Josh Itzoe: EBSA Reforms, PE in 401(k)s & Aggregator Trends

[0:00] Chad: I am not. Shoulder surgery is going to kick me in the face. Yeah, the als you fixed it yesterday. I did. I did fix it. I pulled on a box and my shoulder popped, and it felt a lot better. I mean, I can lift it by using my other arm still. [0:14] JD: But you can't do the old. The old Mel Gibson in the movie. What movie was that? Where he just bang it into the wall? [0:20] Chad: Die Hard. No, no, Lethal one. Oh, that's Bruce Willis. You're right. There you go. [0:27] Mark: Wrong guy. Wrong guy. [0:29] Chad: Yeah. Sorry, guys. [0:31] Mark: Hey, guys. I think Chad's in a better mood today. [0:34] Chad: Oh, much better mood. My AirPods are working. Oh, that's an understatement, bud. You didn't. [0:42] Mark: Oh, God. [0:42] Chad: Brandon, do you want to do the honors? Since you tipped them off? [0:48] Mark: What's going on? [0:49] Chad: Oh, Brandon's definitely got it recorded. Brandon's the one that set Chad up. Wasn't Brandon the one who set chat off on that call? [0:54] Mark: And then Chad blamed me, yelled at [0:56] Chad: me for no reason. It was not just Brandon. [0:59] JD: No. [1:00] Chad: Mark had a comment. Say you did, too. [1:04] JD: I. [1:04] Chad: You know what? I came in and I called. [1:06] JD: I called him a boomer, basically, for. [1:09] Mark: I want to watch that entire thing. And you could watch it, too. And you. You will see that I did not partake in any jabs or anything at you. For once, I was covering my mouth. [1:23] JD: Yes. [1:24] Mark: You don't believe me. It hurts my feelings. So now I know. [1:28] JD: This is. This is on the agenda today. Nate Moody. We will. We'll discuss that a little bit. [1:32] Mark: Well, you're lucky you're one minute left. You would add an actress in there. Don't forget the amendment, guys. The new name. [1:42] Chad: It's not his name anymore, right? [1:43] Mark: We can say his name. The guy sitting across. Yeah, in the middle here. We can say his name. [1:49] Chad: Yes. [1:50] JD: All right. [1:54] Chad: I had an advisor call me today, and she started off the conversation with. I've been listening to your podcast lately. Like, oh, we'll see where this one goes. It's all positive. It was really good. [2:05] JD: We're not as irreverent as we think we are. If someone. If someone just listened in, they'd be like, oh, another boring podcast about 401k. [2:15] Josh Itzoe: No, you're getting your edge back. [2:17] JD: Yeah, man. [2:18] Chad: Oh, thank you, Joshua. Thank you. [2:35] JD: You're going to have a really, really bad time, sir. Welcome, everybody, to another episode of Retireholics. We're getting our edge back. But Brandon did, like, invites go out. Where is everybod? We might be getting our ads. [2:55] Josh Itzoe: Just put everybody on the in the chat bar. Just add them all to it. It'll be fine. It'll be like seven of us total there. Zoom is not sending out the thing to the registered people. I don't know what's going on. [3:06] JD: We gotta, we gotta. [3:07] Chad: I don't get them. [3:07] Josh Itzoe: Does anyone else get. I don't get my. My panel. [3:10] Chad: I didn't get anything. [3:11] JD: Well, I did anyways. What about intro? Welcome everybody to another episode. [3:16] Chad: I did Alex. [3:16] Speaker E: I got it. [3:17] Mark: I got it. [3:18] JD: My name is James Douglas Carlson. I'm joined by Justin McNeil, Chad Johansson and. And Mark Palmini. [3:30] Chad: That's a first. [3:32] Mark: That's. I like that. You know what? [3:34] Josh Itzoe: Good. [3:34] Mark: Take this off. Take it off. [3:36] JD: And Justin, you want to intro. Yes. [3:40] Josh Itzoe: Not that Mark. It's not that type of show, buddy. [3:42] Chad: I don't know if it's that type of show. It is not starting off that way. I think we're getting an edge back. It's Josh. Josh is here. Everybody welcome. [3:49] JD: Yes. Apparently the rule has been amended. We can now say Josh. It's his name at any time. There's just another advisor that has taken his place. [3:59] Josh Itzoe: JD's jack sniffing somebody else now. [4:01] JD: Yes, I am. And his sister is super hot. Brandon. Let's do headlines. Don't worry. The good news is that this is recorded and will go out to thousands new breaking news. That's not in our agenda, boys. Daniel Aronowitz nomination was approved today. He will now be the head of the Employee Benefit Security Administration. The Senate voted 51 to 47. God, we are so political these days. What the fuck? 51 to 47. It's not like this is Cash Patel or something, is it? Was there some disagreement here amongst these people about whether you do the job for sure. [5:04] Chad: They heard that he pulled out of the retireholics and they're like fuck it, we're not voting for him. [5:08] JD: Then that was it. That was it. But he's in. He's big. If and in case anyone wants to know, he's big on anti lawsuit stuff. So I'll quote him here. He says we will end the era of regulation by litigation. And he's also quoted as saying we will be eliminating the fuck the ERISA litigation abuse that's turning benefit plans into liability traps. So he's not a fan of these Schlicter types and is going to try to use his role to bring an end to this kind of stuff. Or at least. Daniel, [5:49] Chad: I'm not going to say I'm terribly disappointed in that thought. I think we all need to continue to get better. And maybe people are getting better because they're fearful of litigation. I hope that's not the case. I hope they're getting better to, to do it for the right reasons. But I. It's quite frustrating to have plan sponsors tucking their tail in fear of a lawsuit. [6:10] JD: Let's. Let's move on to the next one because it's right up. [6:12] Josh Itzoe: Let me just ask. Don't you think though that's more the industry because let's be real like you're only. Unless you're committing fraud. You're only a mega plan if you're getting sued. So any small plan that's a badge of honor is about getting sued. Like it's just a misplaced. No, but it, but those operational failure. Okay, but fiduciary liability and litigation. [6:36] JD: But it's. So let's look at his comment. He's saying that end the era of regulation by litigation. So what I will tell you is and I know you know this to be true, a lot of those lawsuits get such attention and visibility that it tends to trickle down. The best practices tend to trickle down into the minute small plans. So it's not as though we're not impacted by that litigation. We are in several ways. Agreed. We won't end up in court, but it impacts how we run our plans. [7:08] Josh Itzoe: Which I think is a, which is I think a good thing was more to kind of Chad's point. I think if as an industry we fear monger especially smaller plans because I, I know people do it. They kind of like sell by fear to these companies. And I just think it. Frankly I, I think it, it. It's just not accurate for it's not small plans and fear. [7:33] Chad: You're saying the fear is not accurate. The, the, the mistakes that exist. The industry needing to get better. It still needs to happen for the small plan marketplace. But the fear of lawsu. It shouldn't exist there. You don't think that that plays a huge role in that though, making them realize or think that hey I can't [7:52] JD: get away with this so I need [7:53] Mark: to do it right. [7:56] Chad: I don't think they know that. [7:57] Josh Itzoe: Well small companies, small plans in general. [8:00] Chad: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [8:03] JD: I think to it says point the smaller companies are more in fear of some type of fix it that's going to end up costing them tens of thousands of dollars for sure. [8:13] Chad: Yeah, that's a better. [8:13] JD: That's not the kind of you're going to see in lawsuits. [8:17] Josh Itzoe: I think that's what advisors should be talking to clients about. Is like, I think you build trust when you're like, look, litigation. You're not a litigation unless you're committing fraud. You're not a litigation target. You're just not big enough. The money's not in it for the plaintiff's attorneys to make it. [8:32] Chad: Unless you're a small plan and part of a pooled employer plan because then it is worth it. [8:38] Josh Itzoe: But I would argue that's not a small plan. You're actually. [8:41] JD: Yeah, that's a big one. [8:42] Chad: You may be a small plan, but you are part of a big plan. [8:46] Josh Itzoe: You were an advisor that went and said, look, the real risk you have is operational failure and operational failure. You may not. You're not going to get sued. But it is expensive. You want an HR person with a career limiting maneuver have an operational failure that costs six figures to correct. Yeah, that. [9:06] JD: I used to say this. There are some small businesses that something like that would just put them out of business entirely. Like they can't keep going because someone up for four years you know, not doing something they should have. I got a lot of stuff to cover today. I want to hit a bunch of these fairly quickly. I want to go to this next one, which I think we can handle quickly. But it's right up. It says Ali. I believe the. The Financial Industry Regulation Authority is now offering training for advisors in crypto and blockchain. So it's. So I think you're kind of. Do I call you anti this stuff like cryptocurrencies or what have you. But here we go. The Financial Industry Regulation Authority is clearly saying, okay, this is a tool that advisors need to be, you know, sufficient at and we're going to provide training for them to learn more about it. [10:03] Josh Itzoe: I don't think that's a. I don't think that's a bad thing. I think to be able to talk intelligently about it now, if I was still an advisor, I'd probably be talking my clients out of adding. Still talking their plan. [10:12] JD: But I think. But do you not see this as a sign that that might start being a boomer way of thinking? Mr. Itzel. That the world. [10:20] Mark: I'm just surprised that JD wasn't the one who started this. To one that wanted to go to the masses and start educating. He might be behind all of this for all we know. [10:29] Chad: J.D. [10:30] Josh Itzoe: really wants to talk about Droblin's anti pep. That's just what you want to jump to? [10:35] JD: No. [10:35] Chad: How many do you owe already? It's so. Because that's a number you owe. [10:40] JD: Oh, he doesn't drink. We're after a drink for him. Guys, [10:44] Josh Itzoe: for the chat. [10:45] Mark: You said Voldemort's name twice. [10:47] Josh Itzoe: I'm gonna say Nate Moody 50 times tonight just to make you guys drink. [10:51] Mark: Oh, that doesn't count. [10:52] Chad: You know what? [10:53] Josh Itzoe: That you. [10:53] Mark: You're out, bro. [10:57] JD: You're the one who actually drink for it, so. [11:00] Mark: Oh, wow, look at you. [11:01] Josh Itzoe: We're chilling. [11:02] JD: You drink for it. Okay, I wanna. I wanna go to the next one, which. [11:05] Chad: Hold on, hold on. One call. You gotta make one comment on this, jd. You know, I have to. They're educating on blockchain. They didn't just come out, say, we're gonna educate on crypto, because that's what people want to hear about. No, no, no. The engine behind it being blockchain. There was a fair amount in that article about the need to understand blockchain in order to get to the understanding of cryptocurrency. So kudos there. [11:27] JD: Brian Brushaw is going to drink for it, so, too. So we're in good hands. [11:30] Mark: No, I got it. [11:31] Chad: Exactly. [11:32] Mark: Well, relax, everybody. [11:33] JD: Well, Chad. [11:34] Chad: Everyone was getting drunk tonight. [11:35] JD: Chad. You're gonna like this next one then. Because this was odd and not our normal conversation, but I was watching a podcast on YouTube and they had the chief executive officer of. Oh, Jesus. Nasdaq. That's one, huh? [11:52] Mark: Is it? [11:53] JD: I'm. I don't know. Someone smart enough to know that, and [11:58] Chad: I guess it is. [11:59] JD: Okay. [11:59] Josh Itzoe: Yeah. [12:00] JD: And let me finish my thought and I'll drink this tequila. Jesus Christ. Jd, they are. They have just asked for approval to move to blockchain for their. Their trading platform. They would like to tokenize all securities. And when I say that, I don't just mean Bitcoin, Ethereum or Doge or whatever. They want to tokenize, like, every investment. Like, even if you bought Meta or Google or something. And by the way. And you can keep going towards other things, maybe even smaller firms or what have you, but I'm getting ahead of myself. They want to tokenize the whole thing, the whole trading platform. And, you know, this trading platform I'm talking about is a big one. It's a big deal. It's got all the tech companies on it and everything. And I thought something really interesting she said. That caught me off guard. And I was like. She goes, we eventually will get to a 24.7trading platform style where there will be no open and no close of the market because of the blockchain and because of this tokenization. I think she then corrected herself to say, it would be like a 24 5. Like they'd take the weekend off for whatever reason. But I was kind of sitting there like, whoa, I want to talk about this on the show because it seems like next level. Does that catch you off guard it so at all. What do you think about that? Good, bad and different. You don't care. You're so boring these days. [13:27] Josh Itzoe: You know, it seems like. I read the article. It seems like DTC is like, it's going to be kind of like behind the scenes. Don't you think? It's more. Hey, guys, you don't have to tell me. [13:41] Mark: I hear it. [13:42] Josh Itzoe: I know, but it seems. I don't know, it seems like maybe it's more marketing at this point than anything. Like, oh yeah, trying to get out in front of Chad. [13:53] JD: Give them the blockchain. Give him the blockchain. Hold on. [13:56] Chad: No, no, I think he. I think he just said what I would. What did you finish with there, Josh? [14:01] Josh Itzoe: I. Seeing as like trying to get out first mover advantage versus like the New York Stock Exchange or. [14:09] Chad: Yeah. [14:11] Josh Itzoe: To kind of position themselves as a compet from a competitive advantage. [14:17] JD: You're back in blockchain, right, Chad? [14:20] Chad: So that's what I was going to say. Someone big in the space has to eventually make the leap and start to leverage blockchain and their financial transactions. And it sounds like we have the first domino to fall. And if one domino falls and it's going to be successful, then you're going to see others start to migrate to this digital ledger system that blockchain is. So I think this is great, JD the way they acknowledge it as giving the options of like you can do one or the other. If you're comfortable, you're not comfortable. I think it's their way of dipping a tote in the water into Josh's point, trying to get in front of others that might go this route. What it's not going to do is get people to buy anything on their platform, on their exchange to. To use a ledger. They're not going to go. I don't even know what it stands for and I don't want to do it again. They're not going to go to the. I'll drink this NASDAQ because of that. But eventually I think others will follow suit and start having a ledger behind the scenes for all transactions. [15:23] JD: Well, I think. [15:24] Josh Itzoe: I think what. Sorry, go ahead, J.T. [15:26] JD: i would say, I think that if it is built on blockchain and does have a lot of these efficiencies of Trades. And then I go back to the. I'm being the general consumer here to this like 24,7 trading. That will be interesting to the people who do this for work, for hobby, for fun. I think there's something you said people wouldn't go there. I disagree. I feel like, oh, if they get there for that. [15:51] Chad: Yeah, you're very, very right. [15:52] Josh Itzoe: But I think this is more around them targeting not the retail investor, but more institutional investors. I mean that. That is agreed. And I think in general what happens is people overestimate like what technology will do in the short term and they tend to vastly underestimate what technology does over the long term. [16:13] JD: That's fair. [16:14] Josh Itzoe: That's blockchain three, four years ago, right. You know, everybody was kind of talking about it. Now this could be like some more real world use cases where it starts to get out. It probably wasn't as implemented, going to be as implemented as quickly as everybody was saying it was going to be three years ago. But I do think over the next three to five years you're going to start seeing much more implementation of it because it just takes time for technology to get embedded and reach enterprises. [16:45] JD: Well, watch what's happening here because I feel like simultaneously with the current administration and with things like this happening with a lot of companies jumping into the bitcoin thing, even the 400k thing, I think what you're also going to see is this whole like stable value or cash equivalent type thing popping off. There's a lot, there's a lot of talk around this for like e commerce and saving money and all kinds of stuff. It just, all the things are starting to connect together and I think that buckle up. This is going to be fueled to the fire of not just cryptocurrency, but this new digital age of blockchain and everything. And by the way, Chad was saying six years ago, you know, seven years ago. So it's happening. Let's move on to Joshua says he doesn't even know who Terrence Powers is. Terrence Powers is the founder and president, chief executive officer, whatever. I think I owe a drink. By the way of the Platinum 401K, which its name might be slightly misleading because it's. He's actually got huge. Did he get huge? I don't know. Maybe in multiple employer plans and pooled employer plans. And he has now sold, been acquired by Daybright. Who is Daybright, you ask? Yeah, don't. They came on my radar because they actually bought our buddies. Past guests on this show, Petros and Yanis of the Spectrum. Spectrum Consulting Consultants up in the Pac Northwest. They bought them earlier this year. And so now here they are buying another tpa. Damn it. And. Oh, sorry. Daybright used to be called the United States. Come on, jd, you wrote your notes down. [18:46] Josh Itzoe: That was their name. [18:47] Chad: Well, it was the United States Benefits Plans, something. [18:52] JD: Retirement and benefits partners, which even. It's like I still never heard of them. But they're. They're a pretty big shop, obviously buying these TPAs, but that does like all types of benefits. Health benefits. Oh, Jesus. Health benefits 401k. Financial planning, consulting for HR. You know, consult. Damn it. [19:15] Chad: Geez, J.D. [19:17] JD: okay, I'm gonna shut up. I'm gonna drink some tequila. [19:20] Mark: Just blowing any. [19:22] JD: Any thoughts about this at all? [19:25] Mark: I just want to hear what you have to say. [19:28] JD: Oh, God. I do not like drinking tequila as my penalty drink. I don't know why. [19:33] Chad: Did you see me almost vomit over this spicy pickle flavored vodka? Sour pickle flavored vodka? That was rough. [19:41] Josh Itzoe: I can't. [19:42] JD: I can't hear it. [19:43] Chad: Here would be my comment. It's so we are obviously relatively disconnected from the pool employer plan world. It's not an area that we spend a whole lot of time in outside of acknowledging why we don't think it's a great fit. Terence Power is the guy in that space and has been for some time. He's what I'll call the authority in that space. And so everybody's kind of looked to him and his successes and said independent third party administrators can do this too. And every event I go into with that community, he is there and he's talking about why they're the best thing since sliced bread. To see him get acquired. To see him get acquired does not surprise me. What does surprise me is that he got acquired. Now, I would have think with. If he thought the horizon was as good as it was for pooled employer plans, why would he have not ridden that out longer? [20:42] JD: You're such a conspiracy theorist. I'll tell you why. No offense to Mr. Maybe he's ready [20:48] Mark: to stop Working man. [20:49] JD: I think he's older and it's time [20:51] Chad: all people will stay in place is what it says. You think if you're Daybreak. I know, but you think if you're Daybreak, you're going to let the guy that is the authority in this leave the moment you acquire that book. [21:02] JD: Okay, let's stop and pause there. No, you're right. And Terrence did say this will allow him to focus on servicing advisors more, which is code for sales, I believe. So I think you might be right there. But every acquisition, Josh and I were talking about this earlier starts with the comment of like, all the employees will remain in their positions. It's like, okay, yeah, for how long? And what's, what's the deal here? I think the, the real thing is like, sorry to say it, hopefully I'm not offending anyone is. I think he just did they put a check in front of him, there's an amount that was enough for him to say, yeah, I want that check, give it to me. And then they work out a deal. So. [21:46] Mark: But he's a microfellow. [21:48] Chad: But if, if you thought that that industry was going to thrive in the way that you've been talking and they put a check in front and, and you don't want to necessarily work, don't you sit back and go, all right, I'll pay someone 300k, 400k, 500k, a million dollars to step in here, continue to grow this because I hold all the equity in the company and I'll get a much bigger check in two years. [22:10] Josh Itzoe: Well, so here's the counter argument to that is, and I hear what you, you're saying, but you're making the assumption that valuations are going to continue to expand. I don't know if you listened. A couple of months ago, Peter Malik from Creative Planning was on a podcast and he was saying that he thinks valuations have gotten very stretched and you're going to start to see some big firm the other way, that recap. And you're going to see some pretty significant down rounds. And so maybe he's, the guy's thinking like, hey, you know, I'm gonna kind of take the money and run now because maybe I think it's going to be worth less. [22:48] JD: We're going to talk later about him pulling the trigger on Sage View. So we'll talk about that in a little bit. But that's Peter at Creative. [22:56] Chad: Interesting. [22:57] JD: Who's bought Sageview. But yeah, I mean, the valuations you would think at a certain point have tapped out in terms of how high they get. But I like what you're saying, Chad. What you're saying is that the wind in sails of pooled employer plans is no longer puffing the way it used to. All right, let's get to the big debacle of the week. The Internal Revenue Service comes out with final regulations on the mandatory Roth catch ups. And the way they worded caught a lot of people off guard. A lot of very smart people read it in a way that it said, oh wow, they kicked the can to 2027. By the way, this article here I did as a joke because I read it this morning and it says it from whatever the National Broadcast Company or whatever it's called said that literally push it, pushing it to 2027 in this article. And I'm like, so people are still getting it wrong as of this morning and like you had an option that you could, yeah, go ahead if you want to do it for 2026, by all means give it a whack. But you really aren't going to be held accountable in 2027, which is not the way to interpret the rule. We have now heard from Fred Reich, Nevin Adams Forensic Group. I mean everybody basically all the big heads telling you no, no, no, no. What this rule means is what this, this final regs mean is if you need to put it in Place 1 1, 2026, if something goes wrong in the coming year and you make some mistakes, your payroll feed's not working, you're struggling to get it set up with your record keeper, whatever happens, the Internal Revenue Service is not going to be coming down on you hard. They're going to give you some leniency and give you this good faith basis comment. But come 11 2027, you better run this thing tight as you should to the regs. But no, you do not have the option to opt out of it for the coming year. That is not how to read this. And I saw so many people posting that felt that way. So anyways, how do you feel about this? It's Azer Guest that have you noticed this in your career where regs come out and there's like a gray area and people are like arguing and debating about it because this one really cause a kerfuffle for everyone. [25:26] Josh Itzoe: Well, I mean I'm looking at the IRS website right now and it says the provisions in the final regs relating to the Roth catch up requirement generally apply to contributions and taxable years beginning after December 31, 2026. [25:38] JD: Yeah, that's where they it up. [25:39] Chad: That's where they it up. [25:40] Josh Itzoe: So they okay and then raise accurate. [25:44] Chad: But they're not extending the transition period. [25:47] Josh Itzoe: The government screwed something up. [25:48] JD: What? No, I wouldn't even call. I don't mean they screwed it up. They wouldn't back off that language. They're just saying that that does not mean that you do not have to do it in 2026. You do. And that's per the original regs. Right? This was the final regs, the original regs did not poof, go away and disappear. These were just answering questions that we had to get everything solidified. And so they're simply saying, no, you got to do it. It's just we're not going to crack the whip on you until 2027. And again, so many people went off the, the deep end on this one. And I wish, you know what I hear? I will end it with this. [26:27] Chad: Don't end it. [26:28] JD: Okay. But what frustrated me was every article I read simply kind of just re quoted the text and no article stuck their neck out to say the facts. And here we are as an industry reading these articles because we want to run good practices and we're reading and they're not giving us the answer to the question. We all want to know was this saying extended to 2027 or was it not? And so shame on all the media that wrote these things and wouldn't give us that fucking answer. [27:00] Josh Itzoe: Yeah, but all of us and most of the people in the chat right now have been quoted a lot in the media over the years. Would you agree with that? [27:09] JD: Sure. [27:10] Josh Itzoe: Financial journalists don't know what they're talking about. A lot of times they call, they either have an angle. [27:14] JD: Yeah, right, right. [27:16] Josh Itzoe: They just don't like. I think if we're expecting journalists to be like the experts, that's journalism that they just don't know what they're, they're trying to write about content in an article and they don't have. [27:27] Chad: Well to be able to assess the problem in this situation was a couple of the major publications that we all rely on for clear and, and concise information did exactly what you just described. [27:43] Josh Itzoe: They're a little vague. [27:44] Chad: They were vague. They quoted what they read but they, they bolded, they underlined, they italicized, they capitalized this years after 11 or 1231, 2026. And so anybody who's not getting into the actual rags was going to interpret that as, all right, I have till 2027. So what did everybody else do? They replicated the communications that they read from these large publications that we all trust. But JD the reason I said don't transition yet was twofold. We have to acknowledge Bashaw's comment up top which says implant Roth conversions are going to go free. Like no tax, no tax hit. Implant Roth conversions, you gotta, you gotta correct it. They're not going to come to know that you're absolutely going to get a 1099R for that. That implant Roth rollover that, that needs to happen there. [28:34] Josh Itzoe: Well that's. Retirement's always been the. The piggy bank. Right. Whenever the government needs to like be make the math work on something to pay for it feels like retirement historically. [28:45] Chad: Like that's why they did this. [28:47] Josh Itzoe: That's why they did it. Like they're you know, let's pull this is you know into today. [28:53] JD: Yeah. [28:53] Josh Itzoe: We'll kind of kick it down the road. You know. [28:55] JD: Chad, isn't. Isn't this literally tied to the big beautiful build? Didn't this need to go down to. It was part of the revenue. Right? [29:04] Chad: Yeah. But it was part of getting secure 2.0 over the hill as well is to cover some of the expenses that the tax credits and other pieces were creating. J.D. before. Before you transition. Can we. Let's touch on. Let's. I think this is a good topic and I think that it will get some place. Let's touch on a few things that the person we don't speak of mentioned there. Are there creative plan design ways to minimize the risk or burden operationally here? [29:33] JD: Yeah. [29:33] Chad: I'll give you a lot of talk. We've heard a lot of talk recently about just make all catch up contributions. Roth, all of them. So if anybody has a catch up, it's Roth. No matter what. Can't do it. They were very clear in saying you're not allowed to do that. [29:46] JD: You know, you can do though. You could say you have a right as a plan sponsor to say no to catch ups. You could go on your document and say no, we're many. We're not. We don't do catch ups here and then you're free and clear of this whole thing. I don't think that's something you'd want to do. [30:02] Chad: But you burned at the stake by by. If you're a large employer for sure you'd be burned at the stake. He mentioned a separate catch up election that defaults you as Roth. Remember the. It's not the election that's the issue. You're allowed to auto elect them into Roth once they hit catch up. If they fall into this 145 you don't need their blessing in it. So there's no need for a special election in that scenario. Unless Moody, damn. You're trying to say that maybe if we get them to think about it then the mistake won't exist from payroll. [30:39] JD: I had a client literally today that I explained this to and they don't have Roth currently. They've never had Roth. And she said to me like we don't want Roth in our plan. And so I, I admit anyone in the chat bar or Chad, you want to comment like, well, if you have catch ups and you have people that are age 50 or over is a gun to your head. Now that Roth is available to everyone. It is, you're gonna add it and it's available. [31:09] Chad: The only other option to take away ketchup. [31:11] JD: So she's being forced to add Roth in a general sense when they didn't want to as a plan sponsor. So. [31:19] Chad: So another thought here. An advisor reached out to me today on this topic. Somewhat related. We were talking about simples a little deeper, but he said, hey, I have clients that are in brokerage only approach and I have to create if, if we add Roth to the plan to handle these catch ups. I now have to have a separate investment account for every person that has a brokerage account. It's now a Roth account. That's a massive amount of paperwork for me to do to open up a separate Roth account for Josh and a separate Roth for JD A separate Roth for Mark is like, I don't, I don't want to do that. I need to move this to a package provider. [31:56] JD: Wow, that's interesting, John. [31:58] Chad: Yeah, not something I thought about there. [32:00] JD: You just said that all those brokerage account plans commonly referred to as like trust accounting plans might be great targets right now. [32:12] Chad: Absolutely. [32:13] JD: Package record kept type of product. [32:16] Chad: Absolutely. [32:19] JD: One other thing for everyone to understand since Chad wanted to turn this into a public service announcement, a little education moment from the entire holics is that. And I'm gonna drink for this, is that this is only for like W2 comp, not FICA. So if you're like a sole proprietor or a partnership or you get K1s or whatever. Is that right? Like this does not count. This is W2 comp. That 145 that we're talking about, which is the gate you need to get through to be able to do this. [32:49] Chad: Yeah. The distinction there is. It doesn't count towards the owners of that business if the ownership is a partnership. Well, they don't have any income that's subject to fica. [33:00] Josh Itzoe: Right. [33:00] Chad: So they don't have that issue. I have to imagine that's an Ackerson too. I don't actually know. But all their, all their W2 employees still are. But sole proprietorships and, and partnerships don't have the. Those owners don't have to comply with this. [33:17] JD: I mean, we've got clients like that, so. Okay. Yeah, well, now, you know, hopefully there's not too many people that are still confused about this out there. And Josh, it so being the that he is, has let everyone know that whenever you're reading an article at one of these media things and it's not written by Nevin Adams, remember, look through it through the proper lens and filter the person writing that doesn't know what the they're writing about. They just interviewed a couple people, put in some quotes. It's true. It's very true. It's very true. Josh. I think my brother, God bless him, the producer of the show was able to get some fin talk clips that were passed along his way and we. This is a new segment we do. You've never experienced this. I'm not sure what we call it, but Brandon, it's our little social media, you know, Pin talk. We called it Stupid. That's the name of it. Okay. Stupid is the segment. Go ahead, Brandon. What we do here, Ed, so is we, we jump in that world of TikTok and see how people learn about financial services and financial planning and stuff like that. So go ahead, Brandon, kick one off. [34:35] Josh Itzoe: You've got $50,000 to your name and you put it in the s and P500, you're still gonna be fucking broke. [34:41] Chad: Fuck that. [34:42] Josh Itzoe: In roulette you could take a hundred dollars, win ten spins in a row to be a millionaire, bro. [34:50] Chad: Does that mean drunk? Stop. Sick shit right there. Does that math, man? [34:56] JD: Is he not wrong? He had a million to get hit 10 in a row. [34:59] Mark: Yeah, dude. Compounding interest. [35:01] Chad: Yeah, every time, right? [35:03] JD: Amazing. Amazing. [35:05] Chad: 36. [35:05] Mark: It's 36 to 1. Do the math. [35:08] JD: Last time I was at the casino playing roulette, which was not a long time ago. [35:11] Josh Itzoe: If he was an advisor, I guarantee you he'd get clients. [35:15] JD: Yeah. [35:16] Chad: Bold, confident, terrifying, but true. [35:20] JD: And he swears at just the right time. So that's. I wonder if there's some kid on tick tock watching this. And he's like in all seriousness going like, yeah, damn straight. The Standard and Porters 500. I'm going to the roulette wheel, bro. I, I think there could be some, some logic to this guy. We'll have to check in with him at a later date. Let's play another one, Brandon. I got some more serious ones. I feel like, Right. [35:52] Speaker F: Beagle will find all your 401ks and put them into one spot. Believe it or not, have been left behind at old jobs, which is like $100 billion worth. But Beagle will find all of yours and put them into one spot. So you can collect it. You'd be surprised how much money you've probably left behind at your old job. All you have to do is enter your info. It'll tell you what 401ks you still have out there, and then you can collect them. It only takes a few minutes, so tap the link right here, bro. [36:15] Chad: I'm following her. [36:17] JD: Right? [36:18] Chad: She's got it. [36:19] Mark: Why, Chad? [36:20] Chad: Josh, she's smart. [36:22] JD: Mark, were you aware of Beagle Itzel? Do you know what Beagle was? [36:28] Josh Itzoe: Yeah, I interviewed that guy on my podcast. [36:31] JD: Okay, good. We had them on this show, right? Yeah, we did. [36:34] Chad: Yeah, we did a spotlight on them. [36:37] JD: So I. I thought it was cool to see that on Tick Tock. I thought it was very well done. And it even made me think, oh, I need to go check if I have old 401ks. And then I realized I've never worked for anybody but my daddy, so wouldn't be a thing. All right. [36:54] Mark: I don't know that part of that too. Just. It just annoys me. I don't know people who don't know that. You do. Like, what are you doing, man? You. You can't even. You don't even know where your money is like that. [37:05] Chad: Mark, think about who you were when you were in your early 20s and late teens. [37:09] Mark: Responsible, looking at my money. So. So, Mark, my God, dude, I'm od control freak about that kind of stuff. So I'm. I. I'm the opposite of you, apparently. [37:21] Chad: Would you say I am, Mark, control freak about that kind of stuff? [37:28] Mark: Yes. No. [37:30] Chad: No. [37:30] Mark: Absolutely not. [37:31] Josh Itzoe: No. [37:31] Mark: This guy will be like, open Venmo and be like, oh, my God, I have like $3,000 in here. And he has no idea. [37:39] Chad: He'll open his underwear drawer and find a thousand dollars in it. Okay, that's true. Okay, but here you can. $5,000 walking around his house. [37:49] Mark: When he moved from California to Missouri, him and his wife found like $5,000 in gift cards. I'm not even exaggerating, okay? [37:57] Chad: I. My wife has a tendency to never pull money or gift cards out of cards, like a Hallmark card. So, yes, she did open them and find a bunch. But here was my point, Brooke. When we were in Colorado, I was working three jobs. She was working three jobs. One of those was at a school district. She got a government ran retirement plan that has since changed three different providers. We've moved multiple states, five different addresses. I can't track it down now. I can't. It's like really, you know, like maybe 1400 bucks. The last time I was able to track it down. [38:34] JD: I know a guy at Beagle. [38:37] Chad: That's my point, though. It happens when you worked a lot of jobs. Young. [38:41] JD: Yeah. [38:42] Chad: Like, it happens. [38:42] JD: Phenomenal. I think it's phenomenal. I, I love it. [38:45] Chad: Great. [38:45] Mark: I'm just saying those people annoy me. [38:47] Josh Itzoe: Well, AI means these kids can't get jobs now, so they're not. [38:50] JD: Can I, Can I ask for quick moment, like how they do it? Is it the. Is it those forms that we file as third party administrators every year for, For a left behind accounts? Where are they getting their data? [39:06] Chad: That has to be it. What is it the 5,000, 330 that they're pulling that data from? Has to be. It's your social. [39:14] JD: How embarrassing. [39:15] Chad: But they're not getting that. You don't have that with simple IRAs. I don't think you have that with the government plan. Like, Brooke was under. So I don't know if they'll find. I will check Beagle for Brooke because I know those dollars exist. It's just hard to track. [39:28] JD: That's. But Hackler just said that that's not how it works. Maybe that's part of it, but that doesn't tell you like, what vendor it's with. So they've, They've like. Oh, they've API with like record keepers and like, I don't know how it's built, but whatever. It works, apparently. So we'll move on, man. [39:50] Chad: We don't talk about. They get a kickback from the assets they uncover. [39:54] JD: Oh, that was my problem with the guy when he was on. I was like, how are you thinking? [39:57] Josh Itzoe: So they like most things. They're, they're, they're an RIA because they're referral. They refer. That's where they, that's where they're making their money is. They're referring. When they find these, they're referring this to a custodian. [40:11] JD: And I think, yeah, sure, you're bundling it all together. [40:14] Josh Itzoe: That's how they, that's how they. I think that's how they monetize it when they say, hey, you should roll this over to Vanguard, that they're getting paid. [40:22] JD: Oh, do they give you options like this? I thought they just had their own option. They actually let you go take it to Vanguard or whatever. [40:30] Josh Itzoe: I thought when I talked to the [40:31] JD: guy, you're probably right. [40:33] Josh Itzoe: That's how they were. I think that's how they were doing it. And because the sec, if you, even if you don't provide advice, but if you Refer. You have to register as an investment advisor. [40:44] JD: We could. We could check the tape and go back, or we can. We can invite the guy back and talk to him. Maybe we'll do that. Brandon. Let's. Let's play the next one. [40:53] Speaker G: You have $10,000 on a 401k. Take it out and do this instead. One of my favorite house hacks is a 3% down pay payment on a really good deal. And in most situations, $10,000 is an exemption from your 401k that you can put into a house, which means it comes out tax free, penalty free, and you can use that as a down payment for your house. You're not actually buying a house. You're buying a home. This is actually not just a place for you to live. It's an investment. And a couple years later, you're going to refinance it or take a home equity line of credit. At that point, you can pull out a stack of cash. You can use that as a down payment now on another. Another piece of property. Now you got one. [41:27] JD: Yeah. [41:28] Speaker G: For free. Because the cash flow on the second one eliminates your biggest expense. [41:32] JD: I just want to be clear before you comment on arms. [41:35] Josh Itzoe: That dude's a totally a. [41:37] Chad: He was a hunter in the NFL for a while before. [41:41] JD: Before you comment on this. I followed his exact strategy, and it's working really well for me. But how do you feel about this? It's. So take it out. [41:49] Chad: That's legit. [41:50] JD: No, I'm kidding. [41:51] Chad: I was like, what? [41:53] JD: I am leaving for Texas tomorrow, everybody. I'm flying out to go look at some more properties. Okay. And so what do you think about this advice on Tick Tock? [42:01] Josh Itzoe: I mean, I think any financial advice on. On Tick Tock is shady. [42:07] JD: That's. You can't cast that. [42:08] Chad: We just saw some good beagle advice. You can't say any. Don't be that inclusive. [42:14] JD: How dare you. [42:16] Josh Itzoe: Most. [42:16] JD: Most. [42:17] Chad: I don't know. [42:18] Mark: I don't. I don't. I don't trust a guy who. I can see his socks when he's sitting there with his we socks and a glass desk where you just look down at your thighs all day. That's weird, man. [42:30] Josh Itzoe: I don't. [42:31] JD: I don't know. Definitely like, fit dudes. Fit, confident tan dudes in tight pants. You shouldn't take financial advice from them. [42:44] Josh Itzoe: Here's. [42:45] Chad: Here's my actual question to all this guys because we've done this segment a few times. Do you think he believes what he's saying or is he just looking for Clicks. [42:55] Mark: I think there's a little bit of both there. But I think, I think this guy here believes it. [43:00] JD: I guarantee you if we research this guy, he's got a website where you can buy a guide or purchase his program or something. This is just marketing to get you to go dive into him deeper and then he's gonna sell you on his process or something. Come on. [43:16] Josh Itzoe: I love all the wealth, like all these like influencers and you know, if you start teaching a course to people about how to make other money, I never trust that because I'm like, if you were really that good, you would stick with me. You wouldn't just make the money. You wouldn't be selling a course that's [43:34] JD: like the self help people that, that write like how to succeed books. And then you're just like, what have you, what do you, what do you do? Oh, I write books on how to succeed. Like did you like run a business at one point or like sell it for a billion dollars? Oh, no, no, I just, you know, I've thought about this a lot, [43:52] Chad: Josh. That's exactly why the retireholics do everything for free. [44:00] JD: We have an evil plan as well. It's to sell you our merch. Brandon, I think there's money. All good influencers make money on their merch. I think there's one more. It's I'm. There might be. Is there or is there not? And if it is, it's long new [44:17] Speaker E: executive order that was signed Thursday. It put in some nice, nice things for the 401k. Traditionally your 401k, you could invest it in the stock market and you let it sit there and there's not much else you could do. That now allows you to take your 401k money and invest it in an alternative asset. Or you can invest in hedge funds and private equity firms and invest in like actual projects that a lot of millionaires and billionaires invest in. And that's how you become so wealthy. Those things. 5x and 10x your money in five years. Obviously, like you have to pick the right investment. It's super risky. You could lose it all also. But like, for the most part, you can take your 401k money now and diversify it and leave some in the stocks and put some in private equity and put some in VC and have that ability to invest where you didn't have it before. [45:02] JD: Josh, this guy read Trump's executive order, he's got it all figured out. [45:06] Josh Itzoe: Don't trust anybody with a Fu Manchu and all black [45:11] JD: in A serious moment. Can I pivot you from this to private. Private equity in 401k and the Trump's executive order and the debate that's been just flaming in our industry. Where do you stand on all of it? [45:27] Josh Itzoe: You know, I posted something I've been off LinkedIn for like I've been, you know, off the grid for a while. [45:34] JD: Don't insult your own intelligence. [45:36] Josh Itzoe: But I'm something recently. I think everybody who's screaming, oh, participants are asking. I think that's a joke. I don't think, you know, private equity. The really interesting thing is if you look at private equity is an investment like the stock market. We can argue about active management and whatnot, but if you look at the data on active management in public markets, the vast majority of active managers fail to beat their benchmarks year to year and it gets harder over time. So why would it be different on the private equity side like there are. If you look at a lot of the VC and private equity managers, most don't return anywhere near what this guy is talking about. Outliers that obviously do. I think, I think M and A and we could, we could talk about this. But I think M and A has devoured our industry wealth. Shops, retirement shops, property and casualty TPAs. [46:34] JD: Connect the dots for me here. What, what about mergers, acquisitions [46:41] Josh Itzoe: of these. I think special interests like they want pools of capital, they want access to $12 trillion. [46:48] JD: Yes. [46:49] Josh Itzoe: That's how they get management fees. And so I think a lot of this is pressure. It's not that participants are asking for this. A lot of things in our industry you've got P is not different that it blows away the, the indexes. Brett, I would, I would, I would argue. [47:07] JD: Did someone say that? [47:09] Josh Itzoe: Some that do. But point being is I think this is more of you've got, you've got that industry that is pushing hard on the administration that want to get access [47:20] Chad: to pools, to that money. Absolutely. [47:24] Josh Itzoe: This isn't a bottom up employees coming in saying I want private equity unless they listen to Fu Manchu and saw him on TikTok. I think most people, they're not asking for it but as an industry and [47:36] Chad: no, you, you're, you're right, Josh, in that but what they are asking for is the same access. They want the same access that the people who have millions, that make millions get, get to invest in. And that's what I think is trying to happen here. [47:55] JD: Accredited investors. [47:57] Chad: Yeah. It's not, I'm not saying it's happening [47:59] Josh Itzoe: for the right reasons. I don't Think people are asking for this. I think this is something. [48:05] Chad: So you used the term this. You use the term this, Josh. They're not asking for this. They're asking for access to the same investment opportunity that the people who have millions get to invest in. [48:19] JD: And by the way, I think if you did survey, I don't think they'd ask for it on their own. But I think if he did line up 100 participants and properly explain like giving them access to more sophisticated investments like this, whether by the way, which we haven't talked about, whether that's in managed accounts or target date funds, I think a good majority of them would say, yeah, I like that concept. I want, I want that to be part of my 401k plan. I need to tackle Schoffner and the chat bar. I originally was all for this. People know this that have watched the show. I, I thought like, wow, yeah, let's. Because I believe the hype that the returns had been really powerful over the last five to 10 years. I'm learning more and more that that's a bit of a fallacy that the returns haven't been all that in a bag of chips. But also, Brett, it's illiquid. I don't think is a problem. I think the record keepers. Yeah. And the mutual funds and the, and the, and the, and the, the money managers will, will deal with the illiquidity. I don't think that's going to be a problem in defined contribution plans. But I also don't think that the returns are what everyone told me they would be. But can I say something again that we all have to know? [49:34] Josh Itzoe: It's the power law that goes into effect. There are certain. But it, it tends to accrete to the winners. And so the question right there, you [49:42] JD: don't, you don't net out the vast [49:45] Josh Itzoe: majority of the losers. You hear about the winners. And so you know, how are you going to identify that? And you have an employee that comes and says I want this. Well, that's great. As a plan sponsor would I want to touch this now? If you do it with inside, I guess I mean that's how it's going to share implications. [50:00] Chad: Small sliver of a managed account are significant. [50:04] Josh Itzoe: If I'm a plan sponsor and I'm like, I now have to do due diligence on this, there's no way I'm going. [50:09] JD: Okay, okay. This is another argument that everyone sees happening, which I really think is. Is not the right argument. First of all. And I don't think this is my statement. I think this is really a fact. This is happening. So just so everyone knows this is happening. Voya, Empower Hancock. This is happening. The train has left the station. Okay, so this is going to happen now. Where it's going to happen is it's going to happen in target date funds, it's going to happen in managed accounts. And I, I would bet you a good sum of money you're going to turn around in five years and it's going to be part of the great, great majority of target date funds and no one's going to give a rat's ass. [50:51] Mark: You know, it's just, what's a good sum of money? What is that? [50:55] Chad: What's your bet? [50:56] Mark: Yeah, you said, I'll bet you a good summer. [51:04] JD: I would go pretty big. I'd, I would bet someone five grand right now. [51:11] Chad: Cover it. Mark. [51:14] Josh Itzoe: Happening. [51:15] JD: It's happening. You can't stop it. [51:17] Mark: Hey, can you, can you give me odds? [51:24] JD: Another. [51:25] Josh Itzoe: That brings up another good point. So here's an interesting thing. If you're an advisor and somebody just posted, I think. [51:31] JD: Think. [51:32] Chad: Yep. Don't say it. That's what I'm trying to get to. [51:35] Josh Itzoe: But think of, think about the conflict potentially I have now as an advisor and am I recommending this to a client and what if the firm that has a stake in my firm is [51:52] JD: one of the conflict. The conflict conflict. Conflict of interest. Well, that would be interesting. Schlichter would love to snoop around that. But I honestly think the way it's going to happen more generally is you will recommend target date funds. And those targeted funds, many of them will play in this space and they'll have little slivers in their asset allocation that will be allocated to these alt investments. And you know, if they do well, performance wise, they'll tout that. They'll, they'll, they'll wave that flag that their fund's doing well because they've got these alt investments in it. Like, it'll be really interesting to watch happen, but the debate's over because then [52:30] Josh Itzoe: you go back to, and this has always been my philosophy is we talk about returns. You can't invest your way out of a savings deficit. I would much rather us focus on like the most important financial ratio in the world is savings rate. If you have a high enough savings rate. And so that's, that's kind of my concern a little bit too. Advisors, we focus so much on like the investing side. If we got better on the savings [52:59] Chad: rate side, automatic features will handle all of that Joshua. [53:04] JD: Yeah, and by the way, that's boring. That's no fun to talk about. [53:08] Chad: Hold on JD we gotta mention that who does not be spoken of's comment of. It's a circular equation here. And that most of the private equity money, we're talking about businesses and people who have a lot of money to invest, who also own the companies that want to then have these investments inside their retirement plans. [53:30] Josh Itzoe: But they're getting that already because if you look at the vast majority of wealth firms, they're all building alternative investment solutions. [53:38] Chad: No, I'm talking about record keepers. I'm talking about those that are holding onto the trillions of assets that are looking at ways to create more profitability within their current business structure. [53:50] Josh Itzoe: Absolutely. [53:50] Chad: I mean they have holdings in those private equities. You mix those private equities into the platform, they're double profiting there. So it is. He mentioned human interest. He's like, well why would human interests want it in the platform? If human interests get funded by the venture capitalists who are then going to make a bunch of money by getting access to the trillions of dollars inside the form. [54:13] JD: Do you guys know the firm Blue Alley Owl? Does that ring a bell? Do you know Blue Owl? [54:18] Chad: No. [54:18] Mark: They make, they make ice cream. [54:24] JD: There are lots of firms that record keepers are partnering with that have already worked in this space and know how to like diversify across different venture capital, private. I shouldn't say venture capital, private equity areas. So I, I get what you're saying and I think that that will happen. But there is another kind of more prudent, more less conflict of interest route that's happening. And you know me, I love to put on my tinfoil hat and talk about conflict of interest, but it's not all going to be that way. This is. Can be a well diversified, kind of spread across different private equity type of thing. Anyways, we'll continue Intel. [55:07] Josh Itzoe: A few years ago, didn't they have a big lawsuit about this? Where, where they got sued? [55:10] JD: Yeah, they won. [55:11] Josh Itzoe: They had some like target date funds that they kind of. [55:15] JD: They won. They won the loss. Yeah, so they won. And, and I just think this is [55:20] Josh Itzoe: one of those distraction things in my mind where it takes us away from like helping companies do things we know are going to move the needle. And it's kind of a distraction. And my sense is companies, whether it's this or crypto or whatnot, if that stuff makes its way into plans, it's generally going to be because you have a business owner who, who wants it, not necessarily the employees, but a business owner that's going to want it and they're going to make it self directed brokerage account. It's not employees want it, it's because they want it. Because they want their advisor to be able to kind of like manage their stuff. And that's why they put it in [56:00] JD: or, and in conjunction with that, the industry as a whole as a mechanism promotes this in such a way that it just becomes something that advisors are aware of and it's part of the everyday conversation of like the same way we talk about diversifying into technology or emerging markets, we'll be talking about alt investments which will sound sexy and be a great way for themselves. By the way, we're already seeing this 401k specialist and, and Brian Anderson over there interviewing these two chicks a week or two ago. You know about private equity. It's all positive. All positive, all positive empowers press releases, Voya's press releases, Hancock's new partnerships. Like you're gonna follow the money, you're gonna see this narrative and it's just gonna become like oh yeah, that's, that's what we do. We have alt investments in these, these, these types of funds. I think. So I think it's good to keep talking about this and, and see where it goes. It's exciting. I'm on a, I'm on a email [57:05] Josh Itzoe: chain right now with a bunch of [57:07] JD: old guys, old industry guys and they're, they're just going back and forth for weeks on this, like arguing with each other. It's so fun to watch. [57:14] Josh Itzoe: But my feeling is that advisors should be having an opinion. [57:22] JD: Tell us what you really mean, Brian. [57:25] Josh Itzoe: And that they should be bringing and having these conversations with clients. Like you want to make sure that your clients, any new innovation topic, trend, they hear from you before they hear from anybody else. And having an opinion on it, whether you're for it or against it, but that you're initiating, addressing it. That's where advisors I think fall into and wonder why they get put at risk. It's because they're not having these kind [57:52] Chad: of like they're not a resource. [57:55] Josh Itzoe: They're not here's what's coming, here's what we believe, here's why, whether we're for or against. And then somebody else comes along and brings something up to their client, but they get put on the defensive. So you should be Josh. [58:07] Chad: Things like this, they have to be confident enough to carry those conversations. And I think that's part of the problem in the 401k space is. Most of them don't specialize in it, so they don't spend the time understanding this. So they're not willing to go out on that. That ledge to have that conversation. So they tuck back into the basics of what 401k advisors do, and that's why they come at risk. [58:30] Josh Itzoe: But a lot of specialists and, you know, really, I think a lot of specialists. And this is just having now seen lots of firms and seeing some really great advisors and seeing some advisors where I'm like, wow, that's kind of JV is. I think you have to ask yourself. It's kind of. [58:47] Chad: It's kind of. J.D. [58:49] Josh Itzoe: well, I think there are. [58:51] Mark: Just say. Just say, yeah, you said D, not the other letter, right? [58:55] Chad: Take a drink, Mark. Take a drink. [58:57] Josh Itzoe: I think a lot of times, and you have to ask yourself as an advisor, like, do you have the courage to actually take a stand for your principles and your beliefs and then find clients who align with that? I think a lot of times what some advisors do and not people on this chat, but there are a lot of even specialists out there that lack the courage to take a stand. And their main goal is like, get hired, stay hired. I just don't want to get, you know, I want to stay hired, and I don't want to. [59:27] JD: Not bad goals. Not bad goals. [59:29] Josh Itzoe: Well, I would argue that clients respect when you have an opinion and you can defend it and that you, you are firm in your beliefs. And I would say if the client doesn't align with those beliefs, they probably shouldn't be a client of yours. You only have to find 25, 50, 75 clients that see the world the way you do. And I think most clients will appreciate a principled stand, for sure. They may not agree with it, but they, they will appreciate it than somebody who just comes in and doesn't have the courage to say, you know what? I think this is a bad idea. And here are the reasons why I think this is a bad idea, because I've thought deeply about this. Here's my philosophy. There's a lot of courage in our industry where people just, they don't want to rock the boat because I don't want to offend or I don't want to, you know, what if I get fired? Or what if they don't like it? I think clients respect courage and principles more than just somebody who comes in and says, hey, yeah, whatever you want to do. [1:00:28] JD: You people don't understand this. Consumers, clients don't trust a yes man or A yes woman. If you just say yes to everything and, and, and just go with whatever the flow is, they don't respect that and they don't trust it. And so to Josh's point, I used to do a presentation. Chad remembers it a long time ago where I said the title of the presentation was pick a fight with your client. And you're like what are you talking about? And I meant you need to show your client that you'll stand up and disagree, disagree with them, even the decision maker at times. And that will build trust with them because they'll be like, oh this guy doesn't take. And he's gonna, he knows this stuff better than I do and he's willing to voice his opinion and that's valuable to me as a client because I, I can utilize that. So obviously it was preaching the, the truth there for sure. [1:01:21] Chad: All the takeaways from tonight, that's the one I hope people will take away. Have conviction, fiction and what you're saying. Have an opinion and be willing to share it. [1:01:30] JD: Well, of all the things that I want you to take away tonight, I think it's the next thing and that is that if you want to make a lot of money, you need to follow rogue guys. This, you know, guidance on investments. He's better than private equity. He's better than venture capital. It's drunk stock tips, people. Let's get our drunk socket. We're going to do that at the end. End. We're gonna finish the show. [1:01:55] Chad: Mark. [1:01:56] JD: Yeah. With that drunk stock tips, please. Brandon. The chief executive officer of this company is little crazy, kind of Willy Wonka looking dude. Today's price was at 176.97. The stock's been on a tear, an absolute tear. Its annual return for 2024 according to chat. Yeah, those letters is 340%. The company's cumulative return since 2020 has been 623%. It does annual revenue of almost $3 billion and is on just growing, growing, growing. The company, Mark, that we all need your guidance on is Palantir. Are you familiar with this company? Oh, it's, it's software. It's artificial intelligence. It drives a lot of the. [1:03:12] Mark: Just buy it. [1:03:13] JD: Just, just buy it. Great. You heard it here first. You heard it here first. Yeah. [1:03:23] Chad: What is the ticker? Because I need to search it. [1:03:28] JD: PLTR CEO Alex, are you sure you're [1:03:31] Mark: not going to get planters nuts if [1:03:33] JD: you put that in? Just making sure that we're at the right ones, people. [1:03:37] Mark: I would still buy that stock too. [1:03:39] JD: People protest this chief executive officer when he shows up for speaking engagements. [1:03:45] Mark: Can you show a picture of him [1:03:46] JD: real fast Because I don't know this guy is able to find him up. Alex is the guy's name. [1:03:55] Mark: I'm really not in a position to type in things right now. [1:03:58] JD: It's. It's worth listening to him on. On YouTube or whatever. He's very in your free time and so my understanding. [1:04:05] Mark: My free time though it's work by the way. [1:04:07] JD: It's a. When we first started this show a long time ago, live audiences and everything, Justin and Mark sat next to each other. We had to separate them. And so what you see today is an homage to that. We put them on the opposite sides. [1:04:23] Josh Itzoe: I feel like I don't know anything about retirehallics. [1:04:29] Mark: I changed my mind. I say this guy, this guy's going to jail in like three weeks too. [1:04:36] Josh Itzoe: I'm out. [1:04:38] Mark: There's no chance this guy has. Doesn't have skeletons in his closet, man. No way. [1:04:45] JD: Fair enough. [1:04:45] Chad: I'm shorting. [1:04:48] JD: Let's see. Let's do Wheel of Ice or Quick Chop. Our champion. Let's. Let's do. Oh it. Spin the Wheel. Spin the Wheel. [1:05:03] Chad: Ever since we made this mark change, it never hits mark until [1:05:09] JD: makes me so happy. I've got Smirnoff Ice Pink. I'll take it down. [1:05:14] Chad: I'm not sure Mark could have handled the Smirnoff tonight. [1:05:18] Josh Itzoe: Do we have time to talk about the creative stage? [1:05:21] Chad: Oh sure we do, Josh. We do. [1:05:24] JD: There's no rules here. [1:05:25] Chad: Remember people watch on the recording versus right. So yes, we have time. [1:05:31] JD: Creative Planning to acquire Sage View. Creative Planning is a 370 billion dollar company. Remember a few years back they bought Lockton and our buddy Rick unser. God bless 401k Fridays. Rest in peace and sage you as a 235 billion in assets under management. So this is a big, big acquisition. I got a lot of private messages when this is going down about this happening. Obviously it's so gotta have some opinions here. Sage View was owned by the mysterious hood and. And. And robe wearing firm Aqua Line that, that we've talked about on this show before. Nobody knows them but they're this big private equity venture capital something something that buys these firms. They had majority stake in Sage View and the word on the street a few months ago was they're trying to get rid of it. Sage View and it looks like they have thoughts. Mr. Itzo, since you wanted us to make sure we brought this up. [1:06:38] Josh Itzoe: Well I, I Mean, Peter Malik's a smart dude. Like, what? He, he, he's got a few Lambos. [1:06:45] JD: He's got a few Lambos. [1:06:46] Josh Itzoe: Well, and, and the way he kind of built the wealth side of Creative was, you know, they were in like the, the Schwab Referral network, and he basically put like a Sage View office, like next to the Schwab office in like, every city. Very savvy dude. I mean, I'm not surprised by this. I think to me, this is a competitive against kind of like Cap Trust. I see. Kind of like Creative and Cap Trust now that basically my understanding is that [1:07:16] JD: Cap Trust was in the running to buy. Am I getting that wrong? No, I think, I think, I think Cap Trust was in the running to buy Sage View. [1:07:26] Mark: Really? [1:07:27] Josh Itzoe: That's, you know, tell me if I'm wrong. [1:07:28] JD: Someone. Yeah, Moody says they were. Yeah, I'll drink. [1:07:32] Josh Itzoe: It was in the article. [1:07:34] Mark: It's past 5:30. We're good. [1:07:37] Josh Itzoe: I, I, you know, I'm not surprised. There's this kind of. I, I still, everybody thinks a lot of people say that the industry. And I remember this back when I was at Morgan Stanley 22, 23 years ago, back then you had mergers like the, the, of all the, like the, the, the white and. [1:07:54] Mark: How old are you, dude, I'm 50. [1:07:58] JD: Almost 51. [1:08:01] Josh Itzoe: Back then, this was before the RIA market really took off and blew up. And you had all of the big firms, Wall street firms that were merging, and it was like, oh, this is ev. There's only going to be a handful of firms. And that's, that's all that's going to be out there. And then you've seen over the last 20 years, the independent RIA market absolutely explode. I just think there's a great opportunity, like with all these acquisitions, personally, I think there's going to be a golden era of those firms that have the conviction to stay independent. And everybody's talking about the death of the independent RIA and ever it's all just acquisition. You're just going to have a handful of big firms and maybe a couple of regionals and independents are going to go away. I don't personally agree with that because I think what happens when you have these big acquisitions, it happens for a time. It gets institutionalized. And then I think clients begin to realize, like, you know, I'm not really getting innovative thinking. And so from my standpoint, I just think there's such an opportunity for independent firms, maybe not in the large market that, you know, if you're a, you Know if you're an advisor that you know you've got 100 plans and they average $5 million and you get into a half a billion dollar plan like you ain't winning that half a billion dollar plan because the big plans are all about like they don't get fired for hiring IBM. But I just think there's such a huge market and the real innovation as companies get bigger, they become much more conservative and kind of manage risk a lot more. And I just think there's a huge opportunity like good for creative. But I think there's a huge opportunity for advisors that stay independent in their thinking from a conflict of interest standpoint and can really do things that are on the innovative side for clients that I think gets harder as you get large firms that, that kind of, you know, tuck in over time. That's just my, my 2 cents. I think there's a golden era. [1:10:07] JD: Can you guys look at, can you look at, at Mr. The guy with the hot sisters comment and the merge merge, merge. Get bloated filled confidence, agree breakup spin off to our site. Can I ask you like what, what is the purpose of these acquisitions? It is money, right? I mean maybe money and access. And access. Opportunity to make more money. But does it work for them? So when, when Creative Planning bought Locked in, that was what, six, seven years ago? Eight years? I don't know like has that worked? Did they, have they won that game? Was that a smart deal? And, and so this is so beyond my pay grade. Like are they making you know, hundreds of millions of dollars because they, they make these deals like, or is it just like, like Nate saying like kind of oh I'll drink for that. [1:11:06] Chad: It's past 5:30. [1:11:09] Mark: I haven't been hitting those ding dings at all. [1:11:12] JD: Does my question, I tell you who [1:11:14] Josh Itzoe: it works out for? Is the majority owners of these RIAs because they walk away with a gazillion with a ton of money. Who gets screwed in this actually is the next gen of advisors that basically have had their opportunity sold out from under them. And so I feel like there's a real opportunity for that emerging next gen. I've been really impressed. I work with a lot of next gen advisors and I've been really impressed with them. But they kind of get their opportunities sold out from under them because they can't build the wealth now that they could have I think meaning because they [1:11:54] Chad: don't get that brand recognition of that large group that they were a part of and now it's sold another well [1:12:00] Josh Itzoe: because they didn't have equity that gets, that gets bought in and now you become a W. I think for some people it's a great outcome. I've talked to a lot of advisors honestly in confidence that sold out and were like, there's definitely some sellers remorse. Now that's not 100% where people are like, especially if you were entrepreneurial and you wanted to do things kind of your way and have freedom to innovate and then now you go and you work for the mothership and it's like, look, we just want you to go out and sell. We don't want you to think, we want you to go gather assets, manage relationships. And people who are entrepreneurs that now are pinned in, I think it drives them crazy. And it's like, great, I got a bunch of money and in year one it was great. And then they realized in year three when the earnout's over, like, I'm a W2 employee and I don't have the freedom to do the things I want. So yeah, I think if you're entrepreneurial minded, there's a great opportunity to stay independent if you're sick and tired of it or you've gotten older and you want to monetize it. But if you're an advisor who's not a partner and you don't really get much of a, you know, you don't really benefit economically from the deal. If you're a first or second generation owner with majority equity, you got to make a ton of money. But I think some, I really think this is selling out the opportunity for the younger next gen of advisor, which I think is kind of sad. [1:13:20] JD: I like that and it make, it inspires me to think about who might buy my company and I could, Chad, Justin and Mark, I would make this big check, buy a couple Lambos and just give them the bad news, you know, like, oops, sorry, it happened. [1:13:39] Chad: A couple more, more Lambos. [1:13:42] JD: I'm, I'm actually joking and I wanted to have an honest moment of like what, what it's just talking about there is. I get, I get wooed all the time with people that want to buy our company and to me it's like, God, I just, everything he just said scares the out of me. Like I don't want to go down that path and I want to do what we do together and build it and grow it and do things like who the wants to be part of the evil empire of Darth Vader and [1:14:12] Chad: those, those that want a big check. JD To Josh's point, the next Gen ones don't want to be a part of it, but those that want the big check most certainly do. [1:14:21] Josh Itzoe: And not that everybody's wired and I realize I'm kind of talking from, you know, we always, we speak from the seat we sit in and like for me, like I could not be part of that because I'm a kind of a control freak and I want to do things the way I want to do them. Not everybody is wired to be an owner, an entrepreneur. There's some people in some cases and I've seen enough with the aggregators. In some cases it's worked great for certain teams. In other cases there's a lot of, [1:14:48] JD: there's a lot of spoiled milk. There's, like you said, there's a lot of people that a few years now since all those deals went down, they will tell you in confidence that they're not happy with the decision they made. But whatever. [1:15:02] Josh Itzoe: So it's interesting. I mean I think creative like it, it. They are very well run. They are a very well run firm. I would still say even with the locked in acquisition, they are a very wealth centric firm. But I mean that's a, you know, that, that's a, you know, good, good for them. [1:15:18] Chad: Why are you smiling so hard, Josh? Why was that difficult for you to say right there? [1:15:23] Josh Itzoe: What's that? [1:15:25] Chad: I felt like you were, you, you were, you were giving a PR stance for creative planning. [1:15:31] Josh Itzoe: No, I would just, I would just say, you know, I think it's an interesting. If you look at captra, I think if you look at the numbers captrust like a majority of their revenue is now wealth wise. But they started, they were a unique, [1:15:45] JD: they're an example of convergence. [1:15:49] Josh Itzoe: They started as retirement and then worked their way into wealth. Right. I think what you're seeing here is it's wealth that's now like kind of bolting on, bolting on retirement. You know, when these firms buy you, they're buying your future earnings. And so I think what's great about the advisory business, I think if you're a pure 401k only firm, he's an independent. It's a, it's a tough road. [1:16:13] Mark: Yeah. [1:16:14] Josh Itzoe: Have to have wealth just from a, you know, you don't see the, the client. [1:16:20] Chad: Would you have said the same thing five years ago, Josh? [1:16:23] Josh Itzoe: Definitely. Because you don't see the, the hardest thing I think about the 401k industry, it's hard to sell companies. It's way easier to sell, you know, wealth. And we had a big wealth Practice as well. It's way easier to sell, I think wealth services, but there's a lot, it's a lot stickier on the wealth side. Like you, you, you don't have individuals who get acquired. I would say that it was harder to sell 401k plans. And then you run the risk of like you've got a great client that gets acquired because M and A is eating everything else, every other industry. And now you've kind of lost that client. Wealth clients, if you do a decent job, there's just a longer term. They stick with you a lot longer. [1:17:12] JD: I didn't know that Jason Roberts is here and he's backing you up. Also saying that it's a lot more work and a lot less comp. News alert. That I didn't know. I didn't know that. Get past guests on this show. Matthew Eichman is over with Jason Roberts. I just stumbled upon that today, so shame on me. But Jason's doing some different things over there that you know, your typical ERISA attorney does all during. Oh wait, no, we're past the time, but. So I, I gotta, I gotta check back in with everything. [1:17:46] Josh Itzoe: The sales cycle is so much longer for 401k plan than it is for a private wealth opportunity. [1:17:54] JD: The difference is, is it that easy to get someone to turn over their $3 million for you to manage? I would imagine that's fairly difficult. [1:18:04] Josh Itzoe: I mean my experience, having done both was. But if, if people have need and you articulate your value prop and your approach that it's a much less complex and quicker sales cycle. [1:18:21] Chad: But you were, you were dipping into a pond that your firm already had a relationship with. Right? [1:18:28] Josh Itzoe: What, what do you mean? [1:18:29] JD: You were cross selling to prior life. [1:18:31] Chad: You're cross selling most of the time. [1:18:33] Josh Itzoe: We actually did not, we were, we did not cross sell. And, and that's the other where I think a lot of these valuations of firms, retirement firms, this can be an unpopular opinion. I think those valuations are elevated because if you think about it, the average wealth firm nowadays, what they really want is they want that kind of mass affluent into high net worth. They want people that have like the bread and butter is that 1 to $5 million, you know, that $3 million portfolio that we can manage, that, that is, that is the sweet spot. [1:19:09] JD: Okay. [1:19:09] Josh Itzoe: There's not a ton of people. I would say on average in a hundred person company, you might have three to four people. Three to four, three to five percent of people who actually would fit that. [1:19:23] JD: Yeah. The rest of them are broke or, or they're not. [1:19:28] Josh Itzoe: It's like it's hard to deliver comprehensive planning for somebody. [1:19:33] JD: Let's not get into that story again. But yeah, we debated that for years. The trying to bring. [1:19:38] Josh Itzoe: Unless you change your economic model, which what Nate just mentioned was Henry's. But that does not work with an AUM model. [1:19:46] Mark: Right. [1:19:47] Josh Itzoe: You could charge a thousand basis points but if somebody has, you know, not a lot of money. So that's where I think you're seeing these emerging Michael Kitsis and with X Y pn you're seeing these emerging business models of more of like a subscription or a monthly fee or a quarterly fee or you're seeing a stratified like hey, there's a fee for planning and then maybe like a lower AUM that's on it. That will work for the Henry market. [1:20:13] JD: But can I ask you just to kind of wrap this and close it out. These big acquisitions are driven by the concept of convergence too. Right? Though they, they do want and it is working like the one Digitals. This, this deal we're talking about here, way above my pay grade. People are purchasing business and then going after it to sell more business for their own plans. Right. I mean Freddie B loves conversion. He won't shut up about it. And sometimes I feel like really, is it really happening Access. But it is happening, right? Convergence is real. [1:20:53] Josh Itzoe: There's no. [1:20:54] JD: It is. [1:20:54] Josh Itzoe: I, I would just, I just still wonder how real there are pockets. But I think. And it's the same way with the value prop of like aggregators. What I've seen is some firms retirement shops, when they get bought have done an awesome job internal wholesaling to other practice groups. You've got other ones who haven't done as good a job and they're like I was promised all this deal flow and I'm not really getting it. So I think it's kind of a hitter, I think it's kind of a hit or miss and I think kind of the convergence play is like that as well. Like if you look at Captrust, who I have a massive amount of respect for, you look at their adv, they've got 35,000 wealth clients on their last adv and it's split between high net worth individuals, about 18,000 and it's like 17 or 18,000 individual clients that aren't kind of high net worth clients. And what's interesting, like if you look, it's like almost 70 billion in AUM. I mean they're kind of crushing it from that perspective. But they also have three 500 plans and I think I heard Fielding mention they had like 5 million participants. So if you take 35,000 divided by million it's 0.7%. So it goes back to my point of I think the vast majority of, of employees within a company aren't necessarily the wealth opportunity that the ones they want about. From a convergence standpoint. [1:22:31] JD: Yeah, yeah. That we, we all get that 100%. I, I will come back that argument at a later date but we, we kind of beat that dead horse. [1:22:40] Josh Itzoe: And just because you're the 401k advice, does that mean you're the best wealth advisor for like. [1:22:45] Chad: No, but let's acknowledge the back and forth there Josh, is that if you're on the private wealth side, your, your reasoning for going after the 401k typically is going to be to retain that relationship on the private wealth. [1:23:00] Josh Itzoe: Yeah, absolutely. [1:23:01] Chad: If you're on the 401k, your reasoning for going after the private wealth is profitability is access. Right. I've got the 401k, I'm making 50 basis points. There's four high net worth folks. And get those relationships. Those are two very different objectives that nobody ever talks about. If you're on the private wealth, it's about retention and protection. If you're on the 401k, it's about access and monetizing. [1:23:28] Josh Itzoe: Well, no doubt, no doubt about it. And I think a lot of retirement shops and even on the aggregator side are trying to kind of build this wealth chassis and they're at varying levels, [1:23:39] Chad: but one is on the offensive and one is on the defensive. Let's acknowledge that one is on the offensive and one is on, on the defensive. [1:23:45] Josh Itzoe: Well and I think that's what a real risk. I talked to a lot of wealth advisors and they have no idea about the retirement space. But if you've got that business owner who's worth got a $3 million portfolio and their business is worth 25 and you're not in there talking to them about the 401k, about managing the 401k and then you wake up one day. [1:24:03] Chad: Yeah. [1:24:04] Josh Itzoe: Next thing you know that did their employee benefits or their PNC is now pitching retirement and they take over retirement and now you've got to come competitor every quarter that's sitting in the conference room with your private wealth client like that's a real risk. Now the reality is most wealth firms, sure they need to protect that, that CEO or that level executive client of theirs, but they can't compete on bigger plans. It's that small like privately held company. So I think a lot of wealth advisors have no idea. They haven't heard of. Of hub. They haven't heard of one digital because they're not in that. It's not in that world. They're not in that world. That's a real risk for them. I'm just not sure the convergence. I think there are certainly opportunities and you get access and if I was a 401k advisor again and we were had plans like I absolutely would be [1:25:00] Chad: trying to do it too. [1:25:02] JD: Guys, you've motivated me and the chat bars motivated me. What if we go for like next year? Let's try to set the world record for the longest 401k podcast. We'll literally go like a week or so. [1:25:16] Chad: It'll be like those folks that stand up in D.C. when they got the floor and they try to hold the floor for all night long. [1:25:24] JD: And I'm dead serious, Chad, I'm not even kidding about this. We will, we will stay here seated doing this for like days. And we will rotate in guests throughout the day and we'll just be [1:25:39] Josh Itzoe: zero. [1:25:40] Mark: I'm just the, the modern day approach to that. Right? You see all these guys that are really famous on YouTube, whatever they do streaming, where people come in, they like they're at a house, right? And they're all just sitting in front, but they're. They're live stream. We should do it where we're all together. I like that live streaming and then. [1:25:59] JD: Yeah, I'm dead serious about this. Okay, two more things before we go. Quick future shows for next month. I'm very excited about this. So if you stuck around, check this out. October 2nd, this guy says guideline sucks. He's gonna be our guest. [1:26:19] Chad: Oh, yeah, boy. [1:26:22] JD: And no offense to Jim Sampson, but October 16, Lisa Gomez, the former head of the employee benefit and Security Administration. I'm excited about that one. Anyone? [1:26:39] Mark: We get one terrified for that one. [1:26:42] JD: These big DC types, I get kind of excited. And then lastly. Okay, chap our champion. You ready? Because people stuck around. Everyone that's here had no, no, no, they don't win. Everyone has made the final. Okay. And what we're gonna do for this person, whoever wins tonight, next show, you tell me what fancy dinner you want delivered to your house and it's on me. Okay? You let me know if you win. I pay for it. I send it to your house. And so everyone right now has to finish this sentence. And Roby will pick the winner. No, [1:27:27] Mark: I'll pick the. I'll pick. [1:27:28] JD: I'll come up. [1:27:29] Mark: I'm not saying the sentence. [1:27:30] JD: Yeah, I'll come up with a sentence. Okay, we'll let. [1:27:34] Mark: We'll let it. So pick the winner. [1:27:37] JD: Chad. Nerdy Chad loves spreadsheets so much, he. All right, let's see. Nerdy Chad loves spreadsheets so much, he. Take your time, people. [1:27:57] Chad: Nice. I like that one. [1:28:00] JD: Nate's sister on the altar. That's solid. [1:28:03] Chad: That's solid, too. So is excels. [1:28:06] JD: Excels is short but sweet. [1:28:08] Mark: Yeah. [1:28:09] JD: Draft remains to them, sister for dinner. Draft. [1:28:14] Mark: That was Moody. Moody said that before you said the sentence. [1:28:17] JD: He did. The drafter mates. [1:28:20] Mark: No, no, no, no. [1:28:21] Chad: Oh, my gosh. [1:28:22] JD: Moody. Two spreadsheets together like the ins. Oh, God. Jesus, Moody. That's. [1:28:31] Chad: He's clever. He is clever. [1:28:34] JD: Bread his sheiks for them. [1:28:37] Mark: I think if you gotta get it, it's good. [1:28:40] JD: This is a. This is a full dinner provided to you. [1:28:44] Chad: Anyone want to get intimate, too? It's getting into you. [1:28:48] Mark: Jason Roberts, we want to see something from you [1:28:54] JD: after Bates. All right, we'll see who's guess. [1:28:59] Chad: It's always choosing or is Mark choosing? [1:29:01] Mark: It's always all right. [1:29:03] JD: It's a. Who's the winner? Who's the best? [1:29:06] Josh Itzoe: Is it just based on that question quote there? Because I. [1:29:09] Chad: That's it. They made the finalist just that. [1:29:12] Josh Itzoe: Now I can't leverage the fact that the DE's nuts reference because brash had a four front. [1:29:19] JD: No, no, no. It's got to be about this Roby thing we just did or the Chad thing. Nerdy Chad loves spreadsheets so much, he drafter baits to them. Stuck two spreadsheets together. Excels. Very smart. Left Nate's sister at the. The Ultra. I love that one. Come on. Which one's the winner? BR's the mic drafter. Bates. Who is it? It's so [1:29:44] Josh Itzoe: I. I gotta. I gotta go. [1:29:45] JD: Brusha braw. [1:29:48] Mark: Yeah. [1:29:48] JD: Okay. [1:29:49] Chad: Solid. [1:29:49] JD: All right. [1:29:50] Chad: Solid. [1:29:51] JD: All right, bb hit me up in the. [1:29:54] Josh Itzoe: I was gonna go Nate. I was gonna go Nate. Till he skewered me on the chat. [1:29:58] JD: And so hit me up in the private messages and let me know what fancy restaurant you're going to be next to in two Thursdays when we have Jim Sampson on this show and dinners on me. I personally, you know who I would have voted for? My favorite 401k guy in the world. Nate Moody. Nate Moody. It has been another episode. [1:30:23] Josh Itzoe: His LinkedIn profile. [1:30:25] JD: We are changing the retirement plan industry. One tequila with orange juice and pog at a time. See you next time. Thank you, Josh. It's. [1:30:35] Chad: Thank you, Josh. It's so good to see you, buddy. [1:30:38] JD: Yeah. Thank you to everyone who tuned in and everyone who's watching this on YouTube or what have you. [1:30:45] Josh Itzoe: And he said he's repping an rpac. Can I change my vote? [1:30:49] JD: No, you can't change your vote. I salute you all, you 401k.