Secure 2.0 SIMPLE Conversions & Record Keeper Marketing Claims

[0:00] Chad: I just knew that if I didn't put something together, you guys would sit here and be like, we're gonna swing from the hip. Let's see how that goes. [0:06] Justin: Firing from the hip. [0:08] Chad: Firing from the hip. We'll end up talking about what our favorite cookie brands are. [0:12] Justin: So do we have an intro roll here? [0:14] Chad: What happens? [0:15] Justin: What we do. There it is. [0:33] Chad: And that does get me pumped up every time it comes on. [0:36] Justin: That's pretty good. [0:37] Chad: Gets me going. It feels pretty good. Thanks, guys, for joining us on another episode. Hey, experimental episode. That is Chad. [0:46] Mark: Last time you did this and you hosted. Remember when you dressed like jd. [0:49] Chad: Yeah. And I put on the wig and then I started to fake sing, and you guys were like, please, God, no. But that. Hey, that was my best intro ever. [0:57] Justin: It's all, I can't wait for your poem, dude. This is going to be. [0:59] Chad: When you. [1:00] Mark: When you came in without your picture yet. I thought you were for sure doing that again. [1:04] Chad: Oh, no, no. I ran upstairs to grab two beers, some tequila. I got a Smirnoff Ice. I need to drink it at some point, but. [1:14] Mark: Yeah, well, let's point out. Let's point out the obvious in the Zoom Room. That there's. [1:19] Justin: We finally got rid of the dead weight. Surprise. [1:22] Mark: J.D. carlson's no longer with Plan Design Consultants. He turned the business over to us. We took him out of retireholics. Yeah, we. [1:31] Chad: I didn't know that he left the biz. I thought he just quit retireaholics. Yeah, he found all that cocaine on [1:39] Justin: the plane this morning. [1:40] Chad: He's like, I'm out. He is flying high. What? I mean, no, he is. He is flying his son back to college right now, so everybody gets to deal with us three awesome, incredibly hairless, beautiful. Let's smart D people. [1:59] Mark: Not all of those are true to all of us, but you have some hair put. There's some overlap there. But let's be honest. The. The experiment here is just J.D. not being here. You know, I think the audience. Yeah. Every few weeks or every, whatever, third Thursday, JD tries to throw something unique and cool at everybody. And this just him not being here and saying, I trust you guys. You guys can do a show without me. And I honestly think our jobs are on the line, so we should probably not do what we've done historically, which was fail miserably at this. [2:36] Chad: I have. I have recently been. Been thinking about this whole jobs on the line thing. We left. JD's screwed. No, we kind of got him right now, guys. [2:50] Mark: Wow. [2:51] Justin: You know, he is in the air [2:53] Chad: but he is watching this right now. Just saying, we're kind of in a good power position at the moment. You guys, the only good thing right [3:00] Justin: now is JD's not walking through an airport and going into the bathroom to take a piss live on our show, [3:07] Chad: so that was tough. Hey, Brandon started to talk about it before we got kicked off. I think we do, Justin. I think we do go old school, and I think you need to come up with a word of the episode. [3:24] Mark: We have to leave that up to the chat bar. [3:26] Justin: Oh, I like that. [3:28] Mark: Yeah, we know. [3:28] Justin: I'm gonna fumble over my words if I try to think of it, so. [3:31] Chad: Hack. Hack already wrote something, which is terrible. [3:34] Justin: What do you say? [3:36] Chad: Going back and looking for it. [3:38] Justin: It. [3:38] Chad: It's not one we're gonna use. [3:40] Justin: Okay. [3:41] Chad: I don't remember the chat. Pretty quick. [3:44] Justin: It does. I don't think we're gonna. I don't think pep's a good one. [3:48] Chad: Yeah. Hack. Put rank and file. [3:52] Mark: Are we doing acro sin? Because if that's the case. Justin, you all. [3:55] Justin: No, we're doing word of the episode. Oh. [3:57] Mark: So just no acro sin. [3:59] Justin: Okay. Yeah. [3:59] Chad: All right. This will be a little bit easier then. [4:04] Mark: The. That's a really good one, actually. [4:06] Justin: How about. Oh, I like that. [4:11] Chad: I don't feel like any of us fall into that often. [4:14] Justin: I do it all the time. I just did it. That's what made me think of it. [4:18] Chad: Oh. Oh, you didn't get it from the chat bar. I thought you got no chat bar. [4:22] Justin: No. [4:22] Chad: Okay. I mean, I'm all right with kind of boring, but. [4:28] Justin: Well. [4:31] Mark: Oh, I do like Devin's idea of JD is a good one too. [4:35] Justin: That's actually a really good one. Yeah. [4:37] Chad: All right, we're going. Jd. Those are. [4:40] Justin: Those two. [4:40] Mark: All right. [4:41] Chad: Words. Okay. [4:41] Justin: There we go. [4:42] Chad: The episode. [4:43] Justin: Got our drinks ready. Ready. I know. [4:45] Chad: My. My drink ready. Tonight. We got it. [4:50] Mark: We get. [4:50] Chad: Let's just throw this out there because it will be confusing as we get into some of the segments, what the theme is. But I thought it was gonna turn out good. And then I started to try to put some topic thoughts together, and I'm like, this is gonna suck, but let's see if we can spot it. I went back in time and I started watching Match Game. Yeah. Oh, that's beautiful, Brandon. [5:23] Mark: That was good. [5:24] Chad: Brandon, you're always on top of this, B. Hey, if you search top 25 dating game shows, like, the ones that come up are. They were not good. And let me just say this, I'll throw it out there. Right now. Dismissed. Was not on there. I'm sure we'll run across that at some point. It was not there but that's what we're doing. We're going dating game shows tonight and we're going to try to tie it into 401k and we're going to crush it like beast. But I do like to. I know Marc hates it, but I like to start off every show with headlines. B, can you bring us into headlines? I'm so. I'm sober enough that I can skip it right now. James Douglas would love it that we're starting the headlines off with sports conversation. Go sports. [6:25] Justin: The team. The team. Go team. Go sports. [6:28] Chad: Hey, we just finished the Paris Olympics. I don't know about you all. That was freaking awesome. It's, it's, it's, it's becoming more and more exciting to me. You're. Well every four years, every two, I guess, depending on whether you're looking at winter. Because my kids are getting into it and the kids are watching these athletes and understanding what they're going through to prepare for this and that. The country is sitting on their back and what that, what excitement gets created. Damn. It was awesome. It was freaking awesome. [7:02] Justin: And this was the first time I ever didn't watch it. [7:05] Chad: You didn't watch any of it? [7:07] Justin: I didn't. No. Viewership has declined big time and I was one of them. [7:12] Chad: I think Justin, you were playing too much Fortnite to watch the Olympics perhaps. [7:17] Justin: Yeah, that's a possibility. [7:22] Mark: I mean the Olympics was eye opening in a lot of ways and I won't say like the, the best ways. What I realized is that attire in certain sports, you know, show too much. We're just seeing way too much these days. And I'll be honest, I know what you're talking about. Your kids. Chad. Yeah. Watching like diving with my 10 year old daughter. Nah, I don't recommend it. Don't recommend that. What's. I was. [7:52] Chad: What about pole? Because that man has become famous. [7:56] Mark: Yeah, hold on. [7:57] Chad: Well, that too. See, Justin's watching. [8:01] Mark: I was to say I've seen the [8:02] Justin: highlights of course, but we can't ignore Brian Williams comment. Anything that has to be judged is not a sport. [8:10] Chad: What are our thoughts like judged or refereed? Everything is, is judged and refereed. Are you trying to say. [8:18] Justin: No, he's saying like pointing scale. Right? Like ref is trying to say it's monitoring the game. [8:22] Chad: Subjective. He's trying to say that if it's judged it's subjective. But when you look at. I Mean, gymnast gymnastics could not be a better example right now because of the controversy with the bronze medal. You know, they. It is, it is black and white as to what difficulty grade your. Your task is or your event or whatever. I don't know. And then there is some subjective nature to it in terms of your style and what you do and how you, how you perform it. But I, I think I very much so disagree with that. Judging is a, A component of it. Which is why, as a baseball purist, I also disagree with having robots give us balls and strikes and out calls because sometimes you got to deal with umpires and umpires giving you a low strike zone and you got to start dealing the ball low. [9:13] Mark: So, sorry, I'm looking at, I'm looking at the break dancing person over here. It's really good. I mean, come on. Did you want to be cliche and talk about the break dancing? But like, that was. That has unfortunately become kind of a. I'll say, like, you know, mud on the face of the Olympics, which they already canned it for next time. But like, yeah, it's. [9:35] Chad: Why was it ever in. [9:37] Mark: Like, how, how. How do they evaluate and bring in new. [9:40] Justin: That looks like JD And Brandon at the. [9:41] Chad: One of the last conferences. But you are right. [9:49] Justin: Do you have that video? [9:53] Mark: All right, well, all I'll say is this. Snoop Dogg, the fact that he was everywhere during the Olympics and it's in LA in four years, I feel like he's just gonna end up being like the person who runs the Olympics eventually. So good for him. [10:11] Chad: We, we. We have to acknowledge metal count, which before I do, let me say this was the first Olympics that I at least saw in the opening ceremonies. All of the athletes on the boats that they had there coming across and waving their flags and their, and their colors and the excitement of the opening ceremonies, crazy to me that one country like the United States had 100 plus 400, buddy. [10:41] Justin: Like 400. [10:41] Chad: Over a hundred athletes. What? How a lot of athletes and then [10:45] Justin: 400 and like 80. [10:46] Chad: I think that has 24 athletes. Like, how in the world are you going to focus solely in on medal count when one country's got 14 athletes and the other one's got 400 athletes? Of course the group with 400 athletes is likely to get more medals. [11:01] Justin: Yeah, but you can also. [11:03] Mark: Who cares? [11:04] Justin: We have 592. We win. [11:06] Chad: We had the most 100. [11:07] Justin: But okay, it's funny that you say that. Did you guys see Canada make their post that they were number one because they got the most golds and the US Wasn't even on there. Let's crack up about that. [11:17] Chad: They got the most golds. US Got. [11:19] Mark: Well, we tied. [11:20] Chad: We tied. [11:20] Justin: Same. Same number of golds. [11:23] Chad: Yeah. Canada. [11:25] Justin: Yeah. No, no. US And China had the same number of golds. [11:30] Chad: Oh, I thought you said with Canada. [11:31] Justin: I just said it again. [11:32] Chad: Yeah, no, you did. [11:34] Justin: What I'm getting at is they. They published their standings and left the US Off. They just said, oh, we. We were the number one. [11:42] Chad: Which is not a lie. [11:43] Justin: It's not a lie. [11:44] Chad: It's going to tie into tonight's show. Well, Justin, it is. Hey. 40. [11:51] Justin: So drunk. [11:52] Chad: 44 silvers, 42 bronze. Kudos. You wonderful United States of America athletes. [12:02] Mark: Would you go right in there and silver or bronze? [12:06] Justin: Let's. You only care about get any one of them. [12:11] Chad: No. [12:11] Mark: If you don't win gold, would you rather win silver or bronze? [12:16] Chad: Well, of course I'd rather win silver, but what you're trying to get at is it doesn't really matter, right? [12:20] Mark: No, I, I honestly, I think. I. I don't know. I don't think winning silver means you kind of just weren't so close to that gold. But bronze means, like. [12:29] Chad: Well, not necessarily. If you're swimming against Katie Ledecky, you weren't anywhere near that goal. [12:34] Mark: That's true. [12:34] Chad: She was winning by like a 50 meter pool length was insanity. Here's. Here's my last question, and then we'll move on. Favorite sport. Justin, you're kicked out of this group because you didn't watch any favorite event that you watched. [12:48] Justin: Mark. [12:53] Mark: Unfortunately, it's nothing unique. My favorite was basketball because watching Steph Curry dominate was awesome. [13:01] Chad: Yeah. Webby put surfing. I did watch surfing. I loved it. [13:05] Mark: Surfing is the worst thing to watch ever. [13:09] Chad: If you're watching the highlights, [13:12] Mark: just sit there and wait. [13:15] Chad: Hey, that's. [13:16] Mark: That's surfing. [13:18] Chad: What about this guy? [13:20] Mark: He was pretty cool. [13:21] Chad: Again, I didn't watch it. [13:24] Mark: Some of the shooting was really hard to watch. Couldn't follow it. [13:28] Chad: Women's soccer. That. Women's soccer were probably my 2 favorite. [13:32] Mark: Soccer is good. [13:33] Justin: Yeah. [13:34] Chad: Women's soccer was phenomenal. I also. Yeah, there he is. My favorite event in terms of quick watch is the men and women's 4 by 100 relay race. [13:48] Justin: That. [13:48] Chad: I mean, yeah, that's a lot of fun. And you have to hand off the baton. And there's so many different things, and they start at different lengths or at different positions, but then they are allowed to get into lane one after their second or third turn, like just that was cool. There was so much happening. We'll transition as we continue down headlines. I don't think we've ever talked about this in the past, and I feel like it deserves a shout out. Nevin Adams on LinkedIn puts out a Tuesday touch pointer every Tuesday. And every Tuesday he picks three or four Tuesday touch pointers. He picks two or three topics that are relevant that people would want to read about. He. He gives a minute and a half of commentary and then he puts the links in the comments. If you all are not connected with Nevin or if you're not paying attention to his Tuesday touch points, you need to, because there's. There's good in there. Here's what I pulled from this week. Tuesday. Anybody following the number of podcasts Nevin Adams and Fred Reich have together now? [14:53] Justin: Number of or how many episodes? [14:56] Chad: How many different podcasts? I think the most recent one is Retirement Minds. It showed episode one, season one, Episode one of this. What's happening there are they. Is the branding going bad? So they just keep throwing out a new name or a new topic or something, but it's a new podcast again. They had, oh, Charlie Nelson on the OG of Voya and. And Great west rises to the top. [15:27] Mark: I'm gonna say this real quick, Chad. You say a lot and I want to give you acro sense for that because of our word. [15:34] Chad: But. Yeah, That was a but. If I get. [15:43] Mark: All right, so same thing. [15:45] Chad: I'm there. [15:46] Mark: So I think the podcasting, to your point, Chad, is we. I think we've seen through many different, like, ventures, people in business, people in sports, people in politics, whatever, who try to start podcasts, and it's not easy and it's hard to maintain and things happen. And then maybe instead of, like, trying to redo it, it's almost like starting something new is a little bit easier and maybe it sticks. Right. Maybe a rebrand of something similar. Could you just need something to catch. [16:20] Chad: Okay. [16:20] Mark: Once something catches. [16:22] Chad: Yeah, they are. I would. I would think each of the iterations they've done are catching. And I don't feel like anything has been very different. I feel like they like, maybe like shows on cable they run three seasons and then like, yeah, even though people still love it, we got to go out on a high note. So let's shut down that show and, and run a new pilot. That's almost what I feel. It's like, because I love all the podcasts and we'll tune into them usually as I'm, you know, laying around in bed at night or early in the morning while I'm hammering away at emails. It's all valuable. I'm not sure why the transition. Anyways, if you're not part of Tuesday touch pointers, you need to be tune into to what Nevin's pushing out there. It's. It's good. Justin, it's your turn. Sir, you sent us two this week headlines that you were excited about. [17:13] Mark: So one of them had the name of somebody in our chat bar in it, which is always awesome to see. [17:20] Justin: It did, yeah. [17:24] Chad: That's new to me. [17:25] Justin: Wow. [17:26] Mark: Oh, this is awkward. Okay, go on. [17:28] Chad: I'm be honest. [17:29] Justin: I. I just didn't read them. [17:31] Chad: But you just sent them over and didn't read them. [17:35] Justin: When you text me that thing the day like, hey, can you do some research? I was like, I had every best intention to do it, but I just went from call to call to call and had to get out. And I was like, oh, man, I'm just gonna. [17:44] Mark: Here we go. Yeah, come on. [17:46] Justin: Can you fire from the hip the article, please? [17:48] Chad: Oh, gosh, here we go. The. [17:50] Justin: The first one going to go with. I'm going to go out of order here, pal. Is plan sponsored. You sent it to B. Yeah, but [17:57] Chad: I sent it 90 seconds before the show started. [18:00] Justin: Oh, there you go. So it's not going to come. How does Secure 2.0's mid year termination of simple IRAs work? [18:05] Mark: This is Mike Webb. Mike Webby's name is authored on there. Yeah, so. [18:09] Chad: Oh, Webby wrote it. R O G. Yeah. [18:14] Mark: Wow. [18:14] Justin: Oh, there it is. There it is. Sorry, it was fine print. [18:18] Chad: But you should know that I wrote the one that was published in Playing Consultant magazine on mid year conversions. [18:27] Justin: Guys, we are really stretching. Yeah. [18:33] Chad: Justin, just freeze. [18:35] Mark: He did. [18:36] Justin: Anyways, so getting into this. Oh, I froze. [18:39] Chad: No, you're back. Go. [18:40] Justin: Okay, cool. So how does Secure 2.0 mid year termination of simple IRAs work? Yeah, know when this first came out, I thought it was absolutely amazing. I was like, finally it made no sense, you know, in prior years why we had to wait that we did. I mean, I guess it kind of did make sense, but you know, the way they went about allowing for the change seemed awesome. And it seems as the further we get into this first year being able to do so, the less likely. I'm really kind of stoked and want to recommend people doing it for quite a, you know, a multitude of reasons. Now if you do it in the beginning of the year, as we learned, you have to take. You don't get to max out in the 401k, 402g limits. Right. You have to take a proration of how much time is left in the year for the 401k to operate and also look at how much time was in the beginning of the year. And a proration of the simple IRA contribution limits. Not a terrible thing. [19:35] Chad: Buttons. [19:37] Justin: Sorry, you don't have any buttons. Not terrible. [19:39] Mark: Hit them. Because accuracy. [19:40] Justin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Am I, Do I keep doing it anyways? Yep, I did it. So it wasn't terrible transitioning in the beginning of the year. But as we've grown close to this part of the year, it is becoming less of something we want to recommend because it's not really worth it in my mind. I don't know how you guys feel about that. [20:01] Mark: It all, it all depends and stems again. Taking this back a couple of steps. What obviously what we're getting at is this year you can terminate a simple IRA and put into place a 401K. And one of the cool things that we learned through the legislation initially was that the two year requirement of the dollars being in the simple could move over to the 401k. But what we ran into was the fact that in this, Webby was on top of it. This is like a tax exemption. That doesn't necessarily mean that the record keepers have to play ball. So what we learned in helping some clients go through these transitions was there was a brick wall put up by them saying like, no, they're exempt from it. But that doesn't mean we have to accept those assets. And so that's where to Justin's point, we begin kind of going through this cycle of going. You really have to think about all the different options for clients and all the different rules and changes. But what I'm seeing, Justin, to take your question and excellent is if somebody wants profit sharing, then it likely is going to be a viable option to make a transition. But if they're really just trying to go from a simple IRA to a safe harbor match where they're only going to be able to put in a minute amount more than they would be, then maybe it's not worth all of that. [21:18] Chad: Let's, let's clarify because we've chatted about this as a consulting team, the timing of that. When's the threshold? When, if all you're trying to do is get a raised deferral rate, when's the threshold where that stops really making sense? It's kind of in that June range because once you get beyond June, the proration has your Limit fairly close to what you can get in the simple anyways and it might not be worth the mid year migration and taking on some expense for running the K plan. Mark's point, if you're going to fund profit sharing as a business, it likely makes great sense and great tax sense to convert over at that point. Now what I will say and I got to give credit where credit is due. And I thought we talked about this, but perhaps we didn't on the show it was Hancock that put up the we will not accept inside a two year simple IRA over to 401k rollovers. And I'm like, that's the legislation says you can do it, clients want to do it, you should do it. And so I got on the horn with their lead, lead lead of distribution and rollovers. And he's like, here's why Chad. And he broke down the fact that once you roll over inside two years it's a restricted rollover and now it will always carry that name tag. It's a restrictive rollover and restricted rollovers will have certain restrictions when it comes to distribution rules. And so they've looked at it and said it's actually not in the best interest of the participant to do this. We don't believe anybody should roll over their money inside two years. Years. So we're just not allowing or flat out not allowing it. And I fought him. I said, you're wrong. And who did I go to? I went to the one and only Nevin Adams and I went to Ara and I said this is what they're telling me. I don't think it's right. Here's the legislation, here's what I'm reading in the bill, tell me I'm wrong. And they came back and said, jad, you're wrong. Like they're right inside the two. And the crowd goes wild. [23:21] Justin: Yeah. [23:22] Chad: So this again, much like different portions of secure 2.0, really wonderful thing when written on paper. Somewhat difficult when it comes to application. So I have taken it just guys and I know the two of you know this, but I'll say that the rest of the retireholics world at this point I've gone in and said I'm not advising an insight into your rollover. Even if the record keeper will allow it. I'm leaving it out. It's not something we're pushing, it's not something we're recommending. We are doing mid year. I am writing mid year transfers a number of them because it especially this time of year they're funding Profit sharing it super tax efficient, but otherwise I'm staying away from it, so kudos. Webby, [24:08] Mark: what's the next one, Justin? [24:10] Justin: Reading up on it right now. [24:12] Mark: Perfect. [24:13] Chad: Perfect. [24:16] Justin: The boogeyman is back. Yet again. TIA Morningstar sued over retirement advice tool Schlichter Bogard led compliant alleged or. Complaint alleges that providers push participants into retirement advice that led TIA to annuity investments, and now they're getting sued for. [24:39] Mark: You look. [24:40] Chad: You look. [24:41] Mark: Yeah. [24:41] Chad: What do you have to do? [24:46] Mark: I wish that was on your LinkedIn profile. [24:49] Chad: That's gonna be my new LinkedIn profile. [24:50] Mark: Yeah. [24:50] Chad: Dude, I don't know. Can I ask? [24:53] Mark: Reading through this, it just gave me this thought of, like, this. This concept of, I guess, you know, companies trying to sell their own is so normal. And in our world, I know that there's a lot of ways it can be seen as negative, you know, the whole idea of proprietary and all these different things. But some of the way the article is written about, like, I know they're not positioning it like themselves, but saying, oh, they're trying to make more money effectively. Those are my words. [25:28] Justin: Yeah. [25:29] Mark: What the heck's wrong with that? Right? I mean, if there's a process and they're going to defend themselves, there's a process and they are saying, hey, a. A participant has access to our programs and we offer investment vehicles within our programs. Yeah. There's costs involved there, and it's an option. Great. But again, I know I'm being very general here, but the more and more I read through it, I just kept getting this, like, weird thought of, like, are we really stooping to that point of just always suing when it's like, oh, a company had their own investments and they made more money? That's not okay. [26:05] Chad: I. [26:06] Justin: We are a very litigious society, Mark. [26:08] Mark: We have word for you. [26:12] Chad: I don't think the issue is so much selling your own widgets as much as it is qualifying whether or not your own widgets are right for that client. [26:23] Mark: And. [26:23] Chad: And let's take it to real world format, right? When I. When I roll into McDonald's and I want to order a burger, they don't come to me and say, hey, here's our burger. Here's In N Outs. It's super good as well. You should probably consider, In n outs, McDonald's is there for. For me to purchase a McDonald's burger. And I went into McDonald's to purchase a McDonald's burger. So I don't. I don't necessarily mind this thought of proprietary What I do mind is if I go in there to order chicken nuggets and they say, too bad, you get a burger. If I'm in there to invest in my 401k and they're pushing annuities at me, then. Then I might have an issue with that. And so when I look at this, I see. I see different areas of exposure. What I would like to do is flip it off the annuity side, though, and ask the two of you a little bit around, around this thought of using proprietary tools and the methodology that they have built, then recommend their own products. And here, let me phrase that a little differently. All providers have these financial wellness tools now. And those financial wellness tools are typically created by the provider. And often I think that they may be tiered in a way that recommends products that the providers are selling versus really trying to dive into what might be right for that participant. And so when I see that this lawsuit was an advice tool, it's technology. Right. That led to this. I feel like we're going to see more of this in the future where people are questioning. Where litigation is questioning the prudence of the tool that was created that recommended the option because it's not a person now. Right. You can't say that the person didn't do their due diligence. It's a process. It's a procedure. And are we going to start seeing more lawsuits around the process of these advice tools? [28:31] Justin: I don't necessarily think that's fair, though. I'm kind of. I think this is kind of what Greg was getting at, too. And it was in my head when we were talking about the difference between In n out and McDonald's and whatnot. Like, how long are we going to do this and file lawsuits for things and not blame the consumer for not educating themselves on something that they should be right. [28:53] Chad: Remember the person that burned their face on hot coffee from McDonald's? [28:56] Justin: I get that, but that doesn't mean it's right. It doesn't mean it's right by any means. Or that they should, you know, the company should take on a liability. Hey, T and Morningstar are trying to make money. We are in a capitalist society. I saw someone say that, too. I think it might have been great. I think it's okay to try to make more money. Yeah. You can help offset fees. And I understand we need to be cautious of that as an industry because we, I think, collectively over the years have probably gotten paid a lot more than we should have, you know, as an industry and. And made a Lot more money than we should have on people's retirement. But at some point we got to get to, hey, the consumer needs to educate themselves too. We can't just be spoon feeding them everything and then all of a sudden we try to give them something that's going to be useful for them, potentially not going to be a one size fits all by any means. And even though we try to do that, we're, we're getting sued for it. [29:44] Chad: Now I don't know if this has any correlation, so you guys can shut me up if, if it doesn't. But I, I, I got this thought in my head a second ago of like walking into the grocery store and I'm there for milk, right? And then I come to the front and I'm getting ready to pay for my milk and I see a candy bar advertised right in front of me. I want to buy that candy bar. Now it sounds great, the snicker sounds great and I buy that candy bar. I almost feel like if we were to take the rules and the litigation in our space and move it over to that example, grocery stores would be being sued because they put a candy bar in my eyesight as I'm paying where I have to go and I have to be every time they're going to be sued because they put another product that I may want or may not want, or maybe I'm lactose intolerant and buying milk. That's a bad example. But I think you get my point of like product placement in our industry is bad. It's not prudent. You shouldn't try to sell these to people because the consumer's not smart enough to choose if they need it, but yet in every other walk of life it's there. [30:53] Mark: Well, and Chad, going back to your point there, and I think you have a very valid point of is it no longer, you know, going to be looked at from the standpoint of maybe it's a person to person contact where somebody is using, did I say something? Okay. That somebody is using sales techniques or being shady to get somebody to purchase something because they benefit from it. But is it going to be, you know, I don't know, like you're saying a process, an algorithm technology where somebody or some company has coded something where it's nearly impossible for that person to do anything other than where they want to funnel these dollars or where they want to funnel these part. And I think, yeah, I think that's something that's going to have to be closely monitored. I be it probably is, but Yes, I agree with you there. I also don't like the fact that in that article they talked about like, sales incentives where they're telling people get hit quotas and bonuses for, for getting, you know, hitting their numbers in that particular product. They work for the company. They should believe in the product. So they're going to be incentivized to sell it. [32:07] Justin: Yes. [32:07] Mark: But also they should want to or else why are you working? [32:11] Chad: Why are you employed there? Yeah, that will transition. But that is always a funny one to me, Mark. And I know that you two have been in the business long enough to see it too, where you have a wholesaler in your office and they're repping a company and they're talking about how great their product is. And then the next week they've left that, that record keeper and now they're at a new one and they're in and they're like, this is the best product out there. I know I told you last week that that other one was fantastic, but we're here. [32:41] Justin: That's always the worst. When a good person that you, you like and just is a solid human being leaves for whatever reason goes, joins a team that, you know is just not ideal. You're like, oh, gosh, you didn't do that. Yeah. [32:52] Chad: Yeah. And that, that tees us up perfectly for our first Dating Game show, guys. [32:58] Justin: No, it does it. [32:59] Chad: Yeah, it does. We're going to see what does. Welcome to Love Connection, where old fashioned [33:08] Mark: romance meets modern technology, [33:13] Chad: where you hear [33:13] Justin: all the details of a first date. [33:26] Chad: Oh, Chuck. Oh, good old Chuck. I get you. You're not ready to go to the blind date because you first want us to bring us in as. As your guests of the Dating Game show and get the audience entangled in guessing who is who. [33:40] Justin: I'm gonna be honest with you. I was wishing for, but. [33:43] Chad: Why don't you introduce us, Justin? [33:46] Justin: Well, I'm confused now. I thought we were playing like a. I'm gonna name off three different things that each one of us. That represents each one of us. And the audience gets a guess. [33:55] Chad: The audience get a guest. Yeah. All right. It's the first blind date dating game show where you're going to try to have the audience guess which retireholic you are describing. Describing based upon certain hints. [34:06] Justin: Greg, I don't know if the of means oh or only fans. What are we talking about here? Oh, oh, I see. The wheel of. Okay, well, I guess we can pause that. Do we have a wheel this show or no? Yes, we do. Brandon never misses I was not prepared for this. [34:29] Chad: I hope it lands on Jamie Douglas. [34:31] Justin: That. [34:31] Chad: There you go, Mark. Damn it. Yes, I do keep smearing off ice on my desk. Don't. [34:42] Mark: Doesn't everybody? [34:49] Justin: Ah, Devin, I'm so glad you put that in the chat. Hello, everyone, from the friendly skies of first class. I'm currently directly over the flyover states. Hi, Chad. And being served a wonderful cheesecake. Okay, time to get into the game. All right, everybody, I think you. Hopefully you understood that. I'm going to. It's kind of like two truths in the lie, but I'm just going to name off, you know, one trait from that. Each of us that represents each of us. And you guys are gonna try and guess who's who. So the first one, first round will be three in total. Used to drive his car in reverse to take miles off the odometer. One of us once struck out 12 times at a Fourth of July softball tournament. And the other one of us once devastated an entire family by posting that their daughter was pregnant on social media when she actually wasn't. So number one. [35:42] Chad: Number one. [35:43] Justin: Used to drive his car in reverse to take miles off the odometer. Very smart person. [35:49] Chad: I think everybody knows who that is. If it's a very smart person, it can't be you two guys. [35:54] Justin: Oh, Webby says Mark, Justin, Chad, you are wrong on all three of those, pal. So far, we only have one winner, and that is Greg. That was Chad. Bravo. [36:10] Mark: That we found out because everybody thinks I'm actually stupid. [36:16] Chad: By 19 was a 1982 Honda Accord. We found out that if you drive it in reverse. [36:22] Justin: We didn't know that. That was amazing just driving around your neighborhood. We didn't take too many miles off that thing, but we did get some [36:30] Chad: on a jack once and drove it in reverse for a while. [36:32] Justin: That's what we did. [36:33] Chad: Yep. Yep. Cruise control can set in reverse, but [36:36] Justin: it can you say that was an 81 Honda. [36:39] Chad: 82 Honda. [36:40] Justin: Oh, never mind. Okay. [36:42] Mark: All right. [36:42] Justin: So the last. The next or the next two to guess who would between me and Mark, who struck out 12 times at a Fourth of July softball tournament and who once posted that their friend's daughter was pregnant on social media when she actually wasn't. I don't got 12 times. Is that me or Mark? It was Mark. You all that are saying it was me. [37:12] Mark: I am. [37:13] Justin: I am a fat, athletic individual. [37:15] Mark: All right, I do. I do have to defend myself. It wasn't 12 times. [37:19] Justin: It was 12 times, pal. No, I can call Neil right now. I'll Call Neil. [37:24] Chad: Call him. [37:26] Mark: It was not 12 times. [37:28] Justin: It is. It is what I say it is. We played in four games. You struck out three times every time. [37:33] Mark: No, I didn't. [37:34] Justin: Anyways, here we go. [37:35] Chad: Moving on. [37:36] Justin: How about that? [37:37] Chad: Take me outside. Yeah. [37:39] Justin: And then yes, I was right. [37:41] Chad: I was part. [37:42] Justin: I was part of a duo when we were heavily intoxicated in my parents house having a party one night many years ago that participated in posting that Chad's wife was pregnant on her social media account when she actually. [37:58] Chad: Wait, time out. This was not my wife at this point in time either. Oh, that's right, fiance. And he posted. And her whole family lives in the state of Missouri. So when we woke up at like roughly 11 o' clock because we stayed up late drinking, there was a lot of text messages, voicemails stating wtf? You didn't call us. You didn't tell us you guys are pregnant. This is not good. Yeah, thanks, Justin. We really appreciated that. [38:27] Justin: Don't forget about the announcement at the church. [38:29] Chad: Oh, yeah, that's right. At the. At the church of my wife's town. They announced in the front of everybody that Brooke Gasu was pregnant, expecting her first child. Church. And that is how her grandparents. [38:44] Justin: I love me a good prank. Anyways, moving on. All right, round two. [38:49] Chad: Round two. This one's gonna be fun for me because this is all me against you guys and the chat bar blind date status. I'm gonna give you some hints. [38:58] Justin: Wait, what? [38:59] Mark: Justin has another round. [39:01] Justin: I got them all, pal. [39:02] Mark: Yeah? [39:02] Chad: Yeah. Oh, you're gonna do multiple. [39:05] Justin: Yeah, why not? Let's keep going. [39:06] Chad: Go ahead. All right, go. [39:08] Justin: In the spirit of the dating Game things, Dating game theme, one of us was once on a dating show and when asked if they had ever had sex, the response was, I don't have sex. I just make love. True story. The other one of us is the kindest soul on the Retireaholics. And the third of us is the most caring in the world. Who's who. [39:36] Chad: That's tough. I actually don't know two and three then. [39:41] Mark: Well, you just ruined it for everybody. [39:44] Chad: Why? I know the dating webby thinks no. [39:50] Mark: Again, everybody has me mistaken. [39:53] Justin: I'm one of one of three of those, right? [39:56] Chad: You're like a hidden human being, Mark, [39:58] Mark: if you met me in person. [40:01] Justin: All right, Devin wants the questions again. So number one question. Number one for one of us is. Was once on a dating show. And when asked if he ever had sex, the response was, I don't have sex. I just make love on live tv. He said that the other one is the kindest soul of the retireholics, and the other one's the most caring in the world. [40:18] Chad: Okay, we're gonna give this one in because everybody knows I was on an MTV dating game show, and I won that show because I'm a competitor and I don't want to. And while I said the I only make love, I did also strip on top of the dinner table. [40:38] Justin: You're not doing yourself any favors there, pal. [40:41] Chad: Didn't need to. It was an awesome moment. It was an awesome. I'm proud of that moment. I'm proud. Yeah. [40:48] Mark: Yeah. Any of us ever see it? [40:52] Chad: No, I've seen it because it's only on vhs. That's how old I am now. All right. But now and then, the kind of [40:57] Justin: soul on the retire hollows is definitely Mark. And the kindest in the world is. Is definitely. [41:03] Chad: Oh, man. I thought. Sweet. [41:05] Mark: I thought you were. You were pinning. Pegging me for number two. [41:08] Justin: I would never peg you, pal. It's attractive. [41:12] Mark: Oh, wow. [41:13] Chad: Justin, since I don't know how many of these you have. Are you done with your. [41:17] Justin: I'll be done. I'll be done. Gotta move on. Sake of time. [41:20] Chad: It's 7:11. It's time for an icy. Another one? No. [41:27] Justin: Moving on. You want one more? All right, so his first love and his last love share the same name. Most used phrases. New phone, who dis? And the other one apparently hit more home runs out of anyone on the retireholics. Growing up in baseball, we know it probably wasn't Mark [41:53] Chad: because he struck out 12 times. And softballs, which is not. [41:57] Mark: That is the fallacies, dude. It's just absolutely erroneous. Erroneous. [42:03] Justin: Okay, okay. So Chad, Mark, Justin. Justin, Mark, Chad. Chad could hit, says Greg. Last one was definitely Justin. Webby said which one be helped him become a good golfer? Well, I'm not a good golfer, so. [42:18] Chad: No, no. And the chats are happening too quick. [42:22] Justin: They are. [42:22] Chad: Which helped him become a good golfer. Greg is saying that I'm a good golfer. Gg, that's the sweetest thing you've ever said to me. [42:34] Justin: I'm sure that's probably not true, but anyways, he tries good efforts. All right, so Chad's first love and last love share the same name of Brooke. Mark always responds to text messages. New phone. Who dis? And Chad gave me that one about me hitting home runs. I remember that very fondly. [42:55] Chad: You did? He hit a lot of home runs. I was so I. [42:59] Justin: Anyway, so there's a little Bit more about the retireholics. [43:02] Mark: Oh, love it. [43:05] Justin: All right, moving on after this. [43:11] Chad: Say I don't carry two of them right now. This is rigged. [43:14] Justin: This is too good. [43:15] Chad: All right, here we go. I'm playing blind date with you guys and the chat bar. I'm giving stats of record keepers. Okay, Stats. And you have to tell me which record keeper you think it is. All right, I'm gonna first start this episode off by saying that the first seven contestants list their number one attribute as. That's it. Number one. Number one provider in the defined contribution space. Contestant number two. Number one provider in the defined contribution space. Contestant number three. Number one. [43:52] Mark: I think we get it. I think we've got it now. [43:55] Chad: Number four. Number one provider. Number five. [43:58] Justin: We got seven. One. By what metrics are we measuring this, Chad? [44:03] Chad: Number set. Number six. Number one provider. Seven. Oh, my gosh. Number one provider in the defined contribution space. All seven of you. The point of this is to tell you guys that statistics can be tiered and they can be swayed. All seven of these contestants are the number one provider. One might be in MEP, one might be in small and mid sized plans. One might be in plans under 5 million. One might be in total assets provider plan count provider by single employer plans, provider in PEP assets and provider in 457 plans. That is B and F, by the way. [44:48] Mark: Yeah, GG that was my spreadsheet attached here. There's no spreadsheet. [44:53] Chad: Oh, I'm not giving you guys the answers. I don't give you guys the answers. That's why I'm calling. [44:57] Mark: That was a note for yourself. You wrote a note for your. [45:00] Chad: I did. I wrote a note for myself. So here's the point. Initially, as I launch into this is you have to actually read the little thumbnails. Every single statistic I am going to give you all is either from Plan Sponsor magazine and their Is this open book. Can I go online or it is from proposals. Every statistic here. Proposals or Plan Sponsor magazine. And I have to give credit where credit is due. Devin, thank you so much for putting this together when I was busy. [45:32] Justin: Wow, you are a solid internal external. [45:36] Chad: So here you go. Contestant number one currently has 20. Well, phrase that because in their proposal, this statistic is from 2021. In their 2024 proposal, this statistic is from 2020. Currently has 29,000 plans, 4.1 million participants, and $263 billion in assets under management. They're the number one provider in multiple employer plan assets. They're a top ten record keeping provider in the US again in their proposal based upon 2021 plan sponsor survey. And lastly, they are by plan sponsor satisfaction and account managers. Their account managers have a 97% satisfaction rate. Read the subtitle. It is in mega market only. Tell me who you think what is. [46:37] Mark: Okay. [46:39] Chad: 29,000 plans. $263 billion. 4.1 million. The plan count has got to give you a little direction there, guys. Any guesses? [46:53] Justin: Well, my initial thought was going to be ADP [47:02] Chad: Mark. [47:04] Mark: Sorry, I lost my volume here. [47:06] Justin: Can you hear me with the map? [47:08] Chad: Gotcha. [47:09] Justin: No, that didn't make sense. Never mind. [47:11] Chad: The map is the big one. [47:13] Justin: Yeah, [47:16] Chad: Marcus. [47:18] Justin: Yeah, I should have thought about that. [47:21] Chad: It was the 29,000. [47:22] Justin: I didn't think they had 29000 plans. [47:24] Chad: By the way. Shame on me, guys. So many of these stats are inside our proposal documents. The stats were from 2021 and the 2024 proposal. That was discouraging to me. They are not the only ones that have done that. So be prepared as I go through. [47:42] Mark: Look at Justin. Justin's going into. [47:45] Chad: Just guess. Just guess. [47:47] Mark: I just want. [47:48] Chad: The point of this is to you to guess who the blind date is. Who's behind the curtain. Mac, let's let it happen. Yeah, this is all right. Here you go. Contestant number two. Number one. Provider of small and mid sized plans. Statement on the proposal. Small and mid sized plans. 82,000 plans. $1.4 trillion. [48:11] Mark: John Hancock. [48:13] Chad: 18 million. 18 million participants. [48:18] Mark: John Hancock. Justin, he's reading something right now. [48:25] Justin: No, I'm not. I'm taking all the stats. [48:28] Chad: I'll give you more since Mark jumped in quickly. Number one, small and medium growth. Number one participant growth year over year. 2022 Plan Sponsor 55 awards and plan sponsor magazines. Record keeper survey industry professionals. [48:46] Justin: I'm going with Mark. I'm sorry to say it. I'm going Hancock too. [48:51] Chad: Chat bar. Nobody has said it yet. And I'm saying that because Gigi said it. Or the first question that isn't power boys. 82,000 small. [49:01] Justin: What do we count? [49:02] Chad: Thousand plans. They quote themselves as the provider of small and mid sized plans. Number one provider, small midsize plans. [49:10] Justin: Okay, okay. [49:13] Chad: Let's go back to our number one provider. Number one provider by total assets. $3.4 trillion in DC assets. 31 million participants. 35,000 plans. 35,000 plans. Ranked number one in customer service by some. [49:36] Mark: Fidelity. [49:37] Justin: Fidelity. Thanks, Webb. [49:41] Chad: Good job. That is Fidelity. Was it? It was the 3.4 trillion. [49:45] Mark: Oh, first off, I did not. I was not looking at the chat bar. I said that on my own free will. [49:49] Justin: Came right up there. [49:50] Chad: Fidelity. Good job. [49:53] Justin: You hit it. [49:55] Chad: We're gonna go. We're gonna go to one of the big dogs here. They're number one. Imagine that. What, by plan count? Number one. By plan count. 160,000 plans. 100 in assets under management. 4 million participants. [50:15] Justin: That's what I was thinking, Webby. Has it been said before? [50:22] Chad: No. [50:23] Justin: Well, round one. [50:24] Chad: I mean, people have guessed it. In the chat bar. [50:26] Justin: Have I guessed it? [50:30] Chad: I don't think so. I don't. I don't. I'm not big enough. [50:36] Justin: I said 80. Yeah, I was going with ADP. [50:39] Mark: Mark, can you repeat? Can you repeat real fast? [50:41] Chad: Go through 160,000 plans. 4 million participants. 100 billion in. In assets under management. [50:46] Mark: I'm going to say. I'm going to go opposite that. I'm going to say paychecks. [50:49] Chad: Oh, I do not have paychecks. In this category or in this spreadsheet, it is adp. Kudos, Justin, by the way. That blew my damn mind. You guys remember when we did on the wall, like, season one, episode two, and we released maybe three these different stat categories ADP had, and they were above everybody else. Had 60,000 plans. Yeah, 160,000 is what they're. They're ranked at. Right. [51:15] Justin: Episode three. There you go, man. [51:16] Chad: All right, let's keep going. 112,000 plans. 5 million participants. $288 billion in AUM. Just think about plan count. That's got to lead you somewhere. 112,000 plans. [51:39] Justin: No fo. Is there web. That's a good guess, though. [51:42] Chad: I'm gonna go. [51:43] Mark: I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go back to. [51:46] Justin: It's a lot sl. [51:47] Mark: I'm gonna go back to John Hancock. [51:52] Chad: Justin, you have a guess. [51:55] Justin: I'm thinking of startups right now because that helps get that plan count up. I'm gonna say American funds. That's a freaking shoot. Never mind. Yeah, but I'm gonna go with it. Who cares? [52:04] Chad: You guys are. You're both off. And when I say it, you're gonna go. Oh, that makes sense. It's a census. [52:13] Justin: Oh, my God. Yep, yep. [52:16] Chad: I knew you both would say that when you thought about it. We'll go two more. Two more guesses, and then we'll talk real quickly about a couple of these folks. Your next one, which was a big surprise to me. 58,000 plans. 58,000. That's. That's a lot. 11.5 million participants. A census has 5 million. So 11.5 million 500 billion in AUM or AUA or whatever they want to quote. So 500 billion versus a census is 288. 11 million participants versus the 5 million at a census. This but only 58, 000 plans in comparison to the 112, 000. [53:03] Justin: I'm gonna go. [53:04] Chad: Hancock [53:06] Justin: had to get there before you did. Mark. [53:08] Chad: Mark looks like he's frozen. Webby. I think for the first time in a while, Webbie, you are wrong. [53:18] Justin: Damn it. Really? [53:20] Mark: You guys froze on me. [53:21] Justin: I thought you froze on us. [53:23] Chad: Okay, I'm answering. I'm answering because we're gonna move. I didn't hear anything. [53:27] Mark: I didn't hear it. [53:28] Chad: I know. [53:28] Mark: Froze on me. [53:29] Justin: Sorry. We're moving on. [53:30] Chad: We're answering, though, that there is principal. That was surprising. [53:34] Mark: Principal. [53:35] Chad: 58, 000 plans. That was surprising to me. Let me give you two more quick ones. You guys know it was two more one more ago. John Hancock is 56, 56, 000 plans. Number one ready for the wheel again. Plan count under with plans under 5 million. I think that one would have given it away to the two of you. [53:55] Justin: Yeah. [53:56] Chad: Number one provider by plans under 5 million. The other one that I said, number one provider by 457 plans was nationwide. [54:06] Justin: Yeah, that makes sense. [54:07] Chad: My point of doing this, it goes back to actually something that JD had me. Dang it had me do for ever ago is statistics can be swayed, guys. [54:21] Justin: No. [54:22] Chad: Can be swayed. When you look at these proposals and. And I just. [54:26] Justin: Those are totally made up statistics that [54:29] Chad: stated they're the number one provider. The number one provider. And then in small writing, in 457, number one provider. [54:36] Justin: Kind of like when you say we're [54:37] Chad: having a great year and me and [54:39] Justin: Mark are just pulling everything and you're [54:41] Chad: just, you know, oh, this might be the first year where you have a chance to potentially beat me. Go after it, Mac. Go after it. No, let me be serious for a second though, folks. Like, take one moment and look as you quote product size, provider services, and what I had hoped to do, but we're just talking too much, was to talk a little bit about each of these and where they fit. [55:07] Mark: These are. [55:09] Chad: These statistics are swayed. And you need to make sure that we understand if you're recommending a 401k and it's stated that they're the number one provider. But then down below it says in 457 assets or 403b assets that you're cognizant of that you can't overlook the way these statistics get swayed. I'm going to pick the online dating algorithm. We're gonna do that one and then, and then we're. And then we're done. I'm gonna skip out. [55:40] Mark: Yes. [55:41] Justin: I'm just gonna start drinking because Brandon's algorithm puts it right on us. [55:46] Chad: Thanks for letting me know that we're doing such a great job. [55:52] Justin: When I said us. Hey, this proves the fact that Brandon can manipulate that. I don't have a smear knob, so I'm just going with the rest of my summer. Alex. [56:02] Chad: I envisioned such a quick show with lots of good in it. And what I've learned is that without JD's coordination, this doesn't work. [56:11] Justin: We're not, we're not versed at this. Hey, I told you guys when the text came out, this is going to be a record breaking show and it is not right now. And we're looking to be over after 10 minutes. [56:22] Chad: Here's what we're going. We're playing the online dating algorithm. We're going to move quickly. I'm going to give you guys some statistics. You're going to quickly fire off what time type of plan fits for this type of client. Give me one sentence, sentence as to why Marcus frozen. So, Justin, it's all on you. You have a restaurant in the state of California. [56:44] Justin: Cal Savers go move on. [56:46] Chad: With 150 employees. [56:48] Justin: Some Cal Savers move on. Done. [56:50] Chad: Some part timers, dude, next. [56:53] Justin: Let's go. Come on. I already said Cal Savers, we're moving on. I'm not taking that one because it's a pain in the ass type of a client. You know, they're never going to keep in touch with it. Do the census collection at the end of the year. They're not going to want to do any of that shit. They're not going to have great participants, high turnover. The best thing they can do is just align with Cal Savers and go. That's not a lot. [57:11] Chad: But Cal Savers could lead to a bunch of back and forth with these part timers becoming eligible right away and having to create accounts. [57:20] Justin: It's a restaurant. We're talking about majority younger individuals who are going to be moving their, you know, moving on from employment and may or may not have assets that need to move over. No advisor is going to properly want to service that. [57:33] Chad: I positioned that for CalSavers. But I will argue and say that we have others. Where we look at a profit sharing only plan with a two year eligibility. You target the ownership and you set up something sweet for. But that was set up for CalSavers. Yes, you're right. Here you go, Mark. Now you'll hear this one. A dentist shop with three doctors and 11 staff members. All staff members were recent hires. I'm teeing up the. The tricky part. [58:04] Justin: Cash balance. [58:04] Chad: Doctor's goal is to fund 60k a year profit chain. [58:09] Justin: All right, moving on. [58:11] Chad: Okay, so profit sharing, Justin, they've got to file 5000 500s. They've got to submit census data. They've got a new significant work there. [58:19] Mark: You're going, you're going sep. Huh? [58:21] Chad: I'm going sep. That was set up for a set. Hey, hey. [58:25] Justin: Because I'm a good salesperson. I don't think of. We can't do I want to in my funnel. [58:30] Mark: You're getting sued by the boogeyman [58:36] Chad: Painting company. Painting company. I'm a painting company. I've got. Shut up. Sign a form. [58:45] Justin: Do you have a pen? [58:47] Chad: Low wage earning folks. Two owners making really good money and looking to shelter as much as possible. So a painting company with 40 staff members, low wage earners, high turnover. Two owners making good money. [59:01] Justin: Well, are we leveraging carve outs or [59:03] Chad: not sure if that's where you want to go. [59:07] Justin: Well then I might be considering a cash balance plan. Otherwise I don't know the ages. So I don't know right now. You were not, you did not have enough. [59:18] Chad: I did not give you whether or not that will work out. Well, Mark, what do you think? [59:25] Mark: I don't know. You, you were pretty general there saying they want to shelter as much as possible or as reasonable as you wrote down. I just, my, my brain just went safe harbor match with a, with a one year wait [59:42] Chad: that was positioned for cash balance. The key, the key kind of indicator there was the low wage employees and the two. [59:52] Mark: That description was pretty bad. [59:54] Chad: Just gonna say I'm trying to move quickly through these. Mark. My goodness, It's. It's already 7:30 here. Okay, last one, last one. I'll tee this one up a bit. You have an owner only single member consultant, no employees. Their objective right now is significant tax savings. But they would like flexibility moving forward to pull it back. [1:00:27] Mark: Great. [1:00:28] Justin: No, not with that. So many different options. I mean, I'm saying, I mean you want to maximize. Yeah. [1:00:35] Chad: You want to maximize. [1:00:36] Justin: You got to go profit sharing. You got to go at that point if you don't want to commit to this. [1:00:39] Mark: So solo K with. [1:00:42] Justin: Yeah, with profit sharing. [1:00:44] Chad: So both. Both somewhat correct. That is the T up. It is a Solo K with profit sharing is the objective. When you look at an owner only plan, typically you are looking at a set or you're looking at a solo K. If they're an S corp, which I failed to mention, you're looking at a solo K because you want leaving [1:01:03] Mark: out minor details [1:01:07] Justin: a bad idea unless you're taking more than 220000 in net rev. [1:01:12] Chad: GG hit it solo. Solo K is it? Justin's saying 220000 because that allows you to maximize your profit sharing. [1:01:19] Justin: It doesn't actually. 270,000 allows you to maximize like just south of that. [1:01:24] Chad: But I know nobody's paying attention. There's a happy medium the two of you are providing, but that is a big one there for these solo type setups. I would have also accepted owner only DB where we're looking at maximizing the tax deductibility with no liability. [1:01:45] Justin: Is this going to be on the midterm? [1:01:47] Mark: Yeah. You did say flexibility and be able to pull it back. Now I know there's flexibility. When it's an owner only DB plan, you can make changes. But I, I didn't veer that way because of those specific details you laid out. [1:02:01] Chad: Webby, I will answer. No, this is not the 1960s but a defined benefit plan for an owner but only ease allows us to and an S corp two different metrics. [1:02:12] Justin: We can dial up and down the [1:02:14] Chad: W2 levers that we can pull to make it more attractive than a cash balance. Because I know that's where you were. [1:02:20] Justin: You should have consulted Webby first because we did not have all the facts to properly answer your question. [1:02:25] Chad: You guys are lovely audience sometimes, you know you do. Hey Mark Be. Before we we. We exit tonight, I have to ask how painful was this for you that we did 22 minutes of headlines and then we just around on topics for the remaining 40 minutes and. And we went over the 35 minute objective that we had in place. [1:02:49] Mark: Pain. No, this wasn't painful at all. This was, this was fantastic. That hour felt like 30 minutes. Which is awesome because I think when I envision our show. Let me get on the soapbox. Is that it's supposed to be more informal, it's supposed to be fun, it's supposed to be interactive. It's supposed to be us bantering, doing all that. I will say this JD really like he runs a tight ship. You know, like people think he's this free flowing guy because he doesn't wear underwear, sleeps naked, does all that. Like, but in reality, I mean He's a suit and tie, but behind the scenes, he's as corporate as it gets. I mean, look at his brother. I mean, did you see him? This guy owns the company. Straight. Straight lace guy shaves everything. So when you look at our show on a weekly basis or semi weekly, whatever. [1:03:43] Justin: I'm not sure of too many dudes who shave their pits. Tony. [1:03:46] Chad: I say what JD Is phenomenal at. I've been drinking a lot of the way, which. Which I realize in retrospect. And Mark, you have to drink for your James Douglas comment as well. [1:04:01] Justin: Yep. [1:04:03] Chad: He understands how many topics to throw into a show to make it fit. I was really excited for Love is Blind Confessions, and I was really excited for Lamer Game. And we don't even get a time. [1:04:16] Justin: No, hey, there is no link to the show now because we are. Well, as JD Says, the show ends when it ends. We. We are ending this on Lamer Game. Game. That was like my one biggest request, and I completely forgot about it. [1:04:29] Mark: A couple of things. One is JD has asked me to do that game probably four times in the past. [1:04:34] Justin: Like, no. [1:04:36] Chad: Well, no. [1:04:36] Mark: And every time we run out of time. [1:04:38] Justin: Okay, we're not running out of time. [1:04:40] Mark: Way more on this show than I have. [1:04:42] Justin: You know what we're gonna do? [1:04:43] Mark: We're gonna speed through this. [1:04:45] Chad: Okay. [1:04:45] Justin: Yes. We're gon right now. There's one more thing coming afterwards. Let's go do it. [1:04:50] Chad: Mark, bring us. Bring us out with Lamer Game. [1:04:53] Mark: I think we are. We are we doing trap art Champion? No. [1:04:55] Justin: Yes, we are. [1:04:58] Chad: Because I've got control and I'll pick it. Okay. [1:05:01] Mark: All right. It's been a while, boys. It's been a long time coming. [1:05:05] Justin: I've missed you. [1:05:06] Mark: I. I don't have a lot of good ideas, but there's been a few things a brewing in my head lately. I'll just start off real simple. Lamer game. Brushing your teeth while taking a shower. [1:05:23] Chad: Most ease in 100 game. Yeah, I couldn't be more game in that one. In fact, I leave my toothbrush in the shower often. [1:05:30] Mark: Yeah, me too. [1:05:32] Justin: It's very efficient. I've never done it. I have my process. You know, you wake up, you get your things going. [1:05:38] Mark: So I. I was normally a morning shower guy, right? But now I. I'm a night shower guy. And I brush my teeth before I go to bed. Usually I go take a shower and I'm in bed and I dude, I. Brushing your teeth in the shower. I feel like I brush longer. I think my dentist is happier Better. [1:05:55] Chad: I might take a floss in the shower. [1:05:58] Justin: So I have a razor in my shower. I have a razor in my drawer in the vanity. I have it in my. Like, to go like a travel bag. I think I might add it. A toothbrush to the shower now because of you, Mark. That's a brilliant idea. It's. [1:06:19] Chad: We all know something that Mark and I really enjoy baths and we enjoy showers. [1:06:28] Justin: Yep. [1:06:28] Chad: So if I can spend more time in the shower and accomplish another task. Yes. We were just trying to have a [1:06:34] Justin: casual little bath video. [1:06:39] Chad: There it is. [1:06:42] Mark: I'll also say this. I'm a guy who runs the water as I brush my teeth. I'm a water waster. So being in the shower, well, it's the same thing. So I'm actually probably saving water anyways. Next one. Next one. Being a person who has actually or actually does leave Yelp reviews. [1:07:04] Justin: I mean, bravo. [1:07:05] Chad: Thank you. [1:07:06] Justin: To those who do it. I'm not one of them. [1:07:10] Chad: I don't know how to answer this one, Mark. I'm gonna say. I'm gonna say lame, but I have done it maybe, maybe a dozen times, like, for those. [1:07:20] Justin: Brandon, tell me you got this one. Ain't nobody got time for that now. [1:07:24] Chad: Are they positive or negative? They're positive. I'm only doing it for a positive. But, like, when the service is really. You guys were actually here. Remember when the AC broke in our house and that company. Oh, I remembered it quickly. [1:07:38] Justin: I wasn't there for that. [1:07:39] Chad: I was the one. I wrote a helping. [1:07:41] Justin: You thought? [1:07:42] Chad: Yeah, I wrote a review that I was appreciative the fact that it was the owner that called me back, that how quickly they got out here was 100 plus degree. I will do it in that scenario. So I'm lame in general, but I have done it for exceptional service. [1:07:59] Mark: I. I just lost it, like. [1:08:00] Chad: Yeah. [1:08:01] Mark: I'm surprised Yelp is still around just because you go on there and sometimes I. I use it too, and I don't like that. I use, like, oh, let's go to this restaurant right here. And the first thing I do is check, make sure it doesn't have, like, two stars. All right, next question. [1:08:15] Justin: Last one, let's go. [1:08:17] Mark: Whoa. It's not the last one. It's not the last drinking water that's in a can. Lamborghini. [1:08:26] Chad: I'm lame. I mean, I've done it a lot. [1:08:31] Mark: Sorry, I just. I should specify not of the sparkling variety. [1:08:36] Chad: Like, just straight up spilled water out of it. [1:08:40] Justin: Yeah. I mean, liquid death. [1:08:44] Mark: Their one version is water In a [1:08:46] Chad: can, you know, And I didn't even go to liquid death, but that's hashtag. Would you not consider that sparkling? [1:08:54] Mark: No, they have a. [1:08:55] Chad: They have a straight up. [1:08:56] Justin: Just flat water. I buy it, and it's delicious. [1:09:01] Chad: Dude, I go to the store and [1:09:03] Mark: I grocery shop, but I buy one. Be like, on the way home, I'm gonna drink water, and I will only buy that one in a can, and [1:09:09] Justin: it makes me feel really cool. Box of water. [1:09:12] Mark: Oh, I have those too. [1:09:13] Justin: Yeah, but Rolling Rock counts. [1:09:16] Mark: All right, last one, last one, last one. Waving by on Zoom. [1:09:22] Chad: I do it every time. Okay. [1:09:25] Justin: Nice meeting you. I did it today after my meeting. [1:09:28] Chad: I usually don't wave, though. I put my hand up. If I think about. [1:09:32] Mark: I'm like, I mean, I know we still live in a remote Zoom world. I refuse. I will, like, make sure my hands are down, and I will wait till everyone's gone just to make sure I don't wave. [1:09:46] Chad: This could be one of those things like we talked about a week or so ago. Nice, Justin. Where I go, am I wrong? I think that maybe I'm wrong in this. I think that if you actually sent that poll out over everyone, they would tell you, like, this thing is lame. I still do it, though. [1:10:06] Justin: I don't think it's lame. [1:10:08] Mark: I think it's become a natural reaction [1:10:11] Justin: because you do it in person. Like, hey, I'll see you later. Why can't you do it on Zoom? [1:10:15] Chad: That was great meeting you guys. Yeah, I'm getting back later. [1:10:19] Mark: Yeah, it's still bad, so. But again, Justin, leaving, leaving a person, an in person meeting, would you, like, be like, okay, bye. [1:10:29] Justin: And then, no, normally I shake their hand, but I can't shake hand through the screen. [1:10:34] Chad: But I would do both, too, by the way. I'd be like, hey, it's been a pleasure. Like, if I'm across the table, because they may not want to shake hands. So if I do this and they don't raise their hand or put their hand out, shake no, move on, start doing gang signs. I don't know. All right, moving on. My, my. [1:10:50] Mark: Oh, shut up, Justin. [1:10:52] Justin: We gotta wrap this up. [1:10:53] Chad: He's got hockey tonight. He said. He even wrote in the text he wants time to play Fortnite before he goes. [1:10:58] Justin: Of course. You know, pew, pew, pew. We get on anyways. Chat bar champion. [1:11:05] Mark: Hey, hold on. [1:11:07] Justin: God damn it. [1:11:09] Mark: You know what they say. [1:11:12] Chad: Okay, way to finish it, Mark. [1:11:13] Justin: I really want to bring, like, I've always loved JD's graphic for to no per dope. But we need to bring back lamer game. This is just. He. [1:11:21] Mark: He has tried. He had like. [1:11:22] Justin: Okay. [1:11:23] Mark: To his credit. [1:11:24] Chad: The shame on you. [1:11:26] Justin: Yeah. [1:11:26] Chad: No. [1:11:26] Mark: Every time I'm ready to go and no. So by the way, some of these written down were from months ago, so they're not good. [1:11:35] Chad: But I'm. [1:11:35] Mark: I gotta keep a few in the [1:11:37] Chad: chamber so he just doesn't get to them. Like we didn't get to confession. Yeah, I get it. I get it. As. Yeah. [1:11:44] Justin: Yeah. [1:11:47] Chad: There's no doubt in my mind. Gigi gets my vote tonight. [1:11:53] Justin: He was solid. But I'm dropping on Webby. [1:11:57] Chad: Webby. Okay. Fully respect. [1:12:01] Mark: I'm gonna Mark. [1:12:02] Chad: You're the decision. You're the decision. [1:12:03] Mark: No. [1:12:03] Chad: Unless Brandon's voting. [1:12:05] Mark: Yeah, Brandon gets to choose. I'm gonna embrace nepotism and vote Devin because it was actually kind of funny from time to time. Devin did. [1:12:15] Justin: Maybe he was translating for jd. [1:12:18] Mark: I know everything was saying. It was all comments and it was pretty good. He did. He did a good job. And I'm gonna say, good job, Devin. But never have a four hour meeting with a financial advisor ever again. [1:12:30] Chad: Ever again. We call all of you guys and tell you that I didn't. [1:12:34] Mark: Are you surprised to hear that? [1:12:36] Chad: No. But here's what I'll say about. About Devin's efforts. I think that Devin, in helping me prepare the stats, realized. [1:12:46] Mark: Did you. [1:12:46] Justin: Did you win the plan, bud? [1:12:48] Chad: I was. I would. I was stressing and he's like, I gotta be active tonight. I gotta help Chad, Mark and JD Because Chad's losing his damn mind anyways. It's your choice, Brandon. You got three people to choose from. [1:13:05] Justin: Can I just choose jd? [1:13:07] Chad: No, but you can drink for saying jd. Yeah, you can't JD For. [1:13:13] Justin: Does it count for. If it's text. No messages that he didn't want to [1:13:18] Mark: put in the chat. [1:13:19] Chad: Yeah. [1:13:20] Justin: Get away. [1:13:20] Chad: Oh, shame on him. All right, is that. Am I included in that or just. [1:13:24] Mark: I gotta go GG then if I'm [1:13:26] Justin: just out of the chat bar. GG he was solid. [1:13:30] Chad: Mr. Greenfield, you rack up some points tonight. I have to say with. [1:13:36] Justin: Oh, wow, J.D. just put. No J.D. you don't get to do this. This is our show tonight. I'm sorry, you don't get to say who the CBC is. You don't get to say, show's over. You left us. We're orphans. Where is we get to do what we want? Look at Devin. JD Chats. Thanks for joining tonight, everyone. We will see you next time. The CBC is GG Show's over. [1:13:58] Mark: I think he's just making that up. [1:14:01] Chad: No, Devin's probably posting. Yeah, probably texting. All right, guys, I had fun. It may not have been the. The best, but I tell you what, I had a really. You know, I had a really. [1:14:15] Mark: We have. [1:14:15] Justin: We have done this twice. Retireholics as a whole used to suck way back in the day, too. We just. We haven't hit our stride yet. We will be good. [1:14:22] Chad: We just need 150 more shows to make this exactly. [1:14:25] Justin: We're gonna be all right. [1:14:27] Chad: There we go. All right, boys. [1:14:30] Mark: All of you, thank you for Brandon's showing up. [1:14:32] Chad: That makes me hurt a little bit every time you do that. Hey, Brandon, can you. [1:14:37] Mark: Can you take that image and actually put a beard on it so it's more like that? [1:14:44] Justin: Hey, I will say that the shows go by a lot quicker when you talk. [1:14:47] Chad: I'm thinking of shaving this. That it does, Justin. Yeah, I felt bad because, hey, let's be honest. [1:14:54] Mark: Leave the handlebars. [1:14:57] Chad: The confessions were. That was gonna be fun. Yeah, well, love is blind. Confessions, I think. [1:15:03] Mark: You know, I'm sure after J.D. after J.D. watches the tape, he'll be like, we should really do this every third Thursday. And I'll let these guys just run because it was so good. Well, we'll have an opportunity again. [1:15:15] Chad: No, thanks. I quit. [1:15:16] Justin: I. I feel differently about it. But, hey, good vibes only, you know? [1:15:20] Chad: Brandon, can you please play us out with some music? [1:15:22] Mark: Webby wins. Trap our champion for life. [1:15:28] Chad: Hey,