Record Keeper Competition & Advisor Positioning

[0:01] JD: I could give everyone my medical history now. [0:03] Chad: I had a small step. [0:06] JD: There we go. [0:21] Justin: Nice. [0:28] JD: Welcome to Retireholics, everybody. I'm pouring a little Coors into my robe guy mug. Do you know what they call these on Yellowstone? Yellow jackets. [0:42] Justin: Yellow jacket. [0:44] JD: Welcome to Retireholics. My name is James Douglas Carlson. I'm joined here by Silent Jay, Justin McNeil, Chad Nerdy, Chad Johansson, and everybody's favorite. [0:58] Chad: Wait, no, it's just Joss, Josh Itzel, the freaking Gary via 401k. Mark Palmini. [1:07] JD: Rogue guy couldn't make it today. Couldn't. Coincidentally, it's the opening day of the at. Did he still call it the AT T? Pebble Beach Pro Am. [1:17] Justin: Pro Am, yeah. [1:18] JD: He is out there schmoozing with defined contribution investment only people. [1:24] Chad: And there he had a. Had a little message he wanted to send all his friends in the chat bar. There he is schmoozing it up with the first eagle to find contribution investment [1:35] JD: only guy, Matt Hunter. Hashtag conflict of interest. [1:40] Chad: Here they are. Yep, having fun. Not everyone's not licensed and everyone has [1:46] JD: the same commitment to this show that [1:49] Chad: I do that Chad does. You know, Apparently Justin called me today. He wants to bail out next week everyone. So let him know what you think about that in the chat bar. He wants to go snowboarding. [2:00] JD: Fucking pussy. [2:02] Justin: I asked for permission. You didn't have to say yes. [2:04] Chad: That's on you, Justin. [2:07] JD: Let's get right to it. [2:08] Chad: We've got a guest. Can you intro the guests and can [2:11] JD: you out there, can you please, can you rate Justin on a 0 to 10 on how he does? I'd very much appreciate it. Take it away, Justin. [2:19] Justin: All righty. Today's guest is another one of those rubber band women of our industry. She cut her teeth as an actuarial student after graduating from Notre Dame with a degree in mathematics. A couple of years later, she decided to see what the fuss was all about being a TPA after realizing how boring we were all prior to JD Entirely flipping our industry upside down, she thought she'd check out the record keeping platforms for a bit before settling into her current role outside of the career world. She fancies cooking, shopping and is also quite the adventurer. Having hiked Mount McKinley and Kilimanjaro. She resides in Carmel, Indiana with Aaron and their two kids, Cameron and Claire. But before I announce her name, since a guy sitting in robe guy's spot loves the spotlight so much, he'll probably get mad if I don't say anything. This is Josh. He writes books. He'll probably tell you that too. One of the partners and directors of retirement plan services at Shepherd Financial, Leah Sylvester. [3:10] Leah Sylvester: Thank you. Thanks for having me. [3:13] Chad: I have the same. [3:15] JD: I have the same question as Jason. What's a rubber band woman? I don't know that term. [3:21] Justin: Well, I had to change. You ever heard of the term rubber band man? Like someone who does everything. I couldn't say rubber band. [3:27] Justin: I haven't heard that. [3:28] Justin: Actually I learned that on the baseball field with you. [3:31] Justin: Dude. [3:32] Chad: Leah, we. [3:32] JD: Oh, Brandon gives you a six, five. We got a seven. Seven. Seven from web. [3:37] Justin: I haven't not been turning around my best work. I apologize. [3:40] JD: Kate Clark's feeling generous with. You can't just give out tens like that. Kate. [3:45] Chad: Leah, we're going to play some games today. [3:47] JD: You're going to play a few things [3:48] Chad: as we go along and I want to make sure that you understand these games. We will be spinning the wheels of ice. You do not have to worry about that. [3:57] JD: We'll be playing chat bar champion. So if you could keep your eye on that chat bar because you will be voting for someone into the semifinals. [4:05] Chad: Then all those people out there in [4:06] JD: the chat bar will vote for the actual winner that gets all the cash and prizes. [4:11] Chad: And there's no rules that. [4:12] JD: Leah, whatever floats your boat, whoever you like in that chat bar, you vote for them. [4:16] Chad: More importantly, from your standpoint and you trying to keep some type of soberness. [4:23] JD: If that's a word you need to understand. Acro. Sin. If you use an acronym or an [4:28] Chad: initialism, you must drink from your penalty drink. [4:31] JD: I know you got something. [4:32] Chad: I'm sipping on the kettle one today. [4:36] JD: Chad's. [4:37] Chad: Chad and his upper respiratory infection are going to medicate with some makers. And what do you got there? [4:45] Leah Sylvester: So this is some single barrel whiskey that made here in Indiana, right here in Indianapolis. And this is actually a custom bottle that was made for our firm. [4:56] JD: Wow. [4:58] Leah Sylvester: We got to actually pick a barrel and we made bottled it and tells a little bit about our story. [5:03] Chad: Did you ever think you'd be swigging [5:04] JD: it straight from the bottle because that's [5:06] Chad: what you're going to be doing tonight. [5:07] Leah Sylvester: I did not [5:10] Chad: and that's about it. [5:11] JD: Oh, I got a couple little other fun games for you that we will play. Those will be later on in the deal. I want to push headlines off for [5:19] Chad: a moment, not do headlines and instead let's pivot. We finally got a decent listener line call and so I thought we could. Brandon, play the listener line call and [5:32] JD: then discuss amongst ourselves. [5:35] Chad: What do you say, Brandon? [5:36] JD: Listener line JD Says with fingers crossed. [5:44] Speaker F: Hey, what's up fellas? Long time listener, first time caller. Five eight, a buck 70. Just wanted to call in and get your opinion on Empower rebranding from Empower Retirement to just Empower Wearing my tinfoil hat As a financial advisor, I see this as the first step of many to come of getting into more than just Quite simply the 401 space and trying to become the place where everyone goes to aggregate their accounts and assets. I don't love the move. I think it speaks clearly of their intentions to corner the market and push out advisors. Love to hear your guys take. Thanks fellas. [6:32] Chad: Well, thanks to whoever that was. [6:35] JD: It sounds like this gets under his skin a little bit. [6:39] Chad: Leah, I'll put you right on the spot. As an advisor your firm, do you [6:46] JD: have concerns, worries about record keepers attempting to get into other things. Wellness, financial planning, monetizing the participant? [6:59] Leah Sylvester: We do, but I also think that there is a lot of money to go around. So I think that having solutions, whether that be advisor driven like ourselves and I think what advisors do is very different than what Empower Solution or Fidelity Solutions bring to the table. I think there's choices for everybody out there and I think we all have to be able to play nicely in the sandbox together. And I think it's important that that the empowers of the world understand how to do that. But I do think that there are plenty of sandboxes out there for all of us to have a space in. [7:38] JD: What a very fair and nice answer. Strategic. [7:43] Justin: We got to dig into that a little bit though and it surprises me a bit Leah, because my initial thought would be most advisors would be adverse to this kind of change because the services that they want to deliver are the services that most are building their practice around. It's the personal financial planning side of things. Things. Isn't that a direct conflict for what you all are trying to offer to the 401k participants you'd be helping? [8:07] Chad: I would back chat up to ask you Leah, if like if you're trying [8:11] JD: to offer it to your clients, don't you think they get a little confused when they see your record keeper maybe trying to offer the same services? [8:19] Leah Sylvester: I think it's really more. I think there is confusion and I think that's why your local advisor will always have a place. Because I do think that that human touch and that human interest is the biggest differentiator between these robotype solutions that record keepers are trying to offer. I actually think that they actually help advisors in certain ways. That they get people starting to think about the things that we want to when we can't reach every million participants out there. But when the time comes, somebody still wants to work with a human being. And I think they want to work with a human being that's not on the other side of an 800 number. [8:55] JD: Yeah. Seems that Leah's approach is more of a hey, like a competitive one almost in that I'm not afraid, like I'm going to offer my own services, they'll have value and so I'll compete where I'm going to toss it over to id. So now I much like this caller. I think there's also a lot of advisors across the country that say, hey, wait a second. For years I've been funneling business towards you as a partner of mine through record keeping and for a 1k now here comes this opportunity for me to do what I do as a financial advisor and potentially offer more services to my clients. And now the whole industry is trying to compete with me. And Empower is not the only one. But this removing retirement on the end is no coincidence. If you read the press release, it's exactly what it looks like. They're saying they're trying to get into more than just retirement and this new moniker will help them do that. But Josh, speak on behalf of advisors across the country. I'm thinking there's quite a few that are a little more pissed off than Leah is. Yeah, [10:02] Speaker G: I think the model moving forward is going to be coopetition. [10:06] Justin: Right? There is, [10:10] Speaker G: I think and part of this probably will depend on scale of advisory firm as well that may have more sway with record keepers. But there are going to be some where it's record keepers agree, kind of hands off. Hey, if you want to take the lead advisor, you take the lead. I think there are going to be other ones where record keepers say, hey, we're taking the lead on this. And I think there'll be other situations where it'll be like best man or woman wins. I actually think what Empower is doing probably affects retirement plan advisors less. I think it affects the wealth. Firms that are primarily wealth, that don't have relationships at the plan level and that have been used to getting money in motion, capturing that over time. I think what advisors, and if I'm a wealth shop, this is why I want to get into 401k is quite frankly, retirement plan advisors are trying to get into the wealth space. Record keepers are trying to get into the wealth space. That's where really good private wealth focused Firms have lived. If I'm a private wealth firm, I'm sticking my head in the sand. If I don't think that Empower, Fidelity, Vanguard, you name it, they may be starting with the 50, $100,000 account balance that no wealth firm wants, but they're crazy if they don't think that. The vast majority of RIAs, you have some really high net worth, ultra high net worth. But the vast majority of private wealth rias, their bread and butter is that 500,000 to $3 million private client. And they're nuts if they don't think that these big record keepers are going. Absolutely. I don't know what the acrosym was, but that's who they're going to be going after. They want to go after the bread and butter of those wealth firms. [11:57] JD: That's interesting in my opinion. [11:58] Chad: That's interesting because I was just going [11:59] JD: to say to you, I was going to be like, wait a second Josh. Like these are when empowered by his personal capital, like it's built for these really tiny accounts that I don't think these registered investment advisor shops across the country are really going to care about. But then you're saying, hey, wait a second JD this is just the start. They're going to want to go after those bigger accounts eventually chase the dollar. [12:21] Speaker G: Look at personal capital. Personal capital, they were a firm that did about $90 million in private client revenue. Personal capital was genius because they built this digital platform and they got a ton of people on it. I signed up for it. In fact, I still use it to aggregate. For a long time I literally was getting a call every week from one of their advisors trying to set up a one to one with me. And they were a wealth first shop that built tech in order to be kind of tip of the spear. So it's not like they are only experienced with the small accounts. Like they were a big private wealth firm. [13:01] Chad: So just so you know, Josh, usually [13:05] JD: like you're stepping in for robe guy. [13:07] Chad: Usually when we ask rogue guy's opinion, he probably has about eight words. [13:12] JD: Maybe eight to 12 words on average is what he uses. [13:16] Chad: Leah, hold on. [13:18] Justin: Don't change subjects because I want to make one quick point. J.D. and I brought this down for that point. This is the third attempt, I'll quickly read. This is our third attempt to contact you. Please contact our office within 10 days of receiving this letter and then it continues to go on because your home warranty policy is expiring. This is in part my fear of the 401k space trying to sell ancillary services based upon data. I bought a home. I don't have a home warranty. They send it to me on a bright pink notice three times saying that I have to call and if I don't, I'm going to be in trouble because my warranty lapses. [14:01] Chad: You're worried about participants getting spammed with all kinds. [14:04] Justin: I'm not worried about the spam. I'm worried about them getting sold. I'm worried about them getting sold things they don't need because they're not spending the time, effort and intelligence or have someone like Leah that cares about them to help educate them on what they actually need. And that is my biggest fear. I don't need a home warranty. I don't yet I'm getting this. That makes it seem like if I don't, I'm breaking the law. And I'm afraid that we're going to, we're going to stoop down to some levels of trying to sell participants stuff that they don't need in fashions. [14:34] JD: Like, that's a, that's a good tinfoil hat to give. [14:36] Speaker G: I'm a big if I'm a good advisor, though, you know, whoever builds the most trust at scale with a client, like, that's who's going to be the first person they come to. Like, if I'm a good advisor, like, I never worried about what the record keys were doing, honestly, because I knew if it came down to a cage match, you know, we were going to win. I think who's really at risk is probably the, you know, the average, the mediocre advisor. [15:02] JD: Okay. But it's still a problem and I still feel like we need to keep our eye on if, if 401k becomes the Trojan horse, which it looks like it will be for access to participants. Chad's doomsday theory is a potential outcome where they're just getting obliterated with all these different things. Leah, let me kind of shift to similar subject, but a little different. Let's stick on the record keeper kind of motif. [15:29] Chad: Would you mind sharing with me the audience? [15:32] JD: Like, what are the typical record keepers that you guys are partnering with? [15:38] Leah Sylvester: Well, I think. Yeah, so I hate to say it, but we work today with over about 22 different record keepers. And a lot of it's because of. Of takeover business things that we've inherited, just different situations. But are probably our top five that we work with are empower Fidel, a census principle. And that's the standard. [16:03] Speaker H: I'll drink for this. But Is a census any kind of acronym? [16:07] Chad: No, no, just a made up name. [16:10] JD: That should be a next one. Can't make up names. [16:12] Chad: No. That's good. I appreciate, appreciate you sharing that, Leah. I want to ask you all one [16:21] JD: quick question and then we can kind of move on to some headlines. [16:25] Chad: Chad, I'll go to you first. Who do you think will be the [16:32] JD: most successful record keeper of 2022? Who do you pick to win the Super Bowl? [16:38] Justin: Mind you, what's your metric? [16:40] JD: My metric is new plans one and in 2020 from plan sponsor magazine, that's [16:46] Chad: the newest data we have is from 2020. Number one was Newport with 17k paychecks, then ADP, then Guideline, then American Funds, [17:00] JD: a census, Hancock and Power, Principal, Trans Am. [17:03] Chad: Who do you think is going to win the super bowl this year? [17:07] Justin: Geez, if you're going strictly on plan count, I think the Newport Group statement is inaccurate. It's got to be something to do with the acquisition, the merging. I'm going to say it's going to be, it's probably going to be paychecks out of that group in terms of plan count. They're going to swallow up so many of the state mandated plans right now. It's going to be ridiculous. [17:27] JD: Isn't Paychex kind of been the dynasty of winning new plan? Haven't they won every year forever? I'm with you. I don't know where that Newport information comes from. I got to check that out. But hasn't Paychex been doing that forever? Leah, if I took paychecks and ADP out of the mix, who do you think is the coolest super bowl champ of 2022 of record keepers? [17:49] Leah Sylvester: Oh goodness, that's a tough question. I actually will say I will go with that Ascensus Newport combination there. I think in their small market and what we're seeing from the things that they've been adding to their product lineup, I see that whole fee concept too of a per head charge really resonating out there. I think the low cost deal people are looking for the Walmart solution and they do a pretty good job of being a good Walmart. [18:20] JD: I love that answer. And you clearly drank the Kool Aid. Didn't you work at a census? And you're still beating that drum. [18:27] Leah Sylvester: Well, as an advisor, I will tell you they make it the easiest, by far the best record keeper for making investment changes. You click three buttons and it's done. So I love that. [18:39] JD: And they do have flexibility in price. They were one of the ones first where you could get kind of like you said, a true open architecture where your fees were less of an asset based fee and more of a base and a per head. [18:52] Chad: And I know you and I've had conversations about that all the time. It's so. So I'll put you less on the. [18:59] JD: No, I'm gonna put you on the spot again. Who's your pick for Super Bowl 2022? [19:06] Speaker G: You know, I think you always gotta throw the payroll vendors in there, whether it's an ADP or a paychecks. I think if you factor in maybe if the vanguard, a census product counts for a census. You know, I think and with Newport, I think the biggest challenge with the Census Newport is integration. And so are they going to lose any momentum just in terms of trying to get those businesses put together. But I'm not sure I have a [19:33] Chad: better answer than Silent J. What vendor will you sell the most [19:39] JD: plans with in 2022? [19:43] Justin: I need to look at who's in the partition list. [19:45] JD: There's no list. [19:47] Justin: You in 2022, it's probably going to be Hancock. [19:55] JD: Okay, all right. Just curious. [19:57] Chad: Thought I would agree with that. [19:58] Justin: Hey, can I ask, can I ask a follow up to Josh's and Leah's point, the micro space is typically not sold by advisors who can be fee based. It's one of the issues I run into with a Census Vanguard Newport Group style product is that many of the folks we're working with need to either use an insurance chassis or need to be working on a program where they can get paid from the 12 B1s if needed. And it makes it hard to sell in a Census Newport style program. You think that's changing? Is the registered investment advisor community coming down for the micro space? No. So how are they going to end up selling that? Because the state mandated areas, there's going to be a lot of plans going in that got 3, 5, 8, 10 participants and it's going to be the insurance folks. It's going to be the folks who are going to write with Hancock and are going to write with a paychecks. [20:56] Chad: That's good insight, Chad. You're just saying, hey, in this sub 10 million there's just a lot of [21:05] Justin: so many startups written a lot of registered rats. [21:08] Speaker G: I wouldn't say that's micro. I mean I would, I wouldn't say sub 10 is micro. I would say sub 10. It's down to, I don't know, two, three, maybe a small. [21:17] Justin: Yeah, yeah. I'm thinking plan count wise. [21:21] Leah Sylvester: That's why I'M gonna go with Mike in the chat. And I knew you were the pulled employer plan. I do think that that's another way for registered investment advisory business to be gathering in that space. [21:37] JD: Interesting. [21:39] Chad: I won't comment on your pooled employer plan bullshit. Okay, let's go to Headlines. [21:44] Leah Sylvester: To your prior show. I knew that was a way to get dinged. [21:49] JD: Yeah, it's a farce. [21:51] Chad: Your brain has been invaded by the aliens. You've been mind warped, Leah. [21:56] JD: I feel bad for you. [21:57] Chad: Let's go to Headlines. Headlines. [22:04] JD: Which some refer to just as secondhand. 401k retirement plan news in the podcast world. Our very own Will Hackler was on John Sullivan's 401k podcast. [22:19] Chad: It's a bit of a love fest between the two gentlemen, but it's worth a listen, you know, if you don't have anything else to do, which you probably do, so I don't know, maybe don't listen to it. I don't know. [22:31] JD: But it's up to you. [22:36] Chad: I love you, Hackler. I'm just kidding. [22:38] JD: I'm just kidding. [22:40] Chad: I was hopping around on the Internet [22:43] JD: and I saw a women in Retirement conference. Is that what the C stands for? Women in Retirement conference. Ad for an upcoming virtual webinar with Susie Orman. Leah's nodding her head in agreement. I dug a little deeper and I found out that Susie Orman has partnered with some people and started a company just in the midst of the pandemic called Secure Save. And it's an. [23:17] Chad: An emergency savings deal where you run it through the. [23:23] JD: The employer signs up and through an app, you know, technology web, the employer [23:29] Chad: can match the employees, set goals through the app. [23:33] JD: Employer matches and it connects to your bank account. You can set defaults and all this kind of stuff. So I have a couple questions. Right? And it costs the employer $3 per month, so $36 per year per participant. Right? [23:52] Chad: So I don't know, you know, think [23:54] JD: $1,200 a year or something. [23:56] Chad: They have a minimum of $99 per month, so $1,200 a year is kind of their minimum, paid for by the employer. Two questions, and I'll first start with you, Leah. [24:09] JD: I know Suze Orman gets a bad rap in financial services sometimes. [24:12] Chad: I feel like if you mention her, the typical default response from advisors is like, bah, humbug. Why is that? And do you agree with my statement there? And do you have any insights on why you think advisors are so negative? [24:29] Leah Sylvester: Oh, boy. That's, I think, at the heart of what Suzy's trying to say it's not all that different from what we say. It's just how she says it and how she goes about doing it that gives financial advisors this image that especially female advisors that were all like Susie Orman, which is not the case. [24:49] Chad: Yeah, I think maybe it's a bit of a hater thing going on there. I mean, I don't feel like she says a lot of inaccurate things. I think part of her I feel like you lose. [25:03] Leah Sylvester: Which her message is because you're so lost in her personality, you're so distracted by everything else going on around. [25:08] Justin: There's a lot of people like that in society right now. [25:11] JD: I feel like. [25:12] Chad: I feel like she, because of her [25:14] JD: platform, she has to simplify things. [25:17] Chad: And so, you know, she's talking to a general audience. I think if you ask the general people out there in the world, they obviously love her. [25:23] JD: That's why she's popular and they love her because she's talking about complicated things and simplifying it. I think she might has historically slanted a bit anti advisor. [25:34] Chad: Almost kind of like warning the general population, hey, watch out for these people. They can rip you off. [25:40] JD: I think that might be another reason why advisors get a little upset. [25:45] Chad: But Women in retirement conference, not bad advice. [25:50] JD: Right? [25:50] Chad: Well, to watch out. Yeah. [25:52] Justin: Jd, just. Just so I can get some of the nuts and bolts on this because I'm trying to read it on the side. So it's a savings plan that the business chooses to open up. A participant at no cost gets to put their money into it. The employer can match or will match. [26:06] Chad: Can. [26:07] Justin: And is it a deductible expense for the employer? [26:10] Chad: Well, I was gonna ask you that. That was my next question. I don't know. I was gonna ask the audience. [26:14] JD: I'll ask the chat bar. [26:15] Chad: I'll ask it. So apparently Chad doesn't know what's the taxation on this stuff. [26:20] JD: Is it all just after tax? It's gotta be, right? [26:23] Justin: I mean Beck Webby said no. I don't know if he was referring [26:26] Speaker G: to that or not. [26:28] Chad: So when you look at it and when they advertise it, Chad, there's a couple like videos, they definitely treat it like a 401k where the employer works [26:38] JD: through their payroll to deposit money on behalf of the employee. [26:42] Chad: I'm not a tax expert. [26:45] JD: I'm just a surfer who owns a TPA shop. Oh shit. I'll drink for that. [26:50] Chad: But I don't think we've got any rules around that allow it to have [26:54] JD: any type of tax Special tax treatment. So it's gotta be just a typical after tax. But. [26:59] Chad: Okay. I'm going to go to Leah. Leah, your firm shepherd does other things. [27:07] JD: Wealth management. I see insurance on the website. [27:10] Chad: You've got to be a fan of emergency savings accounts. [27:14] Leah Sylvester: Absolutely. [27:15] Chad: How do you feel about some outside tech like this? This could be an advantage to you. It could be something that you part clearly their message to women in retirement conferences. Because they want to partner with y', all, I'm guessing. [27:28] JD: So anyways, what's your take on that? [27:30] Leah Sylvester: You know, I think that these types of solutions are very important for financial advisors to be in tune with because I do think placement of the right solution with your plan sponsors is very important. That's probably the biggest question we get as as advisors. You know, I did a session at Napa with my girlfriend Erin hall on this is just how financial advisors continue to have to dig deeper and expand our knowledge base. Oh, shoot. [27:55] Chad: National. [28:00] Leah Sylvester: So we were asked all the time, what are. What are employers doing out there to solve for the student loan debt issue that we're seeing? How do we solve for emergency savings? Where are these automated things? I'm reading these things in the headlines like Secure Save by Susie Orman. How do I incorporate this into my business? How do I meet these needs of our employee base? So I do think that there are a lot of different offerings out there. And as a financial advisor in this space, I think it's knowing those solutions and being able to help consult on them. Is your complete value add. [28:32] Chad: Yeah, I got excited it. So when I saw it and I looked at some of the apps and the videos, I thought, okay, this is kind of fun. This is neat. And by the way, they do push towards the employer on the homepage of the site. If you're just a random person and you bump into it, you can say, hey, I'm interested. And what you're basically doing is telling them who your employer is. And then they go nudge your employer and say, hey, Joe Smith wants you [28:58] JD: to add this to the plan. Which I thought was pretty ingenious. [29:01] Chad: But anyways, the tech of like setting a goal and sitting down with employees and go, look, you can use this [29:07] JD: app to say, hey, I would like [29:09] Chad: to have eight months of my expenses saved up in an emergency savings account. And this app can kind of really help plan it out for you. Set your goals, track your progress. And then to Chad's point, your employer [29:24] JD: can add to that, which. This sounds fun. [29:30] Chad: Chad's going to get in the details. He's really worried about, which is great. Go there, Chad. You're worried about the details. It's 1200 bucks a year at a minimum. [29:39] Justin: Details. As much as I am trying to figure out its functionality, like we've seen some other tools roll out, right, that take kickback rewards from purchases you're making and pushes them into your 401k. Like, there are some really neat tools out there. When I look at this, I see it's helping people save, right? That's the benefit of it. It's helping create an emergency savings account. If there is no match, there's essentially no cost. There's no deductibility reason for the business to own it. It doesn't look like there's any investment vehicle on the side of it. They're talking about accessing the money at any point, which I love. But what are they doing with the money while it sits in these accounts? Because it's not hitting your bank, it's not hitting your retirement account. It's sitting somewhere. And I'm sure Secure Save is leveraging it just like a bank would. So something is happening on the back and I don't see any disclosure or comments about what that is. It seems like it's an advisor's education tool to tell people where to help help them save, where to spend their next dollar. And emergency savings is a crucial one. But I'm not sure why you need to pay somebody else to essentially create technology to do that. [30:44] Chad: I love you, Chad. Your. Your brain works the same way mine was when I was looking at it. I went deeper than you because I had more time. I know I just threw this on you. I'm sorry I called you a hillbilly. I don't even know what that meant. I was tripping because they. [30:58] JD: I don't even believe they're holding the money for you. I think they're putting it in your [31:02] Chad: own bank account, which to me kind of tripped me out. I'm like, well, what's going to stop me from just spending it out of [31:10] JD: my own bank account on something? [31:12] Chad: Just because your app says I got an extra 1200 bucks in there, but. So we need to learn more. But I definitely sit on your side of pessimism a little bit, Chad. I'm excited by the tack. [31:22] JD: I'm excited by the concept. [31:25] Chad: I'm not so certain that it's necessary [31:28] JD: and it might be better for Leah or these, you know, the hundreds, thousands [31:33] Chad: of advisors looking to it. [31:35] JD: So for advice to just say maybe I just build it myself, you know [31:39] Chad: what's what's the harm in trying to help 30 people create an emergency savings account? Do I really need this app and [31:46] JD: the fee structure that goes along to. [31:47] Chad: I don't know. But I just want to bring it to everyone's attention. [31:49] Speaker G: You know, would be interesting just to see. I mean the most valuable asset for payroll companies is float. [31:54] Justin: Right. [31:55] Speaker G: I mean that, that there's huge money in flow time. [31:58] Justin: Yeah. [31:58] Speaker G: But you know, I would say, I think the way Leah's thinking about it is the right way and I think advisors need to do this more. Think about yourself more as kind of architect or general contractor. Right. There's certain things where you can be the, you can be the sub yourself and do. But sitting in the role of more of GC for your clients and figuring out needs and then, you know, this idea of I need to build it all myself, I don't think is always a great model. It could be more of you accrue goodwill as the advisor to consult on and say, look, what are the different needs that you have for your business and your people? And let us, here's what we do. Find the tool and let us find and vet the solutions that solve that need. [32:44] Chad: And we can, that's gonna be the future. [32:46] Speaker G: But we don't have to deliver it ourselves. The other thing you get is, is you get somebody else's throat to choke if it doesn't work right. If you build it yourself and you don't do it that well and it doesn't work right. [32:55] JD: You blame it. [32:56] Speaker G: They're pointing the finger at you as opposed to you can just kind of plug and play. [33:00] Chad: That's the future that I think we're seeing and that's the future that I'm going to love to see is where [33:03] JD: the advisors in that, that leadership role of figuring out what tech works best for their clients. [33:09] Chad: Leah, let's get to know a little bit more about you, your firm and kind of your day to day, if you don't mind. So give us a quick overview of Shepherd Financial and then I'd love to kind of understand the size of the firm, number of employees, how many plans [33:25] JD: you guys are running, the different services you offer. Give us a little taste. [33:29] Leah Sylvester: Sure. So Shepherd Financial was formed in 2015 with six employees. Two books of business joined together. We had about 70 plans. No, maybe 80 plans at the time. And now we service 250 qualified retirement plans, 3.1 billion in assets and 30 employees, all here in Indiana. We have offices in I think five different locations now. So between Indiana and Louisville being our other target market. And we're a team. Our huge team approach, that's what really makes us different. 30 people is a lot of people, but we really do work very hard together. And I think that's what makes us very unique is how much we do not things on our own. We most certainly sell against the one and two woman shops because we feel like our bench of resources is unlike anyone else. [34:27] JD: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [34:28] Chad: The more team approach, [34:31] JD: how many of [34:32] Chad: those 30 focus in the retirement plan [34:36] JD: side of things, you think? Ballpark? [34:39] Leah Sylvester: Yep. Probably 25 or so. [34:42] JD: Oh, okay. [34:43] Chad: So hey, that's a lot for that many plans. But then they're also doing like wealth [34:49] JD: management stuff or something. [34:51] Leah Sylvester: And some of those people go back and forth. [34:57] Chad: You yourself, what does your Monday, Tuesday, [35:02] JD: Wednesday, Thursday, Friday look like? [35:03] Chad: Are you just bringing in new business? [35:06] JD: Are you servicing existing business? Are you just looking at operations high level? Like what's your job description? [35:12] Leah Sylvester: D All of the above. I do all of that. I have a book of about 50 clients today that I am the point of contact on. I service those relationships. I help really from an operations perspective. I really am helping develop the new services that we provide to our plan sponsors and participants every single day. So we are always trying to evolve and not remain status quo. So whether that's looking at something like Secure save and how that could be something a part to be looking for as a part of our practice, whether that's taking a look at the latest DOL numbers and trying to make sure we're fully audit ready for all of our clients. Ah, I keep doing this. There's just so many things from an operations perspective and that's probably where my heart really lies, is just trying to find continuing to evolve and find ways to make life easier for our clients. [36:07] JD: What do you guys use for like fund analysis? FY60 retirement plan advisory Group. Like what do you guys use? [36:16] Leah Sylvester: We use envestnet. [36:18] JD: Okay. [36:20] Chad: And are there dedicated people in office [36:23] JD: that put together your fiduciary review materials [36:27] Chad: for you when you go service those 50 clients? [36:30] Leah Sylvester: Correct? Yep. We have a whole support team that builds it out. We use Red Tail and are big believers in their workflows and we have an assembly line production of just every task that we do. So we love it if somebody changes an investment in a plan, somebody kicks off a workflow and all the steps are taken care of. If there's a plan design change, we're working closely with our third party administrator partners and making sure that all of the I's are dotted And T's are crossed and we need to systems and tools like Red Tail to be able to make sure that we don't miss, [37:06] JD: miss anything, doesn't fall through the cracks. [37:09] Chad: With 250 plans, what do you. [37:13] JD: When you look at like 20, 22, what's a goal in terms of new business? Like, are you trying to drag in 22 more plans? How many? [37:22] Leah Sylvester: 32. [37:23] Chad: 32 is the goal. Very specific goal. [37:26] JD: Okay, we got it. Perfect. [37:27] Chad: She's an actor. [37:28] Leah Sylvester: Tell me if I'm wrong, Steve. I think I heard 32. [37:31] Chad: 32 more plans. And I don't think we got a vibe on this. [37:35] JD: What's the size? [37:36] Chad: Like, where are you. What are you guys looking at in [37:39] JD: terms of size of plans, assets? [37:41] Leah Sylvester: I think the average plan of ours is about 15 million in size. [37:44] JD: Okay. [37:45] Leah Sylvester: So we'd like to stay in our target market. [37:47] JD: Yeah, about 15 million. That's perfect. I love that space and that size. There's a lot to do there. Okay. Very, very cool. [37:56] Chad: Are you doing when it comes to [37:58] JD: education, the old school pizza in the back of the room, two liters of Coke. [38:05] Chad: Everyone's sitting in there in a PowerPoint [38:07] JD: deck partnering with or not partnering with the record keeper. What does Shepherd's employee education meetings look like? And I guess it's change in Covid dammit, but tell me what those look like these days. [38:20] Leah Sylvester: So I feel like we have our own retireaholics team in house. We have a sister team that hosts monthly webinars and they do so very much in this type of style where we're really trying to reach people in [38:32] JD: a way that drunk when they do [38:34] Leah Sylvester: this, they're drunk over lunch. I don't know. They could be drunk. I let them. But they really try to reach the audience by being just having a conversation about whatever is the topic. We really try to think of things that are beyond just the retirement conversation, like understanding your credit score and cybersecurity and things like health savings accounts, emergency savings, those types of ancillary benefits that we're talking about. And we really are trying to make those back of the break room meetings more interesting as well. We always try to know our audience. And so there oftentimes isn't a PowerPoint because most people are just turned off immediately by a PowerPoint. It needs to be more of a conversation. And how are we going to engage with this group? Whether that's, you know, we have a manufacturing company that makes caskets all day long. They're pretty depressed about most of the day. So we want to make sure that we're their bright light in the middle of that of the afternoon. And how can we make this not as the worst 20 minutes of their life? So we do a lot of ways to engage a lot of videos and make our own videos in house. We have a whole video creation team because we really believe that yes, the 65 year old who struggles to send a text message communicates one way and the 22 year old just out of college doesn't want to pick up the phone ever. We're not going to order something from a restaurant if I can't do it online. So trying to come up with as many custom solutions as we physically can without breaking the bank or breaking our people's lives. [40:11] JD: I love that. [40:12] Chad: First of all, you hurt Chad's feelings [40:16] JD: when you talked so negatively about PowerPoints. [40:19] Chad: He's a huge sell. [40:21] Justin: It's Excel that I love, but I [40:24] JD: love that Covid kind of pushed us to the obvious. And I know this has been said before, but to really see it live [40:32] Chad: and in action and realize as an advisor, I'm going to use video to educate employees and how I can do that at such a better scalable strategy than what we were doing before. The people pizza in the back of the room and the PowerPoint just. Yeah, it makes me feel really excited about our future. [40:50] Justin: You can be honest and let everybody know that you never did pizza. You did McDonald's, you did $75,000. [40:57] Chad: That was the one time. I can't tell you how many clients I used to go to. Chad with me with the advisor and the plant sponsor would be like, are you buying pizza? [41:07] JD: What's the deal? [41:08] Chad: You buying pizza? And to your point, Josh, it's. So that was all they really wanted from me as a fiduciary. They just wanted lots of pizzas. I was happy to pull out the credit card and do it. [41:19] JD: Let's. Let's just. [41:20] Chad: Let's bang in a bunch of fun all at once here. Okay. We've been talking a lot. It's time to play some games. The first thing I want to do, Brandon, is spin the wheel of ice. [41:34] Justin: Grab the bottle. [41:35] Justin: Oh, that's a good point. [41:37] Justin: Josh in there. [41:41] JD: You gotta be kidding me. Give me everyone five weeks in a row. Everyone. [41:48] Chad: It's been a while. [41:50] Justin: I know. [41:51] Justin: Please be safe. Yes. [41:54] JD: I have a brand new maker, Brand new makers. [41:56] Chad: Didn't have to open it. And then wait. [41:59] Justin: This was the first bottle of liquor I've ever bought on the retireholics budget for the show. [42:05] JD: Brandon. Nice. [42:07] Chad: So it hasn't been too bad. [42:08] JD: I feel like I haven't lost him forever. [42:11] Chad: Brandon, after you finish pounding that, I would also like to do a little public service announcement while I drink my Smirnoff. Here it is. Maya. Robe. Guys, daughters, cookies. Girl Scout cookies time of year again. And so I think we've got a [42:32] JD: little video we can play for them. Brandon, am I right? [42:35] Speaker I: My name is Mike and we're selling Girl Scout cookies. Go to my website and you'll see all the different kinds of cookies. My favorite is the Adventure Hills. We have one new one which is the Adventure Frills. I hope you could buy some of the Adventure Fools. And you can also raise money for the animal shelter too. Thanks for supporting me. [43:00] Chad: Thank you. Maya. [43:02] Justin: Asking. [43:03] Speaker G: I miss having little. I miss having little kids. [43:05] Justin: Now when I see. [43:06] Chad: Can we. Can somehow we figure out how to [43:09] JD: put the link in the chat bar or something? [43:11] Justin: Do you guys remember what we did last year? The chat bar jumped in and hit the cookies. [43:16] Chad: Maya. [43:17] Justin: Like hundreds of people right there. [43:19] Chad: Brandon, put the link so you can buy cookies from Maya. Maya crushed it last year, so she's got big expectations for all you out there. Don't let her down. That sweet little girl. [43:29] Justin: What did she say? [43:30] Justin: What's her favorite? [43:31] Justin: What did she say was her favorite? It's a new one. I never heard that's new. [43:34] Chad: I didn't even understand that I was [43:36] JD: drinking a Smirnoff Adventure. [43:38] Speaker I: Hi, my name is Mike and we're selling Girl Scout cookies. Go to my website and you'll see all the different kinds of cookies. My favorite is the Adventure Hills. [43:49] Chad: We have one Adventure Hills or something. [43:52] Speaker G: They're adventurefuls. I'm buying goals right now. [43:57] Chad: Leah. We're going to play a game in the retireholics world there. We don't live in this everyone gets a trophy kind of space. When you're here, there are winners and there are losers. And you're going to be the first one to decide. We're going to throw a few in front of you and you're going to tell us which one's the winner and [44:14] JD: which one's the loser and why. [44:17] Chad: Brandon? Any one of them. [44:18] Speaker H: I can do that, but I can't play your song anymore. [44:21] Chad: That's fine. [44:22] JD: Don't play the song. [44:23] Justin: Okay. [44:26] Chad: All right, we got two people here. I want to know which one of these people you love and which one of them you just fucking hate. [44:34] Leah Sylvester: Oh, I can't. They're both winners. This is not very nice and why [44:40] Justin: you have to pick. [44:41] Leah Sylvester: I gotta go with my local girl, Mickey. I'm sorry, Daniella, but Mickey, she can throw back a mean bourbon. She's the winner. [44:49] JD: Nice. [44:50] Chad: I thought it was going to be because of her excellent tpa ah, shit [44:53] JD: services, but no, it's because of her bourbon drinking. [44:56] Chad: Chad, do you have a. You have a vote there for your [44:58] JD: favorite of those two? [44:59] Justin: I mean, they both can throw them back and. And are fantastic, but I'm going to have to say Daniela's comedic relief is just too much to pass up. [45:11] Chad: My vote is for Mickey for her [45:13] JD: constant support of the show. She's been there since the beginning, I feel like, and she's an absolute student. [45:20] Chad: Justin, no doubt. [45:22] Justin: I'm going with Daniela because I'm still scared of her from forgetting her intro. [45:27] Chad: Josh, your vote doesn't count. You probably don't even know who any of these people are. So we'll move on the next one. [45:31] Speaker G: Daniela, because she makes the chat bar spicy every week. [45:35] Chad: She does, she does. All right, Leah, let's throw another one at you. See how you do. [45:39] Leah Sylvester: I do not like this game. [45:40] Chad: Oh, this one's a no brainer. No brainer. [45:46] Leah Sylvester: Oh, well, you know, who do we got here? How do you say Mother Teresa? I mean, how can you say no again? You can't vote her a loser. [45:57] Chad: You're voting for Mother Teresa. [45:59] Leah Sylvester: Well, I feel like as great as a Catholic. My mother would not be very proud of me if I didn't say that. [46:05] Chad: Well, unfortunately, that was the incorrect answer. It's always Frederiche. All right, we can go to the next one. We can go to the next on Brandon. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go straight. I'm gonna go straight to Justin on this one because I'm sure he has an opinion. And then we'll let Leah kind of catch her breath. [46:30] Justin: Daniela. [46:31] Justin: Okay, Is that Rogan on the right? [46:33] Chad: Yeah, it is. [46:34] Justin: Okay, who's on the left? [46:35] Speaker G: I have no clue who that is. [46:36] Justin: I'm saying Rogan anyways. I like Rogan. Oh, Jesus Christ. [46:39] Chad: Yes, this is Neil Young. This is the Spotify drama. [46:42] Justin: This is I am Rogan hands down snowboard. [46:44] Speaker G: Justin, do you want. [46:46] Chad: Justin, do you want to. Do you want to offend some people [46:50] JD: politically and tell us why you're for [46:52] Chad: Rogan instead of Neil Young? Maybe not. All right, Chad, are you on the Rogan camp or the Neil Young camp? [47:03] Justin: I'm going to go Joe Rogan right now. Did you see Nevin's comment that if he's rallying up this many people, then we all got to Be listening to him because there's something going on there. [47:12] Justin: It's freaking awesome. [47:13] Justin: He's an intelligent human being. It's fun to listen to. [47:18] JD: All right, it's. [47:19] Chad: So where are you at on this? [47:21] Speaker G: I'm. I'm going Rogan. [47:22] JD: Everyone's Rogan. Okay. [47:24] Justin: I don't know you. [47:25] Justin: By the way, I'm Rogan for. [47:26] Justin: Hold on, did we get Leo or. [47:28] Chad: No, I'm Rogan for free speech. And I do listen to him quite a bit and I feel like. And I have listened to a lot of the COVID style shows and I think he's always pretty clear about like that he's just kind of throwing out some stuff and doesn't necessarily know. [47:43] JD: But I also do understand how people feel like, oh God, people are just going to fall out. Follow whatever he says. [47:49] Chad: Leah, the video that he just put [47:51] Speaker G: on, the nine minute video, it's pretty damn good. The other day, which was. [47:55] Chad: Well, yeah, it doesn't have to be political. Who's your winner and who's your loser? [48:01] Leah Sylvester: I guess I won't break trend. And I'll say Rogan, but I actually don't know who either of these people are. So what I know. I'm like, what do I say? [48:10] Justin: You know, Joe Rogan. [48:11] Chad: So funny. That's so funny. [48:14] Justin: I think my. [48:15] Leah Sylvester: So embarrassed right now. [48:18] Chad: I won't name the judgment. Yes, Brandon. [48:22] Speaker H: I'm going the other way because Joe Rogan had Carrot Top on. That's unforgivable. [48:29] Chad: Carrot Top on the show. Brandon doesn't like that. [48:32] JD: I think we've got one more. [48:36] Chad: I remember correctly. I forgot about this one. [48:43] Leah Sylvester: I know all these people. [48:45] Justin: Look at that picture of Nevin. Piggy is scared of Graff. [48:50] Chad: So you know he's going Graff. Cause that's old school. He has nightmares. That's old school wakes up. We'll start with Leah. Leah, who's the winner and who's the loser here? [48:59] Leah Sylvester: I'm going with Brian as well. And I think for the same reasons. Fear factor. [49:05] Chad: All right, Idso, who's your winner? [49:07] Speaker G: Nevin 100% twice on Sundays. [49:11] Chad: Especially based on that photo right there. [49:13] JD: That's baller. [49:15] Chad: Justin. Justin, freeze. Or did I freeze? [49:21] Justin: He did freeze. [49:23] Chad: He's scared to. All right, Chad, who's your winner and loser? [49:28] Justin: I'm Nevin all the way. [49:30] Chad: You're Nevin all the way until I die. And I think, Josh, you got my number right from the beginning. [49:39] JD: I. Mr. Graff is phenomenal human being. And I will always support Mr. Graff in whatever he does. In any way, shape or form. Okay, we'll move on. [49:47] Justin: J.D. i had to. And Mickey's here. She saw it. I had to, to. To welcome him to the stage when we were at Annual. And it was. It was a little fearful, especially after a long night of drinking. Mickey, because I think we went back. We left that suite at like 4am so introducing him the next morning was a little rough, but he was a little terrifying. [50:13] Chad: Just so you guys know, when we had to Nashville to do our live show for American Trust Conference, Graff will [50:22] JD: be there as a speaker. So we will have to confront him face to face. We'll see how he feels about that. Let me ask you. [50:31] Chad: Shit, I don't even know. [50:31] JD: I was gonna look what it stood for. I'm sure Itzo can tell us or the chat bar can tell us. Leah, Chad, Justin, not you. [50:41] Chad: It's. [50:41] JD: So if I say the word tamp. Oh, yep, yep. [50:48] Chad: And this is in the financial services space. Do you know what that means? You have a. [50:53] JD: Do you have an understanding of that? [50:55] Justin: You guys talk about today? I've heard it about it. I've heard that term before, but no, I don't. [51:01] Chad: Let me take a guess at it. [51:02] Justin: Our managed portfolio. What'd you say that a Morningstar managed portfolio? [51:07] Chad: No, no. [51:08] JD: Churn Key Asset management program partner. Am I getting that right? Anyone in the chat bar? Come on now. [51:15] Justin: Yep. Program says Holly. [51:18] Chad: So when you are a financial planner, it's not uncommon for you to outsource your investment decisions as a firm to [51:31] JD: a drink for it. To a tamp. Okay. [51:36] Chad: Because you don't. Josh, I've been keeping you quiet for a while. [51:40] JD: Explain why. It saves you some personnel and some people. Right? Give us some details on this. [51:45] Speaker G: Yeah, I mean, I think it's much more popular in the wealth world where especially, you know, it used to be where the value add for advisory firms, it was like. It's not all that different than in the retirement world now. Right? It used to be 90%. It was about the investments. Much like in the retirement world, investments probably make up 10 or 15% now. And it's much more about comprehensive plan consulting. Same type of thing on the wealth side, where wealth firms probably 80% of the work and the value is on the planning side and a much smaller percentage on the investment management side. And so a lot of wealth firms, what they've done is said, hey, we're going to outsource the investment management to a third party who can, you know, they've got the staff, they can do the billing, they can do the reporting, they can do the rebalancing. And you know, you either kind of carry that at. Call it 30 or 40% of cost and overhead on your books, or you outsource it. Kind of focus on what your core and kind of your highest and best use of value is and you, you outsource that. And so that. That's popular in, in the wealth world, especially firms that or heavy planning and still need somebody and they need professional management, but they're willing to, you know, get that off the books, if you will. [53:01] Chad: Yeah. [53:03] Justin: In hearing this now and seeing some of the chat bar, I have quite a few, I'll say a handful, a heavy handful of advisors that are trying to get SEI and trying to get. I got a drink for that one, don't I? And trying to get. There's another name that was mentioned. Assetmark. There was another one. Starts with a b. Inside the 401k space heavily. Because they're so private wealth focused now. I'm learning, watching the chat bar and hearing you talk, Josh, that what they're trying to do is take what they're doing for their private wealth clients and push it into the K space. Makes a little more sense, Brinker. That was it, Bill. Yeah. Makes more sense now. [53:42] Chad: I wanted to bring to you the [53:44] JD: concept of a tamp for 401k. [53:50] Chad: I love that Heidi said horrible acronym. And I get where you're going with that. [53:53] JD: Heidi. I don't. Yeah, I don't know who created this [53:55] Chad: one, but I first heard it from Marco and Ryan Rink when we had them on the Two west guys and they referred to their solution as this. And I have to be honest with everyone, when I heard it, the acronym, I was like, I don't know what you're talking about. [54:12] JD: Like, it doesn't make any sense to me now. [54:14] Chad: I get it. [54:15] JD: So let me paint the picture for you. [54:16] Chad: And I think given that Leah has such an organized internal operations and a team and kind of a bigger shop of 30, I think it'd be interesting to hear her kind of insights on it. But imagine I'm an advisor. [54:32] JD: That's not you. [54:34] Chad: And I don't necessarily have all those skills. And don't forget where we're heading this world of trying to fix the coverage gap and all these new ten thousands or if you listen to Mr. Graf, hundreds of thousands of plans that might be coming our way. [54:51] JD: Would it not behoove this advisor to say I don't have all those skill sets? Might I just outsource it to someone else. [55:01] Chad: And just like Leah's firm, they can [55:04] JD: do the fund analysis, they can prep for the fiduciary review meeting, they can do the benchmarking, vet out the Suze Orman's, vet out the, you know, all those types of things. And I can just be more kind [55:19] Chad: of the workhorse that shows up to those meetings. [55:22] JD: And I got to learn. [55:23] Chad: Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I don't need to know stuff, but I learned how to deliver those fund reviews, deliver that agenda, you know, start the conversations with the plan sponsor. I mean, could this be a new look for 401k in the future? Or does this just offend the fuck out of you, Leah? [55:41] JD: Like, what are you talking about? We need to do this ourselves. [55:44] Leah Sylvester: It doesn't offend me because I actually think that there's a lot of different types of advisors and a lot of different types of identities out there. And how are you going to grow and scale your practice? And what do you really believe in? What is your value add? So I actually think that exploring ways to make your practice more efficient and what do you do well and how are you going to focus on doing that well versus a million other things that might be dragging you down? Maybe this is the turnkey solution that helps you be better and expand your business based upon what you have going on that you do really well. I think other practices won't want to. They want to keep that all in house. They want to keep the control over that. I really think that there's room for all of that. It really just depends, again, I think, on what you're trying to accomplish, who you're trying to be in the marketplace and what customers you're trying to attract. [56:36] Chad: Very well said. [56:36] JD: But you're not against that there's a place for this? [56:39] Leah Sylvester: I'm not against it at all. I don't. I definitely think that there is, Chad, or. [56:43] Chad: Go ahead, Josh. And then I want to. [56:45] Justin: No, I was just going to say, [56:46] Speaker G: I think Leah's point is, and what she said is a really good one, is really thinking about what's your core and where's your focus. And then, you know, this is not all that different than other businesses and other industries is find your focus and then outsource, you know, everything that isn't central to your core. And so I think that's, you know, there is a lot of room in the sandbox. I saw that in the chat bar. I think that's. That's a good one. I think. I think what's interesting is most of the tamps that are out there are in and even though there's. There are some in the 401k space are more kind of investment focused. I'll drink to that. [57:22] Chad: Right. Because that's where it comes from. I get that. [57:25] Speaker G: But not really. I don't think like could there be an opportunity where it's more of plan consulting focused if we've seen and it's easy to do the investment piece but more of the plan consulting to be able to deliver that turnkey basis? Could there be a real opportunity again for firms that say hey, we don't want to own that and bring that in house. We just kind of train us how to do it, give us what we need and we'll deliver it because we really want to manage and run the relationships and empower us to be smarter than we are. [58:01] Chad: That's kind of where I was going [58:02] JD: to take it to Chad and Justin over there is that it's not new to our industry to have outsourced services. [58:11] Chad: I mean we've seen it with 338, [58:13] JD: we've seen it with 316. [58:15] Chad: And you know the difficulty with 316 we run into. Right. That still exists today, which is 1316 isn't necessarily the same as another. They do different things. And so I think that if you look at these new solutions not saying the acronym, you're definitely have to look [58:32] JD: at how they differ from each other. [58:35] Chad: But what excites me about is based [58:37] JD: on Leah's comments is the one that really acts like a real legit back office for someone because Leah's got all that. But there's going to be a lot of people that don't. I think I saw Hackler in the [58:49] Chad: comments saying always be good closing, which is another concept which is you don't [58:54] JD: have time to sit at your office [58:55] Chad: and prep for fiduciary review meetings and put your stuff into Fi360 and pump out the results and take a look at the newest emergency saving. You got to be out there closing new business. [59:06] JD: If you're a two person shop, three person shop, I would think, Chad, you might think this would be really cool for the marketplace that you work in. [59:17] Justin: For sure 100%. I think there is certainly a fit, especially in the marketplace that like you mentioned we work in which is really that micro small space. [59:28] Chad: So we'll keep an eye on that and see what types of solutions come out and then let's be smart about it as consumers. [59:35] Speaker G: I saw Something in the chat bar where it said somebody had a comment about more fees. Like, I don't actually think it needs. There needs to be more fees. I mean, at the end of the day, agreed painting cost as an advisory firm. Again, you look at most advisory firms in the retirement plan business, and let's be honest, like, well, run shouts, it's still a 20% margin business. [59:55] Justin: Well, and if you're siloing off a portion of your typical role, then there's room to create that efficiency. [1:00:04] Chad: You could argue the opposite. And so you could argue that fees could be less because I don't. Or you could because I don't have to hire internal people to do those roles. I might be able to outsource it to someone who's more efficient at it and doing it at a lower rate than I would have to do it myself. So the door doesn't have to swing to the right. [1:00:25] JD: It could swing to the left. [1:00:27] Chad: We'll take some of this into the after show, assuming Leah stays with us. [1:00:30] Justin: Yeah, there's a couple good things. Questions that came out of the chat bar I want to poke Leah with, [1:00:34] Chad: get them noted down. Chat. [1:00:35] JD: And I'll give you that power in the after show. [1:00:38] Chad: Chat bar champion. Leah, we need to vote the victor of tonight. And who's your vote to put someone into the semis? [1:00:49] Leah Sylvester: Mickey. [1:00:54] Chad: Daniela. Daniela guessed before Will says Shocker. Mickey. Mickey. Okay. [1:01:01] JD: Has Mickey won before? [1:01:02] Justin: Yes. [1:01:03] JD: Yeah, she has. [1:01:05] Chad: Chad. [1:01:07] Justin: There was no doubt tonight. It was hack for me. Hackler was all over the place. [1:01:11] JD: Hackler. Okay, Justin. [1:01:14] Justin: I had two neck and neck. I'm gonna flip a coin real quick to see who it is. Greg. [1:01:20] Chad: Who is it? [1:01:21] Justin: Greg. [1:01:22] Chad: All right, you drink for that. Chad. [1:01:26] JD: It's. [1:01:27] Chad: Who's your vote for chat bar champion? [1:01:29] Speaker G: I might be going. Webby. [1:01:31] JD: Wow. [1:01:32] Speaker G: He's always super thoughtful in the chat bar. [1:01:34] Justin: Yeah, he overuses somebody. [1:01:37] Justin: Gets it. [1:01:37] Speaker G: But other than that, he's very thoughtful. So I'm going Webby. [1:01:40] Justin: He says that about me once in a while. So don't say he overuses it because I take it personally. [1:01:44] Speaker G: Well, we just know that he's not perfect in his decision making. [1:01:47] Chad: You know what I feel bad about? I know that Jason is, like, hard on the trail of getting all four mugs, and I feel like it's going to take a tough performance, a really good performance for him for me to [1:01:59] JD: vote for for him, but I'm just an asshole. [1:02:02] Chad: I'm gonna vote for Heidi. Heidi's my vote for her. I'll drink for it. Her Tamp comment. And also for a cool little video she did out on LinkedIn for us, [1:02:13] JD: which I thought was really nice. [1:02:14] Chad: So there you go, Brandon. You got Hackler, you got Greg, you've got Mickey, you've got Heidi, and you've got Webby. How did I fucking remember that? [1:02:24] Justin: You haven't drank enough. [1:02:26] Chad: My Covid brain is going away and [1:02:32] JD: I just drank from my penalty drink on accident. [1:02:35] Justin: Hack. I'm going to get your question in the after show if Leah sticks around because that's a really good one for her. [1:02:43] Leah Sylvester: This chat is extremely intense. I would just like to say I'm completely distracted. [1:02:48] Chad: Oh, that's great. I'm happy to hear you're looking at the chat. I just thought you were bored as all hell with this. [1:02:53] Justin: He's got. [1:02:55] Leah Sylvester: What is going on with all this? Like, pick a person. What? [1:03:00] Chad: Okay, the votes are coming in. Can you guys see the votes coming in? [1:03:05] Justin: No, we can't just wait for your. Your answer at the end. [1:03:09] JD: It's pretty tight. [1:03:11] Chad: Even though Heidi's name was misspelled, she's still hanging in there. Brandon, I'm kidding. You got a lot to do. Doesn't matter. You don't have to worry about those things. [1:03:19] Justin: Well, I just sent him some things too, which you'll see in the after show. [1:03:25] Speaker G: Buy those Girl Scout cookies, by the way, man. [1:03:27] Chad: Yeah, buy the Girl Scout cookies. The winner is Mickey. Of course it is. Of course it is. [1:03:33] Speaker G: Congratulations, Mickey, for Amanda. [1:03:35] Justin: Amanda's not even here. She wasn't even on the list. And someone voted for Mickey. [1:03:41] Speaker H: Yes, Brandon, My Zoom is having a little problem. I've had like three weeks of been a challenge to put names into Zooms. [1:03:49] Chad: You did good. [1:03:49] Justin: Mine's got a problem tonight too. [1:03:51] JD: You did good as always. [1:03:53] Chad: Congratulations. Mickey, let us know what mug you would like. Would you like a Chad, a Justin, JD or Mark? And then, yeah, DM me your address. [1:04:07] JD: Mickey, send me your address. [1:04:09] Chad: I want to know where you live. Leah, thanks for hanging out with us. We really appreciate it. You've been awesome in this. What did you call it before the show started? This boys locker room. [1:04:23] JD: Men's locker room. [1:04:25] Chad: We really appreciate you hanging out. You were open and honest with the [1:04:29] JD: audience on things like the record keepers and your firm and how you do things and I really appreciate that. We're going to do an after show. If you'll stick around with us, it would be awesome. If not, we totally understand. We'll just talk shit about you. But either way, thank you so much [1:04:47] Chad: out there in the audience. [1:04:48] JD: Thanks for tuning in again. [1:04:50] Chad: Love you guys. Mark Palmini. Whatever. [1:04:55] Justin: Let's find out where Mark is. J.D. you'll see in the after show. [1:04:58] Chad: Maybe we can get an update from Mark. [1:05:00] Justin: Coming in? [1:05:01] Justin: No. [1:05:01] Chad: And did I get Mickey's Mickey did you? Tell me what mug? I get drunk and I forget and I can't go back. Let me know what mug. [1:05:10] JD: Get it on the chat bar. [1:05:11] Chad: Someone let me know what Mickey chose. Let's play some music. I'm going to go to the bathroom and I'll be right back.