Coverage Gap & Fintech Disruption: Is Fast Setup Real?

[0:02] JD: Welcome, everybody, to the shittiest zoominar on the planet, the Retireholics. My name is James Douglas Carlson. I'm joined by Mr. Chadwick Johansen, Justin McNeil, I guess to be named later, and everybody's favorite retireholic [0:22] Chad: robe guy. [0:25] JD: All right, I've got a. I think we got payroll off, so we're good. I'm going to focus on the show now. [0:30] Justin: I don't want. [0:31] JD: I. Don't quote me on that. The password got over. Don't quote me on that. [0:35] Justin: Famous last words. [0:37] JD: I got a little. Got a little poem for everyone that I like to read. It's been a little while since we've done a poem, and this one's just for you, Eric. Just for you. [0:49] Justin: Oh, boy. [0:51] Eric Phillips: I don't know how to take that. But we'll see. [0:53] JD: Brave, brave little Eric. Courage galore. Guesting on the Holics. Walking straight into war. Does he know that I've talked shit about disruptors for years? Did his handlers properly research or were they distracted by the fun and the beers? Lower fees, they say. Set up in 30 minutes or less. Millions more in VC funding. That's all I hear about in the press. New tech, smoke and mirrors, I say when you really drill down, JD's mad. JD sad. His jealousy shown by his frown. However, Eric, in exchange for your bravery this promise, I vow an open mind, politeness, and good vibes for now. But let's be clear. Valuable conversations demand a bit of spice. So welcome to another episode. Now, BC Spin the Wheel of Ice. [2:01] Chad: Well done, jd. [2:09] JD: Yeah. Oh, I say just freeze them up. God damn it. Hey, a little backstory, Chad. Justin tried to tamper with the integrity of the Wheel of Ice today. [2:27] Chad: Oh, he's got a game tonight, doesn't he? Was trying to get out of it. [2:31] JD: That is karma in every way, shape and form. He literally was trying to get out of the Wheel of Ice. And the wheel said you, Justin. Going down. [2:43] Justin: That's fantastic. [2:44] JD: I guess. You know what? We'll just. Can you. Can you pump out a quick intro before you pound that down? [2:50] Mark: Sure. [2:51] JD: All right, intro our guest Justin. And you out there in the audience, rate just his intro on a 1 to 10. [2:56] Justin: That might have been the best short I've ever heard. [2:58] Mark: Pretty fucking pissed off right now. Ladies and gentlemen, Eric Phillips. [3:07] Chad: All I got tonight. God damn it. [3:10] JD: Rate him on a 0 to 10, Bobby. Don't put weird links in the chat bar. Let's. Let's say we're going to play some games today, Eric. So I want to Clue you in on them so you're well informed. We will be playing chat bar champion. So keep your eye on that chat bar. And whoever's your favorite, you can vote them into the semifinals. And then the audience out there, you. You people have tuned in. You crazy little 401k freaks. You'll vote for the winner. You know how that works. And it could be anything. It could be funny, smart, whatever. We are also going to play Acro Sin. So this is important. If you use any acronym or initialism besides my name, you have to drink from your. Your penalty drink. And we'll, we'll be letting you know. You'll see that your little graphics will hit the screen. [4:01] Chad: Those were both sent before he said it, Mark. So don't try to call me out in the chat bar. [4:08] JD: And I think the chat bar is going to be great. Let me ask you, Eric. At Plan Design Consultants, we call our employees PDCers. [4:17] Justin: Oh, that counts. [4:18] JD: Oh yeah. What is. Does human interest call. Is there any special name for the human interest humans? [4:26] Eric Phillips: We are all humans that have interest in retirement. No, we are employees of human interest. [4:32] JD: Okay, that's a mouthful. Creative. [4:36] Eric Phillips: Anyways, as Bill mentioned, I think we need it. [4:40] Justin: We need to come up with something a little bit more catchy there. [4:42] Chad: Yeah, maybe we like his. They're all. [4:44] Mark: Hi. [4:45] Chad: They're high artificial. [4:50] JD: Anyways, I felt like it might be fun because if we've got some human interest peeps in the chat bar along with some kind of industry long timers, it could be a fun little back and forth. Let's go straight to headline. Headlines, Brandon. Headlines. Do you all know of the UK based SMART that's coming into the United States? Damn it. United Kingdom. Smart. United States of America. That's not the real name. It's the initials. Is a big pooled employer plan provider looking to kind of hit the market sometime later this year? They've got hundreds of millions of dollars behind them just like you do, Eric. Well, guess what people. They bought the longtime established money manager stadium. [5:49] Chad: Oh shit. Really? [5:50] Mark: They're making a mess. [5:51] JD: Those are my exact thoughts, Chad. So kind of cool, kind of interesting. Maybe I'll throw. Throw it straight at. I want to put Eric right on the spot. I'll throw it straight at you, Chad, and then Eric, you can follow up. Why might a pooled employer plan want to buy something like stadium? Does seem like a smart move to you? [6:14] Chad: Yes, I asked the question why not? Why would a pooled employer plan want to buy a money manager like stadium? A tactical money manager Because I get that and we can get into it. But why Stadium was my question. Brand recognition has been down for Stadium. They had partnered with other products in the past. I'm kind of surprised that that's. With as much as they're coming into this marketplace. Smart United States of America. I'm surprised that Stadium was the shop they went after. [6:43] JD: I don't know if it's entirely just for the pool. [6:46] Justin: You got to start small. [6:50] JD: Any thoughts on this, Eric? Are you aware of this? Does it tie into what you guys are doing? [6:54] Eric Phillips: I saw it, yeah. But, you know, I think it makes sense. It's not a surprise to have an asset management side of things. So it's good. But yeah, Stadium is surprising, but also it's. I'm sure they got a hell of a deal on it because it's Stadium. And so if they're trying to enter in, why not go there? [7:12] Chad: I like this guy. [7:13] JD: Nice. And Chad, you're so critical. I guess my nose is as close to the ground as yours. You're seeing stadiums brand isn't all that it used to be these days. [7:23] Chad: Ten years ago, Stadium was sought after. And perhaps it's a little bit because we've been on such a bull run for a while because Stadium touted their horns in 0809. Being good in that bear market. But struggle. Yeah. Which a lot of money managers have. [7:40] Eric Phillips: All active managers did. Right. Like, it's. It's been hard because everything is up 40%. So. [7:46] Chad: But I've seen them pushed out of a number of platforms as others have come in and kind of taken over dominance in that money management side. [7:53] JD: Well, I know our longtime show family member Daniela Moises is over at Smart now, and so we'll bend her ear on this a little bit. But yeah, just wanted to pay attention to that. These guys are serious about this and they're starting to put some of their puzzle pieces in place. [8:11] Chad: I mean, if you're looking at coming into the States and creating a big pep. And I like these chocolates, though, but they're too sweet and they take too long to open. I'm going to have to go get a bottle of liquor. Yeah, that's. So you know what going to take you. [8:26] Justin: Those don't do. [8:27] Mark: They don't. [8:27] Justin: They don't count. [8:28] Chad: Oh, wow. They totally do. JD My question would be if you're. If you're building out a pooled employer plan and perhaps. Eric, this ends up circling back to some of our conversations for later. The first thing you're looking for right is payroll integrations. I have to imagine that's number one for, for the type of clientele they're going to be going after. Number two, I would think would be asset management. And so it makes sense what they're trying to do. They're trying to make this easy, simple, for lack of a better term, plug and play. And going after participants that have never had access to a retirement plan and giving them a resource that will manage the money for them. Sounds attractive. And people will bite on that quickly. [9:09] JD: That's. You're pretty, pretty neutral there. I'm thinking I get more evil thoughts and Danielle will get mad at me, but I'm thinking like, okay, I'm going to run a pooled employer plan. You know, I'm smart. I'm. We're coming to market this year, but I also want to create additional, you know, revenue streams and so maybe I can leverage this as some kind of add on. [9:32] Chad: You're so thin. [9:33] JD: Where we can make some more money. But that's just me being a negative anti capitalist, which I'm not really. Okay, let's go to the next headline. Cow Savers is starting to get a little pissy. They're getting pissed off. Mark, I made up those words. That's not really true. No, they're just saying, hey, guess what, guys, we're gonna start finding people. So if. [9:58] Justin: Hey, guess what? You said you were gonna do that. [10:03] JD: Well, Mark, this isn't news this time. We're serious this time. We're setting it out so they thought [10:11] Mark: everybody was just going to comply from the start. [10:14] Justin: Yeah. [10:15] JD: Not in the mail. And to recap for everyone, maybe I'll get this wrong, but I think it's like it's a $500 per participant penalty and then they'll hit you up the second time around for 250 bucks. Getting to a total of 750. Yes. Just own. [10:29] Mark: Actually, no. I got an email that the payroll went through. [10:33] Eric Phillips: Did you really? [10:35] JD: Yes. Oh, fuck. Yes. Okay, good news. Good news, everyone. [10:41] Eric Phillips: The show goes on. [10:42] Justin: It does. [10:43] JD: So yeah, Calsavers is. They're claiming they're going after. I think it's the hundred plus. Yeah. So that'll be fun to see. Imagine you got 100 employees and you get a $500 penalty. That's 50 grand. So that'll get someone's attention. [11:03] Chad: Right on. [11:04] Mark: 750 at this point. And I mean, are they going to be able to track all of those businesses? There's no way. [11:10] Chad: What do you mean? Yes, it is. It's super simple. They have to go online and compare. [11:15] Justin: Now, it's super simple, but it's a governmental agency. We all know how that works. [11:21] Eric Phillips: The original deadline was a year ago. Yeah. [11:25] Mark: Six months ago, something like that. [11:26] Chad: Yeah. [11:26] Eric Phillips: Once again, good enough time as any to start thinking about imposing. [11:32] Justin: So Eric, I'm just curious though because. And I probably should do research before I ask these questions, but we're live on the show now, so obviously there's other state run plans out there. Are they imposing penalties as well? Did they have the same deadline thresholds that California did? [11:50] Eric Phillips: I think California is the first. [11:52] JD: Yeah. [11:52] Eric Phillips: And also they have others that are going through in 22 and then I think there's some are even as far out as 23 and 24 when it's like you need to have a plan set up at this point in time. [12:03] JD: I also think there's not a lot of the states have gone the mandate route that California does. A lot of them have created like, oh, here's our state run option. But they're not forcing people to do it the way California is. [12:17] Chad: If I try to throw a logical brain on the types of businesses that have north of 100 that have yet to comply, knowing the way California is tracking who's north of 100, the restaurant industry has been slammed in California with what's gone. Those are going to be the businesses that are going to be hit first with these fines and it's going to be an uproar. [12:40] JD: You're like, I love this. You're like almost getting political here. Like imagine your restaurant, you went through all this Covid crap. They shut your restaurants down and now you get a $50,000 bill in the mail from the frickin. Don't. [12:55] Justin: Don't forget though, like a couple of things I would say, not just restaurants, hospitality, I think that's been probably the biggest area. But cherry talking restaurants, there's not a lot that have a hundred people. They have multiple locations. But the control group rules don't run in Cal Savers. So you can do by ein. So that might save a couple. [13:20] Chad: Well, by how they're tracking control group do run in CalSavers but they're not tracking it on the back end because the government doesn't know which of these businesses are part of a controlled group or not. But it is the client's responsibility to make that determination. But Mark, I beg to differ because it's going to the DE9 and they're looking at the average of the prior four quarters. That is not an acro sin. [13:44] JD: What is this [13:47] Chad: they're essentially looking at the average of those four quarters. And with holiday boom for restaurants and who they've hired, with restaurants needing to comply with not having people indoors but doing a lot of orders going out and deliveries, I think you're going to find that groups are maintaining 50 employees but are breaching 100 on their DE9. [14:09] Justin: I'm just going to keep hitting. [14:11] Mark: No, he's right, Mark. I just looked it up. [14:13] Eric Phillips: We were seeing a lot of growth within the restaurant side of things for, for this reason. And so the Last call it, 3/4 of last year we saw maybe 4x or so restaurants on our platform because of stuff like this where it is affecting them and if it's not the over a hundred, the under 50 or over 50 is going to go through in six months time. So it's coming down the line anyways. [14:35] JD: This stuff's going to get a lot more intense. Like there's going to be a lot less of these a hundred plus. But when you get in these other two groups you're going to, there's going to be a lot of these penalties coming in the mail and so it's going to be, it's going to be interesting. So. [14:50] Eric Phillips: Well, why do you think at this point, why do you think that companies over 100 aren't offering a retirement plan or haven't done the Cal Savers side of things yet? [14:59] JD: It's funny you ask because that's the next subject we're going to head towards. [15:04] Eric Phillips: Well, good segue. [15:05] JD: Let's get straight in. That was a perfect segue. [15:08] Justin: You did forget one headline though Diane mentioned in the chat, Barlow. But just to mention it because we're keeping so close eye on the nirvana. Maybe they refiled. [15:19] Chad: There's another again. [15:22] Justin: Yeah, okay. [15:24] JD: Actually skipped one in the sake of time. There's also a new Transamerica. Trans Am came out with a new small employer Solution brands popped up there. But we'll talk about it another time. Let's move on. Coverage. When I listen to some of the human interest kind of figureheads on different podcasts and stuff, a common theme is hey, we started this company because of this issue coverage gap. So give me the kind of corporate take for all our audience and for us here today. Like how do you view that? Like what is the coverage gap? What's gone wrong and how do you think human interest is here to solve it? [16:03] Eric Phillips: Yeah, definitely. And I'm sure that the marketing team is on and so I definitely have to answer it as the corporate world wants me to. But no I think that originally human interest started to make sure that people had access to a retirement plan because there were a lot of people that just didn't have access. Whether it was too expensive or too complex or for whatever reason, people didn't want to offer it for their employees. And so the biggest area of the market that we saw that didn't have this coverage was in the small and medium sized businesses. A lot of the industries like we were just talking about that have been vastly underserved for the past however many years that people just didn't think that whether the, they didn't think the employees were going to actually be using their retirement plan if offered one. We're kind of seeing the opposite on our platform today. And so the coverage gap is that there are so many small and medium sized businesses out there that just don't offer a retirement plan. And it's the really the only way for people to save for retirement. It's a pretty big travesty. And so what our mission is is to make it easier and make it extremely approachable for people to set up and start saving in a retirement plan. And so we're trying. Yeah, go ahead. [17:14] JD: No, I feel like that you nailed the two, which I not just if I start to pick on a disruptor, I'm not picking specifically on human interests right now. It's just kind of this group, the two big ones that everyone says like is stopping small employers from having plans is cost and fees. Right. It's too expensive for them and then the next one is too much work. Right. The administrative burden, those seem to be the top two. And now here I go in kind of dick mode a little bit. But the fees at human interest, the fees at other disruptors, which by the way, I'm a fee guy, like I like fees. You guys should charge money for your services. And the rates you charge that I see, they're the hard dollar cost to the employer are very similar to what these small businesses have faced. When I was selling them plans 15, 20 years ago, when Chad was selling them 10 years ago and Chad sells them today, the employer has always looked at that kind of cost. And so there's a conversation I want to have instead of a rip on human interest. And ericare is your fees, Eric, are very similar to the fees that they've faced all along in terms of hard dollar costs. So when you go to a 15 person firm and human interest wants to charge them a hard dollar, and God bless you, you should, it's the same stuff we've been Selling them since before human interest and Captain 401 even existed. So instead of picking on you, Chad, this fee, whether it's 2,400 a year, $200 a month, $150 a month. Is. Is this too big of a hurdle for these small businesses to get over to start these plans? Because it seems to have been historically, or at least everyone says it is. [19:04] Chad: No, no, but it's the. We're feeding that information to the average client, right? We're telling them they need tax credits to start a plan because it's expensive. That's why you need tax credits. The truth is it's not that expensive and it is a deductible expense even before the tax credit came about. But whether you're talking, and I think human interest in many of the disruptors are 120 per month. So call it 1500 a year. And you know, somewhere in the range of 40 to $60 per employee per year. [19:36] JD: Right? [19:37] Chad: We were. Right now we're 17, 50 and 45 per. We've been less than that for many, many years. Like, we're right in that. Oh, you. [19:46] JD: You also sell. You sell admin for a thousand flat. Let's not. I don't even want to pick. [19:52] Chad: I want to go down that path either. Either do I. I just want to go down the path of that cost. JD is not the reason why business owners are not making a decision to set up a plan. It might be what they think because that's what we're feeding them. [20:05] JD: Eric, I'm going to set you up for your thoughts here. But I also want to give the dirty side of it. In my career, early on, when I was selling, you know, back when this industry was more evil, we would sell startups for zero costs for record keeping, like record keepers did, because they had asset base, zero hard dollar costs. So the only fee you had was if it was going to go bundled, it was a very minimal one, or if it was going with the TPA. I mean, TPAs were as low as, you know, 1200 bucks or 1500 bucks. So my point is. Eric, help me. Does that shock you? [20:42] Eric Phillips: No, it definitely does not shock me. I think that there is a value in a price, and I don't think that the cost has necessarily been the reason why people are not saying that or not starting a plan either. I think that it's the overwhelming idea that it's going to be very complex and very difficult to start and it's going to take a few months to do. And so it's a cost plus, a, you know, plus I have to deal with this thing. However many years I'm offering this. And it's going to be every payroll run I got to deal with it. And every end of year I got to deal with all these extra, you know, notices that I got to deal with. And so I think it's the combination of, yeah, maybe the cost is worrisome upfront, but then it's the administrative tasks after that that maybe say somebody doesn't want to offer that plan anymore. And you know, by the way, I don't know if people are actually going to be using it. If I even offer it, are they going to use it? And so I think people get these ideas in their head and we're showing them, Eric. [21:42] Chad: Yeah, we're giving them those ideas, Eric. [21:46] JD: Kind of pivoted away from the cost, I think is good. Kind of like what Decentral said. It's really not about fees. I would just love for the whole disruptor community to stop waving the flag of low cost because it's kind of a spit in the face of the industry as a whole. And the reality is that, and this is not at human interest. The reality is that they're not that much cheaper. I mean, people run around talking about half the price, a third of the price. I go to your website and you're referencing 4.1K benchmarking and a 25 person $250,000 plan, which 401K benchmarking does not have advisor fees in it. Okay. It's taking an average of actively managed funds. I mean, give me the difference. What do you think the fair reduction is? [22:34] Eric Phillips: What we, we, we, we're not necessarily saying that we are the lowest cost provider. And we're not, we're not trying to be the lowest cost provider that's out there. I think that we, we do have some other disruptors, as you keep calling them out there, that, that's what they're saying. What we typically say is that we are affordable. We are affordable for a small business to offer a retirement plan. [22:53] JD: Well, not you, not you. I meant in general, you know, the guidelines of the world that all the, they're coming in here saying, hey, this industry's broken. And the first words out of their mouth are, one of the reasons it's broken is it costs too much. And I just want to state for the record, that's kind of bullshit in my mind. When it's real, apples to apples, that's not the case. Are there expensive ones? Sure. [23:15] Chad: Time out. Those are Two different points to debate. Does it cost too much or are the disruptors less expensive enough? [23:23] JD: Well, it definitely doesn't cost too much. [23:26] Eric Phillips: I think it's hard for business owners to find the fair cost though, because they don't know what they should be paying. And so we do see benchmarks all the time when people are paying a crap ton in fees because they don't know what they should be paying. And so it's not. I understand that there are a lot of options out there that are reasonably priced, but there are definitely people that are getting charged way too much today. [23:49] Chad: That is. That is very true. And that's the problem I have though, is that we keep feeding that. That beast that people are overpriced. If I looked at the percentage of the marketplace, in my opinion, that is out of whack. And when I say out of whack, let me say you're talking about a 60% variance from what would be a reasonable fee. If I looked at the percent of market that is out of whack, I would say it's less than 10% now. [24:17] JD: Well, Chad, that's different. [24:18] Chad: Back in the day, I've spent my [24:20] JD: entire career wondering how record keepers even keep the lights on, offering what they do for startup and small plans. So I take direct opposition with you guys. I don't think it's too expensive in the. That's what we're talking. Talking about here. We're not talking mid market, we're not talking large market, we're talking micro and startup plans. And I think the services that record keepers have provided for the. I mean, I don't want to put a number on it, but the 75 bips or the 80 bips or whatever it is to bring on a plan that has zero assets. Oh, bips. Shit. [24:55] Chad: I think so. [24:56] JD: Isn't fair. Okay. Eric went to the next number one, number two one, which was administrative burden. And, and I've heard you all talk about the paperwork and the weeks that it takes to get set up. And you know, I made fun of you in the poem for the, the 30 minutes or less. I usually. When you talk administrative burden, some of the first things that come out of disruptors are payroll feeds, you know, and syncing up with the payroll. Yeah, I mean, we've been doing that for 10 years. [25:31] Eric Phillips: You've been doing well for 10 years. Integrating into the payroll. [25:33] JD: 360. Integration with payroll companies is nothing new to the retirement plan industry. [25:39] Eric Phillips: What we have done, which is new, is completely payroll agnostic. We've gone to somewhere around 150. And that number is growing by the day as true 360 integrations. And so that's what's different is we don't have 10 payrolls that we're plugging into. We have 150 right now. [25:59] Chad: Let me make sure I understand. So you're doing that by getting a client login and hoping that the payroll provider has an open API and you're writing language essentially to pull the data from the client login. Thanks, Mark. You're not actually creating an integration relationship with that payroll provider as a whole? [26:19] JD: Well, some. [26:19] Chad: They are getting access to the Data. We are, J.D. [26:23] Eric Phillips: we are doing both of those things. It depends on the payroll provider with what they want to do with us. [26:30] Chad: So there's about, correct me if I'm wrong, I would say there's maybe 30 to 35 payroll providers that have the bandwidth or the clientele that you would even be interested in creating a relationship for. So there's another 115 in that example that you're saying we're not going to build something that integrates with them. We're going to build something that extrapolates that data from them. So we're going to build essentially a communication that pulls that data out. There's no way you've created 360 by partnering with the brass at those businesses with 100. [27:06] JD: This is kind of Eric's job, I believe. This is kind of his zone. Right. So, yeah, so. [27:10] Eric Phillips: So I do not work with the payroll partners directly. That is a counterpart of mine on the payroll side of things that does craft those partnerships and build those integrations. We have an integrations team. And what we found is that it's a general amount. Once you cross over a threshold of number of companies and joint. Joint clients, then the payroll companies are willing to do it because it saves them having to deal with their clients asking for this information as well. And so it makes things easier for, for everybody as part of the relationship. And so we have found that people are willing do it. Agreed that it's not 150 where we have the full 360, but there is a growing number that are willing to do it based on the demand from their clients. You know, a lot of people have to battle with the ADPs and the paychecks where they're doing everything. [27:58] Chad: How many. [28:00] Eric Phillips: Oh, man, that's a bummer. [28:01] JD: And Chad, before you go, I want to let Eric know this is, this is less of a debate of me because remember, this industry's blood Runs through my veins. Right. You're talking about someone who grew up in this industry. I work alongside these record keepers, these financial advisors. I'm clearly passionate about this. So I would love this conversation today to be. It's not so much me trying to attack the disruptor, but to learn a little bit from your perspective. And I'm hoping to kind of open your guys eyes a little bit too to some of the reality the way I see it. But in terms of 360 payroll, my only point was if you're taking it up to scale and making lots more relationships and really tripling down on that, then kudos to you and kudos to any disruptors that are doing that. My only point is this is not new. This is not something special. We're all aware of it. We were talking about it before Captain 401 even existed. We were talking about payroll fee. It's on a 360 level now. I think our industry has failed to continue to push that because we won't talk about this today. But I will warn you, be careful. Just because you have a 360 payroll fee does not mean that you have quality data when it comes to running 80 running tests and things of that nature. The data can still be flawed unless someone is really auditing that. And the person that needs to audit it has to be a very fucking intelligent, experienced retirement plan person. Not just someone in hr. I'll drink for that. And not just someone at payroll. So be very careful. Paperwork, contracts, tell us about and I won't attack you. Tell us about getting it set up in 30 minutes or less and then we'll see if the boys have any questions for you. [29:52] Eric Phillips: Yep, definitely. So the way that it works is the plan sponsor will receive an onboarding link and they can enter in a lot of that company information we set up and then they schedule time with our implementation managers who walk them through the rest of that process to set up plan documents, decide on plan design, but generally. And so we do have quite a few capabilities and options during that plan design setup. And so we walk them through that process with the advisor and figure out what makes the most sense for them and that business. And then they set it up and go and we do a couple of payroll deposits to make sure that it works back and forth. And then if it's a startup plan it does take as fast as a couple of weeks to get going on our platform. At times it's really how quickly do they want to go through and complete the company information and complete the Plan design call. [30:50] JD: As a third party administrator. [30:53] Mark: Sorry, go ahead, J.D. [30:54] JD: as a third party administrator who. And these, these three guys sitting here at the bar with us spend a lot of their time looking at census sitting down with small businesses. Right. Because that's the space they work in and adding that counsel to kind of get them to the best design. Because we all know the client doesn't understand this stuff. Do we have plug and play easy versions, kind of defaults that can get designed quickly? I guess I think the answer would be yes. But this is. How do you guys feel about this? Justin, Chad and Mark, this is kind of your area. [31:33] Chad: Can you do it? [31:34] Mark: Yes. Can you do it? Well, no. I mean if you're just doing a 30 minute setup, you're not consulting with the client to figure out what's best for them by any means. And you, if you say you are, then you're lying. But yeah, I mean, if you think about it. Yeah, maybe a safe harbor match, you know, that's going to be the appropriate fit. [31:50] Chad: Maybe. [31:51] Mark: But anything beyond that, there's no way. Or they make, know what's going on [31:56] JD: or they make some. [31:57] Eric Phillips: Yeah, definitely. I mean. Yeah, yeah. Oftentimes they are longer than 30 minutes. [32:02] JD: Sure. [32:03] Eric Phillips: But it's, it's not leaving them hanging out to dry. But we do have people that, they know exactly what they want and they have an advisor that's helping them guide them through that process. And so it makes it all just happen pretty quickly there. And so the plan design call is pretty quick. [32:17] JD: Yeah. [32:19] Eric Phillips: Hesitation. Sure. [32:20] Mark: If, if the advisor has and knows their shit and has taken them through every part of the process like we do. [32:28] Eric Phillips: Yeah. [32:28] Mark: In the console phase, then yes, you can write a doc that quick. [32:32] Justin: Justin, Justin, the advisor works with us first, takes our information and then goes there. [32:37] JD: Yes. [32:39] Chad: Joking. [32:39] Mark: I'm joking. [32:40] JD: I'm joking. [32:41] Chad: J.D. what I was going to say is mistakes. It's not necessarily mistakes. Like I think if, and I'm speaking for human interest now, I think that the thought probably is the vast majority of plans don't need cross tested that we're bringing in. So we don't need to consult on cross testing. The vast majority of plans don't need to carve out different groups for eligibility. So we don't need to consult in that. So we can create this funnel that's super small and narrow at the bottom. [33:07] JD: Yeah. [33:07] Chad: And, and set up a plan. Now, does it work for the majority? Only you would know that what I know in my relationship with the disruptors, the plans that we bring over are always written with very basic eligibility. I'm okay with that. There's nothing wrong with that. Always written with pro rata profit sharing with no accrual requirements usually maybe safe harbor requirements being 500 hours, no end of year. Reason being is it creates some efficiencies for testing. Okay for that again. But we're involved in that relationship now because the client's saying well I want to put some more money away and we can't do it with these disruptors because they're telling us it's super expensive. I think we also, we can be more creative. [33:53] JD: I think we also need to put ourselves and learn a little bit from the human interests of the world. We're kind of old school 401k nerves, sure as shit. And we're very prideful of the, the complication and the design and the professionalism. But we cannot be blind to what the consumer wants. And if the consumer wants to hop on a computer and be asked do you want your eligibility to be 3 months, 6 months or 12 months and they think they can handle that question or the little wizard can help them determine this or that or get some support and they can click, click, click and pop out a safe harbor match with basic provisions that's airtight. I don't think there's all evil and bad there. I think there's some positive. And maybe we can, maybe we can learn a little bit from that. [34:39] Eric Phillips: I think the idea is that sometimes that's what works. It's not a one size fits all approach though. If that's what you want to do and you go through and you click the setup links and you go through and answer those questions with some guidance involved then you can do it. However, we also have that implementation manager who helps them out and does ask those questions. And so it's not like every single plan on our platform is set up 30 minutes or less. [35:06] Chad: That is to me two things real quick, Justin. I see you wanted to talk. The first is that's the art of being a consultant is I'm not implementing a plan. I'm guiding the client to the end road that I know they need to get to because I already know whether or not cross tested is right for them. I already know whether or not age weighted is. I've looked at their data and I need to get them there and I need them so I can't just ask them questions, I need to lead them secondarily. And Crystal just made this point in the chat room. This is one of my issue with the Disruptors, JD and even with the bundled providers, I don't see any circumstance in which pro rata should be written into a document, because I can write cross tested and I can run pro rata. I can give everybody the same percentage under that. But with cross testing, I can at least try to create some favorability to my owners, my executives, create some grouping there. And so when I get these constant docs from the bundled providers that are all pro rata with safe harbor accrual, what I realize is that they did zero consulting on what the right type of profit sharing is. They just ask the client to check the box. [36:15] JD: Yeah, fair enough. [36:16] Eric Phillips: We do fair enough for sure. The good thing about human interest is that we have those options available. And so I hear you that everyone, [36:25] JD: everyone has the options. We're all on the same docs. It's about. About counsel, you know, and consulting people. I was actually defending you here, though, because I. We have Chad, and I've had this fight for years where Chad can get very nerdy and very intellectual with his design. And I always come back with, can the. Does the client understand this design, and are they going to understand it in year two and year four and year six, or are you just creating potential problems down the line? And this is where I'll be of two minds here. This is where I also have a little bit of problem with the narrative of. And it's not just a disruptor narrative. It's surely not a human interest narrative, just yours. It's also a pooled employer plan narrative, and I've talked about it ad nauseam on this show. I do not like teaching prospective clients that this shit is easy because they have a job to do. And the more you run around telling people that it's a piece of cake and there's not a whole lot for them to do, and it's point, click, click, you're fucking up the whole system. You know, that's not how it should work. Now maybe. [37:38] Chad: Jason, they're disruptors. We want to fuck up the system. And I agree. I agree with that side of it. Get in there. Let's. Let's be open to change. I agree with JD Though. I don't like telling clients, we'll take care of everything. Don't worry about it. You just have to sign our paperwork. That's giving the wrong perception of what setting up an employee benefit that is tied to the IRS and Department of Labor. It should entail responsibility. Do what is right. [38:08] JD: Guess what, Eric, we're gonna play. We're gonna play A fun game, everyone's favorite game. And then we're gonna come back with a subject matter that is going to tell you about something that I think you guys have actually crushed it at and that we could learn a ton from you. So there'll be fun times for Eric after this one. [38:26] Eric Phillips: The hell is really going on with this? [38:28] Mark: Eric, did you know what you were getting yourself into before? [38:30] Eric Phillips: I did know what I was getting myself into. I have been a fan of you guys for a while. I've been in the industry on both sides, the traditional side and the newer type of side. And so I did know what I was getting myself into, and I'm okay with it. [38:44] JD: So he's being a great sport. He's being a great sport. Whatever sins he committed through human weakness. [38:51] Chad: We're trying to create insight for folks. You guys are clearly crushing it, and you're doing a good job. We love. We love the fact that. That we're creating more plans for people and businesses that need them. [39:08] Eric Phillips: Exactly. [39:09] Chad: We also. I also feel good of it as a sales director because we're going to be getting a lot of those plans in a year or two. [39:15] JD: Wow. That was the first step. [39:18] Chad: We're getting them covered. [39:19] JD: That was the biggest. Dick. Chad, just out. Dick. Move me big time. Saved that. [39:23] Chad: I saved that up for, like two weeks. I've been thinking about using Eric. [39:26] JD: That was harsh. [39:27] Chad: This is good. [39:28] Eric Phillips: This is good. Even thinking about it. But the good thing that we've been having is that a lot of people need a retirement plan. That's. At the end of the day, a lot of people need access to a retirement plan. And it all comes back to that same thing. There's a lot of different providers that are out there that can. Everybody can win. What we're trying to do is we're trying to make it easy and remove some of those barriers. And same thing that you guys do. We just go about it in a different way. It's. That's the difference to. It is you guys. You guys help, consult and guide. Not that we don't, but we. We do that while making it easy and approachable for somebody that has never had a retirement plan before. Like, that's. That's. [40:02] Mark: There is a ton of good that comes out of that. Right. And you can't argue that you guys are bridging a gap that needed to be there because for sure, way too many clients do not want to go through the complexities of what we do. They just want it done for. [40:14] Eric Phillips: No, no, no. [40:15] Chad: Hold on, hold on. Hold on, hold on. [40:18] Eric Phillips: I'm finally talking. [40:19] Mark: You shut your mouth and said, yeah, all right. I really want to know what you [40:25] Eric Phillips: have to say, though. [40:26] Chad: We are now more complex. You know what? No, no, no, no, no, no. [40:30] Mark: Yes, we, we can be, we can come across that way. You can't argue that. [40:34] Eric Phillips: Right? [40:35] Chad: That's the narrative. If a client creating. [40:37] Justin: Shut up, Chad. [40:39] Mark: If a client wants to not do shit, they're going to gravitate towards something like that versus when we come in and show them all their options and what their responsibilities are. So they are bridging the gap to get more companies participating in plans. [40:52] JD: I would say I'm kind of agreeing with Chad. I honestly think that what Eric and human interests and guidelines these companies got going for them is I think Eric, you and I and me representing like the industry as a whole, we're kind of doing a lot of the same [41:09] Chad: things you're trying to. Absolutely. [41:11] JD: You guys are just a lot better at making these little headlines on how you describe it. Because when you say low cost, we're low cost too. When you say avoid administrative burdensome, what do you think a tpa, a third party administrator does? Jack. No, that's what we do is take that work off your desk. So when we talk about payroll fees, that's what our industry works on. I think we're all working on those same things. And that's why I get pissy is when I. When I see you all and I'll be nice to you now, like branded. So. Well, I kind of sit there in my mean scowl and go, they're not doing anything different than we're doing. Why are they running around talking on podcasts like they somehow are the Uber to taxis when they're doing the same shit we're doing? They're just simplifying it here, doing this or that anyways. So I just think you're better marketers at that shit. That's what I think. Mark, what's the name of the game? [42:10] Chad: Oh, let Eric talk. He needs to talk. [42:12] Justin: Yeah. [42:12] Eric Phillips: No, no, no, no, no, no. [42:13] Justin: I'm gonna say no. Eric, rebuttal please. [42:17] Eric Phillips: Yeah, I think that. Understood. I think, look, the end goal is all the same. We want people to get a retirement plan and get it going. All agreed there under the hood, proprietary record keeping platform. It's integrated with 150plus providers. It is guided through technology. And so we're able to keep costs nice and low for everybody. And so I hear you that we do things similarly and we're doing a lot of the same things that have been happening. I think we do it a little bit. A little bit different, obviously, or else we wouldn't exist as a company and companies wouldn't think the same about that as well. [42:54] JD: I don't know about that. I think we can talk about that'll actually parlay well into the next subject, which is the nice, nice one, but [43:02] Eric Phillips: because I've been waiting for this for five minutes. You said nice like five minutes ago. [43:05] JD: What the hell are you looking at, Mark? Rock me a. Rock me a good and solid Lamer game. [43:18] Justin: All right, Eric, you said you apparently watched our show. Are you familiar with the Lamer game game? [43:25] Eric Phillips: I am familiar with the Lamborghini. [43:27] Justin: All right. No. No explanation needed. [43:30] Eric Phillips: Yeah. What would millennials might call hot or not, I believe is how. How it could. [43:35] Justin: Hey, hey, hey. I'm a millennial. Okay. [43:40] Eric Phillips: Yes. Let's do it. [43:42] Justin: All right. Again, I always like to preface these a little bit with I kind of bartered in our last show to have the show retired. You know, I feel like it's been going because downhill a little bit. So then jd, text me last night, of course, with, you know, put this together and you know, I try, I tried my best, but guys, just bear with me on this one, okay? All right, first question. And Eric, I'll come to you first. I think a lot of people are doing this right now. You know, start the new year off fresh, try to get healthy. Lamer game Dry January. [44:18] Eric Phillips: I'm going to. Especially because we're on retireholics right now. Definitely lame. I'm all for personal goals and setting, you know, your sights on something for whatever period of time you have, but I don't know if just cutting things out for a month is necessarily the answer to, you know, your holiday worries. [44:38] Justin: Got it. [44:39] JD: Like that. [44:40] Justin: Jd, [44:43] JD: I probably have coronavirus and I'm still drinking, so obviously lame. [44:51] Justin: Justin. [44:52] Mark: Nobody likes a quitter. [44:53] JD: Mark. [44:57] Justin: Oh, boy. Chad. [44:59] Chad: Oh, I'm surprised you asked me. You know my answer. I mean, you could tone it down a little bit, but why give up something that brings so much joy? [45:07] JD: I think this might be the very first Lamer Game question where we need an answer from Mark. [45:13] Justin: Yeah, I was going to say I'm going to take some heat for this because I'm partaking in dry January at this moment in time. [45:21] Mark: Wow. [45:21] Chad: You finally admitted it. [45:23] Mark: I actually admitted it. How does the chat bar feel about this? [45:27] Justin: I don't know. [45:28] Mark: All that shit we've talked about are on guests that don't drink. [45:31] Chad: Like, wow. And here's Mark. Hey, I will say this. I. I'm flying out to Cali at first week of February, and it will be Mark's reunion into drinking again. And I'm super excited to see how hammered he gets. The video together. [45:48] JD: Get the video. [45:49] Justin: It's gonna be. Wow. All right, next question. Moving on. Nothing to see here. All right, Candles. They're pretty cool, right? They make rooms smell nice. You know, they're nice mood setters, if you will. My question to you are candle scents, specifically the smell of the candle. Ones that like the scent is intended for a particular season and that season has passed. Example, Peppermint mocha. Right. It's a Christmas theme. Lamer. Game. Burning those scented candles far into the next year after those seasons have passed. [46:31] JD: This is a very detailed one. [46:33] Justin: It was. Yeah, I have a gingerbread candle burning, so that's made perfect sense. [46:41] Eric Phillips: Eric, game. Yeah, I'm game. I have no issues with that. If it smells nice, it's good. [46:47] Justin: J.D. [46:48] JD: well, I mean, what would the alternative be? You pack it up for next season. Yeah, okay. I'm talking to myself. No, you need to move on from Christmas. You had that time. It's the same way. You take the tree down, you take the lights off your house. Hopefully my neighbors watching this. You take the lights off your house in January, and you should be putting the candles away and moving on to something a little more appropriate for the new season. [47:15] Chad: Yeah. [47:15] Justin: Alfonso just asked a good question. What's the January Center? Really? [47:18] JD: That's a good one. [47:20] Justin: Justin, you look like a candle burner. [47:24] JD: Yeah, yeah. [47:26] Mark: I'm texting back and forth at human interest rep right now. [47:29] Justin: Okay. [47:30] Chad: Okay. [47:31] Justin: Then, then, then candles. [47:33] Mark: They're great. [47:35] JD: Wow. [47:37] Mark: Chad, Holiday candles. Yeah, they got to go away after December for sure. Any other candles throughout the year? [47:43] Chad: I'm game. Use it. Like Eric said. You like it? Burn it. [47:52] Justin: Next question. Eric, whether it's yourself or someone else, when you're on a virtual meeting. Zoom. Call WebEx, whatever, and the person's very handsy when they talk. Is that lame or game [48:07] Eric Phillips: handsy, like [48:11] Chad: on a zoom. Interesting. I'm totally. [48:13] Justin: Yeah. I just realized today I had, I don't know, five or six zoom, and I'm. I don't know how. Why it took me so long to realize I'm incredibly handsy. And that's why right now I'm, like, literally sitting on my hands because it actually it annoyed me. [48:29] Eric Phillips: So somebody should play that HR video again for you. [48:34] Mark: I like this guy. I didn't want to. Or that [48:40] JD: game. [48:40] Eric Phillips: Let's look at why. Why would you have an issue of [48:42] Chad: sexual harassment in a workplace? [48:44] Eric Phillips: A little bit of this. [48:45] Justin: Yeah. [48:46] JD: Jd, I like the question from the chat bar, which is always, I'm with him. Like, just don't say goodbye. This is a classic zoom. Oh, I. Bye, everyone. And I, I'm guilty. I'm doing this lame Cool Guy 1. When it ends, like, even with the clients big fiduciary viewing, I'm like, okay, see everyone. See ya. Like, there's got to be a better way to end the zoom. So I'm going to say lame on the hand gestures. [49:13] Mark: Justin, I gotta say game for sure. [49:16] Chad: Are you trying to explain stuff? [49:18] Mark: And you're like, hey, we put the hces in this grouping and the nhces in this grouping. [49:22] Chad: Oh, yes. Justin hammered tonight. [49:25] Eric Phillips: Double dip right there. [49:27] Mark: You know, it's just so much more helpful. I mean, trying to communicate over a screen. [49:32] Chad: Chad, I'm in, I'm in, I'm in. Especially with the wave goodbye every time. [49:38] Justin: All right, well, you know what they say with my mug full of. [49:43] Chad: You know what they say? [49:44] Mark: What they say, mark, I was going to take your secret to the grave, man. [49:48] JD: Yeah, you know, it's, you know, it's funny. Everyone out there is. That's a serious moment when Mark writes his boss a serious email and it says, hey, I'm really sorry, I just want to get your take on this. Like, I'm trying to be healthier in January. And he's like, he's literally like on his hands and knees, metaphorically speaking in an email. Like, I'm kind of not going to drink January. Like, is that kind of okay or is it not okay? And I'm thinking on my other end to be like, fuck you, you got a drink, it's the show. And then I'm thinking human resources may not be okay with the fact that I mandate drinking alcohol of my employees. [50:30] Justin: In addition to that too. I should preface it a little bit more that I was challenged against somebody in a weight loss challenge. And I don't usually do that kind of stuff, but it was for me. Like, I think drinking can definitely influence that for me. So if I cut that out, I'm a good chance I could win this thing. So it's important I'm competitive. [50:54] Mark: So I think it was a record keeping provider that challenged you to that. [51:00] JD: I promised good sport air care, a nice little area where I actually pat them on the back for some good work. Human interest. You know, you guys have built all these partnerships and I think in the after show, maybe we'll get into talking a bit about how many plans you guys have gotten to date. But I would say when you first came out, I was pretty pessimistic and I didn't really. Because you guys didn't come out very advisor gung ho. I know you've shifted that a bit and we can talk about about that in the after show too. But what you did was you brought on a ton of plans. And the way I see it is you really partnered with the payroll providers, the human resources firms, the zenefits, the benefits firms. And remember when I was giving you shit earlier and I was saying, well, that's nothing new because, you know, we could have done that 20 years ago, 15 years ago, 10 years ago, and we tried, but we have failed miserably as an industry to make these cohesive partnerships work. And when I say make them work, I don't mean necessarily the feed of the data, I mean the sales, you know, the actual sales partnerships. And you all have crushed it. So give me a bit of your perspective on that. I'm assuming it has a lot to do with your current role and how you see the success you had and how you see it going forward. Because we have got a lot to learn. [52:30] Eric Phillips: Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's, yeah, we've talked about the payroll relationships and that's the key go to market strategy for what we've been up to. I mean, we've nailed the relationships. And I think a lot of it is that the payroll companies know that they have to find a solution for their clients as well. And so they've been working hand in hand with us because they know that their clients are asking for this. And so they work well with our, we call them partner account managers that are out there in the field working closely with the payroll reps across the country. And so it's a really nice little handoff there where they care about, they get asked about retirement plans and what they can do with that. And they need to be able to compete and offer this benefit as part of their solution as well. And so we're the perfect plugin there for them. And so that's why it's been working. [53:15] JD: When you say that they have to, are you referring to the, are you referring to paychecks and the one I can't name? [53:25] Eric Phillips: Indeed, yes. Yeah, so as well that. But also, if you're trying to work with client as a consultant, as you guys mentioned earlier, it's these payroll consultants. They want to help answer their problems for their clients. And a common question that comes up in that process is, who do I use my 401k with? And so they have that answer when they know that it's human interest. And so we care a lot about working with those payroll partners for that reason specifically. [53:54] Chad: And I feel like we know that paychecks and automatic data Processing have their own offerings. Right. What you guys have done better than anyone else is you've been able to go after the payroll provider and get them to pitch the service. I have created. J.D. remember the group in Texas? [54:18] JD: Yeah. [54:18] Chad: Group in NorCal. Like, I have really gotten deep into these. A couple of different payroll providers that are bringing on a lot of clients every year. And I've showed them a strategy where we'll take on all the work I'm pitching, kind of what you guys are doing. But I can't get their people to talk about 401k. I can't get their people to set up the conversation to get me involved. And that's what you guys have really done well, is you've taken those payroll providers that don't have their own solution and you've gotten them to give you the opportunity, which nobody else in the industry has cracked. [54:55] JD: Who are your top. Who are your top two or three or. You don't have to say. Who are some of the good. We're not ranking them here, but who are some of the really good strategic partners that flow business towards human interest? [55:08] Eric Phillips: We have worked closely with Zenefits, which. Which is a good one for us, their payroll, but do a lot more than that as well, closely with Heartland. Some of the partner account managers that are here could probably enter it in the chat more than I could, to be honest. But Paylocity is another one that we've worked close with. So it's, there's quite a few. It's, it's. It's all of those 150. We have some sort of relationship with Netrex. There you go. Thank you, Melissa. [55:34] Justin: So. [55:34] Eric Phillips: So it really depends on the region as well as where. Where we're at and what they care about and who wants to lean in with us. Because it's like you said, it's hard to get them to care about it, but some care more than others. [55:47] JD: Yeah, I mean, we, we saw this path. I mean, we, we saw this 10 years ago. [55:52] Chad: JD talk about, as your sales director, [55:54] JD: I've tried and I talk about Paylocity. It seems like a natural connection. Right. It's like you look at, you look at Justin and Mark, who are out there slinging 401ks, knocking on doors of advisors, seeing plan sponsors and then you got this payroll person who's doing the exact same thing. It's like it's a marriage made in heaven to flow business towards each other. But we've just always struggled. And I don't just mean us plan as I consultants, I think the industry has never really hit that one out of the park. And then here comes Guideline with Gusto, who my understanding has just fueled a shit ton of their business. And here comes you guys. And I'm sitting around going, oh, watch these guys slow growth over the next 10 years. You know, like we'll see where it's going to go. And all of a sudden like, wow. No, they're, they're really kind of chugging along and my best assessment is, wow, they've really figured out these strategic partners a lot better than we have. [56:55] Eric Phillips: It's such a turning point in that payroll conversation that it's 401k is just so linked into payroll. As a business owner, when you're figuring out your payroll, that's just a question that comes up. Every single business owner that we talk to often it's, they're figuring out their payroll at a similar time as their 401k. So yeah, that's exactly right. [57:19] JD: I'm going to go to you first. I'm going to go to you first, Eric Chat bar champion. And you feel free to vote for one of your co workers. That's fine too. Who is your vote for the chat bar champion tonight? [57:36] Eric Phillips: Well, at this point I gotta, I gotta say Melissa Wallace because she just helped me answer a question not too long ago. So it's her. [57:43] JD: Solid just on. [57:48] Mark: I want to say it's everyone who got in the pineapple on the pizza debate with me in the chat for the first half of the show. But I gotta go with Jason Grants again, man. He had a banger earlier. I can't remember what it was, but. [58:02] JD: Chad, is Justin doing work with Jason Grant or something? What's going on? [58:05] Chad: No, Jason just loves. [58:06] Mark: How is that possible? [58:08] JD: He could throw some stuff behind Hackler's back at us. They wouldn't know. Okay, so grant again, Mr. Palmini. [58:20] Justin: Greg just solid as always. Greg did well. [58:25] Mark: Are you doing work with Greg or something, Mark? [58:31] JD: I don't, I'm actually going to say Alphonso just because he stroked my ego. I like the fact that he felt like the show was ending so quickly and he wants to hang out and have some more. So I'm Going to go Alfonso. And I don't think he's made semis before. [58:45] Chad: Yeah, yeah, he's made semis before. [58:48] JD: Well, that was really enthusiastic to said so. I was almost gonna vote for you because I know you'd lose, but then I'm like, that's a waste of time. [58:59] Chad: There was someone named Delia in here earlier that had one comment that blew my mind, and I loved it. She ain't here anymore. I wrote down Diane for her fried her fired comment. But for me, it's Heidi. Heidi was in there all night long. She had good content. She was funny. Heidi was. Heidi was chiming in. Okay, and that's my vote. [59:23] JD: Heidi it is. All right, Brandon, rock up. We'll close this thing out. And can. [59:29] Chad: Can you give those to me again? My software went sideways on me. [59:33] JD: Jason, Gray, Greenfield, Alfonso, Heidi, Melissa. I get that, right? [59:42] Chad: You sound like shit. [59:46] JD: That's Covid. Plus some vodka and an ultra beer. [59:50] Chad: A large ultra beer. [59:52] Justin: Are you in the office or at home right now? [59:54] JD: I'm at the office. Can't be at home. Covid's, like, floating around everywhere there. [59:58] Mark: Do you sleep in there then? [1:00:00] JD: Yeah. [1:00:03] Chad: Okay. For some reason, I cannot put in Heidi's name, so I'm just going to. She is choice five. [1:00:09] JD: Okay. [1:00:09] Chad: All right. Heidi was my vote case. Anybody was questioning that. Heidi is choice five. [1:00:16] JD: Oh, maybe she's not here anymore. No, she's here. [1:00:19] Chad: She's here. It's just something with my keyboard. I don't know. [1:00:23] JD: Heidi's gonna be like. That's gonna disadvantage me big time. [1:00:27] Chad: Yeah, call. Call it. Call in a revot. [1:00:36] JD: While these votes come in. Eric, we're gonna do a little after show. You can stick around it and take some more of the abuse and heat, [1:00:45] Chad: or you can crush it, Eric. [1:00:47] JD: Or you can bail, and then we just completely talk shit about you for like 20 minutes. [1:00:51] Eric Phillips: You know what? Actually, I got. I got something else on, so I. I will. I will join in on the after vote. I do have a poem for you guys. The way you started the show. I'm gonna like this guy. [1:01:04] JD: Love it. Love it. [1:01:05] Eric Phillips: Do we want to announce the winner of the poll? [1:01:07] JD: Yeah. Yes. The winner is Mrs. Choice Five. Congratulations, Choice Five. Heidi, you're the winner. Steven, thanks for the get better. I appreciate that. Heidi, let us know in the chat bar which mug you'd like. Justin, a chat or Mark or JD and then private message me your address and we'll get that out to you. Eric, thank you so much for taking our shit for all the human interest people out there that are getting pissed off when I was coming at you. Yeah, fuck you. And for all the people that tuned in, thank you. Love you. Appreciate you, Mark, Chad, Justin, making this business better. I love you like brothers, man. I love you like brothers. And. Yeah. [1:01:58] Justin: Oh, there was no nuggets tonight? [1:01:59] JD: No, no Chad's. Maybe there's not some Chad's nuggets in the after show. You never know. Melissa, thanks for hanging out. [1:02:08] Eric Phillips: Can I. Can I lay it on you guys? [1:02:11] JD: Yeah. [1:02:12] Chad: Well, do we need to play out with. [1:02:13] JD: Oh, your poem. [1:02:14] Eric Phillips: Yeah. [1:02:15] JD: Yeah. [1:02:15] Mark: Maybe the poem should be the ending. [1:02:17] Chad: Yeah, maybe the poem should be. [1:02:19] JD: Okay. Yeah. [1:02:19] Justin: Okay. Yeah. [1:02:23] JD: Take it away. [1:02:25] Eric Phillips: When types of retirement. When hopes of retirement feels forlorn, you must only look to your newest industry unicorn with the interest of humans, top of mind and an integrated platform that is truly refined. Trying to improve the nation's savings gap by working together. We'll do it in a snap. Where people need access to a 401k. I appreciate the retireholics for having me on the show today. So please raise your drinks as I offer this toast and thank you for being such great hosts. [1:02:57] Chad: Yeah, I like it. [1:03:00] JD: Eric, don't you feel like an asshole now? [1:03:02] Eric Phillips: It's impossible. [1:03:10] JD: Very good, Very good. Thank you for that glorious poem, Eric. Brandon, play us off with some music and we'll head to the after show.