Producing TPA Model: William Hackler on Plan Design & Scale

[0:00] William Hackler: This is Archie running off the track. [0:03] Chad: I have prepared. [0:04] Justin: This is great. An intro for today's guest. [0:06] William Hackler: So [0:09] Justin: after spending the past couple of days with this man. [0:14] Mark: Oh, my goodness. [0:15] Chad: This is the best I know. [0:17] Justin: I can now confirm with the utmost confidence that our suspicions over the last year and a half are true. Folks, we are in the presence of a living legend. Yes, not only is he strikingly handsome, but he rocks the shorts and tucked in tee combo with such pizzazz. [0:33] William Hackler: Yes. [0:34] Justin: That even Richard Simmons would be jealous. He's a man who possesses a rare talent of being able to both out drink the entire table, yet still remain perfectly aware of the time and put himself to bed at the appropriate time. Most would call that an alcoholic. [0:52] William Hackler: Functioning now. [0:53] Mark: Functioning. [0:56] Justin: He's a 401k fix it guy. The brain behind IPS, ladies and gentlemen. Will hack [1:02] Chad: Brandon, if you had it, insert dumb and dumber. You've totally redeemed yourself because Justin has come back in a big, big way. Well done. [1:14] Justin: Oh, I forgot one thing. [1:18] William Hackler: Jason. [1:19] Justin: Jason says hi. [1:20] Chad: All right, you know, two out there in the audience voting Justin 0 to 10. Rank him on how he did with intro. I personally give him a 10. Well done. To add. I think to set it off, what I'd like to do is just get right into Wheel of Ice. Let's spin it. [1:35] William Hackler: Oh, my God. See this? [1:37] Chad: Let's spin the Wheel of Ice. Start out fun, then we'll dive into some 401k subjects. [1:41] Mark: Safe. [1:41] Chad: Who. [1:42] Mark: Wait, who's Will with? [1:43] William Hackler: Oh, yeah, pick. [1:44] Chad: Pick a. Retire to be lined up with on the Wheel. [1:47] William Hackler: Oh, Brandon. [1:49] Chad: He's on there. [1:49] Speaker E: He's on there with B. [1:51] Chad: See? By the way, the producer's probably more hungover than anyone, so I. [1:57] William Hackler: I just [1:58] Chad: looked over at him behind his board and bloodshot eyes searching for me. Here comes the wheel. [2:13] William Hackler: Okay, very good. [2:14] Chad: Very good. [2:14] Mark: You guys do not have a session in two hours. [2:16] William Hackler: It's a legit wheel. [2:17] Chad: All right, well, Chad does that before his speaking presentation here in a bit. I don't typically do this. [2:25] William Hackler: Froze. [2:26] Chad: What? [2:27] William Hackler: Oh, no, you got the froze. You got the froze maker, too. Where's the cup for that? Yeah, he was already going. [2:35] Mark: No, no, no. [2:36] Chad: Someone's drinking some makers. Okay, I don't typically do this, but I think this is smart. For today's conversation. I want to ask you about your firm. The name of the firm, when it started, number of clients. Give us a. [2:51] William Hackler: Can we just say that the word [2:53] Speaker E: firm is stupid and we shouldn't use that. [2:55] Chad: Save it for labor. So help everyone understand. I Mean you're a producing tpa. Tell us about the size of the. [3:03] William Hackler: Oh, oh, and you said I gotta be really? [3:07] Mark: Justin did. [3:08] Justin: It wasn't going yet. [3:10] Chad: All right, well, come on. [3:12] William Hackler: So my whole firm story starts with my father. He started two weeks after the Employee's Retirement Income Security act of 1974 was brought in. Wow. For it. He started an insurance company doing that, then went into into practice. [3:34] Mark: You can use them all. [3:36] William Hackler: With a large insurance producer for it running the third party administration firm. Wow, this is gonna be really hard. [3:44] Chad: Good so far. [3:46] William Hackler: And did that for a few years. Got tired of listening to my mother complain about being away from the family. One of the many reasons they're divorced, back up to Massachusetts, hung out his [3:58] Chad: own shingle for it. [3:59] William Hackler: And then 26 years ago, he suckered me into the family business. Okay, suckered. [4:05] Chad: Give us a taste of like how many clients. [4:08] William Hackler: So we have roughly 450 plans that we're running right now. [4:11] Chad: And you're the advisor on how many of those. [4:14] William Hackler: And we're on the Advisor on about 250. [4:17] Chad: So for everyone listening in, I think to me this is the most exciting part. Will services 250 plans as an advisor, which to me seems like a pretty big task. And so we'll learn how you do that as we go through the show. Size of clients, like how many employees and assets. Typically the average. [4:39] William Hackler: Yeah, so we average a little bit over a million dollars per plan for it probably, you know, we average in that, you know, 40 to 45 participants per plan. [4:49] Chad: Chad, if anyone out there doesn't know what is your definition of a producing third party administrator? [4:55] Mark: A compliance administrator that also is the advisor and is bringing in most of the business with them being the advisor and the compliance administrator. [5:05] Chad: Okay. And you consider yourself to be that. [5:07] William Hackler: Yeah, because you know. So we are the retirement plan specialists for integrated partners. [5:12] Chad: Good. [5:12] William Hackler: I stayed off of that acronym too. [5:14] Mark: Thank you. [5:16] William Hackler: That you appreciate that. And there's 160 financial planners throughout the country and we help them manage their retirement plan business for them. [5:27] Mark: Yeah. [5:27] Chad: So it's kind of unique in a way. I can't say that you don't work with advisors and help advisors because you do in a unique type of way. [5:35] William Hackler: Yeah. [5:35] Justin: So how does that relationship like with the other advisors go? Is it sometimes rocky at times? Are they sometimes hesitant to work with you because of that in fear or [5:44] William Hackler: is that not so? Luckily, you know. So I have the endorsement from the management team, the executive team and integrated partners for that they endorse me to all These advisors for it. [5:53] Chad: You're part of the family. [5:54] William Hackler: Part of the family. And, and some of them have literally came over, you know, said this to me because they want to work with me. So they've actually come to the firm because, you know, it's like they have plans that they're dealing, they don't know how to manage them. You know, they still want to be part of the, you know, still have them on the books. Right. So we share in that compensation, sharing that revenue for it, and we help them manage it. My team helps them manage the, their plans. [6:20] Mark: Do you, you bring on business as a compliance administrator that you're not the advisor on? [6:25] Speaker E: Right. [6:25] Mark: Because you only, you're the advisor on 250 of your 450. [6:28] Chad: Well, in this group, sort of, kind of, not really. [6:32] William Hackler: So the reason that other group exists is because we acquired a firm for it. [6:38] Chad: So I wanted to back Justin's question. Will does not solicit business from advisors outside of that little group you're talking about. [6:46] William Hackler: Yeah. [6:47] Chad: So he doesn't really have that issue of, well, I'm not going to work with you because you're a competitor. You don't call on those. [6:52] William Hackler: I don't call on them for it. There are some that are friends of mine that come to me, you know, for that piece of it. So we have some that are not in the family, as you would call it, but the majority of them are in the family. [7:05] Chad: As a non producing tpa. Ding, ding, ding. I could see how there could be some advantages to that. Do you feel like as a producing TPA you get to be the advisor and the third party administrator at the same time? That creates some, some advantages for you, some advantages for your clients. [7:27] William Hackler: Yeah, I think it's a lot because, you know, you talked about it in your session the other day about the data and the information. We have a ton of data. [7:36] Chad: Right. [7:36] William Hackler: We have a ton of the information those participants will call our office. We can handle what, 90% of that stuff because we have all that information for it. We have licensed people on our team that can answer those education questions. Obviously we have the compliance administrators that can, you know, answer the technical questions for us. [7:56] Chad: Yeah, it's one shop, a more cohesive kind of solution. [7:59] William Hackler: That's how. So my father built the practice on the fact that he saw a lot of advisors not doing it right because they didn't know enough about it. And he said, I could build this little value proposition of you make one phone call that that employer makes one phone call and we have Those answers. [8:19] Chad: That's so funny. I think most people know my father started our firm in 1975. So here's your dad and my dad. It kind of took two different paths because I think the downside to your model is that is sales, is distribution. Right. Like we work with hundreds of advisors that are out there knocking on doors and bringing new business. It's got to be harder for you, especially if you didn't have this relationship with that firm, to bring on new business. So my dad decided, geez, even though I think he had the same frustrations with the advisors, I would be the truth, sorry back in the day. But he said, but wow, they're going to sell, sell, sell for us and do a lot of business. So he went this way, your dad went this way. Different ways to do it. [9:03] Mark: To Justin's question earlier, the relationship with these advisors, are they still involved post bringing you in? [9:11] William Hackler: Sometimes there's, you know, different arrangements. Some of them really like to be involved. Others just say, please handle it for me. You know, call me if you need anything. [9:21] Mark: I was curious if he has some of the same feelings your dad did back then in terms of how people are servicing. But it sounds like you're the one servicing all 250 of these plans and so you don't have those similar frustrations because you're involved in it all. [9:35] Chad: Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. You didn't let the audience know how many employees at yours? [9:42] William Hackler: 19. [9:42] Chad: 19 employees. Okay, let's, let's, let's dig into Hackler and the business model and how you're able to service these. When I say 250, he's got 450. But I want to focus on the 250 where you're the advisor as well as a third party administrator. Tools. What do you use to, for funds to you know, screen your funds and, and for your fiduciary review. [10:08] William Hackler: So I get to do my presentation from yesterday again. [10:10] Chad: Is that what you did? [10:11] Mark: Oh, we didn't. [10:12] Chad: I didn't go to that job. [10:14] William Hackler: Went to that. It would have been wonderful. [10:16] Chad: Was there anybody there? [10:17] William Hackler: I had a full room. JD. [10:19] Justin: You know, it was six seats. [10:22] William Hackler: Was 10. You guys probably weren't out of bed yet. [10:25] Chad: What is. [10:27] William Hackler: So we use Red Tail as our CRM system. [10:31] Chad: Oh yes. Client. [10:32] Mark: Oh yes. You get some alert. [10:35] Chad: Client relation management. What is. [10:40] William Hackler: I don't. [10:40] Mark: Yeah, just wait. It gets worse. It gets worse. [10:43] Chad: Have you ever had an alert? No. [10:44] Mark: It gets worse. Just sit on it for a second. [10:48] Chad: It's so bad. Oh my God. Are you Are you a RPIG guy? A Morningstar guy? Damn it. You build your. How do you find, select, monitor, replace funds. [10:58] William Hackler: So how do I get out of this acronym? It's not. [11:02] Chad: We. We've. [11:03] William Hackler: The software that we use. [11:05] Chad: It's not an acronym. [11:07] Mark: Red Tail is not. [11:07] Chad: It's not. Say it. [11:08] William Hackler: Fi360. Yeah, we've had them on and confirmed that glass. [11:14] Chad: You don't want it. You don't want that malort, do you? [11:16] William Hackler: God, it's really bad. [11:16] Mark: That's why it's a penalty. [11:18] Chad: Use Fi 360. [11:19] William Hackler: We use Fi 360 for those 250 plans. [11:23] Mark: Yep. [11:24] Chad: A lot of work. So are you sitting down and dealing with Fi360 in the interface and putting in the funds, is that you or have you delegated to someone else? [11:33] William Hackler: Yeah. So I have a team member that does that. Fancy his entire job. [11:38] Chad: That's all he does. [11:40] Mark: He seems like a guy, he's good at delegating. [11:45] William Hackler: So yes, you know, so he runs all the Fi 360 prep for the meetings, plan advice manager, you know, for it. So he puts that together every quarter for it. Those get dumped into the vault and then we put it on our drive in our meeting folder for it. [12:00] Chad: Do you, do you, when you go visit these clients, do you use some type of an agenda or do you hand out an agenda? [12:08] William Hackler: Yeah, so we have, you know, running agenda that my team does. [12:10] Chad: They create it for you. [12:11] William Hackler: They create it for me. [12:12] Chad: It's all there for you. [12:13] William Hackler: So they put it in there. [12:14] Chad: You just have a time and a day and you go maybe review it a little. [12:17] William Hackler: Have someone that schedules it for me. [12:19] Chad: Okay, this is good. [12:21] William Hackler: I do none of that. [12:22] Chad: 250 clients in that one million dollar range, give or take. You can't do four quarterly review meetings a year. So what are you doing? [12:32] William Hackler: We just do semi annual for it twice a year. We've used to do some quarterlies. Years ago we just felt it was too much. There wasn't enough different stuff to talk about each quarter. So our model is we do one in the first quarter, discuss the year end results for it and we also as part of the agenda. That's where we do our testing stuff too. So I think about the testing and everything the same time. We're talking about the demographics of the group, the fund scoring. [13:00] Chad: I think that's a good takeaway because you're a producing third party administrator and you do that Q1 fiduciary review meeting. You're bringing in testing, you're Bringing in all the third party administrator stuff, which is valuable. I don't know if a lot of advisors are doing that. [13:17] Mark: That's what I was just going to say. I don't think in our suite, I don't think I have any that are pulling the testing work and having those discussions. Now don't get me wrong, don't walk in and talk about the actual testing itself, but give them a feel for the functionality of the plan. [13:32] Chad: You're giving them participation rates, you're giving them. [13:35] Mark: Advisors are doing that. [13:36] Chad: You may even let them know, hey, [13:37] Mark: from the record keeper, you got your [13:39] Chad: census in on time or you were late and we could pick it up next year, or the census was wrong and we had to redo this or that. I mean it's all kinds of functional things. [13:46] Mark: You might discuss that and deeper in conversations about stretching the match. Like you have the skill set that others aren't having that skill set. [13:54] Chad: So the Chad nugget for the day is if you're working with a third party administrator or a bundled provider and you're the advisor, reach out to the compliance administrator for that type of information to add it to your meeting. I know some of you do that, but many of you don't. So that's great. [14:10] Speaker E: Our account managers are going to love that. [14:13] Chad: Since we're talking about mutual funds or investments you've shared with me, you're kind of passionate about this area a bit. In terms of is it important to move from the T row fund to the whatever fund because it's doing better in performance or this or that you have some issues with all that stuff. So how do you work with your clients in terms of that, selecting the funds and the importance of all that stuff? [14:38] William Hackler: I just, you know, we remind them and it's, and it's part of our onboarding that you and I have talked about for it. We remind them that the contribution rate is more important than the rest of this piece of it. How much they're putting in, how much they're putting in matters so much more than what fund we're using for it. And you know, interestingly, the, the presentation this morning from the American funds guy talking about, you know, these large fund menus. Do we have to have this many funds? Well, I actually take the opposite approach that he does. He was saying we need to simplify this for it. I like to have the large fund menu because then it drives those participants that don't know what to do. More to the target date fund. Right. More to the. [15:20] Chad: You're trying to confuse them. [15:21] William Hackler: Not trying to confuse them. [15:22] Chad: You paralyze them. So they take the easy answer. [15:24] Mark: So they go to the easy route. [15:25] William Hackler: Exactly. Let them take these route because you know that 80, 90% of them, that's [15:30] Mark: where they, that's where they should be. [15:32] William Hackler: Or it. [15:32] Chad: Let's put a number down. [15:33] William Hackler: So why not take that? [15:34] Chad: I think when you say a normal menu these days, it's like what, 24 funds, 22 funds. I think the old school mentality was you check all the boxes, the style boxes. Right. It's your small cap, your mid cap, your large cap. You get it in in large and mid and, and small and, and you fill them all up. And some of them perfect timing. I like that. As an asset class, the Schmid, that's the genius. [16:02] Mark: We're gonna go with that. [16:04] Chad: How do your clients react to that? Do you think that most advisors like to walk in and say, hey, we're replacing your 6 with a 10 because it makes them feel valuable, like they're doing something tangible? Is that the motivation behind it? [16:22] William Hackler: I don't think I understood your question because maybe I was laughing too much. [16:26] Chad: I was in. We have an obsession as an industry with the fund metrics and replacing funds. I think we do that because we want to show the client, look what I can do. [16:37] William Hackler: I think more than anything the what we spend time with those it's doing is actually scrubbing them out and just saying, you know what, here's a poor scoring fund. No one's using it. Let's just take it out of the like. I, I think we actually do that. [16:49] Mark: Burning. [16:51] William Hackler: Yeah. More than anything else, you know, for it. Just because again, we're directing them to those asset allocation funds, the target date series for it. [17:01] Chad: You're a huge target date fan for. [17:04] Mark: To chime in on that question. Think about this logically. We just talked about Will hosting a Fisher review and he steps in there and he talks about some of the design or stretching out the match and participation rates. If we just stated that most advisors don't do that, then what are they doing in that fiduciary review? They're focusing in on the funds. What did we teach them when they got their licensing? Focus in on the investments. Right. That's what most of their education is. [17:28] Chad: Well, it's a simple. [17:29] Mark: That's why they're going to stay there. It's a fault of our, our industry. I think at this point that we put so much emphasis on that picking and choosing funds. Now don't get me wrong, 10 years ago. Big story. Because it wasn't open architecture, it wasn't institutionalized investment. You had to pick a good provider and you had to weed through the few funds that they had to come up with some good ones. I don't think that's the case anymore. [17:49] Justin: Real quick. [17:50] Chad: Yes. [17:51] Justin: So Stephen asked in the chat, said, do you see a ts managed accounts and then what percentage of your plans auto enroll, auto escalate and at what rate? [17:58] Chad: Great question. Do you use any managing accounts? [18:02] Speaker E: Yeah, I feel like there was not [18:03] William Hackler: a whole lot of them. [18:04] Mark: No. [18:04] Chad: Any collective investment trusts and you need to drink. [18:07] William Hackler: Not a whole lot of them. [18:08] Justin: Okay. And then do you use auto enroll? [18:10] William Hackler: Yes. [18:11] Justin: And what. At what rate? [18:14] William Hackler: I. I'm big at the 6% number and I bring out that study that shows, you know, there's. It actually moves up the adoption for it or the higher you go. The opt out rate. [18:28] Mark: Yeah. [18:29] William Hackler: What is it? [18:29] Mark: Opt out rate doesn't change. [18:31] William Hackler: It actually goes up a little bit from three to six where people are more likely to just take it, you know, for that. You know, for it. So I bring that piece out. So yeah, you know the six, you know, with a two for it. I. Good, good comment this morning about it. Why don't you tell them three, right. And then they get all freaked out at three and you can back down to two which is like that's. I think that's our sort of default is 6 with 2 escalations. [18:59] Chad: Interesting. [19:00] Mark: Do you we in. When we were in D.C. last week, we heard comments from everybody saying the auto features are the third party administrator's best friend. Do you see you're working in this micro space and I've always been adamant that most of the businesses can't accurately run their auto features. You seeing this in your book too? Clients failing? [19:21] William Hackler: Yeah, oh yeah. All the time for that stuff. [19:23] Mark: And gotta get payroll integration. [19:26] William Hackler: Exactly what somebody said. Talked about the middleware that we need [19:29] Mark: in that, you know, for that people are building that. [19:32] William Hackler: I got to invest in that. Oh, we can't give advice out. Right. So don't do that. [19:37] Chad: You can do anything you want. [19:40] William Hackler: No, yeah. It's a really hard discussion for it. And what happens? You know, I think a lot of the conversations what we have is at that board level, owner level. We have the discussion how good the auto enroll is. They all buy in for it. And then I have to stop them and go, okay, let's go discuss this with your hr, right? Yeah, let's go discuss this with your payroll. [20:03] Chad: There's some nuts and bolts Here, figure it out. Moving pieces, right? [20:06] William Hackler: Like let's not do that. Or one thing that I did from a client that was really, you know, I thought was great was the HR comment back. Well, that's two. [20:17] Mark: Yes. Catch. Oh yes. [20:20] Chad: I can feel it. By the way, he is afraid of that penalty drink. [20:24] Mark: As he should be. Sips too. [20:26] Chad: You don't have to take Jan stout size sips. [20:29] William Hackler: Well, I have here. Oh my God, that stuff is so awful. [20:34] Chad: Are you said maybe you're doing two live meetings a year. That's still 500 meetings. I'm pretty good at math. You're doing all those yourself? [20:44] William Hackler: No. [20:45] Chad: There we go. [20:47] Mark: Delegate, delegate. [20:49] William Hackler: Britney does. [20:51] Chad: Britney Spears. [20:53] William Hackler: Brittany Santos. My office licensed you know for it. Great find for us. So happy to have her. She is awesome. She probably does 150 and I do 100. [21:04] Chad: Okay, you 200. We've established that you've been pretty good at delegation. No, no, no. But still you're doing a lot of work still going to these meetings. Do you envision the Hackler of the future not going to those meetings? Will you get rid of all of that someday soon? [21:27] William Hackler: Yeah, I mean we're certainly working on, you know, building up the team, educating them, having you know, new people learn that stuff so that they can do more of it. I don't think I'm going to be out of it. I think. [21:40] Chad: Why? Because you like it? [21:41] William Hackler: I like it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. Very weird. [21:44] Chad: Okay. [21:44] William Hackler: You figured that out? [21:45] Mark: I think most do though. Most like most advisors like to be client facing. [21:50] Chad: I'm the worst example. I don't like doing anything. [21:52] Mark: It sucks. [21:53] William Hackler: We figured that out too for. I mean I. I think I'd like to trim it probably down to you know, 50 or 60 or something like that. [22:00] Mark: I don't want to get out of it. [22:01] Chad: What else. What else comes up in your day beyond these fiduciary review meetings like tasks that you have to do. I mean you run the company or what are your to do's. What stresses you out on a Monday morning? [22:16] William Hackler: Monday morning or not yet, not yesterday. That I'm like a couple days away from playing golf. Next. [22:21] Chad: So not a lot. Yeah, [22:25] William Hackler: you know, have a CFO for it. [22:27] Mark: Ding ding ding ding, ding, ding ding ding. [22:33] Chad: So you don't have to worry a lot about the financial stuff. You got someone doing that in the [22:36] Mark: bottle, you can just take. [22:38] Chad: It doesn't get any better. [22:39] Mark: No, it does not. [22:41] Speaker E: No. [22:41] Chad: This stuff is so bad. [22:44] William Hackler: I need another one, Justin. [22:45] Mark: All right. [22:46] Chad: You know what I'm feeling. [22:47] William Hackler: Let's know another beer to wash this thing down. [22:50] Justin: Trying to get rid of. [22:51] William Hackler: Let's take a little. [22:51] Chad: Let's take a little fun break. And Brandon, if you could play. He doesn't start the game until he hears the graphics. So perceives it everyone's favorite game. [23:03] William Hackler: Not beer. It's going. [23:07] Chad: You just can't hear it. [23:08] Speaker E: Just gonna preface all of my comments right now with just really sitting here trying to focus on having a good conversation. [23:17] Mark: Last night was not kind to me. Last night was very kind. [23:22] William Hackler: And then jd, you know, an hour [23:23] Speaker E: and a half ago was like, you gotta do lamer game. I'm like, okay, I got my notes. [23:28] Mark: Hey, Justin, you have to do this every show. [23:30] Speaker E: Well, Justin, one of the first. [23:31] Mark: You know what? [23:31] Speaker E: I'm gonna pass the first delegation. I've learned this from Will Hackler himself that you're supposed to delegate in the in life. So Justin, please, if you will. First question comes from you. [23:42] Justin: Wow, this is kind of cool. [23:43] Speaker E: Yeah, I like this. [23:45] Chad: He's never given away the lamer game. Powerful. [23:47] Mark: No, usually he yells if you try to ask. [23:49] Justin: All right. [23:52] Speaker E: We've already kind of gone walking up [23:53] Justin: to some guy in the middle of him karaoke and turning it into a due Wet with yourself. [24:00] William Hackler: So game. You would be so game. I would love that. I love do it anyway. [24:06] Speaker E: Can I. [24:07] Chad: Can I. [24:07] Speaker E: Can I say that it's lame because you did it? [24:11] Justin: The fact that I did it. [24:13] Speaker E: I'm ashamed. Okay, we can just move past that guy. [24:17] Mark: That guy spent $5 on that song. He did. [24:20] William Hackler: And you ruined. [24:21] Mark: You ruined it. [24:22] Chad: Upset. [24:23] Mark: No, no. He was. He was so happy to have you up there. Really? [24:26] Chad: I would say game cuz he get. The only appropriate answer is game. If I. [24:30] Speaker E: If I recall and it's fuzzy. He wasn't very good. [24:33] Mark: No. [24:33] Speaker E: So I helped. [24:34] Mark: He was not. [24:34] Chad: Yeah. [24:35] Speaker E: Cuz I. [24:35] Mark: But neither were you. [24:36] William Hackler: But like two wrong. [24:37] Mark: What if you went up to like Aaron? What if you went up to Aaron? Could you go up to Aaron and chime in on that? You can't do that. Crush. [24:46] William Hackler: Kill you. [24:47] Mark: Oh my gosh. [24:48] Justin: Check out Todor's Instagram for a clip of it. [24:52] Chad: Okay. [24:52] Speaker E: All right, next question. It's kind of a weird one, but out of offices, you know, your, your, your reply when you have to tell people you're not in the office. [25:04] Chad: Y. [25:06] Speaker E: You all right? [25:07] William Hackler: I just burped. Scary. I'm sorry. [25:12] Speaker E: Why does it make you do one for. Is it lame or game that it's internal and external. Can I just write one? [25:20] Chad: Oh yeah, you do out of office for your own company people and one for the. [25:24] Mark: I mean, you can just copy and paste it. [25:26] Justin: Mark. [25:26] William Hackler: I. I mean, I. I'm game for that because. Because I hate to send to my team, oh, God, they're gonna be watching this. I hate to send an email to the. To my team and get the response of, oh, I'm on vacation until next Wednesday. Yeah, I know that. [25:44] Chad: Like, I don't need that. [25:46] William Hackler: Another email coming back telling me that you're out sometimes. Mark, please just take, like, the internal piece of it out. [25:53] Mark: Like, you know, see, sorry. I'm going to answer. I'm going to say I'm game because on the internal one, I tell the team, hey, I'm out. But if you need me, text me. I. I usually don't leave that on the external one. I let them know, hey, I'm out. Reach out. Just like, the one that goes out [26:09] Speaker E: to, like, clients and advisors is, like, this long. [26:11] William Hackler: No, I don't want to worry. [26:14] Speaker E: It just literally says I'm out. [26:16] Mark: Did you see my one for. For this? Said I'm getting some nuggets in Nashville to bring some value back to your practice. [26:23] Chad: That's bad. [26:25] Speaker E: That's really bad. [26:28] Mark: Yeah, it's the best comment you've given me. [26:31] Justin: I didn't even set an out of office. [26:33] Mark: That's because you're never out. [26:35] Chad: Do you know what that is? I'm the same as Justin Lane. I haven't used one in years. [26:38] William Hackler: I mean, I. I have used one this year for it, but I didn't do it for, like, last week. [26:42] Mark: And this week I did slower to respond. All right, drinking it. [26:49] Speaker E: Question 3. [26:49] William Hackler: Did you send me a message? [26:51] Speaker E: You're done. Banter's done. [26:54] Chad: Wow. [26:55] William Hackler: Wait a minute. Did he just wake up? [26:58] Mark: All right. [26:58] Chad: Lamer game. [26:59] Speaker E: Going to a. A breakout session and then raising your hand to ask a question, but then taking over the entire room and giving your own presentation while the people presenting up front look like this the whole time. [27:14] William Hackler: Where's Itzo? [27:17] Speaker E: No, I'm not talking about. [27:18] William Hackler: Do you want to know where my session. The question is lame or Dan? [27:23] Chad: Lame. All right. [27:24] Justin: Oh, okay. Lame. [27:26] William Hackler: Lane, I'm actually surprised you didn't get [27:28] Speaker E: going on that, because I was like, Chad's. [27:30] William Hackler: He gets antsy. [27:31] Speaker E: He likes to talk, too. [27:33] Chad: Lamer game. You've got to go to the bathroom really bad. So you're letting Chad take over the [27:38] Mark: show and run out in the middle of the conference. [27:40] William Hackler: Wait, but the bathroom's, like, two miles away. Jt. [27:43] Chad: Gotcha. [27:44] Justin: Just go man, [27:47] William Hackler: no, you should. [27:50] Speaker E: It's way more awkward to not move, like just to stay close. [27:54] Justin: Tell you what we're talking about. Can you. [27:56] Chad: Yeah, of course. [27:56] Speaker E: Hold on, I got. Wait, before I do that, you know what they say? [28:01] Mark: That was, that was your whole lamer game. You know what they say, Three questions. [28:05] Speaker E: I always do three. [28:06] Mark: Justin did one, so he only did two. [28:08] Speaker E: That's. [28:08] William Hackler: He did one lamer game. [28:10] Mark: Yeah, but Justin did one. Mark's gotta have three. [28:13] Speaker E: All right, guys, what do we got? Mark, topic three. What are you going to do about convergence? Do you care? Are you concerned? I'm sure it's like that's a bullet. [28:26] William Hackler: This is a very easy one because most of my plans already have a financial advisor that's attached to it. So it's very easy for us. So I guess we already have the convergence. [28:38] Speaker E: So you're obviously, you're not really afraid of this. Concerned at all. [28:43] Justin: If you throw up, he's going to love it and never let it down. [28:46] William Hackler: God, this is not good. [28:47] Mark: Go deeper there though, because are you guys doing financial planning? Are you doing financial wellness? Are you helping? So that's really the question. [28:55] William Hackler: So we're doing none. But again, most of our plans are tied to a financial advisor that's part of the family, you know, for it. So if we get those leads that come in that direction for it, we're sending it back for it. And most of my plans, you know, truthfully, are coming from that side of it. And we're designing the plan around what those needs are. [29:16] Mark: Yeah, but let's. [29:18] William Hackler: That are already been identified in session after session. [29:21] Mark: You've heard conversations about, you know, emergency planning, having an emergency account for what might be needed, driving down, driving down your liabilities. You're not doing that. That advisor might be doing that for the C suite, but is not doing that for the average employee base. And that's the convergence. So I was the one that gave JD that question because I was curious. In the producing third party administrator world, we tend to be horses with blinders on and focus solely on what we're doing for the plan and not necessarily on what we're talking about with Convergence of Wellness. And I think, I would think that you're going to have to be fearful. And this is the session this afternoon about the aggregators coming in that provide these advisors with all these tools. And it's the next wave of financial planning in the 401k space and chewing into your 401k book. Yep. [30:14] William Hackler: One of your previous guests and I had a Good conversation the other night over a couple of beverages. So, you know, take that as it [30:23] Speaker E: may, good old like smoothie or something. [30:26] William Hackler: Holly Knight, you know, she does a ton of that participant education, those participant one on one meetings for it. We were talking about that void that's. There's a void that's out there from, you know, doing that education, you know, for the employees. What was it? Yeah, this screen that Brad had up [30:45] Mark: with JD Monetizing the employees but talking [30:48] William Hackler: about like, you know, the small balance person for it. Like, you know, I think we do enough to certainly help out that group for it. And then your, your Michael kitsis, you're the 1%, the high, you know, net worth people that's being taken care of, right? Those avoid in the middle there, there's a void. [31:08] Mark: Everything below the 1%. [31:11] William Hackler: There's a lot we do, you know, for the rank and file participants in there for it, that a lot of it's enough with the record keepers doing stuff, you know, record keepers helping with that. [31:23] Mark: And you heard yesterday in the session that's a 4, 4% take rate on it. So yes, we're offering a lot of things but nobody's utilizing it. That's why we need convergence. [31:32] William Hackler: Right. Let's go back to my discussion about our meetings. When we do our first quarter meetings and we're looking at the demographics of the group, we plan out the rest of the year for what's there for the education enrollment need that's there and we're doing those meetings where we're saying, okay, listen, we can see that no one's doing these like mini plans, you know, in there for it and we're, you know, using that opportunity. [32:01] Chad: I feel good. Sorry, continue on, didn't mean to interrupt. I feel like a million bucks. [32:11] William Hackler: My stream of thought is gone. So like our take up rates, I are, I believe our take up rates are higher than that. I think they're using record keeping tools, [32:21] Mark: using the record keeping financial planning tools that they're in. [32:23] William Hackler: Tools that are in there, those base tools that are in there. I would bet ours are in the 15 to 20% range. [32:29] Mark: All right. He doesn't have fear of convergence because most of his plans also have a private wealth advisor, the person who brought him the opportunity attached to the relationship. [32:42] Chad: And that means they're going to execute some kind of. [32:44] Mark: They're executing with the C suite, right? They're executing up top. But he's saying he's got good take rates on everybody below the C suite. [32:53] William Hackler: I think the void's above that for it. Right. It's in that middle emerging group. [32:59] Mark: Explain that to me then. Because you gave it the $40,000 average account balance person was what was used in some of the sessions yesterday. [33:06] William Hackler: Yes. [33:06] Mark: You think that person is getting what they. They need from a financial education standpoint? [33:11] William Hackler: I do, yes. [33:12] Mark: Oh my God. I disagree. So, so vivid. [33:15] Chad: So you mean across the board or then his client base? [33:18] Mark: Those, those individuals don't have access to a financial planner. Those are the ones that have built up debt. Those are the ones that are paying off high credit card interest. Those are the ones that don't. They're not getting this guidance from us. We as an industry, we have ignored them other than trying to get them in the plan with auto features. [33:40] Chad: But that's the goal of wellness and convergence is to get down there. [33:44] Mark: But you missed it. Will's point is we're really helping out the C suite and those people in the lower tier are getting what they need from the record keeper because it's not a lot. [33:54] William Hackler: It's not a lot of need. [33:55] Chad: Yeah. [33:56] William Hackler: For it. But there's a void in the middle is my belief. [34:00] Chad: I got that. [34:00] Mark: What do you think the most common topics are for those people in the middle? What is it that they need that we're not delivering on right now? [34:09] William Hackler: Now they've finally accumulated some money. They're getting to a point where they need to do something a little bit more. The middle's huge, sophisticated. [34:17] Chad: They actually there's important decisions they need [34:19] William Hackler: to make now that they haven't have a wrong decisions. Right. Because now they. This balance means something to them for it. And they might go like more conservative because now they're like, okay, I've accumulated something I'm not going to. [34:31] Chad: I think I've also gotten to the point where I mean simple things like they can buy the more expensive car, but maybe shouldn't, you know, they've got some wealth. And it's really important then for them to be responsible with it and prudent with it. [34:44] Speaker E: Yeah. You. You didn't have to get that real nice truck. You could have got the base version. [34:48] Chad: We're talking about this level. I'm up on this level. For me, it's like you just spend it. There's so much. [34:57] Justin: Daniela has a good point. The lower income. [35:00] William Hackler: You do. [35:01] Justin: The lower income employee will have a larger percentage of income replacement from Social Security. [35:05] Chad: True. [35:06] Justin: Your 75 to 150 employee a year needs the most help. [35:11] Speaker E: The next question you ask, put a [35:13] Mark: bunch of acronyms in it. See again that Statement though to me is saying that they're. We're still looking at their retirement needs. You're saying their replacement is coming heavily from Social Security, so they're good. I'm talking about their financial needs and being able to drive down debt in the areas that instead of buying that truck, strategic, pay off that credit card debt. [35:34] Chad: Yeah, the financial planning side of things, the budgeting and the. [35:37] Mark: All that kind of the basic 101 that we learned in high school. But they don't teach any. [35:41] Chad: Chad, you spent some time with Hackler at the American Society of Pension whatever the fuck it is conference and you came home really excited about how he runs his business and these things. One of the areas you're most excited about, it's not here. And Chad, you and I argue about this all the time. Chad wants, when we bring on a new client, he feels like it's such a crucial moment to teach them all of their responsibilities, all the things they need to do. Really kind of get them in the best position to succeed. I push back on you sometimes because I'm like, look man, we're trying to provide a low cost solution, trying to keep it simple and easy. And it's hard enough to get them to sit in on a 45 minute, 60 minute design call, let alone them follow up later and go, are you sure you know how to do everything and how do we help you? He does this, I say he can do it because he's also making advisor revenue too. You fall in love with this, you think it's crucial to your success. [36:44] William Hackler: So important. I think it's so important in that onboarding process for it to train the client for what's going to happen. Train them on their responsibilities, train them on the reasons we're doing this. Like it's such an opportunity in the beginning. You have their attention, right? Like they're coming to you for a reason. You have the attention of them to, to set the mindset for them. We are very deliberate in that. And that comes from a lot of years of mistakes. [37:16] Chad: I was gonna say what happens? Like what is the benefit of that? Or I should say, what are the negatives when you don't teach them like what they make mistakes, you gotta fix the mistakes. [37:31] Justin: They don't understand the importance of it. [37:33] William Hackler: Yeah. [37:34] Justin: Conversation we have around the pooled employer plan of how it's going to, you [37:38] Mark: know, separate them, make that even worse. Right? Yeah, yeah. [37:40] Chad: Don't get me started on, on pooled employer plans right now. So like what are the type of [37:46] William Hackler: things that happen so like you have like stepped out of doing a lot of things you don't want to do them. I've done a lot of things in my process because I don't want my people yelling at me like they always do. [37:57] Chad: Fair enough. [37:57] Justin: Yeah. [37:58] William Hackler: Okay. They yell at me for like, why didn't you tell, tell them this. Like why didn't you do this up front? Sure. For it. And that's why we've developed this process so I don't get yelled at from my team. [38:08] Chad: Right. Because things break. [38:09] Mark: What does it save you on the back end though? I have to imagine it's less headache, people not getting their contributions in on time or messing up their match calculation. [38:17] William Hackler: Yeah. Plans are run better that way. You know, just, it just. [38:20] Chad: I've had, I've had clients, I'm ashamed to admit that like eight months in they call and they're like, hey, this isn't, this isn't working. Like we don't see any money at the record keeper. And I, and I'm like, oh, sir, are you sending it from your payroll? And they're like, oh, I thought that was happening. I thought you guys were doing that. And I'm like, so no one talked to them about the steps. I'm like, come on bro. Like it's not going to get there by magic. [38:46] Mark: So we silo. Well, like we work with a number of record keepers and we believe that payroll training should be of part, part of their process and it usually is. But the truth is they teach them how to remit contributions right. [39:00] Chad: At the record keeper. [39:00] Mark: At the record keeper they teach them how to, how to submit an ach. [39:04] Chad: Every record keeper has like an installation conversion. Has an installation conversion person. And I think this is like another chad nugget is. I think it's a thing now. I think, I think the advisors feel like, oh well, the record keepers obviously like onboarding them. So they're going to teach them all these things. Sometimes the record keeper is thinking, oh well, the third party administrator is going to teach them all these things and everyone's kind of pointing at each other and no one, no one teaches the client. [39:33] William Hackler: So I mean we have a fabulous implementation team. They are awesome and they make great relationships with the record keeper. Implementation teams, like they get very personal, have to work together because they spend so much time together for it. You know, the complaint I get from my team is, oh my God, this guy, like he's not working there as the implementation. He got promoted and he's out. And they're so angry about that I'm [40:01] Chad: like, I gotta start over. [40:02] William Hackler: Gotta start over. Gotta train a new implementation person because they need to be trained on our process. Right. You know, for it. How. The way. The way it is that we do things. [40:11] Chad: Things, you know, if you don't, if you don't do that. It's just human nature. When you're in a cubicle and you work for this large record keeping firm and your job is to onboard clients and your name's Tom, and, and you maybe have depression in life and you're sad. [40:27] Justin: You. [40:28] Chad: You just want to get it done. Sorry, you just want to get it done. You know, you want to check another one off. And so if you can just go, all right, Mr. And Mrs. Client, we need your first name, your last name, your social, and your contribution amount. This is how you do it. You press a button, you send it in, and he's. They're done. That will happen if you don't insert [40:45] Mark: 95% of the time. [40:47] William Hackler: Yeah, but you know what? This is the benefit of coming to things like this and being where we were last week. Right. You get to meet those people for it. You get to meet, you know, their bosses, you know, for it. And I make sure we reach out to those and say, hey, listen, we've got a bunch of plans with you that we're working on. You know, make that relationship work. Go sing karaoke with them for it. Go have a couple beers with them for it. [41:13] Mark: A couple. [41:14] William Hackler: So just a couple. [41:16] Mark: And we're not, by the way, I'm [41:18] William Hackler: older mug from last week. [41:19] Chad: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's one with old beer in it you can have. [41:23] William Hackler: So. [41:27] Mark: What did you do? You didn't drink out of your own mug yesterday, by the way. [41:32] Chad: All right. [41:33] William Hackler: It smells. [41:37] Mark: My, my, my comment. My parting thought with that. And we've all. I'm sure you have too, been screaming this from the rooftops for years. That person in the con. The, the conversion seat for those record keepers. Tom, our top. Tom Dark. [41:52] Chad: Tom. It's okay, Tom. Hang in there. [41:54] Mark: Easy, quick, painless. And they don't understand what we've gone through up front to get the client to the point that they're at. So often we will chat about full payroll files being submitted, make sure that it matches exact so then the record keeper can track eligibility and send out notices. But Tom doesn't really get motivated to do that. And so there are only a few record keepers that have spent the appropriate amount of time training Tom to say, talk to the client. Why they shouldn't just Submit data for the four people participating, but they should give it for the 40 people that [42:29] Chad: are all kinds of, all kinds of variations. [42:32] Mark: Tracking, vesting, all those little things. We have a hole right now in this industry, in this, this payroll integration with record keeping. It is a massive. [42:42] Chad: Do you feel like there's clients though that feel like this is a pain in the butt, all your education, like you keep teaching me all this stuff because I feel like we have a lot of clients that just like, they just don't want to be bothered, man. It's like they want to put the plan in place and you know what? Leave me alone. [42:56] William Hackler: Go back to our first quarter meetings in the first quarter. We talk about what we're going to do for the rest of the year for it. And that's their time to say, you know what, we're good, we don't need anything, you know, for it. Or, you know, and that's where I, sometimes I have to push back and go, listen, I can tell from the numbers your people need this, you know, for it. [43:14] Chad: I think that's an advantage though to being a producing third party administrator is I can't really justify these live meetings and these things as a, as a non producing third party administrator. And with fee compression and advisors reaching out to me, wanting our fees to be lower and these guys fucking coming to me like, hey, can we reduce our fees on this prospect? So I got to try to keep things streamlined and simple and quick. But because you'll end up making 4x my revenue, you can kind of be there and do those things. [43:44] William Hackler: Yeah. And I also put it where to me, we're a premium service. I'm not going to be the cheapest, I don't want to be the cheapest for it. I had an old client of mine, it was a great, great little story for a landscaper, right? And he goes, if I quoted on a job and I get more than half, then I know I'm too cheap, I need to freeze. So it's like some of that to me is like, okay, sometimes you just have to look at those, those numbers. How many plans are we getting? Are we getting them because we're the cheapest options? [44:13] Chad: Well, there's, that's the math. [44:15] William Hackler: Or is there some, you know, and I think we deserve a plan premium for what we do. [44:19] Chad: So if I doubled your guys's fee schedule, we could do some more of this service stuff. Are you down? [44:24] Mark: Yeah. [44:25] Chad: You've liars. [44:26] Mark: So let's, let's distinguish between one thing. [44:29] William Hackler: Wait a minute. [44:30] Chad: They Just said yes. [44:31] William Hackler: Okay. [44:31] Chad: We're gonna, we're gonna go, we're gonna go further with that. We're gonna talk. [44:35] William Hackler: I mean, you could put in another pool. [44:36] Mark: We gotta do more. [44:37] Chad: Oh, that's my problem. [44:39] Mark: Well, let me, let me make this clear and I'm gonna ask the question of jd. The comments that are made around Will sitting in a meeting and saying, here's what we're going to do for the rest of the year. Quarter two is going to be an education drip on, on financial wellness. Quarter three is going to be something on bank. Whose job is that? Who should be delivering that guidance? [45:01] Chad: The advisor. [45:02] Mark: Okay. Will is the advisor. We are not as the third party administrator. [45:07] Chad: Right. [45:07] Mark: But that's not happening on our plants and it's not happening because the micro space is still being serviced by advisors. [45:15] William Hackler: Clearly PDC is not the right place for you. [45:21] Chad: I think Chad's being honest about the micro market. And Chad and I have had this. [45:26] Speaker E: The fact that people watch the show and still work with us is shocking. [45:30] Chad: That was a good one. I think I lost my train of thought. I love that. If you didn't hear what Mark says, [45:37] William Hackler: he's trying to get one. [45:39] Chad: Mark. Mark just said the fact that people watch this show and still want to do work with us is amazing. You're being honest about the micro market and you and I have had this debate because I feel like if we're [45:50] Mark: bridging so many gaps. [45:52] Chad: If you're an advisor and you sell a $500,000 plan for 50 basis point trail and you're making 2,500 bucks and then your, your broker dealer's taking a 25% cut so you're only making 19. Don't do the math on that for me. $1,900 a year. You're still making $1,900 a year. You made that agreement. You know, you sign those contracts and you have a job to do. And I think that we need to keep pushing on them that they have to do that job because you're right, I can't go in there and do that. You know what I can do is make sure you're not supposed to. [46:28] Mark: That's what I'm trying to say. Separate those lines. [46:30] Chad: We do our part of making sure that they get their census and making sure that their census is actually real and accurate and fixed because of all the mistakes it comes in with. We make sure that all that compliance work's done, the testing, the documents are updated. They get their 5,500 in on time and Accurately. Those are all the heavy lifting we're doing. The advice has got to pick up. Got to pick up that other shit. [46:53] Mark: But, but. And you may not know this but about the insides of our business. Well, we spend a lot of time doing quite a bit of the work that the advisor would normally do. We do the RFPs. We often. [47:04] Justin: Dang. [47:05] William Hackler: Yeah. [47:05] Chad: In the sales process. [47:07] Mark: And the sales process. We support them in that. So we're usually the ones doing the presenting during that process. And so we are probably, in many ways, as you mentioned earlier, creating the [47:19] Chad: issue for our part of the problem. [47:20] Mark: We're part of the problem because we're bridging that gap for what they should be doing. [47:24] Chad: You're propping up to plan Tony to plan Tanya, making them look good in a point of sale. And then. And then all hell breaks loose after that. What we need to do. [47:39] William Hackler: Malort turn his head away from the camera. [47:43] Chad: I think Malort will be the future penalty drink of all shows. [47:48] William Hackler: Something good going on. She just, like, whacked that keyboard like a thousand times. [47:53] Justin: She's managing this whole thing. [47:55] William Hackler: Oh, she is. [47:56] Speaker E: She's. [47:56] Chad: She's running the chat, Mark. [47:57] Mark: She's running the chat. [47:58] Chad: Solid song. [47:59] William Hackler: Awesome. [48:00] Justin: She's gonna get it again. [48:02] William Hackler: Why did you leave there? Like, now I have no one to call when I have problems. [48:06] Chad: Well, what we didn't talk about was sales from your company's perspective. We talked a lot about service. Are you responsible for all new business coming in? [48:17] William Hackler: Not now. [48:17] Chad: No, another. So now Jason's involved. [48:21] William Hackler: Involved, yes. [48:22] Mark: Are you gonna punch him when you get back? [48:25] William Hackler: Yeah, he's gonna get. He's gonna be hurt. [48:27] Chad: Okay, so you delegated part of that. Are you still doing some of the sales? [48:32] William Hackler: I'm still doing a ton of it. [48:34] Chad: Okay, and why did you bring someone in to. To do that for you? Because you have growth. [48:40] William Hackler: Because it was a math problem. [48:41] Chad: You're running out of it. [48:42] William Hackler: I ran out of bandwidth. I couldn't do enough review meetings and sales meetings. [48:48] Chad: So you bring someone in, but you'll still do both as opposed to just. I mean, why not bring someone in? Just be like your sales and I'm going to do review. [48:56] William Hackler: So, you know. Now Jason oversees the sales team, you know, for it. And I hope, you know, the hope is that he's going to take on a lot of those and bring me in as needed for it, but he'll be doing more than I am. [49:08] Chad: So you might. [49:10] Mark: You have such a move your way out of that channel of advisors bringing you business that he's not out there hunting as much as he is building those relationships. Right? [49:18] William Hackler: Yeah. And he found that out. The first eight weeks he's like, oh my God, there's so much coming in here where he goes. I thought I was going to do a lot of my own stuff. [49:26] Chad: Well, that's a great kind of chat nugget to take away. Here is. And we've talked about this, [49:34] William Hackler: we talked [49:34] Chad: about this a lot in the past. [49:37] Justin: Yeah. [49:37] Speaker E: 20 piece today. [49:38] Chad: Great, great advice for advisors is strategic partners. I mean, you're probably listening to Mr. Hackler and getting really jealous. [49:46] Mark: Hold on. [49:48] Speaker E: All the people watching that have seen your name pop up on chats for over a year now. I don't know if they fully believe what's going on right now. They're like, this guy, he speaks eloquently. [50:00] William Hackler: He has, he knows what he's doing. [50:01] Speaker E: He runs a successful business. [50:03] William Hackler: We just thought you were a raging lunatic. I am a raging lunatic, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Absolutely. [50:13] Chad: You're probably jealous about the inflow of new business that he has to deal with, but that's because he has, in a way, a strategic partner. Right. You've. You've got this alliance. [50:23] William Hackler: I've got a lot of strategic partners, [50:25] Chad: people out there in the world. You may not have what he has, but if you can find, what types of firms can you partner with to get these types of relationships? [50:32] Mark: Especially what you said, CPAs are a great one. [50:35] Chad: CPAs? Yeah. Me too. [50:38] Mark: Group health shops that aren't doing any financial planning. [50:42] Chad: Payroll people. [50:45] Mark: You can find a good regional. [50:46] William Hackler: Oh, really? [50:48] Mark: Okay. As an advisor. [50:50] Chad: I said a. [50:51] Mark: Okay. As an advisor, you're. You're not getting much back from the payroll. Regional, yes. National, no, I haven't. Okay, great. [51:02] William Hackler: Partners. [51:02] Chad: Let me explain something. [51:03] Mark: But have not found them. [51:04] Chad: I think, I think our industry has failed in that area. I mean, 10 years ago we were talking about. [51:10] William Hackler: Keep saying this industry's failed. We failed. [51:13] Mark: This sucks. Like we're growing. [51:15] Chad: We always wanted to partner with payrolls and we thought it would be a great back and forth of business. Right. But I don't think we did that very well. But mind you, my understanding is that Guideline got to 10,000 plans in a really short period of time, mostly through their relationship with gusto. When I talked to the human interest guy today, that's their strategy. That's no guideline or. [51:39] William Hackler: Yeah. Guidelines. No, they have no information. [51:41] Chad: Yeah. Oh, really? So bad they can't share anything? So. So they're pulling it off, Chad. So. So maybe you need to Reconsider that payroll channel because it's fueling some of these disruptors. Yeah, so they saw it as a channel. Okay, let's chat our champion. This. [52:01] William Hackler: Hold on. Yes. [52:03] Speaker E: Oh, God. [52:04] Chad: You gotta go bathroom. [52:05] Speaker E: Oh, God. Oh, no. [52:08] Chad: I'm nervous. Yeah, we got golf visors. [52:12] William Hackler: Oh, yeah. Well, because we're supposed to announce this, right? [52:17] Speaker E: What? [52:17] Chad: Oh, you guys are leaving me? [52:21] Mark: Jd. [52:22] Speaker E: Oh. [52:22] Chad: Oh, yes. [52:23] Justin: For someone like me. [52:24] William Hackler: Yes, that helps. [52:26] Speaker E: What are we announcing? [52:27] William Hackler: Shade your eyes. [52:27] Chad: Not like anyone cares about this, but [52:31] William Hackler: are we going to announce this our competition? [52:34] Mark: Yeah. [52:34] Justin: Oh. [52:35] Speaker E: What? [52:36] Chad: So, yes, Hackler is like a scratch scratch golfer. So he comes up to Chad at a conference and says, hey, how about we do a contest? My firm against your firm. [52:47] William Hackler: Firm. [52:47] Chad: Firm. [52:48] Speaker E: Firm. [52:49] Chad: And Chad agrees. So we're gonna have the battle of the third party administrators. Four on four at Pebble Beach. No, I don't know where it's going to be. [53:00] Mark: I'm down. [53:01] William Hackler: We're gonna pick out a conference and my sales team is going to come play. Your sales team. [53:05] Mark: And we will wear these. [53:07] William Hackler: And you're going to wear. [53:07] Mark: But we're going to give you something to wear and it is definitely going to be pants. Okay, great. [53:13] Chad: So now that you all know that there's going to be some cheesy golf tournament that you don't care about. [53:16] William Hackler: We told you, we're going to, you [53:18] Chad: know, chat bar champion. [53:19] Speaker E: Yeah, we could live stream. [53:20] Justin: This has nothing to do with yesterday. But it's Daniela. [53:24] Chad: Oh, okay. Daniela Moises, I think. Wait a minute. She's the goat. [53:33] William Hackler: So actually, hold on. Just so you know this, I have one of the team working because we discussed this with Brandon yesterday. I wanted to know like, how many chat bars and like the, you know, the scoreboard for that. For it. So I actually have someone on my team going through all the video. [53:49] Chad: Nice. [53:49] William Hackler: Right now. [53:50] Chad: Yeah. [53:51] Mark: So now you know you're gonna be paying them. [53:53] William Hackler: Paying them to figure out who all the Jap are jamming. We're put the scoreboard together and then we will be sharing with you that [54:01] Chad: that's how things should work organically. Like that amongst the community. I like six. [54:05] William Hackler: She just beat my five. Yeah, but they got thrown out. [54:10] Chad: Okay. You get that done and I guarantee you that Brandon will create something phenomenal both digitally and hard copy. [54:19] Mark: We got one nomination. [54:22] Chad: Oh, yeah. That counts. [54:24] Speaker E: Not really. [54:25] Mark: Second one. [54:26] Speaker E: Okay. [54:26] William Hackler: So. [54:27] Chad: So great. [54:28] Justin: You should have been in there. [54:29] Chad: Come on, Hackler. [54:29] William Hackler: Thank you for having me. [54:30] Chad: Thank you so much. I'm sorry about the malort, but it is what it is. And thanks to wealth at work, surprising. Thanks to Nashville. Thanks to the karaoke bar. We apologize on Mark's behalf. [54:42] Mark: Beer. [54:43] Chad: It's been a fun episode. Thanks for tuning in out there. We are the retire Alex. Changing the retirement plant industry. One beer at a time. [54:53] Mark: One butter beer. [54:54] Speaker E: Yummy. [54:54] Chad: Peace out. [54:55] William Hackler: I'm not having beer. [54:56] Chad: Thanks, buddy. [54:58] Mark: Mark, I'm ready for that 20 piece.