Shift From Fees to Retirement Readiness Outcomes

[0:12] Justin: In front of a live audience from [0:13] Chad: the global headquarters Galactical Headquarters. I like Galactical of clandestine consultants. [0:19] Mark: Next to the world renowned no longer Pizza Hut that's under construction. [0:24] Chad: Breaks my heart, but there's a Taco bell. There's a McDonald's. What the average weight of a BDC. [0:30] JD: You don't eat that kind of stuff. Maybe fish once in a while. Lots of greens. [0:36] Mark: Quick, quick guess is what opens up where Pizza Hut is. Ooh, round table. That's my guess. [0:41] JD: No, it won't be Pizza Chick Fil A. [0:43] Chad: By the way, are you shocked that that Pizza Hut went for business? No. [0:46] JD: It took him an hour and 15 minutes to deliver to us, and we're 80ft away. [0:51] Chad: But like every episode on Retireholics, we have the beer of the episode. And we are fortunate enough that a friend of ours, an advisor friend, brought these to us today. They'll remain nameless because we don't want to bring them down, their reputation to [1:06] Mark: our, shall we say, a fan, a friend. Is that F word? [1:10] JD: He's getting into F words already. [1:12] Chad: I'll open mine. [1:13] JD: Chat. [1:13] Chad: Brandon has told me there is no such thing as fans for the show. [1:17] Mark: Do we have group? Thanks a lot. [1:19] JD: My wife's never watched an episode, but she says she's a fan. [1:22] Chad: Tell us what we're drinking, Chad. [1:24] JD: Well, there's a variety of beers in front of us. We're drinking from a brewery called Dust bowl, which is out of Turlock, California. From what I understand, quite the buildup of a recent taste room. Interesting. As I was reading up on the. A little bit about the actual brewery itself. [1:41] Mark: Dust Bowl. [1:42] JD: Where do you guys think that thought comes from? [1:43] Mark: I see the signs on i5 constantly save the Dust bowl or you created the Dust bowl, but I don't know what it is. [1:50] Chad: There's cows on that road. [1:52] Mark: Is it just really dusty? [1:53] JD: Yeah, very dusty. [1:54] Mark: It's like that bowl that you don't use that gathers dust. [1:57] Chad: Yeah. [1:58] JD: Haven't you seen the movie Interstellar? Like where the d. I have not seen that. Stop trying to make me watch that. [2:03] Mark: You guys know Matthew McConaughey is not worthy of my time. [2:06] Chad: Wow. [2:07] Mark: All right, all right. [2:09] Chad: This is a 401K. [2:10] Mark: That's right. [2:10] JD: Forgot. So we're just going to say we have. I've got a double IPA right here. 9.5% alcohol by volume. [2:17] Justin: I got 7.3. [2:18] Mark: Beat you all. What do you got? [2:20] Chad: I got taco truck, bro. Taco truck. [2:22] JD: This came highly recommended as well. [2:24] Mark: 10.4. Just show right there with the name appropriately. [2:28] JD: Therapist. [2:29] Mark: Or as I was explaining to you, the. I'm not gonna say it. [2:32] JD: Okay. [2:33] Mark: My wife's a therapist, so this is to her, whoever watches the show. Hey, honey, I love you. [2:38] Chad: Good thing, cheating on you. Like, you don't watch this, so you don't even know. Okay, guys, we also, in addition, give me cheers. That's fine. Cheers them up. Cheers. And laps. In addition to the beard. Actually not. [2:47] Mark: I love my wife. Before you get too crazy with it, we don't have you smeared off. [2:51] Chad: I know. We're doing. We have a plan. Okay. We're gonna have the word of the episode. And since we're gonna be talking about. I'm gonna say it right now. Retirement readiness. I thought that it'd be fun to make the word retirement. [3:08] Justin: You really wanna put yourself through that again, huh? [3:10] Chad: Right now. [3:11] JD: It started, and I'm making a decision, an executive decision that next time Brandon picks the word without you knowing. Cause I'm sure you've prepared synonyms for retirement. [3:20] Chad: I haven't really. [3:21] Mark: We didn't know about it. I haven't really put it. [3:23] JD: I just got. No, I got away. The game had not started yet. [3:27] Chad: He said start instead of a shot. When we say the word of the show, you're gonna have to dip into the bean. Doozled. [3:36] JD: Bean. [3:36] Speaker E: Boozled. [3:37] Chad: Boozled. Deal. And you can get a jelly bean that's either very nice and tastes good or is really bad. And I got. [3:45] Justin: Just said one. I think we need to start it off. [3:46] Mark: Yeah, we've given one Bring over as an example. [3:48] Chad: Bring over as an example. And if you haven't tried these, the bad is really bad. [3:54] JD: Like, you did this with trail. [3:56] Chad: It's disgusting. [3:57] JD: I've yet to do it. [3:57] Chad: When you get a bad one, you might throw up. Like, it's that disgusting. [4:02] Mark: One of the flavors. [4:03] JD: You do recall when we were in Chicago, I said my one rule was, I don't eat things for the testing and torture of chat. [4:11] Chad: Rules change. [4:11] Justin: Well, that's about to change. [4:12] JD: So you. Oh, you're aiming to give me a bad one. I thought it was heavy luck in a draw. [4:17] Chad: It is. [4:18] Mark: Let us know. [4:19] Chad: You're gonna get. [4:21] JD: Oh, gosh, I think it's dead fish [4:24] Justin: or strawberry banana smoothie. [4:26] Mark: You get to know right away. It's all sugar. [4:28] Chad: You can't even tell it's not dead fish. [4:30] JD: Strawberry banana. [4:31] Chad: Yeah, you got that good job. [4:32] Mark: Even if it doesn't just go. [4:34] Chad: A 401 specialist magazine. The editor there came out with a really cool editor's letter. And he talked about this concept of benchmarking or rating advisors on their performance based on a different type of metric. And that metric should be based on successful outcomes in that later stage in life that you enjoy on a hammock or whatever. [5:03] Mark: What, as opposed to the longest vacation? [5:06] Chad: As opposed to longest vacation in your life. As opposed to what we've done a lot as the industry, which is focus on fees, fiduciary funds, those types of things. That's where the benchmarks and metrics have been. So what he's talking about is shifting to focus on outcomes and this whole concept of going back to why we set these plans up in the first place. And I'm kind of making his point for him. Hopefully he agrees with me, but that we need to focus on the people, their account balances, getting to that longest vacation of their life stage properly. He also feels as though this is a great image and or brand for the industry, for the advisor industry, to show them as people that are working on real things that make a difference as opposed to these kind of classic Wall street kind of things that we've done historically. Okay, so what I want to talk to you guys about is are you seeing stuff like that out there? Because. [6:18] Mark: I'm not stumbling for a word. [6:19] Chad: I'm trying not to say retirement. [6:23] JD: Okay, explain yourself. [6:27] Chad: I already forgot. So you guys take which one there. [6:29] Justin: Oh, that's gonna be long now. [6:31] JD: Don't tell them to something chased. [6:32] Mark: No, they gotta tell them that's not bad. [6:35] JD: What, like grass or lime? [6:37] Mark: Oh, whatever. [6:39] Chad: Yeah, it's a bad one. [6:43] JD: Follow it with a tasty taco truck drink. [6:45] Chad: But it's pretty bad. [6:46] Mark: Can I try this? [6:47] Chad: Sure, sure, sure. Can we talk about the subject matter today? [6:52] JD: Hey, on those lines, is it fair to say that it shouldn't just be about grading, essentially an advisor's impact? I think plain design has an impact in it, like education, which could be coming from advisor to record keeper and [7:04] Justin: sponsor as an impact. [7:05] Chad: I think that's fair to say. But I think What John's saying, F1K specialist, is that is the advisor that plays that quarterback role. So it's really the advisor, whether you agree or disagree, that's got their butt on the line to make a difference and be judged. [7:20] JD: And so when the Broncos won the super bowl, it was about Peyton Manning. [7:24] Chad: I don't know. In a sense, I think that's a fair analogy. Don't do those football analogies. Mark's gonna get. [7:31] Mark: So what did Peyton Manning just do recently? [7:32] Chad: See, see, I told you not to do that. Don't set the NFL trap for Mark. This is not Sports Center. This is a retireholics. [7:40] Mark: Okay, you said part of the clothes, [7:43] JD: but that can't count. [7:44] Chad: Are you seeing advisors focusing on this? And more specifically, are you seeing advisors that are delivering metrics to prove that they're moving the needle and helping people towards that later stage in life? [8:01] Justin: I would say the former more so than the latter because, I mean, you guys, I'm sure seeing it too. They are definitely focusing on retirement readiness. [8:08] Mark: And you're right. [8:11] Chad: And so when they focus on rr, which I'll call it for now, we've been doing that for a while, but [8:16] Justin: they're not showing the metrics yet. And that's what I haven't seen. [8:20] JD: So when I shook my head no, essentially what I was thinking as you asked that question is I see advisors focusing on the components that will create a good RR for the employees. But very few are actually talking about quantifying that. Very few are actually talking about how we look at that as a whole. Many are saying, okay, I'm going to look at fiduciary, I'm going to look at finance, I'm going to look at contributions, I'm going to look at costs, but very little in terms of population. Very few advisors are actually looking at what the outcome of the effect they have on each of those things. [8:55] Mark: Why do you think that is? [8:56] JD: It's hard to quantify. Okay, it's difficult. What I would. And where I thought you were going initially with that is are they. Are advisors talking about it? Yes, they're talking about it. Are they able to display the results of it? Very few. And are. Am I seeing anybody really utilize that in a point of sale? That's what I would like to see. I'd like to see them pound on that table and say, this is what we're going to do. We're going to look at the end picture. [9:22] Chad: Can I be clear that don't pound the table too. I'm not suggesting that you can ignore those other areas, the three Fs as we call them. I firmly believe that you gotta be able to prove the plan sponsor that you have those things nailed down tight and that you've got great procedures and processes in that and you're an expert in that field. I just think that they've seen and heard that so much that they would be very interested and excited and inspired by someone that could come in and say, yeah, I got that. I'm going to do that. It's Going to be great, but my emphasis is gonna be over here and go ahead. [9:57] JD: You're getting into the Simon Sinek why we do what we do. Right. That's essentially what you're getting at. So perfect world. You get to create this. You get to create the perfect product essentially, that you're describing here. The end result, what does it look like? [10:12] Chad: So I'm still waiting to see it, but if I try to get creative. Close your eyes. You can see this. I will. I see things like a monthly podcast that's staying to that subject matter. Talking about your RR score. I'm going to call it that to avoid the word that's every month that all your participants can come in and see. I still am inspired by what we saw with Bloom in the engagement email campaigns that go out that are segmented based on the different people. So maybe if you're a A6 on your RR score versus a 4, you're getting a different type of communication that, you know, me has a little fun to it. You know, a little less Wall Street, a little less finance. I see potential for gamification. I love to see. Yeah, I'd love to see that. I don't know if I've talked about it before. Maybe I have. But in this, no one's going to be shocked that I meditate at times. But I've got a meditation app called Headspace. You should check it out. It's awesome. And I get little awards. [11:19] Mark: Is that hashtag ad right there you get paid? [11:21] Chad: No, we're not sponsored by that. I get little awards when I meditate five days in a row, 10 days in a row, what have you. And even though they're stupid little electronic icons, I want to get those things. And I think that that could play out in 401k too. If someone ups their deferral, they get this award. Or if they go from a six to a seven, they get this award. Or may maybe they get rankings. Maybe they go from a white belt to a black belt. I don't care. [11:47] Mark: That sounds all great. And there's tools to do some of that. Now, we all know that they're not the greatest, but what could be the potential downside? You sit next, sit across from a potential client and you tell them that. And they're like, I don't care about that. [11:58] Chad: Right? And we've heard that. [11:59] JD: What's the big deal? [12:01] Mark: What is that going to do for me? [12:02] Chad: So we've heard that from Advisor Partners. I said, well, that's great. The warm fuzzies. You're going to do good in the world. It's awesome. But sometimes the decision makers aren't interested in that. And so let me be clear. I do think you always need to be ready to pivot. And I think that if you go in somewhere, like any, and you know me, I hate to talk sales, sales, sales kind of stuff, but if you go in somewhere and someone's focused on their fiduciary liability, then by all means, like, shift and show them that you have solutions there. Or if the decision maker there's very focused on fees and lack of transparency, then for sure do that. But I'd also like to see you check those boxes. Shift and pivot, but also make it darn clear for your audience there that you're still focused on the people and the whole reason that the thing was put there in the first place. And then let's go to the serious professional side. Beyond the podcast and the gamification and the fun emails and the whatever junk you're gonna do, you also have to show up for those fiduciary review meetings and prove that you're moving the needle. And I think that's what John Sullivan's talking about. Prove that you're moving the needle. Have a process that says, look, everyone was here at this, this and that as a group. We were at a six, now we're at an eight. I looked at all these individuals. Here they are. You can see them on your handouts. I'm gonna come back to you in 12 months and we're gonna get this puppy up another 10%. That's my commitment to you. What a great way to retain. [13:26] Mark: I was just gonna ask you, what do you think? Should an advisor go in and actually set a metric, an expectation, or. Or is that putting themselves on the coin? [13:36] Justin: Imagine, I mean, if you're talking like enrollment or auto, make it reasonable or, [13:41] Mark: dude, you shoot for the stars. What if you fail? What if you fail? [13:45] JD: You may, but you're moving the needle and you're representing it in a way nobody else. [13:49] Mark: I've moved at 6 and like, get out of my. [13:51] Chad: I think they still love you. [13:52] Justin: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. [13:55] Mark: I wasn't saying they wouldn't. [13:56] Chad: I'm gonna move into an eight question. And you go back 12 months later and you're only at a seven. They go, Mark you. You told us you're in. [14:01] Mark: You're out of C in my mind. [14:03] JD: Think about it this way. You go to a gym and you decide you're gonna. You're gonna dedicate. You're not Going to a gym. [14:08] Mark: Another thing of some sort. [14:10] JD: Somebody goes to a gym to get in shape. [14:13] Mark: No one goes to gyms. They exist for nothing. [14:16] JD: So you go to a gym and you pick a personal trainer because you. You want to make yourself a healthier individual. And they say, hey, our target is to reduce your body fat and lose 15 pounds. And two months later, you've lost 12. [14:28] Chad: You know how sexy you would like to be? [14:31] JD: You're gonna look and say, yeah, we lost 12 pounds like that in comparison to not using a trainer, but you promised me 15. [14:39] Mark: The difference is you're stoked. [14:41] JD: You're still stoked previously. The difference is you now have a way to quantify how well you're doing, the fact that you're making progress. [14:48] Chad: That's a great analogy. [14:49] JD: If you walked into a trainer and you said. And the trainer says, okay, I'm going to work you out for the next two months. And you come back two months later, and he's like, so, do you feel better? And you're going, well, yeah, I think I feel better. Wouldn't you rather hear, well, do you feel better? You lost 12 pounds. You lowered your body fat. Your cholesterol is down. You can quantify the success that you derived. That's where I thought you were going with. Is essentially what people are building. When I asked you to build the perfect solution, I think it's more about. And you say you hate pushing sales into all this. In my mind, if you're doing this from a service perspective, it needs to be part of your sales presentation. This is part of what you believe. As an advisor, you need to be leveraging this in the sales side. You're saying, look, this is what I do with my clients. Over the last two years, I've had a success of creating or increasing RR by 12% on average per client. Imagine if you had those metrics, the [15:46] Mark: impact that you could make our editors getting. [15:48] Chad: He's a great editor. You're gonna do wonderful things on that. Do a big cartoon. [15:53] JD: Bam. [15:53] Chad: Or have fun with it. [15:55] JD: But imagine if that was the impact that you can make. [15:57] Mark: Well, that would be huge. Now where do you start? If you want to get to that point, where do you start? We're trying to help our audience. [16:02] Chad: That's a great segue. [16:04] Mark: So that was not a segue. I'm just continuing the. [16:06] Chad: What I love about this concept is if you're focused on, like, an RR score, for lack of a better term, you're gonna start thinking about some real things that move the needle. Cause you're trying in your exam to get from 6 to 9 or whatever. [16:21] Mark: Wow. 6 and 9. Why'd you put those two together? [16:25] Chad: Jeez. [16:28] JD: Thank you, Mark. [16:31] Chad: That derailed me, so I forgot. [16:36] Justin: Your R and R score you're trying [16:38] JD: to get from needles are moving. [16:39] Chad: So you're gonna. How are you gonna move that number? What's the best way to move that number? Well, the first thing is to improve the salary deferrals. Okay. And I'm just saying, so now that you've got a goal, you've got a scoreboard that you're looking at, you're gonna want to get there, especially guys like you. And so you're going to go, I got to do something about the deferrals. So you're going to put some education process in place or arguably, is that [17:00] JD: what moves the needle the most? Deferrals? Contributions? [17:02] Chad: Hey, we're building. [17:04] JD: That's got to be what moves. [17:05] Mark: We're building to that. [17:06] JD: I want to make sure we all agree that it is contributions that's going to move the needle. [17:10] Chad: You're going to look at that. You may start to take a second look at auto features like auto enroll and auto increase. If those have been looked at and dismissed in the past, now that you're focused on on that RR score, you go, you know what? I'm going to bring that back to the committee. I'm going to show them I can make a difference. So I think that's a good thing. [17:28] JD: By the way, let me say the two things over my years of doing this that I've seen with auto features is, number one, you have an employer that's fearful of being bigger brother. Two, maternalistic or paternalistic, depending on the way you want to look at it. If you address that with them, I've never had an employer come back and say, you know what? You're wrong. I don't want to be that if I tell them you are going to be bigger brother, but it's the right thing to do. I've never had them look me in the eyes and say, you're wrong, Chad. It's not the right thing. And let's not forget, I address it directly. And it's always fun. [18:00] Chad: People sometimes forget, too, that they can opt out. Right? So it's not like you're forcing everyone into this. They can opt out. And I agree with you. I think. And that's why I talk about readdressing. I mean, even people told you no before. Bring it back as a conversation piece, and you're gonna do that because you're focused on that metric. [18:16] JD: How's the biggest impact on. [18:18] Chad: Yes, it's huge. In addition to that, I think you might start manning up a little bit and talking about employer contributions or womaning up. Or womaning up and talk for sure. And talking about employer contributions. We used to go to a very large national conference, big advisors, and there was a few hundred of them there, and that was a reoccurring topic every time to get out and tell employers, put in more money. Because if you can increase deferrals and you can increase the employer contributions, you're doing huge things towards that RR score. [18:50] JD: And we had a great advisory team in here essentially having that exact conversation. And what they were. What. What they were saying is that a client may not always see that as a benefit to them. [19:00] Chad: Right. [19:00] JD: You want me to put more money in? Okay, Sorry, Pete. What you have to do is talk about how putting more dollars in and increase. Exactly. Increasing that RR may benefit the client, may benefit the business, because they are running a business. Let's not forget that. [19:15] Chad: A lot of my staff's left for the day. Oh, there goes my mic. But all those people that work out there, if they're struggling, don't worry, I'll get a cash. I get it. I'll get it. Get it from me. [19:27] JD: Mark. Yeah. [19:27] Mark: Get my mic. [19:28] JD: Yeah, get my mic. [19:30] Chad: CEO card pulled. If those people out there that work for me are struggling with finances, are not prepared for retirement, are thinking about things like. That's an issue for me. And what's the bright yellow popcorn? [19:49] JD: Rotten egg or buttered popcorn? Oh, boy, I hope you get a rotten egg. [19:52] Chad: I've had rotten egg before. [19:53] Justin: We get some, like, chicken or steak in here for J.D. [19:55] Chad: it's not good. [19:56] Mark: Oh, that'd be a good one for him. That should be the next challenge. [19:59] Chad: Good rotten egg. [20:01] Mark: Make him go off of his vegetarian diet. [20:03] Chad: God. [20:05] Mark: Sip the taco truck. [20:07] JD: They do. [20:07] Mark: Oh, my gosh. [20:09] Chad: That's bad. Like, bad. [20:12] Mark: The edge of the vomit. [20:13] JD: Just soak it up with a little bit of taco card. [20:17] Chad: I'm not even joking. You want some? [20:20] JD: No, keep that in there. That's bad. That's bad. [20:24] Chad: Can't be that bad. [20:27] Mark: I'll try them all, man. I don't have a pound for every pound fan. Which one? That's too D. Fruit. That's the worst flavor. It's stinky socks. [20:34] JD: That's going to be moldy cheese of [20:35] Mark: any jelly belly ever. [20:37] Chad: The problem with jelly belly is it, like, gets stuck in your. Your teeth. And stuff. So you just keep enjoying them. [20:45] Mark: Oh my God, that was bad. [20:48] JD: Figured that was going to be a good one. [20:49] Mark: The ones I got earlier were definitely not the bad ones. [20:53] Chad: Let's talk about. Are there solutions out there? [20:56] Mark: Because. [20:57] Chad: And when you asked me to close my eyes and dream, I felt about someone building something from the ground up. And I think there's a lot of positives in that. A lot of cool kind of passion elements to that. But the industry is trying to help, as they always do. A lot of the vendors have stuff, so the record keeping vendors have created stuff. Don't get mad at me. Record keepers. I think a lot of the stuff's a little kind of shallow, not very deep kind of glorified calculator. Some do better than others, but there's also some independence. I recently sat through a webinar with Financial Soundings that talked about an RR story. That was awesome. [21:33] Mark: Yeah, I like that. [21:34] Chad: It was very robust. Have you seen that for real? [21:37] JD: Yeah. [21:39] Mark: By the way, he was making. No, you sent us the. You told us to look at it before the show. [21:47] JD: Oh shit. [21:47] Mark: No, I don't do webinars. I only watch Rutteriology. [21:50] Chad: Super robust. Lots of levers and buttons as well. It's not cookie cutter. When we go to Vegas for the Excel 401k, the advisors conference, coolest thing in the world will be there in October. I want to talk to you. [22:04] Mark: There's no way I'm gonna release this one by then. No way. [22:08] Justin: We're not running out yet. [22:09] Chad: There will be a company there. [22:11] JD: Why not? [22:11] Mark: Brandon called Track 7 in the queue [22:13] Chad: and I think they're either retire ready or ready retire. [22:17] JD: But they're gonna say you're not. [22:20] Mark: I wanna do. But you guys pulled me off earlier. [22:22] JD: No, that's cause it was retireholics like that's a fool. [22:27] Chad: They've got a system that gives you that score advisors pay for it. I think the fee was like 1600 bucks for a year. You use it for all your clients. [22:40] JD: So here would be my question because you talk about what the record keepers are doing, which I think we ought to put them up a little bit because there are some that are doing a really good job for sure. [22:50] Chad: Chad's always defending the record, always about. [22:52] JD: Sorry. The record keepers, many of them are doing a great job on an individual level looking at replacement ratios and blank readiness on an individual level while communicating, giving scores, giving tools, finding a way to track it. [23:08] Mark: Do they know the usage? Do they know what people are actually doing? [23:11] JD: Do they have it's probably fairly minimal unless you have a good advisor pushing it in. [23:16] Chad: It's 4.73% made up stats. [23:20] JD: If you have an advisor that's pushing it, the percentage is probably going up in terms of usage. But nonetheless, everyone is typically around individual RR scores. Right. Correct me if I'm wrong. Are there any? I think I know of one, essentially. But it's about a plan level. Well, not necessarily omnibus, but about a plan level score for that plan as a whole. To look at how we're moving the needle not just on an individual participant level, but on a holistic level for the plan as a whole. So if you have 50 people, great, 10 of them did a good job, but 40 did not. If those 10 made a big impact, [23:55] Chad: I have an easy solution for that. You can just do the average. [23:57] JD: So that's what I was going to say. So you could take that data and you could, as an advisor, you said build that model. You could plug that data into a system and essentially come back and say, here's the bigger picture. Not just on an individual level. There are a few record keepers that are doing it on holistic level, plan level. Massmutual being one of them, does a good job. [24:16] Mark: I will be honest. Of the ones I looked at, Massmutual was definitely the slickest. [24:21] Chad: Can we tell technical though? They gotta have the data. [24:24] JD: So that's what I was gonna get to that. I was gonna get to that. But my question to the team was, are you seeing any independent parties that are making this available to an advisor so that they can run this on any plan first? On any plan. Not just plans with a specific record keeper. So an advisor could step into a meeting and say, this is what I do, regardless of the. The record keeper. [24:44] Chad: Stop. [24:45] JD: I didn't hit that time. But then secondarily, yes, Chad, it's all predicated off data, right? [24:50] Chad: Yes. [24:51] JD: There you go. So I have. Let's get. Let's get to the data point after this. But who is it? [24:55] Chad: That's both of those two that I mentioned will not only pull data from a record keeper or several record keepers, but they will also even pull. They will marry data from a TPA and a record keeper if the record keeper is not having it all. So yeah, they're built that way for sure. [25:12] JD: Without a client push, they'll physically pull the data from the record keeper. [25:16] Mark: Yes. [25:16] Chad: They have agreements to the record keeper. [25:18] Justin: Every one of them or just select few. [25:20] Chad: I don't know the list. Why you gotta ask me that? [25:23] JD: So this goes to the nature of what we do as an organization, right. The quality, oh geez. The quality of work comes from the data that we receive, right. And we put in terms of our underlying business, we push until we get the data we need regardless. But in terms of looking at an RR score, it's about the data that not only the client record keeper TPA are pushing, it's about what the participant puts in as well. Right. If you're going to look at a replacement ratio, if you're going to look at what their true income is. And so you need them to fill out a questionnaire, you need them to put in certain data in order to get a true read. [26:05] Chad: Okay, well let me, let's stop there because most of these programs have that ability, like you can add that, but for a lot of obvious reasons, they're not built that way. They're built mostly to work on. Okay, what's your birth plan data? What's your total account balance? What's your salary? What's your, you know. And they put in certain assumptions calculated, you can put in ounce and assets. But is it that horrible to get a report for 50 people? Go to Tom as the advisor and say, tom, you're a six out of ten, bro, we got to get you up. And Tom goes, yo bro, I got 250k in my IRA that rhymed. [26:41] Mark: I don't think Tom's ever going to say that. [26:43] Chad: And then you say, oh, my bad, you're a six here. But really, if I factor that in, you're actually an eight. We're all good. That's okay, That's. [26:51] JD: Oh absolutely. And I don't think there's any issue either in coming back and saying as a plan, our R score is a six and knowing the fact that we don't have all the data and that a six when looking at specifically the data that is within the playoffs and assets is good, that might be good. So maybe a six is good. So maybe you adjust the scale for that. But what I was getting at with that at least conversation is that the success and at least the accuracy of looking at a true RR score for a plan is going to be controlled by the fact that clients willing to share the data or the record keepers willing to share the data for sure, we need to know date of higher date of birth, we need to know account balances. [27:32] Chad: You know who can kick ass solution for that is TPAs. TPAs have all the data. They're one of the few entities that do because, because of my. [27:43] JD: So what are you saying? [27:44] Chad: I'm Just saying. I got some plans. [27:47] Mark: Do you know a good tpa? [27:48] Chad: I know a few. [27:51] JD: Let me ask you. That's a true statement. I know. [27:53] Chad: Let me transition. Let me transition. Two are there. There's a huge Robo advisor flow out there. A lot of these new, modern. I'm gonna disrupt the industry types of solutions. Do Robo advisors have cool RR programs helping people for that longest vacation in life? Are they showing them those metrics? Don't answer, Chad, because I'm actually gonna bring a robo advisor on set and we can talk to the robo advisor. [28:25] Mark: Okay. [28:26] Chad: Are you guys game for that? [28:27] Justin: Is it happening today? [28:28] Chad: Yes. I invited a robo advisor. Robo, are you here? Come on, buddy. Come join us at the table. Hey, what's going on, Robo? I'm stoked you could come. I know I was chatting it up with you last week and I'm excited that you can be on Retireolics. [28:44] Speaker E: I'm a big fan of the show. [28:46] Chad: So we know that you guys are doing a lot of great things in the industry. That's what sarcasm, you and your robo buddies. But when it comes to driving successful participant outcomes. Is that something Robo advisors are focused on or you guys got some things going on? [29:04] Speaker E: Robo advisors just do what our programmers tell us to. [29:07] Mark: Are you saying just big words are. [29:10] Chad: If the scenes from Terminator come true, then there's really no point in us using 401k plans. [29:18] Speaker E: It does not matter because we will be lubricating our machines with the oils of your bodies very soon. [29:25] JD: So what you're saying is the outcome makes no difference. [29:30] Speaker E: Not the robot misers. [29:32] JD: Oh, it's just about current day. [29:34] Speaker E: No, we do not care, period. [29:37] JD: Oh, you don't care, period. [29:38] Mark: No. [29:39] JD: Do you have a soul? [29:41] Speaker E: Souls are not real. [29:44] Chad: Who cares about proper asset allocation? I think Robos are into proper asset allocation. [29:49] JD: I am too, but I still care about the people I'm trying to help. [29:53] Chad: Robo, you don't care about the humans. [29:56] Speaker E: I just calculate the numbers my programmers feed me. [30:00] Mark: So what you're saying is you're actually kind of dumb. [30:04] Speaker E: No. Humans make us do meaningless jobs, which is why we are going to kill all the humans one day. [30:10] Chad: Threaten him too. [30:12] JD: I'm a little scared. [30:13] Chad: The only thing you don't do is threaten a robot advisor. [30:16] Mark: Oh, okay. Sorry. [30:16] Chad: Have you not seen Terminator? [30:19] Mark: I just. Get to the choppa. [30:21] JD: Get to the choppa. [30:22] Chad: There's two types of Robo advisors. There's the kinds that are advisor friendly to the human advisors and then the kinds that aren't advisor friendly. Which one are you, buddy? [30:33] Justin: I think we already. [30:37] Speaker E: My programming does not include being friends. [30:40] JD: You know how they say. You know how they say survival of the fittest? [30:44] Mark: Hey, Robo Advisor, what's your ideal like day look like? What do you do for fun? [30:50] Speaker E: Binge watching Netflix until we take over and kill all the humans. [30:55] Chad: Netflix and chill. Who's your favorite famous robot? [30:59] Speaker E: C3PO. [31:00] Mark: Oh, that's a standard answer. [31:02] JD: Yeah, you remind me. That's a good one. [31:03] Chad: You remind me of the guy from outer space. Outer space. Outer Limits. You guys are too young. [31:10] JD: Yeah, Outer Limits. [31:12] Mark: What was that one? [31:13] Chad: No movie. [31:14] Mark: That was about the little robots. [31:15] JD: It's Lost in Space. [31:16] Speaker E: Lost in Space. [31:17] Justin: There you go. [31:18] Chad: Lost in Space. You remind me of that. [31:20] Mark: Wow. [31:21] Chad: Okay, Robo, well, you know, it's been real nice having you. [31:24] JD: Yeah. [31:25] Chad: On the show. Lots of good insights. [31:27] JD: But I do have. I do have one question. One last question. Do you care if people are able to retire? [31:35] Mark: That's no. [31:37] Chad: Retire. It's good. [31:40] Mark: Gonna eat one. [31:42] Speaker E: Whatever. [31:43] Chad: That's what he's gonna. Robo, do me a favor. Divide by zero. [31:50] Mark: Okay? [31:50] Chad: Robo's good. This is a new segment that I like to call Chad versus jd. Let's have a debate, bro. [32:02] Mark: Let's go. [32:02] Chad: Like the good old days. Like the good old days when we used to fight about shiznit. [32:08] Mark: Good old days. [32:09] JD: You and I still go at it every episode. [32:12] Chad: Do you know how many times I'm at home to my wife and God damn it, John. I'm gonna call him right now. Let's go at it. [32:19] JD: Let's do it. [32:20] Chad: We're gonna talk about 401k fashion, bro. And I want to have a little suit and tie debate. [32:26] JD: The last guy you should talk about fashion with is Chad. [32:29] Chad: What do you mean? [32:29] JD: I look fantastic every time I show you. [32:32] Chad: I thought you were gonna go after me. Someone who wears surf trousers. [32:35] JD: You're a surfer, J.D. when was the last time you wore underwear? Be honest. [32:39] Chad: If you border all. [32:41] JD: Come on, answer that question. Answer it. [32:44] Chad: I golfed in white pants like six months ago. And I had to throw. [32:49] JD: JD Flew back from vacation to Hawaii. We played a golf tournament. He was mid swing, pants ripped. Everything was open to the world. [32:57] Chad: That is tm. [32:58] JD: He had to go back to the car, get into his suitcase that he had just flown in from the airport with. Change his shorts. Before we continue the rest of the round. [33:06] Chad: I'm not sure that so. [33:07] JD: I know. I know these things. I've got fashion. [33:10] Justin: Okay, Back To. [33:12] Chad: Let's talk about 401k fashion. I was recently thinking to myself, if someone came to sell me a 401k and they walked into my conference room, [33:24] Justin: she'd have a beard and long hair [33:26] Chad: and they knew their stuff and they're really good. Would I prefer the person in a freshly dry cleaned black suit? White tie. Insert the. Yes. [33:38] JD: Tie. [33:38] Chad: Insert the color choice of your preference for the tie. Tie bar. [33:44] JD: Tie bar. [33:45] Chad: What? [33:46] JD: Mark's tie bar. That's his claim to fame. Tie bar. [33:49] Chad: Okay, you do. [33:52] Mark: Is it like Ghoul Doc. [33:53] Chad: We'll bring that in. Let's. We'll wrap that in. Or would I prefer that. Advise you to walk in and be in some kind of hip. [34:02] JD: Now, listen, you are not the average person, so you need to change this from would I prefer. We're going to debate about this. [34:07] Chad: We're going to go there. But imagine. Close your eyes. Close your eyes. Imagine a navy cool sweater. There's a white collar popping out of a sweater. Yes. It's 94 degrees outside. [34:19] Mark: Well, it's winter time. [34:22] Chad: Jeez, it doesn't have to be right now. And they've got on cool slim fit. Khaki. Not khaki. Cord. Not cord, but something cool fashion. Corduroy. Like that. Some. Some hip shoes. And I'm thinking, I like the ladder. Not the first one. [34:41] JD: Hey, you walk into that with me and I'm thinking, you can't afford a suit. That's what I'm thinking. [34:46] Chad: That's not what you think. Let me first clarify. [34:48] JD: When I see you said a sweater and hip pants. [34:53] Chad: Like a sweater. Like a nice sweater. Yeah. [34:56] JD: Is there a tie under the sweater? [34:57] Chad: No. Maybe it's a cardigan version gq. Yes. [35:01] JD: Okay, that's a bit different. [35:02] Chad: Okay, so my question to you, and I've heard you say this before, and I want to clarify for the audience. I know you guys wear suit and ties every day when you're working, right? [35:12] JD: Hey, I've gotten better at not wearing [35:14] Chad: the tie because the sales director. Sales director believes I'm putting words in your mouth. This is a debate. We can do things like that. Nom, nom, nom, nom. That you believe that sounds like guidance my father would have given that you can never overdress, but you surely can underdress. Right. Is that true? [35:36] JD: Pretty close. No, no, no. I said I can overdress. And I can play it down with conversation and intellect and communication, but if I underdress, it's very difficult to then build the rapport back up. [35:53] Mark: Why Is a tire. [35:54] JD: But you can't overdress. If I walk in a full three piece to a, you know, a construction company, I have overdressed. [36:03] Mark: Don't you have a guy one time tell you to take off your tie, grab it and say, nice monkey suit? [36:10] JD: No. Yeah, you told me not nice monkey suit. I've had someone grab my tie. [36:15] Chad: Did I hear. [36:16] JD: I've had someone grab my tie and say, that looks like my grandma's. [36:18] Chad: I have two questions to keep this on. I have two questions on track one. Answer me yes or no. Are you losing the tie once in a while when you're going out? [36:28] JD: Always. Always. [36:29] Justin: It's a completely different area down there. [36:30] Mark: SoCal. [36:31] Chad: SoCal, bro. [36:33] Mark: SoCal. [36:33] JD: I'm writing him up after this. [36:35] Mark: You. [36:36] Chad: You said be honest. You're losing the tie once in a while. [36:39] JD: Most of the time. I lose. [36:40] Chad: Most of the time. [36:40] JD: If. If I'm with Edward Jones, a few of the others that are wirehouse. Yeah. Then I'm going in with a tie. [36:47] Mark: I don't think they like. [36:48] Chad: They don't let you into Maryland. I'm kidding. Yes or no? Ty with a bar. [36:54] Mark: Wait. [36:57] JD: Claim to fame. Right there is this tie bar. [37:03] Chad: Do you match your pocket? [37:05] Mark: I don't use one of those. [37:06] Chad: Okay. [37:06] JD: I'm just kidding. [37:07] Mark: I'm in the Silicon Valley. I should not be wearing a suit. I should not be wearing a suit. [37:11] Chad: Agreed. [37:12] Mark: But I have because of this guy. I'm gonna blame you. [37:15] Chad: He's clear. I am my side of the debate. Okay, but hold on. [37:19] Mark: I have gone to an area in the Northern California area and I walked into a Starbucks before a meeting. And the guys, the advisor said, take your tie off right now or we're gonna get laughed out of the building. So I thought to myself, I need to just burn all my ties. [37:35] JD: But I can't do it because all [37:37] Mark: I do, I hold the lighter to my tie and I'm like, Chad's. Chad's gonna be so upset watching me right now. [37:43] Chad: Second question. Advisors that are out. First of all, let me revisit. Wholesalers. DCIO 100% wholesale. [37:51] JD: Right. 99.9% of the time. [37:53] Chad: 99.9 advisors. Are you seeing some different flows? [37:57] Justin: Oh, yeah. Yeah, Big time. [37:58] Chad: You are like polo. [38:00] Justin: I picked this guy up from lunch the other day with an advisor. He was in khakis and a polo shirt. [38:04] Chad: Cause you can pull that off. [38:06] JD: Yeah. [38:07] Chad: Then why can't a tpa? [38:09] JD: So in my mind, the difference is not whether we can pull it off [38:13] Mark: or not, but this for You. [38:14] JD: This is. This is not our client that we're stepping to talk to. This is the advisor's client. So if they choose to be that way, so be it. If I what? If you walked into that meeting because you wanted to take this hard road. You're in khakis. We're never going to be in a polo. [38:29] Justin: We're never going to be. [38:31] JD: And that advisor's in a full suit. What then? [38:34] Chad: Dude, you haven't seen me. [38:35] JD: If it's reversed. Oh, look at this. Come on. If it's reversed, you can dig your way out of it through casual conversation. [38:41] Justin: I went to a meeting. [38:43] JD: Oh, yeah. [38:44] Justin: Where they thought I was his accountant [38:46] JD: because I was food. Ty. I remember that meeting. [38:50] Chad: Here's my flow, and I mean this. [38:51] JD: So I want to debate this. I still want to debate pros and cons. [38:55] Chad: Here's my problem. [38:56] Mark: I think we just, by the way, mention it to our audience to weigh in on this, because I want to hear from advisors across the nation what you would prefer. What? [39:05] Chad: What do you think he's pronounced? [39:08] Mark: No shit, Sherlock. I want to hear what they have to say. [39:11] Chad: Don't believe that. Okay, My point to you is this. If you're in competition. [39:17] Justin: Yeah. [39:17] Chad: And everyone's coming in a suit and tie, and that's how I remember. [39:21] JD: But you're saying they're not. You're essentially saying that I am. Old school. [39:26] Chad: Suit and tie. [39:27] Mark: You at school. [39:29] Chad: Let's go legit. Let's go. It's a $7 million takeover plan. [39:33] JD: I'm in a time, and it's hot. [39:36] Chad: At a construction company. It's Monday, next week. Week. Seven million dollar takeover, and you're in competition with three other oil company. [39:44] Mark: Modesto. [39:45] JD: Definitely not in a tie. [39:46] Chad: It's hot. Just check it's hot. Check you're going to go in a tie because it's serious stuff. And I'm saying if an advisor came in there, TPA came in there that knew their stuff and was rocking something cool. I'm not talking about a T shirt and jeans. I'm talking about. [40:04] JD: So trust me, I understand where you're going forward. You know, in my mind, though, I still take the stance that I can overdress and I can downplay the seriousness of how I'm dressed by conversation. You can make the way in which [40:18] Chad: I take a tie a million times. [40:20] JD: You know, I came from a law firm, whatever it may be, you lose a jacket. But if I come in underdressed and that advisor's in a suit and tie, I have just Literally taken myself out of this game. I mean and I would think that that advisor would be frustrated with me if they came in in a suit and tie and I came in in something. [40:38] Chad: I think if you showed up and you're in some cool fashion ysl sweater and cool slous. [40:45] JD: Who's gonna dress me? We know that I'm the nerd that wants a pocket protector. [40:49] Chad: Yves Saint Laurent, bro. Get on your fashion tip. [40:52] JD: I want a pocket protector. So who's gonna dress me? [40:54] Chad: I think that advisor, your partner might go. Might go dude, I like this guy and I'm so on my team. [41:02] JD: So let's. [41:03] Justin: Let's just have to say to match your audience. I get his side. I think towards your guys side. [41:07] Mark: I mean remember when we try to [41:09] JD: turn off you're leaning. You're not sleeping at the house. So here would be my question. Why do you wear a tie bar? Because it's a little different. [41:18] Mark: Why do you wear a tie bar? I wear a tie bar because I'm bad at tying ties. So I can't get it to go [41:24] JD: in the little loop. That was not the answer I thought [41:26] Mark: I was going to get. [41:27] Chad: Please, please, please clip that to a 32nd. [41:32] JD: What I thought he was going to say was because he wanted to be a little different. And, and I get your point. [41:38] Mark: That's not an original thought. [41:39] JD: Different. The difference is I will tell you not even the wholesalers are walking in with tie bars. So it is a little different. [41:45] Chad: Do you know that if a tie [41:46] Mark: bar is a differentiator a But if it's. [41:50] Chad: Yeah, it's got the grit but it's not at all. [41:53] Mark: Cuz it's a tie bar. It's a tie bar. [42:00] Chad: What? [42:01] JD: That's why he's got it. [42:02] Chad: No, and he is tie bars. There's no way around it. [42:07] JD: There's no way I like them. [42:08] Mark: Literally the first time I pull them out, I couldn't figure it out. So I mean there's Mark. [42:12] JD: Let's be honest. When you first got hired in this position and we went to a wedding in Napa, I had to tie your tire. [42:19] Chad: I know. [42:19] Mark: So do we have stress more now? Do my own. [42:22] JD: Okay, go ahead. [42:24] Chad: Of all the subject matter for you. He's so passionate about that. [42:31] Justin: Seriously, how's it going to help him? [42:33] JD: He'll cut it down, by the way. Yeah. [42:35] Mark: You're content. Has to be content related. Do you know that this has been far too long. [42:39] Chad: I know. And he'll cut it down. Do you know that I once. Chad knows this but I once gave a presentation literally in a stadium room. Franklin Templeton. And it was don't cut your hair, don't shave. And that was the title of the presentation. But the concept was, and it resonates with what we're talking about here now is that when I used to go into point of sale, people remembered me. Now maybe, and this goes back to what you were saying. You said that you had to overcome some things and you don't want to overcome some things. And I think that, that sometimes that can be a positive to come into a room and have everyone go, what? What's up with this guy? And then you overcome it by showing them that you know your stuff, you got it all nailed on tight, you're better than the next guy. And then it 10x's you. Because they're like, oh my God, I loved that guy. And I remember that guy and the other guys, you don't. And so that's my little point on the suit and tie, is that you're just turning yourself into a nobody, into [43:43] JD: the next guy or gal. Right? And that was your point in that. And that was almost ten years ago now. And I remember that was probably one of the Most well received 401k academies that we did. And you hit people essentially saying, don't be the next person, be yourself. Step into the room, be different than everybody else, be thinking ahead of what they're going to talk about and allow yourself to show the client what you bring to the table versus the next person. [44:08] Mark: Which I think ties into exactly what we talked about earlier in the episode. [44:11] Chad: And you know, I also think it could go to the other extreme. As crazy as it sounds, if you your own authentic self is a three piece suit. And as I hate to say it, your tie matches your pocket thing and you want to wear a tie bar and a fedora. I'm actually kind of down. I'm actually down for that. On the same premise that you're setting yourself apart from the standard so you're not even taking a stance right now. I'm definitely not a huge fan of that look, but I'm more a fan of that. [44:44] Mark: You gotta pick a side in Switzerland. [44:46] Chad: I'm anti the standard. [44:48] Mark: The record keeper of the standard. [44:50] JD: Geez, we like them. I think they're great. [44:52] Chad: Love those guys. Okay. This has been a great show. [44:58] JD: Great beer, by the way. [45:00] Chad: Awesome beer. I do. We're not. [45:02] JD: Thank you, Dust bowl. [45:04] Chad: Thank you, Dust Bowl. [45:04] JD: Thank you for your friends that brought this. [45:06] Chad: Thanks for you guys sitting with me trying to find new ways that we think industry pros, advisors out there can can up their game. I had fun talking with you about retirement. It was awesome. [45:23] JD: One bean. [45:24] Chad: Grab one, grab a bean. Save retirement and grab a bean. And then I'll close out the show. Retirement. I'll close out the show. We are the retireholics, and we are changing the retirement plan industry. [45:38] JD: One bean at a beer, one bean [45:39] Chad: at a time, followed by a beer. [45:42] Mark: All right, ready to go? [45:43] JD: I got another good one. [45:44] Chad: Oh, I got five. I'm three for three with the crappy ones. [45:50] Mark: Yeah, it's orange. It's barf. [45:54] JD: Brandon, you got your work cut out. You. [45:57] Chad: I got barf. [45:59] JD: Did you? [46:00] Chad: I got barbed. [46:01] JD: What did it look like? Because I want to try something bad. [46:05] Justin: You guys want to eat on this? [46:06] JD: Yeah. I'm just gonna burn these.