Retirement Income & Advisor Sales Strategy | Elizabeth Heffernan

[0:00] JD: If he's great, he deserves a 10. You got one job, Justin. Don't fuck it up again. [0:10] Chad: JD's on his a game too. [0:12] Justin: He is. Well, we were introduced to today's guest by our great friend Michelle Richter. She's a defined contribution investment savant here to make a dent in the ever growing savings gap America's facing. She loves the outdoors, has been every national park in the states and just went skydiving for her first and last time. She loves cooking all things Italian foods and her monthly visits for gumbo and a game of mahjong with her gam gam. Ladies and gentlemen, Elizabeth Heffernan. [0:41] JD: Elizabeth, we are going to be playing some games today, okay? We're going to be playing chat bar champion. So if you can keep your eye on that chat bar, you are going to get to vote for one of our attendees into the finals. And then the audience out there is going to vote for the winner for chatboard champion. I just realized that I forgot to send Faith pizza, so I'm going to have to fit that into the show here somehow. I'm going to have to doordash for pizza in the midst of the show, which I think I can pull off. We are also going to play and this is very important, we're going to very scary actually. We're going to play a game called Acro sin. So if you say any acronym or initialism, you must drink from your penalty drink. Just so happens that your penalty drink is your sipping drink, which I think I totally approve this because it's red wine. So that'll. That'll knock you off your socks. So Acrosyn starts now. Be prepared for that. [1:40] Mark: The beer of the episode today is. [1:44] Chad: Yes, Natty Light. [1:46] JD: And this holds a special place in my heart. I used to go to the liquor store with my young friends and we would buy Natty Lights. I want to say it was like $3.99 for a 12 pack. And I would wake up on a Saturday morning and there would be like 144 empty natty lights all over our apartment. It was a disaster. So lots of good and bad feelings from this. Let's take a little taste test. I mean, it's actually a horrible fucking beer, but [2:26] Mark: I'm just going to give [2:27] JD: it five out of five robes. [2:32] Chad: Nostalgic for you. Have you seen those cases of where do they make it? 99 beers in one case. Yeah. Of Natty Light. [2:39] Speaker E: You can carry that. [2:40] Chad: Oh, the guys that pull it. There's there. It's all over where they pull it out of the store. It's pretty funny, like six or seven feet long. [2:48] JD: So with that, let's check in on some headlines, shall we? Let's go to headlines. [2:55] Speaker F: Foreign. [3:03] JD: Headline today, the brother of a past guest on this show, this is Brad Aaron's brother. Grant is on John Sullivan's 401K podcast and he's talking. [3:18] Mark: What do we want to learn from this? [3:20] JD: Go listen to it. It's only like 11 minutes. And he has made this shift. Intellisense continues to beat the drum of focusing on the participant, bringing financial planning to them. You know, planning services, wealth management services to the individual. That's like what he's passionate about. So gone are the days of fiduciary reviews and fund analysis and all this. He feels like it's very, very important that we focus on the participant. I have to tell you something. [3:51] Mark: Two things. [3:52] JD: I was on a client call two days ago, very large plan of ours, and [4:03] Chad: I'm hearing someone's got it screaming. [4:06] Mark: And I, as we were reviewing the [4:09] JD: funds, talking about the fee structure, explaining fees, it became very clear to me, and this is a longtime client, that the hr, damn it. That the human resource. Was not interested in those things and was very much interested in whether we could deliver financial wellness, you know, help people with an emergency savings. And we started to have this conversation with her. The reason why was the vendor had offered this to her, unbeknownst to me, and, or the advisor, and the vendor was nationwide and they had, they had not, it had not gone to fruition. They had offered it to her. She said, it sounds wonderful. I want to use it. And they hadn't really been implementing it. Anyways, my point to everyone listening in is it was very clear to me that this was way more important to her than anything else that has to do with the plan. And so if that advisor can deliver on that and, and fill that gap with nationwide or bring some other third party in, he's going to have a very happy client. And this is a large client. Okay, second story to this, and I'm just backing up Mr. Aaron's comments on the. On the podcast. My wife came to me with our human resources team and they wanted to have a meeting with me. And I was like, okay. And they asked, started asking me questions about can our 401k plan deliver financial education to our participants? You know, how to have an emergency savings, how to have college savings plans, how to budget better. And I was blown away. This was my own company coming to me. [5:50] Mark: And it was just an interesting position [5:53] JD: for me to be in. [5:53] Mark: I'm like, of course we can, like [5:56] JD: we can find that person. [5:57] Mark: They were thinking about hiring someone new [5:59] JD: and then I realized that our advisor is with one digital and one digital must have a solution and we are starting that process with them now. So anyways, just reminding everyone this is real and I'm kind of convincing myself of this like this wellness thing that Mark has scoffed at with his backward hat for years is actually a thing and these clients want it. Is that shocking to you? Chad? [6:23] Chad: No. What's shocking to me is that after three, four years, it still has not made its way into the majority of retirement plans it needs. The technology exists even if they don't want to spend the money on an advisor to deliver it. This, the technology exists within the data to really help participants surface level with some of this guidance and literacy that they need. But we as an industry continue to lag behind in implementing it. [6:52] Speaker E: JD One more that's the key thing is like participant engagement. I mean you just hit my biggest hottest button. We can have all of this stuff, but it is if we build it, they are not going to come. We have got to figure out a way to get folks more engaged in this topic. I mean, I started my career in this industry going from hospital to hospital in a 403 environment doing participant education. So the employer endorsed it because I was on site, people were coming, but I still only reached a minuscule percentage [7:31] JD: of the people because that's the conversation. Go ahead, John. [7:34] Chad: I'm just going to ask as blunt as I can, are we ever going to be able to do that? I'm getting, I'm saying getting people to engage because I think we can leverage technology we have in many ways with auto features. I think we can find a way to bridge that gap. I don't think getting the consumer, meaning the participant, to engage with us actively is going to happen on a scale level. [7:59] Speaker E: They engage when they have a problem. And so if you can start figuring out, you know, based on their behavior, like, you know, where do we target so like targeting Everybody who turns 50 that they can do catch up? Well, half of them, maybe more. 80% of them can't afford to do catch up. They're not even doing the max, you know, telling everybody about loans or an emergency fund. I think if we can use the AI and the participant information intelligently, then they will only come when they realize they have a problem. Yeah, how do we help them when we know they have a problem? [8:38] JD: If you can use data, you can anticipate when they might have problems. Right. Even before those problems happen. So I do think there's a lot of money being poured into this, and they've done the research and they feel like there's a massive opportunity here. I will tell you this, in talking with my wife and then talking with this human resources person, and I've said this before, over and over again. If the employer's committed to it, that's another great kind of advancement deal. If you've got the employer who's saying, we really want to accomplish this, they're gonna help you move the needle, too, just by making it known to their. Their people and pushing the initiative and monitoring it. And so I. I'm just saying I'm kind of like you. And I was kind of like scoffing robe guy, where I was like, this stuff just. It's dying on the vine. Like, it's really not that big of a deal. But now it's hitting me flat in the face in real conversations where I'm going, oh, shit, this is like what my client wants right now. Like, this is most important to her. [9:39] Chad: Two final thoughts, jd. One being, remember who you were talking to. Right. You were talking to the human resources person. The CFO might not be as interested. The COO might not interested. [9:53] Speaker E: That's a double. [9:54] Chad: I even said human resources, but straight into the other. So you. We all need to know our audience, number one. Number two, when it comes to hashtag, not your typical advisor, like the segments we always used to do. If you're out there and you have implemented this in your practice and you're having this as part of your conversation. What, What I would say 98% of advisors are not. So that is really going to differentiate you if you have this. [10:22] Mark: And then to back you up, Chad, [10:24] JD: don't forget who your audience is. So if it's not being used widespread by the participants, but the decision makers are interested in it, well, you know, then you're going to win more business by. By positioning something that sounds attractive to them, even if maybe it's not being, you know, widely adopted. This one caught my attention. [10:45] Speaker E: One other thought, jd, the point around the human resources. It's important to human resources. Maybe we need to help then the chief executive officer or the chief operations officer, help that human resources person with their case to those other senior leaders. [11:09] Mark: Yeah, and there's. [11:11] JD: They do that, right. By showing them how that can impact productivity at work. And you want your employees to be financially sound for a variety of reasons. You know, this one caught my Attention [11:23] Speaker F: with just start overpaying people through really easy. Just, just pay them double pay them [11:28] JD: so much that their finances are in order. Yeah. [11:32] Mark: Think advisor is not a media outlet [11:35] JD: I go to often. But they caught my attention. I was a sucker for the top seven, you know, clickbait line. So it was the top seven things [11:48] Mark: advisors should do before 401k plan selling season. [11:53] JD: And I'm like, oh, okay, I want to hear this. Let's see what you guys. You guys are going to tell me. [11:59] Mark: Guess who they were quoting by the way, in their. In their seven reasons. [12:06] Chad: Which person? [12:07] Mark: Yeah, I'm not allowed to say his name because it's a, it's a penalty on the show. Number one. Number one reason. [12:17] JD: I don't know why I'm not saying these are great seven. I want to get your guys opinion. You in the chat bar and you guys here. Number one is craft a story for the practice. And so what they mean is the advisors firm. I don't, I'm with Mark. I don't like when they write it that way. But. [12:33] Mark: And it says quoted. Damn it quoted in here. And basically what he's saying is. And you can agree with this one [12:43] JD: is, hey, you should really know your story. Right? [12:45] Mark: You should know your why and you should have that really nailed down. Okay, I totally agree with that. You should have a really impactful why. [12:54] JD: You should be very comfortable describing it to someone and it should help you stand out from the competition. Okay? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But of course, that's a great one to get ready for sales season number two. Dang it. Got ads popping up. Build the practices infrastructure. So like that. [13:16] Mark: Why do you love that? [13:17] JD: Why do you like that? [13:18] Chad: Because if you can talk through your process with a client where they get an understanding, the next 18 months are going to look like that's a great way to sell. [13:27] JD: Okay, good for you. [13:28] Speaker E: I love roadmaps. [13:30] Mark: Good for you. So wait, what? [13:33] Speaker E: I love roadmaps. Like, oh, sorry, know where they're going to go. [13:37] JD: Yeah, I like how Chad spun it though is I saw it as like, hey, you need to have an efficient practice. You need to run your business well. But Chad's saying hey. And maybe that's what they meant here. I'm sure they did. Is that if you run it well [13:48] Mark: and you've got this roadmap and it's [13:50] JD: all built out, use that in your sales. That's going to help you win more business. Okay, very cool. [13:54] Mark: Number three on the list of seven [13:57] JD: is this one I think is easy Be referable to clients and centers of influence through marketing. Okay, so in getting ready for sales season, I guess, make sure your pipeline's gonna continue to be filled because you're marketing and you're out there and you're having your clients refer you into other clients. That's cool. [14:20] Mark: I will tell you this. I've. In all my years in business, I've never asked a client to refer me to another client. [14:29] JD: And I probably should have, you know, and so if I think that's great advice, if people out there can start to find a good way to go to their current clients and ask them to refer them someone else, I say, good for you. I've never done it, and I probably should have. That was number three, keep marketing. [14:45] Mark: No one can argue with that one. [14:46] JD: You got to keep marketing getting your name out there. Fine. [14:49] Mark: Number four, identify the right targets. They again, go on to quote our buddy who's been on this show before, and he says, I would come up [14:59] JD: with a list of about 150 to 250 companies that fit the kind of profile that you want. And then he suggests that you really research them. And you. And you go conspiracy theorists and, like, put them up on your wall of like, who's this? Who's the chief executive officer, who's in charge of human resources? Like, really, really stalk these companies and develop your plans for reaching out to them and for what reasons? And drip on them. So he also says this, which is great advice. A 401k plan is like a back burner issue for most companies, meaning they're not going to think about it Monday through Friday. It's kind of like what you were saying earlier, Elizabeth, with the participant. They're going to think about it when something goes wrong. And so his advice is, you know, make sure that you're dripping on them with a variety of topics and reaching out to your prospects so that when they hit one of those moments, you're front of mind. [15:55] Mark: Classic advice, but very sound advice. You know, your marketing needs to be consistent, needs to be varied. [16:02] JD: And so when they do run in a problem six months, a year from now, two years from now, they're thinking of you. I can't. I haven't been able to keep up with the chat bar at all. Number five, I've got an advertisement I need to go past. Thank you, think Advisor for your fucking ads. [16:23] Mark: Number five, get the yes and move forward from there. Basically, they're saying, look, you're not finished. When you get the thumbs up, it's important that you Validate in your new clients minds that they made the right decision. [16:41] JD: Okay, cool advice. I'm not so certain how that's a top seven to get ready for selling season, but fair enough. They can't all be goodies, right? Some of them have to be stupid. [16:55] Chad: Stretching to seven. That's what you're doing. You're stretching to seven. [16:58] JD: Yeah. [16:58] Mark: Well, good. [16:58] Chad: That was good [17:01] JD: point, Chad. Go to top six, man. [17:03] Mark: If you don't have a good seventh, [17:04] JD: give up on it. Number six is create a client calendar. So I like this. Again, I don't know if it fits for lack of selling season. Although you could use Chad's advice of flipping it into your sales process. So let them know what's going to happen in Q1 and Q2 and Q3, Q and Q4. You know, we are going to do a fund review and in these quarters, and we're going to look at participant education in this quarter. Like it's kind of that map that we were talking about. Show them the road map of what's going to happen. And then lastly, my thing's not working really well. Go. [17:38] Chad: Mark's got something for you. [17:40] Speaker F: No, I. I need to ask the panel here. JD Just said quarter one, but only said the letter number. Does that count? [17:52] Mark: Yeah, that counts. [17:53] Justin: I think it does. [17:55] Chad: I think it does, too. How many. [17:58] Mark: How many times? [18:00] Speaker F: I think you went 1, 2, 3. [18:01] Chad: I don't think you went 4. [18:05] Speaker E: I totally missed that. And I don't even know what he said. I was reading this. [18:08] Mark: Number seven. Number seven is. This one's kind of weird. Is make sure you keep track of industry deadlines. Okay, good advice. I'm not so sure. [18:23] JD: What? Chad, I can't hear you. [18:25] Chad: Brook's trying to set up a video game console in our room so that she can play video games with her friend without interrupting me. And she's asking me how to get the HDMI cord out of the tv. Oh, so that's what's. [18:40] Mark: Hey, when you. When you marry people from Missouri, you [18:44] Speaker F: know what they say. [18:47] Mark: Okay, last headline. What do you guys think about the top seven? Think you could do better? [18:52] JD: Yeah, maybe you should work on it. [18:54] Chad: Some of those are real, real good. I like them. But there's definitely a way to make that list stronger. [18:59] JD: All right, think advisor. [19:01] Mark: You should up your game a little [19:02] JD: bit, but good try. Keep trying. Keep trying. [19:05] Mark: Last headline of the day. I say the battle continues. [19:10] JD: It's a National association of Plan Advisors [19:15] Mark: article deal that JD Is trying to pull up now. [19:20] JD: Sorry, that says. [19:22] Mark: Well. [19:23] JD: Oh, it's on the screen. Look at the screen Jenny. Just look at the screen. You don't have to look at your notes. Wealth management becoming more attractive to providers. All I'll say is this. I told you, I told you. I keep telling you this convergence thing is legit. Read this article at the site mentioned. It talks about not just record keepers, also like large advisor shops but it focuses on some record keepers that are getting into the wealth management game, the financial planning game that we've said it a million times on the show monetizing the participant. This is happening. Don't bury your head in the sand. Figure out where you want to fit in this puzzle. [20:06] Chad: Yes Chad, can I ask because you mentioned this at the beginning about the whole financial literacy and wellness and it coming from a record keeper and you nor the advisor partner on a client that we've had for 30 years larger that this was pushed by this record keeper. [20:26] JD: Correct. They have their own client account manager who is on a call with. With this. I don't think so but I feel [20:35] Chad: like if I'm part of the advisor community I want, I would love and this is a large client to have that strategy session with them. If this is something they want to pitch to our mutual client and say how does this fit with the way you're supporting them? I don't like that neither you nor he knew about it. [20:53] JD: Well, according to this article that probably [20:56] Speaker F: happens a lot in a lot of other ways. [20:59] Chad: That's kind of my point though Mark. [21:02] JD: It does. Can you imagine what like advisors, how [21:06] Speaker E: much are you going to each record keeper and saying hey, what's on your list for this year for employers like what are your top 10 initiatives? Because wellness is on every single record keepers initiative and so I would venture every single. They're all having that conversation with all clients. [21:26] JD: I think go ahead. [21:27] Mark: I think a good advisor has to [21:29] JD: do what you're saying. They have to look at their book and go okay, I got this many plans of this record keeper, this many of this one and they need to be having those conversations with them and then involving themselves in that process. [21:41] Mark: And I know the big national shops [21:44] JD: tell the record keepers what to do and what not to do and they follow accordingly because they don't want to upset them. But this is perfect. Points to what I'm trying to say [21:53] Mark: is yes, Mark, Yes Chad, I do [21:56] JD: believe this conversation is happening all the time and I think it's, it's paramount that if you're going to work in this space that you are cognizant of this and deciding how you want to deal with it. And you cannot just let this wave roll over you without preparing for it, in my opinion at least. [22:19] Chad: Agreed. [22:20] JD: So I told you so, I told you so, I told you so. Do something about it. [22:25] Chad: To Elizabeth's point and Mark's point, it's happening even on the third party administration side of things. Right. I run into times where record keepers are, we'll say stepping on our toes and making comments about the document or how this should be changed when they don't actually know how the testing's taking place and why we haven't changed that. So yeah, it does happen, but. And I think it's a good way for advisors to form their partnerships. Be cognizant of what your record keeper partners are doing and do they treat the mutual client as it being your client or do they treat it as theirs? They look at this as a partnership or are they just a vendor? All of those things should play into the record keeper record keeper groups that advisors are working with. [23:05] JD: This article describes that there's a fee compression happening on the record keeping side, that they're looking at this financial planning, wealth management and wellness area as a great source of revenue. So you can bet your bottom they're going to be working really hard at it if it means profits for them in some way to offset the low fees that they're charging for record keeping. It's a captive audience. They see it as an opportunity. And so yeah, yeah, quickly before we leave this Tony. [23:39] Mark: I'm becoming so much more of a Tony Davis fan these days. [23:42] JD: He's sending emails to me that are really valuable in the chat bar. He says, is wellness measurable? I absolutely think wellness can be measurable, Tony. Like you can look at a client that's got 50 participants and you can say that you can poll them and find out that five of them have an emergency savings fund and you can [24:01] Mark: set goals with your, your client to raise that number and two years later say, hey, now we've got 30 that [24:08] JD: have emergency savings because of the education campaign. [24:11] Mark: And you can do that with all [24:12] JD: kinds of areas of financial planning and show metrics to your client that you've made a difference and that things are trending in the positive way. And again, that's what my wife wants at our company. That's what this very large client that I met with want. And I don't say that they want it. I'm saying it's not number one on their list of desires. [24:33] Speaker F: I think your wife wants it because she needs to reign in whatever it is you're doing. Spending $500 on beanies and buying Lambos and I don't know what you're doing. [24:45] Mark: You think she wants, she wants financial planning, education for me. Oh, it's just a roundabout. [24:51] JD: Okay. [24:52] Mark: I like it. I like it. [24:53] Speaker E: So, JD on that front of measurability, though, I think one of the biggest challenges is there is no common measurements right now. And so you can tailor it to specific clients and what they think their big issues are. But it is a little bit challenging given the different service providers and then determining what is it we're going to measure. You can measure a lot of things, but trying to figure out what we're going to measure and then report that out, I think is an important first step. Because otherwise you just roll out a bunch of stuff and you. [25:27] JD: Which. When I hear that, When I hear that, Elizabeth, I just, I hear opportunity. I feel like, what a phenomenal opportunity for an advisor to separate themselves and craft their story, you know, in a way that, hey, they determine what they want to measure, what they want to focus on, how they want to help the participants, et cetera, et cetera. [25:46] Mark: Let's jump right to you, Elizabeth. You spent a lot of your career with Fidelity. You're with a new company now. We don't do this a lot, but I'd love for you to explain to the audience who this company is that [25:59] JD: you work for, what it's called and what, what it is y' all are actually trying to do over there because it's, it's a little niche. It's a little different than I think a lot of us are used to. So what do you got going on? Where are you at? [26:11] Speaker E: Yeah, so I work for micruity, which is a fintech organization. And really Our focus is 100% on the defined contribution space and simplifying retirement income. So, you know, I worked at a record keeper for 24 plus years. I was often joked at being, you know, the one who was giving this the Heisman about, you know, that's too hard. We, as a Record keeper can't do that. It's, you know, everybody wants something a little bit different when it comes to retirement income, whether it's an annuity embedded in a target date fund or an annuity as a distribution option or even just a target payout fund. And so what my Crudy really is looking to do is to be that infrastructure hub that a Record Keeper can connect with so they don't have to build out their systems to support the nuances of these various different products and their requirements. And so it's really make, you know, I joke that my, my goal is to take burden off of record keepers so they have less reasons to say no. Sure, my former colleagues aren't going to love the way that I said that, but, you know, that's the goal, right? Let's make it easier on them because building out the capability to support each of these products that all have just little nuances is a big effort. [27:34] Mark: You're like, you're the bridge. You're the bridge. [27:38] JD: You're the bridge between these insurance solutions and all these different record keepers. And so instead of a world which [27:47] Mark: this is the way I always imagined [27:48] JD: it, a world where every record keeper has to vet out and decide and maybe even build, like, what kind of guaranteed income solution they're gonna have. What's up, Mark? [28:01] Speaker F: I got another one going to the panel. So Elizabeth said, and I'm gonna say it. So if it's. [28:07] Speaker E: If it is what it is, I drink. I saw his comment. [28:10] Chad: Oh, did you ring her up then? [28:13] Mark: Okay, [28:15] Justin: this comes up constantly. Make a decision. [28:19] Speaker F: Is that one? [28:20] JD: Oh, I don't think so. I don't think. [28:25] Chad: It's not an acronym. [28:26] Justin: It's just an abbreviation, right? [28:28] JD: No, leave it to the audience. Guys, what are we doing with, with that one? I. I don't think that's a. I [28:33] Mark: feel like that's a word. [28:34] JD: That's a sling or chat bar. [28:36] Speaker F: You can vote on it. It's fine. [28:39] JD: Yeah, maybe I'm not so sure about that one. [28:42] Speaker E: And let me make one clarification. JD on your comment. It's not just insurance products, right? There are a bunch of market. [28:50] Mark: No, you. [28:51] Chad: No, you already did it. [28:52] Mark: You said you did. [28:52] JD: No, but can I ask you. Sometimes these games get in the way of the value of the show here. Can I ask you if you're going to talk. Guaranteed income isn't insurance. Have to be a piece of the puzzle. How else are you going to do it? [29:09] Speaker E: Yeah. And if the product happens to be an annuity and it's guaranteed, then yes, it is insurance. But there are plenty of target payout funds or target date funds that turn into income funds. And they all have a little bit of a different nuance on how they want to make the payout. And the record keeper is not going to be able to build out all those nuances or even say a managed account provider that might be coming up with payout guidance on behalf of a participant. Because not every record keeper can support withdrawals. In exactly the same way. [29:53] JD: Okay, this is good. [29:54] Speaker E: Learning infrastructure can support insurance based payout solutions as well as capital markets based payouts. [30:02] JD: Capital market based payout. And I'm learning. This is good. I, I'm learning about this. So, okay, there will be products that are not guaranteed but still defined, benefiting our defined contribution world by saying, hey, you've accumulated this amount. We're going to convert it into a payment to you over the next whatever years. And, and with no insurance, no guarantee of any kind. Okay, cool. I didn't, I didn't exist. [30:31] Speaker E: So I'm not trying to be snarky, but doesn't every target date fund evolve into a target date income fund? And does anybody actually tell all those investors that are in that target date income fund how to actually take income? [30:50] Chad: I don't know what you mean. Are you, are you calling it an income fund? Because the equity exposure gets so low [30:56] JD: that yeah, it's reached its target. [31:00] Speaker E: The glide path has ended to take you into this target date income fund where. [31:07] Chad: Which has nothing to do with cash management. [31:11] Speaker E: But they're making assumptions on how people are going to withdraw. But they don't ever tell anybody what those assumptions are. Maybe we should tell people, maybe we should give them a roadmap that says, hey, if you're in this target date income fund and you want to take income, here's a good way to do it. [31:25] JD: That's just great. Because the normal guaranteed income debate gets messy and there's a lot of naysayers involved because it's hard to educate the participants. It's hard to get them to engage with a guaranteed outcome because usually the rules are so complicated. There's companies that are trying to simplify that. We've had them on this show and I, and I think that obviously because of the Pension Protection act, this was a big new thing that everyone started working on. Obviously, we in retirement, it sounds great to think about the decumulation side of things. And we've always left people hanging in that area. So I get all the reasons why. But I like now that you're having this fresh conversation that I've never thought about, which is it doesn't have to be guaranteed. And so I guess you have me with wow. [32:15] Mark: Yeah, Wouldn't that be interesting to say [32:17] JD: to someone in a 401k plan, hey, when you reach the end of your glide path, you know, click this or do this and you'll actually get $500 a month, you know, for whatever. That would be interesting. [32:33] Speaker E: Have to be either or so that's another one of my sort of having spent the last 15 years focused on retirement income. We often position it as either or. But that's not how people do it. Right. People are going to potentially annuitize a portion of their money. So I'll take myself as an example. I had a pension plan at Fidelity. It got terminated. I put it. It's in a very specific source in my 401k. And that's the money that I'm going to annuitize because I want to turn it back into a pension. I want at least some portion of my money in a stream that I can't outlive. I have longevity in my family. And then I'm going to take the other portion of my money and I'd like some guidance on how to draw it down. And I just want the money to show up on some sort of regularity with a little bit of guidance. [33:20] JD: But Elizabeth, you're the exception of the rule that you worked for Fidelity for fucking decades and you work in the bit like, of course you're going to. You understand those things. We need to, to think more about Joe and Mary, the participant, how they're going to agree. [33:33] Speaker E: So we put Joe and Mary and the participant into a targeted fund and more and more of them are now in going to end up in the target date income fund. We don't give them any guidance about how they should draw that down. Like let's start with something simple and just help them with that. [33:48] Chad: Statistically though, hasn't it been shown that they're not actually ending up in the target date income fund, that they're rolling their money out? [33:57] Speaker E: Well, they aren't giving them any guidance on how to take it out. So. [34:01] Chad: Yeah, but they're not ending up in that fund then. Most, I think statistically what we've seen, right, is that whether it be two or three, when people leave employment, they're rolling their money out, they're rolling it to an IRA or they're starting to [34:13] Speaker E: draw, that number is declining. And so. [34:17] Mark: And we'd like to see that. We'd like to see that change as [34:20] JD: an industry too, Chad. Like we'd like to keep those assets. [34:23] Chad: I'm not sure that the advisor community would agree. [34:27] Mark: Oh yeah, that's a good point. [34:30] JD: They might want to roll it over. [34:31] Speaker E: I mean, it depends on your advisor, right? Are they a wealth manager and they want rollovers? Are they. [34:37] Mark: No, everyone, Elizabeth, everyone will eventually succumb to the convergence. [34:45] JD: They'll all be. No. Yeah, your point doesn't Argue it doesn't [34:50] Chad: fall on deaf ears. And Guy had mentioned something above about distribution or guaranteed income. Guaranteed income being guaranteeing the base of the principal or guaranteeing the payout on the back end. When I hear guaranteed income, my mind currently in our industry thinks about not losing money in today's market. But I think that we're starting to change that premise that guaranteed income is about the distribution phase and guaranteeing an annuity that will pay you out over a time period. I'm not sure that the average Joe and Nancy employee think the same way, though. I think that we are different at this point and we need to find a way to communicate. [35:34] Speaker E: That goes back to our earlier conversation about engagement. Like I. [35:38] Mark: You know, my notes say that I love that hackler and everyone knows how this show works. I love that three piece is trying to give Brandon motivation on. I feel like Brandon's fallen asleep at the wheel with some of his little graphics. He wanted him to run the. [35:54] Chad: Everyone. [35:54] Mark: When I said everyone. But yes, everybody. The Wheel of Ice is next. Let's spin the Wheel of Ice. God damn it. [36:16] Chad: Oh, come on. [36:17] Speaker E: I was worried that I was supposed to have. [36:24] Mark: I feel like the. I feel like the. The makers. I feel like the makers part of it is rigged. It never seems to. It's always safe these days. [36:33] Chad: It's definitely not a 50. 50 split. That's what it should be. Half the time it should be safe and half the time it should be froze. [36:39] Mark: Chad, you can flip a quarter and it can land on heads 10 times in a row, you dumb shit. [36:45] Chad: JD We've done a hundred of these. There should be like at least 30 [36:49] Justin: where they're say that now, but we're gonna get to a point to where it's just froze, froze, froze, frozen. [36:53] Mark: You're gonna be saying, I'm gonna work on my Smirnoff. And what I would like. [36:59] JD: I would like you to kick off the next subject which you asked for. No, I have an agenda here. [37:04] Justin: Silent J stories with Shore. He's asked to go question in the Q and A. [37:08] Mark: Go ahead. [37:09] Speaker F: Well, bing, bing, bing, bing. Justin, you just. [37:11] Chad: Yeah, [37:14] Justin: Elizabeth, Bill asked is my freebie talking to asset managers or just insurance companies and record keepers? [37:21] Speaker E: I know we are talking to asset managers as well. So our goal again is to be that sort of infrastructure hub, no matter where the product is coming from, to make it easier for the record keeper. So I was in California last week. I had a conversation with two different asset managers. I've got schedules next week. Absolutely. [37:41] Mark: Don't waste Your time with Bill Shores. He works for some little unknown mutual fund company that no one's ever heard of before. [37:47] Justin: He says he'll be in touch. [37:49] Speaker E: Awesome. I can't wait. [37:54] Mark: Chad, you wanted to talk. You wanted to talk about something. I'm going to drink for this. Something I call. [38:05] JD: No, I don't call it. The industry calls it BOR And I [38:09] Mark: want to talk about EO oh, that's a check. Swing the second time strategies. [38:14] Speaker F: No, it's not. [38:17] Mark: Mark wants JD Washing down those smearing off with a little goose. Feels good. Feels good. Chad, why is this important? Why did you want to talk about it? [38:31] Chad: Well, you were looking for topics and it's not one that we've covered. [38:35] Mark: Honest answer. I meant set up the subject. [38:38] Chad: Okay, I'll set up the subject. I have a handful of advisor partners that never walk into a consultation with a prospect in an effort of moving the business. Their sole goal is to step in and say, look, someone's fallen asleep at the wheel and I will not. Let me spark what you have back to life. Let me work on the investment lineup. Let me get some participant engagement. Let me host an educational series. Let me get on the fiduciary view every year. And they broker of record everything that is their sole plan of attack every meeting they walk into, regardless of whether or not they like the record keeper that is in there. Most of these folks have been hugely successful and it's because they're really good at talking about their ability to make an impact and not, hey, I got to move you to somebody else in order to make. [39:28] Speaker F: But how are they staying efficient on the back end when they're working with 13 different record keepers and 12 different third party administrators? [39:37] Chad: Really good question. The folks that I have in this, that I'm working with in this kind of space, Mark, they're using all their own proprietary tools. They're not leveraging the record keeper. They've got Fi360. They've got an outsourced wellness program. They've got their own. [39:53] JD: Good question, Mark. And better answer, Chad 1. Mark 0. [39:58] Mark: Wow. [39:59] Chad: Here's the thing though. Here's my. [40:01] Speaker F: I have another question for Chad. [40:04] Chad: Okay, Mark, then I could ask mine. [40:06] Speaker F: Are you the one doing all the work in order to step in and provide the advisor the tools? [40:11] Mark: Okay. [40:12] Chad: No, not our normal process with these folks at all. They use me to analyze the document, try to show them if there's any weaknesses there or, or errors, but that's it. And then on the back end, three or four years later, if they haven't made the impact or they feel the costs are out of whack, that's when we get an opportunity. [40:31] Mark: And don't forget, don't forget, the 2.2.0 [40:34] JD: version of answering Mark's question is it may be disruptive for a little while, but they're going to do fiduciary review meetings. They're eventually going to benchmark and do a request for proposal and, and then [40:48] Chad: part of their process. [40:49] Mark: And then if they work with certain [40:50] JD: record keepers that they like for good, prudent reasons, they'll end up moving their clients to those, those products over time. And so it'll all sort itself out eventually. [41:01] Mark: I agree a million percent. [41:03] JD: I think if you're a financial advisor [41:04] Mark: out there, whether you're a rookie getting into this game, this is a phenomenal lesson, or your son has been doing a long time. [41:10] JD: I made this mistake all the time. My sales strategy was let me go [41:16] Mark: in and tell you what's wrong with [41:18] JD: your current program and then let me [41:21] Mark: show you a couple an apple, a banana and orange, that would be better. And let me dazzle you with the grass is greener and get you to move your plan. [41:30] JD: That's a lot of work. It would have been far better to go in and just say, look, your shit's fucked up, but we can fix it. All you got to do is bring me on and fix it all up. [41:41] Chad: Yeah. And the last point that I want to ask the question, Elizabeth, is often these plans are with a good provider. They're with someone that I would have sold on the last plan. [41:51] JD: Name me a bad provider. [41:53] Chad: I'm not doing that. [41:55] JD: I just don't even think it exists, to be honest with you, except for ADP and paychecks. You fucking. [42:00] Chad: Oh, there are a couple really struggling, [42:04] Mark: otherwise they're all good. [42:06] Chad: Why aren't more advisors doing this? Is it because they want to appease the wholesaler that's knocking on the door? [42:13] Mark: What? [42:13] JD: What did I do? [42:14] Speaker F: You just see the massive graphic. [42:16] JD: Oh, automatic data processors. [42:21] Speaker E: Well, I think naturally we want to say, hey, we can. You've got a problem and we want to fix it. And so I think that it's a pretty common approach and getting people to change their approach. I mean, we just saw seven ideas of how to get ready for selling season. And I don't think any of us thought they were horribly unique. But there are people that don't do them. So I agree with you. I think it's a great approach. And I can tell you, you know, working at A record keeper. When we found out that somebody had a new broker of record, there was always okay urgency to check and make sure we've talked to them about the financial wellness program. We're talking to them about these other things. So I mean I think it's a great wake up call and a great opportunity for that advisor to also build a relationship with the current record keeper and say, hey, here's the things I don't think you're doing. Let's get them fixed so we don't have to go out. [43:18] JD: Is that part of the problem too? Is that a lot of people that are going after new business even today, at least in the, the micro and the mid market, they're, they're trying to sell something cheaper. [43:31] Chad: That was the point I wanted to [43:32] JD: make that kind of has them fall into this strategy of showing different record keepers because they want to come in and go. You're currently at 1.1%. If you came to me, you'd be at 85 basis points. Like because they're such wimps, they can't, they don't have a spine, they can't sell their services and their value. They got to sell something that's cheaper. [43:55] Chad: But to those that don't know, in that scenario you go in and you benchmark and you go to the existing record keeper and say, look, I'm consulting on this client we're getting, we're taking over the broker of record. This is what we would see. They've been with you now and you haven't repriced. I'm in here as a fiduciary advisor. I want you to look at your profitability and tell me if there's room for you to have some concession. Almost every record keeper will, they don't want to lose the business. They've already spent the money to win and they need to be in line with the rest of the market. The problem is most advisors aren't even giving the current record keeper an opportunity to do that. They're just going in and saying the grass is greener over here, so let's go. [44:35] JD: I want to play a quick game but then I want to, I want to tackle. I have a few more questions around this and I want to get some Elizabeth's thoughts on them too. So let's play a quick game and hopefully I can remember what it is. I want to dive a little deeper. I want to talk about taking over broker of record and comp. So remember that for me, Chad, I've had a Smirnoff and A lot of vodka. [44:53] Mark: Today we're going to play an 80s trivia game. Clear alcohols are for rich women. I diets. What is. We're gonna play an 80s trivia game. [45:07] JD: Yeah, that's what we're gonna do. So I'm gonna ask you some questions. [45:12] Speaker E: I killed all my brain cells in the 80s, J.D. [45:16] Mark: i think a lot of these are pretty easy. We'll see. Okay, which video game? And you can play along in the chat bar. Just, Elizabeth, don't cheat. And look at the chat. [45:26] JD: Chat bar right now. [45:27] Mark: Okay, Elizabeth, promise me. Put your chat bar away. [45:32] Speaker E: Closing it. [45:33] Mark: Okay, which video game. [45:36] Speaker E: Hold on. It didn't close. [45:39] Mark: Was the most popular video game of the 80s? [45:47] Speaker E: Pong? [45:49] Mark: No, not Pong. [45:50] JD: Chad. [45:50] Mark: Any guesses? [45:51] Chad: I said Tetris. [45:53] Mark: Nope. [45:54] JD: Mark? [45:56] Speaker F: I don't think it's anything I actually know, but for some reason, I'm gonna say, like, Galactica or something like that. [46:02] JD: I think we're. I think. [46:03] Mark: Well, it's Mario. It's Mario Brothers. It's Mario Brothers. Yeah. That one might be a little hard. Yes. How about this one, Elizabeth? My favorite game. What? What is the name of the car in Knight Rider? Remember Knight Rider, the TV show? [46:25] Speaker E: No, I. I admit I have. [46:27] Mark: You remember that show, don't you? [46:29] Speaker E: No, because I have nine older siblings and one younger sibling. I. I know nothing from the 80s, even though I went to high school in the 80s. [46:36] Mark: Justin, did you know it before the chat bar told you? [46:39] Chad: Oh, for sure, Justin. For sure knew that. [46:40] Justin: David Hasselhoff. [46:41] Speaker E: Come on. [46:42] Mark: David Hasselhoff. What was it? [46:43] Speaker F: Hasselhoff was in Knight Rider. [46:47] Mark: What was the name, Justin? [46:49] Speaker F: He's. He's done more. [46:53] Mark: What was the name of the car, Justin? [46:55] Justin: Kit, I already said it once. I don't know if I can say it again. [46:57] JD: Oh, is that a. I think it might be. [47:00] Justin: Does anyone know? [47:03] Mark: It probably is. Did you ever see Hasselhoff? Did you guys ever. [47:09] Speaker F: 3. Three piece knows it. [47:11] Mark: Did you guys ever see Hasselhoff when he was in this closet eating his [47:15] JD: hamburger and he has wasted? [47:17] Chad: Oh, I think I do. Yeah. [47:19] Mark: You gotta Google that. Okay, when I'm playing a new drinking [47:22] JD: game, it's called every time I'm depressed, [47:24] Chad: I take a drink. That game exists. [47:26] JD: It's called alcohol. [47:29] Mark: Which iconic music product, Elizabeth, was released by Sony in 1980? [47:36] Speaker E: The Whackman. [47:37] JD: Yeah. Ding, ding, ding. [47:39] Mark: Mark will drink for that. For your correct answer, Mark will drink. [47:42] Speaker E: Here's some trivia in my ski jacket with three cassette tapes. [47:46] Mark: For years, these guys didn't have a Walkman because they weren't born yet. [47:49] Chad: I did. [47:50] Mark: Oh, I had a walk. [47:51] Chad: I did put the pencil in the [47:52] Justin: tape and you had to wind up your. [47:55] Speaker F: I had a yellow one. [47:56] Justin: It was yellow. [47:56] Mark: Oh, yeah, I remember the yellow. Supposed to be, like, waterproof, right? [47:59] JD: Like waterproof. [48:01] Mark: Yellow and black. Sport mode. I watched the new Top Gun yesterday with my wife. Phenomenal movie. Okay, which. [48:13] Speaker E: I gotta go. [48:14] Mark: Which 1983 Tom Cruise film. [48:18] Speaker E: Risky Business. [48:19] JD: Yeah. Good. [48:23] Mark: Featured Old time rock and roll by Bob Seeger. Well done. [48:27] JD: You did that before. [48:29] Mark: What was the highest grossing film of the eight? [48:36] Speaker E: Rocky. [48:37] Mark: No, it involved. It involved. It involved Reese's Pieces. [48:44] Chad: Oh, really? Extraterrestrial. [48:46] Speaker E: Damn it. [48:47] JD: Oh, I got that [48:53] Chad: for sure. [48:54] JD: I didn't realize all these answers were acronyms. Damn it. [48:59] Mark: Which American actress is well known for [49:03] JD: her workout videos in the 80s? [49:06] Chad: Oh. [49:07] Speaker E: Oh, damn it. [49:09] Mark: Hold on. [49:09] Speaker E: I know it. [49:10] Speaker F: Yeah, you just said it. [49:11] Chad: You just said it. [49:12] Justin: Oh, there's some other ones going on that might be better. [49:14] JD: Yes, I saw it. [49:17] Mark: Oh, stop. [49:18] JD: Stop looking at the chat. [49:20] Speaker E: It keeps popping up. [49:23] Mark: What song? [49:24] Speaker E: Good mark, but careful, you might develop something else. [49:27] Mark: What's this? One's a little tougher. What song performed by a Norwegian synth pop band made it to number one in the United States in the 80s? Oh, in the 80s, the band was called Aha. You know the name of this song? [49:48] Justin: Come on. [49:49] Speaker E: All my college friends are gonna be. [49:51] Mark: Chat bar is on it, bro. [49:52] Chad: They. [49:53] Mark: They know it. [49:55] Speaker E: Probably danced to it a million times in the middle of Iowa going to college. [49:59] Mark: But, you know, we need to figure out is, is it take on me [50:03] JD: or Take me on? I think it's the latter. [50:07] Mark: So, Bill, everybody said Matthew Webby. You all got it wrong. It's Take Me on. [50:13] Justin: You okay, the name of the song is Take On Me, but there's a lyric that says take me on. [50:20] JD: Well, yeah, the name of the song is take on Me. [50:23] Speaker F: Right, Both lyrics. Doesn't it? [50:25] Mark: The name of the song is Taking Me. [50:27] Justin: Take Me on. [50:28] Chad: Yeah, yeah. [50:30] Mark: It's easy. [50:31] Chad: One. [50:31] JD: I got two more. What 1985 film has features the characters chunk, mouth, data and sloth? [50:41] Justin: It's a booty trap. [50:43] Chad: Oh, come on. [50:45] JD: What? [50:47] Speaker F: I've never seen this. [50:48] JD: I've never. [50:48] Mark: I've never. [50:49] Speaker E: Listen, I was not watching movies. [50:52] JD: Oh, wow. Okay. [50:54] Mark: That's bad. [50:55] Speaker F: No, no. Hey, no wonder she's got a lot of money saved for her pension. [51:01] Mark: The answer is. The answer is Goonies. Do you know the Goonies slogan? [51:06] JD: Like their. Their chant? They say to the world, they're the Goonies. Oh, why? My God. Okay, last one, [51:16] Chad: That scene right there was filmed right off the coast of Santa Cruz. [51:21] Mark: Really? [51:21] Chad: It was. [51:23] JD: Which, which female pop artist had her first number one hit in 1983 and has become the best selling female artist of all time? [51:35] Speaker E: Madonna. [51:38] Mark: By the way, you want to see some, some weird stuff? [51:41] Speaker E: I got the questions right from high school and nothing from follow follow Madonna. [51:46] Mark: Follow Madonna on like Tick Tock or Instagram. It's, it's a little, little edgy, a little weird. Fun fact movies in Santa Cruz, Chad. When I was a kid surfing the river mouth right by my house, they were filming the vampire movie Lost Boys. Lost Boys. And so all the crew would come out surfing and tell me about their day of filming it and whatever. Anyways, okay, broker of record, you take it over. [52:16] JD: Doesn't it work this way? Aren't you basically adopting the compensation of the advisor that's existing and that's pretty much how it works, right? [52:25] Chad: Unless you change it and increase the cost or decrease the cost for the plan. [52:30] JD: But yeah, that's kind of my question is what would be your best guess? How many advisors do you think just say oh don't worry, nothing changes, you just need to sign here and I come on and I be your person and, and by the way, sometimes you [52:42] Mark: don't even know what the comp is. [52:44] JD: Do they like no. [52:45] Mark: And then what? They find out that it's, you know, not enough and they gotta go back to the client and isn't that a danger of broker of record? [52:54] Justin: You know, I would think it'd vary by the size of the plan. [52:58] Mark: What would vary? [52:59] Justin: If an advisor is gonna do that, take that approach or not? Am I wrong in that? [53:03] Chad: No, no, I think the ones that are going after BOR will take it on anything. And JD, to your point, I've had, gosh, I've had probably a dozen in the, you know, 12, 15 years I've been doing this where there's no comp, there's no advisor. They're still broker of recording it with no compensation in an effort to get the business find ancillary opportunities but maybe move it down the road as well. I don't know how their broker dealers allow that. [53:35] JD: I don't like Tony Davis's answer, you pessimistic guy. He's basically saying they're going to sneak it into the contract and bump it up on page 343. I do love Sue's hi Sue. I do love Sue's comment there. Like, I mean if you do your research, you should be able to get your hands on what. What the comp is before you take over broker of record. [53:58] Mark: But I definitely know in my career, I felt like that was a common thing where advisor would take over broker of record. They had no idea what the comp was, and then they'd be in a weird sticky situation. I agree with you, Chad. That broke of record is phenomenal. But I think it's fun to kind of bring up some of these potential [54:14] JD: pitfalls so people are aware of them. Chad's nuggets, if you will. Thank you, Brandon. I wanted that. [54:27] Speaker F: You were just making sure Brandon wasn't sleeping. [54:30] JD: He's on it. He's on it. Okay, let's vote for chat bar champion and. And then in the after show, Faith, [54:39] Mark: I swear to God, I'm going to hop on doordash and send you some pizza. [54:42] JD: I just can't multitask. You know, us white boys, we can only do one thing at a time. [54:47] Mark: Your vote. Your vote for chat bar champion. Justin McNeil. [54:53] Justin: Going three piece. Good to have him back. Get a lot of good stuff. [54:57] JD: Oh, Faith took off on. She's like, I didn't get my pizza. I'm out of here, bro. [55:04] Mark: Okay, three piece. Three piece. [55:06] JD: Yeah, he hasn't. I feel like he hasn't been around in a while. It's good to have him back. [55:13] Mark: Road guy, your vote. [55:17] Speaker F: Mr. Bill Shore is. [55:19] JD: God damn it. That's who I was gonna vote for, Chad. [55:22] Chad: I'm constantly conversing with him all night. So I'm going, hawker, Guy Hawker. [55:29] JD: Guy Hawker's been very productive, very active, very intelligent in the chat bar. Well done, Guy. Okay, special guest, who is your pick for the chat bar champion finals? [55:44] Speaker E: Michael Webb. [55:48] Speaker F: He was my second placer. [55:50] Mark: Webby. Webby. [55:53] JD: I'll throw. I'll throw Tony in the mix, bro. I was. Tony deserves it. He's. Nobody's gonna vote for him, but, you know, get in the final. [56:03] Chad: Tony has fallen into that group with Webby and Hackler where there's just such high expectations now. It's hard. [56:11] JD: I don't necessarily put Tony in that group with Hackler. Those cushions, guys, he's been getting involved. [56:18] Justin: You know, it's always been good. He's been getting better lately. [56:21] Mark: But you're right. Hackler and those guys are like. They're like Kelly Slater in a. [56:25] JD: In a surf heat. They actually got a 9. 5, but the judges give them a 75 because they're like, ah, we've seen [56:31] Mark: you do it a million times. Like, you know, all right, Throw it up there. You and the audience can vote and choose the winner who will get pizza next week after the show ends and they've already bailed on the show and don't care. [56:47] Chad: I think it's time to switch the pizza up and send, like, Chinese food or just randomly sending different foods. [56:54] JD: Okay. [56:55] Speaker E: Cheese basket. [56:56] Justin: Maybe have a meal plan for the month. We release it and says Chinese this week, Italian this week, pizza this week. [57:02] JD: That sounds like fun for me to do. I like that. [57:05] Chad: Sounds like a lot of work. I think perhaps rope guys should do it. [57:09] Mark: Looks like we got a battle, people. Looks like we got a battle. So get your votes in. Get your votes in. [57:14] Justin: Can we get a slide graphic that shows things voting like I do. Like. Well, I know you do, but can [57:20] Chad: we get on the screen? [57:23] Mark: No. Welcome. [57:26] JD: Welcome back, three Piece chat bar champion. Let's figure out in the after show [57:33] Mark: what kind of weird food we should [57:35] JD: send him next week. [57:38] Chad: We've seen Three Piece do the worm. We need to send him worms. Gummy worms. [57:44] Speaker F: Just a bag of gummy worms. [57:46] Mark: Elizabeth, thank you for being a part [57:49] JD: of our little dealio. We appreciate it. Good luck to you and my criti, my creedy, my crudy, my crew. [58:05] Mark: By the way, your CEO. Oh, no, we're good. We're good. [58:09] Chad: We're done. [58:12] Justin: No, he's got to do it. [58:13] Speaker E: You're me, but you got. [58:16] Justin: You're not entered the after show yet. [58:18] Mark: Please tell your. The leader of your company that I, I like him better in the longer, [58:25] JD: curly hair that I saw on YouTube. He needs to get back to that look. And I'm thinking in today's fashion sense, maybe throw the mustache in there with the long curly. [58:37] Mark: And I, I think if he can accomplish those two things, I see a bright future for the company. If he doesn't, all bets are off. I don't know. Thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate it. Thank you out there in the audience for wasting another Thursday night with us. [58:55] JD: We will head to a quick little after show and discuss some things. Elizabeth, if you want to stick around with us, you can. But you know what they say. If you don't, then that's fine too. We're just gonna talk a bunch of shit about you while you're gone. [59:08] Chad: So either way, we've got a lot too. [59:11] Mark: Brandon, play us some music while I go.