Schlichter, Fees & 401k Simplification Debate

[0:02] JD: That's funny. [0:04] Chad: Right before that, Brandon said started the intro song. I was about to say I should go pee right now before we get started, but that's too late. Welcome to Retireholics, everybody. Thanks for stopped you. [0:17] JD: What's that? [0:17] Justin: When has that ever stopped you? [0:19] JD: Yeah, only the one time that I ran out in the middle of the show because number two was calling something [0:25] Chad: fierce, running through the entire conference to relieve myself. [0:31] JD: Welcome, everyone, to another episode. Retireholics. My name is jd And I'm here [0:36] Chad: with Silent J and Nerdy Chad and [0:41] JD: everybody's favorite retireholic guy. [0:48] Chad: Thanks for tuning in. [0:50] Mark: Who's wearing a robe right now? Anybody? [0:54] JD: Sober Dry January. No. No. Robe January. [0:58] Mark: It's called Ro. Robless Guy. [1:00] Chad: Robless Guy. [1:01] JD: Sorry. [1:02] Mark: It is. It is on my chair behind me. You know what? I'm actually gonna go on strike from the robe until. Okay, listen closely, Sully. Until I get a 401k specialist patch to go on it, I'm not wearing it. [1:19] John Sullivan: I'm still waiting on Schwab for my other three appearances on the show, so once I get that, maybe I'll consider it. [1:25] JD: Fair enough. [1:25] Mark: Dang it, jd, Come on. [1:27] Chad: We made him custom swag. I don't know what he's talking about. [1:30] John Sullivan: I was supposed to wear that, too. [1:32] Chad: All right, let's get going. [1:35] JD: I, I. We haven't done a song in a [1:37] Chad: long time, so I freaking worked on a song we're gonna do. [1:43] Mark: Pressured into it, by the way. [1:45] JD: A little bit. A little bit. But yeah, yeah, yeah, Brandon. So I have got controls on my. Brandon, I've kind of troubleshot this a [1:53] Chad: little bit, so I think I can [1:55] JD: just let her rip on my end, and we'll get through the song, and [2:00] Chad: then we can move on to the other stuff. All right, here we go. I wrote a song, and you're about to hear it. [2:34] JD: All right, here we go. [2:36] Mark: Any minute. [2:40] JD: And cheers to you, Mr. Fred Reich. J.D. loves you more than you will know. [2:48] Speaker F: Uh. [2:49] JD: Oh. God bless you. Please, Mr. Frederiche, interpreting the rules of 401k. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Your Twitter posts and podcast drops always make me smile. Blog the 401k like no one else. Look at your LinkedIn posts and all [3:21] Chad: you see are JD's likes. [3:25] JD: Did you know that you're the lock [3:28] Chad: screen on my phone. [3:29] JD: And cheers to you, Mr. Fred Reish. JD stock you more than you will know. Whoa. God bless you. Please, Mr. Fred Reich, interpreting the rules of 401k. Wait, wait, wait. Fred, where you going? Stay, stay, stay. [3:51] Chad: Fred. Fred, where you going? [3:52] JD: I'm just trying to be your best friend, buddy. [3:54] Chad: You don't need to run away from me. What is this? [3:58] JD: You know what sucks when you sing that song? Is when you glance down, literally is [4:04] Speaker F: the most moving thing I've ever heard. [4:07] JD: When you glance down and you notice [4:09] Chad: that Sullivan and Chad and Justin and [4:12] JD: Mark feel more awkward right now in this moment than you do. Like, they're sitting there, like, hard to watch. Justin, it's your time to intro our guest. I'm expecting a good one. And you out there in the audience, you're gonna rate Justin on a 0 to 10 on how he does. Justin, take it away. [4:30] Justin: Well, today's guest just might be the most fantastic guest we've ever had on the show. He's a journalistic savant, a bit of a poet, if you will. The 401k zone. Edgar Allan Poe, if you will. Only without the whole drinking and dying and whatnot. His literary. Literary rebuttals to our pranks are things of legend. And because Brandon and JD Just can't help but fuck with him every time we're at a conference, I live in perpetual fear of what Sully's going to say next. To keep a sharp mind and quick in his quick wit, he avoids the very substance this show was founded on. Normally, we talk shit on our guests who don't drink behind their back, but since he finally put us on the COVID six months ago, thanks to all your profound efforts, of all you folks, we decided to give a rest. He's the most fantastically fantastic editor in chief there ever was. Mr. John Sullivan. [5:19] John Sullivan: Fantastic. Love the golf clap. You know, Tony said, this is why I stopped drinking during that song. I just got knocked off the wagon, actually. I'm going back to boozy. [5:29] Speaker F: Way to go, J.D. bringing everybody down. [5:31] John Sullivan: Fantastic. [5:33] JD: Do you do feel like an idiot when you're like, it's the middle of the workday and you're calling Brandon going, [5:38] Chad: I need to figure out the melody midway through this song. I'm screwing it up. [5:42] JD: And Brandon goes, bro, nobody gives a shit anyways. [5:45] Chad: Just fucking figure it out. [5:48] JD: Sully, we're so glad to have you. You are like part of the family, man. So it's good to have you back in the retireholics virtual land. But let's. [5:59] Chad: Let's go to headlines, shall we? Headlines. Brandon, [6:10] JD: You should start your market minutes like that. [6:12] Chad: Sullivan. [6:13] JD: A little more professional. [6:14] John Sullivan: Completely. [6:16] Chad: First one I want to go to is, since we're in football, you know, playoff time, I want to go to Odell, Beckham, obj. I think Brandon can throw up a little something here. It seems I've read that odell took a $750,000 salary. Mind you, that's just a finish out the season, right? That's chump change for him with the Los Angeles Rams. But he announced to the world that he was going to take this salary in bitcoin. And this was in November of last year. I should pull up the math here. Let me pull up the math. Well, he's got to pay taxes on that $750,000, right? And he's in a pretty high tax bracket. [7:01] JD: And now his investment goes down quite a bit. [7:06] Chad: JD's not preparing here. Let's read this to you. On November 12th, Odo Beckham signed a deal with the Ram. 750,000. He announced he'd take it in bitcoin. At the time, bitcoin was worth $64,293. Today that deal is worth $412,953. Because bitcoin's gone down, Odell will be taxed at the 750,000. Federal and California state tax will be just north of 50%. 50.3. Which means. You ready for this, Mark? Odell, as of now, has netted $35,000 and $703 from the Rams contract this year. 35 grand. [7:46] John Sullivan: I'm not going to tell you that these will increase in value or even [7:49] JD: hold their current value. The truth is you bought them because you like them. [7:53] John Sullivan: They have value to you. That's what matters. [7:58] JD: Chad, I know you. I know you're under the weather. [8:01] Chad: Mark. [8:01] JD: Yes. [8:01] Chad: Thoughts? [8:02] Mark: My only comment to that is, first off, who the hell cares? Because that was just his Rams contract. How much did he make from the Cleveland Browns this year? Like $12 million. So I don't really give a shit. They're gonna. [8:15] JD: Yeah, but it's fun. [8:17] Chad: It's fun with math right there. That was fun. [8:20] Mark: Sorry, sorry. Yeah, that, that point of it all. I'll let all it. Chad give his nerdy math in take on that. [8:26] Speaker F: I mean, it's. It's market timing, right? Even if he had done the same thing in 2008, but immediately put all the money he got straight into the market and had a 50% downturn in the stock market, we could say the same thing. You're doing it simply because it's bitcoin. I say double down. Take that 12 million Cleveland and go Buy More. [8:48] Chad: I like where you're at with that. [8:49] Justin: It's gonna rebound though, right? [8:50] Speaker F: Chad. Hell yeah. [8:53] JD: I'll give you guys not a short [8:54] Speaker F: term play with bitcoin. [8:56] Mark: The year 2030bitcoin is going to be worth 500,000 a piece. [9:00] Justin: So it's fine. [9:01] JD: Chad nailed it on the head. [9:03] Chad: Kind of the debate that's all over the Internet, which is, well, you need [9:07] JD: to look at this less as his compensation. [9:09] Chad: And to Mark's point, he's got other compensation, but. [9:13] JD: And more like as Chad points out, an investment. And yes, Mark, we're on a football [9:18] Mark: thing here, so timeout. You didn't even talk about Travar champion. I know John's a are an all star here, but I mean really, we're [9:29] JD: playing chapter champion and we're playing acro sin. Go. [9:32] Mark: Thank you. [9:32] JD: Thanks, Mark. [9:34] John Sullivan: And here for a second because I mean wealth managers always talk about corn explorer and that's really all it is. That was his explorer. Right. It was just fun money. As Jim said, it's just playing with house money. Right. He's got plenty, so why not take a little and just roll the dice? [9:47] JD: And he just. [9:48] Mark: He's not the only one. A lot of other players went out and did this. [9:51] Speaker F: Yeah. And a lot of players got praised for it too because they bought bitcoin, you know, with salary at 2000 a coin and it got up. Good point. 5000. [10:00] John Sullivan: Now I like to see the comparison of that player who got it that low. [10:04] Chad: He unfortunately bought it in November. [10:07] JD: And let's see, bitcoin hit a high [10:11] Chad: of just south of 68K and today is just south of 70, 30, 37K. Sorry. So that's like cut in half or more than half. Right. [10:21] Mark: Does that count, Justin? [10:22] Speaker F: Yeah, I think it does. [10:23] Justin: Hackler, Odell Beckham Jr. Counts as an Ackerson. [10:27] JD: Oh. [10:29] Chad: So yeah. [10:29] JD: So he caught it so far at the worst. You're very much right. We could be looking backwards in. I did that in six months, 10 months. And he could be the winner and laughing at everyone. I will also note to you that I also jumped into Ethereum. You probably heard it on this show at around the same time. [10:48] Chad: And Ethereum's pretty much tracked bitcoin. It's similar kind of downturn. So I had the same problem. Just mine wasn't 750k. It was. [10:57] JD: All right, so a little more than that for that. [11:00] Speaker F: Yes. [11:01] JD: I'm drinking, I'm drinking. Okay. [11:03] Mark: No, no, no. But for the, for the 750,000. You, you. [11:07] Justin: Is that an accuracy if you use the letter? [11:11] John Sullivan: So as Greg just said, you know, what about Scaramucci and he's my best friend, so I guess I can kind of just now talk about him. I love name dropping like that. But yeah, I mean, look, it's the next monetary system, right? So what does it really matter? You're playing the long game here. Odell knows that. Well, I just wanted to work Scaramucci in there. That was the whole reason for the comment. [11:33] Speaker F: I love, I loved that statement, John. [11:35] JD: We've, we've made some of those same [11:37] Chad: statements on this show almost in defense of bitcoin going into a retirement plan. And it gets a lot of hate, you know, and a lot of pushback. But you cannot argue the fact that it's kind of funny for the traditional investor right now to sit back and [11:54] JD: watch all of these young kids and these millennials who were crushing it and now because of their crypto and their bitcoin and some of their non fungible tokens, are looking to get their jobs back at Subway and, you know, Burger King and stuff. [12:09] Speaker F: Timeout. People that are crushing it in bitcoin aren't ones that bought it last November, dude. The people who worked at Subway and that no longer need to work at, they know, $200. So I think you're, think you're off on that one. People who are late to this game that are buying it right now need to really be in it for the long play. But those of us that bought it a long ass time ago don't mind this kind of pullback. Still feels good. [12:38] Chad: I like Covid, Chad. [12:39] JD: Okay, let's move on to another headline. The old Nevin and Fred have come [12:47] Chad: out with a new podcast. And you can leave that one up there, Brandon. That's perfect. Give them a little plug. Nevin and Fred new podcast dropped. Check it out everyone. I listened to it this morning over [12:56] JD: my coffee and they talked about this [12:59] Chad: little 401k specialist article we have up here. Plaintiffs score win an excessive fee case versus Northwestern. [13:07] JD: This is a big deal. John, what's the reaction been to this article? Have you feel like this is getting a lot of heat, a lot of attention? [13:14] John Sullivan: Our number one article this week. I kind of figured you were gonna ask me about what we're covering now. And this was the number one. You know, doesn't surprise me. It has it all. You know, I feel like it's got Schlichter, Tibble versus Edison, excessive fees, Supreme Court. It's everything you want in a story. Pretty much. [13:33] Speaker F: Yeah. [13:34] John Sullivan: People are definitely reacting to it. I mean, you had the lower court that said, you know, Basically dismiss the case. Then you had the 7th Circuit affirm that decision and then the Supreme Court overturned it and said no, that sending [13:47] JD: it back now to the seventh Circuit. [13:48] Chad: Huh? [13:49] John Sullivan: Yeah. And participants are not responsible for monitoring necessarily the investment quality of the investment of the fees. They are obviously responsible for monitoring the performance. But that note, that falls on the plan sponsor. And so that's really quite the shakeup. So as you might imagine, as you said, jd, it's getting a lot of play. [14:06] JD: It's. [14:07] Chad: Yeah. [14:07] JD: Everywhere. And please do tune into Nevin and [14:11] Chad: Fred's convo on it because they do a great job of kind of start to finish. [14:15] JD: And John did a quick headline there or a quick kind of summary there, which was. [14:19] Chad: Which was good. So it made it really interesting is [14:22] JD: it gets through all these higher or [14:25] Chad: I should say lower courts, I guess gets the Supreme Court. Supreme Court says no, sends it back, I guess with new advice. Right. [14:32] JD: Saying, hey, maybe they could still dismiss this case in the 7th Circuit, but they have to now do it with [14:40] Chad: the kind of assessment and advice from the Supreme Court, which is you cannot do it. [14:45] JD: And this is what I want to [14:45] Chad: talk to you guys about. [14:47] JD: You cannot dismiss the case simply because [14:51] Chad: there are lots of investment choices for the participant. More specifically, if one investment's bad, maybe there was another one that was good that the participant could have taken and that should give you some type of protection. [15:04] JD: And they have said no. And they cited the Tibble case. [15:08] Chad: And look, we talked about this with that one. You must monitor all the investments available to participants and make sure that they're up to snuff. Chad, you look like you got a Covid thought the nugget. [15:21] Speaker F: No, I'm mind blown that Nevin was angry at some point because I don't feel like Nevin Adams could ever get angry. And I really want to see it. [15:31] Justin: I can see a side that is just terrifying, but it takes a lot to get to it. [15:36] JD: I honestly was shocked because I didn't [15:39] Chad: know, I didn't pay close enough attention just in the beginning to know that that Northwestern had like hundreds of investment options. [15:47] JD: I thought it was really interesting to hear Fred and Nevin talk about how the Tibble case and when they were talking about having tons of investment options that they almost felt like brokerage accounts were going to become like a safety net. Like if you had a brokerage account, it would create this safety for you. Because you could always say, well, my [16:06] Chad: participants have tons of options to choose from. Or think like the Nationwide fund window. Right. And Nationwide Financial My participants have tons of options. So should they should never. About a fund. I didn't know that that was the comparison. I was thinking this is where I want to get maybe your thoughts, Mark. [16:23] JD: I thought it was more about like [16:25] Chad: this big push towards low cost index [16:30] JD: funds and that this is where a [16:32] Chad: lot of these lawsuits were coming forward saying you could have had a Vanguard, you could have had an S&P 500, you could have had this. [16:39] JD: And I thought when I first just skipped it about like got it Standard and Poor's. I thought it was more about like [16:46] Chad: well wait, you can have actively managed more expensive funds if you will, so long as you have these other options. That's clearly what it was not about. [16:56] JD: But I'm curious Mark, then we could take it to Justin and Chad. Are you seeing core menus built by [17:02] Chad: advisors these days that have a blend of the index and the active? [17:06] Mark: Oh yeah, no, primarily yeah. I mean the initial lineups that we get are never a blend. It's always a low cost, passively managed group of funds, index funds. But no, the advisors that are doing this business are creating a lineup that includes both. For sure. It is all, it's, I'll say this, it's 80% of the time it's a blend. [17:34] Chad: It's a blend. [17:35] JD: Which to me would, you would think that would give you some protection. [17:39] Chad: But again not, not the point of the, the case today. [17:44] JD: Chad. [17:45] Speaker F: No, I agree completely with Mark and I want to hit a little bit more on your point there Mark, that every proposal received is always shoved with proprietary and loaded with passive because they want to show the lowest possible required revenue, Mark. Because they know they're being spreadsheeted most of the time and people aren't smart enough to dig through that. But beyond that, when the advisor goes to write the menu, I would say 80% of the time the regional vice president says hey, work with the internal and let's, let's come up with a menu. Now that has changed at Northwestern, right? You guys all seen that every plan they write has to have an outsourced 321 now. So they're not writing anything without it. At this point, all of their clients are being pushed to a 321. So all those old American funds plan that a lot of Northwestern Mutual advisors were writing are all being pushed that route now too. They're repapering all the clients to have a 321 on every plan. So you're seeing a lot of that business move right now. I think it needs to be Done by April of this year. I think. [18:48] JD: I think the. We can't. [18:50] Chad: These can't be Chad's nuggets. These will be Fred and Nev Nuggets. But when they come to the end, I think the. The summary or the takeaway is one we've heard forever, which is, hey, dummies, you need to have an investment policy statement. You need to have a process to [19:07] JD: monitor the funds and remove and replace them. [19:10] Chad: You know, when they fall below certain criteria. That's the takeaway. But I also want to let everyone know this is not a done deal. So this case could still be dismissed. It's not as though the Supreme Court said, no, you. You cannot dismiss this case. They simply said you can't dismiss it based on that frame fact. You know that just because you have alternative funds to offer that you don't have to worry about those. So we still need to pay attention and see where this goes. But to John's point, it's causing a lot of. It's getting a lot of attention throughout the industry. Let's. Let's get to it. Let's see if Justin's gonna get a hat trick. Everybody, let's spin the wheel of ice. [19:50] JD: This would be three in a row for Justin. [19:52] John Sullivan: Can I just. You didn't ask me what I was drinking. [19:55] Speaker F: Oh, John, I don't drink. [19:58] John Sullivan: You remember, I got mocktails here, man. Can't see, it's [20:11] JD: gotta put it right in front of you. [20:13] John Sullivan: It's juniper, cucumber, Collins, lemon, angelica. [20:17] Speaker F: Okay. Who wouldn't pick that up for you, John? [20:22] John Sullivan: So I have a good friend who was my managing editor who just. I recommended her for a position at the Journal of Financial Planning at the cf, the fpa. And so she ended up getting the job. And I was really happy for [20:40] Justin: John's drinking partner, by the way. [20:43] Chad: I much prefer you with a Heineken 0.0 in your hands. But it's okay. We'll let it slide. Isn't it last week's champ that's supposed to drink for John on this show. [20:54] Speaker F: Hey, my wife found an entire store that sells non alcoholic booze. She bought some. It's called soft spirits. She was like, this is a whole bottle of gin. There's no alcohol in it. I don't know why you do this. [21:10] Chad: I don't like where this conversation's going. [21:12] Mark: I think I really understand now. [21:16] JD: I would. [21:16] Chad: I would prefer we spin the wheel of ice and drink real booze instead of talk about, hey, by the way, [21:21] Mark: before we do that, I'd like to interrupt again and say that you're talking about, you know, Nevin and Fred's podcast, which is great, but the initial podcast sponsor of the Robe, aka our show, was 401k Fridays. And we all know who's coming on his show. If you saw his LinkedIn post, Mr. No Boogeyman himself, so. [21:41] JD: Oh, for the third time. [21:42] Speaker F: Yeah. [21:43] JD: And don't worry, John, I'm doing a whole. I'm doing a whole bit on your [21:46] Chad: podcast in the show, so don't worry, you're not getting left out. [21:49] John Sullivan: All right, thanks, man. [21:50] JD: Let's spin the wheel. Brandon, Hat trick, bring him up. [22:15] Justin: So, Mark, this is what it felt like when the show started, huh? [22:18] JD: Too bad, too bad. All right, John, now you know. [22:22] Mark: Now you know. [22:23] Chad: Speaking of podcasts, real quick. [22:26] John Sullivan: We hatched Lichter on the COVID in 2016. Sorry, just respond. [22:32] JD: Are you saying you were the first [22:33] Chad: to break Schlichter in the world? [22:37] John Sullivan: In a way, I was. We had videos that we did with them and everything. I think we were just a little too far ahead of the curve. But, you know, I thought because Tibble was being decided at that point that it just go gangbusters, and it really didn't. [22:48] Speaker F: Well, nothing can beat our cover, John. We all know that. [22:52] JD: I've seen those old videos of you and Jerome. [22:54] Chad: Those are nice. Those are nice. [22:57] JD: You heard it here. John Sullivan informed the entire world who Jerry Schlichter was. We appreciate that, John. You guys at 401k specialist magazine have a podcast creatively named. [23:10] Chad: What's it called? [23:12] John Sullivan: 401k Specialist Podcast. [23:14] JD: Nice. That was sweet. You get a nice Madison Avenue firm to come up with that one for you. [23:23] John Sullivan: I know everything. [23:25] JD: I know you guys have clocked in [23:27] Chad: quite a few episodes. What, you're north of 35 or 40 or something like that. [23:31] John Sullivan: I gotta say this, JD, you were in 2021, one of our most listened to podcasts. But Chad was right behind you. He's only about 200 downloads behind you. [23:43] Mark: So that's what happens when they listen to themselves. Yeah. [23:48] JD: How's my. [23:49] Mark: Tells us we have to listen to it every day. [23:51] Speaker F: Yeah, it's part of it, right? [23:53] Chad: How's my dust Chase taste, Chad, you fucking second place for losers. [23:59] JD: What I want to do today is go over. [24:01] Chad: I'm gonna actually play some audio clips for you from some past guests that you've had on your podcast. [24:08] JD: And my hope is that these comments [24:10] Chad: from your past guests will kind of just spur on a little conversation amongst us here at the bar. [24:15] JD: So, Brandon, feel Free to start with anyone you'd like. I got. [24:18] Chad: I got a couple of them. [24:22] Speaker G: Well, I think that. I think 401ks are overly confusing for employers and participants. They're overly complex over overly burdensome. There's too many parties involved. It's too expensive. So what I like is we're seeing a trend towards streamlining these services where you can maybe get to one or two. You know, if you're a business owner, you can go to one or two places to get the plan done right. We're seeing a decline in costs. We're seeing an improvement in a migration towards fiduciaries that advise. In this space, we have a long way to go, really. There should be. It should be very, very simple. Like when we acquired America's Best, you know, you go online, you fill out some questions, and you have a full fiduciary. Your costs almost always are substantially lower. The plan is very easy for participants to understand. That should be the norm in the industry. And at that point, we'll have made some real progress. [25:16] Chad: Blah, blah, blah. [25:18] JD: I'm with. I'm with Bill in the chat bar, but I won't say it out loud. John, everyone wants to know, who was that speaking? [25:25] John Sullivan: That was Peter Mallouk. [25:27] JD: Very nice. [25:28] John Sullivan: One of the largest RIAs in the country. You know, obviously, his comment, [25:34] JD: Registered investment advisor. [25:39] John Sullivan: He mentioned there that he bought America's best 401k. It's very streamlined. It had Tony Robbins as the chief marketing officer for quite a while and a major investor. So, you know, he's definitely his. You got to take his. His comments with a grain of salt. But, you know, I like Peter. I disagree with him often. I disagree with him on what he said about target date funds. You know, the Twitter war that erupted, erupted over it. But he was a great guest, you know, and I got to ask him about owning, you know, a piece of the royals, and, you know, it was cool. [26:09] JD: I might talk to you more about the little Twitter battle that went down on the target day funds, but this [26:16] Chad: whole simplicity thing, we've heard a lot and discussed a lot on this show. [26:23] JD: I saw a lot of anger in [26:24] Chad: the chat bar there, quickly. [26:27] JD: But you know what? [26:29] Chad: I think we need to pay attention to it. [26:31] JD: I think when someone like Peter says [26:33] Chad: that if clients were listening in. [26:36] JD: Mark, do you think you think clients would agree that 401k plans should be simpler and easier and cheaper? [26:45] Mark: Do I think who should agree? [26:47] Chad: The clients the plan sponsors 100%? [26:50] Mark: Yeah, easily, yes. [26:52] JD: And so if they think that way, [26:54] Chad: should we be Sitting up here as [26:56] JD: industry people poo, pooing Peter's ideas, saying [26:59] Chad: he's got it all wrong. [27:00] Speaker F: The issue that I have and I. I wrote immediately in the chat bar, I agree with many of those points. The issue I have is, as an industry, we're trying to sell a new marketing tool that is those things without actually accomplishing what he's saying needs to be accomplished. We're not really simplifying it. We're not making it easier. We're trying to tell people, hey, come to this pooled employer plan, and everything will be fixed for you. You don't have to worry about anything. We're taking away the importance of it. And we're not working hard on payroll integration. We're not working on simplifying the way these plans need to be ran. We're overanalyzing to try to win business. We're creating more regulation that makes us have to charge more. So we're preaching it, but we're doing the opposite in what we're trying to create. [27:47] Mark: Well, a lot of it, too, in my mind. It's really that terminology. Saying something is simple does not mean that it becomes something that is a click of a button or that you just don't have to do anything for. Right. There are recipes out there that are claimed to be simple. Guess what? It still takes you 30 minutes to prep and do everything and make the dish. [28:13] Justin: Okay. [28:14] Mark: There's still work involved, but maybe it's easier than the executive chef over that French restaurant when he makes it or she makes it. But that it's. It's the verbiage. Right? Easy, simple. [28:27] JD: I get it. [28:28] Mark: Because it was hard as shit years ago, we have made it a little bit easier. [28:33] Speaker F: We have. [28:34] JD: I totally agree. [28:36] John Sullivan: We're talking specifically just about the plant sponsors. And from the administrative standpoint, not necessarily investing standpoint. [28:43] JD: Well, no, I think we're talking about all things. [28:47] Chad: I think we're talking about all things. [28:50] John Sullivan: But you don't think it's gotten a hell of a lot cheaper and a hell of a lot easier with auto enrollment, portability and all that stuff. [28:55] Speaker F: That is not easier. [28:57] Chad: No, not necessarily. I think, unfortunately, automatic enrollment, John, it creates more responsibility for clients. I mean, you think about it, you [29:07] JD: got to make sure that you're putting people in when they don't turn in their enrollment forms. You got to make sure that if you have annual increases, that you're doing them when they're supposed to happen. [29:16] John Sullivan: Right. So then we're talking about the administrative [29:18] JD: standpoint, then Again, yeah, it can get a little more complicated. But I liked Mark's analogy of, you know, and we talked about this a bit when human interest was on a few weeks ago, which is I kind of gave them kudos for just being good marketers and good branders. They use the term simple and quick and easy. Peter's using the same term. [29:40] Chad: And as I said earlier, I think that's what clients want to hear. And I just think that we should wake up to that a little bit instead of being bah humbug about it and trying to push so back so hard on it. Maybe we need to embrace kind of their terminology and their words and see what we can do to make it a little simpler, which we do. We do. We try. But we need to wave our own flag on that stuff. [30:01] John Sullivan: Yep. [30:02] Speaker F: J.D. i feel like I want to make a little statement on this because it's not the first time the chat bar has had this comment. I've, I've constantly said negative things about auto enroll and I'm not, I'm not denying that auto enroll is the right thing to do and is really great in most situations. What I am arguing and what I, what pisses me off is when I run into clients that have failed their auto enroll because someone sold it to them as this really attractive way of running the plan that's modern and what most of the up and coming startup businesses are doing. Yet nobody explains to the client without payroll integration that that responsibility falls on their shoulders. And then we get in and it is wrong and it is messed up terminology. [30:48] Mark: Auto enroll. They almost think like it's done for them. [30:52] Speaker F: That's my point though, Marcus. Too many people are not taking the time to explain it. No, I, I want to be clear. [30:59] JD: I want to be clear with my old friend Guy Hawker there too. I'm not talking about pooled employer plans right now. I'm talking about all plans. And so yeah, I understand that automatic enrollment is in all these types of plans. [31:12] Chad: We're just talking about the fact that [31:13] JD: unless you got a record keeper that [31:17] Chad: really has the tech nailed down and unless your payroll provider and the human resources people and the people at the company are really, really paying attention to details and making sure that all the synapses are firing properly, automatic enrollment can [31:32] JD: make plans more complicated. I'm a fan of automatic enrollment. Get me wrong, I'm not, I'm not saying you shouldn't do it. I'm just saying don't wave around the [31:40] Chad: simplicity flag of that type of thing because it can be more complicated we could go deeper. [31:45] JD: We don't. [31:45] Chad: We don't have a ton of time on this. [31:47] JD: I just. I just wanted to say to our audience is that let's keep listening to [31:54] Chad: these disruptors and these Peter Mallouks and these people. They're understanding what our clients want, and they're communicating to them in a way that sounds attractive to our clients. And I think we need to start doing a bit of the same thing, because the reality is it's us, the [32:11] JD: industry pros that have been doing this [32:12] Chad: for decades that are probably in the best position to actually create some type of efficiency for these clients versus these newcomers to our industry that are claiming to, but really aren't. And Covid chat is on fire. So I feel like he's got another thought. Let him let it rip. [32:28] Speaker F: I'm typing. Kevin wrote to just us and the panelists, and I wanted to make a point back. [32:34] John Sullivan: We had Peter Mallouk's partner at the time, Tony Robbins, partner on the COVID One of the issues. And that's a gainer. [32:39] JD: He's a gainer. [32:40] John Sullivan: Yeah. Thomas Gainer. And that's exactly what it was. This guy's coming for your 401k business just by at least saying that it's easier, you know, seducing them with. Okay, it's going to be a lot easier and cheaper than what's established out there. We're the disruptor, and, you know, there's a case to be made for that. [32:56] JD: Sully, do you know that Tom's a gainer? I wish. I wish I could go back and find them, or people could just easily search them. Tom's a gaynor. And I would get into it on fucking LinkedIn. And I called him out and told him to come on this show several times, because when he, back then, was claiming simplicity and ease and lower cost and I would look at his program, I was calling him out in the. In the chat bars and saying, bullshit, your program's not cheaper. [33:23] Chad: It's not more affordable. You've just cut out the advisor role [33:26] JD: and you've done this and done that. And so we really, really got into it. So when I saw him on your [33:31] Chad: cover, I was like, motherfucker. [33:34] JD: And. And we actually did an episode way back, go back into the archives, where we talked about Tony Robbins and Zagaynor and America's Best and gave them a whole bunch of, if I remember correctly. [33:47] John Sullivan: So now I'm gonna lean on Tom hard to come on. I think that we need to do that. [33:50] JD: I would Love that. [33:52] John Sullivan: Yep. [33:52] Mark: JD, when we filmed that show. Only 12 people would watch and knew where. [33:57] Justin: So. [33:57] Speaker F: Yeah, well, that's. That was a Half Moon Bay brewery too. We all got, we all got pretty. No, it was when we called out T. Rob. [34:05] JD: No, we were in the conference room. We're in the conference room. [34:07] Speaker F: That was the first time. And then we did the first. [34:10] JD: The first signs of COVID brain are [34:12] Chad: hitting Chad right now as we speak. [34:15] JD: Let's pull up another audio clip. And John, you can let everyone know who this is when we get to the end of it. [34:21] Speaker H: Comments are huge. And one last tip that I suggest on the comment stream is for every day, for every one thing you post, you should be commenting on five other people's posts. So every morning when I wake up, I go into every feed, a platform that I'm on and I choose five posts and I leave pretty value added comments. It's not just like, hey, great post, Tim, but something that adds to the conversation or is thought provoking. And what happens is now when I go to post my content, Tim's more likely to see it and also to comment on it. So you know, people got the media part down of social media. They're posting media all the time. But most people aren't social. They don't actually go and leave those comments. So that is really important. [35:04] Chad: Joey Santos got it in the chat bar. [35:06] JD: Who is that? [35:06] John Sullivan: Sully. Joey's our producer, our wonderkind. He pretty much makes sure that the trains are running on time. I mean, he's just fantastic. So good buddy of mine. Great guy. [35:17] JD: I didn't really care about Joey. Him. I was saying, who's the person who was talking? Who was speaking? [35:23] John Sullivan: Oh, that was Shannon Russell. [35:25] JD: Samantha, you should drink for that. [35:28] Mark: You should. [35:29] JD: And Joey, I love you. I love you. I love you. [35:32] Chad: Samantha. [35:33] JD: Russell, [35:36] Chad: let me ask, I'm gonna go [35:37] Mark: to Jesse on our show way back when, you know. [35:39] Chad: Yeah, she's been a guest on this [35:40] JD: show and by the way, she's. She actually, I'm not saying she's phenomenal just to be nice and then rip on her because I'm not really gonna rip on her. But she is phenomenal and she works very hard and has lots of great value add and ideas for advisors. But Justin, I want to go to you. She's talking about creating content. She's talking about commenting on five different people's posts in the morning and being on Facebook and LinkedIn and these things. If you're representing the financial advisor community, [36:12] Chad: are they feeling some stress by this? Are they feeling like they're missing the ball. Like, are they feeling like this is a bunch of bullshit? Like, how do you think their assessment is on all this stuff? [36:22] Justin: There's definitely a part of the industry who don't. But God, I was stressed just listening. You say all that shit and listen to her. It's like, how are you going to find the time to do that? When I got to manage my clients and everything and do my clients go on and pay attention to my social. Is it even useful? And yes, it is useful. We know that. But still, I don't know, it's. I think the majority of advisors are, you know, probably pretty stressed out thinking about the like, shit, I gotta do all that stuff. [36:47] JD: Should I be doing it Sully? [36:49] Chad: It's a trend. [36:51] JD: Do you think that they're stressed out by it and feel intimidated that they're not doing enough? Or do you think they're more like Will Hackler in the chat bar who says this is total bullshit? [37:01] John Sullivan: That's it. I mean, the average age of the advisor we've all heard is like 155 at this point, right? So they don't care. You know, you have a lot of the young people who are banging this and I think eventually it is going to be a thing just because everybody's so digitally savvy now. I mean, you talk about young clients in the San Francisco area that are sitting down with advisors and they're fact checking them in real time on their phones, right? Bringing it up and googling stuff as the advisor is saying it. So it's, it's, you know, it's pretty aggressive. But you know, at this point, an old guy like me, I bring in a Joey Santos and he does it for me. So I think that if you've got somebody younger on the team that you can dedicate that to or outsource it, it might be a good idea. [37:40] Mark: Well, I mean, you can't teach old dogs new tricks. Is that what you're saying, John? [37:45] John Sullivan: Ain't nobody got time for that. Joe Biden is one of the most fantastic tweeters in the history of tweeting. Now, you know, I don't know how that is because I see him sometimes having trouble stringing together a sentence. [37:59] Chad: But I want to place our focus and our spotlight in the conversation more on Ain't Nobody. The marketing aspect of it, you know [38:07] JD: that the generating new business, right? [38:11] Chad: Generating new leads that then you're gonna close to add to your business and make more money. [38:16] JD: And I'm gonna. This might sound weird coming from me, who's you need. Many would label me as kind of a social media guy, but I honestly don't think advisors need to worry about this shit. I think that there's only so many Jake Rushton's, there's only so many Jeannie Fishers, there's only room for so many influencers. And so the most of you, most [38:42] Chad: of you that are out there, that are stressing to create content and post out there and feel like you're not doing enough, no offense, you're not Jeannie Fisher. You're not going to get the likes and the comments. And it doesn't matter whether you follow Samantha's guidelines or you don't. And I say don't even worry about it. Worry about other ways of generating new [39:04] JD: business in today's area. And John, to your point, I'm not saying that you wouldn't use zoom or [39:10] Chad: that you wouldn't understand that someone might be googling, you know, your stats as you're saying them to them. I get all that. I just mean I don't think you need to stress out on Monday morning about making a post on Facebook and a post on LinkedIn and a post [39:23] JD: on Twitter and making five comments here and there. [39:27] Chad: I might even argue you're wasting your time. [39:30] JD: And if I laid Will Hackler next [39:32] Chad: to you and he said, fuck it, I'm not doing any of that, I'm [39:35] JD: going to use old school strategic partners. [39:38] Chad: Well, don't use Will's specific example because he's got those right there for him easily. [39:42] JD: But a general advisor who's going to go more old school tactics, knocking on doors, making calls, working through strategic partners, kicking open doors. I might argue they'd be a lot more successful than that person trying to come up with a creative tweet. Chad, go ahead. [39:58] Speaker F: John, you're far more important than me. [40:00] John Sullivan: Thanks. Now, I was going to say, I mean, you know, you mentioned Jeannie Fisher, you mentioned a lot of the young digitally savvy advisors that are out there and rightfully so. But what about like Rebecca our hand? You know, she's always talking about a digital footprint. She's always talking about they're going to go out there and they're going to at least want to see something. [40:17] Chad: Good point. [40:18] Speaker F: That was gonna be my point. [40:20] JD: That's a great point. And I would, I would actually argue. I agree with that. But that's kind of like your digital storefront, if you will. So I was talking about posting on [40:31] Chad: Facebook, posting on Twitter, creating content, making comments. [40:36] JD: Should your website look tight and Reference your current vision and company? Yes. [40:42] Chad: Should you have LinkedIn profile that's pretty [40:45] JD: and represents who you are and gives contact? Yes. [40:49] Chad: Might you even have an Instagram that [40:51] JD: has some stuff there so people can just see? [40:53] Chad: Yes. [40:54] JD: Your digital storefront should look good so [40:56] Chad: you don't look like a fucking idiot [40:57] JD: when I research you and look you up. [40:59] Chad: But you do not have to waste Monday through Friday on some pipe dream that you're somehow going to win a ton of business on Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn. [41:09] JD: It'd be a lot cooler if you did. Awesome and or doing dances on TikTok. [41:20] Speaker F: I was just gonna say two quick things. Jim said one thing which is you don't necessarily have to steal the content, but piggyback on others. If you read something you like, then go ahead and share it and make a little comment about it. [41:32] JD: Why then you just look like you're lazy. [41:34] Speaker F: I disagree. I disagree. And I will tell you, as someone who's looking for the right kind of advisors, I absolutely look if they have any type of presence, I want to see the things that they're reading and commenting on. I want to get a little feel for who I'm getting ready to go meet. And you do need a footprint in today's day and age. And I say that my wife is losing her damn mind here in Missouri because companies have no websites, they have no phone numbers to call. You don't know if they're open. You get there and they're like, well, we're randomly closed on these Tuesdays. And I feel the same can happen with an advisor. Someone knocks on the door and says they do 401ks, but then you go look around and you don't find them anywhere. I don't believe you that you do 401ks. If I'm not finding some sort of presence of you doing 401ks. [42:17] JD: My concern is that there's a lot of advisors and I'm not going to pick on the 105 year olds like John did. I think there's a lot of them [42:27] Chad: that are even 30 years old, 40 [42:30] JD: years old and 50 years old. [42:32] Chad: And instead of focusing their attention on how they've won business over the last [42:38] JD: three, five and 10 years and how they might be able to improve that. You know, like there's ways to improve the old school ways of winning new business. [42:48] Chad: Instead they're being told by a lot of talking heads that it's all about digital content and they need to be an influencer and get their personal brand out there. [42:57] JD: And I'M just saying that if I [42:59] Chad: put two of those people side by [43:01] JD: side and did a race for the next five years to see how much new business you could bring in and how much new revenue you could generate, [43:09] Chad: I'm not so certain the social media content path is the one you should take. [43:14] JD: That's just where I'm at. [43:16] John Sullivan: I just see so many successful advisors who are on Twitter, who are on LinkedIn, who have great presence. I mean, is that a correlation versus causation argument? [43:27] JD: I think, I feel like when you say that john in the 401k space specifically can name them on my two hands, if. [43:36] John Sullivan: Yeah, that's a good point. [43:38] JD: So I call bullshit on that. Like, no, that's not true. There's not that many. And if you really, I bet you if you name a few of them [43:46] Speaker F: for me because we see them there, that's why we know about those folks. There's so many others that are way more successful that aren't creating a social presence. [43:55] JD: And I'm worried that we're teaching people [43:58] Chad: to focus on the wrong things. There's. And I'm not saying you got to do. I'm not trying to be an old school person, say, oh, just do the things the same way your father did them 30 years ago. I'm just saying, no, focus your attention less on creating content on social media [44:11] JD: and more on how you can go [44:13] Chad: kick open more doors, get more opportunities [44:16] JD: and win more business. [44:17] Chad: And there's lots of ways to work on that. Lots of creative ways, lots of branding ways, lots of marketing ways, lots of product option. There's all kinds of ways to do that. [44:25] John Sullivan: That. [44:25] JD: So let's, let's play a little fun game with Sullivan in the middle of the fun. You're, you're, you're the game show attendee here. Okay. We call it Winners and Losers. We're going to put up a picture of two people, two things. And John, you need to tell us which one you think is the winner and which one you think is the loser. [44:47] John Sullivan: Got it. [44:47] JD: And why. [44:53] Chad: Are the champions. [44:54] John Sullivan: Oh, I thought that was part of it. I was like, oh, come on, it's Freddy. He's got a Heineken too. [44:58] JD: He's a winner no matter who you put him up against. Oh, this is, I like to have fun with these. You know, I like to kind of put you on the spot. [45:06] John Sullivan: You don't have to put me on the spot at all. I mean, you know, napanet is such a fantastic magazine. It's. [45:16] Speaker F: We needed to make it that Planned for the term. Fantastic. [45:19] JD: So the national. The national association of Planet Visors magazine is the winner in your book, Sully. Just because they're, as you say, fantastic. Fantastic. [45:34] John Sullivan: Okay, sorry, that got me now. I've expressed this to Nevin before. I was like, dude, stay in your lane, please. You're making me look bad. I mean, it's just a great looking magazine. It's not a great information in there. And I'm like. [45:45] JD: And he's a brainiac. [45:47] John Sullivan: He's a brainiac. And he's making me feel very insecure. So I was like, fine, man, I'm start, you know, lobbying Congress then. Jerk. [45:55] JD: How about you, Covid? [45:56] Chad: Chad, do you have a preference between these two mags? [45:59] Speaker F: No, I really don't. [46:01] JD: Thanks for your insights. What about you, Mark? Have you ever read either one of them? [46:07] Mark: First off, how dare you insinuate that I haven't read either of them? Obviously the answer is no. And also I don't choose either of them because we've never been on the COVID [46:20] JD: Justin. [46:22] Justin: First off, how dare you insinuate that I actually read them. [46:27] Mark: Why are you stealing my lines, bro? [46:28] Justin: Because I have to. I had to go opposite of you. I'm sorry, Plan sponsor, question mark. [46:38] John Sullivan: So I just point something out here real quick before you reveal yours. So Kushner just said something that made sense, right? It's a little bit of a. [46:47] Mark: He did what? [46:49] John Sullivan: What's that? [46:49] Chad: Kushner did? [46:50] Justin: Yeah, made sense. [46:51] JD: Mark, the 401k specialist is number one. Is that the sensical statement he made? [46:56] John Sullivan: No, he said, what about Plan Advisor? So it should be Plan Advisor versus Napa Net Plan Sponsor. [47:01] JD: Fair enough, fair enough, fair enough. Geez, man. I was trying to work on song lyrics. I didn't have a chance to like vet out my two fucking magazines. Make sure there are apples to apples. [47:14] John Sullivan: That's the one you want to read. [47:15] Chad: Who said that? Kushner said that? [47:18] John Sullivan: Yeah. Yep. [47:19] Chad: You kush. [47:20] JD: Okay, let's do the next one. [47:22] Mark: Me a mug. Send him a broken one. [47:27] JD: These are two Top Advisor by Participant Outcome. No, not both winners. You got one winner and one loser in that category. Right. Nominees. [47:35] Speaker F: Well, they both won a month and one one a year. [47:38] JD: You know who you're looking at, right, Sully? [47:40] John Sullivan: Yeah, no, I do. So I'm going to go with your pick, actually, which I believe was Astley. [47:47] JD: Oh, he won Art. No, not true. [47:50] John Sullivan: I'm going to go with Potichin so that I don't have to decide myself. I'm just going to say I'm going to go with your winner. [47:54] JD: For the audience, this is Alex Astley and Aaron Potichin, two financial advisors. And so, John, who is your favorite of these two human beings? Okay, Chad, who's your favorite? [48:08] John Sullivan: The only reason is because, again, you guys put them head to head, and potato came out on top. [48:14] Chad: Okay, okay. [48:16] Speaker F: A Ron is just too pretty. He's too pretty. So I'm going Alex with this one. [48:21] JD: Aaron. Based on his. Oh, no. Aaron. Not because of his good looks. Okay. Wow. Alex wins because of his ugliness. [48:28] Chad: All right, Justin, [48:31] Justin: go for the other dog, buddy. Alex. [48:33] Speaker F: Every time. [48:34] Chad: Okay, we got a split deal. [48:36] Speaker F: Mark grants. They're both quality dudes. That's why JD's doing this. [48:40] JD: Mark's calling one of them. I feel like. [48:43] Speaker F: No, Mark's trying to avoid the question. [48:46] Mark: Guys, I gotta go. I gotta go. [48:49] JD: Where are you? [48:50] Justin: Oh, I thought he was. Seriously. [48:53] JD: You know what? I used to think they were both very cool. I feel like they're falling off a bit. I think they need to step up again. I was gonna say, I'll give my [49:01] Mark: winning vote to the person who's here, and they're. Neither of them are here, so. [49:05] JD: Okay. See, case in point. [49:07] Chad: They're falling off your edge, and I wasn't gonna say anything, but you're not as fun as you used to be. [49:13] JD: It's exactly how I feel. All right, we got one more for you, Sully. [49:22] John Sullivan: Yep. [49:23] Justin: Just. [49:23] Mark: Just one more. All right, I'll make it up. [49:28] JD: Let me know if, you know, you're looking at. [49:31] John Sullivan: I've got to go with Davidson. That guy, he just has the career, nine lives. I mean, he can do no wrong. It's unbelievable. Oh, gosh. [49:40] JD: If you were Kim K. You're going Pete Davidson. [49:44] John Sullivan: Davidson. Yeah. [49:46] Justin: Oh. [49:46] Mark: The question is if you're Kim. [49:48] JD: Well, I don't know. Sort of, you know. Right. [49:50] Mark: I thought maybe, like, you want to hang out with him. [49:53] JD: I like that one, too. Mark, you can answer that one. All right, you're going Davidson. That kind of. I would have picked you as a Davidson guy, Sullivan. That makes sense to me. Okay, Mark, which one would you want to hang out with? [50:06] Mark: I really like Pete Davidson's comedic act. I enjoy it. But, you know, I will be honest. Kanye go in the studio, you get to meet other rappers and cool guys in that industry. I. I don't like Kanye's. [50:20] Justin: They're just using him, then what? Yeah, you would just use him. [50:25] JD: That's what I'm hearing. [50:25] Speaker F: Yeah. Yeah. [50:26] Justin: Okay. Just to meet the other people. [50:28] JD: Oh. [50:28] Mark: Just to Meet other people. [50:29] Speaker F: Yeah. [50:29] Mark: Because his music right now is weird. I wish we could go back and actually Pete Davidson wore a hat that said bring back 2006 Kanye. And I agree with that. [50:39] JD: His music was better. [50:40] Mark: He wasn't nuts. [50:41] Speaker F: So. [50:41] Mark: Yeah. [50:42] JD: Which you know, is a funny stab because there's drama between them. [50:46] John Sullivan: Right. [50:46] Mark: That's great. Yeah, that's great. [50:48] JD: I think Kanye has a. [50:49] Justin: Expect there to be. [50:50] JD: Kanye's got a rap lyric about Davidson right now or something. Chad, Nerdy. Covet Chad. Which one of these do you think has the higher net worth? I'm making up. [51:05] Speaker F: It's definitely kind of. But I'm going to hang out with Pete Davidson. I don't have to worry about getting shot when I'm with him. [51:11] JD: Wow. [51:13] Speaker F: There's a lot of people that don't like Kanye, dude. Nobody really cares too much about how logical is Chad. [51:19] Chad: He's woven in his own safety into the decision. I like that. I like that. [51:24] Justin: Justin Davidson. Davidson drives me nuts, man. [51:30] JD: I'm. I'm honestly, from the bottom of my heart, I am a Kanye west fan. I like his music. It's got a creative angle to it, an artistic angle to it. Nothing that John Sullivan would ever understand, but he definitely pushes the envelope in that side of things. [51:48] Chad: I know it can get a little [51:49] JD: weird when he's not on his meds and I know he maybe wasn't the nicest guy to Taylor Swift, but you live and learn and you forgive people. My vote is for Kanye West 100. [52:04] Chad: What? [52:05] John Sullivan: Even Jesus. [52:07] Chad: Oh, yeah. A lot of it's been good, John. [52:10] Mark: Google Kanye West. [52:14] Chad: Gotta look through some of it. Shoot. There was. We wouldn't do the. [52:23] JD: Did we? [52:23] Chad: I thought we had another one. Damn it. I guess I didn't send it. [52:25] JD: I put. [52:26] Chad: It's gonna put a JP Morgan and a BlackRock logo next to. [52:29] JD: To each other and ask you which one was better. But we can move on from that one, I guess. [52:34] Mark: Wrong button. Wrong button. [52:38] Chad: Both being sponsors of your magazine, what can you. [52:43] JD: What can you tell us about when does the next mag come out and can you give us any secrets, any leaks? [52:50] John Sullivan: So in honor of Kanye, our next mag drops in March. That'll be the first quarter. And so we've got Ann Lester on the COVID A Target date fund manager JP Morgan for 29 years. This woman is the. Do I really have to say John Pierpont. [53:12] JD: Yeah, whatever the name is. Yeah. Glad you know that game, John. [53:16] Justin: I mean, as a three time guess, I would expect you to know that. [53:21] John Sullivan: All right, so anyways, She's a complete badass. And I'm actually trying to work the word badass into the piece, just like I work, you know, fuck into the piece with you. So. So she was a rugby player and played the piccolo at Princeton, her undergrad. And then she got a graduate degree at Johns Hopkins and Japanese studies, went over to Japan, became a member aid to a member of parliament in Japan for five years, then moved to Italy, met her husband, worked there for a while, then came back to the States, became a senior executive at a major financial services firm, and then after 29 years, just retired and decided to walk across Italy. A thousand miles. [54:02] Chad: Are these people? [54:04] Speaker F: Yeah. [54:04] John Sullivan: So I'm just like, I'm moving a lot faster. I am. [54:07] Mark: Just makes me feel like when you [54:09] JD: hear about these kind of people, though, it's inspiring. [54:11] Chad: Yeah. Like, to know, like, that's it. [54:14] Speaker F: What was her name again? [54:15] John Sullivan: John and Lester. [54:18] Speaker F: I'm looking her up over. That's not a person I had heard of. That's like crazy. [54:21] JD: It makes you feel like, oh, I'm [54:23] Chad: capable of that as a human being. [54:25] JD: Like, I could do more than just drink beer and go surfing. [54:30] Chad: It's possible. [54:32] John Sullivan: Star Manager of the year 2014. But she really, you know, her career pretty much mirrored the rise of target date funds, and she had a hand in really developing them early on. And she's a woman on our cover, thank God. Finally. [54:48] JD: I don't know. [54:49] Chad: Well, you've had. You've had several. Hasn't Janu been on the COVID twice? [54:54] John Sullivan: Yeah, Jan's been twice. And then we had one other. One other woman. Oh, no, we had Liz. [54:59] JD: You had Financial finesse, Liz Davidson. [55:02] Chad: Oh, is that it? [55:02] JD: Oh, yeah. Good for you then. [55:04] John Sullivan: Far between, though, you know, so. [55:06] Chad: Yeah, fair enough. I'm not sure how I feel about the fact that you're willing to release now ahead of time that she's going to be on the COVID But when [55:17] JD: we were going to be on the COVID you were like, please don't tell anybody. So I'm not sure how to interpret that. Like you're proud that she's going to be on the COVID and for us, you just wanted our window to be as small as possible so maybe no one would notice or. What's the reasoning there? [55:34] John Sullivan: No, that's it. Okay. I think you're an idiot, Mr. Sullivan. [55:39] Justin: So, yeah, John, it's been. It's been poisoned. The posed in the chat bar, too. When do. What do we got to do to get on a second time? [55:49] John Sullivan: Come on, man. [55:49] JD: It's not gonna Happen. And I would never even ask him that. [55:52] Justin: We didn't think we would get on the first time, but we did. So. Justin, Justin, More positive minds here. Justin, meditate. [55:59] JD: You do not know what I had to do off record to make that happen. And it's not going to happen again. All right, before we get to chop our champion, I. What I'd like to do is let everyone [56:13] Chad: actually, no, let's do chapter champion first. [56:15] JD: And then I'm gonna. [56:16] Mark: Yeah, so go for more now. [56:19] JD: And then I'm gonna let everyone know our. [56:21] Chad: Our conference calendar for the 2022 year, [56:25] JD: although it's pretty well cemented, but there's [56:27] Chad: a little bit of flexibility there. But let's go chop our champion first. [56:31] JD: I'm going to go straight to you, Mark. Your vote for chat bar champion today is. [56:36] Mark: I'm going to go off of one comment just because I laughed really to myself a lot and out loud. Tony Davis, because he said Covid caught Chad. So I really appreciate that. [56:50] Chad: Tony Davis. Tony Davis. Justin. [56:55] Justin: You know, I want to make her feel really welcome first time here. Catherine Downey. [56:59] JD: Okay. That's pretty big. [57:02] Speaker F: She was active too. [57:03] JD: And you're just, you're not just doing it because she showed up and you liked her name. She brought some quality to the chat [57:09] Chad: bar as a rookie. [57:11] Justin: She said it's my first time here and I, I respected that coming out. [57:14] John Sullivan: Yeah. [57:16] Mark: Just handing out nominees. [57:17] JD: Yeah. Now you're just being a kiss ass. Like same thing you're doing to Tony. [57:20] Justin: Come on. [57:22] Mark: Okay, Chad, he said one funny thing. [57:24] JD: I thought it was hilarious. [57:25] Justin: She said more than one thing. [57:26] Speaker F: There was a lot of activity tonight. Some were very good. Some were a little slower tonight, but it was, it was a late point takeover by Christine Roberts and a comment that she made. People can accomplish all this shit when they're not posting on Twitter all the time. I like that. [57:44] Chad: Christine Roberts. [57:46] JD: Sully, your vote for chatboard champion. [57:49] John Sullivan: Kush. He made me laugh. [57:50] Chad: Okay. [57:51] John Sullivan: I smoked pot with Johnny Hopkins. It was me, loan Kettering and Johnny Hopkins. We blazed that shit up. [57:59] JD: As, as Kush has mentioned many times and I've mentioned before, check him out on Instagram. [58:04] Chad: He's a great follow. Sullivan, if you're not following him already, [58:07] JD: I'm going to actually. [58:08] Chad: I can't believe I'm going to say this. [58:10] JD: I'm going to vote for one half of the Shamanda show. I'm going to vote for Amanda Iverson into the chat bar champion. For one comment and one comment only. I put up Kanye's picture And I put up Pete Davidson's picture, and she said A or B? I'll choose C. So she's not into either one of those. [58:30] Chad: So, Brandon. [58:31] JD: There we go, chap. [58:32] Chad: Our champion. [58:33] JD: Let's send him out there. [58:35] John Sullivan: So, Amanda, just so you know, you'll never get your. [58:39] JD: Not true. Everyone's. We're all up to speed on chat Bar champions. [58:45] Justin: Apparently not to John, though. [58:49] Speaker F: Wait, John, have you ever run one? [58:51] Justin: Chat Bar Champion? [58:52] John Sullivan: What's that? [58:53] Justin: Have you ever won Chat Bar Champion? [58:54] John Sullivan: I did when you guys were kissing my ass to get on the COVID [58:59] JD: The senso. You won last week, bro. Give it a chill. It'll be there. [59:05] Mark: Did he pay his shipping and handling charges? [59:07] Justin: Is that what JD did to get [59:08] Chad: on the COVID I wish. [59:12] JD: Here comes the votes. [59:16] John Sullivan: Oh, I got locked out. I didn't know. Quickly. [59:20] Speaker F: Yeah, you don't. You don't. [59:21] JD: No. We don't get a vote. We don't get a vote. [59:23] John Sullivan: Son of a. [59:25] Chad: Come on, people. [59:26] JD: Get your last vote in. It's kind of. It's close. Sort of. [59:32] Justin: Oh, Davy K. Says he never got the mug. [59:37] JD: No. Well, there's people that will get them, actually, within the next few days. [59:42] John Sullivan: I've opened the floodgates. [59:43] Speaker F: Amanda. [59:44] Justin: David, I don't think it's going to be you. [59:46] JD: Amanda Iverson. [59:47] John Sullivan: Whoa. [59:49] JD: Shop Bar champion. Let us know what retire like mug you would like in the chat bar, [59:56] Chad: and I think you need to message me your address. [1:00:01] JD: You can text me and we will [1:00:03] Chad: ship it out, but you got to [1:00:06] JD: let me know in the chat bar what mug you would like. Congratulations. [1:00:12] Chad: Part of Shamanda. [1:00:13] JD: All right, everyone. In 2022, we are going to be heading out to several different conferences to perform live retireholic shows. And I just want to give you guys a first glance at these dates in case you want to join us at some of these places. I'll put a formal kind of, you know, piece together that we'll have on the website and we'll post on social. But for now, loosely, March 10, we will be in Nashville at the American Trust Dealio. [1:00:42] Chad: I'm sure they got a fancier name for that conference, but I haven't heard it yet. But Nashville, look that one up. [1:00:46] JD: April 21st will be in Phoenix, Arizona. [1:00:50] Chad: Amanda, maybe you want to come by and say hi at the Western Pension and Benefits Council Spring Conference. I'm pretty sure I got that acronym right. [1:01:00] JD: May 15th through the 17th will be in Austin, Texas, at the Broadridge FI360 Little National Conference. [1:01:08] Chad: I think they got a different name for that. But I'm just looking off my notes [1:01:11] JD: here in July, [1:01:15] Chad: second, third week of July. [1:01:17] JD: I can't give you a ton of information, but if you live in flyover states, [1:01:23] Chad: we might be coming through town. I can't give you any more information, but just think about us kind of [1:01:30] JD: on a traveling tour, if you will. More information to follow. And so stay tuned to that September, we're going to be up in San Francisco. Still need to nail down a date on that in the Bay Area, but I think I'm looking at the 16th, [1:01:44] Chad: which is a Thursday. Check me on that. But whatever Thursday that is, we'll see. [1:01:48] JD: October 12th through the 14th, we will [1:01:50] Chad: be in Austin, Texas, at the Leaf House national conference. [1:01:54] JD: And October 16th through the 18th, we'll be in Las Vegas, Nevada at the [1:01:59] Chad: wealth at Work conference. [1:02:02] JD: And if you'd like us to be in another one, we can't come for that because, yes, Chad's got a wife and kids. Mark's got a wife and kids. Brandon's got a wife. Justin, not so much. Me, I don't really give a shit that much, but we still, we can't make it. Too much to do. [1:02:17] Chad: Too much to do. [1:02:19] JD: Sully, thanks for being with us. [1:02:22] John Sullivan: Thanks for having me again. [1:02:24] JD: Your energy has been so through the roof, you know, I just. It's been phenomenal. It's been fantastic to all of you that tuned in, the new people, the old people, thank you so much. We love you. And Chad, I hope you start to feel better. [1:02:42] John Sullivan: Feel better, Chad. [1:02:44] JD: And let's play a song and maybe [1:02:48] Chad: we'll see who's around for the after show. You never know.