Participant Engagement Beyond Compliance | Jennifer Rayner

[0:10] JD: Hello everybody, and welcome to the show. It's me and Chad and Justin and the robe. We're gonna talk about plans and such. We're gonna drink a bunch of beer and stuff. It's the Retireholics show. [0:42] Justin: Are we done? [0:44] JD: Improv. I like. [0:46] Mark: I'm learning to embrace silence. I like to embrace silence. Awkward silence is my friend now. I like it. [0:51] Chad: You never know if it's like you're gonna have another bar or something to go into. [0:57] Mark: I just made that up on the spot. But I am embracing for New Kids [1:02] JD: on the Block, I am embracing silence. I used to be very awkward for me on a large like fiduciary review [1:10] Mark: meeting, conference call, and someone would say something like, does anyone have a opinion [1:15] JD: about this or a question? [1:16] Mark: And that the control freak in me felt like if silence kept going for four seconds, five seconds, that even though there was 13 people on the call, it was my responsibility to break the silence and say something and I would get very stressed. And now I'm just embracing it, man. Like I, I'm. [1:37] JD: I'm feeling Zen in the silence. So it's all good. [1:40] Mark: Welcome everyone to another episode of Retire. Alex. Yeah. You know the drill. You know what's going down. You didn't just stumble here on accident. So you know what the fuck's going on. Justin, let's get to it. We got a guest. You're going to intro this guest and [1:55] JD: you all out there in TV land are going to rate Justin on a scale of 0 to 10. Justin, take it away. Damn it. Going off the giz. Silence. I like it. [2:12] Speaker E: He couldn't hold it. [2:13] Justin: I didn't get the response. Yep, I couldn't. Anyways, today's guest joins us from not too far where JD's Lambos are parked. Some say it's the greatest city in the history of mankind. Discovered by the Germans in 1904. They named it San Diego, which of course in German means a whale's vagina. She's an advisor who's been hanging out in our world for the past 25 years, who has a very paternalistic approach. Fun fact, she's the first guest that I can recall who was knocked on death's door. She had a full on near death experience as an almost died on the operating table last year. All doctor inflicted, which led to her epiphany for creating money. Well, she's the principal of the retirement consulting group and founder of moneywell. Ladies and gentlemen, Jennifer Raynor. [3:00] Chad: Wait, is that true? Justin, what almost died last? [3:04] Justin: Don't worry about it. [3:06] Jennifer Rayner: No, I almost died. [3:08] Speaker E: I know. I want more. [3:10] Jennifer Rayner: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So had a little shoulder thing. I'm getting older. And they thought it was like a nerve injury. The doctor sent me to a neurologist to have nerve testing done, which is like a little needle that's got electro electrical shock that goes through it. They stick it through all the different muscles looking for nerves that aren't working. Long story short, the neurologist accidentally punctured my lung. [3:34] Speaker E: Oh, damn. [3:35] Chad: You had one job. [3:39] Mark: Way to go, bro. [3:40] Jennifer Rayner: So I ended up not knowing that she had done that. I got sent home, everything was fine, and all of a sudden I. About an hour and a half later, getting ready for a call, and I felt like somebody was stabbing me in the back. And I thought I was having a heart attack. I call them up. [3:53] Mark: You weren't even there anymore. [3:54] Jennifer Rayner: No, I had gone home. And so I'm like, oh, my God, I'm having a heart attack. Wait a minute. No, this woman just did this to me. It has to have something to do with it. I ring her up and I'm like, hey, so. So I think I'm having a heart attack. By the way, I'm crying and I know it takes a lot to make me cry because I'm thinking I'm dying. Oh, my God. Right? And she's like, yeah, no, the doctor said that's not a normal thing that happens from this procedure. She said, you should go to urgent care and get a chest X ray. And I was like, she thinks I'm having a heart attack, too. So I do. None of my family is home. I drive myself to urgent care, and I sit there and I'm like, I think I might be having a heart attack, but I don't think I'm having a heart attack because they did this stuff. And the doctor said, come get a chest X ray. So I'm here, and it took them a little while to get to me. And once they got to me, they were like, yeah, no, I don't think you're having a heart attack. And we don't do chest X rays until all the other stuff says you're having a heart attack. So they do all of these tests, and finally the doctor comes in, he goes, you know, there's like a million and one to shot that she might have gotten some air someplace where she shouldn't have when she did that procedure. So we're going to do a chest X ray. They did the chest X ray, they came back. You have a collapsed lung. We got to call ems, we're going to take you to the emergency room. They've got to do whatever they got to do. [5:05] JD: They go in and slap some duct tape on that thing and pump it up. [5:09] Jennifer Rayner: They can't do. They can't do that. So basically, the reason it's collapsed is because there's air in the cavity where the lung goes that's not supposed to be there, and it's making. So they have to take the air out. So they do. What you've seen, if you ever watched ER or any of those, and Justin apparently learned about when he was studying to be an emt, is. [5:26] Chad: You're saying so many acronyms right now, [5:28] Mark: but I can't press the button. [5:31] Jennifer Rayner: I'm ready. Let me finish my story, and then I'll drink three. [5:34] Chad: You have three. [5:35] Jennifer Rayner: Three. [5:36] JD: She jet. [5:38] Jennifer Rayner: I'm so nervous to press the button. [5:41] Mark: You're gonna collapse your. You're gonna collapse your. [5:43] Jennifer Rayner: Basically, they basically had to cut a hole in my chest and stick a garden hose in there to suck all the air out. And in that process, they pumped me full of fentanyl and propanol and almost killed me. I literally remember falling through a tunnel going, hey, wait. I'm not ready for this. Come get me. Come save me. Somebody get me. And woke up, and my husband and the nurse were like, wake up. Wake up. Breathe. Breathe. Because fentanyl makes you stop breathing, right? So I would just stop it. [6:11] Mark: I feel fine. [6:11] Jennifer Rayner: I just like. They're like, wake up. And I'm like, okay. So next day, they. They did another X ray. They had gotten all of the air out of there, and they said, okay, we're going to take the chest tube out and you can go home. And I was like, okay, a little bit of ptsd. [6:28] JD: Because I was like, what if I. Yeah, [6:36] Jennifer Rayner: First. [6:39] JD: This is the first guest ever to [6:42] Mark: have four and not plans. Yeah. [6:49] Jennifer Rayner: So let me see if I can get through this. I get home without another acronym, and I get home, and a social worker calls me, and she says, hey, look, you've been through a traumatic experience. We have the social work program we're going to put you through, and one of the things we're going to do is sign you up for this texting program. And I started getting the texts, and I realized, oh, my God, that's it. I am going to text participants their financial wellness. [7:18] JD: Well, how was that transition? [7:21] Speaker E: That's a professional right there. [7:23] Mark: Well, that was a story. All right, everyone, thanks for tuning in to Retireaholics. [7:27] JD: We'll see you next week, [7:31] Mark: okay? We're gonna play some games. You're already getting familiar with one. It's called acro sin. You say an initial is normal. You must drink from your penalty drink, which is tequila today. [7:41] JD: We've got a couple other fun games planned tonight, and I'm getting updates from my doordash account. [7:48] Mark: Cherry Fitz pizzas should be arriving shortly. Portland, if they have not already arrived. Let's go to headlines, shall we? Brandon, let's do some. Well, I'm going to start off with one of the best ones. [8:12] JD: I don't say this a lot about John Sullivan and his little podcast he's got going on, because I think a lot of times he kind of phones it in with his little boring questions [8:22] Mark: that he's written down in front of them himself and just repeats them, but [8:26] JD: he's starting to kind of come out of his cocoon a little bit and open up with some pretty engaging, tough questions. And you know who he had on his show? Webby. Webby was on the show. And I got news for you. Webby was crushing it. And I'm not just saying this because he's a chat bar buddy. He literally is crushing it with charisma, personality, value ideas. [8:53] Mark: Have you. Is anybody listening to this? [8:55] Chad: Does this surprise you? You're acting like you're surprised by this. If I was Webby, I'd be offended, right? [9:02] Jennifer Rayner: I would be upset myself. [9:04] Mark: I. I think you're not the only, like, cool kid on the block. [9:09] Speaker E: All right? [9:10] Chad: Webbie's way above you. [9:12] Justin: Just. [9:12] JD: I think this might be the best Sullivan podcast of all of them. With Webby. No, no joke. [9:19] Chad: Yeah. [9:20] Speaker E: Come on. Mine are solid. [9:22] Mark: And if you're an advisor, I would [9:25] JD: tune into it, because I especially love [9:26] Mark: when Sully tries to hard press Webby on why he's better than his competitors. You know, like, why a client should choose him over someone else. And he really brings it and brings it in an authentic way. And I think when we all as. [9:44] JD: As people in 401k pros, need to be ready to answer that question and answer it confidently, quickly, and authentically. And. And Webby knocked it out of the park. So great job. Great job, everyone. Check it out. [9:57] Mark: And Sully's getting. [9:59] JD: Sully's getting much better. [10:01] Mark: No. Next headline. [10:04] JD: Amazon 401k drama. [10:09] Mark: Let me see if I can pull up this article. [10:13] JD: Come on, J.D. you can do it. [10:17] Mark: It's on market watch. [10:19] JD: And it was written by Alicia. I'm gonna screw up her last name. Everyone's gonna know who I'm talking about. But Alicia Munell. Tell me if I'm getting that wrong or right. Chat bar sounds right. The title is. Oh, there it is, right above her head. You can read that everybody. [10:35] Chad: What does it say, JD what does it say? [10:37] Mark: Let me just read from first paragraph. Oh, wait. [10:41] JD: Sherry Fitz, if you're out there. Is she out there? [10:44] Mark: Eli is approaching with your order from Pizza Hut. The securities and Exchange Commission has to [10:58] JD: allow Amazon.com Inc. S shareholders to vote on a proposal. Oh, okay, okay, okay. [11:08] Mark: To vote on a proposal requiring the [11:10] JD: company to prepare a report assessing the extent to which the company's. Why do they write like this? The company's current retirement plan investment options align with its corporate climate action goals. We're talking socially responsible funds here, people. [11:29] Mark: This proposal is being pushed by a [11:31] JD: non profit shareholder advocacy group, whatever the that is called. [11:35] Mark: As you sow. [11:37] JD: The group wants to replace. [11:38] Mark: And here's where it gets dicey. [11:39] JD: And I want your guys's opinion and thoughts. The group wants to replace Amazon's low [11:45] Mark: fee index funds with environmental social governance funds, which tend to be actively managed and. And involves significantly higher fees than the [11:57] JD: current index funds that they have. Alicia goes on in this article to talk about why this is a big. No, no. Why this a huge problem and why this shouldn't happen. I'm gonna go straight to our guest. Companies trying to align their corporate climate [12:17] Mark: action goals with their 401k investments. [12:20] JD: This doesn't have to mean whether you're [12:22] Mark: pro or not pro social governance, but [12:25] JD: in this social governance, socially responsible funds. But what do you think about this article? [12:32] Jennifer Rayner: Haven't read it, but I believe that fiduciary's first obligation is to the big three, right? Fees, funds and fiduciary. They have to be looking at fees, they have to be looking at the underlying suitability for the plan itself as a whole. If they start taking into account things that. So I'll give an example. I have a tribal plan that I got a call from right when Russia invaded Ukraine. And they were like, yeah, I got people calling me wanting to know if there's any Russian investments in our plan. And I said, well, I'm going to get that information to you, but your job as a fiduciary is not to decide to remove those from the plan. [13:14] Mark: Right. [13:15] Jennifer Rayner: He has the ability or she has the ability to go invest someplace else. If they want to do that, you would have to take on the liability for taking out that fund that has that Russian investment. Do you want to do that? And he was like, no, remember, like [13:31] Mark: the Liquor stores that were like not selling Russian vodka and this and that. [13:35] JD: But when it comes to 401k, things get a little dicier. Chad, we've all heard the, you know, the ESG debate. [13:50] Mark: I think this one just goes a [13:51] JD: little deeper because this is now actually trying to advocate that the sheriffs actually have a policy in place. What do you think about this? [13:58] Speaker E: Well, my immediate thought when you said it and when Jennifer responded, which it was, who are they fiduciaries to? And don't they have an obligation, as you said, to. To. To follow the. What is right and prudent for the participants and the beneficiaries? And if as an organization you feel that socially responsible investing is part of your culture, part of the reason why people are working for you, part of the vision of the business, and is right for them as, as participants, beneficiaries, then I think, yeah, you have an obligation to review it. Should you have an obligation to include them? No, they need to meet the metrics of the investment policy statement. They need to, they need to be right for the plan themselves. Now that first response. Secondly, my immediate thought went to, well, yeah, culturally, if that's what you believe in, then you should have some of those options in your program. Should you replace the indices with it? No, no, that is not my thought. [14:57] JD: How can you say, I mean, how many employees does Amazon have? I'm sure it's tens of thousands, right? How can you say that? That's their culture. Like they're all different people that have different viewpoints on different things. So I just feel like that's a weird comment to make. [15:14] Jennifer Rayner: It sounds like what they've done is they've said, as an organization, Amazon, you've said, these are the things that you're going to do for the environment. Right. So now we want to hold your feet to the fire and have you do it inside the investments. I do not believe that it is the participants. Hey, I want this. If there is, it's a few of them and once you explain to them why they're not there, they're like, okay, [15:36] JD: the author of this article and she's a 401k stud, Alicia. I hope I'm getting her name right. Moon Nell. Look her up on LinkedIn. I mean, she's been involved in lots of big time stuff. She says this, she says this is a terrible idea for many reasons, including the following. It isn't clear that this form of social investing is effective. First of all, basically saying there are a lot of people out there that say hey, you'll actually get better returns if you sort out and sift through companies and find the ones that are running their businesses in this kind of positive way. [16:13] Mark: And she's saying there's very little evidence to support that. She says, moreover, these types of funds, [16:19] JD: these socially responsible funds are in general extreme expensive. [16:23] Mark: On average, they're 80 basis points more than the, the index funds that the [16:27] JD: company's offering right now, which is a suite of like Vanguard stuff. [16:31] Mark: Then she goes on to say, although [16:32] JD: I don't know what this word means, I don't think I could guess. It's even more pernicious. Mark, what does that word mean? Pernicious Social investing allows people to think that they're, they're really solving an important world problem. [16:51] Mark: She puts it. [16:52] Jennifer Rayner: What? [16:53] Mark: When in fact they're not doing anything about that. It's delusional to think that 401k participants can lead the way on fighting climate [17:00] JD: change by not investing in fossil fuel stocks. [17:03] Mark: I love this woman, by the way. She's older and she's going at it. She finishes the article with this and we can move on. [17:10] JD: All of this could have been avoided if the securities and Exchange Commission, she is the acronym. Just stuck to its knitting. I like that. Just stuck to its. [17:21] Jennifer Rayner: I just want to add one last thing. So if you put in a fund that was 80 basis points higher than the index and your participants were participating in that, don't you think one of them one day is going to run up against an attorney that says we need to sue Amazon because that was too expensive for what you were trying to. For the. [17:41] Speaker E: Especially if they're mapped and moved over to it. I think if it's an offer inside the plan, I don't think that lawsuit holds much weight. But if they replace the index based funds with it, then I think you have a big issue there. [17:54] Mark: But can't you tell Schlichter that you're [17:56] JD: doing it to save the environment? Like, won't that save you in court? [17:59] Jennifer Rayner: No. [18:00] Mark: Okay. [18:01] Chad: I must say one thing again. I think it's important to bring in the audience a bit here. I'm just going to point out that Timothy Yee in the chat bar has been throwing out some links and some, some websites and things and. Yeah, Timothy, I stalked you a little bit. I got you. I sent you a LinkedIn connection. Please accept. He represents Green Retirement, focusing on business owners and nonprofits with particular emphasis. Emphasis on this type of investing. [18:37] JD: Maybe hippie. He's a hippie. [18:38] Chad: Maybe somebody who's got a Counter to all the things that we're saying. [18:42] Mark: No, I like Timothy's awesome. And he made another point too. And I want to be clear. I also don't believe that low cost [18:52] JD: index funds are good and actively managed funds are bad. That's a whole nother argument for another day. Although seems to be coming up a lot in these damn lawsuits and stuff, which I'm not comfortable with, but fair enough. And I'm also a fan of the freaking environment, man. I'm down. I'd love to make the environment better. We know this is a weird debate. You know, these things start to venn diagram with each other and people's emotions get all flustered and that's why we're talking about it today. [19:19] Jennifer Rayner: You are quite the diplomat, jd. [19:22] Mark: Did you all know that the national [19:25] JD: association of Plan Advisors has announced the inaugural Advisors Choice Awards? Chad brought this to my attention in [19:35] Mark: an email and they've done it in several areas. [19:40] JD: So they've obviously gone out and pulled you the financial advisor. And they did it in the micro space, the small plan space, the mid market and a large market. I think it freaked Chad out. I'll actually let Chad talk to it because when he looked at the micro market he saw. [20:01] Mark: I'm gonna read off a few leaders. When it came to plan sponsor website, [20:05] JD: the company's advisors liked the most were 401k go. I'm going to drink for this BPA. I don't even [20:17] Mark: empower B when it [20:19] JD: went to advisor support, which you would think would be an important one. Again, 401k go. [20:25] Mark: The other one I just mentioned which I'll drink for Fidelity Transvoia. [20:29] JD: And Chad, you were taken aback, like what the hell's going on here? [20:32] Speaker E: Well, first things first, you just gave two examples. But when you bring it up and I told the guys, I think there were 13 areas that were rated and 401k go. And the group that you named, I don't know if that's an abbreviation or not, but I'm assuming it is. [20:47] Mark: Gotta be benefit planning [20:51] Speaker E: in 11 of the 13 fields. And I asked these guys, I'm like, have you ever worked with either of those two firms? They said no. I said, have you ever ran into competing against them? And they said no. So how are they in every single cat? Who is this poll of? [21:07] Mark: Can I back you up further? And by the way, I called Nevin on this. [21:12] JD: So I got the bat phone, I [21:14] Mark: called him, he explained the survey a little bit. He was great, he was very candid. And I even Pushed him a little further. Chad, because I didn't think that 401k go, the one I mentioned earlier had [21:26] JD: a lot of plans. [21:29] Mark: So I'm like if you're serving thousands [21:31] JD: of advisors and I go to 401k [21:35] Mark: go who I reached out today and they wrote me back and said they're approaching a thousand plans. [21:39] JD: See, I do my homework people. I do my journalism and I'm thinking, okay, you're approaching a thousand plans and you're making nationally like a top five leaderboard on this stuff. Like you're, you're, you're a drop in the bucket. How are you getting all those votes next? [21:53] Mark: Chad, I do let you know wasn't [21:55] JD: that 401k go was first and the other one was second. It was alphabetical. Nevin let me know so that because [22:02] Justin: they're a new they're still there in every category. [22:05] Speaker E: They're still showing what is supposed to be the top five and those two groups are in the top five. [22:10] Jennifer Rayner: Have you. [22:10] Speaker E: It's not possible unless you're pulling people only from Utah which is where 401k go is. [22:16] Justin: Did Nevin to get back to you and say. Because didn't he say he was going to look into it and see. [22:20] Mark: He said, he said you're, you're kind [22:22] JD: of making me want to go look back into the numbers. But he didn't say he was going to do it. He's got a lot of other to do. [22:28] Mark: I think when you look the mid [22:30] JD: market and the large market ones, if you've had a chance they kind of make a lot more sense because it's the typical names and. [22:36] Mark: Chad, can I. Are we being. We're. I'm going to get some negative emails tomorrow. Are we simply picking on those two companies? If you saw the rest of them you wouldn't, you wouldn't have cared. Right? [22:47] Speaker E: I mean I would have been surprised since this was set up as micro market. Less than a million that Fidelity was listed there. [22:54] Jennifer Rayner: Fair enough. [22:55] Mark: Fair enough. [22:56] Speaker E: Like that is super odd to me. [22:58] Mark: Yeah. [22:59] Speaker E: But no, when you see some of the other names that's, that's who I would have expected to see in that space Robe guy. [23:06] Mark: Are you a fan of. I mean we used to love the plan sponsor magazine rankings. Are you a fan of the national association of Plan Advisors bringing a new one to the fold that we can [23:19] JD: look at each year? [23:22] Chad: I don't really care. [23:26] Speaker E: Let me make a comment on that question. My answer would be yes. My issue with plan sponsor magazines ranking in the past is that if I'm right, it was of plan sponsors who have familiarity with only maybe one or two providers. Whereas asking the advisors who often have plans with 5, 10, 12 different providers depending on how big their book is, they have much more visibility of who's doing what. [23:51] Chad: Well, so sorry. Go on, Chad. [23:55] Speaker E: I'm done, Mark. [23:56] Mark: Okay. [23:56] Chad: I'm gonna say I, I would chime [23:59] Jennifer Rayner: in, but I'm gonna get in trouble, so. [24:00] Chad: No, you know, you won't. I'll be, you know, you know what, Jennifer, you. [24:03] Speaker E: No, Jennifer, we're here for you. [24:05] Mark: And Jennifer, even Katie Boyer goes, you [24:07] JD: guys do have a guest. Katie, if you were here at the beginning, Jennifer talked for like 15 minutes. So it's all good. [24:14] Chad: Yeah. And we're still on headlines. Katie. Don't worry. Don't worry. [24:19] Jennifer Rayner: So I met the guys or guys. They were only guys at a 401k go at the Broadridge FI360 conference. I am an advisor who deals in the micro plan space. I have opportunities in that area sometimes. So I asked what they, what they did and I didn't get a warm and fuzzy like feel, you know what I mean? So my only experience, my only knowledge of them was that now I don't, I don't have a huge business. I don't do a lot of business every year. I had never heard of them until this conference. And so therefore I wanted to know more and didn't get again the warm and fuzzy. I'm a very. In your face, ask the questions. And the questions that came, the answers that came back were very defensive. [25:08] JD: So I think they're, I've. [25:10] Mark: When, when 401 Jake was there. [25:12] Speaker E: Yeah, that's, that's my only familiarity with. [25:14] Mark: Yeah, I grilled him pretty hard. [25:17] JD: That was a couple years ago. I think Chad was with me maybe at the time and I grilled him [25:21] Mark: pretty hard because it didn't add up [25:22] JD: to me like what they were charging and what they're trying to do. However, kudos to them. Everyone has a right to kind of build a business and work hard. And I almost start to see them in the same light as some of those other disruptors. Only because when I say like guideline and, and frickin human interest and those people, because if you see what they're trying to do, they're, they're definitely trying to pitch this. Like you can sign up in 15 minutes online. It's only $9, $12. [25:52] Jennifer Rayner: I think, I think for, for small, small, small plans where there isn't a lot of money coming in revenue wise and they just want to give something to their participants. There's a place for that sort of structure. But again, I think there needs to be a lot more offering at that level instead of just wham, bam, thank you ma', am, you got a plan and ain't it great and your participants will be fine. We're not going to protect the participants that are. I shouldn't say that. I'm not saying they're not protecting participants that are in their plans, but I just didn't get the sense that there was a lot of thought to that. Like how are you going to make sure that even though that plan only has five people in it, those five people are living human beings that need to have the same sort of experience that someone in a large plan does. That's been my biggest problem with getting in front of plans and being like, I can't help you because what I do and the way I see it, it's really hard to find that in the micro plan space. [26:46] JD: I think that's well put. I, we, we're not going to have this discussion today. We got other stuff to talk about. But I do think a lot of these, like disruptor companies that are trying to go after this micro market and trying to do it in this kind of low touch, low fee thing. I've said this ad nauseam on the show. They're in for a shocker and they're starting to feel the shocks. I know this for a fact by the way people, because I've talked with people there where they're not, they didn't understand the amount of questions and counsel and, and service and support that even these small mom and pop companies need. And because I think everyone listening in and I know everyone here at the bar here tonight understands that these things are not simple and they're not easy and little things come up. [27:38] Speaker E: No matter the small groups that make the mistakes, that don't have a trained human resources person and benefits, those are the groups that make. [27:46] Jennifer Rayner: They're in for a mess if they, if they get provisions in their plan that they can't implement or one person changes and there wasn't some piece of information. I've had that experience with a client and, and it is not fun when you don't realize it until a year later. [27:59] Mark: And you're like, every time I see the, every time I see the. [28:02] JD: You can sign up in 15 minutes. And what they're really saying is we can walk you through your provisions real quick. Quick, right, like you want three months, six months 12 months. Like, we'll do this in 10 minutes or less. I just think. Chad, Mark, Justin, can you imagine if we task Lance, our conversion guy, to, [28:20] Mark: like, do these things in 10 minutes or less. JD areas. [28:24] Speaker E: Hey, you're being naive. If you think someone calls, they send you a checklist, dude. Three months, six months, nine months. [28:31] Justin: Or you just do it online. [28:32] Speaker E: Check it. Yeah, yeah. [28:33] Chad: You're doing exactly. Hey, hey, everyone. [28:35] Mark: We're. [28:35] Chad: We're going down a different path than what this. This headline was entailed for, I believe. [28:40] JD: And I. [28:41] Chad: Going back to the initial question, jd, you caught me off guard because my kids just got home and it was very noisy, and I was trying to figure that out, but my comment back to you is this. Do we need another award? No. The answer is just no. Okay? There's too much of it. It becomes. [28:58] Mark: It's. It's to. [28:58] Chad: The waters are muddied with just too many people with things in their signature that say, I won this vote for me for this. All of these things. I know. We don't need it. [29:10] JD: JD and Sylvia vehemently disagree with you. Yeah, I love hearing from advisors telling me what record keepers they like and for what reasons. That's valuable information to me. [29:27] Jennifer Rayner: It has to be accurate. [29:28] Chad: So you're saying that this information that you just got is valuable for. [29:32] Jennifer Rayner: Accurate. [29:33] Chad: Yeah. Okay. Okay. [29:35] Jennifer Rayner: Looks like maybe from your advisor. Guest. [29:38] Chad: Yeah. Why don't we just. Jd, why don't we just pull the people that come to our show or network with us? Because that's what we really care about. [29:46] JD: Okay, Fair enough. [29:48] Chad: Let us know a freaking award then too. [29:51] Mark: Let us know. Let us know in the chat or if you're down with 401k go. Or BPA. I'll drink for that. Okay, let's do another headline. Last one, if it's okay with you, Mark. [30:05] Chad: Have you all Stay here. [30:07] Mark: Have you all heard of the. I'm gonna go. Justin, you're a. You're into the media, The TV shows, the things. There's a new show, Television Gets me. [30:20] Speaker E: Television. [30:21] Jennifer Rayner: Television is an acronym. [30:23] Mark: Yeah, yeah. [30:23] Justin: Yes, ma'. Am. [30:24] Chad: Any Anything is an acronym. [30:26] Justin: Wait, if it's an acronym. [30:27] Chad: Jennifer. [30:28] Mark: New show on Netflix, Justin, titled Our Father. Are you aware of it? [30:37] Chad: Sounds creepy. [30:38] Justin: Sounds creepy. No, I have no clue. What's it about? [30:41] Mark: Well. [30:42] Speaker E: Oh, I have seen this, apparently. [30:44] Mark: I just want to bring this everyone's attention. It's got nothing to do with 401k. [30:47] Jennifer Rayner: I was about to say this has nothing to do with when I heard [30:50] Mark: of my jaw dropped my Jaw dropped. There's apparently, like a. The. You know, the doctor that helps you get pregnant and stuff, right? Like, brings the husband and wife together. Fertility. Yeah. And apparently he's been putting his own semen in women's eggs for a long time, to the count of, like, what [31:12] Justin: do you think that is in child support. [31:13] Chad: Wasn't there already a movie about this that was more like, hypothetical? Not really, no. [31:18] Jennifer Rayner: It was a different doctoral. [31:23] Chad: It came from somebody doing it. [31:24] Speaker E: Yeah. [31:25] Mark: This article says that at least 50 children are now realizing, dad's not my dad, Mom's my mom, but this Dr. God is my dad. [31:37] JD: Okay, so maybe, I mean, holy. [31:40] Jennifer Rayner: Maybe, just maybe, he was having troubles finding donors, so he had to do something. [31:45] Justin: No, the male race. There's no way. [31:47] Mark: Jason's right. He's got to be pernicious. [31:50] Justin: Dude. That's the second time he's dropped that for sure. [31:54] Mark: Jason might be in, you know, doing [31:56] JD: good for the chat bar champion right now. I'm claiming. [31:59] Mark: Anyways. I don't know what to say about this, except for I'm ashamed, but I will be. [32:05] Chad: Here's what I have to say. I hope he saved a lot of money into his 401k because he's gonna have to pay these kids a lot of money. [32:13] JD: What is the charge? [32:14] Jennifer Rayner: Child support. [32:15] Mark: Like, what. [32:16] JD: What will happen? [32:17] Mark: Like, what will he. [32:19] JD: Has he been charged? Will he. [32:20] Speaker E: Misinformation of some sort. [32:22] Justin: I mean, so was it. I remember seeing the previous, but I don't remember details. Was it, hey, husband and wife are coming to. You know, husband's gonna give sperm or they just couldn't conceive and there was a sperm donor, probably. [32:33] Chad: No, no, I believe. [32:35] Jennifer Rayner: I don't think it matters. [32:37] JD: I believe the actual husband was there with sperm. [32:40] Chad: Anyone expected this? Justin? [32:42] Mark: Yeah, Nobody did anyways. [32:44] Chad: And look at that guy. Is that really him? [32:47] Mark: Yeah, that's him, I think. [32:49] Chad: I'm not surprised. [32:51] Jennifer Rayner: They have, like, a picture of him where they caught him as he came out the front, do the, you know, gotcha cam, and he's in, like, his boxer shorts, [33:00] Mark: and it's all in, like, Indiana. So now you have all these people running around that never knew they were brothers and sisters. [33:06] JD: So kind of fun. [33:07] Chad: I mean, oh, man, let's move on. [33:10] Mark: I don't know why I brought that up. [33:12] Jennifer Rayner: I don't either. [33:13] Mark: Okay, Mark, you'll be happy to know [33:16] JD: we're moving on from headlines. [33:17] Speaker E: Wow. [33:18] Chad: Only 35 minutes in less. [33:21] Mark: You know, I'm going to save the other topic for a little later. I'm going to jump right into a little self promotion for our guest here. I don't do this often, but Moneywell, [33:35] JD: go ahead, like, tell us what's going on with MoneyWell. And by the way, kudos to the. The look, the design, the aesthetic of the website and the little cartoon people I really, really like looks very pro. It looks very established, very cool. So anyways, what the is money Love. [33:58] Mark: All right, fine. Hang on, hang on, Jennifer, hang on. Oh, it's not gonna be you. [34:04] Chad: You got picked in the pre show. J.D. yeah, shocker. [34:08] Jennifer Rayner: Nice. [34:13] Justin: Give him a froze. [34:18] Jennifer Rayner: What is frozen? [34:19] Mark: He's got to throw, he's got to throw Maker's Mark into his Smirnoff and pound it. Okay. Money. Well, what is that? [34:26] Jennifer Rayner: So basically, I fundamentally believe after years of being a financial advisor, sitting down with participants, by the way, that's my favorite part, is sitting down with individual participants and plans, realizing that that's my [34:39] Mark: least favorite part, by the way. [34:40] Jennifer Rayner: No, most, most advisors, it is. I get that. But that's the part that, that I'm passionate about. And when I would do that, if I built a plan, the consider correctly, completely done for them, meaning they're put in a managed solution, everything's done for them. They're automatically enrolled, they're automatically increased, everything. Right? So they're auto everything. Then when I go to sit down with them, they're like, well, why am I here talking to you? You know, what do I, you know, everything's great, except, hey, is it okay that I still live with my parents or I think I might be getting divorced because of all this debt I have? It literally was like, people would come to me, like, somehow I came off as like a social worker or teacher or a, you know, like, that's the vibe I was given off. And all I could think was, yeah, so your number one, your employer didn't hire me to do this. Right. I'm not a therapist. I don't understand this. I will listen to you and I'm happy to be supportive, but I've got no resource available to me to address that. Right. And that's really, I believe what people are struggling with, the here and now, what they're experiencing. So I fundamentally realized that people just want to feel better. Right. And I believe that if people can feel better about the current situation they're in, the challenges they're facing, the situations they're in, they will intrinsically be motivated to seek out that which the financial wellness world is full of. Right? Financial. [36:02] Speaker E: You're living in a van down by the river. [36:06] Jennifer Rayner: So if they are intrinsically motivated, they're going to do better. They're going to take small little steps because now they feel better. It's like a cycle, right? Instead of this linear thinking that we do in the financial industry, which is very black and white, very linear, you gotta do these things. And when you do these things, you will be financially well, right. [36:24] JD: It's funny when I, when I hear you say that and you talk about auto enroll and auto increase and default, the reality is, the negative of that is we are asking them to not play a role. Like we're, we have decided, like, okay, we'll make all these decisions for you [36:41] Mark: and you will not have any say in what goes down. And I think what you're starting to [36:47] JD: realize here is that, well, if they're not involved and they don't care and they're not inspired when it comes to their financial situation, maybe there's some bigger problems that we won't solve by auto enrolling them at 3% with 1% increases. [37:04] Jennifer Rayner: Right. We're not going to spend solve that problem and we're going to leave them hanging and looking for something. Right. Again, I feel like people are overwhelmed. They're completely overwhelmed with more information. And that's what financial literacy, or most financial wellness programs is. It's financial information. We're pelting them with more information when they're completely overwhelmed. So they're never going to engage. Right. And I know this because if you ask people, there's not a lot of studies about it, but if you ask people in the industry, they will all nod yes when you say nobody uses it. Right? Nobody's using it. It's the dirty little secret. You put it on a, you're talking [37:43] Mark: about like the wellness tools and stuff [37:45] Jennifer Rayner: because they're driven by making somebody. I call it the learn more, do more solution. Right? You need to learn something and then you need to do something. But most people aren't ready. So this is a fun fact. Did you know that only about 20% of people at any given moment are ready to make a change in a negative behavior? When I heard that, I was like, well, then what? We're ignoring the other 80% because the only people that are accessing and looking at financial literacy and have decided they're going to make a change and do something is that 20%. It's actually less than 20%, but we're only capturing that small little percentage of people. What about the other 80%? [38:26] JD: Doesn't surprise me at all. [38:29] Mark: That's my favorite. [38:30] JD: I don't know why I like turtles. It doesn't surprise me because let me make the comparison to, like, weight loss and stuff or being fit, you know, Like, I think a lot of people would like to eat better, work out more, take better care of themselves for a variety of reasons. And they all know that in the back of their head. But yet we fall victim to some of our same habits. [38:55] Mark: Chad, are you familiar with like, the. And I don't want to call it a weight loss thing. I don't like that term. But the app Noom. [39:06] Speaker E: No. [39:06] Mark: Anybody? [39:07] Speaker E: Anybody? [39:08] JD: Jennifer? [39:09] Mark: Justin? Yeah, Tell me about Noom. What you understand of it. [39:14] Justin: Well, isn't it just. It's the program that you opt into that kind of evaluates your habits and what you're doing on a daily basis and telling you, hey, make these tweaks here and there to achieve X, you know, whatever your goals are. I think I've heard that you can. You know, it's not like a full diet thing, but it slowly, incrementally makes you change some shit that you do right, to be better. [39:35] JD: Yeah. No, Tony, we are not off track. This is like a perfect example. And we'll let Jennifer back it up here. But. So typically, if I wanted to lose weight, I'd sign up for nutrisystem or something and they'd say. Or some, you know, personal trainer say, hey, look, you need to work out and burn these calories and you need to eat less and then you'll lose weight. But the reality is that there's deeper emotional issues with how I feel about food or why I go the refrigerator at 11 at night to have a pint of ice cream or how I feel about working out. What's going on, Mark? [40:17] Jennifer Rayner: You've lost him. Okay, I'm going to. [40:19] Mark: Oh, no, no, no, no, no. [40:20] Chad: I get all of it. I love the thought and the. The idea that we've studied this shit and that we believe that we can now understand those things. It's very freaking simple if we get down to the elementary part of what you're talking about. J.D. just don't eat at midnight. Stop eating candy and ice cream and move your. [40:41] Mark: Go for a walk. [40:42] Chad: It's not rocket science. [40:46] Jennifer Rayner: You just made my. You just made the point. Okay, so here's the thing. [40:50] Mark: Perfect. [40:50] Jennifer Rayner: Of it in terms of. Think of it in terms of weight loss. Let's think of it that way. [40:56] Chad: That's what we're doing. Yeah, weight loss. [40:58] Jennifer Rayner: But now we're going to put it back into financial terms. Everybody knows, or it's pretty easy to find out that if you save 15% from the time you start working till the time you retire, you're going to be perfectly fine. But yet nobody does it. Why? It's just as simple as that. There's something that happens. [41:15] Chad: Will have to live people. The cost of living is high. [41:19] Justin: Everybody, but not everybody. [41:21] Jennifer Rayner: Everybody is in a situation that is specific to them. And they may. I don't want to go down the money scripts or money story road, but there's this theory that people have their own money story, right? They have this thing that happened when they were little, the way they thought about money. Ooh, this is a great time to ask. So when you first think about your money life as a child, what's the first thing you think about? What's the first thing you remember when you think money as a child? [41:45] Justin: Buy candy. [41:46] JD: Allowances. [41:47] Speaker E: Allowance, Right. Buying lunch. [41:51] Jennifer Rayner: So everybody has this experience they had in their family. Some got allowances, some had no money. Some had. It was. Everybody has different experiences. And that bleeds into where they are now. I didn't want to go down that road because I feel like everybody has an experience, but that doesn't mean that it's going to affect who they are as an adult. Right. I had some terrible many experiences as a child, but I have managed to overcome them. Some people don't. Some people do. So I don't like the idea of saying, well, it's all about what happened to you when you were little. Right? That was one train of thought. But the other train of thought is maybe if we focus on people's financial self efficacy, building people up. You got this right? And that's what Noom does. They focus on the psychology of money. This. First they start, because I signed up just to see what they were up to. And first they start with, hey, there's this thing called self efficacy. If you don't believe in your ability to succeed, you're never going to. Right. That's a concept that some of us are born with. Some of us were taught. [42:50] JD: Some people don't have that, like, teach it. [42:54] Speaker E: I think more and more people lack that now than they did 10 years ago. JD I think it is a trend that is leaving society. [43:02] Mark: And I don't think you're being very sympathetic. Mark, or even Samson and the chapter there, if you. [43:09] JD: Hang on, let me finish my thought. [43:11] Mark: I don't think you're being very sympathetic. [43:13] JD: If you think, like I was gonna [43:14] Chad: say, you're wrong about that, but go on. [43:16] Mark: Okay. That it's easy and it's simple. And you just. [43:20] JD: People have mental blocks that get in [43:23] Mark: their way with things. And so here's my point with finance, and we'll move from the weight loss [43:28] JD: to finance, is that a lot of [43:31] Mark: people won't walk over and talk to [43:33] JD: the plan advisor in the room at [43:35] Mark: the education meeting because they're embarrassed that some. That that person's going to ask them about their credit score, about their savings, about their budgeting, about, you know, those [43:46] JD: types of things, and therefore they feel horrible about their own finances. How are those people ever going to start heading in the right direction until they deal with those emotions? I don't think that's foofy, weird hippie stuff. I think that's legit. [44:06] Jennifer Rayner: Thank you. I agree. I. So it was years of sitting down with employees, realizing I could tell them everything they needed to do. I could give them whatever information they needed, but they were blocking out the information and just wanted me to listen to them. I give this analogy of my kids. So I have teenage. Okay, well, they're 18 and 20 now. It's the example of when you're a parent and you stand in front of your kids and you realize they're in a situation and you have the answer. You have spent years and you have all the knowledge possible that you can give them that are going to make them make the right choice, and you stand up there and start talking to them, and you're like the Charlie Brown teacher. Wa, wa, wa, wa, wa. They can't hear anything you're saying. So your job as a parent is to be supportive and listen to what they're saying and then give resources when they're ready. I found that most of my experiences, they just find this the shit on YouTube. So I look at it as if you give them that support, you give them the support, you listen, then they're more likely to be intrinsically motivated to then go out and find all that stuff that actually exists on lots of other places. [45:16] Mark: Chad, you are becoming more in touch with your emotions and feelings. Every year that I know you mark so much, I'm finding out he's a lot like my son. So let me ask you, like, do you think the answer is to educate participants with Voya's number? They're the one that came out and said, you need to have a number, and that number's got to be $1.7 million that you carry around in these. These big, fancy numbers on your shoulder or, hey, hey, guess what? [45:51] JD: You haven't saved enough. [45:52] Mark: Therefore, you really need to up your percentage from this to this because you're fucking up and we're going to auto enroll you this way. [45:58] JD: There's a of lot, lot of kind [45:59] Mark: of you're not doing it right motivation [46:03] JD: like a lot of cracking of the whip. [46:05] Mark: And so just asking you might it [46:07] JD: be more intelligent, more strategic to try another path that is more dare I [46:15] Justin: say, like real quick before Chad responds to you, what do you think that okay, so they, they tell you hey you should have 1.7 million, you know, to retire. What do you think that does to them mentally though? I don't want to deal with it. [46:27] Speaker E: Crushes, put it away. Well yeah, because they don't think they can get there. It seems so large. I think that was JD's point and that's in part why that hasn't worked. That's why we've moved from giving an end number to giving an annual income number to giving a monthly income number because people couldn't even comprehend the annual income number. What I think you were really getting at jd, and this is where I think I heard Justin articulate NOOM is we need small incremental ways that we can make differences that don't feel daunting to us. And just doing the things that we've been doing, we've proven have not been successful, they've made a dent. It's helped. State run plans are helping, auto features are helping. But I don't think it gives to your point on your site, Jennifer. I don't think it gives much comfort. I don't think people are feeling good about it just because they're auto enrolled or auto savings. And so I do think that we need to be more and I don't know how you scale this, clearly you're trying to figure that out. But I think we need to be more in tune with the individuals we're trying to help. [47:34] Mark: Tony's saying in the chat bar he [47:36] JD: goes instead of all this bullshit, he's on your camp. [47:40] Mark: Mark, are there any stats on something that actually working? Because we, we know what doesn't work. [47:45] JD: Well this is why I tried to [47:46] Mark: bring up news and I know that's an on the. [47:48] Chad: Hold on, before we go on, can I just say to clarify a little bit of context here. Okay. I'm not against anything that you guys are talking about. None of it. I think it's great. But I to your specific point and using NOOM as the example is that is not universally available to everybody. That is a cost for a service that some people cannot Afford that is a fucking luxury. Okay. Excuse my language. So I don't appreciate that. All right. Even as. [48:21] Jennifer Rayner: What if your employer offered it? [48:23] Mark: Yeah. [48:24] Jennifer Rayner: What if it was part of what your employer offered you? As in a benefit. [48:28] JD: Great. [48:29] Chad: But. Okay, okay, fine. But right. One employer can offer it and then I get a job offer somewhere else and I lose out on that. Is it. Is it portable? Of course it's not. [48:40] Mark: Not. [48:40] Chad: Right. [48:41] Justin: So by that time, if you took advantage of it, you kind of changed your behaviors. [48:46] Chad: By the way, anything our employers provide, I think some of us, some of us sort of take it for granted. For granted. And we don't use it. And it comes and goes. As soon as you go something that. [48:59] Justin: Go ahead, Jennifer, you know, I talked about when we were in Austin that she said that was just like kind of a revelation for me. She said, hey look, we have all this tech that you know can lead. You said, what is a mouse to cheese? Is what I think you said. Right. Can lead a mouse to cheese. And they have all these tech where the employees can or participants can go in and take advantage of these tools to help themselves. But we never stopped to ask how do we make them hungry? [49:22] Jennifer Rayner: So the exact thing I said really hit home if there's. [49:25] Chad: Everybody's trying to go back to the hungry thing. Come on, people. We're talking about people losing weight. Jesus Christ. [49:31] Jennifer Rayner: They're trying to make the mouse hungry. I want. I mean they're trying to make a better mousetrap of financial wellness. And I want to make the mouse hungry. How do we get. [49:40] Chad: Now we're trapping people. [49:42] Jennifer Rayner: That's. An analogy. I agree completely. Is that there has to be a way that leads me to. I started a nonprofit that actually to underserved youth is working on building a financial self efficacy program that is built around a financial literacy that already exists. Because I agree that's actually where I started was how can I give this away? How can I give it away? And then I realized that means I have to go out and sell for fundraising and I don't like selling. So how about I go make it for profit and when the for profit makes some money, I'll just fund the nonprofit. That's how I actually got to a for profit version. It wasn't starting there. It was believing I wanted to give this idea away. But that's easier said than done. [50:27] JD: I. And I think the whole reason that you're here is because you and I talked about this at the bar and I just met you and I. I feel like there's something here. I feel like that there's an option that not a lot of people are exploring and to Tony's point of where are the stats? And sorry Mark, to bring up the Noom, but I think NOOM has plenty of stats backing how this, this kind of psychological approach can pay big dividends. And I think the analogy to finance is a straight line. [51:02] Mark: Like it's a perfect one. [51:04] JD: Like people have the same hang ups [51:06] Mark: about finance as they have with fitness [51:09] JD: and nutrition and those things. [51:10] Mark: And we all as an industry agree that if we could teach kids financial literacy, if we could teach kids teenagers financial literacy, if, if everyone could be more in on this concept, that our [51:22] JD: job would get a lot easier in counseling them and helping them to reach their goals. And so why not consider an alternative approach like this? It seems interesting to me. [51:34] Jennifer Rayner: There was actually a study done by the way that it just came out that they did a. I'm not very good at stats, but they did a study of like 5,000 Danish people and they basically found that when there was an increased sense that somebody could have better wellbeing or mental health, they actually ended up achieving it versus the ones who didn't believe it. So even if we just stopped at financial self efficacy, believing in your ability and said let's just try that, that is a good starting place. I believe there's finding out how to [52:10] Speaker E: change that is the hard part. That's where we were talking about the baby steps to make people think oh w. This really is something I can [52:17] Jennifer Rayner: achieve generational piece and not baby steps in. So people think baby steps. They think nudging and they're like oh, there's all these problems. All these programs that already nudge people, but they nudge people in the save site $0.05 then save $0.10 then. I'm not talking about nudging people in the actual literacy part. I don't even want to offer financial literacy. There's enough of it out there free of charge. [52:39] JD: And Mark, you, you hate that shit. You hate the wellness and you hate the literacy because of the low adoption. And Jennifer talked about it. [52:48] Chad: Time out. The literacy part? No, the, the financial wellness programs that people push as a tactic that just get them in the door gather does look at all the things I can do that aren't ever going up. [53:02] JD: Let me back up or defend the classic 401k for one moment then we'll play a game. I just want to. [53:09] Chad: I want six minutes. [53:10] JD: Dude, that's okay. I want to revisit forever. I love that Mark's the timekeeper these days. Fucking little whiner. [53:17] Chad: You're gonna say, say the real word you were gonna say. [53:20] Mark: I don't use that word. That's. That's offensive to certain. Yeah, okay. 401k plan. You're a normal human being. You've never saved money in your life. That's hard to do. You can't do it. Like Mark says, you gotta pay your bills. You. You got to do things you got to do. You get an employer that has a [53:41] JD: 401k plan with a match and you get auto enrolled for whatever. I don't give what the it is. [53:47] Mark: And you turn around and two years later you look at your account balance [53:53] JD: and you go me, Tim, Sally, Jane, whatever my name is. I have saved $4,000. I never would have imagined simple. [54:06] Justin: I mean I wake up in the [54:07] JD: morning I piss excellence that I was capable of that. I know for a fact that that has to inspire that person to start thinking about the rest of their financial world. And that's kind of what we're talking about here is like if people can start to believe in themselves and the 401k does that in a weird little way that they can save then that it can really be the spark to set them off down a bigger path. [54:33] Mark: But anyways, hooray. [54:34] JD: 401k. They're so awesome, aren't they? [54:36] Mark: Let's play a game. It's the totally original didn't bite off anyone other's game. Noper. Dope game. I'm sure you've seen this Jennifer. The whole world is as massive fans of the totally original no for dope game. [54:52] Jennifer Rayner: Okay I don't watch a lot of tv. [54:54] Mark: I'm waiting for my graphic but Brandon's [54:56] JD: probably drinking tequila or something. [54:59] Speaker G: Just give it a second. [54:59] Chad: I gotta. [55:00] Speaker G: I gotta find it deck somewhere. [55:04] Speaker E: He's trying to drive Mark nuts by burning. [55:07] Speaker G: I. I could just do this one though for. [55:15] JD: I just said lame as I'm so you said I'm sewing into my graphic. [55:19] Justin: We have to see this. [55:20] Mark: Okay. All right. The nope or dope game. We're going to go to you Jennifer first I'm going to ask you something about pop culture, the life and you tell me whether it's dope or whether nope. [55:31] JD: Okay. [55:33] Mark: Have you seen this thing in your email in Outlook? Chad wrote me or Brandon wrote me an email today and my and my little app. Successful this shitty time and my little [55:56] JD: app gave me like a little pre [55:59] Mark: done response to him where I could say yes thanks for that and I just Hit it. And it responded my email. I did it for the first time today. But I asked you. Jennifer, no for Duke. [56:14] Jennifer Rayner: I'm sorry. Scared to death that it's going to do that. And then there should have been something else or it seems to like what she really respond. It's like that's okay for text, but because people are expecting that. But an email, they might be expecting that you're actually responding to them, not just giving them a quick. I don't have time for you. [56:33] JD: It felt so good when I did it. [56:35] Mark: Chad, what do you think about this? What if it evolves and it gives [56:39] JD: me like two sentences or something? [56:41] Speaker E: Now that would be sweet if there was some. Some artificial intelligence in there that. That, that really had a sound response. I'm into that. But the quick, like yes, thanks. No, there's no value. You just wasted time even clicking that. And me, I wasted my time in reading it. I mean, either send me something or don't. [56:59] Mark: Before on this show, I brought up the. Are you seeing it in Outlook where it finishes your sentences if you hit tab? I'm starting to use that more, Justin. But the one I talked about, you get an email and you all you got to do is push a button. [57:12] Justin: No, I mean it was cool when it came out on text, but nobody uses it. Everyone thought it was going to be this new thing. Nobody gives a shit. [57:18] JD: Oh, I used it today, Mark. [57:19] Justin: What? [57:20] JD: Say it. [57:20] Justin: You will start using it, but you'll forget about it. [57:22] Chad: So I was a naysayer to the text message, double click, hit the thumbs up thing for a while and now I use it constantly. So I'm a naysayer now. I think it's like a virtual slap in the face that you didn't even care to hit reply and then type four words. [57:37] Justin: So that's like mean. [57:38] Chad: But if it included a graphics interchange format, you guys know what that stands for, then I'm in love. [57:47] Mark: Those. Okay. I don't know. Watch it evolve. It could be cool. [57:51] Justin: Wait, this from the same guy who hates it when graphics interchange formats are in emails you be in. That was part of a lamer game. [57:57] Mark: Who hates that? Mark? [57:59] Chad: Was that from like, I don't know when I started this game and I don't know, 2012 or something? [58:04] Mark: Hey, I would live my life with those little. Those little letters you talked about. I love those things. They communicate how I feel. My only problem with those is it takes me a long time to find the really good one. You know, I waste a lot of time. Okay, next. No Per do. I almost said lamer game. The next no per do. Because that's what I'm playing is using them. [58:26] JD: Food delivery services, Jennifer, you know, the door dashes, the whatever the fuck Uber eats. [58:33] Mark: Are you so lazy that you want people to deliver food to your home? Yes or no? [58:39] Jennifer Rayner: I'm in the experience of actually seeing human beings other than my kids. So now, Chad, are you getting food [58:48] Mark: delivered to the home? [58:49] Speaker E: I'm answering it in two ways. Am I lazy enough to order food and want it delivered to my home? 100%. Am I willing to pay one extra cent to have that happen? No. Those sites are so expensive. Order a cheeseburger and it's like a $42 cheeseburger because it's $22 in delivery and expense. [59:06] Jennifer Rayner: Justin, you never mind that the restaurants are losing money on that. Just saying. [59:11] Justin: I'm right there with Chad. Unless I'm hungover. It's greatest in the world. [59:16] Mark: Yeah, well, when you're just sitting out in your Lambo and you're chilling and you want someone to bring you, you know, a burrito, it's a nice little thing. [59:23] Justin: Think of how fast you. You can get to the store and back in a line. [59:26] Mark: Mark, I'm gonna ask you a new one. [59:28] Chad: So let me answer. [59:29] Speaker E: Although. [59:29] Chad: Okay, Sherry stole my answer. I feel like I'm just. I was gonna say I'm a note because I'm a frugal, I'm a cheap guy, and I'm the same as Chad. But when you are drunk and you could get room service to your home, I'm. Come on. I've never done it. Well, except for one time at Chad's place when I got Domino's, and it was. That's pizza delivery, so that's not even. That doesn't count. I'm kind of including that, I guess. So, yeah. [59:57] Speaker E: Restaurant delivery is different than the eating application. [59:59] Chad: So now I will say, the one time I did use it, our food came cold. And so then I was like, no, I can't. [1:00:05] Justin: I can't do this. [1:00:06] Speaker G: I would love to use it, but my food's always cold, so I'm done. [1:00:10] Jennifer Rayner: I'd like to say I do get my groceries delivered. [1:00:12] JD: Ooh, that's. [1:00:13] Jennifer Rayner: I'm down for that. [1:00:14] Chad: I hate to do that one. [1:00:15] Mark: Next week. [1:00:16] Chad: Next week. [1:00:16] Mark: Hey, I know it's two minutes after. And I know that blessed you, Mark. [1:00:21] JD: I know that accepts you, accepts you, upsets you. [1:00:27] Mark: I've had. I got a lot of empty beer [1:00:28] JD: cans next to me. If out there in the chat Bar. [1:00:32] Mark: If you would like this show to stop now, on time, as it should, just say shut up or something and we'll stop it. But otherwise. I got another one. I got another one for you. Nice. Chad, Chad. [1:00:45] Jennifer Rayner: Chad. [1:00:45] Mark: Your vote doesn't count, Jennifer. Nope. Or dope. [1:00:51] JD: Smuggling alcohol into somewhere where it's not allowed. [1:00:56] Mark: Like Disneyland. Or back in the day, those movie theaters that didn't serve you a vodka soda. [1:01:02] JD: Problem at all? [1:01:04] Jennifer Rayner: Is it something I do know? Is it something I'm okay with? Yes, it's totally fine. You know what I mean? But I don't necessarily do it. [1:01:13] Mark: I don't know. Do you think it's fine we're at the movie theater and. And someone drops their bottle and it rolls down below you and you go, that person's got a problem. They could not watch a 90 minute movie without bringing booze. Chad, have you done this before? [1:01:30] Chad: Expensive enough. [1:01:30] Speaker E: I'm. I'm down for sneaking booze into places that aren't selling booze. But if you're selling booze, I'm not sneaking it in. [1:01:39] Mark: Chad, that's not your God. [1:01:43] JD: I like that. [1:01:45] Mark: You sound like a prudent fiduciary Chad. I really like that explanation. Justin. Have you done this before and are you a fan of it or no? [1:01:53] Justin: Big fan of it. I mean, like I just said. Did you see the cost of a beer at PGA was $18? [1:01:57] Speaker E: Oh my gosh. [1:01:58] Justin: Yeah, screw that shit. [1:02:00] JD: So you guys keep doing this as a cost thing. [1:02:02] Mark: I'm. [1:02:03] JD: To me. [1:02:03] Mark: It's not about the money. We all know that. [1:02:05] Jennifer Rayner: You know a lot of it. [1:02:07] Mark: Yeah. I've got so much money, it's like pouring out my fucking ears. [1:02:11] JD: I don't know what to do with [1:02:12] Mark: it all, but yes. [1:02:14] Chad: Mark, here's the deal. And I'll use an example from just this winter, right? You get these. It was a Christmas in the park. You walk around, look at Christmas lights with your kids, right? You walk in, you just. Nighttime. [1:02:26] Mark: Whatever. [1:02:27] Chad: Did my wife and I bring a little to go to go cups with a flask of like, some stuff and make cocktails on the go? Yeah, of course. So I'm 100% game on that, JD. [1:02:41] JD: Okay, I like that. I'm game two. But nobody cares what I think. Let's go to chat bar champion. [1:02:47] Mark: My vote is going to be the [1:02:48] JD: way the cookie crumbles. [1:02:50] Mark: Can't even get my tagline off. Such an idiot. [1:02:54] Chad: That's what it takes to take your lanyard off either. We haven't addressed that yet. [1:03:01] Speaker E: I didn't Even see it. [1:03:02] Chad: Yeah, yeah. [1:03:03] Speaker E: Did not even pay. [1:03:04] Chad: It's become part of him, Chad. It's not. [1:03:06] Justin: Yeah, it's. [1:03:07] Mark: You know, you can still smell a bit of Fred Reich on this. It hasn't been that long. Okay, Chat bar champion, my vote is going to be for Timothy Yee. And you know why, Timothy? Because you're a little social responsibility freak and I love you for that. Justin, who's your vote for chat bar champion? [1:03:27] Justin: Jason Lee. [1:03:29] Mark: J, you can't do another. Oh, I did a Yee. He did a Lee. Okay, good. Jason Lee. Fair enough. Chad, your vote. [1:03:36] Speaker E: I decided before the start of the show for the next few weeks. [1:03:39] JD: That's not. Okay. [1:03:40] Speaker E: The most active. Oh, no, no. I'm not picking the most active because we have so many good people that are constant in there. I'm picking the singular best comment. [1:03:49] JD: I like that. [1:03:49] Speaker E: That I liked. [1:03:50] JD: I like that. [1:03:50] Speaker E: It was. It was Tony Davis. [1:03:54] JD: Okay, Mark, [1:04:01] Chad: I was struggling with this one a little bit because I feel like the. The upper echelon was out in full force today and Cherry won last week and she's been great today and she always is reading my mind somehow. [1:04:13] Justin: So I feel like we're somehow connected. [1:04:15] Chad: But I'm going to go with Samson. Sampson had a good night. [1:04:19] JD: Sampson's always a little aggressive, but I like it. [1:04:22] Mark: All right, Jennifer, final vote to send someone into the finals. Chad bar champion, who you voting for? [1:04:27] Jennifer Rayner: I wasn't paying attention. Sherry. [1:04:29] Mark: Sherry Fitz. [1:04:30] Chad: Fair enough. [1:04:30] Speaker E: Fair enough. [1:04:32] Mark: She wins. That's what Sherry needs is another fucking 120 bucks worth of pizza next week. All right, Brandon, we got Lee, we got Ye, we got Fitz, we got. We got Samson. We got someone else. [1:04:47] JD: Brandon picks up on that. I know he does. [1:04:50] Jennifer Rayner: I feel like I haven't drank enough. [1:04:53] Mark: Fair enough. [1:04:53] Chad: Well, Tony here. [1:04:55] Mark: Tony, Tony. Yeah. All you have to do, Jennifer, is [1:05:03] Chad: just saying it doesn't let us. [1:05:06] Mark: It's. You can't. [1:05:07] Jennifer Rayner: Okay, so tp, Ems, whatever. [1:05:13] JD: Nice. I'll say. [1:05:15] Mark: I think. I think PDC is an awesome TPA that you all should. [1:05:26] Jennifer Rayner: That's good stuff. [1:05:27] Mark: And the winner is Timothy. Not a boy Timothy. [1:05:33] Speaker E: I think that's Timothy's first W, isn't it? [1:05:35] Mark: Timothy? Send me. Send private message me your. Your mailing address and maybe your cell number too, so I can make sure at home. I don't like the pizzas to sit on your front deck if you're not there. But what you don't do is don't tell me what kind of pizzas you like because I'm the one that gets to pick. It's a lot of fun when I get on there and you know. [1:05:57] JD: Oh wow. [1:05:57] Mark: I've never seen that combo. Let me give it a shot. [1:06:00] Speaker E: So did you send sherry heart pizzas? [1:06:04] Mark: No, sorry. [1:06:05] Justin: You can only do that on a Valentine's Day. Chad. [1:06:08] Mark: I didn't send sherry heart pizzas. [1:06:10] Speaker G: I think we should start sending everyone malort. [1:06:13] Justin: Yeah. [1:06:17] Chad: I love that you have those, Brandon. Holy. [1:06:19] Mark: I've got bottles here too, but I didn't bust them out tonight. Thank you Jennifer for hanging out with us. We very much appreciate it. Thank you you guys for being my friends. I love you so much Mark. Even though you have really up perspectives on life and like people's decision making processes, I still love you. [1:06:43] Chad: I'm just, I'm just thinking of the little people. Don't think the wrong way. The little people, the ones that don't drive Lambos. [1:06:50] Mark: You're the voice of the regular folk. You are. [1:06:53] Chad: You are the rope wearing weirdos. [1:06:55] Mark: You know I never think. I never think enough is thank you to Brandon for Brandon basically being at his computer all day today, prepping for this show and doing it every single week and coming through with our live shows. [1:07:10] JD: By the way, I don't think we [1:07:11] Mark: talked much about this last week. We banged out 5, 4, 4 fucking live shows in 24 hours from Austin, Texas. Hooray us. And hooray Brandon for being an absolute baller. Yes, Brandon, you have something to say [1:07:28] Speaker G: for your award just now? I just have to edit them all. [1:07:33] Chad: And is Brandon about to chug him alert. [1:07:36] Speaker E: I think he's about to chug. My lord. [1:07:38] Jennifer Rayner: No, you can edit these down. [1:07:39] Speaker G: That was Jack Daniels. [1:07:42] JD: And last and last, not least from the bottom of my beating heart and my unpunctured lung, I want to say thank you to everyone in the chat bar for showing up every Thursday. And not as. Not a big amount of thanks for you guys as the those guys but the people who tune in afterwards on YouTube and all them. Yeah, thanks. But you should be showing up on Thursday like these good people. [1:08:10] Mark: All you out there right now. I love you so much. You're like part of the fucking family. I've had five beers [1:08:18] Jennifer Rayner: now when you [1:08:18] Mark: start telling people you love them. [1:08:20] Chad: Hey jd what kind of beer you drinking? [1:08:21] Mark: Coors. [1:08:22] Chad: Yeah, we forgot to introduce a beer [1:08:25] Mark: that I wouldn't on the after show. Stay around for the after show. Jennifer, if you can stick around for the after show, Mark's gonna give the beer of the episode and I'm getting hammered. Let's play some music. [1:08:39] Speaker G: We also have a game JD Forgot about. [1:08:41] Mark: Yeah, we'll play another game. I didn't forget about it. I'm just managing time, people. I'm managing time. [1:08:46] Jennifer Rayner: I have an entire bottle of Portaleza tequila. [1:08:50] Mark: Let's. Let's remedy that. [1:08:51] Speaker G: I have a box of Malort. [1:08:54] Mark: I got some alert here, too. I'm gonna have some alert with you, Brandon, in the after show. [1:08:58] JD: Okay? [1:09:00] Mark: Let's play some music. [1:09:01] Chad: Oh, Sherry Fitz's gummies.