Sheltering in Place: 30 Years of 401(k) Evolution

[0:00] Chad: Purple tunnel. You need a voice talk, Shannon. You need to be able to voice text to us. All right, Bea's got us streaming now. [0:09] Justin: All right, let's do it. [0:13] JD: Let's start the show. Hey, what's going on, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Retireholics. I was planning to just kind of like freestyle a song right now as an intro, but then I got a little cold feet right when that music started ending. So maybe next time I'll freestyle a song Today, just a regular intro to Retireaholics. Thanks everyone for tuning in. We appreciate it. We love you, you little 401k freaks. Let's get right to our guest. I'm going to go straight into an intro. It was maybe 14, 15 years ago. I was working with a dude up in your guys territory, Brent Chapman, and he was a wholesaler. And we were working on a seminar for an advisor that he's gonna invite plan sponsors to. And Chappie said to me, hey, we're gonna bring in our national guy. Like, we're gonna bring in this Tom Foster dude. He is like the cream of the crop when it comes to professional speakers. And so this is just going to be a big deal. And Brent really impressed me. Like, oh, geez, wow. We've got this really fancy guy flying into town to do this presentation. So it gets closer to the event, and I forget where it was, but I just remember, like walking in nervous, like, oh, we've got this big time speaker. And I was a little early in my career and everything lined up. Like, I remember there being like a. Like a bell captain guy at the front of the hotel who had the matching hat with the jacket. And he opened the doors for me, and I went inside, made my way to the conference room. And it had all this fancy molding around the ceilings. And the light was dimmed just right. And I felt nervous in my stomach because I looked over and here was Tom in this, like, fancy suit. I think he had, like, little gold things on his deal. And also I left this out, but I was told that he needed three things for this presentation and only three things. Cause I was organizing it all. He wanted one of those flip charts if I'm getting it right, you know, Chad, the old school. [2:50] Chad: Yeah. Oh, yeah. The old paper over. [2:52] JD: And then he wanted, like. And I might be botching this, but he wanted like a blue and a black pen. But they needed to be like, brand new, you know, out of the fucking box. [3:01] Justin: What year was this? [3:03] JD: Huh? [3:03] Justin: What year was this? [3:04] JD: It was like 1944 or something like that. That's exactly how it felt, Jess. [3:11] Tom Foster: That was my embryonic stage. [3:12] JD: Very proper and professional. So anyways, we got him all those things. I sat down in the audience and from the bottom of my heart, I saw a man give a presentation that was equally professional as it was charismatic. He brought some really cool humor to it. He brought kind of this confidence that I hadn't seen before. And probably more important than all of that in speaking to this plan sponsor audience. He made, and people say this all the time, but he made the complex very easy to understand. But I had never seen it done like this. And so if you don't know if you're tuning in and you don't know who Tom Foster is, he is all the things I mentioned before, he's like this big time national speaker. I think in 2019, I saw something where he'd done like 195 speaking gigs across the country. He's literally been doing this for decades, flying around the country and speaking at big time events. I will also, and I'll finish it with this after it all went down. I don't know if he remembers this, I barely do. But I had the pleasure in this. Just in this 1940s hotel with the molding to go sit at a bar and like drink something fancy and dark like bourbon or something and have conversations with him about the industry. And it was just a moment that I remember my career. I hope that wasn't too soppy or weird or whatever. [4:44] Chad: That was the slowest intro ever, JD but [4:49] JD: welcome to the show, Tom Foster. [4:52] Tom Foster: Thank you. Hey, J.D. before we start, I have to congratulate you guys. You know, one of the things, when I was in law school, I had this very charismatic professor and he taught of all subjects, torts. You know what a tort is? Not cherry or apple. A tort is a civil wrong. And this course was boring as heck. But the professor had a way of presenting that really, really engulfed my enthusiasm. And I would have talked to him afterwards and I said, you know, Professor, I really, really like the way that you watch the audience and when you feel you're losing the audience, you interject humor, you interject stories. And he's looked at me and says, you know, Tom, whenever you present, I don't care whether it's to a jury, I don't care towards a group of people, peers, how big the conference is. Make learning fun. And you guys have done just that. You have made learning fun. And I congratulate you guys for doing that. You're really performing A service for the industry that is sadly lacking in a lot of areas. So congratulations, guys, for what you're doing. [5:46] JD: You see how that works? You see how that works? Chad, give him something nice. [5:49] Chad: It gives you something nice. [5:51] JD: I give him compliments, I get him back. Let's talk about the things we hate about each other Next. [5:56] Justin: Yes, you have. [5:58] JD: Here, let me. Let's do a little housekeeping. Housekeeping. [6:04] Chad: Housekeeping. [6:05] JD: I think you're sleeping. All right, make sure you're in gallery view. If you're tuning in for the first time, it's up in your left or your right or your something. Take your mouse, hover over it, get in gallery view so you can see all of us at the same time. We are for sure gonna have a chat bar champion. I'm gonna pay close attention to that this time. Do your best. [6:28] Chad: There's already some leaders. Jd, did you see Greg asked Alexa to play retireholics right when the show started? That was good. [6:37] JD: Make it funny, make it smart, make it interesting, you know, whatever. But go for that chat bar champion. But make sure that you are chatting to the panelists and attendees, and not just the panelists. And then prohibitive word. So I think you know how this goes. Tom, I'm about to name a word. If you say that word at any time during this show, you have to drink from your nasty drink. I do believe that Tom is a mature, respectable person. I believe he's just sipping on his nasty drink the whole night. And you wouldn't be the first to do that. [7:10] Tom Foster: You're holding my nasty drink in your hand right now. [7:12] JD: Oh, nice. Nice. That's what I'm drinking, too. [7:15] Tom Foster: Cheers. [7:16] Chad: I went back to Reposada tonight. [7:19] JD: Very good. I do believe Sal Tripote like, drinking through the whole show. Very good. What will the word be? Well, I went out and I listened to you on what I could find on YouTube and through the Internet, and I literally, like, took count of what word you said the most. And based on some of the topics we're going to talk about today, the word will be. We never used this word before, by the way. Never ever before. Industry. So if anyone says that word industry, you got to now you won't have to, Tom. When I do it. Only when you do it. [7:57] Tom Foster: Oh, I was just following along. [8:00] Chad: Yeah, but you can. [8:01] JD: Let's dive right in to topic number one. You have been in this 401k space for a very long time. Not to rip on your old age, but it's been decades, and I think that that allows us to Tap into what must be a very unique perspective. You've seen things, you've seen our 401k space evolve, change, consider new things. So let's start that conversation. I've got several follow up questions for you, but give me just a general vibe on how's it felt to go through the last 30 years or what have you plus and see these kind of ebbs and flows and give us your perspective on all that. [8:48] Tom Foster: Well, it's interesting when I started this business, by the way, J.D. just to put it in historical perspective, when I started in this business, the Dead Sea was just sick. So that gives you some idea. But when I started this business it was a much. [9:02] Chad: There's Mark. [9:04] Tom Foster: But when I started this business was a much simpler world. You know, it was primarily a DB world where the employer was bearing all the costs. You know, on the healthcare side it was again, the employer was bearing all the costs. And it was a very simple world. Then I watched it progress to where we are right now. And where we are right now is so far away from where we started. And you know, when I started this business, you know, being a tpa, that was back in the days when you had the 1/3 2/3 rule. Remember that when you're doing ADP testing, it was just a, it was just a world that was very simple. Employees didn't have a lot of the stress that they have today because today they're always worrying about how are my investments going, how are, you know, what's going to where my next paycheck going to come from. Back then it was the employer took care of it all and they knew that they started in day one and they finished 20 years later or 30 years later, they're going to X amount of dollars for the rest of their life. And wouldn't that be nice if we could have that environment again today? But you know, I watch it progress going from a, you know, from a DB world to a DC world to a now to a 401k world. And now I think in today's environment we're in a much more holistic environment where you know the buzzword in the industry and everybody uses. We're now in a financial, you know, a financial wellness environment. But it's, it's been a good ride. [10:10] JD: Don't say that now. I guess Mark's not here. We could talk about wellness a little bit later. Let me ask you, let me, let me ask you this. He said, someone's saying he's, he's, Somebody [10:22] Tom Foster: said, he said the. [10:23] JD: I Word, Peter Despair saying he said the I word. I don't know if I heard it. We'll have to check the tape. [10:29] Tom Foster: Hey, listen, I'm not, I'm not one to debate. There you go. [10:33] JD: I think Pete's a trustworthy source. Let me ask you this. When you have that type of history, I'm imagining you've seen lots of, I'm not going to call them trends. I mean, lots of moments where people in the check, swing, people in our business get worried about something that's coming down the pike or maybe get super excited about something that's coming down the pike, thinking that it's really going to change the whole landscape. I'll give an example. Our company started in the Silicon Valley and my father's told me many times that in the late 90s he heard all kinds of chatter about, Look, TPAs are going to go down. They're not going to be third party administrators in the future because the Internet's going to take over and technology is going to take over. And so he reminds me of things like that when I worry about the future. Something has happened. He's like, look, I've seen it before. We've seen it a million times. So let's start on the negative side. Do you agree with that concept? Have you seen times in our biz where people worry about something and it never really comes to fruition? [11:39] Tom Foster: There's no, there's no question about it. I mean, look at two ik, you know, look at that. We all worried about that, right? Yeah, definitely. I've seen that throughout the course of my career. And I think a lot of it is, you know, much ado about nothing. And I think people like yourselves, like your father, he's a good example of it, he anticipated this was going to happen, but he worked his way through it and, you know, became successful. I assume, correct? [12:02] JD: Yeah, for sure. [12:03] Tom Foster: I mean, yeah. Chad, go ahead. [12:06] JD: Go ahead, Tom. No guest, finish your thought. [12:09] Tom Foster: Okay. And I think a lot of it has to do with our political environment, you know, and what's going to happen from a legislative and regulatory standpoint. And that also changes a lot of ideas about what we're going to do and the service, the service groups that we're in. [12:24] JD: He's too good at this. Chad, I gotta think. Don't, Can't. Even in our short career, can't you, me and Justin say when 408B2 and 404A5 were coming down, it was like, oh, God, this is gonna change the world. You know, it's Gonna drive everything down. Super low cost. And I guess we have seen some of that in the mid to up market, but in our market I don't think we've seen a ton of that. And that was all much ado about nothing in a, in a weird way, wasn't it? [12:53] Chad: Well, it wasn't much to do about nothing because it created some good disclosure and transparency. It got most providers to get into the institutional share class space in the micro market section. So it created a lot of good. But there were many folks and, and rightfully so probably that were overcharging and hiding those costs inside the investment expense on larger plans and that was addressed and cleaned up. But 482 and 404 A5 I don't think were industry changers. [13:24] Tom Foster: Dang. [13:25] Chad: Said it on my. They weren't big changers. They weren't expected to in my mind change the record keeping space or the TPA space or the advisor space. What they were projected to do is create additional work and come up with some transparency. That was accomplished. What I think you're Getting more after JD is with changes to what could be PEPs, what could be maps, what could be these tech based companies coming out and trying to say you don't need to pay asset charges for record keeping fees. We're going to charge $1,000 a year and do all the record keeping work. And you're seeing a lot of big, big changes. And will those come to fruition or not? I don't. Especially the tech space on the record keeping side. I don't think so. [14:12] JD: What I'm, what I'm trying to ask of Tom is in all of his experience when it comes to advisors running their businesses, do you think that many of them have made changes based on things they saw coming ahead? And have you seen sometimes those changes be negative? You know, like, like Chad's saying, maybe someone now, I'm trying to help someone now who might, to use Chad's example, look at Pepsi and think, okay, I've got to set up a PEP because it's in the headlines and, and could they look back a year from now, two years from now and go, shit, that was a lot of wasted time and energy that had zero ROI on it. And I have to think that we've seen that in past years for advisors who make mistakes in how they run their business. [14:57] Tom Foster: Oh yeah, no matter what the change is, I think we all advisers always feel, well, I've got to live up to that change when maybe they don't have to see. I think that's been a trend throughout our groups of checks discussions. I didn't go all the way. [15:10] JD: No, you're good. [15:11] Tom Foster: So. And I think you'll continue to see that. Look what's happening with Reg Bi. I mean, a lot of people are trying to adjust to that. I agree with the MEPs and the PEPs and all that. They're going to try to adjust to it. And the other thing I think that's really becoming an issue today is robo advisors versus the regular advisors. And I don't know what are your thoughts on that? Because I have a distinct opinion about that. [15:32] JD: Listen, Tom, I'm the host of this fucking show, and just because you and I talked that we want to talk a little about robos, I got that planned later in the show. All right? So stop jumping off the damn path. I'll lead this sucker. [15:46] Chad: See, that's why he doesn't tell us what we're going to talk about. [15:49] Justin: Well, maybe he shared that if we wouldn't have to worry about that. [15:52] Chad: Yeah. [15:53] Tom Foster: Okay. [15:56] JD: How about Tom Condren, Mr. Three panel suit? Three piece suit. [16:02] Justin: Three panel suit. Three piece. [16:03] JD: So three piece suit says, haven't we all been more reactive than proactive? And so he's saying, as an industry, we typically don't jump out ahead and we just wait and react. I think that's a fair statement. So let me go the other side of the coin. [16:18] Chad: Yeah, that was j. [16:19] JD: Can we look. Can we look back in history. Oh, shit. Okay. Can we look back in history and see examples where advisors were willing to not stick to the norm and see that new trend, see it proactively, jump on it, change their business model and reap the rewards? [16:39] Justin: Well, yeah, I mean, recently, the fiduciary rule, I mean, there was. Those RAs were jumping on that, saying, hey, I'm already a fiduciary, you know, work with me, rather than having to [16:48] Chad: work with somebody who wasn't willing to [16:50] Justin: take on that responsibility beforehand? [16:54] Tom Foster: Yeah, but I do think that that is the case, you know, and in my experience, in all these years that I've been in this business, I see that quite a bit that people are reactionary rather than proactive. And I think in order for us to be successful in today's environment, I think we have to be more proactive. A lot of times advisors will wait to see what the other person is going to do and say, well, if they've done it, we've got to do it as well. So, yeah, I think that's a I've seen that as a trend throughout history. [17:20] JD: It's scary to be proactive. [17:22] Chad: I'll add one too that I've seen recently and in my short time, which is the cannabis space advisors that jumped in head first and learned the cannabis space and who would play in it, how to help clients. Oh, man, they thrived. They are thriving. [17:38] JD: Brandon thinks that's funny. When you. Chad, just to clarify, when you say advisors that jumped in the cannabis space, you're not referring to ones that thought they do better work when they're stoned, right? [17:49] Chad: No, no. Ones that knew they would do better work. [17:53] Justin: What's interesting about that though, too, is there's quite a few out there who couldn't get into it because of their bds. And we had actually had little plans, like advisors brought me opportunities, and then I had to proceed without them because their BD wouldn't let them do it. [18:07] JD: Good point. Two things. Tony kind of said that earlier. Sand. Yeah, but don't forget about compliance. That could stop a little of your entrepreneurial momentum. Right, the compliance department. And then, sure. Shannon S. Words. She's talking about Kirsten Curry, who's. Who's a cannabis rock star when it comes to the rules and regs and all that kind of stuff. So look her up, if you haven't already. Let me finish the subject with this one. Do you think. And this goes back to your history, Tom. [18:38] Tom Foster: Yeah. [18:38] JD: And I want the same opinions from you guys. Do you think that given the current modern world, technology, etcetera, you talked about robo advisors, are we gonna see potential trends and changes and things that people get excited about or scared about at a more rapid clip than we would typically see in the 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s? [19:02] Tom Foster: I think so. And I think the reason for that is because early on in my career, we didn't have the Internet like we have today. And, you know, information is shared so rapidly in today's environment that it's going to continue to grow very, very rapidly, quicker than we've ever seen it before in history because of the use of the Internet and because of the, you know, a lot of the millennials are taking over the, you know, running the businesses, and they want us, they want to stay competitive. It's a very, very competitive space out there, as you know. So, yeah, I think it's going to be much more rapid than we ever saw before. Lots of new ideas, lots of new changes, and even the definition of retirement. If I were to ask each one of you on the panel, how would you define retirement? Jd, what would you say? [19:40] JD: Why do I always feel like I. This is like trick question or something. You know, when these old guys ask you a question like that, it's like [19:46] Chad: they know the answer they want to get. [19:48] JD: Let me be honest, Let me be honest. How do I define retirement for me is when I don't have to take phone calls from Chad every day about some question about the, you know, some proposal he's got and I can just go surfing. Okay, Chad, how do you define retirement? [20:04] Tom Foster: Well, let me ask Justin. What would you say, Justin? [20:07] Justin: Kind of something similar to that. Have enough money to live the life I want to live, not ever have to work and do and be wherever I want to be. [20:14] Tom Foster: Well, you know, it was interesting somebody had asked me that question, so I gave a similar answer. But I actually looked it up with the definition in the dictionary and this is what it says. The action or fact of leaving one's job and ceasing to work. Okay, but the one I like is this one. Retirement, according to the dictionary means withdraw from one's position or occupation or from active working life. You can achieve retirement when you have a source of income that you do not have to be earned by working. Retirement and the term financial independence are often used interchangeably. How many people in today's environment fit that definition? [20:53] JD: I love that Erin hall says has a great little sound bite. She says retirement is when work is a choice. I love that, Erin, but maybe you should think about replacement, replacing it with the one that Tom just said. [21:07] Tom Foster: Yeah, and that's the other thing, you know, people, the concept of stop. I think when you talk about retirement, there's a concept of finality. Just think of how many people in today's world are continuing to work. Some people have to work because they have no other choice, they have no other source of income. And other people work because they enjoy what they do. And they can't take that, you know, they can't take that thrill of victory and the agony to feed away from themselves. So I think the whole redefinition of retirement and how we approach it and how we deal with it, both from an advisor, a TPA and a participant standpoint, is totally different. But it's going to continue to change [21:39] JD: rapidly and it doesn't just happen on its own. I feel like there's a role for the advisor to play. Right. So if you're looking at this new definition of retirement, and let's just say for sake of the conversation that that involves someone having some type of job, right, part time and Ideally, it's a job they really love and gives them satisfaction and what have you think like you're an old guy running a surf shop or something, you know. Yeah, but the advisor needs to be helping that participant prepare for that type of retirement, you know, 10, 15 years in advance. Right. They've got to. If they're going to buy some business when they reach age 70, that's the business they want, they need to be putting that money away. Or if they're going to develop or harness a skill that they had and get it to the point where they can use it in retirement to make money, they need to do that. Like there's a lot of planning that would need to take place and I would think that financial advisors could jump in and help with that type of counsel. [22:35] Chad: Right. J.D. let me give a quick two cents on your original question around new things popping up and at what frequency. Yeah, I think Tom hit it on the head in terms of we're all connected very closely and news travels quickly. So if someone's doing something, it's going to travel around the business quickly. That was a check swing. But here would be my thoughts. We are still the way this business, the retirement landscape actually changes is from the top down. It comes from the big dogs down. I'm not seeing too many that are emerging from the bottom that are able to really steer this ship one direction or the other. So if PEPs and MEPs are going to be a big thing of the future, who's going to adopt them? It's going to be the big players we saw this week. Principal's coming out with theirs, ADP is pushing theirs. Transamerica has theirs. My point being, if the changes are gonna happen, it's gonna be the big ships that are steering those changes. It's not gonna be the emerging small, you know, entrepreneur I think that's creating big industry shifts. [23:40] Tom Foster: Is that good news or bad news, Chad? [23:43] Chad: I think it's bad news because some [23:45] Tom Foster: of those small, some of those small shops, they have some great ideas. So why, you know, I know it's from the top down, but oftentimes to be successful, it should be from the bottom up. But you're absolutely correct that oftentimes doesn't happen. I don't think that's a great thing. [23:58] Chad: Tell me the last time you saw innovation happen from the top down? I mean, maybe one could say Facebook because they got big and then started changing things or Google got big and then made bigger changes. But in our world, never. The innovation doesn't come from the top down, it comes from the bottom up. And we need to empower those small groups to have a bigger say in this world. [24:18] JD: I would think this, this concept of redefining retirement and creating, you know, a methodology to help people prep for that in retirement job is something that could definitely come from the bottom up. But I agree with you, Chad, that the bigger things like the PEPS and that type of deal is probably a top down type of thing. Whether you agree with it or don't agree with it. All right, we're going to have some fun and I'm going to mix two together before I do that. Carl, I asked you in the chat, are you saying there's surf in Wisconsin right now? [24:51] Tom Foster: It's melting snow. [24:52] Justin: Not only the Malibu of the Midwest. [24:58] JD: I think it could be surf because Great Lakes or whatever, I don't know. Let's. Brandon, let's spin the wheel of ice. And this will be the last time I remind everyone. Tuning in. This wheel of ice is legit. It could definitely land on any one of us. It could land on. Justin's already drinking. [25:18] Chad: Get it out of the way, Justin. [25:20] JD: Justin has lost the last three or four times in a row, but it's been pure chance. Tom, you don't have to worry about this. You're not on the wheel here, but go ahead and spin that wheel of ice. [25:34] Chad: The wheel of ice. [25:35] JD: The wheel of ice. [25:40] Justin: I'm gonna regret that if it didn't fall on me. Son of a. [25:47] JD: Dustin, how do you feel now, you dumbass? [25:52] Chad: I'm gonna make Mark drink one too, because he narrowed the odds. I was more likely to lose tonight. [25:57] JD: Oh, sorry. I didn't really tell everyone unless you're here pre show that Mark's not here. But this is good a time zening because I'm about to try to play a little lamer game. Mark's father is in for a little surgery. Nothing to worry about. Not a date. Yeah, nothing big. But he just wanted to be there to pick him up, take care of him, so we gave him a pass. I am going to run the lamer game game. Although Mark will probably sue me for trademark infringement or something, but I'll take my chances. So, Tom, we're going to play a little game. It's called the lame game or game that's lame or who knows what it's called. It's proper to let the song play, right? I've never hosted this game before, so cut me some slack. I'm going to ask you some questions. You're going to determine Whether it's lame or lame or whether you're game on this type of thing. And I'm always going to go to you first and then we'll hit up the boys after you. So first lame or game question. Matching your tie with your pocket handkerchief. Are you lame or game with that concept? [27:07] Tom Foster: Game. [27:09] JD: He's super game. Tom's usually long winded, but he's going to go with the quick one answer this time. Chad, are you lame or game with matching? [27:18] Chad: Okay, I can see that Justin was calling me out, saying I didn't drink it. [27:21] Justin: No, I didn't see. I'm sorry, I didn't say you didn't. [27:24] Chad: Anyways, I mean, if you're going to wear it, you should match it. But I think wearing it is lame. But that was really a question. [27:32] JD: Wow. Well, you just took a real hard stab at our guest, Justin. [27:38] Justin: There's a certain level of class to it. I like it. [27:40] JD: Yeah. Does Mark answer his own questions? [27:44] Tom Foster: No. [27:46] Justin: This is your game, J.D. [27:48] JD: i'm. I'm game in that if you're gonna put a suit on, suit and tie go all the way, bro. Get cufflinks, go with a handkerchief. Shit. Tom, Condren that shit and go three piece. Like, I don't know about these. [28:01] Chad: For the pocket square. [28:03] Tom Foster: What about those buttons on your lip belt? [28:06] JD: I don't know about that. [28:07] Justin: Or the embroidered shirts with your initials. [28:10] JD: Sure, yeah, embroider that. Wear some dope, dope shoes. I'm all about that. All right, next one. Lame or game. But I'm just gonna. We've never done this before. Mark would be upset. I'm gonna do like a two piecer. So they're two in one. [28:23] Justin: I like it. [28:24] JD: Lame or game. The first one is flip charts. You know, flip charts at the old hotels back in the day. You do your presentation or at the same time, give me your opinion on PowerPoint presentations. Both of them. Flip charts, PowerPoint. Where do you stand? [28:43] Tom Foster: Well, from my perspective, you know, I'm old school. And the reason I always like flip charts is because flip charts never break down. We don't have any interference with, you know, bad connections. Always true. And I can react to the audience because when I talk to an audience, I ask them questions. I say, what would you like to hear about today? Too many speakers go into a presentation. They come up with a presentation. Here's what I think you want to hear today. I'm going to go through it. And oftentimes you're stuck to a presentation. How many times have you seen this happen? JD where you've got about 35 slides, you've got a half an hour, you get to a point where you've had questions from the audience, you've got 15 slides left, and what do you do? You talk faster and you completely lose the audience. Whereas in a flip chart, you control the flow. So I always say so that they'll be into me as soon as I walk in that audience. I want to hear what you have to say. I want to hear what you want to know. And I write those things down. I go through them one at a time. Because if you know your presentation well enough, you should be able to take it out of any order. So I'm old school. I mean, obviously now I have to use PowerPoints because that sort of a genre but oftentimes supplement it with a flip chart. So. [29:47] Justin: Okay, I'm good. [29:48] JD: I love that. Well, make up your mind. Is it gonna be one answer or is it gonna be one word answer? Is it gonna be a hundred word answer? Because I can't. [29:54] Tom Foster: Whatever you want. Whatever you want. Host. [29:56] JD: No, I agree with you. And I like the fact that I would also add to the point that if I'm in the audience, I get to watch the flip chart happen as it happens. So it's a little more exciting. But Chad, flip charts, PowerPoint. Chad, have you ever done a flip chart in your. [30:14] Chad: Actually, the only flip chart I have done was at a Tom Foster presentation at the American Century campus, and I had to present after him. And I was doing quokka versus traditional Safe harbor and I used your flip chart. That was the only time thinking back that I've ever used one. So I'm going to say between the two. It's going to be a PowerPoint for me. [30:34] JD: It doesn't have to be between the two. You're lame on flip chart and you're game on PowerPoint is what you're saying. [30:42] Chad: Yeah, Yeah. [30:43] JD: I like Brad. Brad says. Brad says. What about old school chalkboard? [30:50] Chad: Yeah, that's what Webb said. A transparency overhead projector. That's what I was talking about. [30:56] Justin: Justin, I was first against the flip chart, but after hearing Tom's explanation, I'm totally for it. And I. Shad's the master. I want to see you sell a plan with a flip chart. Did you just do it? Challenge you? [31:08] Chad: Absolutely. It's all right. [31:10] JD: That would be a fun bet we should make for the sales team where we force you to go in and do a point of sale and you got to do it with a flip chart and we send Mark in with one of the overhead slide projector things. I think that would be so funny. [31:25] Justin: Imagine if you lose a deal for the advisor. Oh God, that'd be terrible. [31:29] Tom Foster: Yeah, but think about this, Candy. But think about this. You go in to make a presentation to a group. You got an HR director, you got a chairman, you got all these different, all these different groups that are being represented. And you go in and you make a presentation. You're assuming they're all on the same, you're all the same ballgame. Right? They're all on the same page. Whereas I like to go around say, okay, as the chairman, what would you like to see as part of this plan? You write it down. [31:50] JD: When you say same page, you mean same page. Like no pun intended. [31:55] Tom Foster: No pun intended. And then you go, as you do your presentation, you check each one off and that impresses them. So hey, I challenge you to do it. [32:02] Chad: I like the challenge accepted. It's on. Buy a flip chart. [32:06] Justin: I'm going to say game abacus before he uses a flip chart. [32:12] JD: I'm just going to finish with. I think PowerPoint gets a double lame for me. And I'm not out there on the war front like you guys are these days, but I feel like to walk into a room right now and say, can I connect my computer to put up my PowerPoint to sell you on my idea? I just think is so ridiculous. But I'm sure it's still happening quite a bit. Yeah. Yes or no, Chad? Is it still happening out there? [32:37] Chad: I mean I haven't been in an in person meeting in 11 months or nine months. Yeah, yeah, it is. I mean and typically when I'm in that meeting, I'm not using it to go through the normal conversation, but I am using it when we get to the illustrations. And it's not necessarily that I need a PowerPoint, but I need something to where I can control what they're seeing to walk them through the tax efficiency. [32:58] JD: Yeah, some graphics. I hear you. I hear you. All right, next one lamer game. This is easy cheesy one. I should probably skip it, but I'm just go with it. Just give me quick answers, Mr. Clean, Clean Shaven heads. Are you into those lamer game? [33:15] Tom Foster: Let's take a look at it. Let's take a look at the three of us. What do you think our answer is going to be? [33:18] JD: I mostly want to hear from the audience and Tom Condren. If you talk about Prezi one more time, I'm going to reach through this screen. Screen and Grab you by the fucking neck. [33:27] Chad: I'm. Hey, by the way, JD in answering that I am lame for the clean shaven head like these two gentlemen have, because I have so many dents in my head from injuries over the years that there's no chance I could use a razor on this thing anymore. You can. [33:43] Justin: You just don't know. [33:44] Chad: Oh, Justin, you know how oddly shaped my head is just going to go [33:47] Justin: to the most round head I've ever seen? JD Wanted very precise answers here for this one. [33:56] JD: I'm game. I think it looks good. I think it looks good. I think I'm always impressed by Justin's. It looks like flawless. Like he could do a commercial for that kind of. Yeah. So I think it's a good look. It's far better than, like, old guys that try to hang on to some weird, like, halo hairdo or some God. [34:12] Justin: When I. When I look back at pictures of, like, pre 17, when I was trying to do that, what the fuck was I thinking? [34:17] JD: Wait, is my father in law on right now? [34:20] Chad: Yeah. [34:20] Justin: Yep. [34:23] Tom Foster: I can grow hair on my back, though. [34:24] JD: Or the dreaded comeover Tom. [34:26] Tom Foster: Yes, I did that for many years. [34:28] JD: This one's a serious one. And I tune in everyone out there because I think it's actual. It's a work thing. Like, it's something that you potentially could learn from. Are you lame or game on? And I'm not talking about getting blackout drunk or being an idiot and jumping up on a table at the conference and doing some kind of dance, but are you lame or game with getting a little tipsy with your work partners, your strategic partners? You know, I'm not talking clients, necessarily, or prospects, but people that you work with having, you know, one or two or three more than you probably should have. But is it good? Do you connect? Is it bad because you're making an idiot of yourself? Lame or game? We start with you tomorrow. [35:17] Tom Foster: I think it's game if you know your audience. Okay? If it's. It's work people, you know what they're. What they're like. They know that you. They know you. You know them. They know that you have a tendency maybe every once in a while to have one or two more than you should, fine. But if it's in a group where even though they're work cohorts and you really don't have that personal understanding of each one of them, then I think it's lame because those things spread. I've seen many corporate careers killed by stuff like that, so it's a qualified Game. [35:45] JD: Gauge your audience. For sure. Ari's chiming in, saying, hey, don't be that guy. [35:51] Chad: Not just your audience. Gauge yourself, too. Yes, there are certain people that can handle it and still be coherent. And there are others that I've been around in this space that once you get past that limit, it is all downhill for them. So I will say game, JD Especially if you're trying to connect beyond the boardroom. I would say game. It's okay to have a couple cocktails. We do it every Thursday night. [36:20] JD: Right. True. We do it in front of the entire world. You're right, Chad. But Justin, absolutely. [36:26] Justin: There's that line that you just can't cross. I'm totally game for it because that's where the memories are made. That's where the relationships are built. But once you have a beer flying past your head at a window in a suite in Del Mar, I don't know, you probably went too far. [36:40] JD: I didn't throw the beer. The beer was thrown at me. [36:42] Justin: I know, but I was trying to keep it pretty vague here, J.D. [36:47] JD: no, I'm with you guys. I think it's a delicate balance. Right. So you both were right. What Chad said, what Tom said, and what you said, Justin, is gauge your audience. Gauge yourself. You know, are you an angry drunk? You know, it's probably not a good thing. Do you say stupid shit when you're drunk? Or are you just a fun kind of loving, kind of happy, nice person? It depends on your environment, what's going on, for sure. But I will. I'm guessing I'm going to be of two minds, but I. And I'll agree with what Ari said is you just don't want to be that person. And here I'll get serious, because once everyone's sobered up and it's time to actually do a big business deal with someone, and you're considering who you should work with and who you shouldn't, your actions are going to be factored in. And I'm not saying that because you're tipsy. It was a bad thing. It might be a great thing. To Chad's point, they might. I'm going to choose that person. But just understand that they're going to be factored in, and you may be looked at as not as serious as the next guy says the guy who does a show every Thursday and gets hammered. But you know what I mean. [37:53] Chad: Hey, yeah, I'll make one. I'll make one note, by the way, because it just caught me off guard. There are two Greg's Getting points in the CBC challenge tonight, there's a Greg S. And it fooled me because I thought it was Greenfield like Greg G usually is. But note two, Greg S is earning points tonight. [38:13] JD: Thanks for letting us know that. You're very welcome, Katie. We appreciate it. [38:18] Justin: We have an Excel chart of every attendee and what time they log on. [38:21] Chad: Up to you, of course. Yeah. [38:23] Tom Foster: Okay, that's sufficient. [38:25] JD: All right, let's move on to topic number two. And this is kind of an area of expertise for you. And let me remind the audience about Tom, who has spent literally decades speaking in front of people in all types of environments and formats. And then I want to hear from Chad and Justin how important. And I usually think about an Advisor, but there's TPAs on here, too. So how important is public speaking to a financial advisor or a tpa, you know, looking to grow their business, looking to network, or looking to win new plans? How important is public speaking? [39:05] Tom Foster: I couldn't be more emphatic about how important public speaking is. [39:08] JD: I would have thought. [39:10] Tom Foster: Yeah, right. But I think it's very important that, again, very similar to what you were talking about in a social environment. You have to know your environment. You know, especially if I go into a. Speak to a group of people and I'm going to try to address them, I want to know, what's the makeup of the audience? Do I have TPAs? Do I have advisors? Do I have plan sponsors? Oftentimes we have the mix because you want to make sure when you're delivering something that it's going to be important to everybody listening. So if somebody said you're going to be talking to advisors and there were TPAs in the room and maybe some plan sponsors, if I just focus my attention on what this means to an advisor, I'm going to lose the rest of the audience. So public speaking, the ability to communicate effectively with people, I think is essential in this business. And I think if you can't. Because a lot of people are afraid of public speaking, as you well know. And I think if you are afraid of public speaking, get a sales coach to work with you. And there's a lot of organizations around the country who actually sit with you, work with you, and give you pointers on how you can improve yourself and become a better public speaker. But if you're not a good public speaker and you can't communicate effectively, that's definitely going to be a drain on your ability to grow. [40:12] JD: Is this. I wasn't. I wasn't here to. I'll go to you right Now Chad, but I wasn't gonna, wasn't bringing this up for you to self promote, but then I thought of this right now. Is this part of what you're gonna do a little bit with trial with Trau, is help firms with public speaking a little bit? [40:27] Tom Foster: That's one of the things we're thinking about doing. Yes, absolutely. [40:30] JD: Chad, Chad, give me your thoughts. But then let me also sprinkle for you cause I want to know what you think. Public speaking in front of someone doing a presentation is one thing like in Tom's world, but isn't it all the same shit in a point of sale? [40:43] Chad: That is 100% what I was just going to say. [40:46] JD: Good. [40:46] Tom Foster: Absolutely. [40:47] Chad: And what I was going to say is if you listen to everything Tom has said so far, he is about audience engagement. Remember at the beginning he said you don't just tell them what you think they want to hear, you ask them what they want to hear. So even though he's a public speaker, it's not like a president standing at a podium giving an address. It is engagement with the audience. Even when it is a big audience. Go back to some of our biggest shows or some of our biggest 401k academies. When you're chatting with hundreds of folks, you're still engaging those people. And so public speaking to me is not what I initially thought when I came out of college, which is standing at a podium and talking is engaging your audience and having an open dialogue, even though they may not necessarily be the ones talking. And so yes, a point of sale or a big presentation or a speaking engagement in my mind, no question. [41:33] JD: And isn't it also, I mean you don't want to come off too polished and too salesy, but it's your opportunity to exude charisma. You know, it's your opportunity to differentiate yourself from the people that were there before you and after you. And so I feel like if you can add humor, if you can, you know, leave an impression with those people, you're going to up your chances of closing that business in a big way. [42:01] Tom Foster: There's no question. [42:04] JD: I know my father in law who's a great speaker. We had him on here, was it last week that was here. He chimed in saying, hey, it's a big thing for business owners and a lot of them are intimidated by it. Chad, let me ask you, I come to you all the time about different record keeping options and you've pressed back at me that a lot of the advisors you work with really want the record keeper to come in and support in terms of an education meeting to the participants. And the vibe that I get on that is that they're not ready, willing, able, intimidated to get up there and do it themselves. And you know me, I get frustrated by that. [42:43] Tom Foster: Right. [42:44] JD: Is that something that you still see and don't you believe that that's a detriment for those guys, girls. [42:50] Chad: So I'll first say 90% of the time, yeah, that's what I see is that the advisors that we're working with are saying 401k is not my primary focus. So I don't have my enrollment, education, you know, speaking, content, ready to roll. So I'm going to leverage the record keeper to help me with her or do it for me in that matter. Is it a detriment? Jd, this is where I'll push back [43:15] JD: on you a little bit. Aaron appreciates my gender inclusion. Thank you. Even though it's after the fact, they [43:24] Chad: are, there is no detriment. Most of them are not trying to sell ancillary services. They've got the 401k, they've got the group health, they've got the private wealth, the business owner, something along those lines is why they're in there for the 401k is not 401k specialists. And so they look at it and say what value am I getting? And I'm just being honest. What value am I getting from hosting the enrollment other than maybe shining for the executive team? They're not in there to try to win private wealth business from the participants. I'm just being this is why financial wellness is so important. This is why people making inroads into the case space is so important. But the nature of the business in our world as a TPA is the vast majority of plans are going to be small market, micro market plans and the advisor working them is going to be someone who won't do more than three in their time career. [44:17] JD: I still just think that's a naive perspective though, to feel like that somehow your charisma and your speaking and your educating is just for the participants in the room. It's for the decision makers that hired you and can fire you. And if they want to leave those things with confidence that they picked the right person. If you're just sitting in the back of the room nodding your head or worse. I've seen, I've seen someone literally read from there, you know how PowerPoint used to give you the little cheater field below and I saw someone just read word for word what they had prepped Webby brought up a great idea. Yes, go ahead, Chad. [44:52] Chad: I was just going to say there's a lot of good chat going on in terms of ancillary business. And this is scary. And I agree with it all. And here's the way I typically push back on those advisors is when you bring the record keeping partner in to do the education, that record keeping partner is literally only doing education on to how, how the plan is going to operate. Like, this is how you get on the website, this is how you enroll. This is how much you can save. It is very ABCD set up. There is no charisma, There is no presentation why you should participate. [45:25] JD: But they'll talk about like power of compounding and tax advantages and that kind of shit. [45:30] Chad: Not all often, dude. [45:32] JD: Really? [45:32] Tom Foster: They used to. [45:33] Chad: Yeah, they're enrolling. It's not an education meeting too often than not, it's an enrollment meeting. [45:38] Tom Foster: Right? No charisma. Just here's how you do it. It's all by the book. [45:42] Chad: And so that's my pushback on the advisors. Like, look, you need to be that charisma. Let them do that side of it. But you do the why you're passionate about 401k and why you're passionate about retirement savings and what's the difference between Roth and traditional and compounded interest and earnings. And usually I can get through to them to say, okay, I'm going to leverage the record keeper and I'll tackle those couple of things. [46:01] JD: Michael Webb brought up a good point. He said, hey, sometimes the, sometimes the record keeper education specialists aren't all that in a bag of chips. You know, it brings you up to. There was a chad, you know the story. We had a really large client in the Bay Area and I had the record keeper education person come to do the meeting like we're talking about for this Merrill lynch advisor. And there's probably 200 people in the one room. And then they had, they had like screens that were shooting it out to all their other locations across the country. So there's probably like 3,000 people in total, I think, tuning in to this thing. And I didn't do shit. I was just like, okay, I'm just here to enjoy the show. We're going to let this record keeper education specialist do it. And I sat back with the Merrill lynch person and the guy started to do the presentation and he just had stage fright, like he was just sucking. And the Merrill lynch guy grabs me. I'm sitting there watching it going, oh, shit, this isn't good. And then the Merrill lynch guy grabs me, goes, you got to do something about this. He goes, I need you to go up there and get him off that damn stage and do the deal. So not trying to pat myself on the back because I was nervous as hell at the time because I wasn't mentally prepped for it, but I'm like, all right. So I literally go up and kind of nudge the guy and be like, hey, I'm going to take over from here. [47:27] Tom Foster: Great job. I like the better. [47:30] JD: But it was. It was weird. [47:31] Justin: It was weird on the wall that time. [47:34] JD: Long story, but Michael Webb is right. Sometimes they're not. You know, you can't assume that they're just going to do a phenomenal job. Topic number three, Mark is not here. I hope he's doing all right. I hope everything's going well for him. I'm sure it is. But this is our chance to talk about wellness because Mark hates us talking about wellness, especially because we keep bringing it up all the time. But I got to do it. I got to keep putting this in front of our audience because I think it's something that they can't ignore. But let me ask the big shot. Let's ask you, Tom. This concept of health plus retirement plus wellness, it's a massive trend. Do you think that it's got legs? Do you think it's legit? Are you a fan of it? What's your opinion? [48:18] Tom Foster: Well, I think in order for us to properly work with clients, we have to be. We did a survey. My former company, we did a survey of employers, plant sponsors, and we asked them, what are the things you're looking for in an advisor? And one of the things they told us, if I have a retirement advisor come in and talk to me about a retirement, they better understand my entire picture. They better understand what my company's all about. They better understand all of my benefits, because I want to make sure that they understand how retirement fits in there. So I agree that financial wellness is a process. Okay? You could still be a retirement plan advisor, but you should also be able to understand what those other benefits are. I always compare it to a. You know, when you. When you have a medical problem, you go to a primary care physician, right? And the primary care physician is really like the advisor. They listen to all the different things that are going on with you. They refer you out to specialists. So, you know, we talk about HSAs, we talk about all these other things that make up financial wellness. The advisor who's selling a retirement plan doesn't have to be an expert in all those things. They just have to understand how they all fit together and work with people that are experts in that field and come together and present a common front. So I think it's so important just look at what's happened to us in Covid. How many people in today's environment through Covid have an emergency fund? How many have other sources of income to draw upon so they don't have to invade their retirement plan and exacerbate the problem time value of money? So I'm an advocate of when you're dealing with a client, you should be not all things to all people, but at least have an understand how they all fit together. It's a big puzzle out there. And financial wellness not only deals with retirement but all those other issues you brought up. JD so I'm definitely a proponent of making sure we service all the needs of a client, not necessarily by ourselves, but with a group of people that we represent and refer out to. [50:10] JD: I think that a 401k specialist, because that would be the alternative. Right. Is someone who says no, no, no, I'm just going to do nothing but 401k, I'm not going to involve myself in that other stuff. I think that that person can still survive, no question and find their niche. And I think if that's, if you're going to stick to your guns and that's your approach, then by all means triple down on that and do it. But I also feel like, and I'm the advocate for the small advisor. Right. The sure. The one person shop or the ten person shop or the growing twenty person shop. And I think they're going to compete or have to compete with these mid size and these very large size national firms, many of which we've had on our show in the past. And I think that these big national firms are going to be showing this all in fully holistic solution that deals with wellness, deals with retirement, deals with health and student loans. Student loans. And that's going to be a really, that's going to leave a big impression, that type of point of sale, that type of conversation. And I'm worried for the little shops that are going to lose business to them. So my advice to them right now is to consider building their own type of solution in this space. [51:19] Tom Foster: Right. [51:19] Chad: Well I again, they don't have to [51:21] Tom Foster: be the one that does it. [51:22] JD: No. [51:22] Chad: Right, right. Oh, it's robe guy. Yeah, I heard we were talking about wellness. [51:32] JD: What a little brat. [51:33] Chad: His ears are burning. No wellness talk today [51:38] JD: Rober says Greg Rober's here. Let me. You know what's something I heard about with the wellness. Now that Mark's caught me talking about [51:50] Chad: it, [51:53] JD: that's my sign. [51:54] Chad: I'm out of here. No. [51:57] JD: Oh, no. I've been doing some research on behalf of advisors. I've been reaching out to a lot of these wellness tech type tools and trying to understand them a lot more so I can give some type of recommendation to people that ask me for my opinion. And what I'm starting to learn is something that those big shops I mentioned, I think have figured out that I hadn't really thought about, which is what I'll call fulfillment. The ability to actually, that's great. You set up a wellness program, but now if it's successful, people are actually reaching out to your shop in terms of, through email or through phone calls. Who the hell is taking those calls? Who's supporting them? And some of the big shops have that figured out. It might be a little more difficult for the smaller shops to figure that out. And so I'm going to parlay to robo and tech. Will they be able to use robo and tech to potentially help them in that space? [52:53] Chad: Space? [52:54] JD: What do you say, Mr. Foster? [52:57] Tom Foster: I think robo has, it definitely has a place. But, you know, we can't be all, like I said before, we can't be all things, all people. And the robo advisor is good depending on the amount of money you have, you know, what, what's your age? And I think if you look at the millennials, robo advisors are great because they sort of fit into that pattern of, you know, do it yourself. But if you look at the baby boomers of the world, not the baby boomers, but the, yeah, the baby boomers, that's a whole different ballgame. Because if you look at the baby boomers, those are the people that didn't grow up with, you know, the high tech and whatnot. And they're the ones that want to deal with a regular advisor. So my thought is, hey, it's a good thing they have robo advisors, artificial intelligence. It's very important today's environment. But it's got to be the right fit for the right people. And a lot of times the problem with the robo advisor is that human, that human, you know, that human touch. And here's an example, because somebody asked me not too long ago, give me the basic difference between a robo advisor and a regular advisor. And what I thought about it, I said, when you're dealing with A robo advisor, you're dealing with something with a hard drive. If you're dealing with a regular advisor, you're dealing with someone with a heart. In a time of crisis like Covid, and you're walking off that pier. Do you want to be dealing with someone with a hard drive or someone with a heart? [54:09] JD: Well, that's very offensive to the future of AI because. Yeah, feelings too, says Brandon. So. [54:16] Tom Foster: No, no, I totally agree. AI is definitely the wave of the future. But it's gonna. It's great. But again, a lot of people like that human nature and you know, because a lot of people don't want to deal with the computer algorithms. I'll give you a perfect example of that. Did you see the movie Sully? [54:32] JD: Yeah, sure. [54:33] Tom Foster: Okay. Where he landed the aircraft. [54:35] JD: Tom Hanks. [54:36] Tom Foster: Yeah. In the middle of the river. Well, think about this. If he had followed the algorithms of that computer, what would have happened? [54:44] JD: That's like a little guy statement. [54:46] Tom Foster: It would have crashed and burned. [54:49] JD: Why wouldn't you just give me the example of Terminator and Arnold schedule? No, I think that's a hybrid. I think we all, even these big financial wellness solutions, you see, they've figured out that it's a hybrid, right? They're going to use the AI, so to speak, speak to kind of guide participants through the process. But then there's always going to be that person there to kind of follow through on things and help. So anyways, it's going to be interesting. I think I saw Aaron talk about it in that chat bar earlier is even the small shops don't have to build this thing out all by themselves. There's plenty of tech that they can partner with and those tech can pick up the phones. Yes, Tony, people do call still and answer those emails and work with people. [55:33] Chad: I was chatting with someone that's on tonight, this guy named Andy, and we had a similar conversation around data was primarily where we were talking. But it's relevant to this conversation, which is the way the vast majority of the US population is going to get access to financial content is going to be through the 401k moving forward. And I think that if we can create wellness programs that properly identify the needs of these folks and can address those needs even through the connection of the 401k plan, can address true financial wellness for the access to these employees through the 401k plan, then we have truly accomplished something in our short bandwidth here. Because if you look back, at least in my time period, if you look back in the history of this space. The people who. Who are getting access to these kind of financial wellness tools are the wealthy. They're the folks that are giving private wealth counseling and private wealth advisors, and they have their own FA. It's not the guy or gal that's making 50k a year. And those are the people that we need to help as. And financial wellness is the key to that. [56:44] JD: I want to go down this conspiracy again. We don't have time. Who said? Someone. I just wrote them back, said the AI has its limits. And back to last week where Brandon said, no, bro, AI has no limits. And Elon Musk agrees that you will know that you're talking to a human or a computer in the future. And so we'll see. But I don't want to go down that path yet. Let's go cbc. We'll save it for a future show because I love that argument. Let's go cbc. Champion, who is your vote for? And Chad, I just want you to know there's two Greg's in the competition. Okay. [57:20] Chad: Greg. [57:21] Tom Foster: What? [57:21] Chad: There's like, Greg. Greg. [57:23] JD: Greg Greenfield, so. [57:25] Chad: Oh, got it. [57:27] JD: So please don't get them confused. Who's your vote for, Mr. Johansen? [57:32] Chad: Carl. Carl gets my vote tonight. It was a solid showing. He's been in the running a few times, but he's never crossed over the ledge. He gets my vote tonight. [57:41] JD: And he's given me surf reports, so that's good. [57:44] Chad: From Wisconsin. [57:45] JD: Justin, who's your vote? [57:47] Justin: I'm going Carl as well. I'm trying to find what he said, but, yeah, there was something in there recently that stuck out. [57:53] Chad: It was the Malibu beach one that you saw. Yes. That's what I want to thank you. [57:57] JD: Of all the phenomenal comments. It's the Malibu beach one that gets you guys today, huh? Tom, I know this is new for you, but who's your vote? Who really struck a chord with you in the chat bar? [58:11] Chad: Greg S. Greg S. Greg S. I don't know who Greg S is. Neither do I, but he was great, though. He got two check marks for me. [58:20] JD: Well, we will give the win to Carl because I was gonna vote for Tom. Three piece condrens for his blend of humor and intelligence. But, Carl, you're the chat bar champion. And you know what that means? Doesn't mean shit, really. [58:37] Chad: It means swag's coming your way. [58:39] JD: It means in the, you know, a year or two, we'll send you some swag to your address. We'll be reaching out. Don't call us, we'll call you. Okay. It's been another great episode and I want to end it with something. You know, I did my little tinfoil hat. Has Tom seen my little tinfoil hat Peps conspiracy? No. Okay? [59:02] Tom Foster: No, I have not. [59:03] JD: I did it a couple weeks ago and motivated the boys, specifically Mark. Although I think he got a little help to come up with a video. So, audience, if you're game, we're gonna show you a little video. Little video. [59:27] Justin: Maybe. [59:31] JD: I don't think we have volume. [59:33] Justin: Need audio. [59:35] Chad: No audio. B. Don't let your lover pass you by. [59:46] JD: Oh, hey. [59:48] Speaker E: Didn't see you there. Did you know that tens of billions of robes just like these ones go unused unappreciated each and every year? So join me in making robes great again. Especially if you appreciate the soft or silky texture, the warmth they provide in the winter time. Just like a night like tonight or the pocket beer function. Join me in the fight to save ropes. Please send donations to @mark palmini. It's my Venmo handle. Because you know what they say. [1:01:08] Chad: You know what they say. [1:01:16] JD: Deep, endless night. [1:01:20] Chad: You gave me everything you had all. [1:01:24] Tom Foster: You gave me life. [1:01:26] Chad: But I will remember you. [1:01:32] JD: I have a question. I have a question. Why are you burning the robe at the end? I thought this was a pro robe video. [1:01:41] Chad: Yeah. The timing of the burning of the robe might have been a little out of place, but what we're saying is that people don't like robes and I don't like robes. So I burnt that shit. [1:01:50] JD: Okay. Brad says he's shedding tears and Michael Webb says that was the best part, the burning of the rope. [1:02:00] Tom Foster: I really choked up. [1:02:06] JD: Tom got choked up a little bit. All right, well, very well done, guys. I appreciate it. Robes are important, and I'm glad that there's someone speaking on behalf of robe. So we played it the one night Robe guys on here. It's been. I was just about to say it's been another great show, but I don't know that I can't be the fucking judge of that. It's been another show. And Tom, we're really glad that you joined us. We appreciate it. You're in. You're an industry icon, and for you to come share your wisdom with us means the world to us. Everyone who tuned in, thank you so much. Congratulations, Carl. On the CBC champion. And I don't have any music prep, but Brandon's pretty quick on his feet. Maybe we'll play a song and wrap this puppy up. Brandon's like, fuck. All right, thanks, everybody. [1:02:55] Tom Foster: Cheers. [1:02:57] JD: Sa. [1:03:24] Chad: Actors and the flies and hide but [1:03:27] JD: emotions won't grow we're changing our way [1:03:34] Chad: Taking the love Love to tear the power again Love to tears upon. You rock, Tom. Thank you. [1:03:56] JD: Thanks, buddy. [1:03:57] Chad: Yeah. [1:03:58] Justin: Thank you. [1:03:59] JD: Oh, I didn't tell anyone about whether we're going next week or not because I'll just figure it out. [1:04:04] Chad: Oh, yeah, because.