Paul Carlson: 401(k) Pioneer & ADP Litigation | Retireholics

[0:00] Paul Carlson: Yeah, yeah. [0:01] Chad: This is great comedy. [0:03] Paul Carlson: Okay. Sorry, Mark. [0:05] Justin: Lame or game. [0:07] Chad: Showing off your zoom skills. [0:11] Paul Carlson: Hey, so how do the people come on the show? Do you let them in at a certain time? [0:17] Chad: They're on, they can come in anywhere they want. Yeah. [0:20] JD: Okay, so they've all left now because you came in, but that's fine. [0:24] Paul Carlson: Well, I don't know. [0:24] Speaker E: We got a handful in here, right? [0:26] Paul Carlson: I had a whole comedy routine that was designed for your audience, not for you. [0:30] Justin: Well, yeah, well, that starts at. [0:33] Chad: You'll know when it starts. That starts at 4:30. We'll do a big grand entrance, but sometimes people come on early just to see some of the banter. [0:42] Speaker E: Julie, Casey's here. [0:45] Speaker F: Yeah, people come on early, usually because I asked Paul, you're upside down again. Questions, and they like that. [0:54] Speaker G: Paul, you're upside down again. [0:56] Justin: Is Julie. [0:57] Paul Carlson: Oh, dang. [0:57] Justin: Is Julie the one? [0:59] JD: Yes. [1:02] Speaker F: Awesome. [1:02] JD: By the way, calculator. [1:03] Paul Carlson: These new 27 inch monitors, they kind of, when you flip them sideways, they orient themselves. So I must be some setting somewhere. [1:13] Speaker G: Well, it didn't. [1:16] Paul Carlson: I'm just a boomer. I'm not a zoomer. Come on. [1:18] Speaker E: Yeah, you gotta futz around and look at it all, like, confused. [1:23] Paul Carlson: All right. [1:23] Chad: Yeah, you gotta play the role. [1:25] Justin: Julie. Julie, that was a dope. [1:28] Chad: Calculate your potential tax credit. Little Excel calculator thing you did. [1:36] Paul Carlson: Twist it around, try to get it up. [1:41] Speaker F: All right, Anyway, let's just know. [1:43] Chad: Hey, dad. [1:44] Paul Carlson: Yeah? [1:44] Speaker G: We're gonna. [1:45] Justin: We're gonna start in about six minutes and I just. [1:48] Chad: I think we should shift the whole idea of the show. You just do tricks and talk and [1:55] Justin: we'll just watch you. [2:00] Paul Carlson: I'm sorry, this technology crap. [2:03] Justin: I think we'll go viral. [2:09] Paul Carlson: All right. [2:13] Justin: Are you really staying upside down? Is that the thing? I'm good. I'm good with it. [2:18] Paul Carlson: Not everybody can drink this way. [2:20] Speaker F: I'm surprised you don't spill on yourself. [2:24] Paul Carlson: I usually do. It's kind of like going to a dentist. You ever drink after you go to the dentist? [2:30] Speaker F: I drink booze after I go to the dentist. Very seldom water. [2:37] Speaker E: I'm just waiting for the Australia joke. [2:41] Paul Carlson: Australia. So where's your audience? Do they show up? Can I see them on my screen, please? [2:49] Speaker G: See them. [2:51] Speaker F: See them, Paul. [2:52] Paul Carlson: Oh, or Justin, the only one that see the comments. No. [2:56] Speaker G: So in the bottom there's a button [2:58] Justin: that says chat and that'll show you. [3:01] Chad: And then click over to the attendees and you'll see who's here. [3:06] Paul Carlson: Oh, you do have a few on already. Click over to the attendees. Participants, [3:15] Justin: maybe. [3:16] Speaker F: Yeah. [3:16] JD: Well, sure. [3:18] Paul Carlson: All right. [3:19] Speaker E: There'll be two tabs, panelists and attendees. [3:26] Paul Carlson: That's all right. [3:28] Speaker F: Don't worry. JD Will give you the rundown to start the episode. Of all the things you need to know as a. All right. [3:36] Paul Carlson: I just want to know when Nevin comes on. [3:39] Chad: Hopefully he'll be here. [3:44] Speaker F: O. B1. [3:50] Paul Carlson: All right, it's. [3:53] Speaker E: Don't screw it up. [3:55] Speaker F: I'm gonna show you here, Chad, what you see, Lauren, say, you guys should [4:05] Speaker G: have just given Godfather Dial in. Know your audience. [4:12] Chad: He's just playing a role. [4:15] Paul Carlson: You have no idea how much time Brandon and I spent trying to get my virtual camera to work with zoom. [4:21] Speaker F: Nice, B. [4:23] Paul Carlson: Only to find out I had to downgrade my zoom to an older model. [4:28] Justin: Wait, is this part of your. [4:29] Chad: Is this part of your shtick right now? You're going to be upside down when we start. [4:34] Paul Carlson: Yeah. [4:35] Chad: Okay. [4:35] Justin: All right. [4:36] Chad: I'm down. [4:36] Speaker F: Yeah. [4:38] Paul Carlson: I mean, I'm supposed to show that I don't know how to run my computer right. Or my camera. [4:42] Chad: Okay, [4:47] Justin: Mark, I'm going to need your help with the comedy here. [4:51] JD: I'm a little. [4:52] Paul Carlson: I am. [4:53] JD: Or the lack thereof, a little speechless right now. [4:56] Justin: I'm going to need your help. [4:58] Speaker F: But remember, someone gave Nevin. I can't remember who it was, but someone gave Nevin a hard time that we could see up his nose. And I feel like I can see Paul's brain right now. [5:09] Speaker G: Speaking of Nevin, it was good to see you finally got a decent camera. [5:13] Speaker F: Oh, you mean in his releases? Yeah. You guys see what Blake wrote? Blake flipped his screen now, so we're all upside down, and Paul's right side up. [5:29] Justin: That's a good one. That's a good one. [5:40] Paul Carlson: All right. I'll turn it right side up if you want me. [5:46] JD: Save it, dad. [5:46] Speaker E: I'll go full screen and it'll be good. I'm gonna do that. [5:50] Speaker F: Okay, you. [5:51] Justin: Do you. [5:52] Chad: We're about two minutes out, JD the first. [5:57] Speaker F: At least in my knowledge. The first Advisor event is coming up on Thursday. That's why I was writing you about what the recording. Transamerica is doing a beer pickup where advisors come by. It's out front. They order two or three six packs. They. They get their beer, social distance, say hi and leave. That was a pretty good idea. [6:20] Speaker E: Are they gonna do the inner tubes? You haven't seen that? [6:25] Paul Carlson: No. [6:26] Speaker E: This bar in Baltimore tried this thing where they gave everybody, like, a little table and an inner tube and a little rolling platform. [6:34] Justin: They all just roll around. [6:36] Chad: That'll be the retireholics first event for advisors. We'll have our social distancing tubes with retireholics logos on it. [6:47] Justin: I think that's. I think that's a great idea in theory. [6:50] Chad: I'm gonna be a pessimist now. How many beers do I get? Am I really gonna show up to have them hand me a beer? I mean, I can have that shit delivered to my door. [7:00] Speaker F: Dude, it's from a local brewery. You're supporting a local business. It's good micro. [7:05] Chad: Come on. [7:07] Speaker F: We can't all be as spoiled as jd. [7:09] Justin: Yeah, look at Brandon's. [7:11] Speaker G: There it is. [7:16] Paul Carlson: Chad, [7:18] JD: you said Thursday was the first. They're doing one on, I think tomorrow, too. [7:22] Paul Carlson: They. [7:22] Speaker F: They did one last week up in Santa Rosa. I mean, just in. In our area. [7:27] Chad: Lauren wanted to know, well, who's supporting jd? It's definitely who does the sales around here? Not me. That guy, It's Chia, had supports me. [7:45] Speaker F: I was taking that in a different way. I was thinking of your support for your aa. [7:51] Justin: Oh, you think Lauren thinks the upside [7:53] Chad: down godfather supports me? [7:55] Justin: I don't know. We'll get into that one. I think it might be vice. I mean, it might be vice versa. [8:01] Paul Carlson: Lauren, it could easily be the other way. [8:05] Justin: Look at those things. Aren't those cool? [8:10] Chad: They should have plexiglass, like, big plexiglass. [8:13] Speaker F: They got them from a local. Like, a local water park or something. [8:18] Chad: Yay. And they're cheersing. That kind of defeats the purpose. [8:22] Speaker F: Yeah, you're definitely within six feet there. Shay, we haven't started yet. I can hear you outside the door. [8:28] Speaker E: All right, I'm gonna start right now. [8:30] Chad: All right, Let her rip. I love that. Welcome, everybody, to another episode of Sheltering in place with the retireholics. [9:05] Paul Carlson: Wait, wait, jd, I'm looking at my camera. Looks like something's wrong. [9:10] Speaker F: No, I think it's all down or something. [9:13] Chad: I think you're fine. [9:14] Speaker F: Perfect. [9:15] Paul Carlson: Is that the way? [9:16] Speaker F: Must just be. It's great on our. [9:19] Paul Carlson: Let me try to rotate my model. Let me rotate my monitor. [9:24] Chad: Okay, dad, you do that [9:29] Justin: there. [9:31] Paul Carlson: All right. [9:32] Chad: Very nice. [9:34] Paul Carlson: Okay, thank you. Go ahead now. [9:36] Speaker F: Okay. [9:36] Justin: We are here with the founder of [9:39] Chad: Plan Design Consultants, a real true OG of 401k. I mean, this guy started a TPA firm in 1975, before 401ks even existed. The giver of life to me and my brother, the creator of all of our jobs, basically, here on screen. Mr. Paul Douglas Carlson. Welcome to the show. [10:08] Paul Carlson: Thank you. [10:08] Chad: Excited to have you. What else do we call him? Chad. What's his moniker? What do you call him? [10:13] Speaker F: Obi Wan. [10:14] Chad: Yes. Obi Wan. [10:16] Speaker F: Obi. [10:16] Chad: Obi Wan. [10:18] Paul Carlson: I'll tell you what I'm expecting after watching last week and all the compliments you were giving Aaron about a chiseled body and all that. I mean, a. Ron, where are you? We won't do that. [10:32] Speaker F: You know, it'd be worse. [10:33] JD: A Aaron. [10:35] Speaker F: A Aaron. That's a new one, and I love it. [10:38] Paul Carlson: Hey, Boomer, that works. [10:40] Speaker F: Oh, Paul, I see you rocking your Ku back there, too. You made sure you got that in for the show. [10:45] Paul Carlson: Oh, you want to see that puppy? I love it. [10:48] JD: You actually look like you're. You're in one of those slasher movies. [10:55] Justin: I agree. [10:56] Speaker F: Don't run into the shed. [10:58] Chad: Don't show us the bodies. So he goes from upside down camera to. Now he's switching camera angles. He's trying to show off everybody. Chad, be careful. [11:09] Paul Carlson: I don't know how to do this crap. [11:11] JD: Yeah. [11:14] Speaker E: Problem is, he's basically blind, and so he doesn't realize that it's all green. [11:20] Justin: Okay, dad, dad, please, please. [11:24] Chad: Go ahead and flex your zoom muscles while I do a little bit of housekeeping. [11:28] Justin: Show everyone your skills. [11:31] Chad: If you attended. Thank you very much for attending. We appreciate you being here live. Make sure you're in gallery view. At least I think that's the best way to look at it so you can see all of us at the same time as opposed to just who is talking? Don't be afraid to chat. We'd love to see your comments, hear what you're drinking, if you're drinking along with us, but make sure that you do it to all of the attendees and not just to the panelists. And Justin will be monitoring that, and we'll be trying to keep an eye on it as well, but Justin will be doing that for you. Word of the episode. The word of the episode. Dad, have you ever watched an episode of Retireaholics? Paul Carlson. I don't know if you've watched one, but we play a game. [12:14] Paul Carlson: What? [12:14] Speaker G: He's been on the show, like, the last four weeks. [12:17] Paul Carlson: What's the word? [12:17] Chad: That's right. That's right. [12:19] Justin: You know the drill, then. [12:20] Paul Carlson: What's the word? [12:21] Justin: The word of the episode will be [12:23] Chad: tpa, but we're also gonna do. [12:26] Paul Carlson: Sorry, did you say tpa? [12:30] Chad: Yes. [12:31] Paul Carlson: Oh, sorry. I screwed up already. [12:34] Justin: And we've got a special one just for you. [12:38] Paul Carlson: It's take your hands off your nose mark. [12:41] Chad: It's wood Texture. Pasting. Dawn. Second word is wood. [12:47] Justin: Okay, hold on. [12:48] Speaker F: Time. [12:48] JD: No, no, no, no. No, time out. Okay, that's context here. Okay, so I'm gonna say the words right now, like, hey, knock on wood, or, hey, would you rather. Is it either one? [13:02] Speaker E: Oh, just the material. [13:04] Chad: The physical material of wood that comes from a tree. [13:07] Speaker G: Let's see how drunk we can get Paul today. Let's do both. [13:13] Chad: We'll see what happens. [13:14] Justin: We'll play it by ear. [13:14] Chad: We'll play it by ear. Blake asked the same question. Would or would. [13:18] Justin: Okay, so now those two words are in play. Show the people what you're drinking. If you've got a nasty special drink for the word of the episode, don't [13:28] JD: have a nasty one. [13:28] Chad: Okay. Dad's drinking Ultra. What a pussy. [13:32] Speaker F: Hey, you can't bring hard alcohol. I'm with you on the Ultra. After spending years in the Missouri sun and it being super hot, Ultra's like very good flavored water, and I love it now. [13:44] Paul Carlson: Hey, man, it's low carb. And, you know, ever since Nancy Pelosi gave me a visual image of Donald Trump at 273lbs coming out of the shower, I just decided I better diet. [13:57] Justin: We're getting political. [14:00] JD: Paul, I'm just curious. Since you. Since you drink Michelob Ultra, have you ever tried a White Claw or a Truly? [14:08] Chad: Keep pushing this agenda. [14:09] Paul Carlson: What? Zoomer, have you ever. [14:13] JD: Or a Truly? I'm gonna keep saying it, so you answer me. [14:17] Paul Carlson: Hey, Boomers get stuck at a certain time in their life, and then from then on, they don't change. [14:23] Justin: The answer is no. [14:25] Paul Carlson: The answer is no. [14:26] JD: You just be direct next time. [14:27] Paul Carlson: I'm. [14:28] JD: I'm just. [14:29] Speaker F: Mark gets confused. Easy. [14:30] Speaker E: Breaking Michelob Ultra for 15 years, [14:37] Paul Carlson: my son could guarantee that because they come here and they open up the refrigerator. The first thing I hear is, oh, no. [14:44] Chad: Ultra. [14:46] Justin: All right, well, my job on the [14:47] Chad: show is warm [14:52] Justin: EPA [14:55] Speaker F: straight out of the kettle. [14:57] Justin: My job in the show is to keep us moving along. [15:00] Chad: So let's go to the first subject. [15:03] Justin: And in all seriousness, I don't want [15:05] Chad: this to be a total kiss dad's butt kind of show or self promotion of pdc, but this first question might seem a bit like that. I have the ultimate respect for you in the sense that being an entrepreneur today is like the cool thing. Like, everyone wants to be an entrepreneur. Everyone wants to run their own gig, have their own company. But. But I'm imagining or I know for a fact that in 1975, after you come from the Midwest and work for is IBM called Big Blue? Do we call it Big Blue? Is that the right moniker? [15:43] Paul Carlson: Stood For I've been moved. [15:45] Chad: Going out on your own to start your own third party. No, that's to start your own. [15:55] Justin: Any form of it. Any form of it. [15:57] Chad: To start your own firm, your own compliance firm is. That was not the norm. That was a bold, rebellious, courageous move. How the hell did you decide you're going to do something like that? [16:11] Paul Carlson: Well, I think you might have heard the old saying that necessity is the motherhood of invention. [16:18] Speaker F: That's an old one. [16:21] Paul Carlson: I left IBM and was with a couple startups. The second startup was rapidly going broke and I was his chief financial officer. My camera keeps focusing and stop that camera. Anyway, and so we had been lost our major client. We had about 50 programmers working for Nationwide Life. [16:49] JD: They were programmers back then. [16:51] Paul Carlson: They were programmers man. They did it the old way, you know, we had these punch cards and stuff that you'd stack up and put into a machine and they'd read them one by one. That's the way computers ran in my day. [17:01] Speaker F: Mark, haven't you seen that movie about sending the spaceship into space? Apollo 13 coders. [17:11] Paul Carlson: So anyway, three or four of us said, you know, we better find some new projects to keep all these people employed because Nationwide is going to return, turn them to us according their contract every moment that they can. And if we not going to lay them off then we got to find some new work. So we divided up legislation that was pending and studied it to see if there'd be any opportunities for programmers real quick. And I was assigned a little one. They became eventually known as the Employee Retirement Income security Act of 1974. And so so anyway, in the fall of 74 I was, I was studying it and running around and talking to CPAs to see what might come out of it. Realized that nobody knew anything about it and that since I'd been studying it for a few months I knew something about it. So I ran around from that point forward like you do the rest of your entrepreneurial life. Acting like I knew what I was talking about and calling on CPAs to set up a firm and start administering plans. [18:25] Chad: So on this little show we like to keep the answers brief and as quick as possible. [18:34] Justin: No, no, I know what I wanted to know from you, you old coot, [18:39] Chad: is were you scared and were people giving you shit? You're venturing out on your own in a time that I think that that [18:46] Speaker F: wasn't the thing industry that didn't exist. [18:50] Paul Carlson: Let's see, what was I scared? I had a mortgage, had no job, had about a three year old boy Four year old boy, right? [19:00] Justin: Yeah. So you have all those things and [19:01] Chad: you decide to embark on your own, you know, entrepreneurial venture. [19:05] Paul Carlson: Yeah, but if you're halfway intelligent, you don't usually put all your eggs in one basket. So I, in fact, signed up for a training allowance with an insurance agency and got a little monthly stipend to help meet my home bills while I studied for my insurance license and passed eight of the 10 CLU courses in two years. Did that on the sideline. So I kind of was 50% business life insurance agent and 50% TP. Didn't finish it. I didn't finish it. And. And then at one point in time, I was studying for my ninth CLU exam and the stack of papers was about this tall to study, and I was studying some new pension rules and regulations, and the stack was this tall to study, and it was about, about 10:30 at night, and my wife was yelling at me about, you know, putting it away. And I finally decided, you know, tomorrow I gotta choose one or the other. And so I took that pension stack and went forward from there on. [20:11] Speaker F: Well, thank you for that. [20:13] Chad: Yeah, we appreciate that you did that. We appreciate you did that. [20:15] Justin: I'm gonna jump real quick. Can you. [20:18] Speaker E: Can you use the camera that you're looking into the same thing? He was looking into a different camera or something. [20:29] Chad: There we go. [20:30] Justin: Hey, I'm gonna go straight to some [20:31] Chad: of the audience stuff because I thought it was kind of cool. Bradley wanted to know, what has JD Done in his career that has made you just shake your head going, what the is this kid up to? [20:48] Paul Carlson: Oh, that is so easy. That is so easy. Do you want me to give you the answer? Really? [20:53] Justin: Yeah. [20:58] Paul Carlson: No, it's. Here's my hair. [21:01] Speaker F: All right, just one, George. Just one answer. [21:05] Paul Carlson: Kind of short, normal hair. Yeah, one answer that would be tough anyway, as he let his hair start growing out, is that it did not seem like the image for our industry, but now I fully understand the concept of being a rebel and getting recognized and standing out from everybody else who's got their same color suit, same color tie, same color hair, or same style of haircut and so do something to be a little bit unique. So. [21:34] Speaker F: But it was the hair is. [21:36] Paul Carlson: Is my answer the long hair? [21:38] Chad: It was. [21:38] Speaker F: I remember the day JD you gave the presentation at the America or Not the American Franklin Templeton campus. And I thought Paul just wasn't feeling well that day. And now I realize it had something to do with the presentation you were about to give, which is don't shave and grow your hair real long. And the whole point was like, just be yourself, be authentic. Get out there, don't be afraid. But now I realized Paul was not feeling well because where you were taking [22:04] Justin: this, Nevin Adams is in the house [22:08] Paul Carlson: and Nevins in the house. [22:11] Chad: A lot of, A lot of East Coasters are complaining about the time zone and that they're having to eat dinner while watching us. [22:17] Justin: I don't want to hear your complaints. [22:19] Paul Carlson: Well, why don't we make this the last one? You should just make this the last one. You know, if they're going to complain, just say, the heck with them, you're done. [22:26] Chad: We got some different plans around that. [22:28] Justin: I'm going to jump to real quick to Julie's and then we're going to play a game. [22:32] Chad: In all seriousness, Julie asked, you know, what was my rookie mistake? And I want you to try to dig deep here because to let everyone know you were my guru, like I did shadow you for a very long time. You know, I was in your office every day watching your emails, watching your phone calls, you know, when I didn't know anything about the business. You taught me everything from A to Z, and that's the truth. Where did I screw up early on? What was my biggest rookie mistake, do you think? [23:07] Paul Carlson: I really can't think of any. But on the other hand, I can't think of anything earlier than 2012 anyway. But no, I. You, you were very good. We came out of a couple of joint meetings with some old codier and, oh, you, you kind of gave me a little critical analysis of my performance and. But I kept you on the payroll anyway. But what about the time? Really, you did really well and stuff. And I think the thing that we did smart was we didn't overlap for too long. You, as you learned the business and got to the point where you were going to be capable of running it, we were smart enough to say that two, Two big egos don't probably get along well and agree on a lot of stuff. Although we agreed for about 10 years or so, but. So. So you told me that I could go ahead and start my new hobby of. I didn't say it. I didn't say that. [24:15] Justin: So that's his kind. [24:16] Chad: That's his kind way of saying, really? [24:20] Paul Carlson: I do not remember a major mistake that he made. [24:24] Chad: Wow, I don't know about that. [24:26] Justin: You remember the time. I remember a time when I chewed [24:30] Chad: gum in a point of sale presentation [24:34] Justin: and the woman told us that we [24:38] Chad: did not get the plan because I was chewing Gum. Like a snotty little, you know. [24:46] Paul Carlson: All right, let me expand on that one. It was actually a little worse than that. We'd had the plan for several years. Oh. And we were. And we were trying to keep it. So J.D. and I went in and try to preserve the plan against the competition. And then afterwards, they told us that if he was going to be the future of the company and if he didn't have enough smarts not to chew gum, and, I mean, we were history. [25:12] Justin: So I think it all went south. [25:14] Chad: I think it all went south when I asked her to pop my bubble, but I don't know. [25:19] Justin: Okay, let's. [25:20] Chad: We're going to tackle a couple different [25:22] Speaker F: subjects, but I want to bring back a good memory. [25:25] Justin: We like to mix it up and [25:28] Chad: have a little bit of fun, so. Oh, we're going to go with. Who is that? [25:31] Justin: All right, we're going to play a little game. It's an audio game. [25:35] Chad: And, dad, you need to see if you can guess the movie. [25:38] Paul Carlson: Nope. Hey, I'm the senior statesman here. We're going to change the game. [25:42] Justin: Oh. [25:44] Paul Carlson: All right, so I'm going to give you the questions. And the reason is because I've watched about five or six episodes, and apparently I've never gone to a movie in my life. And if I have, I haven't ever remembered one in my life. I mean, I can't tell you what I saw on TV last night, so you think I'm gonna be able to pick up. [26:03] Justin: Okay, if you're gonna run the games, you're gonna need to move them along. Okay, I want you to move them along. [26:09] Paul Carlson: Just take me out of it, and your audience will do it. Justin, you are up for me. [26:15] Justin: Oh, okay, Justin. [26:19] JD: And don't look at. [26:20] Speaker F: Don't. [26:20] Justin: Don't look at the chat bar. [26:22] Chad: Don't look at the chat bar. Justin, Guess on your own. [26:25] Justin: All right, play that first. [26:26] Chad: Video or audio. [26:29] Paul Carlson: It's like I picked the wrong week to quit smoking. It's like I picked the wrong week. [26:33] Chad: Quit drinking. [26:36] Paul Carlson: It's like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines. [26:40] Chad: Quit looking at the channel. Close your chat bar. [26:51] Justin: Close it. [26:51] Speaker G: I'm seriously not looking. I mean, this movie sounds about as old as Paul, so I'm not gonna guess it. [26:55] Speaker F: I'm sorry, dude, [26:58] Paul Carlson: I think that was King Kong. [27:00] Justin: No, I wouldn't have known it. But based on all the chat, it's [27:05] Chad: Airplane, which I remember that one, but I wouldn't have got that. [27:08] Justin: All right, let's do the second one. [27:10] Chad: Chad. [27:10] Justin: You're an honest guy. You close down your chat bar. [27:14] Speaker F: My chat's always closed. I just open it up and I see it pop. [27:17] Chad: Let it rip for chat. [27:19] Justin: Wait a minute. [27:20] Chad: What's happening to my special purpose? [27:23] Paul Carlson: What's your special purpose? Well, when I was a kid, my [27:25] Justin: mom told me that was my special purpose. And someday I find out what that special purpose was. Oh, I know the actor. [27:34] Speaker F: I know the actor, too, but I can't. I have no idea what the movie is. [27:39] Chad: Anybody else? [27:40] Paul Carlson: I've got no idea. [27:41] Speaker F: The actor, Steve Martin, right? [27:43] JD: Yes. [27:44] Chad: Yeah. [27:44] Justin: And from. Again, from our attendees, it's the Jerk. Is that right, Bran? [27:48] Chad: The Jerk. Yes, that's right. [27:50] Speaker E: The Jerk. [27:51] Speaker F: Okay, okay, so now we see a pattern. [27:53] Justin: Now he's clearly going old school for sure. [27:58] Chad: All right, so let's have the Millennial try that. [28:01] Speaker E: This is a very short one. [28:05] Paul Carlson: Snakes. Why did it have to be snakes? [28:10] JD: That's Indiana Jo. [28:14] Speaker F: Well done, Mark. [28:16] Justin: Very good. [28:16] Speaker F: Very good on a plane. [28:19] JD: But that's what I was gonna say first. I'm like, no, this can't be it. [28:23] Speaker G: Paul, did you know any of those? [28:25] Paul Carlson: No. [28:26] Speaker F: No, no. At least he was honest. [28:29] Justin: Yeah, yeah, I picked those because those [28:31] Speaker E: were three movies I went and saw with him. [28:34] Speaker F: So. [28:39] Paul Carlson: We're going to do my game now. [28:41] Speaker G: Real quick, Julie' want to know if you're okay with sharing it. [28:45] Chad: What's your actual age? [28:48] Paul Carlson: 78. [28:51] Speaker G: There you go, Julie. [28:55] Speaker F: 78. [28:58] Justin: Just died. All right, go ahead, dad. Dad, go ahead and completely fuck up our entire show and play your little game. [29:06] Paul Carlson: Ready? Name the three spreadsheet programs that came before Excel. [29:13] Justin: Well, let me just play. [29:15] Paul Carlson: Let me just play. [29:18] Speaker F: Yeah, Brandon would have those. Jeez. [29:21] JD: Oh, I got one. I got one. [29:23] Speaker F: Paper. [29:23] Speaker G: Scissors. [29:24] JD: Okay, I got one. [29:26] Paul Carlson: Graph paper. What? [29:29] Speaker F: Graph paper. [29:34] Paul Carlson: You guys all give up? [29:36] Justin: Yeah, I'm trying to Google it. [29:39] Paul Carlson: You can't come up with a single one? I'm gonna say the audience watch. You guys are eating. [29:46] Speaker F: They're typing it in. [29:46] Justin: And looks, says Josh. [29:52] Chad: Love that abacus. [29:54] Paul Carlson: I think the original was VisiCalc. [29:57] Justin: All right, fun question. [29:59] Chad: PCH says Pop is taking over the show. All right, next question. [30:04] Paul Carlson: What portable computer did plan design consultants subsidized for 15 employees in 1981? Portable computer, 1981. [30:14] Justin: Is it. [30:16] Chad: Is it Commodore or. Damn it. What's that thing called? [30:22] Paul Carlson: Brandon, you want to play? [30:25] Chad: Osborne. [30:26] Justin: Osborne. I was gonna say Osborne. [30:28] Chad: And then I thought, no, that's Spider Man. [30:32] Paul Carlson: Atari. [30:32] Justin: PCH says Atari. That's a good one. [30:36] Chad: Pch, Atari. [30:38] Speaker E: By the way, no collusion on this There you go. [30:44] Chad: Yeah, yeah, we see it. Brandon, it's up. [30:47] Paul Carlson: So. Hey, guys. So the Osborne, you know how big a storage it had? It used a single sided, single density floppy disk that was about this size and it held 90kb. You guys need to know what that is? [31:03] Speaker F: Do you have father's son? [31:08] Justin: Brandon was telling us that Lauren wants [31:10] Speaker G: to know if it ran on the Oregon Trail. [31:13] Paul Carlson: No, it ran on cpm. [31:17] Justin: This is my home with your employees. [31:21] Paul Carlson: All right, one last one just for you guys. [31:23] Chad: Okay? This is. [31:25] Paul Carlson: Maybe the audience can get it and then I'll start hijacking the show shelf. [31:29] Justin: I'm out here. [31:32] Paul Carlson: What subject did Revenue Ruling 81202 deal with Roth? [31:42] Speaker F: Am I close? [31:44] Justin: Oh, all right. [31:46] Paul Carlson: I say it's a revenue ruling that came out in 1981. [31:49] Chad: What subject did revenue. [31:51] Paul Carlson: The audience. [31:53] Justin: Come on, come on. [31:54] Chad: Nevin. [31:54] Justin: Chime in. [31:55] Paul Carlson: Where's Nevin? Where's Nevin? I did that one just. [31:57] Speaker F: They can't search fast enough. [31:59] Justin: Anyone? [32:03] Speaker F: Categorization. [32:05] Paul Carlson: All right, you guys. [32:06] Speaker F: HCE definition from Julie Cross testing says [32:10] Chad: Nevin [32:12] Paul Carlson: Cross testing comparability. Wow. I spent many, many nights on Lotus One two, three with a guy named Larry Gilsdorf who ran Trust Consultants. And we would meet every evening, once a week for numerous weeks to write a program to do 81, 202 analysis. [32:32] Justin: How is this simultaneously the worst show we've ever done and the best all at the same time? [32:40] Speaker F: He is so much smarter than you. [32:45] Justin: Mark's taking a nap. [32:48] Paul Carlson: All right, all right. [32:50] Speaker F: Oh, goodness. [32:52] Paul Carlson: Okay, I don't have any more guys, so I. I don't know. [32:58] Justin: That's good. Let's move on. Today I saw some actually, Nevin once [33:02] Chad: again, Nevin providing the. Hang on. I have to read what Dad's putting on crypto. Okay. [33:10] Speaker F: I can pay him Bitcoin. [33:11] Chad: Paul Nevin made. [33:13] Speaker F: Gotcha. [33:14] Chad: Nevin made some posts today that I thought was really interesting. Adp, total source being dragged into a lawsuit and Schlichter being one of the attorneys. And it brings up some interesting points. I sent it along to you guys. I wanted to discuss it with the audience and. Yes, get the old man's thoughts on it. Sure. Personally, I think it was 10 years ago that I would kind of get upset when I would lose plans to adp and the answer from clients and advisors would be. And I know that this isn't relevant necessarily specifically to the lawsuit that came out today, but that the 401k would be free or some heavily reduced fee if you were going to use adp for your payroll and then in this total sourcing you're using them for other benefits as well. Right. And I always felt like at the time like man, this is not okay. Like Fred Reich, the attorneys would not approve of this. It's a conflict of interest. It's not transparent, it can't be legal. But yet it just went on and on and on for years and years. I feel like that that's part of what's going on with Schlichter here is he's, he's attacking ADP Total Source. And I want to get your thoughts. I shouldn't ramble. Guess whose son I am. Just like my old man. But what did you guys think about when you. [34:42] Paul Carlson: I resemble that. I mean I resent that. [34:44] Justin: What'd you guys think about when you [34:45] Chad: read this and how impactful is it? And I'll start with you Chad. [34:49] Speaker F: I mean we've seen other lawsuits come down and Schlichter and his team have been super successful. This seems like you're barking up a tough tree because those fees are so cheap. And if you look at what they're, what they're stating they're going after is they're saying that it was an inappropriate share class. It wasn't the lowest cost share class. Everything is fee based and prohibited transactions based upon them making ill decisions on the share class. And I guess there's a little bit of self dealing. There was some talk of self dealing with that may have some basis and some running room but I don't see fees. If you compare that billion dollar plan to another billion dollar plan, I don't see fees being an issue in that lawsuit. [35:35] Justin: They also, but that's a tough one. [35:36] Chad: Schlichter did bring up the participant data again. So that's another part of it. [35:43] Speaker F: He's going to be tooting that horn for a while. [35:45] Paul Carlson: Right? [35:48] Chad: For one time. And I don't think it's just because it's adp. I kind of like it and get it in a certain way. I've like I've mentioned I've always been pissed off at ADP in the sense that you, you bundle all that stuff together. I think from a person like Jerry Schlichter that's exactly what he doesn't want to see happen. And so of course when he names the lawsuit he's going to go after fees and share classes and put conflict of interest because that's what he has to do. But all those things kind of tie to this black box that's created by Total Source that I know. Really pisses Schlichter off. [36:31] Speaker F: It's the lack of transparency in it. All right. I mean, what they're doing is no different than what the rest of the industry is doing. They're coming out saying, if you buy all these other services, the whole term went away with 482. But we're going to give you the plan for free. With 482. They had to start disclosing what fees they were receiving for the services they're delivering. But the whole free plan kind of went away. But as an industry, as a TPA and I really want to try this, I'm going to say it. We're taking revenue share because of the number of plans writing with a specific provider and using that to drive down costs. They're using shelf space. Record keepers are using shelf space from investment providers to drive down costs. Yes. They're not selling a direct product to drive down their costs, but they're using money they're getting from somewhere else to do it. I don't see that as being dramatically different. [37:24] Chad: Wow. As usual. Or it's becoming a theme. I totally disagree with you. I feel like, first of all, you owe a drink. I think Chad, for the. [37:35] Speaker F: I took it. Oh, no, it's terrible. [37:37] JD: David K was, was asking where the beer's at. I think none of us had taken a sip for a while, so. Reminding him that, yeah, we do drink on the show. [37:44] Chad: I'm just going vodka for both the [37:45] Paul Carlson: day [37:47] JD: I'll be back. You guys are boring. [37:49] Justin: Anyway, I disagree. [37:53] Chad: I think that it's about transparency. And first of all, I don't choose to take revenue share from record keepers. It's. That's built into the industry right now. I'd be more than happy if it was. If it was gone. Secondly, I take that revenue share, I disclose it to an advisor and a plan sponsor to let them know that it's part of my fee and therefore my other fee goes down. So that's bullshit. That's all transparent. It's understood. [38:22] Justin: This is like me saying, hey, if [38:24] Chad: you come and do you know the 401k with me for I will then offer payroll at a lower price. Okay, that would be. And to me that's not okay because that's not the world we live in. And you can't play those games. You need to make individual decisions based on really all. Even the players that are playing the roles. I mean, it wasn't that. Exactly what 408B2 was all about in the first place is making Decisions about each of those entities providing services for fees. [38:57] Speaker F: Do you think the argument, what I read was not an argument of transparency on the total fees, it was the argument of transparency on the fees in which they're actually receiving the potential self dealing because it's their own record keeping platform. I didn't look into the actual share class in terms of whether or not they were the lowest possible cost share class, but I don't. [39:22] Justin: You're saying you're doing the math. I get you. [39:24] Chad: You were doing the math on where they're, they always do it on a per head basis in these lawsuits. Right. And you were doing the math, you were doing the math thinking that it didn't look that far off. So you weren't concerned with the lawsuit? [39:36] Speaker F: I was, no, not, not, not concerned with the lawsuit. I'm not concerned with the fee side of the lawsuit. I feel like there's transparency in the way they're setting it up, the way they're disclosing on total Source. They don't know what ADP is receiving, but they know what ADP is charging. And that's what they're supposed to do. Right? They're supposed to disclose what they're charging the client, what participants are paying. And I think that you can break that down fairly easy in a total source plan. But ADP is having self dealing by like you're saying, discounts on the payroll, free 401k if you have payroll or other benefit support with us. I think that is a bigger issue than the fee, the potential excess fees in these plans, specifically Total Source. [40:21] Speaker G: Paul, some of the audience is curious to see your take on the excessive fee litigation. [40:26] Paul Carlson: There you go. [40:27] Speaker F: Some of the audience is curious to [40:29] Speaker G: see what your take is on the excessive fee litigation. [40:32] Paul Carlson: You know, that's a nice part about retiring. I don't care. No, I've always hated the class action lawsuit stuff. Even though we had several law firms as clients of ours and watched them do a lot of advertisements for, you know, asbestos and stuff like that. But I just, I just, it was a complicated issue and everybody thought that we did next to nothing for our money and didn't deserve what we were getting and didn't understand what we were doing. And it's all just done by punching a couple buttons on a computer, isn't it? How can you charge a fee? I mean, so I said, classical issue that we always face. But then to have a law firm just make a living out of going after that. Now I, I do think a lot of large plans on large A lot of vendors and I don't know how many are on this, tune into this. But you know, we're not, we're not careful to change the share classes and stuff when they should have. In other words, right, they nobody figured, nobody knew any better and so they just go ahead and reap the treasury even though it wasn't maybe merited for what they're currently doing. [41:47] Speaker F: Well, and the truth on that share class game, Paul, is that many of the providers now are saying they have the lowest. Not many, a few are saying they have the lowest net cost share class in the plant. That may not be an institutional fund, it may be an R4 because of the way that the 12 B1s and the sub Tas are built in. That is so damn hard to monitor. Could you imagine being a record keeper with all those investments and monitoring which of the eight share classes an investment company is offering ends up being the lowest net share class and trying to bounce that around in your record keeping system? I mean that's gotta be a nightmare. [42:27] Paul Carlson: Yeah, it is. [42:30] Chad: Nevin brought a good point saying that we can't forget that a lot of these attorneys are looking for a settlement, right? So they want to find the biggest tree to shake the biggest fish to catch and push them towards some type of settlement. I agree, but I also have enough respect for Schlichter. Sorry, I've got a little screen over you, Mark. Are you asking to say something? Yeah, here, I'll get to you. I also agree, I think that Schlichter's a, believe it or not, is a good guy in a sense and I think that as much as he doesn't understand our industry, I think some of his ideas are right on point and he doesn't like to see this kind of black box, you know, control type of shit. [43:09] Justin: But yeah, go ahead Mark. [43:11] JD: Well, no, what I was going to say was you kind of already said some of it. But so not to repeat anything but it's. I've never been to jail, I'm just going to point that out. But if you want to succeed in jail, from the folks that I know, apparently you go and you beat up the biggest person, right? You don't take, you don't take it from anybody. So obviously he's going after the big bully in the prison here. And my thought is in his ultimate end game, right, would be the data that we're talking about, the sharing of data and how that's going to lead to people potentially cross selling and doing all the things that he doesn't want to see the world turn to is don't you have to set precedent somehow some way? And so could this be an attempt to just begin to get to that point of letting people know like we're gonna start coming after these types of arrangements because this needs to change. [44:11] Chad: I totally think that's great. Once again, Mark comes with up with intelligent points for sure. I think that's a long term game plan for him. This participant data one's going to be interesting and so I'm going to watch this one closely. Actually this is one of the lawsuits that has given me the most interest. We did a poll. How do you feel about record keepers using participant data sell services and most people agree they should not. And that's a debate for another day because I could, I'm of two minds with that one. I think that people can benefit from it. Participants can benefit from it in lots of ways, especially as technology and we had in the future. But at the same time, I totally get what Schlichter is all about. Let's, let's, let's mellow it out a little bit. Mark, grab the reins and let's play your game. [45:01] JD: All right, Paul, you ready? This time you have to play. Too bad if you don't want to. [45:05] Paul Carlson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [45:07] JD: You ready? You listening? [45:09] Paul Carlson: Yeah. [45:11] JD: AirPods actually work. [45:14] Paul Carlson: Those are hearing aids. [45:15] JD: That's what I thought. [45:16] Paul Carlson: Yeah. [45:16] JD: Apple. I didn't know Apple made hearing aids. That was my joke from earlier and I totally forgot it. [45:22] Paul Carlson: Anyways, these are Costco. No. [45:24] JD: You've watched the show Kirkland. AirPods. You know the game. Is it. Is it lame or are you game? Right. Yes or no questions. So I'm gonna keep it real simple because I know again, retirement life is probably treating you very well and not much left going on up there. So let's get moving. My first question is. And don't answer yet. Inspirational quotes. Hold on. Okay. In the form of. In an email, like, you know, at the bottom of a signature, maybe in a Link on a LinkedIn post, or even sharing it on social media. So in a nutshell, inspirational quotes. [46:15] Paul Carlson: I gave you two answers. It's lame in the email. [46:17] JD: No, no, you get one answer. [46:19] Justin: Yeah, this is my game or game. [46:21] Paul Carlson: It's lame in the email signature because you see it over and over and over and over and over again. But if it's an occasional post on social media, nothing wrong with that. And I love his. [46:34] JD: What I should clarify is repeat offenders. I don't mind if you wake up, Chad, on a Monday morning and you feel inspired to send some sort of Muhammad Ali quote. Fine. Delete buttons right there. I got it. Like, it's totally fine. But if it's over and over. So I'll go to jd. [46:53] Justin: Well, I was. I'm going to say lame, except for Matt King said, quite quoting Vanilla Ice in the email subject line is the coolest. I agree with Matt, but otherwise I'm over it. [47:04] JD: Yeah, that was an inspirational script. That was just greatness. For lack of better terms. [47:10] Justin: Lame. [47:13] Paul Carlson: I just thought of a new app. You need something that will change the quote in your email signature every time automatically. [47:21] Speaker F: That's what I was thinking, Paul. I'm sure Brandon's writing it right now. [47:24] Justin: Hey, if anyone wants to invest, get in line. [47:27] Paul Carlson: Yeah. [47:27] JD: Hey, by the way, Paul, will you sponsor my robe? Geez, Chad, the answer to that. [47:34] Speaker F: I'm gonna say lame. [47:36] Paul Carlson: Yeah, I said lame on that. [47:38] JD: All right, moving on. Moving on. [47:40] Speaker F: Paul just said lame on sponsoring your robe. [47:42] Paul Carlson: I'm sponsoring the robe basically on your. [47:44] Speaker F: I'm drinking it, though. Small wood shop guy's not going there. [47:48] JD: Yeah, Paul, how many sponsors does your show have? Never mind, dude. [47:56] Speaker E: He has like 10x subscribers than we do on YouTube. [47:59] Speaker F: Oh, man. Yeah, don't pick that up. [48:03] Paul Carlson: I'm not sure how many members I got my Facebook group, but336this morning. [48:09] JD: Right. Brandon, there are some very odd people with fetishes of old guys playing with wood drink. [48:17] Speaker F: That was worth it. [48:19] Paul Carlson: I wouldn't ever say that. [48:21] JD: Face tattoos. [48:25] Chad: Who are you going to again? [48:26] JD: Face tattoos. [48:29] Paul Carlson: That's all I have to say. Lame. Yeah. Okay. Totally lame. [48:34] Speaker F: Your hair back and show us. [48:36] Justin: I'm coming around. I'm coming around on that one. You know, I have to admit, I look at Post Malone, I'm a little jealous once in a while. So I'm going to say I'm for the right situation. [48:48] Chad: I'm game for a face tat. Not myself personally, but in general. [48:53] Paul Carlson: Justin. [48:54] Speaker G: All right, I said lame. [48:56] JD: Chad. [48:57] Speaker F: I'll go. I'm going to say lame. But I like Julie's route. Like people's license plate. Like 401A4 across your forehead. 401K guy across your forehand. Got. [49:08] Justin: That makes it. That makes it. No offense to Julie and no offense to you, but that makes it three times as lame. [49:14] JD: Yeah. Just on the. On the conversation of tattoos, how many tattoos do you have? [49:21] Paul Carlson: 6. [49:23] Chad: Not true. [49:24] Speaker F: Not true. [49:26] Paul Carlson: And then I woke up. [49:28] Justin: There's not a tattoo. [49:30] Chad: As far as I know, there's not a tattoo. One single tattoo between my dad, my [49:34] JD: brother and myself, which is shocking in many ways. [49:39] Paul Carlson: How about my granddaughter, Gabby? Katie? [49:42] JD: Next. Next question. Hey, my game. [49:44] Paul Carlson: Okay. All right. [49:46] JD: Gender reveals. Lame or game. You know what that is? Paul, let me explain to you. So when people. You know, the birds and the beasts, right? When people have children, they. They like to tell people what they're having. A boy or a girl. And now they do it in these ridiculous ways. Some are. Well, they're all dumb. But, like, for instance, you have a ball, right? You underhand pitch it to somebody, and they hit it with a bat. The bat, the ball explodes. Blue or pink, they say you're having [50:17] Paul Carlson: a boy or a girl. [50:19] JD: Gender reveal. [50:23] Paul Carlson: Pretty lame. [50:26] Speaker F: J.D. [50:27] Justin: i'll show you. [50:28] Chad: I'll show you my gender reveal right now. [50:31] Paul Carlson: Wow. Now that claim. [50:35] Justin: Lame. I'm over it. [50:36] Chad: I'm over it. [50:39] JD: Justin. Hell no, Chad. [50:47] Speaker F: Stuck somewhere in between. Somewhere in the middle. [50:51] Speaker G: I don't. [50:54] Paul Carlson: In other words, you've ordered the balloons. It's not time yet. [50:58] Speaker F: I'm gonna say it's game. I want to know if this is true. [51:02] Speaker G: I don't know for sure, but Kevin said, didn't that start the California fires [51:05] Speaker F: a few years ago? [51:06] Speaker G: I'm sure it's probably a joke, but. [51:07] Speaker F: Oh, that would be terrible. [51:10] Chad: What? A gender reveal. [51:12] JD: I don't know what kind of reveal that was, but it was lit. Okay, so here's a hypothetical for you, Paul, because you. And it's perfect because you have your KU flag behind you. KU is known as a basketball school. Am I right? [51:29] Paul Carlson: Yes. [51:31] JD: If you were provided with an opportunity. If I came to you and I said. Or anybody came to you and said, I will give you $25,000 in this duffel bag, cash, right now, and you can walk away, or I have this basketball in my hand, and you can shoot one free throw. And if you make it, you win $250,000. But if you miss it, you walk away with nothing. My question is, do you walk away for doing nothing with 25,000, or do you take the shot and risk it to win 10 times? [52:08] Paul Carlson: I walk away because the last time I went out on a basketball court, I went up for my little jump shot, and that ball got about halfway. I don't know what happened over the years, but it just doesn't Nothing seem to be there anymore. Yeah, I'd walk away my. No doubt. J.D. [52:26] Chad: i wasn't really listening to your question, [52:31] Justin: so I'm gonna go for it. Cause I'm a baller and I got tons of cash, so I'm just Gonna go for it. [52:36] JD: All right, Justin, back to the earlier [52:39] Paul Carlson: question about biggest mistake that JD's made. [52:43] Speaker G: That's right. When I'm about ready to talk. [52:45] Paul Carlson: It takes me a while to process it, but probably hiring Mark and having him come up with lamer. [52:53] Speaker F: Wow. [52:54] Paul Carlson: Go on, go on. [52:58] JD: I don't know if you're aware of this, but I'm actually the only reason the show exists anymore. Okay, Justin, your answer, honestly, I don't [53:07] Speaker G: even know what you said. I was too busy looking up the California. I heard something about 10 times. I'm gonna say, game sounds good. [53:16] Paul Carlson: So much interest in this game. [53:20] Speaker F: I'm shooting for sure. [53:23] JD: We know you're gonna miss, so. [53:25] Justin: Okay. [53:25] JD: All right. You know what they say? [53:27] Chad: Know what they say? [53:29] Speaker F: Paul, if I. [53:30] Paul Carlson: You know what they say. [53:37] Justin: Okay, let's. This is kind of an interesting show. It's an interesting show. I continue to think it's one of the best and one of the worst [53:46] Chad: all at the same time. [53:47] Justin: I've got a final subject. I was online today on LinkedIn. [53:51] Chad: I saw something interesting. I'm not gonna name their name. I should probably read it. But it was a little debate about. I don't have to read it. I remember this little debate about what we had talked about before was Sal about shifting asset based fees or hard dollar fees to asset based fees. And so we kind of got in this comment discussion and the advisor brought up a situation because we would. We were kind of determining that, hey, there's really no good way to defend asset based fees. Like in a. In a real good world, it should be a flat fee that's transparent and understood. And this advisor brought up a situation where, wait, and I want to. I'll explain it to you guys and get your opinion. He was saying, hey, but what if you win asset based fee? And you knew that you had a lot of older people in your plan participants and they were going to leave very soon after you sign. After the ink dried on this contract with record Keeper A and record keeper A said that they were going to commit to that pricing for a long period of time. And he's claiming that they've done this. And so he's saying, I'm going to lock in a lower fee knowing that people are going to leave and they're going to have big account balances. And I wanted to write back and say, so you're trying to game the system and that's okay. And so that's my question for you. Is it okay to be smart and game the system and basically screw the record keeper or screw the vendor to get better pricing for your clients. [55:30] Speaker F: Can I answer that? Yes, I'm going to rephrase that and say, would you screw your partner? Because that's the way we look at those folks. [55:38] Chad: That was going to be my comeback, [55:39] Speaker F: but yeah, but I see that all the time in the micro space where you have a doctor that you know is left and the advisor is smart enough to say, hey, before you take your balance and you roll it over, it's a $2 million plan and you've got 1.4 of it and you've handed it off to your junior, your physician assistants. Before you take your balance, let me take this thing to market, move it and we'll get a 12 month guarantee on that price. I've seen it done, so I know people are doing it. Do I think it's dirty? Yeah, those are your partners. That's their margin. [56:14] Chad: Yes, they're a large company, but that's the debate. [56:17] Justin: Nevin's backing it up with good lawyer [56:19] Chad: speak, which is true. He's saying, hey, best interest of the participants and their beneficiaries got to act in the best interest of the participants. So I get that. That's interesting to consider. [56:28] Speaker F: I think on the flip side too, J, there are plenty of times where a new participant or new doctor comes in and rolls in 1.6 million. They don't immediately drop their costs. In most of those scenarios, most of them don't have a blended or structured pricing where it's going to drop. And someone rolls that in. [56:43] Justin: You nailed my comeback. [56:45] Chad: The reason why I was upset when I read it was I felt like, wait a second, we're all in this together. You said partners. And so I don't feel as though advisor should be looking for ways to game the system and take advantage of their record keeper, even if that's acting in the best interest of the participants. And Nevin will probably tell me I'm wrong here, but, well, what comes first? Integrity and honesty and doing the right thing and treating your partners properly in terms of doing business. To me it's like that's a bit of being dishonest. And I know I'm pushing that. [57:20] Justin: I'm really, I'm going a little far with that. [57:23] Speaker G: But shouldn't it be up to the record keepers? And I get it right from the moral compass, it just doesn't pass that sniff test by any means for any of us. But should it be up to the record keepers to combat against that? [57:33] Chad: Since it is? [57:33] Justin: I mean, yeah, Justin, you Could ask the wholesaler what they think because they're [57:38] Paul Carlson: not gonna give a shit. [57:39] Speaker F: No, they want that thing like say [57:42] Speaker G: hey this is what our pricing's at. If it drops to this, this is what it's gonna increase to. Exploiting a hole in the system. [57:47] Speaker F: And the worst thing is when you come across across someone at that company. Not to name names here but I think we'll all know that this existed. That takes advantage of said hole. We've seen record keepers come out and say hey, if you map all assets to our tds, we're going to have no asset charge in an institutional share class and then you can roll everything out to a Vanguard S&P 500 and you're going to have a five basis point plan with no asset charge. [58:15] Paul Carlson: Which had. [58:16] Speaker F: Yeah, with a record keeper. [58:17] Chad: What you're saying just backed up my lame wholesaler comment. Which is the wholesaler might be the very first one to help you game the system on their own employer to create better pricing for something. [58:29] Justin: And so I'm just being the boy [58:31] Chad: scout here and trying to say like this bullshit shouldn't be done. [58:34] Speaker G: What about those plans that we see that are never repriced and record keepers are taking advantage of that actual plan itself and not repricing for years on end. [58:42] Chad: So you're going to take a rock, you're gonna take a Robin Hood, you're gonna take a Robin Hood philosophy. And that part of it goes both [58:51] Speaker G: ways, does it not? [58:52] Justin: Well so that's like, that's like Ozarks [58:56] Chad: or crime related, you know, integrity there. So if something's going wrong you're gonna steal it back the other way. [59:03] Speaker G: You're arguing for the partners and absolutely I agree with that 100 but at the same time I get it, [59:10] Chad: I get it. What does Mr. Soapbox with a backward hat think? You know what they say? [59:18] JD: You know what they say? [59:23] Speaker F: I will say in terms of the guaranteed pricing, like that's an actuarial risk that those record keepers are choosing to do. If they're going flat, billable or something along those lines or guaranteeing for 12 months, they're marking up a little bit or in hopes of getting some upside in the market and making more than what they deserve based upon the cost structure that would be competitive in the market. So that's a decision on their end. Now you choosing to fluff the numbers is an entirely different story in my opinion. [59:54] Chad: You just made the best answer that I've heard and I'll let the old coot talk, but you just made the best answer I've heard, which is, hey, they created the rules. Their actuaries looked hard at it. If it's got gaps, it's part of the risk they take. Yeah. What's going on, Mr. Carlson? [1:00:12] Paul Carlson: I was just going to say they're big boys. They have their actuaries. It's up to them to sit down and think about all the different scenarios that are going to happen in their pricing and then making appropriate plans for that, you know, and build that into the fee structure. I mean, they're big boys. [1:00:28] Chad: How do you think. Go ahead. [1:00:30] JD: When you was like, when you. And this has happened, and maybe I wasn't paying close enough attention earlier, but where. Three, four years, and now when that hole maybe is exposed a little bit too much, clients are getting letters in the mail with an increase in hard dollar cost or a new asset charge something on there, they'll find it sooner or later, and it's. It's not going to be pretty. So, again, if it works to someone's advantage, maybe they latch onto it and do it. But it's not like it's just going to be the most beneficial the whole time. [1:01:04] Chad: How does a plan sponsor feel about you as a, as a TPA and an advisor coming to them honestly and saying, hey, look, we've gamed the system and we've got you lower pricing. Does that decision maker, that plan sponsor now trust you and like you more, or do they look at you like you're a dirty little bastard? [1:01:28] JD: I think it depends on the person in every scenario. There are some people who like that and respect that and are like, yeah, and there are some people that, jd, I would say you're in the corner of people who would look at that person go, I don't like you at all. Please, please leave my, you know, my office. So [1:01:50] Chad: you have to be careful. All right, dad, we're going to wrap this up. We've got, you know, just about six minutes, assuming we try to keep this thing under an hour. Let me ask you one. [1:02:02] Justin: I don't know if that's on purpose. [1:02:04] Paul Carlson: I'm sorry, that just popped up on my screen. Amazon's confirming my order that I sent to the White House. [1:02:11] Speaker F: Oh, geez. [1:02:13] Paul Carlson: I sent Donald some Lysol just in case he wanted to try that, too. [1:02:17] Justin: Here we go again, getting political. [1:02:20] JD: I thought maybe you sent him a stimulus package. [1:02:25] Justin: I saw today on Fox News that [1:02:29] Chad: Donald is not obese or severely obese or whatever. He's only at a 31 body index, so he's just regularly obese. [1:02:40] Justin: So Nancy was a little out of [1:02:41] Chad: line with her obesity. [1:02:43] Paul Carlson: Comments? He has 63 and 273. [1:02:48] Chad: He's 6 3, bro. Let me ask you about tech to wrap it up because we do want to hear from you and we've in the audience is here to hear from you. [1:02:59] Justin: Do you think your whole career, I [1:03:01] Chad: don't know if people know this about you, but they caught a taste of it earlier. Your whole career, you've been on the forefront. You've been early adopter of technology. As you look back at that, not from a personal standpoint, but from a business running standpoint, did that serve you well to be an early adopter on tech or did it potentially drag a lot of time away from you? Maybe you should have waited till it all sort of like how would if I asked you, how would you assess someone running a business jumping on technology, a good thing or a bad thing? [1:03:34] Paul Carlson: Oh, I think it's the smartest thing you can do because you're going to discover some tools, maybe some won't work, but you're going to discover other tools that will give you an advantage over your competition and also take you down some new paths. And you know, so absolutely technology. I mean here I am retired and what have I learned in the last year? SketchUp, Premiere Pro, you know, Photoshop, Adobe Illustrator. I'm using a thing called ECAMM Live right here. So I'm in zoom but in ECAMM Live with multiple cameras that allows me to do live broadcasting of social media. But so I'm, I'm out there competing right now, JD in the YouTube content creator world and doing things that a lot of the woodworkers oh never thought of doing. And so it's kind of to your advantage. So I just say if it's your aptitude, then do it. I mean if it's not your aptitude, then obviously it's you just learn from people who have gone before you. [1:04:45] Chad: I would think that that would be my takeaway. If you're advisor, if you're compliance one of us, what we do, if you're anyone in that industry looking to technology so fast moving these days. So in your days you were literally going from paper to digital, you know, to there were so many major, major leaps. I think for us it's things just coming at a rapid pace. So people worry that they get distracted. But I think it's important for us to look back at someone like you and remember that you can build the foundation of your business, you can build the foundation of your Efficiency, your internal operations with the right technology. And so it's worth that time, energy, and even the wasted hours of dealing with the ones that don't work to find the ones that do. And I think advisors should be looking for that. And they exist out there with the rpegs and the fi360s and the, you know, all the different tech tools that are available. I think it's important that people allocate time to find the right ones and then stay on top of it. [1:05:55] JD: Well, I'll be honest with plan design. I didn't think you guys knew what technology was. When I walked behind the roundabout there and saw 18,000 brown binders full of paper and stacks of shit everywhere. But luckily that was on its way out as I was coming in. [1:06:17] Justin: Remember those brown binders? [1:06:20] Paul Carlson: I do remember those brown binders. You were talking about fees a minute ago. It took me down a whole memory lane of the way we used to charge fees. You know, in my day in late 1970s, you know, you could. You wouldn't be able to have a meeting like this, retire, even if the technology was there, because we couldn't afford the time because we billed by the hour and we just couldn't afford to not have the billable hours. Clients hated it and we hated it. [1:06:47] Chad: I like that idea. I like that idea, Dad. I think we could end the show with that. [1:06:52] Justin: You've got me, you've got Chad, you [1:06:54] Chad: got Mark, you got Justin. We won't bill for your time, dad, because you're retired, but Bradley, Brandon, David, [1:07:01] Justin: Josh, Julie, Kevin, Lauren, Mark, Michael, everyone, Nevin, everyone who's attended today. [1:07:07] Chad: We'll send you a bill for the time today. [1:07:11] Justin: Mark, what's your hourly rate? [1:07:15] JD: Just a couple of these. [1:07:19] Justin: I'm gonna personally. [1:07:20] Chad: I'm gonna personally charge, I think 1,000 bucks for the hour. So 1,000 bucks for me. What are you at, Chad? [1:07:28] Speaker F: 225. [1:07:29] Justin: 225. Justin, what are you charging? [1:07:33] Speaker G: I'm basically useless, so I'm with Mark. Just a couple beers. [1:07:36] Justin: Okay, so $1,225. A couple Smirnoff Ices and some beers. I'll send the invoices to everybody online here today. [1:07:46] Speaker G: Julie says invoice here. [1:07:47] Justin: So what? [1:07:49] Speaker G: Julie says invoicer a couple say, worth every cent. [1:07:51] Chad: This is nice. We'll send it. [1:07:54] Justin: Okay. Thanks for tuning in. Shoot. [1:07:57] Chad: I was going to do housekeeping. We're gonna. [1:07:59] Justin: There's only hurry up here today. We're not gonna do a show this Thursday. [1:08:05] Chad: It'll go out in email. It'll go out on the Internet. No show this Thursday and we're gonna shift next week to one show per week and it will be Thursdays at 4:30 again you'll get an email blast. I'll pump it out there on social media. The idea behind it for the short list that's still here is we're going to continue the sheltering in place but [1:08:29] Justin: Brian and I are back at the [1:08:31] Chad: lab working on a new, improved, much cooler version than this Zoom thing that we're really excited to bring out to everybody and so stay tuned for that. But until that time we'll be hitting you once a week on Thursdays at 4:30. Thank you for tuning in to another. Yes, Mark, are you saying peace? And Maya, can you send us out of here because don't take your tasting, Don. Alright, see you later. [1:09:02] Justin: Thanks dad. [1:09:03] Paul Carlson: I'm sorry for screwing it all up. [1:09:05] Justin: No, you were great. [1:09:06] Speaker F: You were so much fun. [1:09:07] Paul Carlson: Paul. [1:09:08] Justin: I meant what I said. It was a fun dynamic. It's cool. [1:09:11] Chad: It's all good. [1:09:12] Paul Carlson: I was afraid you were gonna ask me real technical questions which I don't remember anymore. Let's see those abs. [1:09:20] Speaker F: Mark was in 2001.