is it shitty only if you don't have an advisor? [27:57] JD: I think the, the likelihood of shittiness is higher. [28:03] JD: That's a hard term. [28:04] Chad: I mean, I feel like those are the same thing. Having a shitty plan or not having any at all, because I don't know, I wouldn't utilize a shitty plan, I guess, if I knew it was shitty. But what's the spectrum of shitty? Who knows, right? You're saying because it's super expensive, like, I don't know, I mean, but you. [28:23] Faith Iope: It's still a platform. It still has the same rules. This, you can do pre tax. I mean, I don't know if she gets really, you know, how intricate she gets. [28:32] JD: Assume Roth or. Yeah, whatever. [28:34] Faith Iope: Okay, so I mean, if it has those, then what's the problem? Maybe a participant will be looking for some other investments that aren't available. That could be an issue. But what if they're not? I mean, most people don't even know what to invest in. [28:48] Chad: I'll tell you what the problem is. We're 30 minutes in, we're on headlines still. And, and also, nobody has said an acronym. Okay, just gonna throw that out there. [28:58] Justin: That's. That's pretty shitty. [29:00] JD: Those are good things, Mark. Headlines are made for conversations. You know, we let them. [29:05] Chad: They're very responsible show, and I'm not enjoying it whatsoever. [29:09] Justin: Okay, let's. Let's take Mark's lead and let's spin [29:13] JD: the wheel of ice. [29:18] JD: Like that conversation, though, there was so much to go on there. [29:26] Chad: Hey, Chat. I didn't say we had to stop talking about that, but I was just pointing out a couple of things. [29:30] JD: You just wanted a drink. Oh, nice. [29:35] Chad: All right. [29:36] Justin: Brandon's getting after it. Okay. [29:40] JD: Well done. Well, Chad, this is somewhat similar, I think. I called you today and I. As I mentioned earlier, I was asking about record keeping, pricing, because I don't really keep tabs on that stuff these days. [29:54] Justin: And you called me and we chatted [29:56] JD: about this for a while and you told me something I'd like you to share with the audience, which is it sounds like pricing is changing in the micro market. So you can explain this a Little more what you're seeing? [30:08] JD: Yeah, well pricing has always been in flux, right. Depending on the time of year they throw out year end specials, they drive down costs. But what we're seeing right now is a restructuring of cost. Almost every provider has come out with a new structure for startups that has billable cost involved. And that was not the case in the past. Before you could get 5, 6, 7 quotes from different providers that had no billable expense for startup. Now almost all of them have something in there. And my thought originally was number one, they've realized we need to be profitable in a smaller plan space. But I think more so what they're doing is they're trying to leverage the tax credits the businesses can get and they're coming with every proposal. For example like principal, every proposal principal sending out, they're sending out a leverage your tax credit piece along with it and it's a whole write up on why it's okay to have billable because you can get a tax credit for it. And so yeah, I'm seeing this flip flop of a lot of these small market providers that were willing to go all asset based, starting to push more billable fee. And the only thing I can come up with is they realize they need to be profitable in the micro space. They are eliminating some of the proprietary requirements which is another reason why I think they're willing to go billable because they're not forcing their own funds in now as much we'll say and because of the tax credits. But it's been a flip in the last six months. [31:36] Justin: That's pretty fucked. I mean if you, they're basically saying hey, the government's giving you the tax credits but we're going to take them from you. Well, every one of those costs have gone up. [31:44] JD: I mean you only get them, you only get them if you get a [31:47] Justin: bill, if you pay. [31:48] JD: Yeah, I was going to ask you [31:50] Justin: guys, I was going to ask you guys because I don't know, you saw [31:53] Justin: the TPA or [31:57] Justin: when they, Sorry, they [31:59] JD: add a billable beyond having less proprietary requirements like Chad mentioned. [32:05] Justin: But are you seeing like the asset [32:07] JD: based fee go down or. [32:10] Justin: No, that's what Chad's saying is no. [32:12] JD: Prices are getting more expensive in the small market. [32:15] Justin: Yes. [32:15] JD: So do you think that they looked back over the last 10 years and realized I, I used to think this all the time. Like when a, when a vendor record [32:24] Justin: keeper would, would run out a, would [32:27] JD: roll out a startup plan, you know, 15 people, 50k a flow and they would create back in the day back when I used to do this, they would create enrollment books, you know, like real hard copy enrollment books. They'd send down a, a person in a suit and tie to do administration. Then they set you up on this glorious record keeping system where you got a service rep. And I'm thinking to myself, like, to Chad's point, they only had basis points. They didn't charge a hard dollar and the plan didn't have any assets. I'm like, they must be losing their shirt on these, these small plans. And so are they looking back now and going, damn it, we're losing money. Like, we need to change our model. [33:08] JD: That was for. I thought you teed that up for Faith. That's what Sherry was saying she wanted to hear. Faith. [33:13] JD: Let me ask you, Faith, we should know a little bit more. So at Leverage, where you're the chief executive officer, are you all, do you work with different vendors like the Hancocks, the principals, the empowers, or are you guys doing your own record keeping? I should know better. [33:32] Faith Iope: We are doing our own record keeping. [33:33] JD: You are. Okay. And how do you think you compete against. Do you go after startups? [33:41] Faith Iope: We. I wouldn't say we go after them. I think that I love the startup and entrepreneur world. So when I say entrepreneur, I. I normally mean five years, you know, not a baby, baby entrepreneur. I just love that world. I love the mindset and so I just love talking in that space. So I'm in those circles a lot. So we definitely take on a lot. We service mostly banks, and so in that being a provider for banks, we also take on their small business clients and so kind of pushes us into all the different verticals. [34:18] JD: And do you think, do you have an eye on the pricing that Chad's talking about and do you feel a pressure to compete with it or you guys just charge your own fee that's higher than that? [34:30] Faith Iope: Since I'm a mom of four kids in elementary school, not a lot pressures me. But I do feel that, you know, we're probably pretty on point with the pricing. I'm not too afraid of it. I mean, really, it's. If we have to compare pricing, then we're not really comparing what we do. Does that make sense? [34:48] JD: Sure. [34:49] Faith Iope: Are you following what I'm saying? [34:50] JD: So you're saying pricing is not a problem. That's what I heard. It's about service. [34:58] Faith Iope: It is about service. And I think that communication is an enormous part of making sure that the audience understands what they really want. Because what they really want is not. Oh my People don't need this or we don't want to afford it. It's really opening their eyes to seeing what it can actually do for them and why they would want to get involved with it with their people. [35:21] JD: Well, I will tell you this, Chad, Justin, Mark, I think it's a good look for our industry. I think charging startup clients a fee, you know, third party administrator's been doing that since the beginning of time. Right. But for a record keeper to say, hey, this is the service we offer and because you have zero assets or whatever, we're going to charge you 1500 bucks or whatever it is, I like that because I think it's teaching the clients that these things cost something versus 10 years ago when I would sell 401k plans. A lot of times when it came to record keeping, there was no cost from the participants perspective or from the plan sponsors perspective, even though there was. So this is a good thing. It'll teach them that they need to pull out their wallet a little more for this type of stuff. [36:12] Faith Iope: Yeah, there's no reason why we should be bowing over and cutting our fees down to next to nothing for these startups. They're willing to pay money for a ping pong table or a subscription to something, you know, so if they're wanting a 401k anyways, then they should pay for it for sure. [36:30] JD: Can I ask a interesting question in my mind, which is why do they think we shouldn't charge? [36:40] Faith Iope: Why shouldn't we charge? [36:41] JD: No, why, why do clients think that there shouldn't be a charge for these services? Because if you take a step back and you think about what is happening, they are assigning a human being that comes at a cost to that, to that record keeper to sit with you often weekly to help you understand how this plan setup is going. To set up the payroll integration, to talk through, how to process contributions, to teach you the web, all of that is a service like there is physical human capital and technology which comes at expense happening there. Why have we gotten to a point where people think there shouldn't be a charge for those things? [37:17] JD: Or at least such a low charge? [37:21] JD: I don't know the answer, but it drives me nuts when I think about it. [37:24] Faith Iope: I know it is fascinating. I mean, but as a Jew and an Asian, I totally understand the need to scrape people. [37:37] JD: Didn't see that one coming. [37:40] JD: No, no, I think we, I feel [37:43] Justin: like we, by the way, I feel like we've done as an industry a pretty damn good job of programming people that way though. I mean, look at the solutions we're offering. Hey, cheaper, cheaper, cheaper. I mean, who else is at fault except for us as an industry? [37:58] JD: Yeah, no, that's why you take it [38:01] Chad: from the industry perspective and you bring it to everything. Just regular life. I mean, yeah, we shop, we shop on Amazon and you find the same product at six different places and it's like $6, 595. 590. Like you just pick the one that's less like, sorry, everyone here but JD does that. Okay, so. [38:24] Justin: Wow. [38:24] JD: Chad. I'm not answering that question. [38:28] Justin: That's privately chatting me something inappropriate [38:32] JD: is [38:33] Chad: what an acro sin, [38:36] JD: Chad? Yeah, well, I the term Jewish and I'm curious if that is an accuracy mark. [38:43] JD: I don't think so. [38:45] Chad: I'm gonna absolutely just say this. [38:49] Faith Iope: Oh, it's so green. [38:51] Justin: Well, I will tell you that I [38:54] JD: don't have enough energy to get on my soapbox. But that is why I'll reiterate this. I get upset with human interest and guideline and betterment. And when I see this article for Penelope, no offense to the, you know, the entrepreneur that's starting it, when they wave the flag of low cost and they point their finger at the legacy industry and say that we're ripping people off, you know, that were too expensive and they here they come to see save the day, it frustrates me because I feel like it's dragging us in the wrong direction. Therefore, if advisors support some of those companies as they now reach out to you to want to do work with you, even though in the beginning they wanted to cut you out and now they want to work with you, they've changed their tune then and you help them grow. I'm worried that this mentality of low cost is going to start to seep in like a cancer into the. The one million dollar plans, the five million dollar plans, the ten million dollar plans, and you're gonna, you're gonna whittle away at the value and the expertise and the professionalism that our industry has. And it's a slippery slope. [40:10] Faith Iope: Well, rather than fight these newcomers that are trying to change the sentiment of our audience, rather than fight them and bemoan it, I think it's a chance for all of us dinosaurs to step up our game. It's time for us to stop fighting it and saying, oh, they're giving the wrong message. We actually deliver the service. [40:32] Chad: Did you just call me a dinosaur? [40:35] Faith Iope: I think it's really important for us to say, okay, how can we communicate differently? How can we explain to them what really they're looking for why we're experts. And why would they even need an expert? They don't want this tiny cost. They don't want that message that's coming out. But we need to step up our game and not just try to out figure fight the guidelines and the human interest. [40:54] JD: But that is not what our industry is going to do. What our industry is what no our industry is going to do is we're going to play magic tricks with our cards up our sleeves and we're going to continue to lower the cost for your 401k while we rape and pillage your participant data and sell you financial wellness and sell you pet insurance and sell you other things. That's what's happening. So the industry disagrees with you, Faith. They're heading in a different direction and it all's fucking pissing me off. So let's play. Let's play a game. [41:31] Justin: We play a game around here. We call it Winners and Losers. I, you know, as I've mentioned and everyone, the chat bar keeps tearing me apart. [41:41] JD: I surfed way too long today. [41:43] Justin: I really phoned this winners and Losers in. And to be quite honest, I'm getting [41:46] JD: sick and tired of this game. So this is probably the last time time you let her see this game. Just like lamer game. We will be, you know, burying it today deep. Six feet into the dirt. So here we go. The last time ever. [41:58] Justin: Winners and Losers. Okay, to you, Faith. [42:11] Faith Iope: What am I doing here? [42:13] Justin: You just have to tell me. Which of these two bands do you love the most? Is it Poison or is it Skid Row? [42:22] JD: And why? [42:24] Faith Iope: Okay, so I'm just going to pick Poison because green is my favorite color. [42:30] Chad: Oh, I thought it was like meeting behind this thing. [42:35] Justin: Do you know who these bands are? [42:37] Faith Iope: No. There is a long era of my life where I listened to music and did not associate with the actual artist. This is part of that. [42:46] JD: How about you, Mark? [42:47] Justin: If you, if you had to put [42:49] JD: on the old headphones right now, which one of these guys are you listening to [42:55] Chad: is now it's gonna sound really bad. Is Brett Michaels, Is he the lead singer of Poison? [43:01] Justin: Because. [43:02] Justin: Because he's the guy in the, in the like the sailor hat. [43:05] Chad: Because I dislike that guy so much. I'm just gonna go sailor. Skid Row. [43:09] Faith Iope: Okay. [43:11] Chad: I don't know. Like all the, all the reality shows and stuff he has is like, I get this guy. [43:16] Justin: Chad. Do you know who either of these bands are? [43:18] JD: I know Poison. I have no idea who Skid Row is. That's what I'm over here typing in, trying to figure out what's the lead [43:23] Chad: singer's name of skid row. He's got it. [43:25] Justin: Sebastian. [43:26] Chad: Sebastian Bomb. [43:27] JD: Yeah. [43:28] Justin: Yeah. [43:28] Chad: He's got, like, a really classy name. So Google. [43:30] Justin: Google him. [43:31] JD: He's looking a little worn out these days. [43:33] Justin: All right, let's go to the next one. Let's go to the next one. [43:35] Chad: Justin. [43:37] Justin: Justin, next one we got. [43:40] JD: We're on time constraints here. [43:42] Justin: Okay? Faith, are you in the Taylor Swift camp or the Kanye camp? [43:47] Faith Iope: Taylor, for sure. [43:49] Justin: Wrong answer. [43:50] Faith Iope: I can't handle the Kanye hiding in bushes thing. [43:53] Justin: Justin. [43:54] Faith Iope: Of my own life. [43:56] Justin: Are you in the Kanye camp or the Taylor camp? [43:59] Justin: Go yourself. We're on a time constraint. Wow. [44:02] Faith Iope: Wow. [44:03] Justin: I'm not gonna ask Chad this one. [44:05] JD: I know my answer. [44:07] Justin: I personally, I feel bad that Kanye went on stage and, you know, interrupted her award. But in terms of creating music and [44:17] JD: creating the best music, Kanye's 10x what Taylor's created in her music career. Just my opinion. All right, let's go to the next one. [44:25] Justin: And Kanye, leave Kim and Davidson alone, please. [44:29] JD: All right, next slide. [44:30] JD: Okay. [44:31] JD: It's not really a slide, is it? [44:32] Justin: Not really involved in pop culture, man. [44:36] Justin: All right, [44:40] JD: you're in a trap. [44:41] Justin: Trap's your jam. Okay. [44:44] Faith Iope: If I have to pick one or the other. [44:47] JD: Okay. [44:48] Justin: But yeah. Yeah, you do. [44:50] Chad: Yeah. Can I give my answer? [44:52] JD: Sure, Mark. [44:53] Chad: Every day, any day. Trap just in the car, you know, [44:56] Justin: coming fresh up a Nashville. [44:58] Chad: Wait, wait. [44:59] JD: But when you go. [45:00] Chad: When you go to Nashville, you get wrapped up in all the fun, and then you start watching Chad dance with his boots on, and you're just like, I love this stuff, man. But the minute the plane takes off from Nashville, I'm like, trap music. Yeah. [45:13] Justin: Chad, I. I had to ask you this one. I think we all know the answer. You own cowboy boots. You live in a flyover state, which. What's your choice? [45:22] JD: And I listened to country music for years playing baseball. It was the only thing allowed while you were out there. So I'm all country between these two. [45:30] Justin: Justin, different question for you. Do you. Do you ever listen to country music? [45:36] JD: Like, do you enjoy it? [45:38] Justin: I don't even know what trap music is, man. [45:40] Justin: Trap music just kind of like today's version of pop hip hop. Like the rap that you hear on there. [45:46] Justin: Oh, okay. [45:47] JD: Got it. [45:47] Justin: Radio. [45:47] Chad: Do you know what. You know what a trap house is? [45:50] Justin: A tramp house or a trap house? [45:52] Chad: Trap house. [45:53] Justin: I think it's where they make drugs, right? [45:55] Chad: Where they make drugs. Yeah, yeah, it's the COVID of one of 2 Chainz's albums. [46:00] Justin: But, Justin, do you listen to country music ever? [46:02] JD: Just for fun? [46:03] Justin: On occasion, I do. [46:04] JD: You do? [46:04] Justin: You know, if it comes on, I'll. [46:08] Chad: Yeah. [46:08] JD: Okay. All right. I think we've got another one. Or another one. I don't know. [46:15] Justin: Nope. [46:16] Faith Iope: No. [46:17] Chad: Wow. [46:17] JD: That's your half ass. [46:18] Chad: Oh, we do all right. [46:20] JD: Oh, mister, [46:23] Chad: for the first time, I'm changing my answer. [46:26] JD: Who's the better? Who's the better person here? [46:29] Faith Iope: You know you have to pick Fred. [46:31] Justin: Good. [46:31] JD: Correct. [46:32] Chad: No, not this one, Rogers. [46:33] Justin: It's always Fred. We've done this with Jesus. We've done this with, you know, Gandhi. Fred has beaten all of them. [46:44] JD: Always wins. [46:45] JD: God, I'm tired. [46:47] Justin: Okay, let's go to the next subject. That is the last of winners and losers. [46:51] JD: You'll never see it again. Say goodbye. Say goodbye. Mark. [46:55] JD: Been fun. It's been fun. [46:57] Chad: That was a. That was a. I'll rate you on a scale to 1 to 10. That was a zero. [47:03] Justin: Good. [47:04] JD: I like it. [47:05] Justin: Let's see. Faith, you wrote me an email and [47:08] JD: you threw out some topics that you thought you would maybe want to talk about. [47:13] Justin: I got to be honest with you. You're such a creative, like, kind of free spirit. We haven't told anyone you host a pull to refresh on clubhouse. That's an app, Chad. That's like a social media. [47:27] JD: I am a clubhouse member. [47:30] Chad: It's where Mickey Mouse hangs out. Of course he knows what that is. [47:34] JD: Every Mouse Club every Monday at 7:00am West coast time. And I've listened to quite a few of them. And you just have a. A really cool way of taking 401k topics and kind of generalizing them and this and then just talk. Spilling the tea and having a conversation. I really like it when I read your email to me and the topics you want to talk about. I'm going to be honest with you. They're so out there. I didn't even understand half of them what you wanted to talk about. [48:02] Justin: So I'm going to read one to you and we'll see if Mark understands it. And then you tell me what the fuck you're talking about and how you want to talk about it. [48:09] JD: Okay. [48:09] Justin: You said the greater good versus administrative burdens. [48:16] JD: Even on a policy level, discussion sentiment [48:19] Justin: among our people pulls towards administrative doability. [48:22] JD: But we're an industry filled with smart people. [48:25] Justin: Let's talk about that. I don't know what that means. [48:29] Chad: Was that a poem? [48:32] JD: Yeah, that's exactly how I feel. [48:34] Chad: That was like a Shakespearean poem faith. What do you do? I know what it means. [48:39] Justin: No, what are you talking about there? [48:41] Faith Iope: I just, I am always fascinated and disappointed with whenever we have something that's brought to the table almost immediately, the very first conversation with it is about how complicated it will be administratively. And that's a little bit of a frustrating jump because it's like, well, but what's the right thing to do first? We're made up of an industry of like crazy intelligent people. All these experts, I mean, are just. You have so many brilliant minds in this industry. Why wouldn't we be able to come up with a solution if the policy was right? So I love that and it was great. I. I had so much fun at aspa. There was this one session, toyed around with this idea and a bunch of record keepers were saying, oh, this would be an administrative nightmare. I don't disagree with that, but I just wanted to see. I wonder though, if could it help? And. And on a topic that was very interesting to me and Brian Graf, man, if you. From now on, I have a new bar. If you think that I have been offended, I expect a personal phone call. And I just love it. Brian called me and he just said, let me just check in. Was there fair discourse here? And we had a great conversation about it. And I think that that is what I was craving during that session was really good discourse. Did we really flip it on its head? Do we really test it through the fire? Is that really what we should have been doing? [50:13] JD: I want to dig more into this Brian Graff thing. In the after show, I want to dig more into the Brian Graff. I'm fascinated with Brian Graff. So we'll save that for the after show. But I hear you. Mind you, I grew up in a third party administration firm where I remember being told, like, it's to our benefit that this shit's so confusing. I remember my dad even saying, like, thank God, like, these rules are so complicated because that's why we get paid the big bucks. You know, it keeps us in a job. [50:44] Justin: And I even remember some of my [50:45] JD: staff way back in the day giving lots of reports to our clients, kind of summary reports and things. And I asked them if they thought our clients were reading any of them and if there was some value. And their answer to me was, oh, well, it'll confuse them, but then they'll understand that what we do is complicated. [51:05] Justin: And I was like, okay, we're going to stop this bullshit. Like, we don't need to send them stuff to confuse them to prove our worth. [51:12] JD: But that, you're right, that is a problem of our industry. And I think there's a lot of people that still hang on to that stuff. [51:19] Justin: Chad, when you're out there selling, do you leverage complicated? [51:24] JD: Come on, be honest with the people. [51:26] JD: I said this, I swear. Honest with the people. [51:29] Chad: Yeah, he does. [51:30] JD: Absolutely not. I have. I said this on a CalSavers presentation the other day where someone in a Q and A afterwards said, your industry is too complicated. That's why I don't do 401k plans. And I said, I have built a career on taking the complicated and making it easy to understand because that's what we've done. I find analogies. I find ways to discuss topics. My goal in any point of sale is to give the client enough information to make an educated decision. But all I am trying to do is build enough trust that when I make a recommendation, they say, Chad's got me. That's right. He wants me to go cross tested instead of just doing a safe harbor match. Yep, Chad's got me. I believe he knows what he wants me to do and what I should be doing. And Chad's leading me the. So, no, jd, I don't overcomplicate it and I don't sell on it. [52:18] Chad: Just in the deliverables he gives to people with a lot of words. A lot of words. [52:23] JD: Well, let me ask you this, Mark. Is it. Do you ever find yourself creating a design for someone that maybe isn't the most effective design, but it's the easier to understand design? [52:38] Chad: Let me say something that's going to put me and probably, I don't know, paint me in a weird light, but bear with me. And I think it'll, on the general surface it'll make sense. If I can't explain something, I'm not going to design it that way. Okay, meaning if I'm trying to over complicate it for the sake of, you know, saving a little bit here or there, what's the point? Right? Like, why not just keep it. And again, I take this back to my third grade basketball coach who told us I'm not going to say the acronym, but the keep it simple, stupid approach. [53:13] JD: Okay? [53:14] Chad: And I've used that for my whole life. [53:16] Justin: Yeah. [53:16] JD: Well, Chad, do you remember we would have those debates where as a third party administrator, we would get really excited about looking at a census and figuring out the best way we could create a design, say, to maximize for the owner or something. And that might be, that might be like excluding some People with eligibility. Right. Then keeping them out because their ages didn't match up. Right. Or doing different things. And you and I would have that conversation about out don't design a plan [53:46] Justin: too complicated in year one and not. [53:51] JD: Yeah. And not have some. [53:52] Justin: Some foresight to understand what does this look like in year two and year [53:55] JD: three and year four. [53:57] Justin: And I'm curious where Chad thinks these days is simple better sometimes. [54:02] JD: So I'm going to support face point. Yes, simple is better sometimes and there are to your question to Mark there. I won't say often but there are a number of times where I look at what I can do with a supplemental match on top of a safe harbor or jumping up a non high lease profit sharing contribution that lowers everybody else because I gave someone 22% who terminated halfway through. Yes, I see it. I know I can do it. But the client's going to step over dollars to pick up pennies because they're not going to be able to run that plan. They're going to fail when they look at exclusions and who they're trying to bring in and who they're not and we're going to catch it on the back end and then it's going to be a charge from Nerissa attorney to fix it. But. But to face point and I heard you. I heard you when I say it. When I said it or typed it. And this is something my brother said to me years ago. We can't be so focused on what will succeed. [55:00] Chad: All that really good guest we had on the show that awesome that we [55:03] JD: look past what we think the future of this business could be like. Yet we may not be able to see it. Now we may be thinking that clients can't do this now but in a year or two with proper payroll integration if everybody starts playing friendly these things could be super easy. So don't give up on what is the right thing, what we should be aiming for as an industry because it can't happen now. Because honestly I can't dream of the technology that has already been created. I can't. The fact that I could say some lady's name and she's going to tell me what the weather is outside or in any state or any spot in the world. I never would have thought technology would exist. She's right there. So I don't say her name. [55:45] Chad: Alexa, play trap music. The thing. [55:48] Justin: Hey Brandon, that's a Chad Nuggets moment. We need Chad's Nuggets. Well said, Chad. Faith, let me ask you [55:57] JD: do you design Safe harbor matches that are 100, the first 3% and 50% of the next two. [56:04] Justin: Or do you design safe harbor matches that are 100 of the first 4%? [56:08] Faith Iope: Why are you asking me this question? [56:10] JD: Because I say one is complicated and one is simple. [56:13] Chad: I say they call one a basic match when it's not. [56:17] Justin: I'm with bill shores. I'm 100 the first 4% all day long, 50% of the next two. What say you, Faith? [56:29] Chad: Oh, I thought that was Chad. [56:30] Justin: Do you disagree with me, Faith? [56:32] Faith Iope: Oh, I am not disagreeing with you. I like the simplicity. I think it's ridiculous to try to have communicate that difference of three and five and there's just so many numbers. So I do like the simplicity. I think that some people try to argue that there's some psychology behind making the three and the five to push for people to contribute a little bit more. [56:53] JD: But yeah, for sure, if they're going [56:55] Faith Iope: to do it, they're going to do it. [56:57] JD: I'm down for a stretch match. I'm down for. [56:59] Justin: I mean you 50% of the first 8%. [57:02] JD: Like that's simple. Still, I just, I think Bill got. I think the chat bar got. What I was saying is I'm done with the classic definition of a safe harbor match. It doesn't. You don't need the half a percent for someone that's not incentive. [57:14] Faith Iope: Totally. [57:14] Justin: Has anyone ever done a triple stack match? [57:18] Justin: You can't triple circle. [57:19] Chad: Have you really? [57:21] JD: Unfortunately. [57:23] Justin: Okay, let's. [57:24] JD: I think we. I want to talk Brian Graff in the after show. And then someone in the shop bar asked you about some story about your retirement plan knowledge getting you out of a fix or something. So we'll, we'll go back to that. Maybe someone can write that question again for me. [57:40] Justin: And then another thing you brought up [57:42] JD: we'll do in the after show is Faith, you said you want to tell some of our most awkward 401k stories out there. [57:50] JD: Things that have happened so far. [57:51] Faith Iope: It's the eve of awkward national Awkward moments day. [57:55] JD: Mine is a winner. Faith. [57:57] Justin: It's always something. It's always something. [57:59] JD: Justin, who is your vote for chat bar champion? [58:03] JD: Oh, shit. [58:04] Justin: Come back to me. [58:06] JD: Mark. Your vote for chat bar champion. [58:08] Chad: The one, the only Sherry Fitz Cherry [58:12] JD: Fitz Chad, your vote for chapter champion. [58:15] JD: I'm scared to say it because it likely gives him the sweep, but Hackler was on from start to finish. He was good all night long. [58:24] JD: I too am voting for Hackler for his. I always like it when people rip on me. And he ripped on Me several times today, which was deserved. [58:31] Justin: Justin [58:34] Justin: brawl and cheese. [58:37] Chad: What, again? [58:38] Justin: Scroll and choose. Just chat. Amanda. [58:41] Justin: Amanda. [58:41] JD: Okay, Amanda, the half of the Shamanda is back in the finals again. All right, Faith, your vote. [58:49] Faith Iope: Okay, so I initially wanted to pick Greg because he was just spot on with all the Faith jokes. But play favorites with Sherry. I mean, she was dropping comments like, true cherry is the currency of our industry, and I love that kind of stuff. [59:04] JD: Sherry Fitz, the sock woman. [59:06] Justin: Okay, Sock woman's in. All right, Brandon, we got Hackler, we got Sherry, we got Amanda. [59:15] JD: Amanda of the show, Manda. [59:17] JD: J.D. while people are voting, can I see your hat? It looks. I was gonna say it looks sweet. It's got all the, like, the speckles, freckles all over it. Looks like a cool hat. Yeah. [59:31] Chad: Maybe with how sore you are from surfing, you should stick to golf, buddy. [59:35] JD: Yeah. [59:36] Justin: Okay, Sherry Fitz, you are the winner. [59:39] JD: Sherry, let us know what mug you'd like. A Justin Mark, a Chad, or JD and we will ship it out to you because I've got your address. Sherry, you're in the system. Faith, thank you so much for being our guest on today's show. I'm sorry that I was so low energy. I promise next time to be fired [1:00:03] Justin: up on some type of drugs or something. Thank you to everyone in the audience for tuning in. [1:00:11] JD: You know what? I also want to let you guys know, everyone should give Brandon a virtual round of applause when he streamed for y' all Last week at 4:30 Pacific, our live show from the stage in Nashville. [1:00:26] Justin: You guys don't know. [1:00:27] JD: He had to bust his ass. [1:00:29] Justin: He literally had to run to a green room backstage there, pull all these audio files, pull the video files. He had probably, like, 40 minutes to do it. It came down to the wire, and he was able to stream the show at 4:30. So that was a lot of work that went into that. And I want you all to know that. That that's how much he loves you, that he busted his ass to get [1:00:51] JD: that out to you. So I hope, hopefully, you enjoyed that. [1:00:54] Justin: And that show, if you didn't see it, is. [1:00:56] JD: I think it's on our retireholic site now, so you can watch. That was a lot of fun to speak with Mr. Moody there. And thanks for tuning in. It's been another episode of Retireholics. Now we're going to go to the after show, and Faith's going to stick around with us because she knows if she doesn't go to the after show with us, then we talk a bunch of shit about her, so. All right, wrap it. I'm going to the bathroom. [1:01:19] JD: I'm going to get a piece of pizza first.