TPA Growth & Fee Compression with Nevin Adams

[0:04] JD: All right. I feel like I've seen these people before, guys. Like what? We're doing two hours with this guy. Jesus. [0:12] Chad: We have to spend a lot more time with him than that. [0:14] JD: Welcome, welcome, welcome, everybody, to another episode of Retireholics, coming to you live from the ASPA annual TPA growth summit in National harbor, close to D.C. is that right? You're looking at me funny. [0:33] Chad: I'm encouraging you. These are eyes of confidence. [0:35] JD: Jd. I know. [0:37] Chad: I feel so far away now. At least I can hear you because there's mics. [0:40] JD: We've changed. We've changed up the order here of the chairs for various reasons, but I [0:45] Chad: talk too much is really why we're [0:47] JD: super stoked to be here. And I may have mentioned before, but to have an audience of TPAs is a treat for us because most of the time we're doing these shows for advisors, and now we get to talk to our peers, which I've always thought that if you're not watching retireholics, TPAs would get a kick out of it. Probably even more so than advisors a lot of times. [1:10] Chad: Yeah. [1:10] Mark: Because they're. They don't want to do this and ruin our reputation. And they're like, look at those idiots. [1:15] JD: That's why. So we are very happy to be here because of that. I'm going to talk about a few things. If you don't know what Retireholics is, just think of us as a tpa, thinking, how are we going to market to advisors? Seminars, workshops, invite you to a steakhouse and do a PowerPoint presentation? Sure, we could do that, but we figured we'd do this instead. Put it on YouTube and film it, which is what's going on here. This is going live out to the Internet and. And there's probably two people watching. [1:49] Chad: There's one, Just one. [1:50] JD: That's my mom. And so it's a lot of fun. And what's been really interesting about it, which wasn't our plan, is this might be like our eighth conference. [2:03] Chad: It's like the sixth one this year. There's been one eight now. [2:07] JD: So we've been running around doing these on stage. And it's a cool excuse to drink beer at the conference. And no one can say anything about it. So it's a lot of fun. Although we are going to be very professional today because we're going to do a little something different. Usually we even bring hard alcohol up here, and it gets a little nasty. We do have a goal for 2020. We want to get kicked out of a conference. So we'll see. [2:37] Chad: We were close in la. I feel like that got a little out of hand. [2:40] JD: We'll find the right fit. Probably don't want to get kicked out of aspa. That could go wrong. [2:43] Chad: That would be a bad one. [2:44] JD: We'll figure one out. We did a show in the LA area recently, and Mark decided. Mark is this guy over here in the robe. Mark decided. It was a very fancy resort, and Mark really loved the robe in the hotel room, so he decided to wear it on stage. [3:02] Mark: I had literally never worn a robe in my life. I put it on, I'm like, oh, now I get it. Now I get it. [3:09] JD: So we'd had a few beers in prep and we said, mark, you should wear that robe on stage. Stage. That would be cool. And he did it. He went for it. [3:16] Chad: So. [3:17] JD: So now we've got an ongoing. [3:19] Mark: Never taken it off since. [3:21] JD: And you've got a new robe. Can you explain your new robe? Because I just learned about this about an hour ago. [3:26] Mark: Yeah, just. I have a question for you three guys. Well, scout with you for any of you guys have a sponsor up here? [3:34] JD: I do not. Anybody? [3:35] Chad: I do not have a sponsor. [3:37] Mark: No. [3:37] JD: Okay. [3:37] Mark: Well, I am officially sponsored by the 401k Fridays podcast. If you haven't listened to it, anybody [3:44] Chad: know 401k Friday's podcast? [3:46] JD: Rick Unser. [3:47] Mark: Yeah. So big, big ups to Mr. Unser, as I refer to him, Mr. [3:53] JD: Respect. I call him Rick. [3:55] Mark: I've never been a guest on the show. I think this is like jd probably his way of being like, you'll never be on the show. [4:01] Chad: I've been a guest on the show. [4:02] JD: I've been on. I've been on 4K Friday. [4:05] Mark: Yeah, but he's paying me now. [4:07] Chad: It's true. We don't get paid, to be honest. [4:09] JD: Can I state this for everyone out there watching? And if you know anyone. [4:12] Mark: Your mic's not even on. [4:13] Justin: Oh, you guys not hear me. [4:16] Chad: He doesn't talk anyways. [4:17] Justin: You can hear me. [4:18] JD: I want to. I wanted to let you guys know that anyone out there in the industry. Mark's got a lot of blank space on the robe. So he's thinking kind of like nascar. So again, you know, Fidelity, T Row, you know, anyone that wants to get on there, they can talk to Mark. [4:33] Mark: And I'll give you free advertising. Every show you'll be name dropped. I'll say your tagline. So hit me up. [4:41] JD: Bring it on. [4:42] Mark: I want to be covered. [4:43] Chad: There's room for tattoos, too, if you're an ultra sponsor. [4:47] Mark: Yeah, mostly My face, though. [4:49] JD: Before you decide to leave the room and walk out, I want you to know that we've had some pretty distinguished guests on this show before. So we've had Fred Reich. That was a big highlight for us. Until today. I don't know. [5:02] Nevin Adams: Sorry. [5:02] JD: Now we've had Jason Roberts, we've had. Name some other big guys we've had on the show. [5:07] Chad: We're going to have James Stout on. [5:09] JD: We pulled the scam of all time. We're. They're paying for us to go to Hawaii for Sal Tripote seminar. I don't believe it, but it keeps happening. We got a little homage to Sal over there, too. His ARISA books are. [5:27] Chad: I needed something to put my beer on nice and high here. [5:29] JD: And I. And I talk about all these really cool people on the show. Not to brag, but. Because now we got another one. So I want to introduce to you the newest guest of Retireholics. You all know him, Mr. Nevin Adams. Come on up here. Where is he? I actually had a moment where I'm like, did he leave? [5:53] Nevin Adams: Yeah. [5:53] JD: He's like, I'm out of here. [5:55] Chad: Good luck surviving this, Nevin. It's been fun. [5:59] Mark: I had to. This one's short. The last one, I didn't. [6:02] JD: I've used this joke before, Nevin, but here's your career now, and here's where it's going now. So. [6:09] Nevin Adams: No, no, My mom's tuned in. [6:11] JD: Did you. Did you see that? There was a present for you on the chair. Did everyone see the present or did I take it away? I made this just for Nevin because the ARA is a responsible company and they are establishment. And they said, we don't want Nevin drinking beer on the stage. He's got to be respectful and professional. So I agreed to that. I think that's a good look for him. [6:33] Chad: They clearly watched the Jason Roberts episode. Yeah, he barely made his flight after that. [6:39] JD: Jason Roberts. [6:41] Nevin Adams: That was pretty sad. [6:43] JD: Jason, I'm about to teach you the prohibitive work. So we're going to play a little game. And Jason Roberts was not good at the prohibitive word. And. Which means he drank a lot of alcohol that day on stage. And I was worried that he was going to get kicked off his flight or he end up on the headlines of the newspapers the next day, but never happened. Okay, so we're going to two things. Every show we have the beer of the episode. We've got kind of a special beer of the episode because a friend of ours brought it to us. It's called Bitter Sisters and Chad, can you grab me one? Justin? And Chad is the. The beer connoisseur, so he's going to tell us a little bit about this Bitter Sisters and Mr. Adams, I got you a root beer there. [7:26] Chad: We'll be thinking about you, Evan, as we drink these. [7:28] Nevin Adams: Beer is beer. [7:29] JD: I shouldn't say I got you that. It was like your staff, your support people that got it for you. I totally forgot about you. I was like, you can just do whatever. [7:38] Chad: So I will introduce this beer. And by the by the way, all the beer sponsors we've had in the past, I'm like online trying to figure out different things to say about their company and maybe describe beer in a different way that I haven't already in the first 41 episodes. This time I got full breakdowns of the beer. I got a breakdown of the company. I've got everything I need here. [7:58] JD: That's your nerd dream come true. [8:00] Chad: It's my nerd dream come true. So Bitter Sisters, as JD mentioned, it's from Addison, Texas. I think what I admire most about what they've put out, especially in today's conversation that we've had, I think they say family in their marketing pieces here. Five or six times, essentially saying we are a family of beer drinkers and we just want to share and bring everybody else into our family. Enjoy these beers. We want to bring them into the places we call home. And so we'll open them, we'll enjoy them. We've got a couple different kinds. I know that I just grabbed Hissy Fit. [8:33] JD: That's what I got over here. Hissy Fit. [8:35] Mark: Oh, that's right. [8:35] Justin: You got the special one. [8:36] Chad: Oh, I got the special one. The Belgian quad. [8:39] Nevin Adams: Oh. [8:40] Chad: 12.1% by volume, by alcohol. [8:42] Nevin Adams: This one will be good. [8:44] Chad: Okay, so there's Cat fight, which is an Indian Pale Ale. Six pack, 6.6%. [8:48] JD: What's hissy fit? [8:49] Chad: Hissy Fit is a Mars and Lager. 5.7 ABV. [8:53] JD: Nice mark. [8:54] Chad: Amber in color. Taste starts with a full bodied mouth feel that is complemented by a slight caramel sweetness. Wow. This is a perfect beer to drink on a stage in front of a hundred tpas. That's what it says on there. [9:08] JD: Wow. [9:08] Justin: Chad, what's the. [9:09] JD: Did you write that? [9:10] Mark: I'm impressed. [9:11] Chad: No, I didn't read it. [9:12] Mark: You are not funny at all. [9:14] Chad: Awkward phase. [9:14] Mark: Am I allowed to drink it out of those cups or these? [9:16] Justin: Special one. [9:17] Chad: Oh, you got a special one too. [9:19] JD: That was sexy how you said that, John. [9:21] Nevin Adams: Sure. [9:22] Chad: They even sent glasses. This is Fantastic. Awkward phase. This is a beer hop heads will love. You're gonna hate it. Then a New England style ipa. It's a juicy explosion of citrus and melon due to the generous dose of hops and added late that are added late in the party. [9:38] JD: Okay. [9:38] Chad: Delicious. [9:39] JD: So we're going to enjoy these beers. [9:40] Chad: Thank you, Bitter Sisters. [9:42] JD: Yeah. Thank you very much to Bitter Sisters. This is awesome. We've got another game. And stay tuned because this is usually the most fun for you. We used to call this the word of the episode. We now call this the prohibited word because that's what Fred Reich called it. So we're like, okay, that's the word. How the prohibitive word works is if we're going to pick a word and if anyone on this couch says that word. Usually they'd have to drink hard alcohol, but today they're going to have to eat a very hot wing. Okay, we've got them in three stages. So the first time you say the word, you'll eat the easy wing, which is to the left, I believe. Hopefully we get that right. [10:24] Nevin Adams: That's what you told me. [10:26] JD: If you say it the second time, you'll go to the middle, which is the medium one. And if you say it a third time and someone will. You will eat the very hot wing. [10:37] Chad: Let's acknowledge that these are not hot wings purchased from a restaurant. We went to a hot sauce. [10:42] Mark: Hot sauce. [10:43] Chad: A hot sauce store and asked them, what sauces can we drink that will not make us vomit on stage? Because I almost did, importantly. [10:51] JD: And they have typical names that include, like, death and evil and carnage and all. And we know that that last one is rough. Actually, they're all pretty rough. So there's no, like, oh, this is great. You'll see some reactions. [11:03] Mark: By the way, these have been sitting out for, like, three or four hours. The sauce isn't going to make us sick. The wings are going to make us sick. [11:12] JD: Now, I like to prepare ahead of time, man. I don't want to leave things to chance in the end. [11:17] Chad: Jd, you taught me last night as [11:19] Nevin Adams: we were in the store. [11:20] Chad: What's the. What's the grading that they gave? That's like 3,000 scoville. [11:25] Nevin Adams: No. [11:25] Chad: 3 million. [11:26] Nevin Adams: Yeah. [11:26] Chad: 3 million scoville. Wait. I put a little bit on a cracker last night, and I could feel my pulse in the top of my mouth. And that was the light one. [11:35] JD: Chad. One time we had him. We do a game where Chad loses a game every time. We call it the Quiz of Death. And he was in Front of an audience. And he had to take a shot of super hot hot sauce. [11:46] Chad: A full shot. [11:47] JD: Almost threw up on the stage in front of the audience. So that was. That would have been fun. We would have got kicked out of that one. It didn't happen. Nevin, you really flow with our couch. Like the way you interject and things. I love it. I love it. [12:01] Nevin Adams: I'm not sure that's a compliment. [12:03] JD: So the word of the episode is going to be after I. I'm going to say this once. I get a free pass is going to be advisor. Okay, so if you say that, no [12:15] Chad: double word this time. [12:17] JD: All right. What are you doing to us, Shannon? [12:19] Chad: I want to see someone get hurt. [12:20] JD: You can pick the second word. You can get help from friends. The second word to piggyback with the word I just said, think what you want. [12:28] Chad: Think of all of Nevin's writings. What's he going to say often? [12:31] JD: Sure. [12:34] Chad: That was the one I ixnated off the tongue. [12:38] JD: Okay, so just so you know, you picked a word that is actually one of our subject matters on the. It's actually our first one. [12:46] Nevin Adams: Well, this will give us the proper incentive to come up with a different word. [12:50] JD: So let's dive right into it then the conversation real quick. [12:54] Justin: Eddie, Veron, everyone. You notice there's cards on your tables. [12:57] Chad: Oh. [12:58] Justin: So instead of raising your hand because JD hates audience participation verbally, there's a number on there you can text and it'll pop up on the computer. As long as it's not too mean. [13:07] JD: I'll read it if you would like to chime in. Tell me that you like my pirate jacket or you don't like Mark's Road, or you have a question for any one of us, you can text to that number and we can. If we like it, we'll take it. Or if you know some deep, dark secret about Nevin, send it along and maybe we'll talk about that. [13:30] Chad: Jd, let's add a little something to the game, too. [13:33] JD: Always. Oh, okay. Yes. [13:35] Chad: I mentioned this the other day. Loser of this game donates $500 to the charity of Nevin's choice. [13:42] JD: Okay, Nevin, you gotta pick a charity. Whichever one of us says wait personally. [13:47] Chad: Yeah, two words in the I'm not fighting your paycheck. [13:49] JD: Dude has to donate. [13:51] Nevin Adams: You can contribute your robe. [13:53] JD: Don't worry, I'll take it out of Chad's pay. We'll be good. Okay. I love that. So you'll come up with a charity by the end of the show? That we will. [14:01] Nevin Adams: You Mean, besides my personal account? [14:03] JD: Oh, yeah, sure. Is that a conflict we could give it to. No, he's killed. He's joking. Good joke. So that's how that's going to work. Okay, first subject. Thanks, Shannon. Is I did a LinkedIn post on this and got a lot of kind of comments and engagement. Do you like the acronym that is currently used to describe you? Those three letters, is that a great name for us? Is it a good marketing name? Is it a good branded name? Who here loves that name? Those three letters? Raise your hand. Okay, see, that's how you feel. [14:44] Nevin Adams: Wait, we got. We got an outlier. [14:46] JD: Oh, you love that. [14:48] Mark: Yeah. [14:48] Nevin Adams: And what was the name that you liked? [14:50] Mark: I was gonna try to get you to say it, but it's okay. [14:52] Justin: Not like the name I don't necessarily like. [14:54] Chad: I don't mind the acronym. Sorry. [14:56] JD: Huh? [14:56] Chad: I don't mind the acronym as much as I do the words behind it. Third party administrative. [15:01] Mark: Do you know if you Google those three letters, the first thing that comes up. Would you like. Let me tell you? [15:07] JD: Sure. [15:08] Mark: Anybody know what a tissue plasminogen activator is? [15:13] Chad: It's gonna make me look young again. [15:15] Mark: It's a protein involved in the. I'm just kidding. So, I mean, that's. [15:18] JD: That's what comes up. That's true. [15:20] Mark: Like, if I Google JD Carlson, I hope it wouldn't be something weird like that, you know? Hold on. [15:27] JD: You've got questions. [15:28] Justin: Do we think the person with the beard is actually Bob Seeger in 1977? [15:36] JD: You know, they're anonymous, too, because if you don't put your name on there, we don't know what area code you're from. [15:41] Justin: Last 45530. Thank you. They agreed that that word is not. And if any of you try to trick me into saying that word up here. [15:47] Chad: Justin, you've already talked more this episode than you ever have. [15:51] JD: The first question, the first question I had around that, which I put out on LinkedIn, was, where did it come from? Like, who decided? Like, yes, let's call ourselves that. And I got a variety of answers. Maybe Nevin wants to chime in here or there. But I heard people saying, well, it comes from, like, group health, which I think is true. Which, by the way, well, that sucks. Why are we sharing a name with something else? It's not even us. People also talked about it coming from the true definition of administrator. Like plan administrator. [16:22] Chad: We're saying. [16:22] JD: Okay, well, it's. Time out, Time out. [16:24] Mark: Can we serious timeout to the show, like, legit. [16:27] JD: Timeout. [16:28] Chad: Sure. [16:28] Mark: Mark, can you actually say one of the words in the three letter thing? [16:33] Justin: That was a question. [16:34] JD: We've had this and yes. Okay. All right. [16:36] Nevin Adams: Okay. [16:37] Mark: So I can say third party administrators. You can say that. [16:40] Chad: Oh, yeah. [16:40] Mark: This game just got easy. [16:41] JD: Third party administrators. [16:43] Mark: So sorry, Loophole. [16:45] JD: Found it. Some guy on the Internet told me that it came from Fidelity. I was like, oh, this is interesting information. I wrote him, I said, tell me more, I'm interested. He goes, oh, I don't know. Someone told me that. I'm like, that makes no sense. So I believe the group health and the plan administrator deal. But still, who cares? So that, that sucks. It's just a bad term for us. So here's the next problem. Is there. Why do I hate it? Why do we hate it? Let's talk about that. To me, it sounds like something you don't have to have. Like it's a, it's an add on or worse, it's like an extra hand in the cookie jar. Do you agree? [17:26] Nevin Adams: Well, it's like one off of second hand, you know, third party, secondhand. I mean, yeah, it's like, it's like a one off kind of thing. [17:33] JD: Which that's not smart branding and marketing. [17:36] Chad: Okay, so Evan, I think in one of your responses you said it sounds like we run the bronze in a three person race. [17:43] Nevin Adams: Yeah. I mean, seriously, folks, it does. And honestly, even if you were to. If somebody asks you like, what do you do? Who are you? You know, kind of thing, and you were to utter those letters or say out the words, the very next question out of their mouth has got to be, and what's that? [17:59] Mark: Yeah, right, right. [18:01] JD: Which is bad branding and marketing at its core. Right. [18:05] Justin: The other part is plan sponsors get it confused. Like when they're filling out, you know, starting a plan. Whoever had an experience. [18:11] JD: Great point. [18:11] Justin: They think they're the plan administrator, but we're the third party administrator. [18:14] JD: Great point. Justin, what did you just say? [18:17] Justin: It's a third party administrator. [18:19] Mark: Okay, what is that? [18:20] JD: Do you get what he's saying? It also gets confused with the true definition of plan administrator. So it's not only is it bad branding, it's confusing. So let me ask you guys this. Would you be willing to try to change it? [18:33] Nevin Adams: Yes. [18:33] JD: I mean, it's kind of scary. Yes. But a lot of people are saying yes. I'm really just messing around. I wasn't thinking we could come here, drink beer and change what we've been called for decades. [18:43] Nevin Adams: But one beer at a time, right? [18:45] JD: I'm Starting to think, why not? [18:46] Chad: Well, you said after a few cocktails last night, if there's any group that could do it, it would be aspa. [18:51] JD: It could change that acronym. I was going to. You're. I was going to put it on Nevin. That if we decided that we could. [18:58] Nevin Adams: Who got a classic transference, you know? [19:01] JD: Well, I mean, do you think the retireholics should change the name that we've known forever, or do you think ARA and ASPA should change it? I'm going with the latter. Shannon thinks retireholics should change it. [19:13] Nevin Adams: But [19:15] JD: here's the tougher problem to what? And I really don't have an answer for you. [19:22] Nevin Adams: I do. [19:22] JD: Okay. Yes. Mark, I'm scared. [19:24] Mark: I've spent a lot of time thinking about this fourth party administrator. Am I right? [19:32] Nevin Adams: You're going the wrong direction. [19:33] Mark: Got a ring to it. [19:35] Chad: JD it was funny as I tried to start thinking about that when you sent out topics, the only thing I could come up with. Yeah, that you weren't on that email was more acronyms like why are we such an acronym? Driven Business. But that's all I kept coming up with is how could I shorten it to acronyms? [19:51] Justin: Can you tell me what ERISA stands for? [19:53] Chad: Employee Retirement. Okay, I don't want to. I was gonna say the A word at the end. Oh, someone's quizzing Employee Retirement Income Security. [20:01] Justin: No, it's just a question for me. But somebody did ask, does JD dye his beard? [20:05] JD: That's probably my children. And it's not dye the beard. Look at their laughing their ass off. I just put a little hide the gray, that's all. [20:13] Mark: It's a little hide the gray. [20:15] JD: I'm embarrassed about it. It's fine. [20:20] Chad: You have something, don't you? [20:21] JD: Wait, I heard people talk about calling us, like compliance consultants. I was like, okay, we're going in the right. That was your we're going in the right direction. I still feel like consultant, which, by the way, is part of my company's name. Sounds like an additive, like something you don't need. And like Chad said, why does it have to be these multiple word acronym things? Like a record keeper is a record keeper. A custodian's a custodian. [20:48] Justin: A. [20:49] JD: There's a word for a financial professional that's one word. Starts with an A. [20:54] Chad: We're all terrified of this. Normally we give in by now just because we want a shot, but nobody wants to touch that. [21:00] JD: Brandon said. He goes, what if you go the whole show and you don't say the words because you're so afraid. [21:05] Chad: Then Skyler tries it at the end. [21:09] JD: So there's. It's okay to just have, like, one name, like, to think about it, and it could be something cool. I don't know what it is, but I'm gonna put it out to you guys. I think I'd love to hear some more or send them to the legitimate person. More names of what we could be called. And who knows, Maybe we'll make a little initiative. [21:28] Nevin Adams: Well, and let me mention, several of you have already responded to the TPA insight. [21:32] Chad: Oh, yes. [21:33] Nevin Adams: Oh, God. [21:35] JD: Oh, Is it. Is it cauliflower? He said cauliflower. I don't eat cauliflower, man. [21:44] Chad: Your choice. You can have the cauliflower, you can go after the wings, or you can [21:47] JD: do the hefty dip. [21:49] Chad: That was a hefty dip. Trust me, we were in pain. [21:53] JD: You know what we don't have? Since you guys make fun of me? Getting the gray out of my beard, why don't you go get us some napkins out of the bathroom? Go. [22:03] Mark: I feel like. How do you feel if our guest does it, One of us has. [22:06] JD: How would Nevaeh give us another on the sock? [22:09] Nevin Adams: Jeez. That's the mild. This is gonna be a long night. [22:13] JD: That's rough. [22:14] Nevin Adams: All right, so there's that survey that I sent you all out, a link to. I hope you all got it. I know a number of you have already started responding to it. Part of that actually has. What do you call yourself? And do you have a suggestion? We're gonna pull that together. Excuse me. [22:32] JD: This is why the hot sauce is almost cooler than a hard alcohol. [22:38] Nevin Adams: We weren't joking. [22:40] JD: Serious. Okay, so give us the feedback. And then I'm gonna keep pressuring these large institutions to come up with a plan, because if we're gonna rebrand it, you would be where we would start. [22:52] Chad: Yeah. [22:52] Nevin Adams: No, absolutely. So give it some thought, because this industry has made. Gosh. Has made a lot of mistakes. That name is one of them. [23:03] JD: Yes. [23:04] Nevin Adams: Referring to record keeping as a commodity business is another, because I was a record keeper for a while, and that's hard stuff. And saying it's just a commodity. That's why that fee pressure is getting so bad, because people don't appreciate what goes into that. [23:23] Mark: Right. [23:23] Nevin Adams: We're not helping ourselves by diminishing the value of what we do. And what happens if it gets messed up. And I can promise you, the people out there that you're working with, whether it's plan sponsors or whether it's that other unnamed entity [23:44] Mark: I was gonna do. [23:45] Nevin Adams: I get points for drawing you right up to the brink. [23:48] Mark: And then, you know, my heart stopped. [23:51] Nevin Adams: I am not going back to that. Well, that's just what I'm telling you. They know that the quickest thing to mess up their relationship is if the stuff you all do doesn't get done right. And they don't want to partner with anybody who doesn't do it right. Now part of their worry is they don't know. A lot of them don't know whether you're doing it right or not. [24:16] JD: Yeah, yeah. [24:17] Nevin Adams: Until it's too late. But that's why that relationship is so important. And they're knowing who you are and connecting with you is so important. So a couple of things was in a session yesterday with Jeff Atchison and Justin, and they were talking about. [24:34] JD: She looked like a future rock star. [24:36] Nevin Adams: What's that? [24:36] JD: Future rock star. Oh, go on. Sorry, Nevin. [24:43] Nevin Adams: And then we're talking about, you know, those other people we're not going to talk about anymore. And how. How do you. How do they find out who you are? So I want to make you all aware of something that you may not be aware of. We have for about four years now been publishing. Goodness. We're kind of been safer with the beer. [25:07] JD: We're gonna do these wings every episode. [25:09] Chad: I for sure thought JD would be the first one to have to do it, so. [25:13] JD: I feel so bad for you. [25:15] Justin: This is the first time. [25:16] Chad: I guess. [25:16] JD: Let's make sure we change this TPA name because it's. [25:19] Chad: But we. [25:21] JD: He's doing it on purpose. [25:23] Chad: Oh, this is not good. Now the two people that are supposed to talk aren't going to talk. [25:27] Mark: This all problem is this kind of [25:30] Nevin Adams: thing where if you drink, it actually gets worse, isn't it? We have something we call the black book. And in the black book, we have listed tpas. It gets started. [25:41] JD: I'll do it. [25:41] Mark: I'll do it. I'll do it. [25:42] JD: I'll take. [25:42] Mark: Here, here. I'll do it. I'll do it. [25:47] Chad: I know you're all pain. [25:48] Mark: Wait, do I have to go to the second? [25:50] JD: Oh, geez, no. You already said you do it. I did. [25:53] Chad: Oh, you're going for number two. [25:56] JD: Mark, are you saving him? Is that what you're doing? [25:59] Mark: Yes. I like Nevin a lot. [26:01] Nevin Adams: I appreciate it. [26:01] Justin: I forgot we got some carrots and celery. [26:03] Mark: He's trying to make a point. It's just going to derail our whole show. And that's my job. [26:07] JD: Justin. [26:08] Mark: Yeah? [26:08] JD: Can you hand me My beer, please. [26:12] Nevin Adams: Thank you. [26:13] Mark: You're not welcome. [26:16] Nevin Adams: The problem is, at first it's like, well, it's not too bad. And then it sinks. Anyway, we have a link. I'll send it out to you all afterwards. You all can be listed in this for free. You should be listed in for free because it's going out to all those other entities which somehow I've managed to avoid saying, and they'll see it. We're trying to build that bridge. We want, honestly, you all to know more about those folks, and we want them to know more about this group. So when I send you that link, take advantage of it. It's free. It's titled something. I don't remember what it was. [26:56] Chad: We had a discussion in between sessions right after Brian was done, and you heard Marybeth talk about telling people what we actually do and how we describe what we're doing, as did Brian. So I think the thought has to go somewhere. To Compliance. Right. I mean, if we're going to talk about renaming this, it has to go to Compliance or a cya. [27:18] JD: Chad, after you have one of those, you just nod like you know what you're talking about. I didn't hear a word you said. You're thinking about my mouth. [27:26] Mark: Are we still doing a show right now? [27:27] JD: No. Good points, Chad. Wonderful points. [27:32] Chad: I like. See, I like cya. [27:33] Mark: This is why it's important to have a pocket beer. [27:38] JD: No, back to the original point. I. I was kind of doing this as a joke. I thought it'd be funny to talk about, but now I'm thinking we should make a little push towards this and see if we could rebrand. Brian was up here scaring us, you know, and. And to me, what mean. What he was trying to say is this is going to be a big. The MEP is going to be a big sales push. Right. Can't feel my teeth. From the big firms. And we need to have our own branding, our own sales push to combat against it or however you decide to partner with it. This is tough, so. But let's try it. Let's give it a shot. Let's go for it. Any last. [28:15] Nevin Adams: Of course, you know, that means we'll have to rename this event for next year, but that's another point. [28:19] JD: Yeah. And we will have to change all our branding for our hats, which is. [28:23] Chad: Nevin pointed that out earlier. [28:26] JD: Okay. [28:26] Chad: Big red circle with a line thread [28:28] Nevin Adams: around, which means these are our limited edition. [28:32] Chad: Get them quick. [28:33] Mark: The wings in the sauce. [28:35] Chad: Yeah, we. [28:36] JD: We'd like to talk a little Shop. We got some other subject matter for you, but we also like to mix in a little fun. And we're going to do something new, something that we haven't really done before. And if my tech can help me over there, we're going to queue it up. Mark is going to do a little poetry for us. So if we could dim the light. [28:59] Mark: Yeah, we're going to do that. [29:00] Nevin Adams: Okay. [29:01] JD: Chad, do you have a little flashlight? [29:03] Chad: I do have. [29:06] JD: Dim the lights as best we can. [29:08] Chad: Can you talk, Mark? [29:09] Mark: Maybe. [29:10] JD: Mark, do you have your scarf? [29:11] Nevin Adams: Seriously, where's your scarf? [29:14] JD: And can you hand him the handheld mic, maybe? Mark. [29:24] Mark: Got it. [29:25] JD: Okay, everybody. [29:26] Mark: Are both my mics on? Is that weird? [29:28] JD: When you go to do a poem, the audience, right. Does a little bit of this first, right? Snap it up for him because he's gonna go deep. He just comes from the heart. [29:39] Mark: Before. No, just a. [29:41] JD: Hold on. [29:42] Mark: Sorry. Not ready at all. [29:43] JD: Oh, what a prima donna. No, this. [29:45] Mark: This poem is brought to you by 401k Fridays, the podcast that cares. Check it out on. I think it comes out on, like, Wednesday. [29:54] JD: It should be noted that my daughter did all the music programming on the background for you. All right, you ready? [30:01] Chad: No. Erisa. [30:11] Mark: Erisa. Ruthless, rude reaper of regulations. Complicated, convoluted, cavernous captain. Unshowing, unsharing, un. Understood. Seeking 408B2 in the night air. A 316 lost. Except only the failure of the ADP. I am corrected. [30:51] JD: Just add this acapella, bro. [30:53] Mark: I am corrected. Funds returned. Fred Reich. Hallelujah. [31:02] JD: Is that it? [31:03] Mark: This poem sucks. [31:13] Chad: I was reading that as he was going through and pretty praying he didn't have the A word or the three letter acronym. I double checked before. [31:20] JD: He's a professional. He stuck with the audio problem and [31:23] Chad: everything other words of the episode prior. No, I was not a professional. I stopped. We're gonna stage fright. [31:27] JD: We're gonna stick with a robe. We're gonna stick with a scarf. I want to say stick with our hot wings, but my mouth is still on fire. Hey, talking a lot actually helped. We'll keep these things going, okay? That was phenomenal, Mark. I really appreciate that. [31:42] Nevin Adams: Don't quit your data. [31:45] Mark: Well, based on the conversation we had earlier about MEPs, I already applied for jobs. [31:52] JD: That's not a joke at all of your firms. Mark was sitting over there and he was taking notes. And on Brian's presentation, he handed me his laptop. And at the bottom was find new job. [32:05] Chad: He asked if I'd be a referral for him. [32:08] Mark: All right, you all said No, I [32:09] JD: want to talk about a new song. You got a question for us? Wonderful. [32:14] Justin: Feel terrible that happened. [32:16] Chad: Who's sending these questions? [32:17] Justin: Everybody in the audience. So what's the best TPA marketing idea that you've ever. [32:23] JD: Nice. What? [32:25] Chad: I tried to bait him with the same question. [32:27] JD: Simple but nice. [32:29] Justin: Seen in the past year. I'm gonna put that to you because I gotta eat. [32:33] JD: You gonna put it to me? You're the market, the best team. [32:38] Chad: Wait, what do you think I did? I missed the rest of the question. [32:41] JD: What? I almost repeated the question. When you answer a question, we can't [32:47] Chad: hear you down here. Can you repeat the question, please? [32:49] Mark: I know how I feel. [32:50] JD: I'm checking my mic. [32:52] Justin: I don't know how much I have to dip in here. [32:54] Mark: A lot. A lot. You have to cover the whole thing. [32:57] Chad: I don't know, but come on. Did you see what Nevin did? [33:00] Nevin Adams: Yeah, that's right. [33:01] Chad: He dove in there. [33:02] Justin: I. [33:03] JD: That's an interesting question. I haven't really seen a ton. That got me super excited. We were having dinner with an advisor last night. Fair enough. I will get to it. Let me finish my sentence. [33:18] Chad: He's scared. [33:20] JD: And he asked me, hey, is there any other third party administrator that you really admire or you'd like to be like, someday? And it kind of caught me off guard, was like, geez, I'd have to think about that more. I saw one recently in Southern California that I thought was kind of cool. They had partnered with the Surfrider foundation, which protects beaches. Yeah. And they had done a beach cleanup. And so I thought that was cool. That's a cool marketing thing. That's different. I hadn't seen before kind of tying doing good and promotion at the same time. So that's my answer to that question. And if you don't mind, could you hook me up with the medium? Am I the first to go up to the medium? [34:03] Nevin Adams: Nope, Nope. [34:04] Chad: That's what Mark did. [34:05] JD: That's right. Whoa. [34:07] Mark: It's got a real good flavor. [34:08] JD: And we're going to jump to another question. Okay. All right. Well, don't let the audience run the show too much. [34:16] Chad: Okay. [34:17] Justin: From Shannon. [34:18] Mark: Amanda [34:21] Justin: Iverson wants to know why there's more. [34:24] JD: Oh, your mic fell. Amanda wants why. We are an all male cast. [34:30] Nevin Adams: That's a good way to get invited up onto the stage. [34:34] JD: That is actually salt on the wound for me because I have seen all of this work stuff and all these female conferences, and I've been having serious FOMO and jealousy because they do such a great job with it, the branding, the design. They're having so much fun. They're singing karaoke as a group. There's all these great social media pictures, and I'm like, I want to be part of those conferences. So for you to then take a stab back at me. I want to be in your group and you're ripping on me. I will tell you this. Some of my favorite shows have been with a female guest. Like, I've had a blast with Janice Stout on the show and Sherry Fitz and Rebecca. So we've had some good female guests. But Amanda, if you would like to be the sixth retireholic, just let us know. Okay? [35:30] Chad: It's all stage props, by the way, so you don't have anything to worry about. Gave me a fake hot sauce. [35:34] Mark: Hey, by the way, it would be the seventh. You're forgetting about my dog. [35:37] JD: Can we talk about something else? I almost just ate meat for the first time in seven years. Justin, Yo's got him. Oh, geez. Not cool. [35:48] Nevin Adams: Super cool. [35:49] JD: Not cool. [35:50] Chad: Jason, I feel like you should eat that. [35:51] JD: Here's the next subject I'd like to tackle. And coincidentally, the next subject has one of the prohibitive words in it. But I would like to talk to the group up here and have you guys think about 401k fees and the compression around 401k fees. But specifically, I'm going to kind of blame financial professionals and what I'm talking about. You guys all know what I'm talking about. Spreadsheets and pushing your fees lower and asking the record keeper to drop 10 basis points. And I'm getting this vibe from the investment professionals that apparently their clients are very frugal because their clients have told them that they need to run out and find the cheapest stuff they can find. My personal opinion is that they're being wussies, that they are not in their selling value, selling service. They're taking the path of least resistance. Okay. I would like for us to teach them that that's not the best way to do it. However, I think if you talk to advisors and. [36:58] Chad: Oh, all right. [37:02] Mark: Old game. [37:05] Justin: Done. [37:06] JD: Chad, you might have to take over the show, though, in a little bit. I think if you were my whole life for this home, I think if. If you were to go to investment professionals and say, hey, you need to sell value, you need to sell service, you need to sell luxury, you need to stop pushing the fees so low. I feel as though it's going to go in one year and out the other because they're. They're going to be looking after themselves. And they think that they will be more successful if they present the lowest fees possible. I'm here to present a counterintuitive solution. I think that that's wrong. And I've learned from other investment professionals, like Janice Stout, like Alex Asali, that their businesses, they sell more and close more because they sell higher price. So hear me out on this. I honestly think that if an advisor went to, in theory, oh, gosh, there's [38:08] Chad: not even a fourth level. [38:09] JD: Okay, I'll be fine. I'll be fine. Went to 100 meetings and just give them the cup of sauce and sold lowest cost. I believe that they would close less than if they went in and said, you know what? I'm more expensive than your current investment professional. The record keeper that I've chosen is actually 10 basis points more than the others. But this is why. And I'm talking. I'm a consumer. I'm a small business owner, okay? 26 employees at my firm. That's a mom and pop shop. [38:48] Mark: What kind of firm? [38:49] JD: I will gladly. I will gladly pay five grand, ten grand, fifteen grand for a paperless system, printers that make the job easier for my staff, whatever. I will pay more money for something that's more effective and does better for my team. And I'm a small business. So these investment professionals, they're getting it wrong. I believe they would win the trust of their clients and close more business if they tried the other way. Thoughts? Opinions? Here I go. I might be gone for a little while. [39:29] Nevin Adams: Well, somebody needs to talk and save you from yourself. You know, you're absolutely right. I mean, you understand, of course, why those individuals are pushing for the lowest fee. I mean, it's a litigation hot point. They're clients are pushing them on that point. And, you know, they're looking around everybody behind them and saying, you know, what can you give me? Kind of thing so you understand why they're, why they're pressing that. But to your point, there's no reason it says you have to step back from that and take it, if you will. I think in a lot of cases, this goes back to. We were talking earlier. People don't understand what you do. They don't know what it's worth. I mean, they'll, they'll appreciate it when you screw it up. Or, you know, they may appreciate it when the firm you take over from screws up and you come in and save their bacon, but their memories tend to be relatively short, and they tend to assume. I mean, that's the problem. About what you all do. You're expected to do it perfectly every single freaking day, but nobody really appreciates what that means until you don't. So it gets back to being able to articulate what you do. And I would argue, as we said earlier in a, in a description that is understandable and maybe even a little, God forbid, you know, sexy, something that sort of has some appeal to it and, and, but also conveys the value of what you're bringing in. Because I just don't think it's there right now today. I think, I think it's been allowed to be sort of relegated to the back room, if you will. And it's glad that you take care of it, but it's just not really appreciated as people appreciate the value bring. Trust me, you won't have any problems getting the value that you're asking. Because they need. And they in this case is not only the plan sponsors, but those other in their name, unnamed individuals the JD keeps talking about. They really care because I said earlier, if you mess something up, it affects their business. [41:35] JD: Can I be crazy though? Like, I get that and I understand that we need to have them understand our value, but I'm just getting a little weird now. I want to go kind of left turn here. What I'm saying is put that aside. I think if advisor. Investment professionals, they catch himself if their goal is to close, take it more business and your goal is to counsel them and to help them be more successful. I'm telling you what is counterintuitive to them that you should teach them is that they will close more and close at a higher ratio if they stop doing it the way they're currently doing it and start to focus more on a value add model not only for themselves, but for their partners. And they'll win more. And that's what they want to hear from you. And it's the truth. And then we can kill two birds with one stone. We can stop this feet compression and we can also service the advisors that we love and care about so much and want to be successful in a better way. Give it to me. [42:45] Chad: My mouth said I would take one for you, jd. [42:49] JD: Take one and give me another. [42:50] Chad: I'm not gonna go to his cold. [42:52] JD: I'm not gonna eat your chicken ends. [42:55] Chad: Here's what, here's my thought on some of that. In terms of the cost that they're representing. The problem that they continue to run into the financial professionals is they struggle to articulate. [43:06] Mark: Why don't you just say that you [43:08] Chad: can eat it Because I thought I'm taking it for him. Definitely not. [43:11] JD: The hot sauce mission has been accomplished. It worked. [43:15] Chad: They struggle to articulate their value. And so when they're trying to differentiate, what they're differentiating on is, oh, I'm going to do this review for you. Let me come in here and benchmark your costs. That's, that's my. That's what I'm doing for you. Now when you get into the Alex and the Janyas, they're fantastic at articulating what they're doing and they can prove it with documentation behind it. Here's, here's our RFP process I'm running for you every three years. And here's what we're doing on a fiduciary review process. The average advisor that this community is working. [43:44] Mark: Yeah, he actually said it. [43:45] JD: That's what. So can we help them do that? Yes. Okay, so that's what I want us to do. [43:50] Chad: And I will agree with you. I'll say this. I mean I sit in 150 point of sales a year. [43:55] JD: Don't brag, Chad. How's it going to raise those numbers, rookie? Jesus. [44:00] Chad: The point of, the point of mentioning that is I get to see those financial professionals talk about their service model in many different ways. And the ones like Alex and the ones like Janya and some others, Kate and others I mentioned 3 bell earlier, they have the ability of articulating what they're doing and not just they're showing it, they're showing samples. The client of saying, here's our financial wellness program. You're welcome, Mark. Here's our fiduciary review program. Here's how we are going to make an impact with the average investor in your firm. [44:32] JD: I need more cold beer. [44:34] Chad: And that, that is when you can sell value versus cost [44:39] JD: actually felt pretty good. [44:43] Mark: But you have to do another one too, by the way. [44:45] Chad: So. [44:46] Mark: Okay, just go right, right to it. [44:48] JD: It'll phenomenal points. All right, we're gonna play another game. By the way, everybody, this is the man with the mustache and the mic, Skyler man. [44:57] Chad: He's new, so he sits in the corner. [44:59] Mark: You wanna hot Mike? [45:03] Chad: I think it's also really tough too because the custodians that most people see in their marketing is fee compression too. So a lot of times I would [45:16] JD: say [45:18] Chad: generally people see those, you know, from 49495 per trade down to zero from Schwab and TD. Right. You know, like people see that and they're like, oh, super cheap. Awesome. And so I think that's just like a. [45:31] JD: Fair enough. [45:31] Chad: It's flowing over into our industry too. [45:34] JD: Right? [45:34] Chad: Fair. The marketing side, the E trades, it's all marketing. And they have the gigantic budgets to do that. [45:39] JD: Oh, my God. That's a great point. [45:42] Chad: Skyler, I'm starting to feel your pain now. [45:46] JD: I felt better when I was looking at. All right, we're going to play another game. Nevin. Oh, this is for you. Pick one of the hats. [45:56] Mark: What would you like in the front? Never mind. [45:58] JD: And we're. There's a question under these hats. We call this theme random, not 401k questions. [46:07] Chad: That one's hot. [46:08] JD: I know. Are you eating ice? [46:10] Chad: You are eating the trick. [46:12] JD: Sorry. Having. Technical difficult. So pick one of those hats and we'll pull the question for you. Maybe Skyler, you can grab the question. [46:20] Mark: Take a hat. [46:21] Justin: What? [46:21] Chad: Which hat? [46:22] Nevin Adams: Oh, take the red one. [46:24] Chad: The pink one. [46:24] Nevin Adams: Is it pink? Whatever. [46:26] Chad: That's definitely pink. [46:27] Nevin Adams: Well, it's not white. I know that. [46:29] Chad: Say I'm colorblind. You want me to read it here? Would you rather be the drummer for Nickelback [46:37] Mark: or the drummer for Def Leppard? [46:39] Nevin Adams: Oh, it just hit me. [46:41] Chad: Or the drummer for Def Leppard. [46:43] Nevin Adams: That may be a trick question. [46:46] JD: You understand the question, right? You can be the drummer. [46:50] Nevin Adams: I know. [46:50] JD: For Nickelback or Def Leppard. Which means. [46:53] Nevin Adams: Do I have to lose an army? [46:55] Chad: Yeah. [46:58] Nevin Adams: I just want to know. [46:59] JD: And by the way, to me, this is a no brainer answer. So if you get it wrong, I will not respect you. [47:07] Nevin Adams: Okay. [47:09] Mark: What? [47:09] JD: What's your answer? [47:10] Chad: What's your answer? [47:13] Nevin Adams: I just. I have to lose an arm. [47:15] JD: You will. Okay. He says Def Leppard. That's the. [47:17] Nevin Adams: Correct. Because those of you who don't know the drummer for Def Leppard was in an accident and lost one of his [47:22] JD: arms and continued to be one of the sweetest guitar drummers ever. [47:27] Nevin Adams: And he's still got an amazing kit set up and all that. He can do it. [47:31] JD: But I agree with that. Let's give him one more hat. We'll go one more. And there's some bad questions in here, so. [47:37] Nevin Adams: But I really don't want to be part of Nickelback. Okay. So, you know. All right. [47:43] JD: Or blue. [47:43] Nevin Adams: Whatever that is. [47:44] Chad: Down is the dark. [47:46] JD: I'm a little worried which one this is. [47:49] Chad: I'm happy he got this one. [47:50] JD: Okay, good. [47:51] Chad: Do you fold your teepee or do you crinkle your teepee? [47:57] JD: It's a little personal. [47:59] Justin: Well, we just got kicked out of our first question. [48:01] Chad: We're all gonna know by the Time [48:02] JD: you're done answering now. We're pushing towards getting kicked out of the conference. This right. It's all right. It's all headlines. [48:10] Mark: Did you forget a letter when you said that? [48:13] Chad: Oh, no, I'm not adding the A. [48:15] JD: Nevin, we'll answer on our behalf and then you can chime in. Like I. I fold and I probably waste way too much toilet paper. And I also would like to nominate, like, why can't we all use the. The wipes? The wipes are sweet. Have you ever used wipes? Wipes should be in every bathroom. [48:33] Chad: We all know spreadsheeted this. So you start with a fold and then you move to the crinkle at the end. [48:38] JD: That's not true. All right, Nevin, how about you, buddy? What. [48:42] Nevin Adams: What does this have? I mean, I guess this loosely has something to do with retirement, but. [48:46] JD: No, that's not like. [48:48] Mark: There you go. Yeah, well, yeah. Yeah, you're right. [48:53] Nevin Adams: Maybe that answer will change over time. [48:56] Chad: All right. [48:57] Nevin Adams: So we still doing this? [48:58] Chad: What you do have to answer. [49:00] Nevin Adams: I do have. [49:00] Chad: How about this? [49:01] Mark: This is a good. [49:02] JD: This is a good option for this. [49:03] Mark: This is on the hot wing show. You can either answer the question or [49:08] Chad: eat a hot wing. Your choice, buddy. [49:14] JD: I like that, Mark. [49:14] Mark: And I'll eat one with you. [49:17] Nevin Adams: Don't answer. No, man. [49:18] Mark: Make a meat. [49:19] Nevin Adams: Huh? [49:19] Justin: Don't answer. Make him eat. [49:20] Nevin Adams: Oh, you know, I'm tempted. [49:22] JD: I don't know. [49:22] Nevin Adams: Hey, I'm a guy, so you know what I do, right? There's no self respecting guy. Folds. Okay. [49:28] JD: What? [49:29] Chad: I absolutely fold. [49:31] JD: That hurts. [49:32] Nevin Adams: Like I said, [49:35] JD: that hurts. That hurts. Okay, that was a lot of fun. I actually think some of those hats would have been worse than that. [49:40] Nevin Adams: Hey, J.D. you do have a. I got something for you. Oh, I have something for you. I saw this and it. And it just came to me, so I have something for you. You know when you've made it, when you have your own bobblehead. [49:57] JD: Dude, that's sick. I actually. This is one of the best gifts I've ever gotten. So good. [50:06] Nevin Adams: So there you go. [50:07] Chad: That's amazing. [50:08] JD: Thank you very much. [50:09] Nevin Adams: That's your next marketing thing. [50:11] JD: Guys, before we get kicked out of this conference, let's move. Thank you. This is awesome. Let's move on to some real talk. [50:17] Mark: You guys want to get your CE credits for this course? [50:22] JD: Put in the code X, Y. No, let's talk about the conference here and some of the speakers that came before us. You're going to take that? Oh, yeah. [50:32] Mark: Thanks. [50:33] JD: And what'd you think? Anyone Want to chime in before me while my mouth burns on fire? [50:39] Chad: Yeah. No, I didn't want to chime in. [50:43] JD: Nevin, what'd you think of Brian's discussion? Give us your thoughts. [50:47] Nevin Adams: Oh, on social media? [50:49] JD: No mep, huh? Brian Graff, mep. Bro. You remember? [50:53] Nevin Adams: Yeah, I remember. [50:53] Chad: Brian Grant. [50:55] JD: I thought he killed it. I thought he did. [50:57] Nevin Adams: No, seriously. And. And I know some of you guys know this and maybe, Maybe you don't know. And I'll tell you, one of the reasons I came to this organization was because in my time in the industry, and it's been, you know, a while, and also my time in dc, it was obvious to me that, that aspa, ara, whatever, this, this was a group that got things done. That this. We knew how to get in and talk to people and actually make things happen. So we weren't just about sitting back and telling everybody what was going on and everything. We were actually influencing and making things different. There has been a lot of conversation internally with the LCs, with the boards, with individual members about, you know, anytime a subject like this kind of came up with the fiduciary rule. And it also has been a big, big deal in terms of maps and trying to figure that out and come up with the right solution. And so if you are impressed, I hope you were. I was, by hearing Brian and what he said and the position, all that kind of stuff. But what you really need to understand is just exactly how thoughtful that whole process has been as we've been sort of working our way through it, understanding and appreciating the potential problems and challenges and things like that, that it might actually mean for the industry and trying to figure out the best way to sort of navigate our way through that. You know, to Brian's point, when he talks about that train was coming anyway, I mean that literally. True. But I mean, you're rarely going to see an issue where people like Mitch McConnell and Elizabeth Warren are very much lined up and intrigued with the same concept. But for all of the things about our industry that people like Elizabeth Warren don't like, she's intrigued by the notion of maps. And so it really kind of hard to sort of get in front of that. But Brian's point earlier, and this is things, again, a lot of people weren't aware of, is the way this thing was being set up. I mean, you talk about being sort of cut out of everything. That was the way it was going. Now, I don't know how much this is going to upend our industry. I don't think any of us do right now. But I was telling Mickey earlier, I remember a discussion like this, very much like this back earlier in my career. And it had to do with daily valuation and it had to do with how daily. And we weren't even talking about what a participant's going to get out of it. We were all like completely convinced that participants were going to bear the brunt of it, that they were going to get hammered, that they were going to do stupid accounts and all that sort of stuff. And the industry writ large, if you weren't a large mutual fund behemoth, was very much opposed to this for all the reasons we know we're good in terms of keeping up with it. Ultimately you couldn't put that genie back in the bottle. You couldn't do anything about it. I personally lost a lot of business to people who were giving the services we charge for for free along with daily VAL and call center support and all that kind of stuff. You know what, it was a rough stretch. We figured it out, we came up with better solutions, were able to persuade people, reasonable minds who had sort of been through the lack of service they got with that model that we offered something better. [54:07] JD: That's a great analogy. That's a perfect analogy because I know it's pretty scary. [54:11] Chad: Jenny, I'll add real quick because I was chatting with a few folks in between the sessions about what we've done with some financial professionals that were pursuing us for the Met conversation because we've kind of held firm that it's not really where we want to go. I'll just say it. And so I've spent quite a bit of time working with some fairly large advisors, financial professionals, where we've gone to the record keepers and we've said we want to build a micro market solution for this practice, this financial professional practice. And we've essentially gathered bids from multiple different providers and we've said here's what, here's what this professional wants. They want the same 338 lineup on every plan. They want the same implementation person. They want the same ongoing service person. They want to know that notices will be, will be taken care of by the record keeper. And we've built out what we feel like gives all the benefits of a MEP and then rolled it out to their micro market clients. And these specific folks were doing this because they're in the upper market. [55:13] JD: What he's trying to say is he built it out in an UNMEP like solution. [55:17] Chad: It is, it feels like a map minus it actually being all the characteristics [55:22] JD: of the map that they wanted you built in a non MEP solution. [55:25] Chad: Exactly. And the conversation that I've had with these folks is why do you want a map? And when they broke down the reasons, we accomplished every single one of those. Not one of those, which is what I think is the biggest reason for a map is to avoid the audit for each individual practice. Because the plans that they're putting inside the solution are not north of 100 or 120 folks. They're 25 people shops. And so now they get customized pricing. We've done it with Voya, Principal Hancock. They get customized pricing from both us as the third party administrator and the record keeper. And they get the feel of the map, the conversation of a map, a custom solution built for their practice. Not private labeled, but all the marketing, sales and all material are private labels. [56:08] Justin: Label. [56:09] JD: I get it. [56:09] Chad: And they're not falling into this gray abyss right now on the map. [56:13] Nevin Adams: And you guys, you guys are going to figure, just like he's talking, you're you, we're going to figure this out. But remember that our big challenge, this is something we talked about at the conference last year. This coverage gap is huge. And you can see all the remarkable positive impacts that we have had as an industry in terms of helping people who have a plan have a successful retirement. But we just, despite all of that, we've not been able to move that coverage needle. MEPs may or may not move that needle far. The hope is that it will help move the needle. And I think at a minimum, what all the talk about this is going to do is it's going to give us an opportunity to talk to plan sponsors about the benefits of having a plan. And they're going to want to know what is the big deal about this MEP stuff I keep hearing about. And you're going to have an opportunity to talk to them about what it is, but also what it isn't. So take the media coverage as an opportunity to open the door because I think it could do that. And look for opportunities to help your business move along with that trend and how you can take advantage of it. Because I think those opportunities will be there. Also. [57:32] JD: Can I counter Brian a little bit too? And I love. [57:35] Nevin Adams: No, you're not allowed to counter Brian. [57:37] JD: And I, like I said I loved his presentation. I thought it was great. I like his no BS approach. Like I feel like he's not going to tell you all what you want to hear. He's going to tell you what he thinks is going on and I really respect that. But I live in the micro market, you know, the sub 10 million market. And I think there's a lot of investment professionals that are specific to retirement plan in that space. Brian referred to them as brokers. These are people I'd call not brokers. And they want to provide value and services and make money from their client base. And to me the map doesn't accomplish that for them because the only person that's really reducing price in a map, to me the admin's the same. Right? It's still going to cost you for the admin. Record keepers have been gathering assets for decades. Like you today. Could go to a record keeper and say, hey, I want to bring you 60 plans with 500 million and they'll give you a pricing reduction that exists pre maps. And I saw people earlier today giving counter arguments to all the pros of maps. And I totally agree with those comments. But focus more on the advisor. That's what I've been telling advisors. I'll do it, I'll do it. I've actually come back to normal. [58:55] Chad: So I'm holding here in my mouth [58:57] JD: and we're about to wrap it. Talk to them about what do they want for their business practice and counsel them as a business owner. Do they want to make more revenue for just revenue, prudent revenue from their client base or would they rather create a cookie cutter solution that cuts their revenue in a third? And I think the answer is obvious. I think the big shops will want to use MEPs, the big, big shops that focus 20 million and up and maybe even they're going to use it in the small micro market because they're not there yet and they want to go there in an efficient way. But I just don't think it's all the doom and gloom that I heard from Brian. I think there's plenty of ways to combat this and I think we'll still push and sell and market and consult and, and, and win, but we'll see how it goes. But I'm not as doom and gloom as he was. But we'll see who's right and who's wrong. [59:52] Chad: J.D. before we jump off stage, I want to add to your. [59:55] JD: Give me that. Give me the hot. [59:57] Chad: Oh my gosh, that one hurts. I want to add to your conversation on social media and just give a a couple of points. [1:00:05] JD: You're reviewing the presenters today and one of them is me. Who is your favorite presenter today? Chad? [1:00:10] Chad: Not you, not you at all. Okay. What I Want to add is I've. We have worked as a sales team to use this. So for our community out there, when we have a meeting that is not close to home, give you an example. I live down in San Jose, California. If I have meetings north of the Golden Gate and I'm not full on that day, one of the first things I do is jump on LinkedIn and I geographically locate that area and I look at Advisor Dang it, knew it was coming, that I'm connected with, that I'm not currently set up to meet or have not met. But they see the content we're putting out there and I reach out to them on LinkedIn. I don't send them an email. I reach out to them on LinkedIn because that's where they see my presence and I say, hey, I'm going to be in the area. The common approach, which is true. I'm up in Marin today. I'm going to be there. Let me come visit you. So while a social media presence is great, it can also help you fill the calendar. [1:01:03] JD: Yeah. [1:01:03] Chad: Pretty quickly. [1:01:04] JD: Better than an email. Okay. [1:01:06] Nevin Adams: And guys, by the way, we generate a lot of content that liking and sharing our stuff is not only good for my business, I think it'll be good for your business. And trust me, if you comment on any of the stuff I put up, I have a load of followers and there's a lot of opportunity. [1:01:23] Mark: How many? [1:01:24] Chad: Yeah, Sherry Fitz is still in the lead. In terms of people who have been on this. [1:01:27] Nevin Adams: I don't know how sher. How many she got. [1:01:29] Chad: You're approaching. I think she was at like 12,000 out there. [1:01:32] Nevin Adams: I'm only 11. 442. [1:01:36] Mark: How many? [1:01:36] Nevin Adams: Not that I'm paying attention. [1:01:38] Chad: Yo, ask JD. Where are you at? JD, don't say 11. 443. [1:01:42] JD: I said it earlier. I get my mouth's on fire chat. [1:01:45] Chad: Oh, my gosh, it hurts. [1:01:47] JD: All right, we gotta wrap Cherry works this. [1:01:49] Nevin Adams: I mean, you know, now, Jeff Aton, he had like over 16 or 17,000 last time I checked with him. [1:01:56] JD: Don't. Don't forget to. It's not about how many followers you have. It's about the engagement. Right. So you can have that too. But your content's got to be engaged with people to where you're getting comments and. And it creates things. [1:02:09] Chad: So JD, Error 5. First episode. You didn't drop an F bomb. Good job. [1:02:14] JD: I didn't swear. [1:02:15] Chad: I didn't. I think he sweared once you said the sh word, but no F bomb it. [1:02:19] JD: I usually cuss On. [1:02:20] Chad: Good job. [1:02:20] JD: I don't. Thanks. Yeah. Don't clap for me. Not cussing. I like to cuss. Okay, we're gonna wrap this. We are gonna be upstairs for the, the dinner and we have a little table. You still got one in the side. [1:02:34] Chad: But I go back to number one. That's fine. Three is. [1:02:37] JD: And we're gonna be playing games. You can come on over, say hi, play a little game. I'm gonna have a beer pong. Hats on Justin and Mark. If you make it in their cups, you can get retireholic schwag. And you can come in if you [1:02:51] Chad: want insured for liver failure. [1:02:52] JD: Get a poster with Nevin Adams autograph on it. [1:02:56] Nevin Adams: What? [1:02:56] JD: Please come and get the posters because we did a conference in Nashville and I. There was going to be like four or five hundred people there and so I. I ordered like 150 posters. People are going to love these posters. Sign them. I have like 125 posters in my garage. So you make me feel a lot better if you come over and like just pretend like you want our autograph. [1:03:22] Mark: Even if you just use it for. Yeah, okay. That folded or crinkle it, I don't know. I would fold that. [1:03:30] JD: That's crumble. If you have a cat, you could use it in your litter box. Whatever you want to do. But we'll be up there. Come say hi. Devin, thank you for being on our show. [1:03:40] Nevin Adams: Yeah, man, thanks. [1:03:41] JD: We have a little sign out that we do all the time. You can join along if you'd like because I know you know it. [1:03:49] Mark: We're still breathing. [1:03:50] Nevin Adams: Yeah. [1:03:51] Justin: Sorry for all you guys. [1:03:52] Nevin Adams: I didn't get to. [1:03:53] Justin: Obviously you can tell we're running over a lot of great comments. A lot of angry comments at us for not providing them with beers, for making them. [1:03:59] Mark: Yeah, sorry. [1:04:00] JD: No problem. And. And thank you. [1:04:03] Mark: Our hands are tied. [1:04:05] JD: Thank you for providing us your cell numbers because we'll be texting you on any new products we have coming out or whatever. No, thank you so much for coming. We are the retireholics and we are changing the retirement plan industry. One beer, one cauliflower hot wing or chicken Hot wing at a time with our buddy, Nevin Adams. [1:04:31] Mark: Cheers. [1:04:33] JD: We'll see upstairs. [1:04:36] Mark: That was awesome, man. [1:04:39] Chad: That was painful.