DOL Investigator on PEP Conflicts & 3(16) Fiduciary Risks

[0:00] JD: You ready to rock? [0:00] Chad: Yes. [0:01] Justin: Do it. [0:02] Mark: Here we go. Nice. [0:34] Chad: Welcome everybody, to another episode of Retireholics. My name is. I don't know, I forgot. [0:42] JD: And I'm here with Justin McNeil. Mark Palmini. Yeah, the guy in the robe. And no, this will be a nugget free episode today. [0:57] Mark: Vegan. Vegan nuggets. [0:59] Chad: There will be no nuggets today because the nuggeter is playing golf at Bandon Dunes. The little. Mark, you sent me an email today [1:11] JD: and I liked what you said in the email and it was in Outlook [1:15] Chad: and up in the top right, I clicked the little like Facebook thumb. I know it's not Facebook, but the, you know, the approval thumb. Have you seen this in email? And. [1:25] JD: And I clicked on your email and said yes. [1:27] Chad: Mark Palmini, I like your email. I'm not gonna respond to it, but I like it. Did you get any confirmation of this? Like, [1:35] Mark: let me get a check. Let me check. [1:37] JD: I wanna figure that out. I wanna figure that out. [1:39] David Donaldson: I need to do what Facebook did or Apple and put the middle finger one in there. [1:44] Chad: That would be good. [1:44] Justin: I've been waiting for that one to come in there. [1:47] JD: Welcome, everyone. [1:48] Chad: We're happy that you're here. [1:51] Mark: It shows the thumbs up and if I hover over it, it just says J.D. carlson. [1:56] Chad: Okay, so you didn't really get a notification, but okay. I was always curious about that. Well, there's a lot of fun stuff to talk about, so I'm excited for today. [2:06] JD: But before we do that, Justin, can you intro our black shirt buddy who's the guest for the episode today? And don't forget out there, you're gonna rank Justin on a 0 to 10 on how he does take it away. Justin. [2:20] Justin: Well, today's guest is a bit of a boss. Before starting his current venture, he was a senior investigator knocking down doors for the employee benefit administration. They say knocking down doors because if you ever visit his website, you can tell this dude is not one to be messed with. There's a very FBI agent or Larry H. Parker esque feel to it. I have a feeling that when plan sponsors saw him coming back in the day, they were probably like, ah, shit, honey, here comes Donaldson. Better get out that checkbook. Don't even fill in an amount. Just hand it over. Now he's taken a different approach and helps clients get on a straight and narrow. Hopefully before Schlichter walks through the door. He also partakes in being an expert witness as a national speaker on all things Erisa and has been recognized as one of the top 100 most influential people in the D.C. world. He's president and CEO of ERISA Smart. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. David Donaldson. [3:10] David Donaldson: Glad to be here. [3:11] JD: Glad to be here. [3:12] Chad: Welcome to the show, David. Yeah, welcome to the show, David. We're going to play some games today. It's important that you're aware of these games. First and foremost, we will be playing Chat Bar Champion. So make sure you keep your eye on that chat bar and you vote for your favorite person at the end of the show, because that will put them into the finals. Hackler gave you a six. Justin, I'm with you. Hackler is kind of like. I feel like just has been phoning it in a little bit on the intros, you know, following the same kind of strategy and just. We'll see. Maybe he can approve that. [3:46] Justin: You just want me to start lying about. [3:47] JD: Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion. [3:52] Mark: How does he have the shit on the phone? So anyways, I love the fact that now Justin has a joke. You notice he even like pauses for a second, forgetting that we're on a zoom where he's expecting maybe an audience. Laughter. So, Brandon, you need to have a laughter button ready to go for Justin's joke. [4:13] JD: Got the best laughter button in the business. We so chap our champion every week [4:19] Justin: for a year and see how. How creative you get. [4:22] JD: Shepherd Champion will be a thing. David, we are also playing acro Sin. This is the important one. [4:29] Chad: If you say an initialism or an acronym, my name excluded. You must drink from your penalty drink. And that's got to be something severe. [4:38] Mark: Oh, there it is. [4:39] David Donaldson: You can see it. What is it? [4:41] Chad: Yeah, what are you drinking? [4:42] David Donaldson: Little vodka, Little ketos with a little bit of lime. [4:45] Chad: Okay, I'm drinking some straight up. Same thing, straight up. And then we've got a couple other little fun things to play. Captain Morgan's [4:57] Mark: Sound. [4:58] JD: Is that the spiced rum? [5:00] David Donaldson: I got the Tito's full size, too. [5:03] JD: Mark, did you steal that from a [5:05] Chad: fraternity somewhere or something? [5:08] Mark: From Chad's sophomore year at William Woods. [5:11] Chad: Let's get right into some headlines, shall we? Brandon, let's do some headlines. First headline I want to go over is Goldman Sachs Buys Next Capital. I. I'm ashamed to say I consider myself someone who lives, breathes and sleeps retirement plans. I have never heard of Next Capital in my life. [5:46] JD: Am I the only one or any [5:48] Chad: of you guys heard of this firm before? [5:49] Justin: I had no clue who they were. [5:50] JD: Okay, good. I'm not the only one. [5:52] Mark: Oh, I totally knew. But they're the whole time. [5:55] JD: Well, they are Goldman Sachs. Let's see. Goldman Sachs has acquired Next Capital, a Chicago based fintech firm that provides automated [6:06] Chad: advice to corporate retirement plan participants. Go figure. [6:12] Mark: I will say that their website is really like when you. It's, it's not even like sick and slick and cool. It's kind of boring. Yeah, it looks like a, it looks like a light paper. [6:25] JD: It's weird. I agree with you Mark. I went the same way and it was very mysterious. There wasn't a lot there. But Goldman Sachs are no idiots. They must be a big firm. They started in 2014 and they've raised some $85 million. But what I want to talk more about here is that Goldman, Goldman is saying that they have $350 billion in assets under supervision they call it for defined benefit and defined contribution plans. And by the supervision is just a new woke way of saying under management. And I don't even see Goldman as like this big player. I realize they're a money manager, I realize they're in the wealth management game but. So here's my conspiracy and here's what I want to get your guys thoughts on. I keep saying watch out for the [7:18] Chad: record keepers, watch out for the disruptors and I say watch out. I'm talking to the advisors. I guess I'm not paying enough attention to some of these other third party things. [7:31] JD: So should we be worried about Goldman trying to go after participants? I'm going straight to you David. [7:39] Chad: Other outside the industry types of non 401k big players, are they a fear for us as well? [7:45] David Donaldson: Yeah, I mean the reality is I don't think they'll ever replace the, you know, the advisor that sits down with the committee, does what they're supposed to do, gives them guidance. You know I see it as a, maybe a plug and play for a managed account or something like that. [8:00] JD: Yeah, it's a robo. [8:01] Chad: It's their kind of robo solution. The same way Empower buys personal capital. I just, I guess I never just saw Goldman like I get it. Empower buys personal capital. Okay, watch out for Empower. They're looking to monetize a participant Goldman always looked at as like oh that's just a wealth manager over here. You know it's a, it's a mutual fund company, a wealth manager. I realize they do more things than just have mutual funds of course but I never sat in fear of them trying to poach my retirement plan. Advisors opportunities to, to manage the participants in these plans. [8:36] David Donaldson: And it doesn't seem like Goldman wants to play in the micro market where this might make a little bit more sense, but I mean Goldman was always the guys with the dark suits and the gold ties on walking into board meetings. I don't see them in this space. Okay, well maybe they got another purchase up their sleeve. [8:56] Chad: Just keep my, again, my, my little kind of keep your eye on the ball is all these fintechs are looking to get in. Bigger firms are looking to partner with them. And let's just be a little wary, keep our eyes on them because they also see defined contribution participants as the cash cow, which to me comes in direct opposition with what we've been doing and trying to work on. Not for everyone, but for a lot of businesses, models. [9:25] JD: Let's go to the big one. Setting every community up for retirement. [9:33] Chad: What's the last one? Expansion. Is that right thing? [9:37] JD: Everyone, first 2.0. Let me know if I got that right out there. [9:41] Mark: Enhancement. [9:42] JD: Brandon doesn't understand what that means. I'm talking secure act. I'll drink for it. Brandon. [9:45] Chad: Oh, there he goes. [9:49] JD: Okay, so this has gone through the first part of our little two or three part government system. [9:56] Chad: Right. [9:58] JD: And it went through in some massive way. Right. [10:01] Chad: I, I forget there's only I think four naysayers. Everyone else voted for it. [10:05] JD: I've seen a dude, it was. [10:07] Mark: Wouldn't that be cool if you were one of those people though? I mean that's just like. Yeah, I said no to that. [10:13] Justin: Like why? [10:15] David Donaldson: Why? Let's go for, you know, I think they're going to try to fix pooled employer problems. [10:22] Justin: I like that. [10:24] Chad: It's funny when I posted or I reposted on LinkedIn that this had gone through the first stage here and there was a couple of like whiners that were saying, oh, big deal, this kind of, this reg sucks. I don't like it. There's not a lot to it. I even reached out to Kate Clark, our advisor buddy, because she was one of those whiners on the Internet. And I said, Kate, tell me like what is it that you don't like about this new reg? And her answer to me was she doesn't like the auto enroll and auto increase feature. Mandatory features for small plans. So that's part of this new rule which we've talked about before. And her concern is that these smaller companies aren't ready to handle payroll wise auto enrollment. They're gonna screw it all up and it's become a nightmare for them. Mark, Shaking your head. [11:21] Mark: No, it's the same, I think it's the same argument. We Always have. We're over here trying to promote getting people into plans and then we find a way that can hopefully help. And we're constantly shitting all over it. It's like, I get it. Guess what, guess what? It's going to take somebody sitting down, doing a job, and yeah, they're going to have a little extra to do. I'm not saying that it's going to be easy. We talk about that all the time. But it's a necessity. Right? Just like processing payroll, you have to put somebody into payroll to pay them and put in their, their tax features and their deduction. Like, it's, it's just an additional step. And I get where she's coming from because, yeah, it is going to be. Again, we've overcomplicated a lot of things and we talk about compliance and how people can screw that up if they don't actually take care of it. But if we could loosen the reins a little bit, maybe in addition to this, if we're forcing people to do it, maybe make it less. Like, if you don't do it, this and this and this and this have to be done. [12:25] David Donaldson: Here's the good question. [12:26] Speaker F: Right. [12:27] David Donaldson: Michael Webb just put. Excludes churches and governments. Why aren't that doing this in the Thrift Savings Plan? [12:33] Chad: I, yeah, well, I, I also think, [12:36] JD: and someone needs to check me on [12:37] Chad: this, I think it excludes companies with like less than 10 employees as well. And so that was my comeback to Kate was like, I think there's an exception for small businesses with less than 10 employees, which to me feels like employee. [12:53] Justin: It's going to be the easiest thing in the world, though, like, oh, I gotta enroll 10 employees once. Like, why are you excluding that, that group? [12:59] David Donaldson: Right. [12:59] Justin: Well, because, yes, Kate and Chad. All right, it's a good thing Chad's not on here. But people will fuck it up in the beginning for sure. But like Mark, it's going to become a process. It's just second nature eventually. So why not just get them over the hump and do it? [13:11] JD: I was thinking the exclusion of the blow 10, Justin. [13:13] Chad: Was that because those are really like mom and pop shops that will fuck it up more. Like, even though they have less people, they're going to fuck it up because they just don't. They do internal payroll on spreadsheets. They don't, they don't have an HR drink for that team. [13:28] Justin: Yeah, but they're still processing payroll. [13:32] JD: Yeah, but not, not necessarily through a modern system. [13:36] Chad: And they're not uploading things. [13:38] JD: They're Doing it, let's be honest here [13:41] Mark: is the biggest headache for that person in that desk is when you enroll everybody. And after that first pay period, when nobody's paying attention, they all see a deduction come out and then they come knocking on human resources door and say, I didn't want to do this. That's the headache. Okay, yeah, fair enough. [14:03] Chad: That's accurate. There's other stuff in this besides that, so I'll just give you a quick overview. Although most people tuning into this are pretty sharp in the 401k biz, but [14:13] JD: there's some required minimum distribution pushouts to age 75. It pretty much looks like we saw [14:20] Chad: it, what was it, two years ago? Year and a half ago. I mean, it's pretty similar. [14:24] JD: There's this new super catch up thing [14:26] Chad: where you could actually do catch up of like 10k or something. It's Jeannie Fisher's favorite reg in the world because Roth is through all of it. You're gonna get Ross in your, in your individual retirement account options. I won't say the S word one because I don't know what it stands for. [14:43] JD: I'd mentioned the mandatory auto enrollment. We already bitched about that a little bit. There's. There's changes to that. [14:50] Chad: That three year startup, 5,000 bucks, for [14:55] JD: which I think this is a cool one. So there used to be. [14:59] Chad: Yes, you got it. Justin went from 50 to 100%, which, that's pretty cool. Like I can't see if you're in the micro startup market, you must love this credit shit. If it goes through, I mean, I [15:11] JD: mean you probably love it already, but [15:13] Chad: you might as well boost it up. [15:15] Justin: I haven't dug too deep into it. Have they talked about how they're. Are they still planning on treating part timers the same as the original act? [15:22] JD: Are you just. Are you throwing me an underhand pitch [15:24] Chad: or are you honestly asking me that question? [15:26] Justin: That's all I do for you, buddy. [15:27] Mark: Don't give away secrets. [15:30] JD: Yeah, they're looking at that part time [15:32] Chad: employer thing and changing it from three years to two years, so making it a little more aggressive. Okay, so we'll see. But again, some people are even saying that they're not so certain this is going to go all the way through. Which to me, I don't know a ton about dc, that's check swing. [15:49] JD: I don't know a ton about the [15:50] Chad: government, but how can something pass so heavily through that? [15:57] JD: And now what, it goes to the Senate? And you're telling me that somehow that's different in the Senate and that they're going to have way more naysayers against [16:04] Chad: it before it goes up. [16:05] JD: President. [16:05] Chad: That sounds crazy. [16:06] Mark: Toss that one to David. [16:07] Justin: That's all I know. [16:08] David Donaldson: That's all politicking, right? I mean, that's what they're trying to do. It's like, hey, look, okay, you have this. We want this. When are we going to come together? And you know, there's no such thing as bipartisan. It's all about what you can do for me when you get to that [16:22] Chad: level, what else is in it. What else is in it. [16:24] JD: And I. We won't go into Biden's new tax plan. Maybe we'll say that for another week or something. But that's some interesting stuff there too, which I think has obviously a lot [16:37] Chad: less legs than this. Setting up every cat for whatever 2.0. [16:42] JD: I'm gonna move on to one that I think that was. [16:44] Mark: I must say, Jenny, that was pretty low key and not too excited about something that's pretty big in our nerdy industry. So I thought you were gonna be beating the drum. You seem really excited about it. And that was just kind of like our. [16:57] Chad: Well, it's not a done deal yet. [17:00] Mark: I know, I know. And that was a problem we had last time where we got way too excited, overanalyzed everything, just closed the door on it. [17:08] Chad: Fair enough. But don't take it from me, I'm just a dumb surfer. But I think this one's pretty well set to keep moving forward. But we'll see. Have you all seen the national association of Plan Advisors? Top defined contribution lists that come out? I've got two of them that I sent to Brandon. I don't know how well he's going to be able to scroll through them, but I find these very, very interesting. The first one I'd love to look at, Brandon, if you could find it, [17:38] JD: is the multi office one. [17:42] Chad: And I'm going to try to pull it up on my computer here. [17:46] JD: The multi office. [17:48] Chad: So basically what they do here is they. They go out and ask these firms. I think it's on the firm's honesty. [17:54] JD: I think they're basically answering a question. [17:57] Mark: Tell us some of those numbers. [17:58] JD: Yeah, we have this many assets under management. [18:01] Chad: We have this many plans, we have this many staff on our team. [18:05] JD: And the. [18:05] Chad: The multi office one, as far as I understand it, I'm not an expert [18:09] JD: on this, but brings together like all the one digital together. Right. [18:13] Chad: All Cap Trust. [18:15] JD: So I'm imagining like Vince Morris and [18:18] Chad: Fielding Miller and all These big shots sitting back in their, like mahogany, you [18:23] JD: know, wall paneled offices, drinking really expensive bourbon, trying to see like where they [18:29] Chad: fall on this power ranking list. At the top is Cap Trust. [18:35] JD: In second place is Morgan Stanley. Then you got Sage View. Then National Financial Partners comes in at, at, in fourth. [18:45] Mark: Then. [18:49] JD: Global Retirement Partner. How far you get down to those global retirement partners? One Digital comes in at like seventh or eighth with. I should get this right. When the numbers get this big, it gets tough, I think. 99 billion in assets under management. 5143 planned. So anyways, not a lot to learn from this one except for checking out egos and, and seeing who's at the top of the list and who's bigger than whom, who's acquired more. [19:20] Mark: One of the biggest numbers that jumps off the board at me just kind of, you know, it trips me out a little bit because you think when you're at the top of the heap a lot of them would look very similar. But do you see the total plans for CAP Trust versus Morgan Stanley? Isn't that crazy that Morgan Stanley's got 15,000 more plans but they've got 200 billion, million million, whatever. The number is less. It's just crazy. I don't know. I was surprised to see that. [19:52] Chad: I like where you're going this mark because this is what I do with this stuff and I'm going to do a lot on this next one we're going to look at but kind of [19:59] JD: trying to look underneath the numbers and to me that one makes sense. [20:03] Chad: It's a lot of little regional Morgan Stanley shops with. Yeah. [20:08] JD: People who are bringing in startups and [20:10] Chad: $500,000 takeovers and million dollar plans. [20:13] Mark: You could start to get to that point, but it's a drastic difference. I just, I didn't. [20:18] David Donaldson: You look at a lot of these, you look at a lot of these like Morgan Stanley guys, they've got good relationships with some of these, you know, payroll companies and you know, they swing all day long. Yeah. [20:32] JD: Little feeders feed them little tiny plans. [20:35] David Donaldson: I got a hundred plans. No plan is over a million dollars. You know, that happens all the time. [20:42] JD: Wasn't it automatic data processing that was just feeding them tons of plans over the years I believe. Brandon, pull up the next one, which I think is a lot more exciting to look at, which is the teams one. And so now I believe what's happening [20:57] Chad: is Captrust one Digital. These big national firms are being broken [21:02] JD: into their smaller regional offices. So now why I think this is fun is I Feel like you're really looking at an entrepreneur now. Like you're looking at a small company that does retirement plans. And to Mark's point, you can really kind of start to dive into the numbers a little bit. So just to give you guys a taste on this one at the top, I gotta scroll all the way up. There is a CAP Trust New York firm with five advisors, 133 billion, and 172 plans. But what's going on in the chat bar? Let me scroll down. Let me scroll down. Midway. And I just plucked one out and kind of did that little fun assumptions that Mark was doing Midway down at 1.2. [21:53] Chad: Excuse me. [21:54] JD: Yeah, 1.2 billion with 115 plans out of Edina, Minnesota, which is where my [22:02] Chad: wife was born and raised, by the [22:04] JD: way, is 401k plan professionals. [22:10] Chad: I didn't know this firm. [22:11] JD: Actually, I did know the firm, but I didn't recognize the name until I clicked on it. And I'll talk more about that in a second. But I looked at their firm and 115 plans. [22:23] Chad: I'm trying to say, what can we learn from this kind of stuff? Right? What can we learn? [22:27] JD: One of the things we can learn is they got 115 plans, 1.2 billion. I do the math on that. And their plans are kind of hovering around 10 million. [22:39] Chad: Now, I'm doing an average. Of course, they probably got a $60 million plan and a $40 million plan. Who knows? Maybe they got a $200 million. I'm just guessing here, looking at the numbers. If they average 10 million, then I'm thinking to myself, okay, this is what you do when you're a money fiend like me. You think, well, how much do they make per plan? Is it 10 grand? Is it 15 grand? Is it 20 grand? [23:01] JD: I took a stab. I said 15 grand. I start to do the math on that. I'm like, so here's a Firm that's generating 1.7 million. I'll bet you I've underestimated. I'm guessing maybe the revenue is higher than that. But then I want to go see [23:16] Chad: how many people work there. [23:17] JD: Per this research paper, they have three advisors. So three plans, 115. Yeah, it's about 38 per person. And that you're nailing it. That's my question for you, David. What do you think is an appropriate [23:34] Chad: student to teacher ratio of advisor to plans? [23:37] David Donaldson: Yeah. How many committee meetings do you actually do? Right? And how many. [23:41] JD: Just sit back. [23:43] Chad: Let's say 3.2 committee meetings. A year? [23:47] David Donaldson: Yeah. I think that you got to look at the size of the market, too. I mean, I have plans that I've been introduced to that have less than a million dollars in the advisors that are every quarter. I mean, is that really necessary, or can some of that stuff happen via Zoom, Via a call? Those smaller plans, they're trying to pull everybody from the warehouse so they can put together a committee. Right. And the reality is you really have to have that same structure in a plan that's under a million dollars versus a plan that's 10, 20, 30 million. I don't think so. I think the decisions have to be still prudent. I think the decisions have to be in the best interest of the participants. But I don't think that you need to pull people out of the warehouse or, you know, get your wife, who's on payroll, to be part of it. I think it's just sometimes we overkill things. [24:38] Mark: $1 million. [24:41] JD: Justin, if an advisor came to you, [24:44] Chad: was really had their eyes set on kind of building a big A business, a successful business, I mean, what would you say? What do you. What do you think one advisor can handle in terms of plans? And let's say those plans are a million dollar average. [25:00] JD: Hey, chat bar, slow down on all the jokes. I'm trying to work with Justin and Mark here. I'm not reading it. I don't know. [25:08] Mark: You're getting shot. Keep my name out of your fucking mouth. That's already come up. [25:14] Chad: If they ask you, Justin, like, what's an appropriate amount of plans that I could handle before I have to hire someone, how would you answer? [25:21] Justin: God, didn't we already talk about this? Yeah, a couple months back. I don't know. And what I said was shunned, I guess. I don't know that you can handle by yourself. What, 40 to 50? I mean, I think the spread was like 25 to 50 that we came up with last time. [25:38] Chad: I think that's a figure that. [25:39] JD: All on your own, Eric? [25:40] Chad: Guess. [25:40] JD: David, you're shaking your head. [25:43] David Donaldson: You know, I think that people are a little afraid to use some of the technologies out there. You know, we've seen a lot come out in this pandemic, and, you know, we're able to get a committee together off the cuff just because we can all jump on a Zoom call together. I think if people use technology correctly, then they'll be able to, you know, increase their margins by not having to have a quarterly meeting every single. For every client, every time. Right. I mean, using good fund menus that are consistent across the board. That's the way to do it. [26:15] JD: It's almost like. [26:17] Justin: Or if they're leveraging tech, what do you think is an appropriate number then [26:23] David Donaldson: on the tech? Right. I mean, if you're building out similar menus, that number gets a lot bigger. If you're using certain things like checklists and things that allow you to kind of go through a consistent model in all of your plans, then you're going to be much higher than somebody who comes and brings donuts and sits down with the committee and spends two hours talking at them. [26:43] Chad: These are really important things to think about. If you're an advisor and you want to be successful in the K biz. I mean, you do have to think about this. As you look at that list, you're going to see a whole spectrum. [26:57] JD: You're going to see some like really [26:59] Chad: high plan counts with some low head counts and vice versa. And I'm sure there's more to the details for a lot of these firms as you look underneath them. [27:08] JD: The chat bars saw that one. I didn't see any of the earlier rips on me, so I don't know. But, but so I think it's really. And it's funny you brought up that point. I then clicked on 401k plan professionals. I went to their website and I recognized who they were and I didn't know that as I was analyzing them. And if you go to their site, you will find very quickly they leverage [27:30] Chad: this technology that you're talking about. David. [27:33] JD: They hold very regular fiduciary education webinars for all of their 115 clients. [27:41] Chad: And I'm guessing their prospects. [27:43] JD: They hold mass education for all of their plans. So part of me think in these. And they're so all woman firm. These three women have their shit figured out and they're doing it in an efficient manner, servicing 115 clients with over a billion dollars in assets. Which shows me there's a way to do it. [28:02] David Donaldson: Yeah, for sure. I met an advisor and I can't remember his name, but he used to use the same record keeper. Anything under 10 million use the same record keeper, same model, all the investments, he did the same thing and he was able to knock out, you know, 50, 60 committee meetings by having them all on one Zoom and then following up with, you know, individual questions and things of that. But he was using technology as it should be used. I mean, there's just no reason to sit in a committee meeting for two and a half hours and talk shop. You know, it's ridiculous. Some of these committee meetings I sit in. [28:33] JD: David, let's. Let's feed the. Let's feed the zoo animals right now. And Will Hackler's voice will say, shut up, JD and spin the mother effing wheel of vice. That'll make everyone happy. What do you mean everyone? Everyone [29:04] David Donaldson: have a little bit of. [29:06] JD: No, no, no, no, no. Okay. All right, David, this is your opportunity to let everyone know about Orisa Smarts, kind of what you're up to, because we'll be counting Smirnoff with makers. I'll drink for that. So you've got probably, I don't know, 15 seconds for Justin and about two minutes for me. [29:33] David Donaldson: So, you know, Erisa Smart was originally founded as kind of outsourcing fiduciary responsibility. From an administrative standpoint, we've kind of become more than that, kind of an overall. I say Erisa risk management company. We work in the field of independent fiduciaries. We work in the field of ancillary, you know, administrative services, such as, like, 316. We have a 402A product. We also do a lot of just consulting when people need a little bit of help. The fcps, things of that nature, and especially. That's a big one. [30:09] Chad: It actually tastes pretty good. [30:11] JD: Not bad. [30:13] Justin: You do makers in it? [30:15] Chad: Yeah, I play by the rules. What did you do? [30:18] Justin: I did vodka. [30:21] Speaker F: I'm doing courage Whiskey. I don't know what that is. [30:25] David Donaldson: A few sips, I'll just go big. [30:28] Mark: You're interrupting David, who's actually. [30:32] JD: Oh, boy. [30:33] David Donaldson: Okay, you want. You want to know what we're about? Go to my website. Let's just drink beer and have fun. Talk shop. [30:40] Chad: Go check out the website and the very CIA dang it videos. [30:46] Justin: Yeah, I'm not. I'm not gonna lie. Like, I was. I was frightened. I was like, dude, this guy will me up if I ever get out of line here. [30:52] David Donaldson: You know the reality. Look at the reality, right? The Department of Labor finds, what, 70% of plans out of compliance? And that's like a decade worth of numbers, right? It's not just like last year. It's like it was decade, right? [31:06] Justin: Billion in fines over the last five years or something like that. [31:09] David Donaldson: Yeah, it's ridiculous. You know, it's like, what have we done as an industry to fix that problem, right? I mean, if over the last decade, where it's still at 70%. Look, give me a call when it's at 35, right? I mean, that's the reality. You know, the numbers you know, granted, you know, it's not a tremendous amount of dol. There we go. [31:33] JD: I went to burp out a little bit. Okay. David, I know that your firm and you, it's much more than a 316 [31:44] Chad: and you do other type of risk management services. I know you've got your finger in a couple of different kind of tech and business models and, and new stuff [31:53] JD: on the horizon that's coming out. But let's talk 316 a little bit, if you don't mind. I know, you know, I've had past [32:00] Chad: conversations, so let me just ask you a quick conversation, quick question. When 3:16 first started to become a thing, you and I talked about what we called light 316 versus what I thought a perfect 316 should be and how there's a spectrum in between. Has that changed at all? [32:23] JD: Like, has the market defined what 316 is? Or do we still live in this world of different types of variations? [32:29] David Donaldson: You know, I think it's even gotten worse. Right. You have people who provide 316 services, but they don't have any kind of fiduciary responsibilities or they just simply have an indemnification. So I think the net's gotten thrown a little bit wider. Right. People who have like Transamerica's pass program, that's a 316 service, but it's not. [32:50] JD: It feels more like a. It's been a while since I looked at it, so I apologize. But like delivering notices and things and. [32:56] Mark: Right. [32:58] David Donaldson: You know, Fidelity has been doing opt out distributions for years. Right. So it's all automated, but they're not calling it a 316. So I think, you know, you know, it either is or it isn't. [33:11] Speaker F: Right. [33:12] David Donaldson: If you're indemnifying it, just be up front, you know, and these guys are out there selling this like, oh, well, we provide 316 service. Well, it's an indemnification and you got to do a civil action because the DOL won't hold this. [33:25] JD: You like, that's the one that gets you. [33:27] David Donaldson: Yeah, it gets me. But you know, the reality is. [33:30] Mark: David. [33:31] David Donaldson: Yeah. [33:32] Mark: How would you define indemnification? That just for the audience, in case somebody doesn't know. [33:38] David Donaldson: I'll give you a perfect example. [33:39] JD: Art's asking for a friend. [33:42] Mark: Yeah. [33:42] David Donaldson: If as an investigator and I find your plan out of compliance, I hold the plan administrator responsible. If that plan sponsor waives this indemnification from me, I'm going to go tell them to figure that out in civil Court, So it becomes a civil court issue. So now you got to go sue a big insurance company over a five. You know what? Five. Ten thousand dollar air. What's the cost? [34:06] Chad: You're not gonna do it? [34:07] David Donaldson: No, not at all. And so it's ridiculous that these indemnifications are out there. And I think a lot of them do it to avoid some of the prohibited transaction issues that are out there that we kind of seem to all ignore. [34:19] Speaker F: You know, I just realized tpas are never going to get sued because we have no money. Yeah, right. [34:28] Chad: You know what's funny is I always [34:30] Mark: happens when you don't. [34:31] Justin: You can say that when the owner has four Ferraris or Lambo, Sorry, there [34:34] Chad: is that part of those contracts. I also think, though, that there's this, which we've talked about a while ago. It's been a while since we discussed it, but where they're very clear in their contracts about what they will be responsible for and then other things that they won't be. And that's where it gets weird, is like, you hear the term 316 and they'll. And I'm going to say that, like, there's a firm that's being honest, that's saying, look, we'll be responsible for this stuff, but it's only going to be [35:01] JD: this, this, and this. [35:03] Chad: And the only reason we're going to [35:04] JD: be responsible for those things is if, under the condition you provide us data and do these things appropriately. [35:12] Chad: And I just want to reiterate for the audience one more time that not all 3 16s are the same thing. There's a lot of variation. [35:22] JD: And so when you see one for 500 bucks and one for 15 grand, [35:27] Chad: you need to dive into the details and figure out what are the differences between those two offerings. [35:32] David Donaldson: I mean, you know, there are things that you can do, and obviously there's things that you just can't do. I mean, I think it's being extremely, extremely transparent in what you do and don't do. But the problem is, and we've taken over a few plans, that the expectations weren't set right. They weren't very clear. They were just sold on the idea that everything was going to be all fine, rosy, and they didn't have to do anything anymore. And then when push came to shove and a problem happened. Oh, well, let me show you your contract where it says that we don't do that. You know, and I think a lot of times we try to make it so sexy to sell it, but in reality, it doesn't come through like it should. [36:17] Speaker F: Right. [36:17] David Donaldson: People have just really bad expectations on what they're getting. And I think people are being a little bit of snowballed a little bit too with what these three 16s can and can't do for sure. I mean, why not offer full payroll integration? I mean, if you're going to be in the seat of a plan administrator. Right, because that's how I describe it. We're stepping into the shoes of the employer as the plan administrator. And so why won't you have responsibility over that payroll integration whether you do it or supervise it? Right. Because that's what the employer would do. [36:51] Chad: I think that's definitely the one of the steps along the path to a greater 316 is grabbing control of the payroll. And I think as much as I hate them, that's where a lot of the disruptors see that there are big differences between them and kind of legacy industry. But there's still details in that that you need to look at. Like, and indemnifications around that. Where sure, maybe they got 360, you know, payroll feed, but they're still not going to look over things and audit things and make sure that things are done correctly. [37:24] JD: Someone let us know through a message that we had forgotten to do the beer of the episode. And they're right. [37:30] Mark: It's all on you, J.D. i was going to let that go. [37:34] JD: Justin, what's your beer of the episode? [37:36] Justin: We're really cutting this off right now, huh? [37:38] Mark: Yeah. [37:39] JD: What's the beer of the episode, Justin? [37:41] Justin: Well, the beer of the episode is Golden Road. It's right around the corner from my house. That's why I chose it. 10 hop hazy IPA. It's got over 10 hops from all over the world, from Australia to New Zealand. And it's big, juicy, and full of flavor. Ten signature hops, one smooth ride. [37:59] JD: And how many robes do you give it? [38:02] Justin: I get. [38:03] Mark: I definitely said it. I just didn't hit it in time. [38:06] Justin: I give it 8.2 robes, 8.2 rubs. [38:13] Chad: Very nice. [38:13] Justin: Yeah, I like this one a lot. I haven't had it before. [38:16] JD: So I would like to shift. [38:20] Chad: Yes. [38:20] Mark: Brandon. Yes. [38:21] Justin: Real quick before. [38:21] Speaker F: I feel like acro sin needs to start in the very beginning of the [38:26] Mark: show because I've always said that. Dude. [38:29] Speaker F: Yes, I'm with. I'm now totally. [38:32] Justin: Guys, my intros to be shorter acro [38:35] Speaker F: from now on, acro sin starts 4:30. [38:39] Justin: At 4:30. Okay, that's fine. I want to JD before we transition, I want to get to the Q&A. That Hackler sent in there. [38:48] David Donaldson: God damn it. [38:48] Justin: How can you be a 316 if you cannot make contributions? [38:53] Chad: Sorry. How can you be a three? [38:55] Justin: How can you be 316 if you cannot make the contributions? [39:00] Chad: Off the riff. Oh, I was gonna reel it to David. [39:03] Mark: David. That's. David. [39:06] David Donaldson: All 316 is a. Like what, two sentences? And the definitions of the Employee Retirement income security act, 1970. [39:14] Mark: Right. [39:15] Justin: It's. [39:15] David Donaldson: It's two sentences. So really, even 3:38, 321. They're simply definition sections. And so really, what is that definition? [39:25] Mark: Right. [39:26] David Donaldson: Well, the plan document is going to articulate what a plan administrator's role is. And so what. What in that plan document that's assigned to the plan administrator are you going to be taking over? Right. You don't have to do payroll integration. You don't have to sign the 5,500, but at least be upfront about what you do and you don't do. Right. Back to where we get into the slippery slope of limited scope versus full scope. Right? Should just go through somebody's plan document and just highlight everything that a plan administrator is responsible to do and then see if that third party does those things. [40:04] JD: I don't. [40:05] Chad: It's so funny. Hackler said, not you, J.D. as I was about to answer it. And I loved when he said that to me. It warmed my heart. I'm like, okay, Heckler, let's let the guy answer. But earlier, Hackler, you told you said in the chat bar, no duh. All three 16s are different. I added the no duh. Heckler, this show's not for all experts. There are rookie advisors tuning in on the recorded version that want to learn some shit. So when the. When the subject matter goes down a little bit, just hang in there a little bit, buddy. Have a sip of your beer and let's explain some of the stuff to the rookies. [40:42] JD: David. [40:43] David Donaldson: Yo. [40:44] JD: I want to bring up something that you brought to my attention. I forwarded it to the boys and they thought I was a genius and I somehow found it. But it's this letter from [40:59] Mark: you didn't find way to give from Congress. Yeah. David, he did not tell us that [41:05] JD: you found this to Secretary Walsh. Brandon, if you please could pull that thing up. It'd be good for people to see I'm not just making this up [41:14] Justin: here right now or. [41:15] David Donaldson: No. [41:16] JD: And I'm going to read from this letter which talks about pooled employer plans. It's dated September 23rd of 2021. And I'll let you know who signs at the end of it here? And David, you can chime in on this, but a couple things, and it's just a page and a half and it talks about, hey, in 2019, Congress [41:38] Chad: passed the Setting Every Community up for for Retirement enhancement Act of 2019, blah, [41:45] JD: blah, blah, blah, blah. And it went on and said, this provision, which went into effect this year, enables small employers to achieve economies of scale available to large employers, thus reducing and expanding coverage among all small employers. [42:00] Chad: I want to reiterate that in that [42:01] JD: sentence they're saying exactly what I've been telling you all for two years. [42:04] Chad: And I know it's not rocket science, [42:06] JD: which is when government put pooled employer plans in place, the number one reason why they did it was because they were convinced that this economies of scale thing was real. And so I just want to reiterate that to you. They go on further and their bigger concern with it, that was just a side act. Their bigger concern in this letter is this up on the screen here. Specifically, our concern is that some pooled employer plans are being set up such that the plan. Well, you all can read, that's pretty big. [42:41] Mark: I cannot. [42:42] Chad: Their concern is that pooled plan providers are acting as the record keeper, the third party administrator, the 316. In some cases they have even influence over who's the 338 or who's. Who's the custodian and this and that. [43:04] JD: And this is an official freaking letter. David, go ahead, I'm talking. [43:08] David Donaldson: It kills me, right? I mean, we're in this world where I believe there's a lot of people that just ignore the prohibited transaction rule. Right? I mean it's very clear under 406 what a prohibited transaction is and then under 314 who a party of interest is. And it's not that hard to read. And I'm just waiting for the shoe to drop. [43:30] Mark: That's a lot of jargon in there. Not going to say, but you know, [43:34] David Donaldson: listen, give you an idea. I'm not going to tell you who it was, but I was offered to be on a platform for a pooled employer problem. [43:46] Mark: But like that, you said it earlier, man. [43:50] David Donaldson: They asked me for ten grand a month to be on the platform for marketing. [43:55] Mark: For you to pay that. [43:57] David Donaldson: Yeah, for me to be pay 10 grand. [44:00] Justin: They're on. Yeah. [44:01] David Donaldson: No, they want me to pay them 10 grand. Oh, fuck that. To just be on their platform and then whatever revenue we generate would offset that $10,000 per month. [44:13] Speaker F: Right. [44:14] David Donaldson: And guess what? [44:16] Chad: What? [44:16] David Donaldson: That pooled employer Problem hasn't done jack shit yet. So I'd have been just throwing out cash at him. Right. Which also is a pretty big transaction. Right. But yeah, I don't understand shit that goes on. [44:32] JD: It's just Mark, you sent me and I don't know how you got it. I mean, maybe you want to share if there's any exciting news of this, [44:39] Chad: but you sent me a contract from. I don't know if it was a prospect. Yeah, I don't know if it was a prospect of yours or advisor had shared with you. [44:47] JD: And I won't drop the name right now, although maybe I will in the after show of a, of a vendor. And so I gotta look at their pooled employer plan contract because Mark has [44:58] Chad: sent it along to me and there's [45:00] JD: a, there's a section of it. [45:02] Chad: You guys can't see that there, but [45:04] JD: there's a section of it that defines these different roles. Trustee, Record Keeper, Third Party Administrator, Custodian, etc. [45:14] Chad: Etc. [45:15] JD: And in this particular contract, the vendor that's offering it is the record keeper. They are the third party administrator. They are the 316. And you ready for it? They are the PPP. [45:30] Chad: Oh, that's a. There are the pooled plan provider. I'll drink for that. [45:33] Mark: P3 dog. P3. That's okay. [45:36] Chad: I think we determined that that was not okay. It is okay. [45:38] Justin: No. [45:39] JD: Okay, so there are okay things. Let me read from you. [45:43] Mark: That's not okay. [45:44] Chad: I didn't think so. [45:46] JD: Let me read from you. [45:48] David Donaldson: Keep it all in the family. [45:49] JD: Right, Right below where they describe all those things in the contract. It says, and I quote, the P3, the pool plan provider. [46:00] Justin: You could say P3. [46:03] JD: Okay, I'm moving on. The pooled plan provider is not obligated to make any of the above delegations. That is the third party administrator, the 316, the record keeper, because they're the pooled plan provider to the extent that one or more of its related companies is qualified to perform any of the tasks outlined, the determination does not delegate a task to another service provider or terminate that service provider for having the pool plan provider or its affiliates perform such function. Fancy lawyer language. That's basically saying you can't hold us responsible for the vendors that we choose as your pooled plan provider. It's in the fucking contract. It's basically their attorneys going, let's protect you. So if someone says there's a conflict of interest here, we can go to the contract and say we told you so. Like which to me combine that with that letter from Congress, and my mind is. Is fucking melting is what's happening. [47:07] Chad: So hopefully we'll see the shit. [47:09] David Donaldson: Yeah, I got one for you. So we started what we call the pooled Employer Plan Exchange, and we thought it'd be a great idea if we would go in and we would do due diligence on these and then render an opinion for an expert. Right. Do you know how many. You know how many have signed up? [47:25] Mark: 3. [47:26] David Donaldson: Goose egg. Nobody. Right? Because you don't want a DOL investigator to look through your. [47:35] JD: That's your. That's your Achilles heel, bro. Department of Labor. Yeah, I just took this. Hold on to me. That's nuts. It's absolutely nuts. And we've been talking about for a long time, but again, two summaries from that letter. The one which is the bigger story, which is we really have to look out for conflicts of interest. So much so that Congress has been saying, whoa, someone tapped the brakes on this. Like, the industry is jumping in and taking advantage of this legislation, and we need to enforce this somehow or come up with better rules. Number two, in the first paragraph, they [48:15] Chad: said the reason they put this shit in place was because of economies of scale. [48:21] JD: I. I wonder what the government would [48:23] Chad: think if I stood in front of Congress. That would be a funny sight. [48:27] JD: And I showed them you wouldn't get in the door. And I showed them that there was [48:34] Chad: no such thing as economies of scale [48:36] JD: and that all these pooled employer plans were basically the same price as regular 401k plans, if not more, because they're premium services. I think Congress should be like, what the fuck? [48:47] Chad: That's not what they told us was happening. [48:50] David Donaldson: So anyways, here, I got a good one for you. I had a guy pitch me on one, and he said. He said, well, you can't get in trouble with the Department of Labor because. Or IRS because. Guess why there's a. [49:02] JD: No, finish your thought. [49:06] David Donaldson: Right? There's a no bad apple rule. So you can't. It absolves you. And I'm like, well, you know that. That one bad apple rule only has to do with planned disqualification. And he's out there preaching the choir that, hey, look, that's interesting. One plan can't get the other plan in trouble, but here's a guy that doesn't understand the regs. Yeah. [49:24] Chad: The whole plan can get fucking sued for sure. [49:27] JD: And Schlichter's. [49:28] David Donaldson: Let's take it a step further. As an investigator. I go in to one of these employers and I find out there's been a lot of mistakes from the pool plan providers. Now how easy it for me to open up another 30 investigations. The DOL is always looking for low hanging fruit. So now because [49:49] Justin: he had it for. [49:50] JD: He's winning, right? He's totally winning. [49:52] Mark: Right, Brandon? Let's see the. [49:53] Justin: The count. [49:54] Mark: There we go. [49:54] David Donaldson: Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, I'm killing it. [49:57] Mark: I do have one by the way. [49:59] David Donaldson: So that's the reality, right? I mean, [50:06] JD: Acro sin's so loud you [50:07] Chad: can't even continue talking. [50:09] Mark: Sorry. [50:10] JD: I don't even know if I understood Diane more from the chat bar. [50:14] Chad: I love you. Oh, she sent it just to us. [50:17] Justin: Dan, you gotta talk to everyone. [50:19] Chad: Say it to everyone. [50:20] JD: Send it to everyone. But she's saying if JD goes in front of Congress, Brandon should come so he can do graphics in the text. That would be a big help. [50:28] David Donaldson: Bring your cold beer and. [50:29] JD: Yeah, that'd be awesome, huh? No, no, no, it's. We're laughing, but this is serious stuff. [50:38] Chad: And now. [50:38] Mark: So again, I'm, I'm not the, the government expert here, obviously. That letter, J.D. again, I didn't look at it when you sent it. The date exactly, but you said September last year. Okay, so now, now I'm like a little bit weary on everything because I'm [50:58] Justin: like, oh, saying [51:03] Mark: keep going. [51:03] JD: So. [51:04] Mark: Okay, sorry, I don't interrupt you. And so I'm like, that was months ago. So the letter gets written. How do people know about this? Obviously it's got no press and it's getting covered up. Like, where's David? [51:17] JD: I'm about to go to you. Hang on, I'm about to go to you. Mark, two things. One, government works slow. But two, but two, I had the same question of you, which is, David, [51:29] Chad: no one talked about this. Where was it? It looks like it gets snuffed out or something. [51:33] JD: Are those four people? People? [51:34] Mark: The four people that voted against the new act that just passed by? [51:40] David Donaldson: Email me and I'll send it to you. How about that? You can find me on my website. But yeah, it's ridiculous that this isn't running rampid through the industry. Right. It's just one of those things they shove under the rug and let's just. Hopefully it doesn't. [51:53] JD: It's in the same place, Mark, as Biden's laptop or whatever that is [52:00] David Donaldson: with Hillary Clinton's emails. [52:02] JD: Right, let's. I don't want to, I don't want to talk about the Oscars. [52:09] Chad: I don't want to hear your opinion [52:11] JD: of who was right and who was wrong. I Don't want any updates from the news that you've heard. I simply. [52:18] Justin: You cannot say that after that thread that we had for hours and days. [52:23] JD: So. Great point, Justin. We had a phenomenal thread. And this is our group chat, everybody. Our group text. And what ended up happening late night at the Oscars was a bunch of memes going back and forth between the retireholics. What I want to do tonight before we close out is share many of those memes that went through, and we'll just. I don't know, we'll try to take it one at a time and just, you know, maybe in the audience, you can vote them 0 to 10. [52:56] Mark: Okay. [52:57] JD: I guess if it's confusing, you could explain it. You're not really supposed to explain memes, are you, Mark? That. [53:03] Mark: That one is more Nashville, round one last year. Not this. This year was different. [53:08] JD: You. The roles were reversed this year. Chad and I, you were Will Smith and Nashville was. Was Chris Rock. [53:17] Mark: Yes. [53:17] JD: Okay, well, there's one. [53:19] Chad: Yes. [53:19] JD: You guys can give it a 0 to 10 or you can go lamer game. That was a fun little Nash one. Let's do another one, Brandon. By the way, Brandon told me he didn't want to do this bit, and I told him, I don't care. We're gonna do it. [53:29] Mark: I would see the dancing videos. [53:32] JD: Here we go. It would be better if we had an audience that would laugh. So when you see them, just pretend like you haven't seen them before and laugh. It's the Wheel of Ice sobriety. All right, Brandon, next one. Jim gives it a six. [53:45] Chad: Thursday nights, 4:30 tell. [53:47] Mark: We're not gonna use any of the ones that I made. This is great. [53:50] JD: Thank you, Martha. [53:51] Chad: With a. [53:52] JD: With a cry, happy smiley face, whatever that's called. Emoji. [53:55] Chad: I like that. [53:56] JD: Will gets us a 4 because Will's in a bad mood tonight. Here's a good one. Against the old pooled employer plans. Those motherfuckers. JD says 10. Yes. I'm calling Samson Sampo for now on. That's my nickname for him. I don't know. [54:14] Justin: Gotta be Samsonite. [54:16] JD: Samson. [54:16] Chad: Oh, I like that. [54:17] JD: Shamanda and a good retireholic show. It's been a while since Shamanda. Let me know if Shimanda should come back. Everybody. I feel like maybe not. I don't know. It's. [54:30] Chad: Are they here? [54:33] JD: Acro sent this. Played out 100%, Brandon. 100%. I made this one. [54:43] David Donaldson: Hey, look, I had only a couple days to get ready for this show, so I had to like you know. [54:49] Chad: Okay. [54:50] JD: Department of Labor. [54:51] Chad: Okay. [54:51] JD: Department of Labor. [54:52] Mark: Hey, David. [54:54] David Donaldson: What? [54:54] Mark: Can I ask you about your ninja shirt? [54:58] Justin: Oh, you weren't here for this. [55:00] David Donaldson: You weren't here for this. [55:01] Justin: He wasn't. [55:05] Mark: I had to do at least once. [55:07] JD: We've got more of these. I apologize to everyone that tuned in for the show two weeks ago after my four hour surf session. Energy was low. I know. We've got more, Brandon. [55:19] Chad: We have to have more. [55:22] Mark: There we. [55:22] JD: There you go. Hackler. [55:24] Chad: He's probably already seen that one. This is true Hackler's laugh. [55:32] Mark: People are playing the lamer game game. While this is on. This is good. [55:37] JD: We're just kidding, Shannon. There will. There will be another Shamanda show. There will be totally be another. [55:43] Justin: Yeah. [55:43] Mark: What could it be? Can it be all three? Including Katie? [55:47] JD: Now this is probably my favorite that came up in the night. But you'd have to be an insider to really get this one. Jim's giving it a nine. [55:56] Speaker F: I'm sorry. Katie is part of Shabana now. [55:59] Mark: Yeah. There's three of them. [56:02] Speaker F: Yeah, they're up. [56:04] JD: Well, Shannon's a different firm, but we [56:07] Chad: could make a like a three headed monster for that. [56:12] JD: Oh, what do you call the three headed monster? [56:15] Justin: Well, you can't call it Shamanda anymore. It's got to be something else. [56:20] JD: Is that it, Brandon? [56:20] Mark: Anyways. Are we. [56:23] Justin: Yeah. [56:23] Mark: You're going here. [56:24] Justin: Huh? [56:24] JD: I think we're done. [56:25] Mark: Oh, valuable content. [56:28] JD: Is there another one? That it? I think Mark did this one. That was very nerdy of you, Mark. [56:35] Mark: Super. [56:36] JD: Hold on. [56:37] Mark: I wanted to. I wanted to get chat. [56:38] JD: There you go. That's a good one. We did a lot of these. You can tell we were having a fun night. Hackler gives Melord a 10. Of course he does. That hits close to home for him. [56:56] Speaker F: Malort's 10 for anyone who's drank Malort. [57:01] JD: Wait, Sam's Samsonite is saying JD is Smith. This show is. I think that's saying I the show up or something. [57:13] Mark: I don't know if that's good or bad. [57:14] JD: Oh, I did it up because I already forgot. [57:17] Chad: Chap. [57:17] JD: Our champion. You vote for Chat park champion Justin now. And then you can go. You can leave. [57:22] Justin: Too many. There's too many good choices. I gotta process this right now. [57:25] JD: Okay. You. You say that every week. [57:27] Chad: I ask you. [57:28] JD: You say go next. [57:29] Mark: Cool. [57:29] Justin: As Mark. Five weeks in a row. [57:31] JD: Cat bar champion. [57:33] Mark: Jeez, you're yelling in my ear. [57:35] Justin: I'm vote for Katie. [57:38] JD: Katie Boyer. Okay, Katie Boyer, [57:42] Mark: who had the really good joke earlier. I'm trying to scroll up to figure [57:46] David Donaldson: out who that was. [57:46] JD: Bro. [57:47] Justin: So many good, good ones tonight. [57:51] Mark: No. What was that? Good one. [57:54] JD: While you pontificate, I'm gonna go with the entire audience and go Kush. [57:59] Mark: Oh, sorry. That's what I was going for. [58:01] JD: Cushion Cater. David, your vote for chapter. [58:04] David Donaldson: I'm going to go grants. [58:07] JD: Grants, Jason. [58:09] Mark: Well, no, I changed my. I changed my. I changed my vote to Jim Sampson because he just said fuck Hackler. And I just like that. [58:19] JD: Samson Kush, Katie. Jason Grant. Boom. Well done, David. Thank you for hanging out with us. Chad, thanks for not being here. Everyone, thanks for tuning in. And yeah, if you stick around for the after show, it'll basically just be me fucking drooling on myself, I guess. I don't know, maybe David will stick around. Let's see who wins. [58:51] Chad: Yeah. Do you guys agree with Brandon or [58:56] JD: JD in the chat bar? Should we have done the Oscars memes or just never shown you those? Let me know. J.D. [59:02] Chad: or Brandon. [59:03] JD: You will. Will's been so mean tonight. [59:08] Mark: Yeah, he has been. Not gonna lie. [59:10] JD: It looks like Kush is going to get a deserved win. Yeah, it's been a little while, but he's one of those top ranked kind of guys who deserves it. Well done, Kush. Let me know what mug you want. I've got your address. We're good to go. [59:26] Mark: I can't believe how many people's addresses you have. [59:28] Justin: Has anyone gotten all of them yet? [59:31] JD: Well, apparently the Hackler crew has gotten them. [59:34] Chad: Right. [59:35] JD: So I need to. I need to get official confirmation on that and once I. Because I've got some stats to know that they've shared, but I'm thinking maybe Hackler's gonna tell me I was drunk one night in Nashville and I ha handed him one that I didn't know. Okay, well, let's drunk and assume that's the case any. So anyways, thank you, everyone. Justin, go play hockey. [59:59] Chad: Thank you. [1:00:00] JD: Go take care of your sick family, David. Enjoy Hawaii. Taking off tomorrow. Is that right? And to all of you out there, [1:00:12] David Donaldson: Oahu, my hometown. [1:00:15] JD: Yeah, he's born and raised, bro. Born and raised. We love you, everybody. Hackler, I even love you. And you're being mean and nasty. I think you're just upset because you only had four beers left and it starts to get on your nerves. [1:00:30] Chad: But I still love to have a. [1:00:32] Justin: We need to bring Ackler in. We need to see. We haven't seen that in a while. [1:00:35] JD: And Samsonite has come up with a new retireholic sign off. Adios. All right. Play us some music, Brandon. [1:00:56] Chad: Sharing my experiences with y' all have [1:00:58] JD: a place you never imagine. When I was out at home and I see a girl, I was like, girl, I'm straight up to it. [1:01:03] Chad: I'm like, hey, girl, how you doing? [1:04:22] JD: Well done, Kitty Boyer. Well done. Which I guess I'm gonna have to [1:04:28] Chad: announce next week that Katie went from Pension Pro to Pinnacle Plan Design. We're going to announce that next week [1:04:36] JD: when it's yes, because I blew that today. [1:04:39] Chad: So well done for you, Katie. They're lucky to have you. You're going to do great things over there, just like you did great things on that stage.