SECURE 2.0 Errors, Guideline's Growth & Plan Design Strategy

[0:00] JD: Me and the dealer. And all of a sudden the cards are coming as fast as they can come, you know, And I'm like sitting there with my stack of four or five hundred bucks and I'm just like, okay, bring it, man. I know, I know how, how I play my game. Like, I'm not afraid of your speed. And so I throw down 100 bucks on a bet and I get an 11. I'm like, damn straight. Double down time. Double down, lose. It happens again. Three hands later, 100 bucks. You think I'm going to go away from my no. 11? Double down. Lost it. And no joke, in three minutes time, I had lost all of my money. 500 bucks. And then my wife came walking back to the table. They looked at me, I looked at them. Massive shame. [0:45] Chad: I mean, you probably played as many hands in that three minutes as you did in the prior 20, though. [0:50] JD: It was bad. It was bad. [0:53] Mark: Chad, after the intro, I need to know what the heck you poured into that cup. [0:59] JD: What are you wearing? Breaking news. [1:04] Mark: A polo shirt? Hold on, J.D. hold on, Chad. Breaking news. You poured white claw into a glass and then you poured something on top of it. What did you just make? [1:16] Chad: I. I looked at all the beer in the fridge and I have all these seltzers that I want no more. And so I'm just mixing them all into a glass and I'm going to see what they turn out to be. [1:27] Justin: We need to tell the story about Josh's comment. [1:29] JD: Oh, my Lord. Oh, yeah. [1:31] Mark: Yes, that. No, but that, that comes later in the show. That's your, that's your mid true, Justin. [1:36] Justin: There we go. [1:37] Mark: There we go. Let's see how long we get pissed off. [1:40] JD: Three, three, four weeks ago, Brad and I sat down for a serious meeting and we decided, let's cut all the banter, let's cut all the back and forth. Let's just get straight to headlines. Not have any. No one cares about our little comments between each other. [1:56] Mark: And no chat. Chat bar. Chat bar. Please chime in on that. [2:00] JD: Yeah, let's start over. Let's pretend like you didn't hear any of that. And Brandon's little video is going. And I go in with breaking news. Thank you. Do it again, Mark. [2:14] Mark: Oh, I will [2:18] Chad: mute. Mark. [2:19] JD: Mark, mute him, mute him. Breaking news Now. Listen up, people. The well regarded and highly respected pension oversight of objective professionals has done an in depth survey and concluded with utmost certainty. You ready for this, Chad? With utmost certainty that the integrity of the wheel of ice cannot be challenged and that 100% of the time you it lands on the retireholic that deserves it the most. These are undisputed facts. So let's spin it and let's see who deserves it most tonight. [3:00] Chad: I know what's going to happen now. I'm just going to pop it right now. [3:05] JD: Last week, I wish there was one that all three of your heads on it. [3:13] Chad: Every time I say it's going to [3:14] Mark: be now, if that's not, like, legitimately rigged, then I don't know what is right there. Dude, you know exactly what you do it. Oh, Mark pisses off JD So JD sends Brandon a text. Yeah, all right, cool, guys, seriously, let's [3:30] JD: see if we can get some of those little panels on the pie to have all three of these guys heads on it. Major secure 2.0. So fun to say that these days. So fun to say that. Error puts ketchups in jeopardy at the American. No, American Retirement Association's graph says he's giving us all the info on this thing. Did you guys read this? Did you have time? [3:52] Justin: Yeah. [3:53] Chad: Yeah. [3:54] JD: So what do you think, Justin? What's going on here? [3:57] Justin: That's what I think. [3:58] JD: Really? [3:59] Mark: No, Come on. Mistakes happen. It's okay. [4:02] Justin: It just does affects, you know, millions of Americans ability to potentially save. [4:06] JD: Does it, though? Contributions. [4:08] Mark: It's gonna get fixed. It's fine. [4:11] Justin: I know that comment about it taking three years to do secure. Oh, oh, 1.0. [4:17] JD: Okay, sorry. [4:18] Mark: I'm getting the buttons right now. [4:20] JD: So, Brandon, I'm with Guy Hawker. Like, it's not a big deal, though. I kind of was really excited to read it. Like, they got me with the headline, and I got in there going, oh, what's wrong? Like, what did those nerds figure out at the American Retirement Station? Because you know that when they dig through that stuff, there's going to be things that don't line up that don't make sense. And when I read this one, I'm like, okay, so this is clearly a clerical error. Clearly, we could get this thing fixed. It's clearly. It's not going to have an impact on anything. [4:50] Justin: I mean, does it need to get fixed? It doesn't get fixed by 2024. [4:54] JD: I mean, according to Brian Graff. According to Brian Graff. Then maybe I'm misquoting him. Then we're. We're screwed. We have to deal with it. [5:02] Chad: Well, did you. [5:03] Justin: That's stupid. [5:03] JD: You old people. [5:04] Chad: I thought it was funny in the article. Like, it did make me laugh like that. I forget exactly what was said, but essentially Brian said, we don't even know if we're going to have to enforce it. The treasury, he said, I'm not even sure the treasury is going to have to enforce it. So they made us come back and be like, look, we suck at getting this passed and it took a while to get it fixed. So we're just not going to enforce. We're going to sidestep it for the time being. Who knows? I mean there's no way it's going to stop people from making catch up contributions next year. [5:36] JD: And there's nothing, there's no way that you send it back through the whole rigmarole to get like a sentence put back in or something. [5:44] Chad: I don't see that's where, I don't know the legal side of this. It might not just be. There's no way they do that. If that is the legal steps to make something, then they have to do it that way. The question is, is it going to take months or years to get done? Are they going to be able to push that through? [6:01] JD: I'm with Guy, we'll move on. It is a snore, but it, but it is funny to think about like, oh, some little mistake and then it's, is it that big of a pain in the ass? I would have thought there'd be precedent here and that this happens all the time and that they just go, oh yeah, yeah, we made a mistake. Everyone understands we've made the adjustment, no big deal. But anyways, that was fun. And Brian Graff. I mostly picked that article because I was hoping Brandon could play Harry Potter beer Butterbeer, but didn't set that up [6:33] Mark: really well, did you, did you see, did you see who contributed at the bottom to that article? [6:38] Chad: Butterbeer. [6:40] JD: Yummy. Butterbeer. Yum. Was it Sully? [6:45] Mark: Well, no, Sully wrote it. It was, but at the bottom there it said contributing person. One of them was Nevin and I'm like, wait a second. He's still keeping his hands involved in some of [6:58] JD: the. [7:00] Mark: But if I was him, I would have just been like, let me hop in my Mustang, I'm out. [7:04] JD: Get out of Dodge in 2022. This R care is that. I guess. [7:12] Chad: Yeah, that's definitely a drinker. [7:14] Mark: That counts big time. [7:17] JD: Added 14500 plans in 2022. This is through 401k wire. I was gonna not send you the article and ask you guys to guess who this record keeper was. If I had, would you have been [7:30] Chad: able to guess 100%. [7:33] Mark: I don't know if I would have said that first. No, they would have been in like my top five. But not first. [7:40] JD: Well, it was last week or the week before that. We were talking about the Carson Group and their deal. [7:46] Chad: Yup. [7:47] JD: With the deal with Vessel. Yes. No. When I was talking about human interest and I was diving deep into their numbers and their success and I went on that long rant. We were shocked. We were shocked at how they were going to sell like 12,000 plans a year. And here it is live and in color. This actually happened and it caught my attention. Before this article came out, I saw a guideline promo and they claimed that they had north of 35,000 plant sponsor clients. And I was like, yes, waiting for it. Samson, you gotta be an insider to know how dope Samson's comment was right there. Yeah, done that many times. I said, wow, what the fuck, 35,000. And I was, how did they get to that? Like last time I checked there at like 12 or something. Well, looks like I just found the answer to my question. Like they went fucking nuts last year. I'm. We have to stop here a little bit. You guys have to be blown away. Like this is a big dent in the marketplace. [8:50] Chad: Massive. And you saw through that article, they said the majority of the business came from the states that are forcing mandates, retirement vehicles. And that's where they're getting Cal Savers. [9:00] JD: Is your answer again to this? [9:02] Chad: Well, it's one of the components we said. They said. I forget what the percentage was, but it was a high percentage from Oregon, Illinois and California. [9:10] JD: Yeah. [9:11] Chad: Now they're so tied in, in that micro market space and startup space, they chew up a lot of that, that small business. And it just goes on to tell you when you look at they said 2 billion in in contributions last year. Well, do simple math. I know there wasn't 37,000 during that year. So go a little bit lower. Divided by 30, 32,000, you're looking at about $60,000 of annual flow per plan right there. Like these are. [9:40] JD: Well, they also. [9:41] Justin: Startups of the majority of them were. [9:43] JD: They said this very article that was like 90% of them are startups, right? [9:46] Mark: Yeah, they're. They're siphoning plans through gusto too. [9:50] Chad: I'm talking about contributions. Talking about contributions. [9:54] JD: But both those things line up. The 60 can flow and then them self admitting that 90 of this is startups. Your points to the states that are having these mandates are all fuel. This fire mark brings on the fourth one, which we're all aware of, which is they and they should be applauded for this they successfully partnered with Gusto and some other payroll companies to actually make a dent there. So goodness of them. I really am eating crow here, to be honest with you. Like I, I remember seeing guideline ads in New York when I was traveling there just on little like bus stop signs and, and I was like, who these? Like there's no way they're going to, to pull this off. And now here I am a few years later and they've got north of 35, 000 plans. I have been proven wrong. And regardless of whether they're small or not. [10:41] Justin: Sorry, I thought you're gonna keep going or I thought you were done. I don't think you have to eat Croatia quite yet. I mean if we there was obviously last year the state run plans helped out with that a lot and yeah, maybe they had a change in their model but let's see what happens in the next two years. We know through just word of mouth and whatnot, their service is terrible. Are we going to. Jim, I think mentioned in the, in the comments too. [11:01] JD: Like how many are they going to [11:02] Justin: lose and are we going to be able to clean up all that stuff or we, you know, it's just really. [11:05] Chad: We're going to have to. Right? [11:07] JD: Well, it's not like me to be positive on the disruptors, but there's help. They're helping the coverage gap. [11:16] Chad: They are. [11:17] JD: Shouldn't we. [11:17] Chad: For sure. [11:18] JD: Shouldn't we be. [11:19] Justin: Because we're not doing it. [11:20] Chad: Call it. Call a spade a spade. They're a district, a distribution channel and right now that distribution channel is for the payroll companies and others and they're doing a lot of business because of that. And I think in due time, much like the state plans, you're going to see many of those. Much like the pooled employer plans that need more, that want more, that want customization, that want knowledge, that want service. And they're gonna end up rolling out of those kind of groups. Now are they going to continue to be a distribution channel and bring on significant volume? Yeah, I don't think guidelines going away. [11:53] JD: A couple things. First of all, love Samara's jumping in on some design thoughts. Guy Hawker and I I feel like are from the same mother tonight. Like I feel aligned with him. Um, he says why are we giving all that? We always give them shit when they're crushing it. Like I'm not who's giving them shit? [12:15] Chad: Giving them shit. [12:16] JD: No one is checks automatic data processing. [12:21] Chad: These are, those are proven shit shows. J.D. [12:25] JD: there you go. So you're saying they're shit shows. I think I'm aligned with Guy right now going, like, really, guys? Shit shows. They're successful businesses that are crushing it, Selling a lot of business, making a lot of money, and by the way, helping the coverage gap at the same time. And we sit around going, oh, they're not going to have. They're not going to keep their clients. They're going to, hey, Guy. They have a shitty business model. Oh, wow, wow. Like is that. [12:50] Chad: Guy and JD Give your sales guys the opportunity to sell plans for $8 a participant and $40 a year and see how many fricking plans we bring in. [13:00] Justin: Yeah. [13:00] Chad: And that's with no benchboard billboards in New York. They're buying the business with. With bare bones, minimum costs. [13:08] JD: And they're using tech guideline. And human interests are not cheap from the client's perspective. [13:14] Chad: Guideline absolutely is. [13:16] JD: Those are false statements. Like they still gotta chuck out change to have those things. [13:22] Chad: I would disagree. In comparison to the rest of the [13:24] JD: marketplace, it'll be this. At least don't chat directly to us. How dare you. 40 comment. [13:30] Chad: $49. [13:32] Justin: Everybody is. [13:33] JD: That's what guideline is. [13:34] Chad: Yeah. $49 a month and $8 a month for each active participant. No transaction fees, no termination fees. That includes 5,500, Brett. [13:46] JD: 500 and then 90 bucks a year. Whatever that math. [13:49] Chad: Oh, and don't forget, that's record keeping. And so go ahead and open up a bundled shop and charge that and see what we can bring on. [13:56] JD: But I. But I still do believe that we should be less. Less talking and more learning from their success. Is my kind of Chad's nuggets. Right. [14:08] Chad: I want to learn from their distribution. I don't say that I'm absolutely on. In agreement with you there. And I think we have, and I think we are. We learn from the good. I'm not saying we want to do the administration like they do. [14:20] JD: Do you guys. Do you all know who Shlomo Benazi is? [14:26] Chad: The. Yeah. [14:27] JD: Recognize that guy? [14:29] Chad: Yep. [14:30] Mark: He's my best friend. [14:31] JD: When you hear his name, what do you think of him, Chad? Like, what if. What has the industry taught you of this man? [14:38] Chad: My very first thought of him is Voya because I used to listen to him talk through Voya channels back when I first started in the space. [14:47] JD: Well, shame on you because he's much more than just Voyager. [14:50] Chad: Well, I'm just saying where I got connected to him. But over the years, I've listened to a lot of his. His content and he is way too Smart for me. But I really like his accent and [15:00] JD: his whole you kind of look, you [15:02] Mark: kind of look the same. [15:05] JD: His whole, his whole spiel is behavioral finance. Okay. Like that's where he, that's what he spends his time thinking about is how do we as a financial services industry communicate with. And that doesn't mean just verbally or through like tech stuff, but in all facets to 401k participants, investors in general, and help them understand things that we all understand about compounding and putting a little more and budgeting properly and all these types of things. And so he's paid by the big companies to kind of for that intelligence and that guidance and the study that he does in that space looks like, doesn't look like it is true that he also wants to supplement that with his own business and God bless him. So he's built this thing called Pension Plus. I believe it's at Pension Plus Dot. Can you say that? Yeah, I don't know. And there's not much there to figure out what he's actually created. I think it's more of a wait list thing right now. Or you can kind of put your name in. But this deal with One America and I'm guessing he'll look to do more deals with record keepers. So they've blessed it, it looks to me and I'm guessing here, but to be a thing where you put in a bunch of your specific information and then it, it helps you determine how much you can draw from your savings on a monthly basis. And then I think in this case works with One America. And I'm making some guesses here to have that actual distribution take place. So imagine he does a deal with another record keeper down the line. The same thing can happen there. You go online, you say, hey, I've got $500,000 at record keeper X. Do I drink for that? And I'm 72 years old and I'm ready to start tapping in and getting a monthly retirement paycheck. This is my risk tolerance, this is my situation. Whatever those questions they ask you. And then they'll work with that record Keeper X to send me a check for 750 bucks a month. Don't know my math on all that. How valuable do you think that is? [17:13] Justin: The participant, great. But what about advisors? How are they going to feel about that? Are they going to be managing the, the assets or are they going to be, are they going to stay at One America through retirement? [17:23] JD: Well, they would like this because the assets in theory would stay there. Everyone's Got to tap into their money some at some point, right? [17:32] Chad: Yeah. [17:32] Justin: But would they prefer to go to ira? [17:34] JD: Oh, roll it over. Yeah, yeah, you're right. I didn't see her going well. [17:37] Chad: I think the, the thought, at least early on, is that this will be heavily utilized by people who wouldn't be leveraging an advisor anyways. [17:47] Justin: Right. [17:47] JD: Okay. [17:47] Mark: All right. [17:48] Chad: The folks, the folks who get left behind. We've talked about it for the last, I don't know, maybe two years now on and off on the show. We've spent so much time as an industry focusing on putting money in, in the accumulation phase, and we've spent very little talking about the decumulation phase. Now, there are individuals out there that always have, but, but we've spent so much time trying to gather money that we really haven't focused heavily as an industry on how to help people maintain that money post their working career. And we've seen that now for three or four years. A lot of effort, a lot of money, a lot of insight going into that space. It's exciting to me. It's. I and personally, J.D. i think it's going to get more people saving, too. I think more people will be comfortable in the fact that I can get some sort of guaranteed income in, in the future, and they may be more likely to sock away money knowing that it can be set in a program like this. [18:44] JD: I think it's nice to have an alternative to all the talk of the guaranteed income in the annuities. And as far as I know, this has nothing to do with that, although I guess it could partner with it down the line. But so that, to me, in its simplest form, this is an alternative to someone who's now getting some advice on, hey, this is how much you can pull from your account and we'll set it up for you versus going with the guaranteed type of annuitized type of stuff. So. But maybe I'm missing some of that or his, his plans for the future as well. [19:19] Chad: Yeah, I want to learn more. I couldn't find any more on what it actually is, how it's structured, what it's going to operate as. [19:25] Mark: Question that comes to mind too is obviously in this particular instance, one, America is an early adopter of Shlomo's, you know, his pension plus. But there will be other record keepers who look at this, engage the success or what they're doing and what they can change to either mimic something like this if it's adopted at a high rate, or other people are going to sign on. So Maybe he could just kind of start checking off multiple record keepers. [19:58] JD: Right, I'll back up Hackler on this. Roby with wisdom. That's not really. [20:04] Mark: I'm saying, I'm saying obvious things but what I'm. Oh, I guess what I'm saying out loud is, you know, we have seen to Chad's point. A lot of other things come and go real quick. So is this another throw it on the wall and see if it sticks approach or is this really something different? Because I know it says first of its kind, right? So that anytime you see something like that you're like well that's cool, that's something different. But I really, you know, when you dig into it like well just how different is it really? Because our industry doesn't really have that much. That gets crazy different. It's not like earth shattering stuff. [20:39] JD: I have some potentially negative, pessimistic thoughts that I probably shouldn't share. But I think if you've got a big 401k balance and I don't know what big means but let's say $700 million. Sure. A million, 2 million and upwards. It's a hacks point, 40k like so let's think about what big ones are not the 40k. They might probably won't use something like this. They're going to work with an advisor rollover to something just in general, you know the map. Most, most of them. And so then if you look at the rest of them and we, we sell plans these days where if you have, if the plan has an average account balance of 75k that's a good average account balance, let alone 100k. But so think of the ones that have 200k, 100k, I won't even go lower. And what this month, 300 bucks goes [21:35] Chad: a long way towards the time what [21:38] JD: this monthly check looks like to them. It's going to be pretty depressing. Like again I'm not doing the math. It's like yes, you've signed up for the Shlomo whatever plus and we will send you a check every month for $23.86 and you're like well okay, this [21:55] Chad: is stupid but JD, you're used to buying Lambos like that, that's, that's meaningful for someone who saved up $40,000 over their whole career. And then to see that they're going to have some sort of, even if it is small, they're living off much less and all I like, I like [22:11] JD: to call you wrong. [22:13] Chad: I am once again asking for your Financial support. [22:17] JD: I get that the non lambo owning person would look at the 40k and their statement and go sick. I save 40k and good for them, that's great. But when they see the monthly check that that 40k is converted to, they're going to go, motherfucker. What? And so, so then if this, if this, and I'm making up some shit here, but if this program doesn't work for the big account balances and it's not really that sexy for the small account balances, where does it take off and succeed? But I don't know. Shlomo's far smarter than me. I. I reached out to Shlomo long before I saw this article. This a few weeks ago. And I asked him to be. He wanted to be a guest on the show. He kind of gave me a bunch of different answers that were basically different. Different versions of I'll call you, don't call me. So we'll see. Sherry Fitz. Sherry Fitz has a live event happening tomorrow. Are you ready to take over the digital world like a boss in 2023? Robey, can you do impressions? Can you do a Sherry Fitz impression of that intro right there? That title for me? [23:31] Mark: No. [23:32] JD: Okay. January 27, 2023. That's tomorrow, people. Two to 3:30. Sherry. West coast time, I'm assuming. And it is live via zoom. [23:47] Mark: Eastern time, Eastern Time. [23:49] JD: Okay? 2:00pm Eastern, 11:00am Pacific. And if you're a. Okay, boomer out there, what, what this means is you just go to Sherry's LinkedIn page. Just go to her LinkedIn, to her profile right around that time. You'll see the link, you'll see the ability to do it. So I know a lot of you boomers are going to be like, where's the. Where's the code? Where do I go? Where's the website? Help me. It's on LinkedIn, you dumbass. Go to Sherry's profile. You'll find it. I was. I was talking to you too, Chad, because I know you want. [24:26] Mark: No, Chad loves those QR codes, so he's good. [24:30] Chad: I asked JD to put them on our business card. [24:32] Mark: I know, dude, we all know you were so offended when we said we didn't like that. [24:40] JD: Actually, you know, we should do something from the heart. We recommend that you tune into Sherry's thing because if you haven't seen her. [24:48] Mark: No, jd. [24:49] Chad: Jd. [24:50] Mark: We endorse it. [24:51] JD: We endorse it. [24:52] Chad: And you just said from the heart. Who do you think gave me this heart? [24:55] JD: Yep. [24:56] Mark: Right? I got mine on my mind, right There. [24:58] JD: I would say that is why we endorse Sherry. Mine is up in my closet. Is because she doesn't just. Shouldn't just give you PowerPoints with bullet points and kind of bullshit perspectives. Everything she delivers to you is very thought through. It's tested, it's original. There's a lot of. I say there's passion behind it and a lot of those hoorah kind of social media kind of marketing people have a lot of fake passion to share is legit. Like shares is legit. It's for this industry. It's no bullshit. It's valuable. You walk away with tons of Chad's nuggets and so check that out. Tomorrow, 2pm Eastern. [25:43] Chad: Yeah, true. [25:44] Mark: I guess we shouldn't say we endorse it unless she's okay with that because that could be like bringing her brand name down. [25:51] Chad: I'll be there. [25:51] JD: I think she's all right. Tesla shares pop over 9% on better than feared earnings results. This is a. From that website you see there. This is an article. Yes, from them. I bring this up because Roby had, had told us we should all buy Tesla. And it's been, it's had some rough times since then. More on that later. Stay tuned people. Drunk stock. [26:23] Chad: Yes. [26:25] JD: But yeah, it's popping off now. According to Elon, Tesla is primed into 2023 to like sell like 2 million cars or something or. Massive problem. 2 million cars this year. [26:42] Mark: I really think he should send me one for what I've done for him and having people invest. [26:47] JD: Well, I wanted to ask you guys that so we'll save the financials for later. Are you all fans of the Tesla car? And has any of you put your hands on the steering wheel and hit that little electric gas pedal? Rob says no. Justin, have you, have you driven one? And what was your assessment? Your thoughts? [27:08] Justin: I think the car's freaking awesome. They're starly, huh? The construction of the car is dog. At least on the the model Y's. But why do you say that? [27:19] Chad: Why do you say that? [27:21] Justin: Oh geez. The whole manufacturing on it's just terrible. [27:23] JD: Like, like things are falling off. [27:26] Mark: Hey, Justin. Justin. Without trying to act like an engineer, is the car cool or not? [27:34] JD: Yeah. [27:35] Justin: Oh, talking about no. I think the tech is freaking sweet. [27:38] Mark: I will say this. There are some, some Teslas that people or 100 grand. [27:42] Justin: If you're gonna buy a car for that much, that thing better be manufactured perfectly. I think you shouldn't have the hood be higher on one side and lower on the other side. You shouldn't have the dash falling off [27:52] JD: and hashtag, nerd alert. [27:55] Chad: I've not seen any of that anywhere. [27:58] Mark: I mean, I've seen the ones that people like. It just takes them off cliffs and they crash and stuff. But other than that, I think the car is awesome. [28:05] JD: Wow. You and Diane are tied up. She just sent us. [28:09] Mark: Yeah, but dude, the one that happened out here, right down there, the way here on. On Highway 1, they. They did do. The whole family survived and they arrested the guy and now they're saying maybe it wasn't his fault. So, like, there's a whole little story going on there with that forgotten Tesla. [28:24] JD: We should probably give it some context because in California, you see a lot of them. Like, they're up. Oh my God. [28:33] Mark: When I drop. When I drop my daughter off at school every morning, it's. And they're all. By the way, it's either white or like red. It's like, Tesla, Tesla, Tesla. And then my shitty car. Tesla, Tesla, Tesla. It's. It's mind boggling. [28:47] JD: But I'm assuming you don't see a lot of them around Chad's neighborhood, do you? [28:53] Chad: There's. There's two in the town here, but it's a town of 600 people. Go. That's pretty solid. [29:00] Mark: I think Elon takes it. [29:02] JD: All I know is that we have a straightaway right by my house here. And one of my son's friend's dad had one and he wanted to show it to me and he goes, here, you want to drive it? You want to drive it? Take it, take it. And he was in the passenger seat and we get on the straightaway and he goes, go ahead, you know, put your. Put your foot down on the pedal. And I've driven really gnarly sports cars that come at a very high ticket price before. I've never felt that kind of spaceship takeoff. [29:34] Justin: Oh, it's insane. [29:35] JD: It's a different feel, right? Like it's. [29:38] Justin: Well, because it's just direct to the pedal, you know, you're not having to go through like the engine and combustion. All that together wheel. [29:43] Chad: Well, it's. Have you. I. I took off in one. J.D. and insanity. [29:47] Mark: You're talking about wasting time on banter. [29:49] JD: J.D. [29:49] Mark: you're not frustrated by this? [29:51] Chad: It was whiplash, man. Like, it. [29:53] JD: My. [29:54] Chad: I felt like my cheeks were shaking as I hit the back of the chair. It was insane. [29:58] JD: Well, that. I think we're gonna mix things up then. I'll do the Midro. Welcome to the show. Nobody. Thanks for not being here. Nobody okay. Took it care of for you, Justin. [30:12] Chad: Thanks. [30:12] JD: And we will go straight to drunk stock tips. [30:19] Mark: I've had one beer. [30:23] Chad: You also had a strange. Fair enough. [30:27] Mark: I don't count those, Chad. Right. [30:29] Justin: I had one beer. [30:35] JD: Brandon has cautioned me on not taking you all through every single stock that Mark has advocated for or told you to sell. But I'll just hit a few here. I'll give you an update. Right. You want updates, I'm assuming chat bar. He told you buy Netflix at 199. It's at 364.87. [30:54] Mark: Why didn't I buy it? [30:57] JD: That's an 83.4% gain there. He told you to buy Apple at 142. It's up 143. Yeah. 143.96. He told you by Twitter. We all know the story there. You crushed it. You know, Elon took over. Elon bought it. You killed it. I think that was like a 24 gain or something. Home Depot at 269. It's at 313.81. He told you to sell Peloton because Peloton sucks. And. But now they're up just a hair. They're up from 11 when you told them to sell it. They're at 11.8. Laird, you crushed it with a 42.86. Advice for us to sell on that. Starbucks is up 12.1% since you told us to buy it. Bird is down. It would have saved people 20%. Disney, you said buy at 90. It's at 109.7. That's a 21.89. Okay, use. Actually, when you said Disney, you told us, quote, this place is like crack cocaine for kids. That should be their tagline. Why wouldn't you buy this? You're very confident in all this, so [32:10] Mark: why do you have notes, Man? Don't track this stuff. [32:13] JD: The only one is who's got notes? Did I get something wrong? No. The only one you've steered us wrong on is me having notes. Yeah, I got to check this. It was Tesla, which I mentioned. At 238. You told us to buy it. You're a fan of elon. It's at 160.27, so that's perfect. [32:31] Mark: Now you just buy more. [32:33] JD: Right? Thank you. But what we'd like to ask you today, this company has a market cap of $218 billion, just north of 37. I was gonna. I was gonna say the word price to earnings ratio checks me. [32:50] Mark: I don't even know what that is [32:51] JD: the price earnings ratio. It's how you value a company. [32:55] Chad: I've just. Come on. [32:56] Justin: I'm just. [32:57] Mark: Yeah. [32:58] JD: The net income for 2000, playing the role a little bit, was 5.8 billion. The stock has gone pretty up and down in the past year. It's had lows of 429 and highs of 60. Where is it today? I gotta look it up. Back in 2018, though, the stock traded south of 200. Thank you. Drum roll. Costco. Oh, you can buy. [33:23] Mark: Okay. If Disney. If Disney is crack cocaine for kids, Costco's crack cocaine for adults. Okay. [33:33] JD: Do you have a card? [33:35] Mark: Do I have a card? [33:37] Chad: Yeah. Where do you think? [33:39] JD: Okay. [33:40] Justin: Okay. [33:40] Mark: But timeout. I don't fall for their tricks, and I don't get the upgraded car where you get all the cash back and all those things. Okay. I stick with the lower price card just in case. I just don't feel like going there, and I don't get up my full cash back because I don't want to deal with customer service. Okay. [33:56] JD: Are you able to click on the one year instead of the one day? Well, Mark's talking. I don't know. Maybe not. Sorry, Mark. Go on. [34:03] Mark: So I think, and I can't recall who it was, there was another company that we did some quick evaluation on, and I. I hold a lot in terms of. Now, again, I only hear this through media outlets and maybe some people that have worked there or know people who work there, but knowing a little bit about the company, how they treat their people, to me, is very important. Okay. And what I've learned from, again, just very minimal information, but is Costco treats their employees very well. [34:38] Justin: They. [34:39] Mark: They pay them a lot. They. They do a lot of things right for the employees. And also, they've never once and will never, ever raise the price of their hot dog plus soda, combination of A$50 or whatever it is. [34:56] JD: I don't. You're fine with it. You're fine when they raise your subscription prices, but just don't touch the hot dog. [35:02] Mark: Well, I don't even need the hot dogs. But I'm just saying that is commitment. Okay? And all I can say is every time I go to Costco, it is like you got to be ready to potentially get hit by a cart or hit someone else with a cart or. It's. It's aggressive, it's loud, it's very chaotic. People have full carts all the time overflowing with stuff. So in my mind, I'm stuffing the cartoon and I'm saying this is the buy. No doubt in my mind. [35:33] Chad: Now that we've gone through that, can I say. I think I. I think I counted close to 15 for Mark and 5 for J.D. i'm pretty sure that that stands for Cost Company and the CO on the back end is short for that. [35:50] Justin: Find out. [35:52] Chad: So I think you guys might need to handle a whole bottle chat bar. [35:56] JD: Let us know what you think. [35:57] Mark: I. I disagree for obvious reasons. [36:01] Chad: Researching. Because they started as Cost Company and changed the name to Costco. [36:10] Mark: But that's not an acronym. [36:12] JD: Acronym. [36:13] Justin: Yeah, that. [36:14] JD: They're just shortening it. [36:16] Chad: Okay. [36:17] JD: I feel like I could come up with a few others. [36:19] Justin: Costco Wholesale Corporation trading as Costco. [36:22] Chad: I mean we've talked about abbreviations. Counting in there. I would consider that an abbreviation. [36:28] Justin: Abbreviation? [36:28] JD: What Abbreviations? [36:29] Justin: We've never done that, have we? [36:31] Chad: Okay, all right. [36:34] JD: Even more reason to buy quiet market. I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm on with you. Of course. Hacklers in the chat are going, drink, drink. [36:44] Chad: You guys, you still owe us drinks for not abiding by secure 2.0. [36:48] JD: Let me ask. [36:49] Justin: You got to get the booze. [36:50] JD: Let me ask you guys this. I don't. I don't go to Costco. So it's been a long time since I've stepped foot in one of those places. I go to super posh grocery stores down the street where we pay extra and it feels good to pay extra. When you go to Costco these days, you buy the Kirkland brand. Right? And I was told through friends I'm just based this on vodka. But I'm assuming it's other things too, that behind the Kirkland label is actually like really dope brands. You just don't realize it. Have you heard this before? [37:22] Chad: Yeah. [37:23] Justin: Golf balls used to be pro V's. [37:25] JD: No. [37:25] Mark: So that's those balls and they came out for just a short period of time. They were four piece golf balls that were made at the same plant that the. The. The Titleist balls. I see. I don't know if that one counts either. Now I'm scared. But yeah, that now they. But they anyways affordable for the. The common family and person. J.D. sorry. There's a lot of reasons to like Costco especially. Yeah, you. You could like literally buy a TV during the Super Bowl. People do this all the time. 75 inch TV and then watch the super bowl because you have a small TV and then return it the next day. They don't even ask you why. They're just like, okay, you did that [38:03] Justin: with a mattress like six Months later. [38:05] Mark: That's disgusting. That's disgusting. They let you return food when it's [38:09] JD: open for the person who doesn't go in there. It used to be promote. It used to be sold itself based on bulk. Like, you'd go and you'd buy like, [38:16] Mark: oh, it's still that way. [38:17] JD: Is it still that way? [38:18] Chad: Like, yeah, you're getting cases of beer are 36 beers instead of 30 beers. Like, big everything is a little bit extra. [38:26] JD: I'd imagine this pretty popular out in Missouri. [38:30] Chad: Hey, I gotta. I have to drive to St. Louis to get Costco. We have. We have Sam's Club here. [38:35] JD: Okay. Similar kind of thing, though. [38:37] Chad: Yeah, Same concept. [38:39] JD: Is there weird things that you can buy at Costco? Like. Like what is the products run? Is it everything? [38:47] Chad: There's a. There's a 400, 000 diamond wedding ring for sale at Costco. Yeah. Could you imagine telling your spouse, I spent $400,000 on our wedding ring and I. I bought it from Costco. I thought, I feel like it carries the same weight. [39:00] JD: You could buy caskets from Costco. [39:03] Chad: Buy a 401K. They were. They were. They were wheeling and dealing 401Ks a few years ago. [39:07] JD: Do you remember our old guest Chad Parks was behind that? [39:11] Chad: Oh, yeah, yeah. [39:11] JD: Remember that? The ubiquity guy. [39:14] Mark: Chad, if you're calling us out for Costco, you're saying it a lot. Just so you know, because you guys [39:18] Chad: said it was not. Okay, okay. All right. [39:21] JD: You've all heard it here. Robe guy says, bye Costco. [39:26] Chad: I'm in my TD Ameritrade. [39:28] Mark: I. I will say this, that that counts, Chad. That it's pretty high up there in terms of the price. Surprised to see what the stock price was, but not to. Not to worry, it's going to go higher. [39:40] JD: Fair enough. Fair enough. Okay, and then. [39:42] Chad: Hold on. [39:42] Mark: Run that. Run the clips of the disclosures. [39:47] JD: Okay. Yeah. The disclosure is if you do not follow. [39:52] Mark: That's my disclosure. Yeah. [39:54] JD: Okay. Chad, you've. You've walked the halls of Sage View. You've worked with some of these advisors at Sage View. I'm sure the boys have to. Seiji tees up a new financial education platform. This is from our friends at the national association of Plan Advisors. Why do I bring this up? Here we go again. Everyone is focused on. Yes, for lack of a better term, monetizing the participant. And God bless them when it's the advisor firms. In my mind, every time I'm pushing against this kind of stuff, it's when it's the record keepers or the large Fortune 500 companies that are sliding in to do the business? No. Here's an actual advisor shop working to build their own and bring it to market. Put someone in charge of it. Carrie Woods. And so anyways Chad, you work with these guys. Is this a good move for them and do you think their advisors think this is an opportunity? [41:00] Chad: I, I guess my challenge would be what's the negative money spent? Perhaps is the only negative there? Yes, I think it's a fantastic idea. It's, it's where we, we need to be going as an industry. Not the monetizing side but the servicing side, helping participants with what they actually need. Remember I've said for years how to spend their next dollar is not always in the 401k. They need financial education, they need wellness tools. And so I would, if I'm in that space where I have that large of a group of advisors that have this many 401k plans, I'd be doubling down on that side of things then. [41:37] JD: I've said this before. I feel like sometime now or in the future, if you're an advisor, you may lose a client to like a stage view and you'll ask the client, why did you leave? I've been doing a bang up job. I've been showing up for fiduciary review meetings and they're going to say, oh well Sage, you came in and they said they can help us not only with the 401k plan, but they can help our people with retirement readiness and they can help them with financial planning, budgeting, mortgages, home car insurance, all that kind of stuff, financial planning. And so. And you're going to go, oh, I lost that. That could become the norm. And so I like to see companies like Sageview realizing that and ramping up their solutions. And I think every advisor should be looking at how they can do something similar whether through partnership or whether through proprietary solutions or whatnot. So we've talked about it. This to me when I put these articles up and I want to talk about again, to me it's just proof that this is happening and it's the writings on the wall. [42:47] Chad: What's interesting that I heard from you there jd, which we hadn't really talked about with, with much of the emerging technology, is if it becomes mainstream then it's no longer a differentiator. And so you have these early adopters that are using it right now. But, but if it is pushed and pushed well from the, from the majority, it's no longer Going to be something you can hang a hat on. So what's next? [43:12] JD: In my situation too, I wasn't necessarily talking about the hang the hat on, but that's great chat in the beginning of it, right? To win new business. I was saying you're going to lose fucking business if you don't have it. So your point backs me up. [43:25] Chad: Yeah, they're all going to have it. [43:26] JD: Everyone will have it. And if you don't, then you're some small advisor with a hundred clients in some geographical area and you say, ah, wellness readiness, financial planning. That's not for me. I'm a 401k pro through and through. You're going to watch your business, a book erode over the years and that would be a horrible mistake for you to make. [43:47] Chad: Yeah. [43:47] JD: See my point? So good for Sage View. I saw three Piece in the chat bar asking if there's. He's setting me up. When he asked me if there's any wellness companies out there and planning companies, I've been spending some time with him. We've been chatting kind of shop, talking shop. And I am blown away at the amount of technology companies that are entering this space of planning and wellness and readiness. And they come from all shapes and sizes and different approaches. And so if you're an advisor and you don't think there's solutions out there for you to snap on, there are a ton in all kinds of different areas and all approaching it from different standpoints. And hopefully over the course of the next year, two years, we can start to spotlight some of those on this show. And, and we have in the past. [44:39] Mark: I was going to say we, we have. And a lot of them aren't even around anymore. [44:43] JD: Some of them aren't. That's part of that, that kind of space. Or they've been bought. You know, old Buffington of foreign Kplans.com was bought to the tune of freaking tens of millions of dollars or something, so. Or north of $10 million. Stage View. Let's, let's talk sales since we've got three of the sharpest sales dudes in on this podcast today. [45:13] Chad: He's talking about himself, Mark, not you. [45:14] JD: Yeah, I will, it'll. I will always remember Chad's comments to me when I talk sales when he says to me, when's the last time you sold a plan, JD And I was like, oh, I just got put in my place, bro. You know, we got, we got secure 2.0. We got this coverage gap. We've got guidelines selling 14, 500 plans we've got billions of dollars, billions, hundreds of millions of dollars of money going into venture capital backed disruptors. They feel like guidelines because they feel like that times are changing over the next few years. But is everyone ready to sell startups? Because you guys have been doing it for a long time. I was recently on a call with an advisor. He was excitedly telling me about how he was going to reach out to his group of advisors underneath him and, and, and help them close plans. And he started to talk to me about vendor comparisons and comparing Voyage and Hwan to principal and I stopped him in his tracks. And I'm curious if, if Chad or Mark or Justin, you think I'm wrong here? Because when's the last time I sold a plan? I said to him, I said to him, hey, startups are not about vendor comparisons. Startups are about design, getting the client comfortable with like what the cost is going to be, what their hands are tighter, what they're committed to from a matching standpoint, like it's a lot less sexy in a very different world of sales. So that's what I wanted to ask you guys about today. What are some good strategies for selling startups in these next few years that differ from takeovers? What are the pros? What are the cons? What are some misunderstandings that are out there like the one I just mentioned? I'll start with you, Roby. [47:03] Mark: Well, first off, I would say to some regard, I, I, I appreciate your points and I agree with most of them, but I also think that maybe not a comparison per se, but knowing which, again, I know we're saying vendors, but which record keepers are truly doing startup plans that are effective, that offers what these advisors need to, to run these plans because obviously they don't want to spend a ton of time doing it. So that's the first thing is, I mean, a comparison. Yeah, you're gonna, you're gonna want to talk to those folks and, and know if they're a good fit for that size of plan in that marketplace. Sorry Chad, I know you're chomping at the bit here, but I'm just gonna talk really slow. [47:53] JD: Well, tell me. It's definitely a different, it's a different style, right? It has to be. It's totally different than. [48:00] Chad: What I was laughing about is we just talked about guideline bringing on, you know, tens of thousands of plans in a singular year. They're not running comparisons in doing so they're selling a product now. Do I think running a comparison is a way for advisors to show skill Set, especially those that maybe don't focus in this place. They're like, oh, check me out. I ran a request for a proposal and I put these side by side. Look what I can do. I think they're using that as a crutch instead of getting after what the client actually needs, which is design support, operational efficiency, and, and making sure that the plan is going to accomplish what it needs to accomplish and doesn't burden the client with a whole bunch of overhead. So. So no, I don't think a comparative is necessary. You're saying techniques, jd. If I'm an advisor, I am like on the back of my hand understanding the tax credits. I'm understanding how to communicate those credits. And I'm spending a ton of time, I'm spending a shit ton of time talking about operational efficiencies with payroll integration. In fact, if I'm going to go after. And I was asked this question, I'll drink for it. It's so text me, like maybe Tuesday night. And he asked if an advisor was. [49:17] Mark: It's actually. That's actually two. Because you're name dropping it personally. Like, look at me. [49:23] Chad: If an advisor was focused only in a startup space, how many plans could they take on a year? And I started thinking about it and I wrote back, depends on what kind of service they have. Do they have an office behind them? Are they using one product with the same lineup across the board? Are they going to use tools to deliver fiduciary review meetings? I said, my thought is they could probably do 50 plans comfortably, startup plans comfortably in a year, and do it well. And so much of that has to do with creating efficiencies for the advisor practice, but also for the client. You should be pushing clients to have payroll integration in the startup space. If not, use a company like payroll integrations or many of the other ones out there that snap on in between. You should be pushing them for all the data all the time. You should be encouraging them to look at what their hiring practices are and use an eligibility period that can be tracked and create ease for that hr. That's three. Nobody talks about that stuff. They just want to sell the plan and move on. Which is why there's issues with guideline and paychecks and automatic data processing. You're welcome, Mark. [50:29] JD: I don't know if we'll get into Sherry's part tonight, but I appreciate her writing the 2500 per plan. I think that's a good starting point, but we'll skip the comp side of it. But that can be challenging. Good that Sherry brings that up as the comps a little different on startups and takeovers. But you also can also hope and pray that those things grow over time and you leverage them for proper comp down the line. It's funny that you said payroll integration, Chad, because I thought you were going to go more staircase and so Chad's famous for his magical staircase. And I thought you were going to say, look, I think a business owner that's trying to set up a plan is a lot more interested in the functionalities of setting up the actual plan and how it works. You know, the match, the profit sharing, if any, what they're committed to, what they're not committed to, what could be discretionary, the eligibility, how to enroll people, like all these like really unsexy things. But you're smart, Chad, when you say payroll integration, that's been the fuel to guidelines and human interests and the payroll company's success. So it's clearly what the prospect wants to hear. The nerd in me would say to you, like, really? Is payroll integration that important for a seven person startup plan? I might argue on you on that, but you're right from a sales standpoint. So I'm wrong. [51:53] Chad: I mean they don't operationally, they don't want to touch it. And jd, don't forget you asked what doing what we're doing moving forward. Remember, there's, there's, there's going to be a lot of people auto enrolled moving forward. The conversation of the staircase is blown up and has to be changed. I can't do what I've done for the last 15 years. [52:11] JD: Oh, because they're all automatically. [52:14] Chad: Yeah. [52:15] JD: Well, a lot of its core concepts are still true. But you're right, the automatic enrollment puts a different twist on it. But you're, you're still. There you go though. It's still. To me that's the point is it's, you're still a design consultant with startups and you're less of a product salesman. And if you went in there as a salesman, saleswoman, and you said, here's the product, here's the investments, here's the fee structure, I think you might walk out of that point of sale and your, your consumer is supposed to make the decision. The buyer is going like, oh my God, they didn't answer like so many of the questions I needed answers to and I felt like they're just selling me something. Whereas if someone walked in and really structurally helped them with how it's going to look, you seem like you're not so sure I'm on the right page here, Chad. [52:59] Chad: No, I'm, I'm saying you are on the right page. But, but my, my hesitation there was. Jd. They don't know what questions. They're not asking questions, dude. [53:09] JD: No, no, no. But, but if you, if they don't know what the plan's going to look like then. And you walk out, I, I'm not gonna buy. Because you know what they're worried about? You said match and they're thinking to themselves, I have to make a match. Like what's that going to cost me and when do I have to do it and how much will it cost? I thought I heard him say I could do a profit shirt. What does that mean? Jesus Christ. Is that more money I need to put in? How long do I have to keep this 401k plan? Am I allowed to get out of it? Not get out of it. Like they're worried about. They're a small business, so they're worried about how much they're committing to. And so if you start talking about. Sure, Voya and T row and investments and mutual funds and share classes and expenses, that you're just scaring the. Out of them. Like they're, they're worried they're getting into something they're not prepared for, in my mind. And so you should take a different approach. [53:58] Chad: I think you're right. I know you're right. [54:00] JD: You don't have to. Sam. [54:01] Chad: Right. But no, I'm. It's the same. It's what we've been doing for years. [54:05] Mark: Yeah. [54:05] Chad: Do we come in with multiple vendors to show independence? Often we do. But do we ever actually dive through those as a sales technique? No. On startups, never. Never ever, ever is it used as a sales technique. We've already built all the rapport through everything you just described. And the issue on the vendor is. Is usually a what would you recommend to our advisor? Partner question from the client. [54:29] Justin: Yeah, they're just looking at costs at that point. [54:31] JD: To me it's almost scarier to go into and sell it. Almost more difficult to go in and sell in a startup market because of what you just said, Chad. The things that the buyer doesn't know and so the art of it is just the opposite to teach them where in the takeover place people know what's going on so they have certain assumptions and you can talk about those products but in the startup space. And I'm not trying to promote a tp, a third party administrator. [55:02] Mark: Yeah, you got to two he said two letters. [55:04] JD: But yeah, you don't. If you don't know the mechanics of a lot of this stuff, let alone the tax credits like you're talking about, I feel like you could find yourself in a lot of hot water with a startup plan. Justin. [55:15] Mark: You don't know. [55:16] Justin: Yeah, but you know that's what your, your partners are for. Like us and go there and handle that. Those type of conversations. But I think, you know, contrary to your point, I love selling the startups because it's, it's an opportunity to get pretty intimate with a client and. [55:29] JD: Whoa. [55:29] Chad: What they don't know? [55:35] Justin: Yep, exactly. [55:36] JD: Hey now. [55:37] Justin: But you know they're often, they're often, at least in my experience not. You're not competing for business. You're, you're. It's very rare that you are. Right. So you have a chance that one on one interaction. But really teach them how to save money. They don't realize that all these costs they're putting in are a tax deduction on the backside. [55:57] Chad: And we got twofold to that comment though. Justin, don't forget we're being brought in. Right. The, the, the advisor has already kind of competed for the relationship and they're bringing us in as, as the third party administrator which is usually why we're not. [56:09] Justin: I've been, I've been getting my own. [56:11] Chad: We're not competing but jd did you see guys comment in the chat bar? Do you think guideline did this, did this level of work for 14, 000 plus plans? Absolutely not. Which is why so many of those are going to be designed. Exactly. [56:26] JD: But we might be able to learn from, from that. That's a good one. No, because you know what I think they did. They partnered with Gusto for sure on a lot of this stuff but they're also really good at. And this is the same way that paychecks in automatic data processing sold to there. And this is how they all market themselves. Disruptors. And so the sales meeting should reflect the way they market themselves which is to Chad's point earlier, look, we're going to do payroll integration so you don't have to do jack shit. So when you. And they're lying by the way. There's still things you need to do. But that's how they sell it. Like go with me and we will completely take everything off of your desk for you. It will be done for. Yeah. [57:06] Justin: Because that's one of the most common questions I get asked happened today. What do I have to do? What are my responsibilities Once I say [57:12] JD: okay, look at this. Hang on. Look at this. To Justin. One second though. You guys could say the same thing. What does it. [57:20] Chad: We just have more integrity. [57:22] JD: But what does a third party administrator do? They take a bunch of off of your desk, do it for you. So if you were just slick, you would say, oh my God, you come with us. We're basically like an outsourced, you know, fiduciary. We take everything you need to do. You're testing your 5500 prep, whatever, and we do it all for you. Your document. That's where we blow it. Chad says we have integrity, and that's true. But what we lack is the sales skills of those companies that are selling 14, 000 plants. [57:52] Chad: No, time out. Time out. Wow. We lack the marketing and advertising. JD it's not the sales. I guarantee any of their sales. [58:01] JD: I don't understand school. [58:03] Chad: You should be able to speak to a client on how to advise a client on how to support how to run a point of sale. You think one of their sales folks could hold a, A, a match to what, to what these guys do? No, they're not selling plans. [58:17] JD: They're getting plans, but they're getting them through saying, it's easy to do, it's low cost, it's done for you. And so if, hey, but if you can learn anything. You're right. I'm giving, I'm telling you. You're right. But the reason that they close on those 14, 000, like this, this little microcosm of a study here for you is telling you what the client wants to hear. And so you're right. Through marketing and sales, they've been given the opportunity to reach these large numbers, but they've clearly figured out what works. And it's telling them that there's nothing for them to do. It's a piece of cake. It's low cost, and this is the way to do it. And then tpas, I'll drink run. Run around the country pitching the opposite, saying, I don't come to any of us. [59:05] Chad: Pitch the opposite. We just. [59:08] JD: Last time you went to asphalt, I'll drink for that. [59:11] Chad: Have you met those. [59:11] JD: Have you met those people? Yeah. [59:13] Chad: Have you heard them talk about those folks are few and far between in terms of the volume being or not. [59:18] JD: It'd be fun to like throw in a regular chad and then be able to throw in like a, a robo chad like at the same time and see how both situations played out. And if Chad was like, no, no, no, we're not saying it's super easy, but we're gonna take care of a lot of stuff for you. But we do. There are some important decisions that we want you to make along the way. We're going to be there however you do it. And you do a phenomenal job. And then the. The robo Chad comes in and they say, how does this work? Robo Chad? And robo Chad goes, oh, it's a piece of cake, bro. Basically, just sign right here. We'll take care of the rest. It's cheap. We do it for you. Bada bing, bada boom. And I, Robo. Robo Chad would crush, like, honest Chad for sure. [1:00:00] Chad: And every. But every employee at Plan Design Consultants would quit because every plan was blowing up and complaining and calling in because things weren't working. Now, hold on. I'm going to give you two quick examples. [1:00:11] JD: Garbage in, garbage out, buddy. [1:00:12] Chad: Remember when you and I, earlier in my career, we went over to a. A pool. I'm not going to call it a pool. Employer plan. It was a professional employee organization, I think is what it is. And the employer asked, so you guys are going to pay our match. And you and I sat in this point of sale. We're like, no. And he's like, well, that's what my professional employer, they pay my match for me. And we're like, no, no, that doesn't happen. The flip side of that nowadays is that, oh, my record keeper, my volume shop tells me that I'm only allowed to save 2% of my pay. I'm like, no, that's not true. They're like, no, no, that's it. I'm only legally allowed to save 2%. I'm like, no, that's not true. You just don't have a safe harbor. You don't understand the testing. You can save more than that. You can't under your current design. Like, well, nobody ever told me that. They told me I'm only allowed to save 2%. Like, yeah, it's because they're not advising you properly. Nobody's spending any time. [1:01:12] Mark: I get that. [1:01:13] Chad: On probably 50, 40 to 50 of those takeover groups. [1:01:17] JD: If what you're saying is true. And we can wrap up do chat for Champion and talk about what we delivered to it. So I'll drink for that. If what you're saying is true, I'm gonna go super optimistic right now for everyone listening in and for you guys, if that's true, Chad. And they're bringing in these guidelines, bringing these 14, 500 plans, but setting them up kind of incorrectly. Same's happening at human interest. Same's happening at low cost provider names we've heard about forever. And then Secure 2.0 fuels this like new fucking tidal wave of, of new plans over the next three years because of the tax credits and everything. And this is what Brian Graf says, you know, from the American Retirement Association. Q. Butterbeer. We could be in, in line. Butterbeer. Yummy for a, a massive tidal wave of our own of the, of the, the fallout from all this. Like you could be calling on existing plans that were set up and things are going wrong. They hadn't heard about what you just talked about, Chad. That they could have a safe harbor, they could do more, whatever. I mean this could be a heyday. This is fish in a barrel. [1:02:32] Chad: Four years ago, when, when we were talking about very similar topics, I said, I think the next step for the third party administrative community is to go back to individual fix it project work and heavy consultation. Because I don't think a lot of these plans are going to want to leave their comfort of the gusto, you know, guideline approach. But they're going to need someone to clean up the, that's been left behind. [1:02:57] JD: Yikes. [1:02:58] Chad: And to make it work moving forward. [1:02:59] JD: Who wants that job? But yeah, maybe I was just saying. No, but I know you believe this too because it's what we've lived off of for a long time. But there's also a lot of takeover opportunity there to walk in and say, hey, look, this thing's been, they haven't been serving you well. You've missed out on this, this and this opportunity and we need to actually think about what that looks like. Like, can we scan 5500 to find that new vulnerability? And these new plans that were, those 14,000 plans that were put in by guideline last year, like where are they going to go wrong? How can we X ray that and find that out? Is that one. [1:03:35] Chad: I don't know. I know we're moving on, but some food for thought that I don't know the answer to. How many of these plans that a guideline created last year or set up last year actually have an actual deferral percentage test issue? How many of them actually have people participating versus not. [1:03:56] JD: Oh, I think a very high would have a. I don't know. [1:03:59] Chad: Because if you look at these. Well, I think I, I don't know. When I, when I think logically about the type of groups they're bringing on, my thought is the, these are very small businesses where the owners are probably not profitable. That's why they didn't have something in place already. That's why they're not working with an advisor. That's why they went to something super cheap. And so they probably aren't in a position where they have highly compensated employees. Excuse me, saving. And so maybe it's not an issue. And Jim barking up the wrong tree. [1:04:31] JD: Jim brings up a good example too. Sampo, don't forget going forward. I mean this wasn't true last year with the 14000 at guideline, but going forward they'll be auto enrolled and what everyone's going to probably auto run them at 3% to start. So you'll at least have the owners able to do 5% and then you. Yeah, you might be right, Chad. You might have owners these companies that aren't doing all that well. But I don't know. Even if your owner is doing moderately okay, you finally get the gun to your head to put a 401k plan in place and you, you're making 100k or something. You're probably still going to try to throw 10k in there or 8k or something. And so you're going to fail that test when you're non highly comps are averaging 3% or 4% or something. So I don't know but I would think you'd have a lot of failed tests. But who knows? I don't know. Chapter champion. Yeah, yeah. Last week's chapter champion was we can't say his name on the show otherwise you have to drink for it. And I think I owe two and I had to this afternoon in the course of my busy day. Go. All right jd, you promised everyone you weren't going to order from Doordash again. So you got to figure out what app you're going to get to send some fun stuff to Itso. What up? I just said his name. So I signed up for Instacart so I can go to companies like Target and have them pick up things. I didn't know I could boomer move on my part. And I ordered 17 items from the Dollar Tree store. [1:06:16] Justin: We go from $103 last week to 17 dol this week. [1:06:20] JD: Well, no, no, the total bill was like 60 something bucks or something because I ordered numerous of many things. [1:06:26] Mark: Oh, okay. [1:06:27] JD: So. So buddy, this is showing up to it. [1:06:31] Mark: So there's that. That picture right there is a store that JD has never ever, ever gone into. [1:06:37] JD: I also have to drink again for saying his name again. [1:06:41] Justin: He'll be on a mark. [1:06:43] JD: All right, we did one 20 ounce pack of spaghetti because, you know, spaghetti is good. Spa naturals, coconut oil moisturizing cream. Because I thought it so could get a little help with the skin. I got on the old school Barbasol thick and rich shaving cream. You know the old. [1:07:05] Mark: Yes, the blue and red. [1:07:06] JD: Oh, yeah. I don't know, I don't do that kind of thing. But I'm assuming that's still relevant, right? I got him a 8 oz of craft ranch classic dressing. You always need ranch, right? [1:07:19] Mark: Eight ounces is like a shot glass of ranch. [1:07:21] JD: I got him a four pack of new toothbrushes because, yeah, a snack pack of pudding triples, chocolate vanilla. [1:07:31] Justin: That's a good call, man. [1:07:32] JD: I got him a two pack of. And I actually got him two. So four new sponges and then the sponges with the Brillo on one side. [1:07:42] Mark: Yeah, yeah. [1:07:43] JD: I got him a pack of the, you know, red solo cups. I got a little mini shot glass ones. [1:07:49] Mark: Nice. I'm not sure quality. [1:07:51] Chad: J.D. [1:07:52] JD: i got him five. No, two, two, five packs of top ramen, the original. Oh yeah, Visual beef flavor. I got a little Lysol toilet bowl cleaner with lavender field scent. So, you know, you squirt it in the bowl. You know, hey, you gotta. Everyone's gotta clean their toilet bowl. I got on some old El Paso taco seasoning, the original. I got hot pockets. I got him some fisher boy fish sticks. [1:08:28] Justin: All this is going to be on our rider for our next show. [1:08:31] JD: I got him some, some mead envelopes, your classic white envelopes. You always need envelopes. He's a busy mail anymore. [1:08:40] Mark: Yeah, no, you don't. [1:08:41] JD: Yeah, I got him a. I got him some white out correction fluid. You know, when you make a mistake on the envelope, you want to white it out. [1:08:48] Justin: Did he put that on his computer screen or what's he doing? [1:08:52] JD: Does anybody use white out anymore? I thought that was so cool. Like. [1:08:55] Mark: Yeah, I use it. I use did. These are to paint my nails real shiny. [1:09:00] JD: That's how old I am. When I was in 401k, we actually had typewriters in the office and we had white out for when. [1:09:07] Mark: When I was in 401k. [1:09:08] JD: You're not in it anymore? [1:09:10] Justin: Oh, no, he doesn't sell anymore, remember? [1:09:12] JD: Come on, Chad. [1:09:12] Mark: Oh, Webby, we said ramen, dude. [1:09:14] JD: Chad, I'd like you to say that more on the show. And that should be your one liner. Say for me, when's the last time. [1:09:20] Chad: When's the last time you sold a plan? J.D. [1:09:22] JD: yeah, that's good. There's a. [1:09:24] Mark: Apparently everybody's enjoying Chad saying ton. [1:09:26] JD: Let's keep going. I got him some Hunt's tomato ketchup. I got him some Sour Patch Kids. [1:09:34] Justin: A lot more than 17 items. [1:09:35] JD: Swedish fish. [1:09:37] Mark: Oh, good, good call, Good call. Yeah. [1:09:39] JD: Some Haribo, Haribo Gold Bears gummies. You know, the gummy bears. Yeah, and these are real gummy bears, Josh. You can feel free to eat them. There's nothing tricky about them. I got him a deep. He should relax. He's building this company. Fiduciary works. He works very hard. I got him a detoxifying charcoal face. Diabetes. No, not a lot of diabetes here. Mr. Clean Magic Eraser. Two packs of those because those are sick. The Magic eraser. Yeah. [1:10:11] Mark: They're so cool. Yeah. [1:10:12] JD: I got him some Reynolds wrap, aluminum foil. [1:10:16] Justin: You know, everybody needs that. [1:10:18] JD: When you, when you, you made too much of that top ramen. You can just put a lot of [1:10:22] Chad: brand name items there. I wouldn't have expected Reynolds and, and, and Kraft. [1:10:27] JD: Insert your best Irish leprechaun accent. I got in some Irish spring deodorant. So the original, you know, and then lastly a little Spanish. Lastly. And his wife's probably not going to like this. I don't know. I got, last one. I got him. The brand is called Very Quick and it's, it's 99% accurate. And it just takes three minutes. It's a pregnancy test. [1:11:02] Chad: There you go. [1:11:04] JD: All right. And I am voting for I hate guideline tonight because I just. Guideline sucks. Sorry. Guideline sucks is my vote. Guideline sucks. Your vote, Justin Silent J McNeil. [1:11:20] Justin: Oh, it was a good one tonight. But yeah, he took the, he took the win for me too. [1:11:25] JD: Yep, he's won recently. [1:11:27] Justin: A lot of good. [1:11:28] JD: This is some greatest of all time stuff happening because he has one recently. Unless the boys can challenge this chad, you can work together too, if you wanted. [1:11:36] Chad: There was, there was a lot of good stuff tonight, but for the sake of mention on the show so many times, with good banter, I'm going Guy Hawker. [1:11:45] Mark: Oh, good. [1:11:46] JD: That's a good one. [1:11:46] Justin: Yep, yep. [1:11:48] JD: All right, Roby. [1:11:49] Mark: I don't, I don't think it matters. [1:11:51] JD: It doesn't. Unless you go for Guy. [1:11:55] Mark: Then what happens? [1:11:57] JD: And Brandon's gotta break it. Yeah, no, you can vote and we can make them chat in the chat bar for the. [1:12:04] Mark: No, I, I, Okay. [1:12:07] JD: Like that. [1:12:08] Mark: Yeah. [1:12:08] Chad: Guy. [1:12:08] JD: All right, classic old school tie. We have got Jim Samples tied with Guy Hawker. Mark, keep using your brain here because you're gonna either the one you're gonna have to answer or finish Mark's sentence the most creative way you can. You've got about 30 seconds to do it. [1:12:25] Chad: The Samsoe and Hawker and we will. [1:12:28] JD: It will be clear who the winner is. So Mark, take it away. Robbie, what should they. [1:12:33] Mark: Okay, I'll say this. Finish. Finish this sentence. My favorite thing to do on Thursday nights is blank. [1:12:50] JD: Okay, let's look for it. They're thinking right now. Thinking right now. One of them wants to get really sexual with it. The other one's thinking farts and poops. [1:13:01] Chad: My guess is Guy Hawker is not thinking about either of those things. [1:13:06] JD: Oh, wait. I like how the rest of the audience is getting in. Open a beer and watch Seinfeld is what Hawker says. Ponderance. Got my vote. He could come from behind with the use of magic. My magic. [1:13:23] Mark: Jesus. [1:13:24] JD: Wait, did we get an answer from sample yet? [1:13:26] Mark: Yeah, it's right there. [1:13:29] JD: Watching this silly show and say that guideline sucks. Roby, I'm gonna let you break that one since you did the question. Roby, did you freeze? [1:13:41] Mark: Oh, dude. I was like, where did everyone go? [1:13:44] JD: You want Sampo or you want open a beer and watch Seinfeld? [1:13:49] Mark: I'm gonna go with the. The non traditional answer here that everyone expects from me. And I'm saying the winner is Guy Hawker. [1:13:56] JD: Okay, Guy Hawker. Congratulations, Guy. You are today's chat bar champion. Guy. I know we chat from time to time. I'm not certain I have your home address. So I would like to know where you would like this stuff sent next Thursday. And it won't be Dollar Tree. Be somewhere else close to your house will be. This retireholics will be shopping for you. [1:14:21] Mark: It'll be Dollar General. [1:14:23] JD: I was supposed to involve you guys. If you're available next Thursday, let's do a zoom around noon. [1:14:32] Mark: Oh, wait, next Thursday? No. [1:14:35] JD: Oh, you're out. Are you guys there at the Pebble? [1:14:38] Mark: I don't know where we're gonna be, [1:14:39] Chad: but yeah, we're definitely not gonna be here next time. [1:14:47] JD: Thank you everyone for tuning in. Thank you to tonight's guest. You've been one of the most intelligent guests we've had in a long time. We appreciate you and love you. Yeah, hashtag guideline sucks. We'll see you next week. [1:15:02] Mark: No, [1:15:04] JD: you know, I tagged. Oh, you know what I need to learn about this show? What people listen. And you might think to yourself, oh, no, no, it's live. Like we see who's here. But no, it's recorded. People listen. [1:15:17] Chad: I get so much the next day. [1:15:18] JD: Yeah, and when I talk about a guideline. [1:15:22] Mark: Oh, okay. No timeout. Perfect story time. Perfect. [1:15:26] JD: So real quick. [1:15:27] Mark: To end the show. Yes. Justin has to tell it because I'm not a good storyteller. I'm long winded. [1:15:32] JD: But really quick. [1:15:34] Mark: All right, then, Chad, say it. [1:15:35] Justin: Yeah, that's all. [1:15:36] JD: People are watching. They're listening. [1:15:37] Mark: All right. Okay, we're on. Yeah, we were on a Zoom call with it can't be. [1:15:42] Justin: It can't be. [1:15:42] Chad: Yeah, yeah, I'll tell it. We're on. We're on a Zoom call with Paylocity. [1:15:47] JD: And. [1:15:48] Chad: And he's, you know, he did a really good job. And at the end of the call, he's like, so who here is on the sales front? Like, I recognize two of you from Retireholics, but I. I. Only the two of you. And we're like, which two? No, Chad. He doesn't recognize Robey, and we lost our shit. I'm like, of all the people not to recognize. We rock around Vegas and everybody's like, robey, Roby. Oh, my gosh, it's Robe guy. And he didn't recognize Robey with that. [1:16:15] JD: How many times does Justin get left out of someone's post? [1:16:18] Justin: All the time. That's what I thought it was to get. Okay, it's just gonna be one of those. [1:16:22] JD: Chad, JD@ Mark. Yay. Retire Alex. And then we sent it to Justin in a group chat, and I don't even notice. And he goes, no, I'm just saying, like, I forget. I talk about, like, big companies. And then two days later, I get a private message from one of them on LinkedIn all the time. I go, oh, my God. I forget that people are listening. So I go, hashtag, guideline sucks. And I'm sure someone from Guideline will write me in a few days and be like, oh, fuck you, fucker. Okay, Brandon and I. I should say I picked the song. We. We didn't really watch the video all the way through. I heard it on the way back from Vegas on the radio. I don't think it's the best song in the world, but whatever. We just picked it, so play it and we'll see you next week. Everybody. We.