Police Officer Financial Wellness & Public Sector Pensions

[0:00] Ryan Johansson: Perfect relief on my drive home is when I get the opportunity to not talk about police stuff and listen to you guys. How great it would be if we could actually do something like this in the police world, but I think that it would be ill received. [0:15] JD: You guys are under too much scrutiny. [0:18] Chad: Your department social media presence is incredible, though. You guys have some fun with it. You put out really good stuff. So there is more of that happening now than there ever was in the past. [0:29] JD: Are you guys on TikTok, though? [0:31] Mark: Are you on TikTok? Welcome, everyone, to another episode of Retireaholics. [0:35] JD: My name is William Hackler from Integrated [0:38] Mark: Pension Services, and I'm joined here today [0:40] JD: by Justin Silent J McNeil, Chad Nerdy Chad Johansen, [0:48] Mark: and everybody's favorite retireholic robe guy. [0:54] JD: Welcome to another episode. We're excited to be back. [0:58] Chad: Say, I need to hear that laugh. [1:00] Mark: JD we're excited to be back after a week off. I don't know if you know this, but we took the week off because I was going to take my wife to an Eddie Vedder concert in LA last Thursday. He canceled the concert. [1:13] JD: Joke's on you. [1:14] Chad: Wait, hold on here. [1:15] Justin: You gave me shit three weeks ago for asking to take the day off, and the next week you go take the day off? [1:21] Mark: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [1:23] JD: You know, you work. What was the pivot? What did you do? [1:26] Speaker F: You can't just, like, get denied a concert, not do anything. Did you go? [1:30] JD: Oh, no, he rescheduled. [1:31] Mark: I thought it would be tonight and I would be doing this from a hotel. Instead, I'm here at my office. It's tomorrow night up in la, so I'll go tomorrow night. [1:40] JD: And yes, Mark, I will post it [1:42] Mark: all on Instagram stories for you to catch up on everything. [1:46] Speaker F: So happy when I didn't see that. Those stupid pictures. [1:49] JD: So, anyways, it feels good to be back with all you out there in Zoom Land. [1:55] Mark: A week off feels like forever, man. My liver missed it. I missed it. I missed you. [2:01] JD: Justin, we got a. I always say [2:04] Mark: we have a very special guest, but very special guest. Today, we really, really do have a very special guest. Justin, you intro who our guest is for everybody out there that doesn't know and you all out there, you rate Justin on a 0 to 10 on how he does. [2:19] Justin: Where do I start? I can tell you a story or two about this motherfucker. But my initial thought for the week was, of course, to have some fun, take a few jabs, talk a little shit. But the tiny sliver in my brain that processes logic on occasion reminded me that Ryan has kicked my ass a time or two in the past few years. And since he has some experience in forensics, I'm fearful he'll magically make my body disappear without a trace if I take it too far, which I do on quite the occasion. And based on his prior comment a few moments ago, I think it's clear I made the right decision. So with that said, he's the co founder of Ever Present, San Bruno's chief of police, a former PDC employee, Chad's older twin brother by seven years removed, and one of the nicest motherfuckers out there. Ladies and gentlemen, Ryan Johansson. [3:09] Speaker F: You forgot handsome. [3:13] Chad: I'm going two points. No, I didn't. Justin. [3:16] JD: Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna go more 4.1. I feel like there's an opportunity there to really go high and you just didn't come through. [3:26] Speaker F: You know, I. I didn't. [3:29] Justin: It just. I'm. I'm afraid of Ryan. [3:31] Chad: He got scared. You could have said nice things. [3:34] JD: Yeah, I haven't seen. You had to give him dirt. It didn't have to be dirt. [3:40] Mark: A quick update on chat bar champion. Bradley Bartels is in the lead with his matching hairstyles comment. So see if you can catch him [3:49] JD: before I go through games and, and update Ryan on all the things we [3:53] Mark: do here on the show. Let's just go ahead and spin the wheel of ice, shall we? Let's spin it up. [3:59] Chad: I like. This is JD's way of trying to get us all real drunk real quick. Oh, I thought it was Justin. [4:11] JD: Me, everyone. [4:13] Ryan Johansson: What do you mean everyone? [4:14] Chad: Everyone. [4:17] Mark: I'm liking these vibes. I'm liking these vibes. [4:21] Ryan Johansson: Okay, [4:26] Chad: to pour Basil Hayden's in Smirnoff should be a sin. [4:31] JD: I was gonna talk about the games, [4:32] Mark: but let me take a sip here. And [4:37] JD: Ryde dog, we are gonna be [4:39] Mark: playing chat bar champion today. So what that means for you is keep your eye on that chat bar because you'll get to pick your favorite person in the chat bar based on their comments to go into the finals. And then you out there in the audience, you know what to do. [4:53] JD: You will pick the winner and they [4:55] Mark: will be crowned today's chat bar champion. We'll also be playing Acro Sin. So if you say any acronym or initialism excluding my name, you must drink from your penalty drink, which we all kind of shared earlier. [5:10] JD: And you. [5:10] Mark: If people hadn't tuned in yet, I said, well, Ryan, you probably won't use a lot of our acronyms because you don't know that much about our industry, being a police officer and such. And you said, I think, quote, you know, who uses more fucking acronyms than retirement plan people? Police officers. Right. [5:28] Speaker F: I think he called us a bad name, but. [5:31] Mark: Okay, so those are the two games [5:34] JD: that we'll be playing. We've already knocked out the Wheel of Ice. [5:39] Mark: Let's go straight to Headlines while I try to pound this as quickly as that graphic. [5:51] Chad: Oh, that was weak, jd. [5:53] JD: Yeah, I'm not very much through it. Sorry. I'll keep working on it for 50. [5:58] Chad: And you can't chug straight off or something. [5:59] Speaker F: That shows you the lack of confidence he has in us just to, like, start headlines. He won't even let us start it. [6:08] Mark: I still have this smearing off in my mouth. I have this bad habit of mine. Empower and power has joined BlackRock. And they're on Tick Tock now, everybody. So isn't that exciting? [6:26] Chad: No, I was. [6:27] Mark: Me neither. [6:28] Justin: I thought there was gonna be something more to that. [6:31] JD: You would think I'd be a huge [6:32] Mark: social media fan, you know, given kind of that I'm into that. This everyone being like, yeah, we're on Tick Tock now. We're on TikTok now. I'm like, who cares? Like, like, I don't. I don't even. I went and looked at Black Rock and EMP Power and their Tik Tok stuff, and I would recommend that you all don't. Don't waste your time. [6:51] JD: Okay? We'll move on to the next headline. Let's move on to the next headline. What is it? [6:58] Mark: Hey. Kind of serendipitous. We're going to talk with Chief of Police today about pensions and guaranteed income and that kind of stuff. A lot of the headlines I found seem to center around this guaranteed income, annuity type of stuff. Okay. Heller Income is partnering with Morningstar to offer annuity product options within the Morningstar's Manage account offering. Okay. I don't know a whole bunch about this. I learned about Hewler for the first time really today, although they're not new to this game. So I just want you to know that there's a lot of this stuff hitting the headlines. There are people beyond Matthew Wolnowitz and Income America looking to capitalize on and, or, you know, bring great solutions to guaranteed income. So this is a big move. Tied to this also is a news release from Hub. And Hub now is partnering with Heller Income Solutions, and they're apparently are the, like, the only firm out there right now to offer this kind of seamless integration for their advisors and their advisors clients. So that's a big deal. There are other new sites. Dude, we pull from your site all the time, bro. [8:25] Chad: Jd, are we officially in the the phase? So at least in my short tenure, we've gone through the phase of the Fs. Excuse me, in our business, we've gone through the face of focusing in on costs. We've recently and still are in this litigation phase. I feel like we've gone through a little bit of financial wellness, still slightly in it, but we're heavily pushing right now in the decumulation part of our business. I feel like almost everybody in every publication is talking about it right now. Is this going to be the new two year trend like we saw with all those other ones? I think you're doing a good change. [9:01] Mark: I think you're doing a lot better than what I was trying to do. You just nailed it. Like I'm feeling this tide change and I'm seeing it in these headlines. Everyone's talking about it. Where before I was like, oh, okay, Matthew Wolnowitz is working on this thing and he brought some companies together and okay, let's, let's see how that plays out. And if you remember him on our episode, like we were kind of poo pooing it and you know, we've seen it fail before. [9:26] JD: Remember our episodes? [9:28] Mark: Yeah. [9:29] Speaker F: Wow. [9:30] Mark: And so I, I just want everyone to, to vibe in on what Chad just said. It does feel like the times are changing and let's keep our eye on it and see what's happening. In addition to that, Fred Barnstein came out with his little. Dang it, what are they called? [9:50] JD: Real thoughts. [9:51] Mark: I think I'm getting that right. And so if you go to Retirement Plan Advisor, Convergence, his website, what have you. [9:59] Justin: Nice. [9:59] Mark: Thank you. You can check that out. And he talks about another company and he calls these companies middleware providers that work on kind of the transfer ability of these things. You know, talks about S and C, which is the one that works with Income America. He talks about, oh shit, I got a drink for that. [10:19] JD: Yeah, he talks about another one that's an acronym that I'm not going to say. He talks about I join and. And then he talks about this other one that just got $5.1 million in [10:31] Mark: seed financing, my cruity. [10:34] JD: So. Ww.micruity.com M I C R U I T Y.com the The CEO is Trevor Gary. [10:46] Mark: Check him out on doing it too. [10:48] Speaker F: Weren't you? Yes, I was. Mickey Mouse Clubhouse. [10:51] JD: Check him out. On LinkedIn and there's a little YouTube [10:55] Mark: in his bio on LinkedIn that kind of explains his company. And I'm like, I don't know what to say. People like, I don't quite understand all this stuff. But I'm just back to Chad's point. This shit's happening. Like there's a lot of stuff happening around it now. We'll see how this fits in and, and if this actually comes to fruition. But clearly there are people motivated. [11:15] Chad: Tony Davis said follow the money. And I think that that's a good, it's a really good positive way of looking at it as, as well they call them influencers in other walks of life. But if the money is going towards this decumulation and this lifetime income, then yep, that's where we need to be spending some time talking, learning and making sure that we're prepared to help clients there. [11:37] Speaker F: I have followed a lot of money and all it does is get me in trouble with guys like this. [11:43] Chad: Got you in Vegas. [11:44] Mark: Mark Ryan, how do you, how do you feel about transferability software in the guaranteed income space? I'm kidding. [11:53] JD: I've pulled all these headlines. They've got nothing to do with you. Usually when we ignore the guests, it's bad. But right now we're ignoring you because we're going to get to you here in a second. Napanet. [12:07] Mark: I think I have to drink for that. [12:10] Chad: Do. [12:11] JD: My buttons aren't even working. Chad, you can probably chime in on this because I know you and I [12:16] Mark: have actually been been involved in the creation of a little bit. [12:19] JD: But Nevin came out with a, with a piece about tpas. [12:24] Mark: They actually surveyed advisors. Oh, yep, yep. [12:30] Justin: Hold on. How has no one commented on the donuts? Right here. [12:36] Speaker F: You missed right off. [12:37] Justin: Oh, sorry. [12:39] JD: Oh, Brandon. [12:41] Speaker F: Wow. Justin. No one else thought that real? [12:44] Mark: No, they did. [12:44] Speaker F: Yeah. [12:45] Mark: I don't know. [12:45] Speaker F: Yeah, nice try on the last episode. [12:49] JD: Brandon had been using donuts the last two episodes. [12:51] Mark: And then for this episode he goes, oh, we have a police officer. I'll just use donuts again. It's perfect. [13:01] JD: This, this article, what's working or not with third party administrators. Chad, I know you know how this was kind of built and God bless Nevin for doing this and putting a lot of effort into it. I know I haven't been the best [13:13] Mark: participant in this process as we've kind of helped him develop this, but he [13:17] JD: went out, surveyed advisors and what they thought about tpas. And here, I'll give you some of the headlines. Ah, 76% of them like working with. Well, first of all, 98% of them work with a third party administrator. 76% of them do it because they assist with technical difficulties. 56% felt like, felt like it was overall better for the plan sponsor. 45% of the advisors said it makes their life easier. And it went, it went on and on. But then Nevin shared like my God, 15, 20 like quotes from people in the survey and some of them just get my blood boiling. And it makes me feel like, I [14:06] Mark: love that the national association of Plan Advisors is trying to get together the, the association of Pension Professionals and Actuaries [14:17] JD: or whatever the they're called and you [14:19] Mark: know, bring advisors and third party administrators together. But I still feel like, God, they just don't get it. Like advisors do not understand third party administrators. [14:30] JD: I mean, Chad, did you read through [14:31] Mark: some of those comments at all? Did you see the article? [14:34] JD: What was your initial feeling? [14:35] Mark: You'd spent a lot of time on it. [14:36] Chad: The whole point of this series of articles was to stop what you just said that advisors don't understand third party administrators. It's to have them not understand compliance administrators and people that are doing this work. There is no difference of the work that needs to be done. Whether you are with Empower or with Fidelity or with Plan Designer integrated pensions, the same work needs to be performed. And the whole point of this was to say you need to be evaluating the team that's doing that for you, whether or not it's in house or you're using a third party. And the comments, I mean the comments are what I expected. Standard, standard. And that's really what we need to do a better job as an industry in showing our value and making sure that folks understand where we believe we fit and where we believe we bring value. And clearly we haven't done a good job at that. Otherwise I think we would be getting different answers. [15:32] Mark: I think it's worse than that. Chad. I think you, you nailed it in the start. It's the whole, the whole concept becomes this, like let's talk about bundled versus unbundled and we've talked about this in past shows. That is not the question. The question is you as an advisor. Do you think that's important for you to choose the, the firm that's going to do the compliance work for your clients and should you vet them out and choose them on a variety of certain like strengths and, or, and, or weaknesses? Why do we continue to put third party administrators in this one big bucket and then put bundled providers in this other big Bucket. It's ludicrous to me. Put them all in the same bucket, call them all the same thing, and then compare and contrast them and try to find the best one. But we'll get back to that at a later date. [16:25] JD: But check out that, that article from Nevin. And now we can move on some [16:30] Mark: things that, that our guests can actually speak to. So that was headlines. That was headlines. [16:36] JD: Topic number one, Mr. Chief of Police Ryan Johansson. I want to talk about two things. First thing, can you describe for us [16:46] Mark: what, when you're a police officer, can I call you a cop? Is that offensive? Can I call you a cop? [16:53] Chad: It's, it's peace officer, J.D. peace officer. [16:56] Mark: You, you dudes and dudettes, you get a pension plan, don't you? You get, you, you get like guaranteed income in retirement for life. Can you describe that for us a little bit? Like, how long do you have to work? And does it vary from state to state or county to county? But, like, just give us the kind of, that highlights how long do you have to work? What percentage of income might you get? And then you tell us, like, how do you feel about that? Like, is it cool? Not cool? [17:25] JD: Yeah. [17:25] Ryan Johansson: I'll start with an answer to your last question. I feel fucking great about it, right? But that being said, right, I've been in the business for quite some time. And so even in the state of California, which has a pretty lucrative pension program through CalPERS, I'm at the tip of that, right? So my particular formula is 3% of my highest year's pay per year worked with retiring anytime after age 50 and a max of 90%. So put in 30 years, you're going to get, you know, 90% of your highest year's pay for the rest of your life. You can take a slightly reduced benefit in order to ensure that your spouse gets it after you die, because there's no doubt that my spouse is going to live a lot longer than I am. But that's my formula now. That doesn't exist anymore. Similar format, but for newbies coming in, it's going to vary city to city, county to county within the state of California, but most of them are going to be 2.7% at 57 years old. So same deal, 2.7% per year of your highest year's pay per year worked, but you can't retire until 57. [18:34] Mark: Did you catch that? [18:36] Chad: You said 2.7.7% of the highest year's pay per year worked cap and able to retire 50% capped at 90% of the highest year's pay then. So you got to get. [18:48] Mark: You never get there. [18:49] Chad: You'll never get to 90 years in, 33 years in. [18:52] Ryan Johansson: Yeah. So if you're in that new formula, it doesn't even cap. And the reason is because none of them are going to reach the cap anyway, right? [18:59] Chad: Yeah, they wouldn't get to that age. [19:01] Ryan Johansson: Yeah, well, I don't think any of us want them working at that age. Right. I don't want some 50. [19:05] Chad: Good point. [19:08] Mark: Come back here, you criminal. [19:10] JD: Come back here. Yeah, well, so it sounds like it's [19:16] Mark: very juicy historically and, and as you start your career and are in it and somewhat recently, but it's fallen off a little bit. Like, I don't know if I'm assessing those numbers properly, but sounds like an officer's not going to get that 90 going forward. It's going to be a far lower number. [19:35] Chad: You guys have the opportunity to buy out final years too, Right. If you're close to that age, can't you pay into the pension yourself to buy out prior? No, you can't. [19:45] Ryan Johansson: No. It used to be that you could buy years of service up to 5. Again, this is going to be city and jurisdiction specific based on the MoU that you're working under. But most know what that means. [19:56] JD: But it. [19:56] Justin: What does that mean? [19:58] Chad: Memorandum of understanding. [20:00] Ryan Johansson: Oh, yeah. So you used to be able to do that and it was really smart to do it at the beginning of your career because you're buying those years cheap compared to what you're probably going to make by the end of your career. But most cities won't offer that anymore. You can get up to two years of service credit for your sick time. If you're not one of these folks who doesn't like to work and calls in sick all the time. But otherwise you can't buy back time and you can't retire early unless it's through some sort of a retirement agreement with your city. You know, a golden handshake kind of a deal. [20:28] Mark: Chad Bar asked for your comp. Is, is overtime part of that? [20:33] Ryan Johansson: No, not for us, but there are a couple jurisdictions that do incorporate that and it makes a huge difference. I mean, depending on where you work, [20:42] Justin: that could be like tens of thousands of dollars a swing at that point, can't it? [20:45] Chad: Yeah, overtime can be big. [20:48] Ryan Johansson: If you have a real aggressive, like newbie in my department that, you know, they're single and they're working all kinds of overtime. It's not a, it's not unusual for them to charge. Chalk up another Oh, I was about [20:58] Mark: to say Danny Hackler got you on the I don't know what universal benefit or I don't know what. [21:04] Chad: What's that? [21:04] Speaker F: He said newbie. [21:06] JD: Newbie. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hammered, dude. When I wear the visor, we like, we, like, sync together. [21:15] Mark: Hackler and I, could that be a [21:18] Justin: big, like, angle for the city to say, hey, we're gonna give our, you know, officers low salary, knowing they're going to make a ton in overtime just to keep those benefits down? Or is that. Doesn't that work like that? [21:27] Mark: Dirty dog Justin. [21:29] Speaker F: Just asking. [21:30] Ryan Johansson: There's a lot of ways that they'll try to keep those benefits down. Or if you work for the right city, they'll try to keep them up. Right. There's income that is considered to be persable, meaning that it can contribute towards that highest year calculation, and there's income sources that can't. So like when a bargaining unit agrees on a new contract, for example, or maybe they're going to get a 10% pay raise, oftentimes instead of paying retroactively, the city will want to agree to, like a lump sum payment in order to keep that out of that formula. Because what the city has to contribute towards that retirement program also is relative to what the employee is going to make in retirement. [22:03] Chad: So I'm going to drink for this one because I can't look it up fast enough. But when you talk about income, that's. That's eligible for pension. When you assign someone to, like, San Francisco's DEA unit at the airport, which I know you've done, that's why it says in drink for some detectives. Does that income, when you're outsourcing them to another unit, does that count towards their pension? [22:25] Ryan Johansson: Yeah, because they're still an employee of ours. But by the way, like, I'm gonna give you a little shit. It took you more than three seconds to remember the. That acronym is the Drug. [22:34] Chad: Drug Enforcement Agency. I didn't know the A. I didn't know. [22:38] Ryan Johansson: It's that agency that picked you up on your way to Mexico that time when we were. [22:43] Speaker F: Ryan, I must say, for all that you've done and accomplished and how well you speak, what happened to Chad growing up? [22:51] Chad: Yeah, I got beat by Hashtag. [22:54] Mark: Hashtag dumbass. Hold on. [22:57] Ryan Johansson: Let's put this in perspective for a minute, right? I've spent the bulk of my career getting told to fuck myself and being shot at. I make a quarter of what Chad makes in a year to sit around with you guys and drink. He's probably smarter than I am. [23:10] JD: I don't know. [23:11] Mark: Have you ever worked with financial advisors? It's pretty rough gig. [23:24] Chad: Right there. [23:29] Mark: Let me, let me ask you, Ryan, regardless whether it's 90 or if, even if it ends up being 50%, I mean, most people in the non defined benefit, non pension world can only dream of that type of kind of guaranteed income. And that's what we all kind of chase after when you know that you have it. And I'm not speaking just to you personally, but a lot of your co workers and your, your peers, they realize, you know, let's talk the 90% guy girl, or the, you know, 80% and think like, man, I'm going to have this income coming in. How does that change their mindset as it relates to other savings? [24:10] JD: Like the responsible financial advisor person would think, like, wow, that's going to give you so many opportunities to think about what you could do with other investments. [24:22] Mark: Like, you could almost like be more aggressive or be more speculative or kind of, you know, play with this to kind of supplement that guaranteed income in the future. Is that a common headspace that you [24:35] JD: see with you and your co workers or is it more just. [24:38] Mark: No, it's just this great security blanket that everyone, you know, puts their head on their pillow and thinks about. [24:45] JD: I don't know. [24:46] Ryan Johansson: Yeah, no, that's an awesome question. Because the reality is it probably does both depending on the person you're dealing with. In some cases, it's a huge hindrance to making good financial decisions because you just kind of have this in your head that, well, no matter what, I've got this pension and there's some truth in it, right? I mean, you should, at least in this state where cops make what they do on that pension, you should be able to live quite comfortably as long as you can stay within your means in retirement. But I do think it discourages officers from investing the way they should. And this is especially true in the last 15 years or so where we see kind of a combination of two factors. One, more youth in law enforcement, you're seeing people kind of come in younger, departments are younger as a whole because retirements are earlier and people are fed up and they're leaving sooner. And you combine that with kind of the sociological trends, right, where people don't get married quite as early, they're not having kids quite as young, they're staying in that kind of single lifestyle later into maybe their 30s. In many cases, those individuals really need to be investing because they have the discretionary income to do so. At Least in this state. And usually they're destroying that discretionary income by buying nothing but toys and things that are liabilities and they don't have anyone really. [25:57] JD: Hey Ryan, a big truck is not a toy. [26:01] Chad: It's a toy. J.D. yeah. [26:04] Ryan Johansson: You get my point though, right? I think they do need. It can be both. I think it's this nice safety blanket. But what it should provide, I think in terms of the safety blanket is the encouragement. Then take the remaining income that you can afford to and invest it wisely with someone who knows what they're talking about. Instead, it's more of a, oh, I don't need to think about saving for my retirement. I can just kind of go crazy. [26:23] Chad: Well, that's, that's what. One of the reasons why I so badly wanted you to spend some time with us is because I feel like that community is under serviced. You'll probably talk a little bit at some point about the non qualified deferred comp, the deferred comp plan that you guys have access to. But as a whole, I saw many of your police officers, partners, friends come into the space. They're young, they're making good money and next thing I know they bought a boat, they bought a house, they bought a $70,000 dune buggy to go, to go out in the desert. And every time I chatted with Glenn, the thought was, well, what do I need to save for? Got my pension, I've got my medical. And Ryan and I have gotten into this in terms of how the pension calculates its liabilities. The average age of a police officer is not what we calculate as actuaries in our space. They're not living to 90 years old and many of them know that. And so they go out and they just spend. And I kept getting frustrated going, man, if an advisor would just shake you when you're making 100 plus grand and your liabilities are teeny tiny. [27:27] Mark: What an opportunity, right? [27:28] Chad: So much with this money, Chad, we [27:32] Mark: all know in this, everyone in this chat bar, you think about that, that big truck and that boat and that's that stuff like my lord, you could turn that into a massive nest egg if, if done properly. So that would be a, a better headspace to look at it. I want you to answer a tough question. I don't think it's tough actually because you, you work for us like you protect us as a country, in our streets and all this kind of stuff. There's some, some back and forth going around about comp and, and I know that this varies from state to state. But someone in the chat bar said, Hey, 90 of 45k isn't that much. And, and I get, I, I had some of those thoughts before that police officers, and I still don't think they make enough. And I'm not trying to kiss your ass, Ryan, but to put their life on the line and do the job that they do. But in California, I mean, the average police officer that's making a career out of this and is, you know, 10 years into their job, what do you think they're making on average? To give some people some context? [28:32] Ryan Johansson: Yeah, I mean it definitely varies a lot as you move throughout the state, even through the State Department, department to department, but definitely up here in the San Francisco Bay Area, where I think, I think a little bit counter to the national narrative, you can look at departments that deliberately professionalize law enforcement, which began like in the 70s following a bunch of very negative interactions between police and communities. In the 60s they did so by increasing comp, Creating the retirement system and trying to attract a more white collar worker into law enforcement. To do that in the Bay Area you have to pay because income level up here is very high and competitive. And especially now that we're primarily only hiring college graduates, these are people who could go work elsewhere. I would say up here that your average officer who's tenured at least five years in, where they're kind of maxing out on the salary schedule in the Bay Area without overtime is probably salaried at 150 to $170,000 a year. [29:26] Mark: There you go, people. [29:28] JD: I know Cali's a unique world. [29:30] Mark: You know, we are as big as most countries and stuff. But yeah, there you go. So that gives you. There you go, David. [29:36] Ryan Johansson: Wow. [29:36] Mark: Yeah. So. [29:38] JD: No, so, so I wanted to give that context because I think it's important when we talk about the trucks and the boats and all this kind of stuff. [29:46] Speaker F: Yes, Mark, if that, if that's what the officers make. How much do the chiefs make? [29:56] Chad: No overtime for chiefs. [30:01] JD: You don't have to answer him. Always wonder when Mark puts his finger [30:06] Mark: up, should I, should I call on him? Should I not call on him? I'm so glad I did. [30:10] Justin: When it goes up slowly like this, you know it's going be to be a good one. [30:14] Chad: Let's also remember that many of these folks entering that space. I shouldn't say that maybe that, maybe that's wrong. I was going to say that they don't carry college tuition debt. But you, you guys are hiring mostly graduates that might Carry some college tuition debt, Is there any repayment of that provided by government or police departments? [30:34] Ryan Johansson: Yeah. So what's kind of interesting, right, like police and fire, they get lumped together all the time in that, like, public, you know, safety conversation. [30:41] JD: Except for firemen or wimps, right? [30:43] Ryan Johansson: Yeah, they're. They're all on with your thought, you know, like. No, but. But seriously, right, like, they have a. It's very competitive to become a firefighter, and becoming a police officer is not that way in this current environment. Right. So cities are fighting to try to create a competitive advantage to attract talent. And this is one of the areas where they've really worked to do that is these little ancillary benefits. I think that if you've never thought about getting into police work, and you probably shouldn't, you don't understand, like, the level of benefits that exist there. Like, we're talking here about pension, but, like, in my department, we've got retirement, lifetime retiree, medical. So you work 15 years for the city, you're retired. [31:24] Mark: It's a massive expense, Massive expense for people. [31:27] Justin: Is that if you. I mean, is that anywhere you go and live after you retire, or is. [31:31] Ryan Johansson: It doesn't matter. Yeah, it doesn't matter. And it's. And it's Cadillac Medical, right? I mean, it's the medical you have throughout your career. It's not some degraded version of it when you leave. And as far as tuition, Chad, like, it's interesting when we talk to youngsters who are thinking of getting into this line of work and their heads in the right space, like my parents said, get my degree first. I tell them, I can't tell you not to do what your parents said, but we have a tuition reimbursement program that's literally a scholarship for college. So if you go to school at any of the Bay Area institutions, any of the nine Bay Area counties, or online, we'll pay for 100% of your education all the way up through master's degree and on from there. So when you start stacking those benefits together, right, there's a lot to be desired. [32:11] JD: Don't forget. Don't forget, though, too, like, when you pull over the drug cartel and there's like 5 million in their trunk, [32:20] Ryan Johansson: only [32:21] Speaker F: 4 of it needs to be accounted for. [32:24] Mark: Just kidding, Just kidding. Just kidding. [32:27] JD: Let me know. Hold on, hold on. [32:29] Ryan Johansson: Brad did have a good question. [32:31] Justin: He said it was right. Ryan ever been involved? It's going to be two part. [32:33] Chad: Ryan. [32:34] Justin: Has Ryan ever been in something similar to Matt Damon in the movie the Departed? Go ahead and answer that. And I got a second part to that. [32:45] Ryan Johansson: You're going to have to specify what situation Matt Damon finds himself in the Departed you're asking about. I found myself in all kinds of interesting situations, as this crew definitely knows because there's been a lot of storytelling over the years. Probably best for another platform. [33:02] JD: Yeah. [33:03] Justin: Oh, so the after show. [33:04] Mark: Okay. [33:05] JD: Don't forget, by the way, Randall's interviews with, like, local radio and TV and stuff. He knows enough to not get himself in trouble. Go on. [33:12] Chad: Justin spoke after President Trump two years ago. [33:16] Justin: Fun fact for the attendees, though. Speaking of movies, if you've ever seen the movie, was it Patriots Day? That intro scene is actually. What do you call it? This is actual life event of Ryan's. [33:31] Chad: Right? [33:31] Ryan Johansson: This move? Yeah, that's a real story, actually. There was a whole bunch of people there for that. But the reason it ended up in the movie is because the law enforcement consultant to the movie is a sf. A narc for sfp. [33:44] Mark: He's got a drink for that. Twice, Mark. Twice. Ring him up twice. San Francisco. [33:50] JD: Finish your thought. [33:51] Mark: You can finish your thought. [33:52] Speaker F: In case you didn't know, [33:55] JD: when I know an acronym, I like to proudly proclaim it. [33:59] Ryan Johansson: The whole thing about Hit me with a he says smoothie in the movie. That's not the way it went down. [34:04] Chad: Your version of the story is far better than movies, but it's still cool. [34:09] JD: No, Justin, we are not here to have Ryan tell all his deep, dark stories that we heard before. Sorry, secret, as he so eloquently put it. That'll be for another podcast once he's retired. We have a four one. You got this, this defined benefit, this [34:29] Mark: pension plan that we've talked about. We have a 401k where we put in our own salary deferrals. [34:35] JD: Police officers can also defer from their own comp. Right. Like, is it a 457B or what is. [34:41] Mark: What do you guys have? [34:43] Ryan Johansson: Yep, that's what's offered at least at my city. I'm not sure you know how that varies. City. I think participation in it in this new generation is relatively high because they know that they're in this new formula and that they're really looking at as a way to maybe set up to bridge that gap when they're not quite at retirement age and they don't want to do this anymore. But the challenge is that because the city's obligation to these pension funds is so significant, there's never any kind of a match or anything that really makes it Particularly lucrative. And the thing I'm really curious about, and I'd love to talk a little bit about how I think, like this is a group that's underserved in the financial advisory area in terms of cops, is that I don't know that that's the best place to put your discretionary income. If you've got a defined benefit retirement plan waiting for you, it seems like in the interest of diversification, that extra money you could afford to be a little bit more risky with. [35:42] Mark: True. [35:43] Ryan Johansson: And that's where I think that what's really missing here is that an advisor that could break into this sort of order of police would be huge. [35:53] JD: You're so smart, you're stealing from me. The next big topic. And that's exactly where we're gonna go, [36:01] Mark: Mr. Chief of Police is into that area. [36:04] JD: But before we do it, we gotta [36:06] Mark: mix in a little fun. Play some games. This game is one we've been playing each week for a while because Mark hates doing his lamer game, even though we're going to bring him out of retirement sometime soon. We call this game winners and losers. And we're going to ask you to do a few things here. [36:35] JD: Here's my question for you, Mr. Chief of Police. You've got a really serious crime that needs to be solved. You know, someone's child's gone missing or a murder needs to be solved, whatever. Who do you choose, Ryan? Do you choose the super bad cops or do you choose my name is Jeff. Or do you choose the 21 Jump street crew? Who do you choose? [37:07] Ryan Johansson: This is brutally difficult, but if you ask me who I want to drink beers with, I'm going with Jif. But if it's to solve an actual crime, I'm definitely on the other side of the fence. [37:17] Mark: Really? [37:20] JD: Okay, Mark, you feel the same way? We're trying to see that product. [37:27] Mark: They're sleepy. What's up, homie? You know my cousin, sad boy. You think you got the wrong guy, Holmes. Everyone saying the barrio sleepy. He like the Mexican Wolverine. [37:36] Ryan Johansson: And my partner, he want to see that product when he talking. [37:43] JD: My name is Jeff. [37:45] Mark: Hey, Chef man. [37:51] JD: Mark, which of those two teams are you sending out to go solve your crime? [37:57] Speaker F: Oh, man, that is again, I don't even. I'm not coming at this from the angle that Ryan is on the actual police work side. I have no idea. [38:06] Chad: I would. [38:07] Speaker F: I think I'm just gonna go with the super bad guys because they just look like a blast to hang out with. [38:13] JD: Don't forget out there in the Chat bar. You can play along, too. Who do you choose to solve your crime, Justin? [38:19] Justin: I'm going 21 Jump Street. [38:22] Mark: Yeah, they solve for sure, Chad. [38:26] Chad: A really roundabout way. Yeah, I'm going 21 Jump street too, though. [38:30] JD: Dude, I'm. I'm so with you on 21 Jump Street. I can't believe we're disagreeing with the chief of police because the guys and super bad just go to bars with underage kids and buy booze. Hold on. That was one night. [38:44] Speaker F: Well, you don't know what else that they've done. [38:50] JD: They fall into luck, but they're committed to the task. [38:53] Mark: They get it done. They get it done. I feel bad. [38:57] Ryan Johansson: Understand how crimes get solved. They definitely get solved in bars with underage people. [39:04] JD: Okay, we're moving on to the next one. We got three of these for you, Mr. Chief of Police. Next one. So when you're done working hard, Ryan, you know, or maybe you're supposed to be working and instead you think, I'm feeling a little hungry, you know? Which one of these places does your typical cop go to to feed their belly? [39:31] Ryan Johansson: I don't get to add my own choice. [39:34] JD: Sure, go ahead. [39:35] Ryan Johansson: Come on, man. It's Bruno. It's the Rolling Pin all day long. [39:40] JD: That's a local establishment. People in his city where the cops are there. If you want to find a cop, go. Go to the donut shop in Bruno. Am I lying, Ryan? Am I lying? [39:50] Ryan Johansson: Well, that used. There's a new chief in town, as they say. [39:54] Chad: Oh, it's the leader, though. Can I ask, is it the leader? [39:58] JD: Anyone on this panel here and anyone in the. In the chat bar, maybe? Ryan, you're the most experienced with this. [40:05] Mark: Where the does this. This donut cop thing come from? Like, why is this a thing? [40:12] Ryan Johansson: Oh, it's very clear where it comes from. Right? Back in the day, the only thing that was open 24 hours was your donut shop. Coffee shop. So that's where cops would hang out when it was cold and wet and [40:21] Mark: have a coffee, get some cover. Fair enough. Fair enough. [40:27] JD: I love how it's turned into such a negative, though. Okay, let's go to the next one. The last one. Oh, God, I can't believe they do such controversial shit. [40:34] Mark: You ready for this? [40:35] Speaker F: We don't get to answer that one. [40:36] JD: No, no, we got. [40:37] Mark: We got time constraints. [40:39] Speaker F: Oh, [40:41] JD: oh, the Rolling Pin. There you go. Rolling Pin. I got one more for you. And it's. Which one of these, I don't know, is your favorite band [40:55] Chad: out of ideas? Huh? J.D. [40:57] Justin: what it's all branded. [40:59] JD: Do you know what's really famous? Are you kidding me? Chad out of ideas. These are genius. [41:05] Ryan Johansson: This is brutally difficult because I actually really like them both. But there's no way that Ice Tea can hold the jock strap of NWA Fair. [41:12] JD: Great answer, Great answer. And Chad to you. I still, I need you to explain to me. Are you kidding me? This is the best winners and losers of the entire show right here. [41:23] Chad: I didn't get it when you threw it out. I didn't think of the f. The police. I wasn't there with you. I'm there and you. [41:30] JD: Do you know what? [41:30] Mark: Ice teas [41:33] Chad: right about now. [41:34] JD: NWA Quarters in full effect. [41:36] Chad: That's it. [41:37] Ryan Johansson: Now I'm out. I'm out. Did you. [41:39] JD: Chad, do you remember Ice Tea and his group Body Count and their. [41:43] Chad: Yes. [41:44] JD: Famous song? [41:46] Chad: Took me a minute. [41:47] Justin: J.D. [41:47] Chad: it's a little slow. [41:48] Mark: Okay? [41:50] JD: I shouldn't expect the guy in the quarter zip to know that kind of stuff. Justin. Favorite. Favorite of those two groups. [41:56] Chad: NWA Picker. [41:57] JD: It's a no brainer. Like it's, it's like, it's like Fred Re against Jesus. [42:02] Chad: Mark. [42:03] JD: NWA Or Body Count. [42:06] Speaker F: Oh, it's NWA all day. [42:09] JD: I agree. NWA And Chad or Ryan just for your intelligent like Fred. [42:14] Mark: Reese. [42:14] JD: Jesus. [42:15] Mark: It's Reese. [42:15] JD: Okay, let's move on. Let's move on to topic number three. Chad talked about something. I. I had no idea you become a police officer. [42:29] Speaker F: Oh, man. [42:35] JD: Okay. All right, we'll catch up on that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, let's take a moment everyone. I'm gonna go straight to the bottle. Thank you, David. [42:45] Speaker F: Thanks, David. So self policing. [42:47] Ryan Johansson: Not on. Not on schedule today. [42:49] Chad: Wait, what's that acronym for? Not going there. [42:58] JD: Oh, boy. David, I'm doing this for you, man. That's legit. I'm going deep on this. [43:07] Speaker F: Okay, it's going to ring everybody up here real fast. [43:11] JD: Chad brought to my attention that when [43:14] Mark: you're a police officer, there's some. There's a moment where it's like mandatory. Some people are going to help you get your orders in place for like your family. Right. Like, and I hate to talk about [43:27] JD: this, it's kind of where we're going to go towards the end of the show. A little bit like people's own mortality. But, you know, you're on the job, you may lose your life, you may get disabled or something. And so they actually, like, make sure that someone comes and kind of sits [43:43] Mark: down with you and plans for your family or beneficiaries that. Can you tell us a little more about if. Am I getting that right? [43:50] JD: And then what that looks like. [43:52] Ryan Johansson: Yeah, I mean, I don't know that all departments do it, but they should, right? And it's, it is kind of morbid. But as you come in the door, your first day could be your last. Your last day could be your last. Right? [44:03] Mark: Fair enough. [44:03] Ryan Johansson: Honestly, really? No. I mean, I was involved in my first officer involved shooting with about three months on the job. So we do bring them in and we talk to them a lot about just basic stuff. What do you want? Like some people don't want the big dog and pony show funeral, right, where you've got the huge procession and you know, 500, 5,000 cops showing up and who do you want to have notify your family? You know, who do you have? Someone close to you that can make that notification? And it includes all kinds of both sort of, you know, emotional planning. And then there's also of course, the financial side of it of designating who your beneficiaries should be and who your backup beneficiaries are. And there's more than just the pension, there's all kinds of benefits if God forbid, you should lose your life in the line of duty. And so there's designating who those people should be and how they should be communicated with is a part of that intaking process for us. It's part of which, you know, I'd love to talk about as we have more time at some point. But I think that kind of the key to the whole narrative that we hear now about like this disconnect between police and communities really has to do with the wellness of police officers. And I understand I have a biased perspective, but at the end of the day I think that the way that interactions with the community go best is if you have a well adjusted, very happy, healthy, emotionally intelligent human being that's interacting with other human beings on the street. So when something goes bad, and it will, it's part of how the job goes, they can be expected to react kind of above and beyond what the average human would be able to do. But to do that, we have to actually take care of our people, our police officers. And I mentioned that briefly here because this intaking process and over all financial health is an important piece of that puzzle. There's a lot of surveys of cops of like what causes them stress. And the layperson would think, oh, it's the fear of being shot at, it's, you know, wrestling with suspects, it's infectious disease, it's all these things we're exposed to every day. And in most cases, the number one concern has to do with finance and what will happen with my family if, God forbid, I go to work today and I don't come back home. And so I think that that kind of segues into this conversation about, like, how we need to do a better job of equipping them with the knowledge to be better prepared for that future. [46:17] Mark: We just got kind of good, by the way. Deep, Ryan. Like, it made me think, like, shit. Like, if we get their financial life in order a little bit, they can be better on the job. And not to get super political here, but we've seen all the drama in society over the last, you know, two years. We need those people that are in uniform, as healthy mentally as they can be. Right. And their finances is a big part. If their home life's a wreck and their finances are a wreck, that's not good for all of us. So that's kind of interesting to hear you talk about that. [46:57] Chad: And I know, Ryan, just because of the conversations that we have, there is research to support all of this, that spending time with these folks up front and ongoing. You've implemented a mental wellness program within the department and curriculum through the states and other states adopting it that have led to happier human beings that police with full integrity and do so in a way that they feel good about when they're able to leave for the day. And there's a lot to be said not only in the community that you operate in, but also in the one that we do as financial advisors are servicing the average person. We can't just focus on the financials. We need to bring wellness all the way around as part of the relationships that we're delivering to clients. And. And we've been chatting about that in the 401k space for a while. But the conversations that you and I have had around what you do for police officers is what I would like to see people do for their clients. Not financial. Not just. And setting up a trust and a will and assessment, but. But help them understand what's going to allow them to comfortably get into that next stage of their life. [48:08] Mark: Chad is so well put. [48:10] JD: Thank you. Jack's Nuggets. Perfect. You know, well said. [48:13] Mark: I. We get so caught up in financial services. [48:17] Speaker F: Sorry. Sorry Chad had to do that. He's sitting here chomping like his brother is taking the spotlight. He's saying all these things so eloquently. [48:25] JD: Competition. [48:26] Speaker F: I need people to remember that I'm smart. My brother punched me in the face 25 times. [48:34] Mark: No, I think that was a beautiful, I think that was a beautiful moment in that we can all agree the severity of Ryan and his, and the people that work for him and his co worker situation, right? We can all sit here and be like, yeah, that's police. [48:48] JD: Like, we need to make sure that [48:49] Mark: we get their finances order and that they understand that their family's taken care of and that, you know, life. Well, just the regular people need that [48:57] JD: shit too, you know, like they're living their life. [49:00] Mark: And to Chad's point, as an industry, [49:03] JD: we need to think of it more like the police officers and what they do and give a little more attention to this and every human being deserves [49:11] Mark: this kind of attention to their future, you know, and, and it's going to help them live a better life and, and, and be better at it. And obviously it's, it's more important for police officers to do a good job than it is for, you know, Justin, Chad and Mark. [49:25] JD: But we still want Justin, Chad and [49:27] Mark: Mark to have sanity and balance and, and feel good about their, their family. I'm going to ask you, I don't think everyone on the show knows. [49:35] Ryan Johansson: Oh, this is the most moving thing I've ever heard. [49:39] Mark: Brandon always plays that when I say something stupid. I want to. We're going to go quick to. Before we get to the end of that. Ryan, you're not just chief of police, you're also an entrepreneur and a president of the company. [49:53] JD: But if you could maybe for three minutes, three to four minutes, give me [49:59] Mark: a take on as the everyman, the non financial services person, and maybe you want to think about police officers. How do you feel about financial advisors? And here you are, Chief of police. How do you feel about financial advisors that want to come in and help the advisors that, or, excuse me, the police officers that work underneath you. Are we scum that are trying to make a bunch of money? Are you all confused by us? Are you, are you concerned? I mean, how do you feel about our industry? [50:35] Ryan Johansson: Yeah, I think, I think that, you know, cops are oftentimes almost the ultimate cynics. Right? I mean, all day long our job is to pick out the anomalies and to interject ourselves in that kind of equation and to kind of assume that everyone has disingenuous intentions to a certain degree. Right. Um, but I will tell you that it's actually not. The industry is not vilified, at least among police officers. The question is who to trust. And I think, you know, in talking to Chad, we've talked a lot over the years about like, you know, how does a financial advisor or someone in this space get most of their business? And clearly it's referrals. It's, it's, you know, if I tell you, as my friend jd, you say I really need to get my finances in order to. And I'm able to tell you I have someone I'm working with who's done well for me, who I trust, then, then everything's good. I think that's what cops are looking for is like they know they need to make better decisions financially. They know they need someone who's in the know and they're not willing to take the time to learn how to do this on their own. And they're afraid that if they try to do it on their own, they'll squander away what they have to invest. They're open to being educated and led in the right direction, but there's no way, at least in our industry that they're going to take that leap of faith of like, I'm just going to look someone up on the Internet and pick an advisor. [51:56] Mark: Word of mouth. [51:57] Ryan Johansson: Yeah, it is word of mouth. It is. They. [52:00] JD: Do you see that? Do you see that in your own city? [52:03] Mark: Like, are there advisors that, that focus on you and your peers? [52:08] Ryan Johansson: No, I wouldn't say I've come across any that focus necessarily on, on police. But that's probably just because there hasn't been a marketing effort or it's been introduced to me or to. I will say that, like, there have been some introductions through relationships here over the years and I think that hasn't stopped at one of my people using those services. Right. They're happy with that advisor and they immediately tell the other cops who are looking to do things, hey, this is where to go. And I mean, I will tell you, they're hungry. Cops are good at knowing what they don't know. And they know they don't know about finance, but they know they have enough income they can afford to be risky with to do some things to improve their quality of life in retirement, which is what they're all looking to do. [52:49] Mark: You're so right. They're hungry. I haven't told everyone here listening in, [52:53] JD: but I knew Ryan is my best friend. I knew Ryan before I knew Chad. And I hung out with Ryan and [53:03] Mark: his co workers in San Bruno, the police officers. And it was funny when we would sit around together, I was actually the [53:10] JD: only non police officer on an adult softball league that was all cops, right? Me, you Ryan and your co workers. [53:17] Mark: And it was really interesting to hear me being in finance at the time, [53:22] Speaker F: was that what you had to do to get, like, when you got. You got thrown in prison. They're like, you gotta play on our softball team. [53:29] JD: Oh, no, I was not the ringer, Webby. Mr. Ryan here was the guy who hit the home runs on our team. But no, when we would sit around [53:38] Mark: and have beers after the game, it was funny how often their conversations would go to investments and their financial life. And so when you say they're hungry, I'll back you up. I was really shocking to me to like, wow. These guys always want to know how they can kind of take advantage of their situation and up their game and have kind of outside things that are happening. So anyways, with that, we only have [54:01] Chad: so much time in that space. [54:03] Mark: Say that again. [54:04] Chad: A referral is gold if you. It's such a tight community that once you get in and you do a good job, they all speak. And I'm not just talking within one department. Like it casts a very large relationship quickly. [54:17] Mark: Yeah. [54:18] JD: And I'm. [54:22] Ryan Johansson: I just was going to say I don't. I don't know of a. Of a business or an industry other than potentially the military that's more sort of fraternal in that regard right there. We all look to each other all the time for what to do, who to trust, what services to implement. And you gotta, you know, put into context that you're talking about in excess of a million and a half police officers in the United States. Right. I mean, there's this. [54:46] JD: Is that have a unique. [54:48] Mark: They have a unique situation in that unlike most Americans, most Americans don't have a pension plan. And so their needs are super unique. Like it. [54:58] JD: It's. [54:59] Mark: There's a lot of opportunity there to do some different stuff for them. [55:03] JD: Case in point, they're all sitting around after the softball game talking about what they should do with their money, you know, outside of their pension. Well, everyone. Ryan's not just chief of police. Ryan is also the president and founder of a company called Ever Present. If we. We bleed in to pass a 30 minute up, that's fine. The. The 5:30 mark. [55:26] Mark: That's fine here on the West Coast. I know some of you are all [55:30] JD: across the country, but Ryan, if you can give me the emotional story, the inspiration forever present. And then as you get to the end of it, let us know you what it is and what. [55:44] Mark: And what you've created here. [55:48] Ryan Johansson: Yeah, so sometimes can be a little bit difficult to talk About. Because Ever Present is definitely a very personal kind of a project for me and for the people that are involved in it. So for those. I mean, everyone here in this panel certainly knows me really well, Right? But when I was really young to four kids, I was 11, my dad got ALS, Lou Gehrig's disease, and he died. [56:12] Speaker F: Press the button on that one. [56:13] JD: No. Yeah, you give a pass, the first pass in acrostan. And let's remind everyone, the obvious. [56:18] Mark: Chad's dad, too. [56:20] Ryan Johansson: Actually, my dad would probably prefer I take a drink for that, so I'll do that. That's on you. But, yeah, so please drink with you. Three years later, when I was just 14, he passed away. And so he had these three years to kind of try to build into his process the knowledge that he was not going to be around for almost all of the things in the lives of his kids that he always. We all assume will be around for. We assume we'll be around for weddings and childbirths and graduations and all these things. And I spent a lot of time with my dad in those three years, a lot of it caring for him. ALS is pretty brutal and pretty much takes away your ability to care for yourself. But what is kind of crazy is that all that time I spent with him, I had no idea that he was doing something that would quite literally save my emotional life as an adult and probably keep my family together in his absence, which is that he thought about all of those things, and he took to writing letters, and he wrote, I mean, hundreds of letters in an effort to be there for all the things he knew he wasn't going to actually be there for. I mean, to put this in context, right, about three, four years after my dad passed, I graduated high school, and I got a letter from my dad. Even on the day he passed away, I had a letter that was written for me from him to open on that day to help me work through what that day was going to mean and what he knew it would mean. A letter for his funeral, a letter when I graduated high school, letter when I graduated college, a letter when I got married, a letter when my first kid was born. I mean, he thought about so many things, and here I am some 30 years later. And as a result, my dad has been an active part of my life, even though he hasn't been in it since I was 14 years old. And my kids, who never met their grandfather, totally know who he was and what he was about, what he cared about through these letters. And so, you know, Chad and I Talked about this a lot over the years. And I just really felt like this was this amazing. I had this huge level of gratitude for this gift given to me, that this could have been this debilitating event in my life. And instead it ended up being kind of the impetus for who I became because of what my dad did, in large part. And I thought it would be really great if we could pay this forward. It'd be great if everyone could do this. And so, to be quite honest, right. I didn't do it for years and years, even when I had kids. And then I had a day on the job shortly after becoming a police officer in San Diego in which I was involved in a shooting and shot at more than 17 times. And it was a real close call. And I came home and I remember thinking, you're totally unprepared. I have a two and a half year old, a newborn. If you pay the ultimate price, what are you leaving? Like, they're not even going to know who you were. They're going to have no idea how you felt about them. And they're going to have all these events in their life that should be so joyous. Their graduations, their weddings, and probably a piece of them is just going to think about how much they miss you. And so I sat down and tried to do what my dad did. And I was completely incapable of doing. Was a train wreck. I was just a crying, sobbing mess. It definitely wouldn't have made any of those events in the lives of my kids any better. It would have just made it more sad. Can't imagine, you know, my daughter watching some video before her wedding. That's her dad crying and sobbing about not being there and all this nonsense. Right. And that's not what my dad did. All the letters were very uplifting and very, like, positive in a different vein. So it became pretty clear to me that there's a need and that's kind of where ever present was birthed from. So we decided that we're outside the era of needing to write letters and that a face and a voice is that much more impactful. And so we created a system that will guide people through the process of creating a whole series of audio video messages that are specifically designed for certain life events or certain things that are going on. Let's say you just had a really shitty day and normally you would turn to your mom to kind of get some support. Well, mom can leave you a video for a shitty day and you can access the system and pull up the video mom left for you all those years ago to kind of uplift you on a shitty day, the way maybe only she knows how in which she is speaking directly to you. You're seeing her face, you're hearing her voice to kind of carry you through those difficult times. And kind of the cool thing about ever present is it makes it easy to do this right. Like I said, recording the videos was super hard. Writing letters was super hard. We've built a system that's based on a lot of consulting with kind of the psychological end of grieving and loss and what people really need to hear that takes you through an interview process. So instead of having to think of what to say, the system simply asks you a series of questions. And as you answer those questions, mostly with storytelling, the system then compiles them into videos that are specific to certain life events and things that are. [1:01:01] JD: You can help. [1:01:02] Mark: You can help someone execute on it and do it properly. I was. You had let me know about this in early stages. And so I practiced doing some of these videos for my kids, and they're [1:01:14] JD: just a mess of me crying on [1:01:16] Mark: the camera, you know, like. [1:01:18] JD: And so, yeah, you need a process. You. You need a template to follow to do it right? Because nobody wants. My kids don't want to just see me there crying, telling them I'm dead. [1:01:27] Ryan Johansson: But, yeah, and consistent with all of, like, you know, good financial planning, right, There's. There's mechanisms in place to ensure that you don't have to worry about these things getting to the people you love at the tail end. The system is built in to use basically an executor model so that when you're. You're. The person in charge of your affairs comes into the system and says, hey, unfortunately, you know, Ryan has passed away, you click a button and go through some validation, and then those video messages are automatically sent to the people that you left them for directly, and they can have them and own them and access them forever. And so it's, you know, it's still relatively new. We're still, you know, obviously working through some kinks, but it works, it's effective. And pretty excited to kind of bring it. [1:02:09] JD: Ryan, have you ever. [1:02:10] Ryan Johansson: Next time, don't tell pig jokes to a copy. [1:02:14] JD: Have you ever heard. [1:02:16] Mark: I'm sure you have. Have you heard of people who have someone who pass away and then they. They just hang on to the voicemail? Oh, yeah, you know, that's a very common thing. Like. Like, I would do that. Like, if my father. I would hang on to the voice. Mark raises hand and so this is like that times 20, you know. Right. I'm sorry, I shouldn't be making pitches for your company. But yeah, if people hang on to [1:02:40] JD: that voicemail, you'd think they'd be interested [1:02:42] Mark: in something like this. [1:02:44] Ryan Johansson: We can enhance. Will we enhance? [1:02:47] JD: I feel like Brandon wants to lighten the mood. No, that was cool. And I and I think we can take it to the after show even and talk a little more about could [1:02:56] Mark: financial advisors think that ever present could be part of their toolbox? Like instead of just helping someone with guaranteed income, why not be that, you know, that real human level person that helps them with, you know, their mortality in some way. Like you're kind of doing that anyways in some weird way shape or form. So maybe ever present fits for advisors to talk to their clients about. [1:03:22] JD: Let's do chapter champion. We'll go to the after show and then talk a little bit more. Justin, I have one question. [1:03:29] Speaker F: I have one because we joked about the donuts and all that and I don't mean to go back to that because it's such an overblown thing. I am just curious. Do cops have to pay for their own donuts or do you get to use a company credit card? [1:03:45] Chad: Mark wants to expense donuts is what he's getting at. [1:03:47] Speaker F: Basically. I don't like donuts. I like donut holes. Fuck donuts. Donut holes are the best. [1:03:53] Ryan Johansson: He's not going to answer you just put it on the T for me to say so many things I'm not going to say. Okay, sorry, sorry. [1:04:02] JD: Justin, your vote for chat bar champion. [1:04:08] Mark: Yo, Jim Sampson, very well done. All right, Chad. [1:04:13] Chad: I tough one, but I feel like Brad was. Was solid early and a couple comments late. So I'm going Bartels. [1:04:20] Mark: Bartels. Mark Palmini. [1:04:26] Speaker F: Jeremy blew my mind and said that he. That he knows some Bay area rap artists that I grew up on. So he and I are gonna have to vibe on that a little bit. Yeah, I use the word vibe. You heard it here first. Jeremy. [1:04:40] Mark: Okay, I was gonna go Brad. And then when Chad said Brad, I was gonna go Jeremy. So we'll leave it at that. You guys, that was what Heidi was. [1:04:49] Chad: Ryan's gotta vote, right? [1:04:50] Mark: Ryan, your vote for chat bar. [1:04:52] Ryan Johansson: Dude, I don't have the skill set you guys do to monitor this the whole time. But when I was watching this is actually really difficult. I was all about Jeremy had a bunch of awesome things already been said. And then. And then Tony comes in with the last minute Mark. Donut holes are just like cotton Balls. Tony, you're in, dude. [1:05:13] JD: Nice. I like that. Very good. Well done, Tony. [1:05:20] Mark: Brandon, there you go. That's our four into the final. And then you out there in the audience, you get to vote the winner for cash and prizes. [1:05:29] Chad: Heidi did have it. There was a lot of good comments tonight. Heidi was active, too. Yes. [1:05:37] Mark: Cash. Yeah, we signed cash. Brad, have you never. [1:05:40] JD: You've. [1:05:41] Mark: Brad ever won? [1:05:43] Chad: Oh, that was before we started sending cash. [1:05:45] JD: Cash. [1:05:45] Mark: Oh, okay. [1:05:47] Speaker F: Missed out, buddy. Sorry. [1:05:49] Chad: And Brad, we stopped. So if you win tonight. Sorry, we stopped. No, no cash tonight either. [1:05:59] Mark: Here we go. The votes are coming in. [1:06:02] JD: I like that we went long. [1:06:03] Mark: I felt like it was time to go long. [1:06:08] Chad: Well, we. There. There's some. There's some interesting ties that I hope we make in the after show. I think will be fun. [1:06:16] Mark: It's tight right now. Anyone. We get a final vote in. Well, now it's really tight. Anyone else want to get a final vote in? Push, push, push. Someone vote. Put it over the edge. [1:06:30] Justin: We have a. Like a literal tie right now. [1:06:32] Speaker F: It's close. [1:06:33] Mark: Yeah, we got a tie. [1:06:35] Chad: Oh, right. We've never had a tie. [1:06:37] JD: Jeremy. No, Jeremy's a winner. Jeremy. [1:06:43] Chad: It shows a tie. [1:06:44] JD: It's tied at the last second. [1:06:48] Chad: 35. 35. [1:06:49] Mark: Okay. All right. It's a tie. Nobody wins. [1:06:57] Speaker F: We used to have a tiebreaker, but. Yeah, it was you mark that failed miserably. [1:07:01] JD: That was no me. [1:07:02] Mark: You were the tiebreaker then. [1:07:04] Speaker F: Yeah. [1:07:04] JD: Okay. [1:07:04] Ryan Johansson: Why don't we offset the tie with some. You guys only send return hireholic swag. I can send some PD swag. [1:07:10] Chad: Oh, PD swag's good. Those challenge coins like sons. [1:07:13] Speaker F: Like some bloody clothes and some. [1:07:16] Ryan Johansson: What the mark. [1:07:17] JD: No, we're gonna send it. We're gonna send it to both the evidence room. [1:07:20] Speaker F: Do evidence rooms? [1:07:23] Justin: Yeah, like with the cage and everything? [1:07:26] Speaker F: Yeah, like, ask a guy. [1:07:27] JD: Like, tell him evidence rooms exist. [1:07:29] Ryan Johansson: I told him to be himself. That was pretty mean, I guess. [1:07:32] Chad: Yeah, they get worse and worse the more he drinks. Ryan. [1:07:35] JD: No, we're going to do a tie. We'll do a tie. Brad and Jeremy, you both won. So Brad and Jeremy make my life more complicated. Put in the chat bar. Which retirement plan beer mug you would like. A Justin, a Chad, a JD or a mark. [1:07:49] Ryan Johansson: And then retire holics. [1:07:52] Mark: What did I say? [1:07:53] Justin: You said retirement plan. [1:07:56] JD: Retire myself and then I love vodka. And then send me your address. [1:08:04] Mark: Unless drinking a lot of vodka in my free time. [1:08:14] JD: And then make sure. [1:08:16] Mark: Okay, Brad's got a J.D. jeremy. I got a Chad mug, so. Okay, that's that was my next question. [1:08:22] JD: So, Jeremy, I've got your address. [1:08:24] Chad: All right. [1:08:26] JD: All right. Yeah, yeah, I got you guys. Mark, Jeremy, and a jd. I'm pretty sure you have both your addresses, Bradley. [1:08:33] Mark: If I don't, then. Private message me. [1:08:36] JD: Private message me your address. I can't speak. Okay, let's close it out. Let's close it out and then we'll head to the after show. [1:08:44] Chad: I'm going to the bathroom. [1:08:45] JD: Yeah, yeah, me too. Brandon, please. [1:08:48] Mark: Oh, thank you, everyone. Thanks for tuning in. [1:08:50] JD: We love you. We appreciate you. That's so awesome. Ryan. Thanks for being with us and sharing [1:08:57] Mark: your thoughts and being part of our little crew. [1:09:01] Speaker F: Way cooler than Chad. [1:09:02] JD: Yes, we love you, Ryan. We do. [1:09:06] Mark: And fuck. [1:09:08] JD: We'll be. We'll be in Nashville in two weeks for the American Trust Conference. [1:09:14] Mark: We'll be doing our show live on stage at 4pm ish on Thursday the 10th. I'm getting that right, Mark? [1:09:25] Justin: Yep. [1:09:25] JD: And so if anyone's attending that conference, we can't wait to see you in Nashville and on the streets of Nashville. The last time we were there, Brandon puked in Justin's hotel room and Mark tried to get on stage with a bunch of people that did not want him on stage with him. But guess what? [1:09:40] Mark: Nashville. [1:09:41] JD: We're coming back. [1:09:42] Ryan Johansson: Let you know that he knows you're full of. [1:09:46] JD: And that's been another episode of Retireaholics. Play a song. [1:09:52] Justin: What? What am I missing in that song selection? [1:09:55] Mark: Who said what? [1:09:56] Chad: Said what? Band's name is the Police. [1:09:59] Speaker F: Oh, Jesus. [1:10:03] JD: Wow. [1:10:04] Chad: Hey, Johnson.