Small Business Coverage Gap & PEPs with Daniella Moiseyev

[0:00] JD: Welcome everybody, to another episode of Retireholics. Coming at you live from the 2021 wealth at Work in Nashville, Tennessee. What time did you make it to your hotel room last night, Chad? [0:15] Chad: It's sometime after 3. [0:17] JD: Did you have breakfast today? [0:18] Chad: I made it to Brandon's hotel room first. [0:20] JD: Did you have breakfast today? [0:21] Chad: Did not eat breakfast today. I think eating the pizza at 4 in the morning counts as breakfast. That's true. That's true. [0:26] JD: The boys got lost in the the streets of Nashville last night. [0:30] Chad: Two of them might have taken a nap on the sidewalk for about five minutes in a very cuddled fashion. I forgot. [0:35] JD: But we're here. But we're here. It's been a great conference so far. Ross and his team is doing a great job. Lots of cool topics, lots of great speakers. Let's get right to it though. Justin, intro our guest. [0:50] Chad: What? This is a reoccurring theme. We do this every week. Justin, you didn't tell me I had to write an intro. I can feel his poles climbing right now. Danielle, I failed you. I'm so sorry. [1:01] Daniella Moiseyev: And you're no longer my favorite. That's it. [1:03] Chad: That's why you're taking out J.D. you got a freestyle. [1:06] JD: You know what to do out there at home. Rate. Justin, on a scale of 0 to [1:09] Chad: 10, when I don't prep, I at least say something. [1:12] JD: Today's. [1:12] Chad: Could you at least say her name? [1:14] JD: I don't even know how to pronounce [1:15] Chad: her name, actually, since we have her on the show, how do we pronounce her last name? [1:19] Daniella Moiseyev: Well, it's phonetic because I'm Russian. So you pronounce every syllable. It's Moy Sayev. [1:24] Chad: Yeah, that's. [1:27] JD: That's why Chad, Daniela, Moye Sayev is here today. A long time retireholics, family member. Many, many pastime. Chat bar champion. We are excited to have you here today. [1:39] Chad: It's a great intro. Five time. [1:40] Daniella Moiseyev: Five and a half, actually. I think I tied with Hackler once. [1:43] JD: Now you know the rules. This isn't your first rodeo, but we will be playing acro send start starting now. [1:49] Chad: Is that a pun? Because we're in Nashville Rodeo. No. Yeah. [1:54] JD: No, J.D. [1:55] Chad: rehearsed that one. [1:57] JD: We will be playing agro Sim. We will be playing chat bar champion. So do your thing out there and we'll vote for that at the end of the show. Let's go straight. [2:07] Chad: We're gonna vote for that. [2:08] Daniella Moiseyev: Yeah. We can't see the chat bar. [2:10] JD: Well, we gotta vote for someone. Just help us out. [2:12] Chad: Three people in the chat won't be hard. [2:16] JD: Brandon, can we go to headlines? Headlines. Does that work? Justin's broken today. [2:21] Chad: But Justin can look at his computer and let us know what's happening. [2:25] JD: Maybe not. [2:26] Chad: It's off the rails right now. [2:29] JD: Guys, let me explain something. This is just like we do this every week. There's definitely different here. I don't know why. Thank you. Headlines are all right. We got one headline. It's a dicey one. [2:43] Chad: It's a juicy one. [2:44] JD: It's a juicy one. [2:45] Chad: I was wondering. [2:46] JD: I woke up Friday morning. I was in a hotel in Hollywood. I think you all know that I went to the concert after the show. [2:51] Chad: There's this going. Only one video. [2:54] JD: I opened up the. [2:56] Chad: In your room. [2:56] JD: I will open up the laptop. [2:59] Chad: And that's juicy. [3:01] JD: And there was an article written by Fred Barnstein, RPA Convergence Investment News. [3:06] Chad: Wait. [3:07] JD: Oh, shit. Just one. Just one. [3:11] Chad: Wow. We didn't even go over. [3:13] JD: And we're back with Milort and Ah, [3:16] Chad: I could taste that through. [3:17] JD: Most of the article was about this concept of consolidation and us getting down to five or four record keepers and what that might mean for the industry. But about three quarters of the way down, he had a sentence where he made some comments about the national association of Plan Advisors. [3:36] Chad: Well, it was not named an association. [3:40] JD: And kind of some loose language around how maybe they might be in the back pocket of Wall Street. The record keepers, the money managers. Well, as I'm reading that one, it comes to my attention that we have [3:53] Daniella Moiseyev: hijinks in the audience. [3:54] JD: American Retirement association or the National Plan Advisors had a retort article. Is that the right word for that? Yeah, that was penned by. Or that had the names. [4:06] Chad: We didn't answer that yet. [4:08] JD: Three advisors. I'm not. I'm not so certain. They wrote that it might have been someone else, but they came back because. And said, hey, look, this is not cool. Like, this is not the goal of Napa is not to be in the back pocket of these. [4:19] Chad: Why couldn't that have just been the article right there? This isn't cool. And then you just. [4:26] JD: Yeah, I think Fred has gone back since or today or yesterday and kind of softened a bunch. [4:32] Chad: He changed one word. [4:33] JD: And I've talked to both entities. I've talked to nap. [4:38] Chad: Oh, man. [4:38] JD: I've talked to people over there as well as I've had a small chat with Fred and I. I think they're back to loving each other a little bit. But if you haven't seen that, go check that out. It was very dramatic and fun on a Friday. [4:53] Chad: Let's chat a little bit at least about the validity of it. [4:56] JD: Okay. [4:58] Chad: He supported the thoughts of this consolidation with years of research of other industries like it's. [5:05] JD: So nobody had an issue with that. [5:06] Chad: Would it be a good thing if the record keeping community became a group of three that carried 90% of all assets? [5:14] JD: I think that sounds scary for a lot of reasons. I also want to be clear, the national association of Plan Advisors had no disagreement about that. They weren't, they weren't countering that was the comments made about them about them being in the pocket. So to answer your question, I think that sounds scary, especially about some of the subjects we're talking here today where our record keepers are delivering financial planning, wellness, trying to monetize the participant. If you get down to three of them or four of them, then I think you're going to see that happening in a big, big way because they have control, they've got basically you're going [5:50] Chad: to see it happening regardless. [5:51] JD: Fair enough. [5:52] Chad: I think if we get down to a few it will allow them, as they say in the article with scale become more effective at delivering what is going to be the next step in this industry which is this conversions. [6:04] JD: Let me ask you this. [6:05] Chad: What does it matter if it's down to three or four? It can happen right now with how many there are. I just said. [6:10] JD: Yeah, I wonder dynamic though, there's three [6:12] Daniella Moiseyev: or four at a bunch of the advisors, where are they walking to one of those three or four. Right. Right now there's a little bit more fractions in the market and if a few advisors walk, you know, but if there's three or four like they have more power. [6:27] Chad: Right. [6:28] JD: You're getting closer to a monopoly and the tendencies that you get with monopoly even though there's still three competing. But let me ask you this. When you get to that point, point, don't markets always kind of correct themselves? Like aren't you gonna see small disruptors still come to the market, start to gain market share? Isn't it kind of a cyclical thing or is that not true? [6:47] Chad: I think that's very true. But you saw he addressed that in the article, which is those groups will be acquired quickly. [6:52] JD: Does that happen with airlines these days? You still see new upstart airlines as well. [6:58] Daniella Moiseyev: The barrier of entry there is so high overhead. I mean look at let's say cell phone coming companies, right? I mean that's three. The one that's like the prepaid. [7:08] JD: But you definitely lose. [7:09] Chad: That's a good example. [7:10] JD: You lose the benefits of competition for sure. And I would even think you'd lose a bit of innovation and, and evolution of stuff. You've only got 3 versus 18 or 20. [7:21] Chad: I think most of the evolution that's come and innovation that's come in our space in the last decade or two has come from these startups funded, willing to take some risk companies. I mean you're not seeing the big name record keepers create much innovation. They'll buy it, right? [7:37] Daniella Moiseyev: Yeah. [7:37] Chad: They'll go out and buy a new company that's coming up with something creative. [7:40] JD: News alert everyone. Have you ever seen Chad talk shit about the record keepers? That was like first time ever. Let's go into some topics that our guest wanted to talk about. [7:53] Chad: Wait, who's our guest? Justin, remind us next time. [7:56] Daniella Moiseyev: I'll send you a pre done intro. [7:59] Chad: She's a world renowned hot sauce maker. [8:03] Daniella Moiseyev: That's right. That is my claim to fame. [8:04] JD: We'll have Quiz of Death. [8:05] Chad: She flew herself here on her private plane. [8:09] JD: I invited her to be a guest on the show. And then in the interim news bulletins come out. She's got a new gig which I think is cool. So maybe we can talk a little bit about that. [8:21] Chad: She's the fifth retire. Holla. We can tell everybody now. [8:24] JD: Sorry about that. [8:25] Daniella Moiseyev: You guys definitely need to take the testosterone down a bit. You do need a woman. [8:28] Chad: That's what I'm for. [8:29] JD: If you, if you haven't. [8:30] Chad: Way down. [8:31] JD: If you haven't heard of Smart, they're a company out of the uk. [8:35] Chad: Does that stand for something? [8:37] Daniella Moiseyev: It is Smart Pension uk. [8:38] Chad: But what is. [8:39] Daniella Moiseyev: No, it is not an attitude. [8:41] Chad: Not now. It should be. [8:42] JD: And what do we call the, what do we call the pooled employer plans in the UK is one in the United Kingdom. [8:48] Chad: You're getting hit right now. [8:50] JD: Two for you. By the way. [8:51] Daniella Moiseyev: It's called a master trust and they [8:53] JD: have dominated in that space. [8:54] Daniella Moiseyev: Indeed. [8:55] JD: And now coming to the US with the United States with hundreds of millions north of 200 million in investor money to tackle the pooled employer plan market. What's your role? What's your role? When does it start? Are you excited? [9:12] Daniella Moiseyev: I'm extremely excited. So I start Wednesday. I go straight from this conference to my first day which will largely involve getting technology and getting my email set up. So I think I'm gonna make a huge impact on that first day. [9:22] JD: Getting your email set up takes days, Right? [9:25] Daniella Moiseyev: But it's, I'm really excited about it. We are the, the subsidiary for the United States. We'll be here in Nashville and it's a really, really. [9:35] Chad: Yeah. [9:36] JD: That's a coincidence. Headquarters are in Nashville. [9:38] Daniella Moiseyev: Yeah. That was completely. I already booked the conference and I just happened to say. I said, well, I'm gonna be in town. [9:48] JD: Keep going. [9:49] Chad: Sorry. [9:50] Daniella Moiseyev: Really, really excited. The first step is as a pooled plan provider. But I think we're looking at other ways in which to enter the market. Smart has a really amazing technology, so really it's a true fintech. It's not, you know, in the mold of a record keeper. That may be some of the solutions. We own the code, so. So it's all proprietary code. They are expanding globally. So it's really, really exciting. I'm going to be the head of marketing for the United States. Get to build a team, get to build the brand, get to build the positioning. I'm super thrilled, super excited. [10:26] Chad: Do you need brand ambassadors? [10:28] Daniella Moiseyev: I might need brand ambassadors. I don't know what I need yet. [10:31] Chad: Just for the robe. [10:32] JD: Yeah. [10:33] Chad: Just not these guys. Just me. [10:35] JD: Well, I will tell you this. You know, everyone knows how anti pool employer plan I can be, but I did take note of this company and I was really impressed. And I'm not just saying this because you were here. I honestly felt this. No, they are going after the startup market and my, my complaint with a lot of the pooled employer plans is they're going after takeover business. Right. They're just trying to win assets. And the whole reason, you know, I've said this before is the government put this in place to help with the gap. Right. The gap coverage. And that means startup plans. And, and Smart wants to go after these startup plans. So kudos to them for. [11:11] Chad: That's really Smart. Daniela, did. Do you think that they made the leap coming to the U.S. united States? [11:21] JD: That's two of two. One of two letters. That's 50% you take. [11:25] Chad: You think they made the leap coming to the United States when the pooled employer plan world was solidified with. With legislation. [11:34] Daniella Moiseyev: Right. But I certainly. I think it's a good catalyst. Right. So I think that there may have been stuff in the works ahead of the secure act, but that counts. [11:47] Chad: Oh my gosh. That is. I know you don't remember it. [11:50] JD: Oh, you weren't there. You weren't in Chicago. Chap was in Chicago. I just has first Malort. Look at him. [11:57] Chad: Wait till you about 30 minutes. And I just burped and it made me want [12:05] JD: with you for a little bit. The. The kind of news releases I saw did say like hey, secured. Setting up every cat for whatever was there inspiration to come to this market. But anyways. [12:19] Daniella Moiseyev: Well, I think the parent company Smart Pensions in the United Kingdom has ambitions to be truly global. And you can't say you're a truly global retirement provider or retirement technology provider if you're not in the US So I think it was a great. The timing aligned the stars aligned United States. [12:37] JD: Oh, God, you're so welcome. Do you know, are there United Kingdom British people on the team here in Nashville? [12:47] Daniella Moiseyev: Oh, God, that's awful. [12:48] JD: Don't drink too much. [12:51] Daniella Moiseyev: Anyway, there are, you know, so we'll be partnering very closely. There's a large marketing team in the United Kingdom that I'll have access to and be able to work with. [12:59] JD: Do they brush their teeth? [13:00] Daniella Moiseyev: They do, as far as I know. I didn't ask, but, you know, I [13:03] Chad: would guess where to stereotypes, [13:07] Daniella Moiseyev: you know, there are that are in the United Kingdom, United States, folks, I'm making another one of those. [13:14] Chad: We'll give you a check soon. [13:16] JD: Very cool. We're excited for you. It'll be fun to see that play out. Are we excited? Yeah. Are we really excited? [13:23] Chad: Yeah. [13:23] Daniella Moiseyev: Are you excited about it? [13:24] Chad: I really thought that you would, like, come join us. And now you didn't accept our offer and you went elsewhere to, like, make tons of money and do real jobs. Well, you had to give her more than $25. [13:33] Daniella Moiseyev: Well, you know, for me, because, you know, being the. The female retireholic was just an absolute top the piece pinnacle of my ideas of success. But in the end, you'll be traveling. It was a very compelling opportunity. [13:48] JD: Will you be traveling a lot? [13:49] Daniella Moiseyev: I'll be coming in here to Nashville probably every other week or so. [13:53] JD: Yeah. [13:53] Daniella Moiseyev: Which is going to be awesome. The. The office is super cool. It's like a warehouse conversion. It's really neat. [13:59] JD: Hipster. [14:00] Daniella Moiseyev: And then obviously, you know, as needed, I'm sure I'll be on the conference circuit like I always have been. So. [14:05] JD: All right, we'll keep our. [14:06] Chad: So you'll. You won't forget about us? [14:07] Daniella Moiseyev: I won't forget about him, but I won't forget about you. [14:10] Chad: Ouch. I thought I was your favorite. [14:12] JD: Well, no, not. [14:13] Daniella Moiseyev: You missed my intro. [14:15] JD: Let's continue drinking it over his head for a long time. Let's spin the wheel of ice. But before we spin it, Danielle, you must choose a retireholic to be aligned with. And if they lose, you have to drink with them. [14:27] Daniella Moiseyev: Oh, no. Oh, you guys are just really mean today. [14:30] JD: Thank you. [14:31] Daniella Moiseyev: Because I've already given Mark the love and I mad at Justin. It's Going to be Chad. [14:35] Chad: All right. [14:36] JD: Be aligned with Chad. [14:37] Chad: And this game is not full of integrity. In all likelihood we will lose. [14:48] JD: I can't get my voice that's right for a shitty intro. Double them up, double them up. [14:59] Chad: That's where the B we're not doing froze. Right. It lingers for long hours. Seven hours. Here comes the froze. [15:08] JD: You're safe. Good. I mean you need me to hold that intro. [15:13] Daniella Moiseyev: That's what like single handedly keeping Smirnoff Ice in business because pretty much that's disgusting. [15:18] Chad: That's our biggest sponsor. [15:20] JD: Pretty much we drink one a week so we're in their back pocket more than anybody else. Good one. Let's. Let's dive into. [15:29] Chad: So sorry about that. I, I won't buy smear out pies in public. I have to order it to be delivered. [15:39] JD: You know, not just because your new role. You had an interest in this in general. You wanted to talk about small business, the coverage gap. I think you even know some stats and stuff. Why don't you refresh us? Like what? What's the status of small businesses and their lack of retirement? [15:58] Daniella Moiseyev: So pocket beer, if you think about the industry, right. We have not moved the needle in 40 years on coverage. [16:05] Chad: It's moved a little, [16:08] JD: a little bit. [16:09] Daniella Moiseyev: But you know, less than 10% of businesses have retirement plans. There's about 500,000 retirement plans. There's about six, five and a half million small businesses without a retirement plan. And we haven't changed that. Right. And there's about 12, 500 advisors in the industry who do any scale, amount of retirement plan business. [16:30] JD: 500 advisors that have some kind of [16:32] Daniella Moiseyev: sort of focus on a decent enough focus. Right. So that's how come we only get, [16:36] JD: how come we only get 10 to tune into our show? Sorry, keep going. [16:39] Daniella Moiseyev: We have 282,000 wealth management advisors in this country who don't, who might have, you know, a plan, two plans, whatever. And then we have these, you know, five to six months million small businesses without plans. And that's 60 million savers that don't have access to a plan. And somebody of moderate income, 30 to $50,000 income is 12 times more likely to save if they have access to a plan at work than they will on their own. So why are we all fighting over that same half million plans in the country? Let's look at startups, let's expand the coverage. I think that's what PEPs were built to do. [17:16] JD: It's okay. Finish your thoughts for them. You know what you'll do for me. [17:19] Daniella Moiseyev: Thank you. But that was Congress's intent. Right. And when we talk about pooled employer plans within our industry, when you guys talk about it, we're talking about, you know, larger plans or medium plans and takeaway plans and converting existing plans to this new structure. And maybe that's not the best thing [17:37] JD: in the world, getting your audit fee done. [17:39] Daniella Moiseyev: Let's talk about the $6 million. I mean, 6 million small businesses that don't have a plan. Let's give them a simple basic solution with, let's get those workers saving. That's what the pooled employer plan is built for. [17:50] Chad: It's amen, Daniela. Amen. [17:53] JD: Amen to getting those small businesses plans or amen to pooled employer plans being. [17:58] Chad: Amen to getting those people access to plans. [18:01] JD: What's been, what has stopped us because we talked about this idea of access [18:06] Chad: if no one uses it? Well, that's, that's a personal decision now. I can opt out of that. [18:13] Daniella Moiseyev: Yeah, but so few do. We use inertia for good, not for evil. [18:17] JD: We have worked in the microspace since the 70s. You know, my father started the company. My entire family's business is built on helping small businesses. Startup plans. How many startup plans have you guys sold in the last year? [18:33] Chad: 1. Tons. [18:34] JD: Tons. So they're doing something for the coverage gap. So I feel like there are solutions there. And, and we're helping people do that. But the reason why the, the needle hasn't moved, as you put it, is because there's a lot of these companies that I think feel like they don't want to pay for something like that. They don't feel like they're big enough to, to have that type of plan. They don't want the burden of running that plan. [18:57] Chad: Right. [18:57] JD: And, and that's been our. [18:59] Daniella Moiseyev: Absolutely. But that's the, the solution that was put in place in 2019, that launched in 2020. The pooled employer plan creates this new fiduciary type that's supposed to take a lot of the risk from the small employer. And then the tax credits help offset the cost. And if security doubles those credits, you're lucky. [19:18] Chad: That doesn't count. [19:19] Daniella Moiseyev: But, but the point is, you know, right now, as it exists today, the retirement plan is sold, not bought. Very few small business owners seek out an advisor and say, I want to start a plan. Right. They might have an advisor. They might come across a, talk them into doing the right thing for their employees. With the mandates coming online, whether there's a federal mandate or a state level one, I don't care. I don't know. I don't would not put an over under on what's going to happen in Congress. But the point is, but we should, we, we will have a private market solution when it's no longer, you know, sold but bought. When the advisor is, I mean the small business owner is looking. They have. [19:55] JD: Because they're forced to. [19:57] Daniella Moiseyev: Right? [19:57] JD: Because they're forced to. [19:58] Daniella Moiseyev: And I think for those employers who are not paternalistic, who are doing it because they must. Right. A solution that takes as much of the decision making and fiduciary risk off the table as possible is the right solution for that kind of business. [20:11] JD: I, I might argue that and I didn't come here to get in a debate with you. [20:16] Chad: That's what our show is. [20:16] JD: My problem with that is that if you're going to add those services. So here's the thing. So I call those three 16 fiduciary services and do you use 316 fiduciary services with your startup plans when you sell them? Why do you not do that? [20:31] Chad: Cost. [20:31] JD: Because it's expensive. Because it's an extra job. Right. An extra thing to do. Do you do 338 fiduciary services with your startup plans Sometimes because it's cheaper or something? I think a lot of this support that you're talking about, taking everything off of their plate is a, is a premier level thing. [20:51] Daniella Moiseyev: Not if you can put into market a scaled solution. And that's what some of these digital disruptors are going to be doing. Right. And I think that's what the real change is. You can do it in a scaled way. You can do it a cost efficient way that brings a low cost solution to market and doesn't have all the embedded costs that some of the traditional providers have. [21:09] Chad: On maybe a softer note with that, and you've said this a number of times, JD Is it right that we're going to go out to that small market space and tell businesses that have chosen not to put in a plan for all these years now you have to. And now you're going to put in something that you really have no ownership in. [21:27] JD: You don't have to do anything. [21:28] Chad: You don't have to do anything. [21:28] JD: We're going to take all that, which isn't really. [21:30] Chad: Don't even worry about talking to your employees about this like we'll take all that on. I think that we need to create more responsibility for those folks so that they feel some ownership in what they're doing for their employees and can have some skin in this game. [21:43] JD: I also haven't seen. [21:43] Chad: I think we're preaching the wrong thing. [21:45] JD: We're not talking about your future employer, we're just talking about in general. And I haven't seen proposals from pooled employer plans that are giving any type of cost savings to anyone, either, have I not? Not in a real apples to apples because they're providing more service. Can we say something honestly? Is a pooled employer plan providing more services or less services than a standalone plan? [22:07] Daniella Moiseyev: It depends on what kind of service. Right. In theory, when you're complicated plan design, then absolutely not. But that's not the right solution for many small businesses. [22:16] JD: Complicated plan design is not unique to a pooled employer plan or a standalone plan. We can do a safe harbor match in, in the, in a, in a standalone plan. Right. We can do simple eligibility in a standalone, we can reduce costs in a standalone plan and we do that. I also have an issue with this economy as a scale thing. This whole point of like, oh, we're going to bring together $501 million or in your case it's startups and stuff and therefore we're going to get them higher, better pricing because we're pulling them all together. Record keepers have been bringing on new clients and gathering assets for decades. They already work on an economies of scale type of solution and it's going to be no different from them to service those 500 plans individually versus an a pooled employer plan. [23:06] Chad: Just it will be for Smart because it's so heavy tech base. [23:10] Daniella Moiseyev: I mean, I think that the industry is ripe for some disruption and I certainly by no means is SMART the only one that's thinking about this. Right. But I think that if you look at some of the more established providers, those technologies were built on mainframes in the 70s. There's a lot of cost in embedded in that. [23:28] JD: Right. [23:28] Daniella Moiseyev: So there's some opportunity I think to really do it differently. [23:31] JD: That's the Aaron Shum Vestwell story too. Right? Right. We've built this faster, more maneuverable boat versus your kind of big, slow moving, old school record keeper thing. I don't know that. I don't know what that looks like underneath the hood because that's not my life. But I'd love to see more of that. [23:49] Daniella Moiseyev: And I have not looked at Vestwell in great detail, but I have some advisor friends who have worked with them and they've been very pleased. So that's anecdotal of course, but I, I wonder, you know, if you look at the, the Vest Wells, the ubiquities, the guideline, you know, and talk to the advisors that are working with them compared to some of the more traditional providers. See what that experience looks like. [24:10] JD: I always trip that ubiquity gets put into that. Ubiquity was started like 15 years ago. They're a normal record keeper. They happen to call themselves the online 401k at the time and now they're ubiquity. They're no different than. [24:23] Chad: Well, they were the ones that just ink the deal with principal. Right. [24:26] JD: They're no different than any normal TPA that has their own record keeping. They didn't do any disruption. Thank you. [24:33] Chad: Thank you. Jay. Let's. I know you want to move on. [24:35] JD: Talk about the coverage gap a little more though. Like how. [24:37] Chad: That's what I was just going to say. We, we need to keep in mind that everything that we are striving toward as an industry is going down the path that we should be going down. We need to bridge the gap. For businesses that don't give access to a plan to their employees. You said it was it 15 times more likely to participate. [24:53] Daniella Moiseyev: 12 times more likely. Someone with an income of between 30 and $50,000 a year, which is your fairly low income employee. 12 times more likely. The likelihood of them opening an IRA is like virtually zero. [25:06] Chad: And that's what we need to keep in mind as we continue to evolve and create new solutions. [25:12] JD: It's so bad, the federal mandate. And I know, I know we said way better. I know we've said this over and over again. The show's hard to do when Hackler's laughing in the background. [25:23] Chad: Does anyone else here? [25:25] JD: I like his laugh a lot. [25:26] Chad: Zach Galifianakis laugh when he laugh. [25:30] JD: He's got that. The, the federal mandate will do. It will move that needle massively. [25:39] Daniella Moiseyev: Yes, it will. [25:40] JD: We've seen the state mandate. [25:42] Daniella Moiseyev: Yeah. [25:42] JD: In California and by the way, we're just getting warmed up in California because I really feel like it's the next year. [25:47] Chad: Yeah, we go right. [25:49] JD: Five or more employees by July 31st of next year. [25:54] Chad: So many employers who are so far behind on that that it's gonna be [25:58] JD: a last minute scramble for two years. I think [26:02] Daniella Moiseyev: mandates in some form of adoption across many, many states. So if the federal government doesn't move on it, the states are moving on it. So the mandates are here and they're coming. They're part of our future. I don't think they're necessarily a bad thing. I think that as long as a private market solution is Offered alongside. I think that that's a really good option. [26:20] JD: In my research of the Fred piece versus the national association of Plan Advisors I was reminded and it was brought to my attention that you know, even like these state run plans like in California, without the help of the American Retirement association and all they do there, we might not have had those private options included in that. So they are going to bat for us. And I didn't get to finish that topic but I do think that our national association and our advisor groups and our third party administrator groups and everyone need to work together cohesively. And I am a fan of the American Retail Retirement and I think we [26:56] Chad: have been and I think they are [26:58] JD: and I can go on both sides of this. I'm also a fan of Fred for kind of trying to push the envelope, think outside the box. [27:04] Chad: You're tiptoeing right now. [27:06] JD: I gotta go both sides. It's good. So the mandates will solve it, bro. Yeah, we just need the mandates. [27:12] Chad: We're seeing it. Employer plan. [27:15] Daniella Moiseyev: The numbers that were thrown around, I actually have them. It's what, 62 million new retirement savers. 7 trillion in new assets. [27:24] JD: 7 trillion over the next 10 years. [27:26] Daniella Moiseyev: That is just really, really good and even. And I know you guys have had on your show multiple comments about, you know, crappy plans, this, that, the other. But a crappy plan is still better than no plan at all. And frankly, you know, I have issues [27:40] Chad: with, you know, a three with that one. [27:42] JD: I love that I'm with you. I'm Team Danielle on this. [27:44] Daniella Moiseyev: Think about this, right? [27:45] JD: Crappy plan is better than A moderate [27:48] Chad: income is not going to tell Enron folks that that's the case. Tell wahoo Enron folks that that's the truth. [27:54] Daniella Moiseyev: I'm not. But I mean these are not going to be public companies. These are going to be close. [27:58] Chad: A crappy plan that isn't like stealing and doing wrong. It's a little better. I can go down there. [28:06] Daniella Moiseyev: Not great plan design is still better and still going to have more people savings. [28:09] Chad: You're failing your average plan, but it's still there. You can still save. Average deferral. [28:18] Daniella Moiseyev: Have you guys ever looked into the call centers? So when I worked at a large provider, my office, I had the call center folks kind of right outside my office. And I could hear some of the micro tragedies. People calling in to take a $300 loan because they needed tires for their car. I mean, you know, we accept, we [28:37] JD: won't show up to the office. [28:39] Daniella Moiseyev: Right. [28:40] JD: To get their distribution Check. [28:43] Daniella Moiseyev: And I think, you know, we travel in certain circles and we interact with, you know, advisors and other people in the industry and we interact with the owner of the business. But you know, the great swath of the American population is does no savings, nothing. And again, I still, I just, I will continue to say it. A crappy plan is better than no plan at all because at least they can get them to save. [29:02] JD: Aaron wanted us to define crappy plan. And so to, to Chad's point, I think what Daniella means is when you have a plan there, it's maybe not the best. [29:10] Daniella Moiseyev: Exactly. [29:11] JD: Maybe, maybe only 20% are participating. Maybe it fails. It's eight, it's, it's testing. [29:17] Chad: You got it. [29:18] JD: I would say a crappy plan is not to find us 800 basis points, steals all the money from the plan and leaves to wherever. [29:27] Chad: And I think one would argue access to a plan, which is, which is what I had said earlier, I think is the crucial step for us. Right. And so is it fair to say for you guys that have been deep in this in California that the state run plan is better than no plan at all? I would say so. I think it's a fair statement, 100%. [29:45] JD: I'm excited to see the state run plan fail in some areas because there still is responsibility on the employer to do a lot of things. And this could happen on a national level too. If this happens, they're going to make mistakes and things are going to get messed up and then they're going to decide we need someone to help us do this the right way. Right. Well, incubator. [30:07] Chad: Remember I was doing a bunch of education speaking engagements on Cal Savers. Yeah. [30:12] JD: You were like partnering with them. [30:13] Chad: I did. Well, I spent time with them, learned. I sat in on their education meetings for new businesses that were coming on how they were onboarding. [30:20] JD: Get her on the show. That chick that you. Katie. [30:23] Chad: Yeah, probably should do that. [30:25] Daniella Moiseyev: You guys should have on is Lisa Messina. [30:27] JD: We found Lisa on Fabulous. [30:30] Chad: But the point being they made it very clear, JD on the screen in the education meeting with these business owners that they are not a fiduciary in the CalSavers plan. [30:39] JD: Sure. [30:39] Chad: And I was like, okay, I get it. Maybe by our legal definition under arrest. So you're not a fiduciary. Damn. But what's the first thing that's going to happen that's going to create litigation? It's going to be when someone fails to put in contributions or withholds the wrong amount and who do they think is going to be Held responsible for that. It's going to be the business. [31:01] JD: And you're. [31:01] Daniella Moiseyev: Yeah. [31:02] JD: And so you're saying because it's not under those rules that you just screwed [31:08] Chad: up, [31:10] JD: that in a sense the employer wouldn't have responsibility. But that's not true because there's still an employer. [31:16] Chad: They're not a fiduciary. They have responsibility. [31:18] JD: I have a responsibility to get you your paycheck. I have a responsibility to not grab you in the butt. Not grab you in the butt. So I have liability. If I don't get your Cal Savers deposit in, regardless of fiduciary definition. I have a. I have a problem and I have an issue. [31:36] Chad: I know it. [31:37] JD: Same way if I sexually assault. [31:38] Chad: But that is not what they're preaching. Jd, that is not what is being [31:42] JD: signed up for that. Only if you bring it. [31:44] Chad: You were a witness to that. Were you tested? [31:47] Daniella Moiseyev: Are we gonna find like JD's John Gruden emails or something? [31:50] Chad: Oh, I've got so many of them. Yeah, Trust me, a couple more. They're all directed at me. You can't even see. [31:56] JD: All right, it's been. It's been a while since we've done this. We haven't been on the couch that long, but we're gonna do the quiz of death. [32:04] Chad: You can do that now. So if I fail, I have to go through the rest. [32:07] JD: You wanna wait till the end of the show? [32:10] Chad: We only got 30 minutes left. It's okay. [32:12] JD: No, I think the audience would like to see you suffer through the end of the show. [32:15] Daniella Moiseyev: Can I tell the hot sauce story, though? Why the response? [32:18] JD: Absolutely. But let's. Yes. I want to get down first. Thank you, Brandon. Remind everyone, because it's been a while. I mean, this used to be a thing for Chad. He's. He's done hot sauce, by the way, on a stage before. [32:33] Chad: Almost threw up on the audience and almost threw up. [32:36] JD: He's done his hand and mouse traps. He's been whipped with a wet towel, tased shot. We tore hair from his body. So it's nice to have the quiz of death back. And the way that works is I'll ask him a question. If he gets it right, we hurt him. If he doesn't, he's safe. [32:59] Chad: Wait, if I get it right, you hurt me. Can you? [33:02] JD: If you get it wrong. [33:02] Chad: We hear you. Okay, thank you. [33:04] Daniella Moiseyev: Reverse incentive. [33:05] JD: But tell us, what do we have? [33:07] Daniella Moiseyev: So this is hot sauce that I made. And for those of you that know me, I am the most not domestic person. I don't cook I don't grocery shop. I don't meal plan. That's just not my thing. My husband just wants me out of the kitchen. But I grew scotch bonnet peppers this year as a pandemic hobby. And I harvested them and I had like 200 scotch bonnet peppers. [33:28] JD: I've never heard the term scotch bonnet before. [33:30] Daniella Moiseyev: They are hot Caribbean peppers. Peppers that are 10 times hotter than habaneros. They're red ones. What the hell are we doing here? And. And I cooked this. I made it myself. I made like 12 bottles of this. I brought this for you guys. So this is very hot. [33:43] Chad: But it's also really hazmat soup. I was gonna say. What are you doing with this? You put it on, like a burrito or something. [33:48] Daniella Moiseyev: A couple of drops in, like, a big pot of, like, rice or red beans is delicious. A little bit on your chocolate. Couple of drops. Don't go crazy. [33:55] Chad: I mean, look at that Scoville rating. That [34:02] JD: sounds pretty gnarly. The last time Chad did this, he actually had to take about, like, half a shot glass of the hottest hot sauce at Buffalo Wild Wings, which. And you were hurting. I honestly did have a moment where I was like, I could be in trouble, like, liability wise. [34:19] Daniella Moiseyev: Like, this is hotter than the ghost pepper. [34:21] Chad: No, no, this is about a third of its. [34:23] Daniella Moiseyev: Okay, yes. [34:24] Chad: So it's not even the worst. Splashing the front row. So just know I'm not going here if it happens. [34:32] JD: Let's clarify the rules. Yeah, I believe this should be just like a little. A little drop. [34:37] Chad: We need a spoon on your pinky or something. [34:39] JD: Right? [34:39] Chad: Okay. [34:39] Daniella Moiseyev: Okay. [34:39] JD: Okay. [34:40] Daniella Moiseyev: Use one of those little finger things, Chad. [34:41] JD: You'd have a chance to get this right. [34:43] Chad: Okay. You got it. [34:46] Daniella Moiseyev: Really tasty, huh? It has really tasty. [34:49] Chad: Set it up for him to get it right. [34:50] JD: We haven't. I know, but I'm giving him a chance to get it right. [34:53] Daniella Moiseyev: It home. Put it on tacos. [34:54] Chad: I mean, it's. I had a chance, right? [34:56] JD: The quiz of death question. [34:58] Chad: Okay, that's really good. [35:01] JD: In what year Was Advis founded advisor 2X? Founded the host of this very conference we're at here in Nashville. [35:11] Daniella Moiseyev: Oh, I think I know the answer. [35:12] Chad: Ross is right there. You can't. He's looking fit. [35:19] JD: Practice was friend. [35:22] Chad: Then he decided to start this. It's been running. I'm gonna say 2014. And Justin had it up on his computer too. If I just cheated. Just do one of these. Hold it. And just a little boop. Yeah. [35:50] JD: Let me see. Let me see. Too much. Don't do it, Chad. I'm just going to do a napkin. [35:56] Chad: Just going to lick the little bit there. [36:00] JD: Okay. Let's let that settle. It's good. [36:03] Chad: It does taste good. I'm fine right now, but it's starting to go. [36:08] Daniella Moiseyev: Kiss ketchup. [36:09] Chad: There it is. Now it's on the roof of my mouth. [36:10] JD: Oh, you're turning a little p. We did this once. [36:13] Chad: Do we have a napkin making its way down into my chest a little bit. [36:16] Daniella Moiseyev: Alma, water. [36:18] JD: We did an on stage conference at the. [36:21] Chad: There goes. Let's go now. [36:23] JD: Okay. We did. We did an on stage conference with Nevin Adams and they didn't want us drinking hard alcohol, so we did. So we did hot. We did hot wings. And remember when Nevin couldn't talk, like his mouth was on [36:37] Chad: kind of like [36:38] JD: Chad, right now I'm getting there. Okay. Okay. Check this out. [36:42] Daniella Moiseyev: Wipe it off. [36:42] JD: This is another hackler napkin. That's another subject. [36:49] Chad: That's fine. [36:50] JD: It's got a snot on it. This is another subject that Daniela wanted to talk about. And I've got some context here. So my father starts a third party administration firm. 1975, I take it over many, many years, decades later, when looking at the communications that we send to our clients as an example, you fail your discrimination testing and we send you this letter. I mean, these days it's an email, but back then it's a letter. And it's got all this fancy language in it. It's referencing Internal Revenue Service code. It's talking about excise taxes and deadlines and really written like an attorney, you know. And so you read it as a client and not only are you confused, you're scared. You don't. You don't understand it. You have an issue with this? [37:42] Daniella Moiseyev: I do. [37:43] JD: And by the way, we made a lot of changes around that. Not to promote our own company here, but worked really hard. We called it Easy Speak. You're a fan of this too, on your website, actually. You're an anti fan of industry lingo. [37:57] Daniella Moiseyev: Yes. So I'm going to be blunt. We talk to small business owners and participants like they're idiots and we're the smartest things in sliced bread. [38:08] Chad: And it's because that was a selling technique for years. [38:11] Daniella Moiseyev: So I actually brought a visual aid. The provider will remain nameless. But an actual provider email that goes to a participant. [38:22] JD: Can we guess who the provider is? [38:23] Daniella Moiseyev: No. And don't say it, but it can. [38:26] JD: You see it? [38:27] Daniella Moiseyev: This is the email that goes right after they've enrolled in a plan. So this Is their first communication after the enrollment. [38:33] JD: Exciting. You're going to read this first. I like this. [38:35] Daniella Moiseyev: Dear first name, last name. You have been enrolled in plan. This is to confirm that this has been initiated for your account. If you or someone to whom you gave permission to act on your behalf authorize this transaction, there's nothing else you need to do. Please note that the transaction requested as submitted may not be processed for a variety of reasons, including, among other reasons, to submissions after an established trade cutoff or other timing restrictions. Restrictions imposed by a mutual fund, family, investment manager, custodian, or their agents, and accordingly. Accordingly is important here. Execution of this request is not guaranteed. To confirm the details of execution of your request, please log into your account. That is the participants first. [39:15] Chad: Wow, they're so excited now. [39:18] Daniella Moiseyev: So why do we insist on talking to participants in this way? And this is not. This is one egregious example. I just opened a solo K for my consulting business, and I won't say which provider, but the stuff I got, I had to read it three times. And I'm in the industry. Why are we like this? [39:31] JD: It doesn't sound like this is the case, but I want to throw this out there. Is this because of liability? Like, is this written. Is this written as a. As a cover your ass? [39:43] Chad: I would almost rather drink that without [39:45] Daniella Moiseyev: sounding like a tool. [39:46] JD: You could do just take all that, put it at the bottom. [39:49] Chad: Well, no. [39:49] JD: And. [39:50] Chad: And then just rewrite it like normal. [39:51] Daniella Moiseyev: Well, so I did rewrite this one, right? [39:53] Chad: So worse after the hot. [39:55] JD: Oh, you're going to show us your skill set. [39:59] Daniella Moiseyev: Your first name, last name. Congratulations. You are well on your way to a bright savings feature by enrolling in the plan name. As you already know, your retirement account has many benefits, such as contributions deducted from your paycheck automatically. And conveniently, if you change jobs, you can take your contributions with you. Thanks to the power of compounding, you can make money on your money. You can choose from a diverse array of investment options. You can be confident in knowing that you made a great decision. This email is to confirm that you've now enrolled in your retirement plan account. [40:36] Chad: I still didn't understand. Yeah, but Mark can't make that statement. [40:39] Daniella Moiseyev: I think our industry is, you know, careful. We. We have a lot of regulations we have to adhere to. There's a lot of lawyers at every provider who look over this stuff and then add a bunch of stupid words like accordingly and whereas. [40:51] Chad: But who writes it? Because it's not a marketing person. [40:54] Daniella Moiseyev: The lawyers and then the marketing person gets it and they get told by the lawyer that oh, you can't change that. It's got to have the whereases and [41:00] Chad: who writes all the sales material it's got to have which is accordingly attractive to a client. But the intern is not accordingly. I really don't like that word. [41:09] Daniella Moiseyev: Do you ever talk to someone and say, well Chad, accordingly. [41:16] JD: Chad's really not the best person for this conversation. [41:19] Daniella Moiseyev: Our industry is people, incredibly bright, well educated people who want to do the right thing. And everyone that I've met in my 20 plus years in this business has been really, really smart. But don't, we don't need to sell, we don't need to shove it down people's throats that we're smarter than ours. [41:34] JD: This is kind of a stretch analogy but I was doing some research recently on, on like website design and I was looking at the. I'm now going to give a benefit to all these companies I kind of hate. [41:46] Chad: I was calling this research by the way. [41:48] JD: I was looking at like the guidelines, even the freaking what's Captain 401 now? Human interests betterment. These companies and their, and their 401k solution. And if you go to their websites, it's so simple, so much better. There's literally like eight words like affordable, easy, fast. This is like. And then you go to the, the big firms and it's littered with tax. [42:20] Chad: Someone threw up on the screen. Yeah, yeah, that's the stuff he likes. [42:22] Daniella Moiseyev: Like I said, I opened my solo K a few weeks ago for my consulting business. I literally have a file that's my solo K file that's about this high. I mean we killed an entire tree to send me stuff I couldn't even understand. And I'm in this business. So you know, I called my advisor, I'm like what the hell are they asking for here? [42:37] Chad: Like so, so the takeaway from this because obviously at this stage we're not going to change the recordkeeping community and some of these communication evolve. I'm just saying we're not. But for the people listening in we certainly can encourage the advisor community to step in and translate some of this. [42:53] Daniella Moiseyev: Yes, well, but honestly though, the providers need to understand and all, I mean I speak to all of us here, right Myself included is we can't talk this way to normal people. We have to do better. [43:05] Chad: We shouldn't but we've done it for [43:07] JD: four years because we live, breathe and sleep this and are obsessed with it. Do we make these same mistakes in like fiduciary review meetings with Our own words like absolutely. Because it's second nature to us to talk about a fiduciary process or a methodology or qualitative and quantitative. [43:31] Chad: Sometimes I catch myself even using the term deferral and realize that the person I'm speaking to has no idea. [43:36] JD: Plan sponsors calling people. Plan sponsor call employer. [43:41] Daniella Moiseyev: Tiny trick. My husband is a very brilliant, wonderful, smart man. He's got a master's degree in education. He's a teacher. He's my touchdown. Anything I write for, any company that I'm working with or a consulting client, I come, I would call them in and I'm like, I'm going to read something to you. And if he says, huh, he probably right. So, I mean, all of us have either spouses or friends who are not in the industry. Use them, read your stuff to them, practice your pitch. If you're saying deferral, they're going to be. What's the default? [44:09] Chad: To go back to the question you asked a little bit ago. The reason this exists is because especially in our community, the third party administrator community, we sold on complexity for years. [44:18] Daniella Moiseyev: Yeah. [44:18] Chad: It was built on understanding the tax code and talking with jargon and making [44:23] JD: sure to be hard. [44:24] Chad: Yeah. And that's what, that's what sold. Then people went, I need, I need to hire that person. [44:29] JD: More complicated. It was the more you can charge. Right. [44:31] Chad: It's not the way it should be. No. [44:33] Daniella Moiseyev: And it's, it's wrong. I mean, you can be the smartest person in the room and many of you are when you go to these meetings. [44:38] JD: Thank you. [44:38] Daniella Moiseyev: But you don't need to make sure that everyone else in that room knows you're the smartest person in the room. That's just obnoxious. [44:44] JD: Yeah. Right. [44:45] Chad: Who is it? Was it you last night, J.D. that said the comedian is being paid to come into large corporate companies and do likable training for their sales team? [44:56] JD: No. [44:56] Chad: Someone had said that last night. [44:58] JD: The last sign he's been, how was you, Mark? [45:01] Chad: Mark said it. [45:02] JD: I have found though that I've been sitting in on a lot of fiduciary review meetings with our advisors and some of our larger clients. And I have, I have evolved. [45:10] Chad: How about we change the name of those meetings? [45:12] JD: Yes. [45:13] Daniella Moiseyev: Yeah. [45:13] JD: I've evolved into a weird role. Whereas the advisors doing the fund review. And I've found now that my job is to insert jokes from time to time and make everyone laugh. [45:24] Daniella Moiseyev: Right. Yeah. [45:25] JD: I play Mark in the, the, in the. Well, they call the fiduciary review meetings. [45:28] Daniella Moiseyev: You know, I and I'm not. I've been slagging on the providers and the record keepers, but frankly, the DC are just as bad. That's my background. I spent, you know, 10 years and 12 years in DCIO land, [45:42] Chad: and I am not taking one for you. One for you. Oh, Mark, you. [45:46] JD: The malort is so bad. If you haven't had it so bad. [45:49] Daniella Moiseyev: What is that stuff? Like 299 a bottle? [45:52] JD: It's a Chicago. Chicago thing. We learned about it when we were doing a show in Chicago. We decided to take it with us now because it's so gross. [45:59] Daniella Moiseyev: That is the nastiest thing I think I've ever had. [46:00] Chad: Tomorrow has a beer for you, Mark. What? So gross. [46:05] Daniella Moiseyev: And it just keeps coming. [46:07] JD: To wrap that subject. Oh, look at that. To wrap that subject. Yeah, of course I can. [46:12] Chad: That's coming out of. Not my pocket. Oh, but you can put it in your pocket and then pull it out. Okay, hold on. [46:17] Daniella Moiseyev: It's a little wait for dramatic effect. [46:19] Chad: Hold on, Wait. [46:21] JD: Sorry. Okay. [46:22] Chad: Okay, Go on. No. [46:23] JD: Go, please. [46:23] Chad: No, go on. Pocket Beer. Brought to you by Pocket Beer. I. Oh, wait, hold on. [46:35] JD: Sorry. In all jokes, I think the surfer in me at one of those. You're gonna call fiduciary meetings. Just lunch now or meeting. [46:45] Chad: Yeah, a happy hour. [46:47] JD: Does try to talk in, like, surfer terms. So. And I think that's. I can get away with that because of, you know, this. And I do think that the. The employers, the plan sponsors, the decision makers really appreciate me breaking it down and kind of just like dummy language instead of talking like a fancy financial advisor in a suit. And so I think that's the takeaway, is if you're out there, you need to think about how you do that and could you do it in a more friendly way where people can take [47:22] Chad: away is what we should all just be a bunch of dummies. [47:24] JD: Yeah. Yeah. [47:25] Chad: All right. Find a better way to communicate. You guys are not catching up. Remember the Invasco study, the new word order? You guys all know how much I loved that where they said what words actually resonate with people? [47:38] Daniella Moiseyev: Like, that's a nice job of that. [47:40] Chad: That. [47:40] Daniella Moiseyev: Yeah. [47:41] JD: Invesco plug. They make the best Pro V ones. I mean. [47:45] Chad: Yeah, I lose them so fast. So good at that. [47:49] JD: Justin. [47:50] Chad: Yes, sir. [47:50] JD: Would you like to intro or guess? [47:51] Chad: No, outro. [47:53] JD: Outro or guess. Hey, no, no new. [47:54] Chad: New Justin thing. You have to now because you knew intro. You got to give the highlights from the show. So now go. [47:59] JD: Three. [48:00] Chad: Three highlights. [48:00] JD: I like it. Chad Snuggs. [48:03] Chad: Justin Version one one. What'd you say, Meb? Forgetting the intro. Shame on you. [48:08] JD: That was a nugget. [48:08] Chad: That's a nugget. Your pocket beer. That doesn't count. And Chad's hot sauce or Danielle's hot sauce. Chad. That's a. Wow. [48:15] JD: All the valuable content we brought out [48:16] Chad: of that, you took those three things away. [48:18] Daniella Moiseyev: Well, he was taking his chat bar up. We don't need to sound smart. [48:21] Chad: I sure as hell wasn't gonna end. [48:22] JD: Justin, can you give us. [48:24] Chad: Oh, you're welcome. You were so close. I just made it through a whole episode. [48:29] Daniella Moiseyev: I think we should drink more for forgetting my intro to too. I mean, like maybe that whole glass. [48:33] Chad: Hey, can you come back tomorrow? Hey, one. One drop of hot sauce and shoot the whole thing. [48:38] Daniella Moiseyev: Oh, no. Okay, that's just me. [48:40] JD: Banter, banter. We'll wait a second for chapter champion Chad. Honestly, I did a thing with Brad Aarons from Intellisense today. We tried to talk about the monetization of the participant. [48:57] Chad: You guys lost control of that. That, that, by the way. Okay, can I give a little review of that? As a person sitting down, If I didn't know who you were, who Brad was, when I turned around and I saw people standing and lying in the back, I'm like, I can guarantee you no other sessions had that effect. So you guys pulled in. Will did. Will, yeah, definitely did. There's no chance you weren't at the same time. Yeah, you were the other two. But questions is fine. Like, hey, you should have, like, had a little more of an agenda. Or like, set the tone. Like, hey, we'll open it up for quit. [49:35] JD: And you just. [49:36] Chad: You just let it so take over. Like, it was his presentation, man. Your comment back. You can read it in his next book. [49:43] JD: That was good. [49:45] Chad: But that did not stop him. It was funny sitting next to him. [49:51] JD: First of all, it wasn't just it, so. [49:53] Chad: Okay, but are you asking for a Justin room rating of your intro? Like 1 to 10? Do you want us to rate you 1 to 10? [49:59] JD: No, I want to know what you guys thought about. [50:00] Chad: I know. Rate one to ten. Justin's first. What are we talking about? Yeah, jd, to answer your question, it was a good session. [50:08] JD: You know what? [50:09] Chad: You and I have had that conversation so many times, though. I was looking. I was looking for something more. And I felt like he was. He was. Brad was holding it in. Like he didn't quite. [50:21] JD: Details to it that I haven't talked about before. [50:24] Chad: I will say, though, I do wish you, like, as a person Sitting there. You had one thing up on the screen the whole time, Just one. [50:33] JD: Didn't have any slides. [50:34] Chad: You could have at least changed it to like a picture. Keep me entertained. Yeah, it's a road. [50:39] JD: The whole. [50:40] Chad: He wrote. He drew that instead of taking a picture. He wrote it all in the app. [50:44] Daniella Moiseyev: You can just download it. [50:45] JD: I don't even know what you guys are talking about. [50:46] Chad: You know your graphic that was on the screen. Yes, it was. He just wrote that on a notepad, like verbatim. [50:52] Daniella Moiseyev: Well, why do people do that? It's in the app. You can just download it. [50:56] Chad: But it was a good session. [50:58] Daniella Moiseyev: It was. [50:58] JD: I think he's in a unique position with IntelliSense and they're kind of all in commitment to this convergence. To see him apply like a monetary value to the participant, which, by the way, he had done long before, before we were going to have this presentation, is really, really interesting. [51:14] Chad: That was super insightful. [51:15] JD: And I think it opens up your eyes to how to run a business, how to potentially make it more profitable or more successful by offering additional channels of business, but by also doing more for people. [51:29] Chad: Well, and for years we've kind of preached to advisors that if you get into the 401k space when you have not already been in it, this is another line of revenue. You're monetizing your client. He was really able to show that regardless of whether you're on the benefit side or you're on the 401k side, it's the full suite. That's where we're going, that's where everybody should be going. And that will allow us a great deal of flexibility as an industry if we can create better income, better revenue from each participant. [51:58] Daniella Moiseyev: And why do we talk about selling ancillary businesses if it's a terrible thing? Right. You can wear the white bag, you can do the right thing thing for the participants. Right. I mean, if it's a moderate income person, you know, they're not going to get the time of day for a traditional wealth management advisor. But they need insurance, they need life insurance, they need debt management, they need various things. If you're selling the right things, you know, you deserve to be paid to do that. And selling is not a bad thing as long as you're motivated by doing the right. [52:27] Chad: So that's where I had. I said the exact same statement two months or three months ago to jd and he immediately responded back, which was, right, that's if people are selling the right things. [52:37] Daniella Moiseyev: Well, of course, but are there bad actors in any profession. [52:40] Chad: The question is, are we going to try to leverage data so much that we don't actually know what the participant wants? We just think we know we talked [52:46] JD: about this a little bit last week. I think we're even more worried that we'll influence and convince participants to buy [52:53] Chad: things they, that they may not need [52:55] JD: just through pretty colors and pretty, pretty buttons to click on and tell them things that are vague and well, welcome [53:00] Daniella Moiseyev: to the world of social media. I mean that's what Facebook does. [53:03] JD: That's what everyone, that is the world. [53:05] Chad: You do have to be a smart consumer. [53:08] JD: Yeah, no, I, I, I like hearing from him. What he opened my eyes to this concept, this bright plan. [53:17] Daniella Moiseyev: Yeah, I've never heard of them before. [53:18] JD: I hope I'm getting that name right. Run by this dude from Cisco. And I think if you haven't seen out there, this is another, here goes my conspiracy hat thing again. Okay. There are third party independent companies now being built to offer financial planning and or wellness to plan sponsors and their participants that have nothing to do with you as an advisor, nothing to do with the record keeper. And they've got tons of money behind them, they're well funded and they're going to be knocking on the doors of what I consider to be your clients, offering them this service. Maybe some of you out there feel like, okay, so what, I don't offer wellness, fine, they can have something like that. Others of you, I think would be pretty pissed off to think that someone could literally solicit your client for something so close to home for what you offer. [54:08] Chad: Well, that's the, it's close to home, right? It's something that we believe the community should be offering and if you're not offering it, you need to, and if you're not going to, then yeah, it's going to be slow. Solicited from an outside company or your [54:19] JD: record keeper seems to be a big, big topic around here. So I know you guys have heard it over and over and over again, but this convergence thing is real. Big money's going into it. Companies are working very hard at different types. There's all kinds of different variations on this convergence on what they're going to do and how they're going to do it. But here from Nashville, I can tell you it's happening, it's legit. And so you should be thinking about it and coming up with some type of strategic plans. Justin. [54:50] Chad: Yes, sir. [54:51] JD: Chat bar champion. How's it been going in there? [54:56] Chad: You know, we got, we got a couple of the usuals. We Got Webby. We got Crystal. We got. So we're giving the win in there. Who's talking? Who's talking Crap? [55:05] JD: Justin. [55:06] Chad: Yes, sir. [55:06] JD: Because you did such a phenomenal. You get to vote for chat bar champion. All the pressure all on you. Who's it gonna be? [55:18] Chad: Does Hackler get double points? [55:20] JD: Actually, there's a few minutes. Anyone in the chat bar, you can last minute tell Justin how shiny his head is or how much you like him, and he'll vote for you. [55:30] Daniella Moiseyev: Oh, I think I am changing my opinion. You are going to be my favorite retireholic. Johnson mirror. [55:36] Chad: Everybody's okay. I was never really everybody's favorite retireholic. [55:40] Daniella Moiseyev: I don't know. I mean, not true. [55:42] JD: Everyone rate Justin on a 0 to [55:44] Chad: 10 on his saying Justin's best for us. We got DK saying, Justin, have you lost? I'm wearing rest. That's just what they're saying. He's got white shoes. [55:56] JD: Can you hurry up? [55:57] Chad: Because she was the first one in. I'm going. Crystal Benson. [56:01] JD: Nice. [56:03] Chad: Congratulations, Crystal. [56:04] Daniella Moiseyev: Huh? [56:05] JD: Is that her first win? [56:06] Daniella Moiseyev: No, she's won before. [56:06] Chad: I think she's won. [56:07] JD: I think she's had one. [56:08] Chad: Crystal. [56:10] JD: Crystal. In the chat bar. [56:11] Chad: Let us know. [56:13] JD: First time. Let us know what chasing the champs you would like. And. And then if you don't, this sounds creepy, but DM me your address and we will get that. We'll literally do that today before we leave here. Daniela, thank you so much for joining us. Congrats here on the couch. [56:37] Daniella Moiseyev: Thank you. [56:37] JD: I'm sorry that we disrespected you with a horrible intro from Justin. [56:41] Chad: And just know we're back by tomorrow just for a brief moment so I can do the intro. That's fine. When we finish a show, the guest always has to finish. [56:55] Daniella Moiseyev: No, that's not happening. That is not happening. [56:57] JD: Rules. [56:58] Chad: Can I try the hot sauce? Got to do it. [57:00] JD: Hot sauce. Bring it in. Changing the retirement plan industry. One beer. [57:06] Chad: Oh, God. [57:07] JD: We're smearing off one beer at a time. Thanks for hanging out. Appreciate it. Wealth at work. Thanks for having us here. Nashville 2021. Peace out. [57:16] Daniella Moiseyev: Peace.