Live Q&A: MEPs, Fees & Firing Problem Clients

[0:00] JD: What's up? What's up? What's up? What's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Retireholics Sheltering in Place. Brandon, by the way, has a new name for our show. It's Retireholics Sheltering in Place. The Second Wave. So that's where we're at right now. My name is Jay Dizzle. I am here with the verbose. The always chatty, chatty, silent Justin. And then that handsome gentleman with a huge brain in his skull, the lover of spreadsheets, nerdy Chad. That's him. And then friggin. Friggin. Everyone's favorite retireholic robe guy. [0:44] Chad: Mark, I feel like you're wearing a hat for a specific reason tonight. Because I do not recognize nor have I ever seen that hat. [0:52] Justin: What is that? [0:53] Mark: Pretty awesome. It's a bucket. It's a Travis Matthew hat that says buckets and it's kind of a. [1:00] JD: It can go. [1:01] Mark: You can use it either way, right? Yeah, you can. [1:03] JD: Kobe or range? [1:06] Chad: Buckets. Oh, Mark, you need some buckets in your golf game. [1:11] JD: Mark. [1:12] Justin: Speaking of Travis Matthews, you got a patch anywhere on there? Nope. [1:17] JD: Okay. A little housekeeping. Housekeeping. Housekeeping. Thank you. Sleeping. He's so nice. He's sleeping. He's like, no, thanks, man. No thanks. I'm sleeping. All right, Housekeeping, make sure you're in gallery view. That's up in the top, right? So you can see all of us at the same time and not just the person talking. Yes. We've got a new little vibe we're doing today, but we still do the cbc, the chat bar champion. So we comment with humor, comment with intelligence, rip on the host of the show, whatever you gotta do to win the chat bar challenge. [1:58] Chad: Lauren's off to a good start already. [2:00] JD: Uh, oh, shoot. I haven't paid attention. [2:02] Chad: I mean, it's not a good start in terms of points. He's just on and ripping the show. [2:07] JD: I'm saying this, pay close attention to the chat bar today and word of the episode, where the episode today will be P L A N. I figure we're going to talk about a variety of subjects. That's the one I feel like could come up a lot. So that's it. P L A N. Let's talk show format, shall we? Who's the guest today? The guest is you. You're the friggin guest. The attendees, the chat bar, you're the guest. We're doing a little Q and A episode. So all you got to do is I want you to do two things you. You can have fun in the chat bar and mess around and say whatever you want. But if you want to partake in the Q and A, put a little Q in front. I'm going to practice one for y'. All. Put a little Q and a semicolon. And then, like, your question, why does. Oh, sorry. Why does Mark smell? And then if you're down to actually have Brannon turn on your video, put at the end of it in all caps. Video. Just like I did there. Put a cue for the question. Give us your question. If you're down for us to turn on your video, put video. It doesn't mean we're going to. For sure. We'll hand select. I'm a little afraid. Like, if PCH did a video one, I'm not so sure I would turn on his video. We'll see. If you don't want video turned on, then just leave that word off the end, and we'll just take your questions as they come in. If you do decide to put on your video, I want to apologize right now. I have a habit. Like when we do live shows on stage and someone from the audience tries to chime in with something funny, make sure it's funny. Make sure you're looking good on your video and everything's cool, or I'm going to tear you the F apart. Okay? So don't be a loser on the video unless you're not ready for it. That's it. That's the game. That's the. That's the show. Let's do one thing. Let's spill. Let's spin the. Yes. [4:08] Mark: Mark, we have a word. [4:11] Chad: Yeah, you spelled it out. Don't tell Mark what it is. Don't tell what it is. [4:16] Mark: Just. I guess I wasn't paying attention. What is it? I don't know. You can. You get one. [4:19] Chad: You get one. [4:20] Mark: Don't just. I didn't hear it. [4:22] Chad: No, that's the point of not telling you. So you say it. [4:24] Mark: No, you have to tell me. Please. [4:26] JD: Ask Michael Webb. He'll let you know what it is. Okay, that's it. Let's get started. First question comes from Greg Greenfield. Question. Why doesn't Mark pay attention? Greg? I think that's kind of his shtick. I think he likes to play it cool. He likes, you know, be, like, lackadaisical, kind of millennial. [4:47] Chad: The word. [4:48] JD: So it's just a shtick. [4:50] Mark: Wait, do I get to answer that question? I. I was reading the chat bar, and. And I just saw. [4:56] Chad: I just didn't care. Mark, if you Were really reading the chat bar. You would have seen Greg ass that. If he types it, does he have to drink? So you weren't reading the chat bar. You were doing something completely inappropriate. [5:12] JD: Okay, so I got the word, I [5:13] Mark: got the word down. [5:14] JD: Got it. [5:14] Chad: All right, I found it. [5:16] JD: Let's just. Okay, let's just sit here in silence until the next question comes up. [5:21] Chad: No, there was a question earlier from Brad. Whose kids are most likely to take over plan design and keep the retireholics alive when we retire? Justin's kids for sure. [5:33] Justin: Absolutely. [5:35] Mark: Yep. [5:36] JD: So who. Who asked that question? Brad? [5:40] Chad: I believe it asked that question. [5:41] JD: Well, I do want you to know that my 22 year old daughter and my 6 year old daughter want nothing to do with plan design consultants. My. Did I say 16, 22 and 18. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Got it. Okay. [5:53] Mark: Dad's got one too. I forgot. [5:55] JD: That's one for me. [5:57] Mark: Sorry, Brandon. I was. My. [6:00] JD: My 16 year old son for sure wants to take over the company, but I don't know, I'm a little worried about that. His plans are to fire as many people as he can so he can increase his paycheck and not even using it in the contract. [6:18] Chad: He'll just run it into the ground. He'll fire everybody, claim payroll, not do any work, and let it last for, you know, nine months before he gets fully caught by next year's set of administration. [6:29] Mark: And then. [6:30] Chad: And then he'll just go into hiding. [6:32] JD: He said that to me when he was about 12. He goes, dad, how much do you pay everyone? And I was like, oh, it's, you know, kind of like this amount. He goes, I have an idea. Just stop paying them and pay us more. I was like, okay, so son, let's talk about running a business. So these people do different jobs, you know, we need to. He didn't really get it. Blake, how is your son doing with his investment portfolio? Not great. He checks every single morning. I'm usually in the middle of an email and he jumps in and wants to check his E Trade account. He's expanded his investments. He's not just in airlines anymore. He's got a cannabis company. He puts some money into Peloton if he's. [7:13] Chad: If he's cannabis trulieve. Oh, that's insider trading, dude. Can't do that kind of stuff. [7:19] JD: He's in a. He's in a Canadian cannabis company, which is comparison not been faring well. I don't know, but Peloton has done okay for him. But I look at his count, he is down what percent? I think he's down like 2% or something right now. So I told him the other day, he. I said, hey, buddy, we were in the hot tub together, and I said, you know, in like, 20 years, your. The. The 10 grand that you have in your E Trade account will probably be worth, like 10 grand if you keep at your current rate of return. [7:54] Chad: And he was pumped about that. [7:55] Mark: Yeah. That's a lot of money. [7:56] JD: That was a joke. [7:57] Justin: Hey, Mark, add. Add David K's question to your lamer game, please. [8:03] Mark: What's his question? [8:05] Justin: That midway. [8:06] Chad: Do I have to scroll? [8:07] Mark: Can you, like, just text it to me or something? [8:08] Justin: Yeah, I'll text you. [8:09] Chad: I'm keeping a running list. Guys, this is going to move through the chat bar quickly. [8:13] JD: All right? Michael Webb, is there something about you that would shock us? Example, the fact that JD is old enough to have a daughter who is 22. This question's not just for me. Mark, is there something about you that they don't know that would shock them? Aren't you afraid? What are you paranoid of that we. [8:33] Chad: Oh, yeah. No. Yep. Can I tell him? Mark? Let me tell him. Mark has put it this way, Chad. [8:41] Mark: I can't stop you from telling him. [8:44] Chad: He has a genuine fear. He is absolutely terrified of cotton balls. So I've liked. I've tried to take his car keys and hide them in the cotton balls, and as soon as you start describing, like, the texture of your hand hitting the cotton balls, he loses his shit. He can't handle it. [9:02] Justin: So, Mark, do you have to, like, [9:03] Chad: clean the keys after they come out [9:05] Justin: of the cotton balls or what happens there? Like, what's your process after that? Or can you just grab. No problem just by. [9:10] Chad: He's hard. Yeah, I was gonna say. He's not touching them. Justin. There's no chance I relate to this. [9:17] Speaker E: I hate dry napkins. [9:20] Justin: Okay. [9:20] JD: Like, if I [9:23] Speaker E: like the brown paper napkins like that are like, get us. [9:28] JD: I don't like paper straws. Paper straws feel weird on my lips, so I get it. [9:32] Justin: Okay, real talk. Is anyone worried about Joe Biden changing the retirement plan rule? [9:36] JD: There we go. Thanks. Who did that? David. Real question. [9:40] Chad: He threw video on there, too. [9:43] JD: I was worried when I first. When I first saw it. And if you haven't seen it, check out some of Nevin Adams posts from, I don't know, the last couple weeks. He's done a pretty good job of summarizing it. But then I heard a lot of pretty smart talking heads chiming in, saying, nah, this isn't really Biden's flow and it's surely not going to come to fruition. So that made me feel cozy and comfortable. So I just went with that like it's not really going to happen. Have you guys anything different? Headlines, clickbait. You know, political reasons for sure to [10:18] Chad: try to get one side or the other to jump in and start thinking. I what was it a few years ago? It was before Trump's administration, right. That Obama was talking about putting a lifetime cap on D.C. plans as well. And I think all the folks who are higher up than we are said the same things, that it's nothing more than an audience grab, a headline, something that's trying to draw attention. I do think that there has been some genuine thought to what and if I recall Biden proposed this a long time ago in part of a discussion and it came back up recently. But I do think there is some generous or some genuine thought to making big changes like that in the retirement plan space. And I think we could see something dramatic happen short term. [11:08] Mark: Interesting. [11:09] Justin: You guys see Lauren's comment to kind of complement that he read an interesting article last night arguing for the Roth and his tax credit proposal. Assuming he means Biden. [11:19] JD: My biggest problem if we want to get serious about that kind of talk is and I don't want to get super political here, but I get this vibe that those articles are written based on this assumption that 401k vehicles are built for the highly compensated employees and they're all for these rich Republican types and therefore they need to be regulated in some way. And I think the funny silly thing about that for everyone tuning in who's an industry pro is I don't think those people understand ADP tasks and ACP tasks and safe harbor plans and and top heavy tasks and the fact that we have all these frickin rules to keep these things non discriminatory. And I'm not so certain all the people these articles and the general public quite understands that. [12:09] Chad: I think you're absolutely right. [12:12] JD: Let's go. Another serious subject. Shannon asked about Pepsi. She's trying to get my goat. But how about Pentegra MEP in the target lines of the 401k boogeyman Schlichter ADP MEP getting attacked by another law firm. Are you concerned that and here I am being the anti pep guy. Are you concerned that these MEPs are being attacked by these attorneys for not being prudent, for having proprietary conflicts of interest, for making too much money? Wouldn't you think that these MEPs are an indicator of what we may see with the Pepsi. And isn't this another shot against the Pepsi? Thank you. Doesn't JD love this? [12:59] Chad: But why JD? My question would be why, timing wise, why do you think these attorneys are going after MEPs fairly aggressively right now? [13:09] JD: Well, one reason. Is there lots of assets, right? That's. That's the. I think that's not to be pessimistic, but that's the first reason why any attorney is going to go after a plan is because there's a ton of money there, and that bodes well for them. But secondly, I do believe that I don't think Schlichter is such a bad guy. I think he looks for things that he doesn't think is right. And I don't know. Pentegra. And at this point, you're innocent till proven guilty in my world. I don't want to talk any smack about them, but I have seen a couple advisors chime in through social media saying it doesn't surprise them that that Pentagra is getting this lawsuit from Schlichter. So who knows the price here says David Gay. [13:54] Chad: Yeah, as far as Pantagar goes, I was. I was captivated by. And I think we can name drop, but I think it was Pete Swisher. It was at Integra, wasn't he? [14:03] JD: Yep. Yep, he was. [14:05] Chad: He left the timings. Timing is kind of interesting. I think he left six, eight months ago. [14:11] JD: That long ago was it? [14:13] Chad: I think it could be shorter. I think my point of asking you the question is we've seen over the years the ERISA attorneys that are targeting class action are usually going after low hanging fruit. And I feel like the MEP and PEP space is still confusing for many, and that's low hanging fruit. And they're looking at it right now going. It's getting a lot of pr. I guarantee you we can find holes. And I think that's why we're starting to see it pop up more in the last three, four, five months than we ever did before. [14:43] JD: Yeah, I do feel like pep's losing a lot of its positivity. You're right, Chad. He left in February of 2020, so it seems like yesterday to me, but it's a little farther off. All right, let's have some fun. Michael keeps bringing the fun ones. What musical artist are you most embarrassed? Good one, Michael. To admit that you really enjoy most embarrassed. Chad. [15:09] Chad: You guys know I don't listen to much music, but I'd probably say most Embarrassed would be Taylor Swift. [15:16] JD: You like her? [15:17] Chad: I like Taylor Swift. [15:18] JD: What's the SNL where you got Swift Decides or Swiftee or whatever. Have you ever seen that? No. [15:24] Speaker E: Swiftamine. [15:25] JD: Swift means everyone loves Taylor Swift when you. And you claim you don't. [15:30] Justin: Duran Duran. That's a good one. [15:32] Chad: Cheese. Yeah. [15:32] JD: Why would you be embarrassed of Duran Duran, Shannon? [15:37] Chad: All right, Justin, you're a music guy, so what do you got? [15:40] Justin: Well, my initial one was going to be T. Swift, but I can't do that now, so I'm going to say Enya. [15:45] Chad: Oh, I love Anya, man. [15:47] JD: I don't think that's embarrassing either, Mark. [15:49] Chad: That's a good one. [15:50] Mark: I think that's just weird. I'm not embarrassed by this. This probably goes more to the shocking question as well, but my all time favorite music artist, just in general is Phil Collins by far. [16:04] JD: Yeah, that's me. Yeah. Okay. [16:06] Mark: I'm not embarrassed by that one bit. [16:07] JD: You should be. But you're owning it. I like that. [16:10] Chad: Yeah, that's weird conviction there, Brad. [16:12] Justin: I feel like that's a quote from a movie or something. We should know it. But I don't. [16:15] JD: But he's good. He's good. [16:17] Justin: She dances on the sand. [16:19] JD: This one's probably not gonna make sense for everyone listening, but my. My daughter, the aspiring rock star, has tuned me into a lot of these alternative bands that I'm really into. Many of these posters back behind me, and I actually like listening to an artist that she thinks is horrible and would hate me if I listen to it. And she's very poppy. And I. So. So I can only listen to it when my daughter's not around. And that is Halsey. So I'm personally embarrassed by that because my daughter would kick my ass if she. [16:53] Speaker E: I love Tattoo T A T U. Russian lesbian band from like the mid-90s. [17:00] Mark: Oh, they got that one song that. [17:05] Speaker E: I could pull it up right now. [17:07] JD: Hey, J.D. [17:07] Chad: this. I'm gonna. I'm gonna throw this question out there because it came out earlier, but I feel like we might need a little time to digest. So perhaps we don't answer it immediately, but it was. You're now in charge of the Department of Labor. What's the first change you make related to retirement plans? [17:22] JD: Is that your question or someone from the. [17:24] Chad: No, I think that was Brad that posted that one. [17:26] Justin: That's actually a good question. [17:27] Chad: We can do it, but hard, right? Like you wanna put a little bit of thought into that. [17:30] JD: Oh, fair enough. [17:31] Justin: Dad, are you going right for planned testing? [17:34] Chad: Well, I mean, we Had a similar question like that in the past, which is, if you could change one thing about the compliance side of things, what would it be? [17:42] Justin: It was in Orlando, actually. [17:43] Chad: It was in Orlando. And yeah, I mean, to the core of my beliefs, I think that there are certain non discriminatory tests that should not exist. And the one that I address most was Gateway. And looking at profit sharing, I think that once you give a minimum to participants, ownership regardless of age, should be able to max out. So if I'm 30 years old and I give 5% to my staff, I should be able to get up to my 57,000. Just the way a 62 year old gives 5% to the staff can get up to their 63. 5. [18:18] JD: Can I ask, is the answer to this question what the right thing is to do, or is it what would serve you best personally? I mean, we're asking what's right. [18:29] Chad: What's the first change you would make? Because you would squash Maps and peps, huh? Squasher. [18:38] JD: Damn it. I didn't think of that. That would have been great. Just squash all Pepsi. And anyone involved with a PEP has to be executed. [18:49] Chad: I mean, if you feel like you're ready, answer it. Jd, what would you change? You're sitting at the helm. What's it gonna. [19:00] JD: I would, I would continue along this path of making the rules as complex as they can possibly be and just make more nuances, more little traps, more new rules so TPAs could flourish deep into the decades that are ahead of us. That's what I would do. [19:22] Chad: Half the folks here are TPAs, so you're probably speaking to our audience right now. [19:27] JD: Yeah, it's great that it's complicated. That's why we get paid the big bucks. [19:32] Justin: I think I'd like to see something along the lines of based on your company size, being able to tier how much your gateway actually is. Because, you know, we always try, at least in the small world, to make it tax beneficial for the owners. But if they have 100, 150 employees, even 50 employees, it doesn't work out for them. So if you, you know, over a certain percentage, you get a little bit more of a break than having to do 5% or, you know, 7, 10%, [19:59] JD: you just came up with something new that accomplishes what you want and helps me out with my goal. So that's good. [20:04] Chad: And it's really discriminatory too. Like, hey, you belong to a bigger company, so you get less go work for that 12 person, [20:14] Justin: 63 and a half, you know, but you have Way too big of a company. [20:17] JD: Thank you, Michael. Letting the audience know, if you're trying to be part of the Q and A, put a Q before your question. Otherwise we just think you're chatting. You got it, Michael. You know, you know, Michael. [20:29] Chad: Mark, what do you got? [20:31] Justin: I don't know. [20:32] Mark: You guys have said a lot of good things where mine, mine was taking me. And again, in Orlando, I think the question was different. I said, just get rid of TPA revenue sharing. But I think this question revolves a little bit more around maybe some design aspects where I'd say maybe just [20:51] Speaker F: let's [20:52] Mark: change safe harbor flexibility. I know there's some changes that have been made to the secure act, but like, I don't know, add some different matching formulas. You know, we're talking about how saving rates are so low. [21:03] JD: Why can't we. Mark, keep. Finish your thought. Brandon, can you get David K on via video? Go ahead, Mark. [21:10] Mark: Why can't we have a more of a, you know, a higher level match or some sort of customized approach within a safe harbor like we can with a discretionary or a fixed match? [21:23] Chad: We get asked it all the time. Right. Why can't we tier matching more aggressively for more tenured employees? Which you can do, but it's hard to pass testing at times because your tenured employees tend to be your highly compensated folks. But yeah, why can't we put a match in place to say it's 7% for folks who have been here over five years and 6% and tear it up and really carve into the match? That's a good one. [21:49] JD: Like that. Yo, yo, David. David's going for the video. I like it. [21:54] Speaker G: He's all in. [21:57] Chad: What's the origin story of Mark's bathroom? [22:01] Mark: Oh, boy, you guys got time. So last year we were at a conference out at the Terranea Resort in Palos Verdes, and we were in these real nice cabanas. Cabana like no, Casitas Villas. There you go. And we were hanging out. [22:25] Justin: We actually got ourselves to be upgraded to them. [22:27] Mark: Right. I had been driving all day. I drove my family out from South Bay down to la, and we were in the hot tub hanging out, drinking, and JD was like, we've got to have retireholics meeting tonight. And it was like midnight or some ridiculous night time, and I wore a robe over to JD's villa. And then I fell asleep on the chair while they were talking about the hotel robe. [22:49] Chad: Yeah. [22:50] Mark: And they're throwing stuff at me. So I wake up the next day and I think JD text me with like you wearing that robe on stage or something. I was like, no, and there's no way. And then I was like, yeah, I probably should. And so I wore it live in a, in a live performance, if you will, in front of 300 plus advisors. And it's stuck ever since. And it's grown since then obviously with Brandon, our producer, saying hey, let's get people to throw patches on and stuff. [23:17] Chad: And so that was our, our biggest show to date too. So for him to walk out on stage, the 300 plus people in a live audience with a robe on, a lot of folks not knowing who we were yet at that point was pretty fantastic. [23:30] JD: And David, the idea was that his robe supposed to be kind of a NASCAR effect. Right. We want that thing to just be covered in sponsors and Mark's working on it and it's probably appropriate time, Mark, to show everyone the sponsors you have currently. [23:45] Mark: And well the, the, the, the initial sponsor, 401k Fridays. Shout out. [23:52] Chad: Rick Hunser. [23:52] JD: Didn't he get you the robe? [23:54] Mark: No, we bought it. We just asked him if we could actually embroider it with. It's not even his logo, it's just written on here in green. And then advisor 2x. So Ryan Lester hooked us up with that Suzanne over at nppg. [24:09] Chad: Damn. He even knows the name of all his sponsors. I'm impressed, Mark. [24:13] Mark: And then the company that pays me, plan design, Jeannie Fisher sent me one 401k lady that's on a hat somewhere right now. I haven't put it on because I don't know how to sew. So. And I, I'm supposed to be getting some more. [24:28] JD: I mean I know at this point, at this point David is like why did I fucking ask this question? [24:34] Chad: Fat on there. Yeah. Really? [24:36] JD: You're gonna give me a 20 minute frickin response to the rub? No one cares that much. [24:41] Chad: We didn't even bring him onto the Biden question. So [24:46] JD: calm. [24:47] Mark: Shout out Blake. So yeah, now the plug is you want to get on the road, all you have to do is get future plans on there. [24:59] JD: Yes. Hey David, we're going to let you go, but before you go, I want you to let all those people know at a census slash future plan, you walk over to the little future plan office and all their cubicles and you tell them to go ahead and keep buying up all those TPAs because I like it. The less tpas that are out there, the better for me. So you keep doing you. Thanks for the advice. Census in the house. Thanks bro. [25:28] Chad: Thanks David. [25:29] JD: All right, I liked how that works. I liked how that works. Hey, real quick, Sherry, vertically, asshole. [25:38] Justin: Hey, Sherry had shot out a question a while ago that it's fun and also industry related, said if you were Schlichter, who would you investigate first? [25:48] Chad: Oh, oh, I know my answer. [25:53] JD: If, if there was, if there was just in theory, if there was four people that worked in the financial services industry and they drank beer on a show and talked about, that might be a good place to look first because those people are probably fucking up some shit one way or another. [26:11] Chad: You know, Will's got it. That's where I would go. I'd be looking at the timing of float income. There should be no delay in contribution timing from withheld to being deposited at paychecks and ADP since they're on the payroll side of things. That's the first place I'd go if I was sitting in that seat. [26:30] Justin: I was going to say Apple. [26:32] Chad: Oh, yeah, you're thinking Apple plan. [26:36] JD: You think the Apple plan's messed up in some way. [26:39] Chad: There's quite a fucking Apple just signed with Empower. So what you're saying is do you think Apple? Do you think Empower? [26:44] JD: Yeah, they're with Empower. [26:47] Chad: Maybe it's asking me to explain a little bit more. So paychecks tends to, and many other providers tend to make a little margin on float timing. Oh man, I did say it on float timing from when dollars are withheld from payroll when they get deposited into the actual program. So I'm going to skip that word. And so they invest it during that short window. They make a little bit of money. They put the money into the program for the participants at that point and they make a spread on it. It's in their contract. In my mind. Typically it's quick. But in the paychecks ADP world, that's often where they get a decent amount of their income from. And so we see sometimes 48 hours plus from the time dollars withheld at the time they're deposited in a paychex. [27:37] JD: ADP Planch says, I thought everyone in the industry was ethical. Can I ask you guys, do you honestly think like these clients that get sued and get judgments against them or make deals like, do you really feel like it's unethical is the motivation or is it just kind of a lack of prudence and lack of understanding the landscape like it's PCH says greed. I don't know, maybe I'm just such a nice guy that I feel like I just think it's Big companies getting caught up in decades of doing things a certain way, not being able to unwind things the way they should. Maybe that is greed thinking, oh, well, we can keep going this way. We should be fine. Brandon's got a thought which is always good. [28:27] Speaker E: Well, you know, we have clients over the past 20 years or whatever that come in that they seem to be trying to skirt the rules and stuff and we'd have to talk them out of it. Like they just. But it was. There's, there's plans that, yeah, they, they just want to do it all for the owners and they want, they want everyone. [28:47] JD: So you're suggesting Mark got V. You're suggesting then that these, these large financial institutions are following the same path that they want to do what's good for them. Well, that's not far from the truth, I'm sure Chad make money. [29:00] Speaker E: Maybe not once they get on the s and P500, but yeah, you know, 200 employees or something. [29:08] Chad: From a provider perspective, though, J.D. i think, I think many of them are looking at different ways. There's a lot of people at each of these companies. Right. So there's different points of view. And I think many of them are looking for different ways to be profitable. And all it takes is one executive to agree and push something through. And now that's the norm for 50,401ks. I'm not going to say the P word. So I don't think there's bad intention. I think it's skirting the lines. Like Brandon saying, but after that continues to happen. And I think Will just said it a moment ago, he goes a little bit further, a little bit further than a little bit further. And at the point now when you look at float income and maybe, maybe the putting that in the contracts was, hey, it might take us eight or nine hours. Well, when it becomes 48 hours, you've stretched it too far. [30:01] JD: Chad really likes, really has an issue with this float income thing. We're gonna. I do. [30:05] Chad: When you're the payroll provider, there should be no time. It should be simultaneous. [30:09] JD: I don't know, Jimmy. [30:10] Chad: Looking out on market returns or missing out on market returns. [30:13] JD: I don't know. This Jimmy Hoffa stuff that Greg's talking about, I need to check that out. That'll be cool. I like Brad. Brad's question is a perfect kind of shift. It's still, it's not super fun, but it's still 401k based. Speaking of clients, have you ever fired a client? When is it time to trim the fat and separate yourself from problem clients. I'm going to, I'm dealing with some of that stuff right now, but I want to the second part of your question. I personally don't ever feel like I need to trim the fat, separate myself from problem clients. Like, I think that's part of the game. I'm have to deal with the good, the bad and the ugly to an extent. So I'm not necessarily looking at my client base and going like, okay, can I get rid of the least efficient ones to improve our profit margins? That's never my motivation. However, if you, if a client speaks poorly to my staff, makes them feel as though, makes them sad, makes, makes them stressed, and continues to do it on a repeat basis. And I've seen some pretty ugly emails and certain things where. And my team comes to me and goes, oh my God, this person is giving me nightmares. Then I start to kind of take inventory and start to try to have discussions with that client. Now the problem for me is the advisors are client first. And so I always want to try to reach out to Chad, Justin, Mark, soon to be Josh, and be like, okay, let's make sure the advisors involved in this and maybe the advisors can help. But yeah, when clients are being dicks to my people, I'm ready to tell them to go find someone else on that one. [31:55] Justin: Jd, is there's no advisor attached to [31:57] Chad: the plan on that one? Jd, did you see Shannon's question? [32:01] JD: No, no, no, sorry. I'm 13 behind. [32:04] Chad: Do you ever allow your staff to choose a few clients each year to fire? [32:09] JD: I've heard that. That's our buddy in Orange County. [32:11] Speaker E: They know we tried that like 10, 15 years ago. JD, you remember that? [32:16] JD: I don't like that idea. [32:18] Speaker E: No, it didn't go anywhere. It was a nonsense. [32:21] Chad: And so here Aaron makes a good point. Because Aaron, I've heard from advisors over the years that they rank their clients from, you know, profitable or ABC or whatever kind of ranking you might put into play. And you decide who are your profitable clients or your A clients. And you may spend more time with them or expect a larger margin with them. And you have the opportunity because they are your clients to trim at that point. Those ones that are not profitable, like Josh mentioned In the chat, JD's last point there is crucial for us. 100% of our business comes from advisors. Well, maybe a few from record keepers that we then refer an advisor in. But everything comes through FAs, so we don't really get the opportunity to, to just trim clients that we're not profitable with. [33:09] JD: Imagine you're an advisor. You don't want to hear if you're an advisor, that your TPA is firing the client that you recommended, you know, to them. That's ridiculous because they're not profitable. [33:19] Justin: She charges a pain in the ass fee of 25%. [33:23] JD: I would argue to Aaron's comment that I would say and as an advisor, it's a little different. [33:28] Chad: Yeah, I get it. [33:29] JD: No, but still I would say me personally and I get both ways and everyone has a right to run their business any way they want to. Never understood this analogy, but there's several ways to skin a cat. That sounds horrible. And I just feel like why not look at clients that are not profitable. We talked about this in a past episode. And go to them and make them profitable. You go back to those clients and you say, hey, look, we need to change your fees from X to Y. And then if they don't agree, then fine, then you're trimming that fat. But I would say go back to them and up their fees transparently and talking to them about it. So. But those are some good questions around getting rid of clients. I'm only going to do it when I've been pushed to the absolute brink, you know, because otherwise I feel like we're in the service model, we have to take their shit. And if you've got bad people that are your clients, you just deal with it. You put a smile on your face and you do what you can to help them and put your head, your head on your pillow at night feeling good about it. Be. [34:31] Chad: Yeah. To answer Tony's question, yeah, there are clients that we just eat it and we continue to move forward. And again, that's because we believe that the advisor is our client. And so if you're talking about a business that ends up being tough. And that's to JD's point though, if they're mistreating our team, Brandon's bringing some. We're finding a way to get you out of there. [34:54] JD: Brandon's bringing someone on without asking us, I think is what's happening [35:01] Justin: or whatnot. Chad. [35:03] Chad: What's that, Jess? [35:04] Justin: I think that varies depending on, to answer Tony's question was it varies if you're the TPA or if you're the advisor or whatnot. From the advisor standpoint, I can see like how Aaron and Sherry are thinking that, yeah, it's not worth to keep them, but for us it's a lot different because we have to worry about that relationship. [35:23] Chad: I have a question for you. Guys, and I think. Jd, I kind of know your answer. I'd still like to hear it. But this is for Mark and Justin, who are a little newer than I am. [35:32] JD: Chad telling me. [35:35] Chad: No, not, not really. I want to know if you think record keepers are making too much money because there's this fee compression heavy and it seems to be focused on the record keeping space, although it's happening to the rest of us advisors and TPAs as well. But do you think record keepers are making too much money? [35:57] Justin: I think in our space that we operate in, I don't see how they're making enough, you know, that sub million or even 2, 3. But you go above that 5 million, it could be depending on how they're pricing. Where I think they're making too much money is where they, you know, had a $5 million plan since inception. It's never been repriced. [36:17] Chad: Kudos. [36:18] JD: Keep talking. I'm having fun in the chat bar. [36:20] Chad: That's a good one right there. Mark, what do you think? [36:23] Mark: I honestly was going down the same path as Justin, thinking to myself, if record keepers are obviously looking at their entire client base, what gives them some flexibility to be so low on cost to win this new business? And it's gotta be from obviously some [36:49] Chad: antiquated business that maybe they're. [36:51] Mark: They're making a bunch on obviously. I know that there's triggers and levers in there and proprietary funds and a number of different ways that they can make sure they're making some money on the plan. Because I'll be honest, they just like us all. They need to keep the lights on [37:03] Chad: and they can do that. [37:03] JD: They just do a lot of work. [37:05] Mark: Yeah, they do population to pull from and other, other areas where they can make additional dollars. [37:12] Justin: But. [37:12] Mark: So I guess my overall answer would be yeah, I agree with Justin on that front. [37:17] Chad: Justin's. Yeah, that comment was perfect. It's space dependent. Right. I think if I. Let me rephrase the question. Do you think advice or do you think record keepers are making too much on startup plans? No, no, no. Right. [37:30] JD: I mean it's Chad, but they're making 1% on a startup. Everyone seems to forget that. [37:39] Chad: That roar. [37:40] Mark: Great. [37:43] Justin: The guys like empower who strategically do not want to be in the startup space and they price it accordingly. I think it's a different answer. And there's a few of those like that. [37:52] Chad: They're still. There's no way they're profitable. So JD and I spent an internal meeting for an hour plus today, two hours, talking about our time Spent as a company for a 350 person plan versus a 35 person plan. So we, I think these, I think these record keepers would say the same thing. Like in that small space on a 35 person startup, they're spending just as much, maybe even more time than they are on a 35 person $1 million plan. And they're making nothing in that space. So even if they're trying to bill and creating pricing that gets them a little revenue, it's still not enough in my mind. Now are they perhaps overpriced on the other side to make up for that? Yes. And I think that that perhaps is the issue that we have as an [38:40] JD: industry related to that. [38:43] Justin: It's, you know, the volume of large plans versus the volume of small plans, you know, that they have to subsidize. [38:53] JD: That's true, actually related to that. [38:58] Justin: I'm gonna stop right now. [39:00] JD: Will Hackler said, oh, not now. Like record keepers, I'm going to do your voice for you, Will. Not now. Record keepers were getting a lot of hidden fees, but not since 408b2 is that true. Do you really feel as though that since 482 and 404A5 came along that somehow our industry has somehow radically changed in terms of the structure of creating revenue? Because I don't think it has. [39:29] Justin: I don't know. But I mean, I could see where it has. I mean, where they were hiding all their fees, now they can't. And now, I mean, when I wasn't, you know, part of the company that long ago. But when did that trend kind of downstream start taking effect? [39:40] Chad: Was it after Sherry nailed it? [39:44] JD: Zero change in pricing? Just one paper. [39:46] Chad: Sherry, you say downstream, Justin, I don't think there's been downstream when it came to disclosure. I think there's been some compression, but I don't think it had anything to do with disclosure. Disclosure. I think they just essentially came out and said, yeah, we're getting revenue from here, here, here and here. And someone mentioned Empower earlier. If we talked about transparency, when fee disclosure came out, people cleaning things up. Well, Empower then flipped the script, what, five years after 482 and said, all right, now we're going to make people pay for shelf space again and nobody's going to question us on it when we create the Power Select. And so they did it. They went exactly back to what they were doing. [40:20] JD: That was gnarly. That was so gnarly. [40:22] Chad: And nobody balked at it. [40:24] JD: I think we're actually coming. Chad and I have talked about this before, I think we're coming full circle and I think that 482 and 404A5 where yes, nothing more than more paper and disclosure. I think you can say that the industry as a whole may be notched down. I think there's stats to show that the fees kind of notched down a little bit, but in reality, in the micro to small space, it hasn't changed. And that kind of ties into what you were talking about earlier. They weren't making enough to begin with. Like no one was ripping clients off in the small to micro space. Yeah, yeah, it wasn't happening. There wasn't enough assets to make it happen. And so. But what I think now you're seeing is a pushback to, okay, we're going to be transparent, but there's nothing that stops us from having proprietary requirements or a fixed income or a fixed account or a guaranteed account that's of our own proprietary nature or, or this or that. So watch out. It's kind of coming all back around. [41:23] Mark: I think I will, I will be honest though. I think transparency is. It's a big stretch because it's there, but you got to find it, you got to know. [41:34] Chad: Can't make sense. [41:35] Mark: If you, if you sat down with participant, they still don't know. I mean, I get imagine Justin Chatfield saying, well, you get proposals and you're like even looking at that, you're going to. If that goes to a client or an advisor, there's so many areas you have to pay attention to to rip that thing up and make sure you know where all the fees are coming from. [41:55] Chad: So I would say the word transparency [41:58] Mark: should not be utilized as much as it is because it's not as transparent as one must. One should be, hey, if someone in [42:05] JD: the audience doesn't do a question with video, I'm going to get super pissed and I'm going to have pch Come on. Nvidia. So nobody. [42:13] Chad: Josh brings up a good point too. [42:15] Speaker E: JD does anyone have the count? Because I bought this brand new battery UPS for like it's a power strip and it turned off, so I lost [42:28] Chad: the count for a drink. [42:32] Speaker E: I lost my computer. I actually had to reboot. [42:34] JD: No, that's the old Shannon. Thought you were sleeping. [42:39] Mark: No, no, no. [42:40] Speaker E: I turned a light on and my computer shut off because I bought this new thing. Don't buy shit from Amazon. It all sucks. [42:46] JD: Whoa. [42:47] Chad: Telling me that for years B. JD [42:50] JD: is going full Zen on us tonight. I don't know about that. [42:55] Mark: To answer your question, no I have no idea what the count is. [42:57] Speaker E: All right, I'm gonna give JD5. [43:00] Mark: No, Justin, you have three. [43:02] JD: By the way. One. Shannon. Shannon or everybody? One of the reasons that we have no guests this week and have moved to this format is I was on guest overload last week with Shannon and Amanda. Like, I feel like I. I feel like I couldn't get in a word edge wise and I just need a little bit of a, you know, to Greg's point, a little Zen moment, a little break from the guest. [43:27] Chad: JD's talking about getting a word in. [43:30] Mark: Now you know how we feel. By we, I mean the other two. Metallic. [43:34] JD: Shannon says what? Shannon, it wasn't you, sweetheart. It was not you. And we love Amanda. [43:42] Mark: Jd. [43:42] Speaker E: Thank you, Amanda. Should we throw that picture up of her and her kid here? [43:47] JD: If you have it? [43:47] Chad: It's cool. Look at Galex. Stuck it out till 7pm last week. Trust me, I did too. We had like 10. [43:53] Justin: Holding on strong. [43:54] JD: The two hour drunk fest. [43:56] Chad: Two questions that came through. One funny one good. That I'm really interested in the funny one, which is leading to a story. What's the most interesting body of water you've swam in and what made you decide to take the plunge? [44:10] JD: I've been ignoring that every time Josh asks it. He thinks it's so funny. Okay, everyone. We do. We used to do a big thing every year where we would get drunk and play softball on the beach or otl. And it was tradition for me to run in my swim trunks. Hammered, by the way. By the end of the day. Absolutely. Shit face hand. [44:29] Chad: That's an understatement. [44:31] JD: And. And which was acceptable at this venue. You were supposed to be hammered. And. And I would run into this like it was a little small pond at the beach that sewer water kind of funneled into and it had a nice layer of green algae on the top. [44:49] Chad: And that was just all sewer water. [44:51] JD: I just dive in every year. It felt good. I wish I could do it right now because I get sick after that. Jd, huh? [44:57] Justin: Did you ever get sick? [44:58] JD: No. I grew up surfing in the Santa Cruz San Lorenzo river mouth, which was basically a dump of sewage coming out of the river. So my body has become immune to sewage. [45:10] Speaker G: Gotcha. [45:11] Mark: True story. [45:12] Chad: Okay. It was so nasty. I was looking for a picture because I know I have one in here. [45:17] Justin: Are the the rest of us answering that question or can we move on to the next one? [45:20] Chad: We can move on. [45:21] Justin: None of us Retireaholic show goes back on the road. [45:25] JD: Will there be an updated couch ooh well, that's interesting. [45:31] Mark: We don't get to choose couches on the road. [45:34] JD: We don't take our couch on the road. And so we always rely on the conference to pull something off. But when we start filming back in a normal retireholics non zoom flow, yes, we will be on the old dirty same couch that we've always been on. It's still at the office. [45:54] Speaker E: I'd rather us shoot up that little conference table. [45:58] Chad: Oh, the tall conference table. I like that one. [46:00] JD: I like the couch though. [46:03] Chad: A question from Mike Webb, which I think Webb said he can only get on audio. How do you feel about 403B plans? Like them? Hate them. Somewhere in between. I think I might be more passionate about this than the rest of you guys. [46:18] JD: Well, go for it. Chad, you can start off, but I do have some opinions. [46:22] Chad: Well, I'm going to. I will say my opinion comes solely from an advisor TPA perspective. Winning 403 plans is hard. It's very, very difficult. Many of them are still set up in old individual annuity contracts. It is tough to get them out of those contracts. It is tough to get the money to move over. The record keeper is always frustrated if it's a $5 million plan that only 200,000 comes over. Yes, they are very difficult now, aside from them being incredibly difficult. And I envy, maybe not envy. I admire the advisors that go after them. It is rewarding to help those programs because they are outdated, they're overpriced, the participants are not getting any type of support. Participation is low. I mean, they're a shit show. And so when you spend the time to help, it feels good. [47:21] JD: I like it when Chad cusses. I'll add one to you on this kind of teach the advisor kind of genre. I, I agree with chad. I think 403B vehicles and the nonprofit companies that sponsor them are such good people and doing such great things. I mean, that goes without being said, however, and I'm going to be a bit of an asshole now. Selling a 403 can be more difficult than selling a 401k. And the reason being is that 403bs are typically run by committees. And these committees tend to be a bunch of people that are from different walks of life. And so you end up going in and talking to the executive director or the HR and they fall in love with you and they want to go with you as the new advisor, what have you. And then you've got to go in front of the committee and convince all these random people that you're the place to go. Also, 403 companies, I'm using the word for plan. They're frugal. They. They are watching the bottom line, they're very interested in the money, is they're very frugal. And. And so that's my bummer with that, is that it's a long sell, it's a hard sell, it's a cheap sell. But you know what? Back to Chad. They're good people. They deserve it. And so along those same lines, I think. [48:48] Mark: I think what Chad and JD what you guys are referring to are, are existing things, existing programs. Now, what I've come to realize that in the 403B marketplace that a lot of times a 401K is just fine. And because of the advantages that you might get with the 403B might not actually be applicable to the demographics of that particular nonprofit. And they think initially I have to have a 403B. But you go in, you educate, you show them additional options and flexibility and why a 401k is still can work. A lot of times we're not even going down that route. So I guess there's another question about maybe 403B needs to be updated a bit or something needs to be changed to give the nonprofit world a little bit more love and more reason why they should utilize it. [49:45] JD: Josh, I agree with you. The new rule going forward is you cannot spell the prohibited. [49:50] Justin: This is Josh, by the way. [49:52] JD: Oh, no, I know. [49:53] Chad: Well, not you guys. It's the guests. [49:55] Mark: J.D. we know. [49:56] JD: You know, good point. You can't spell the prohibitive word. PCH says hi, Josh. As he eats his $50 hot dog. [50:03] Chad: I saw Nicole try to get underneath the camera and run away, but she was clearly Shannon. [50:10] JD: Shannon, if you promise to type it one more time. One more time, I will say, Brandon, let's spin that wheel of ice. You looking us like you don't have one. [50:30] Chad: Mark, Mark. [50:32] JD: You know what, guys? [50:33] Mark: I was kind of hoping that maybe because this is a different show that you guys are going to be kind [50:37] Chad: and do something funny. [50:39] JD: But you know, he's got one. You know he's got one right there. [50:43] Speaker E: It takes like 35 minute minutes to render it. [50:48] JD: Were you? Brandon, I have a question for you. Was it on purpose last week that you gave that shamanda a pass on the wheel of ice or did you just were too lazy to do it bring that graphic up? [51:04] Speaker E: So I had both ready to go. [51:05] JD: I click the wrong one. [51:07] Chad: Oh, you clicked the wrong button. [51:09] JD: It's just chance Just pure chance. [51:12] Mark: I wanna, I wanna. [51:12] Speaker E: But I was gonna. I was gonna let the movement take me or the moment take me. I was like, I was gonna. Like. I wasn't certain who I was gonna click, but I thought I was clicking them. [51:23] JD: Yeah, Josh, I'm not good at the Smearnoff. [51:26] Mark: That was not good at all. [51:28] Justin: You can't ignore here. One of them is better. Next head of the dol. Fred Reese or Nevin Adams? [51:36] Mark: Nevin. [51:38] Chad: Sorry, Fred. Come on, you got to answer. [51:41] Speaker E: That's retiring. [51:43] JD: Think about that. Yeah, I. I feel like Nevin is underestimated. Maybe isn't the right word because I know he's very well respected and whatever, but. Yeah, Nevin is an icon, bro. He knows everything about everything and is a balanced person and. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm going. [52:06] Chad: I had a super detailed, tough, tough question. I remember JD told me to write Nevin. And my initial response before getting to know Nevin was like, I need to send this directly to like a practicing ERISA attorney. And immediately Nevin had a response to me in like five minutes. He knew it off top of his head. Like, I gained so much respect for Ara. Brian Nevin when I spent time with those folks. They know this shit. And that's why I immediately say it is because Fred knows the business very, very well. I think Nevin and Brian see the business as what it will be in five years. And I think that's the difference. [52:43] Speaker E: When we talked about Brian. Should we play the video? [52:47] Chad: Oh, Butterbeer. [52:49] JD: No, no. I wanted to tackle Brad's question on proposals, but Brad. Because Will was willing to throw a video on the end of his. Brandon, let's bring on Will Hackler. I mean, who knows what this guy looks like. It could be creepy. It could be in his weirdo bedroom. I mean, who knows? [53:08] Chad: Could be your dad too. [53:10] JD: He says, do you think IRS tol are actually. I guess I should let him ask the question when he comes on. So while we try to get Will on, let's go ahead and tackle Brad's question. Or he's coming quickly. Related Pro. What's the biggest mistake you see in 401k proposals? Hang on a second, Will. I think in 401k proposals, the biggest mistake is numbers are funny things. And so if you're looking at, say, the average fund cost, I think that can be a big mistake because there's lots of games being played with that. But we'll leave that for another date. We. What's going on? My video, dude, you joined us by video you got your ASPA shirt. [53:54] Chad: Nerd alert. [53:55] JD: Nerd alert. Love it. Love it. What's your question, bro? [54:01] Speaker F: I just. I hear you guys talking about all this stuff, and my question is, do you actually believe that the IRS and DOL are actually working during this pandemic right now? I don't believe it. Okay. I have seen much less, you know, activity, correspondence, things going on, so I don't think they're actually working. And I have a couple of friends that have some government employees, spouses, and things like that. And they say, I knew they weren't working much, but now that they're home working, they don't do a damn thing. [54:38] Mark: It's because they only get dial up Internet. [54:45] JD: I heard from my wife was working with not our corporate accountant, but our personal accountant, and he said that the IRS is just because everyone's gone home for the most part. And you know how much paper runs through those entities, right? Like massive amounts of paper. He says they are so far behind on, you know, tax returns and what have you that it's a total different world we're living in. So I do believe that Covid has impacted them. I'm with Mark. I know Mark was making a joke, but it's half serious. I don't think the government is really, especially the irs. DOL is up to speed when it comes to tech and especially. Have you ever talked with. Oh, I shouldn't go there. But people that work for those companies that they're not really up on tech, they don't have Instagram accounts. If you work at the DOL and the irs, they're not really up on the. That kind of stuff. So, yeah, I think that they're working, but they're working at a snail's pace would be my answer to that. [55:45] Speaker F: They were working at a snail's pace before J.D. okay, now they've gone backwards [55:54] JD: to be able to climb up the wall. [55:56] Speaker F: Now it's just falling down. [55:58] JD: So it's a short and fat snail, [56:00] Justin: you know, so just. [56:02] JD: That's a plug for you. Blake. [56:03] Mark: Yeah, buddy. [56:04] Chad: Coincidence. [56:06] Justin: We have a prospect we're working on right now, and they just received a notice in the mail from the IRS saying they're gonna find them $87,000. [56:15] Chad: Justin. Justin. [56:18] Justin: Yeah? [56:19] Chad: Be truthful. [56:21] Mark: Can't hear you, buddy. [56:23] Chad: What is it? A prospect? [56:27] Justin: No, it's client. [56:29] Chad: It's a client. It's a client that got a. [56:32] Mark: A. [56:32] Chad: It's real, but it is not a legitimate fine for $85,000. [56:37] Justin: 7. [56:38] Chad: Justin called me this morning. He's like, Should I tell JD about this? Like this. This is not. This is not legit. You don't need to tell them why they're working. [56:47] Speaker E: Trying to get money, I gotta say, from. [56:50] JD: Did bail on us or he's back. [56:53] Speaker E: From an IT perspective, JD pretty much. Other than the NSA and the FBI, everything is like 1989, right? [57:05] JD: Totally on dot matrix. That's what they work on. Yeah, for sure. [57:09] Chad: Yes. By the way, that's the third person that said they can't hear me. I requested a new mic last week. [57:15] Justin: Perhaps they hear you better when you're a pickle. They say. [57:19] JD: Well, before you leave us, Will. What? [57:21] Mark: Will, time out. Time out. What's in there? What's in the koozie there? [57:25] JD: Yeah, that's what I was asking Mark. [57:27] Chad: Oh, all good. [57:29] Speaker F: I'm trying to save calories, so I'm [57:31] Chad: just going with the old infusions. I'm all about MC Ultra. You're speaking to the audience. [57:38] Mark: Is that like lime flavors? [57:39] JD: What's the confusions? [57:40] Chad: It's. [57:41] Speaker F: It's lime and prickly pear cactus. [57:44] Mark: Whoa. [57:46] Chad: Yeah. Hey, hey, Mark. [57:47] JD: I'm gonna restrain my comments on that one. [57:50] Chad: I'll be on those. [57:52] Speaker G: You know, I figured out. [57:53] Speaker F: I did the math, JD. I figured, you know, this has 7 less calories than the Coors Light, so for every 13 I drink, I can have a 14th for free. [58:04] JD: That makes sense. That makes total sense. That's. [58:07] Mark: That makes fantastic. [58:08] JD: That makes total sense for me. I. I appreciate those numbers. That would have taken the IRS and [58:14] Mark: DOL at least three months to come up with that calculation. [58:17] JD: Hey, less, I'm. We're not going to comment letter from [58:22] Speaker F: the IRS and DOL on that calculation. [58:25] JD: I haven't been watching the chat bar and I don't want to do a two hour show again this week. But let's leave Will on for two seconds here. And Mark, can you do one lamer game before we go to the CBC Champion? [58:41] Chad: Yes, I've got. [58:42] Mark: I can do two real quick. I think it'd be fast. [58:45] JD: Okay. [58:46] Mark: All right. My first one. Will, you're familiar with the game, right? [58:50] Speaker F: Yes, sir. [58:51] Mark: Okay. My first one are. I'll call them vanity license plates, but you know, customized license plates. First off, my first question. [59:03] Chad: Is it lamer? [59:04] Mark: Are you game? Do you have one also? And have you ever seen a really good one that maybe you laughed at? So, Chad, I'll start with you. [59:13] Chad: Yes, I've seen plenty of good ones. I like the ones that are written in reverse because it takes me like 35 minutes. To figure out. [59:20] Mark: It'd be awesome if we could hear you. [59:21] Chad: It'd be so much better. [59:23] JD: Damn it. [59:24] Chad: Damn it, Brandon. I like the ones that are written in reverse because it makes. It takes me a long time to figure out what they say. I still think it is lame. No, I do not have the 401k written on my license plate. [59:38] JD: Like, [59:40] Chad: this is a big problem for Fireholics robe guy. Holy. [59:44] Justin: That'd be amazing. [59:45] Chad: Thanks. Thanks, Lauren. [59:46] Mark: I'm going to do it, but I'm [59:47] Speaker F: going to go to Will. Will? [59:48] JD: Yeah, Will's our guest. You're gonna. [59:49] Chad: Yeah. [59:50] Speaker F: So, you know, this. This is a. This really strikes a chord with me. And I've. I've gotten a lot of flack for this, but I actually had ERPA on my plate when I got my HERPA designation. [1:00:04] JD: Oh, God. [1:00:05] Speaker E: Holy. [1:00:06] Chad: You just crossed into a new level [1:00:08] JD: above oh, God alert. [1:00:14] Mark: Do you have that. Do you have that tattooed on you as well? [1:00:17] Speaker F: I do not. I do not. And then I, you know, so jd, you and I had talked about this, so I'm actually, you know, we're a father son team in my organization too. And my father has ERPA on his plate too. However, because I had a lower enrollment number, I got the draw of erpa and he got ERPA too. [1:00:40] JD: Oh, nice. [1:00:41] Speaker F: Wow. [1:00:42] JD: And. And Mark, he has a life size tattoo of Sal Tripote on his back. [1:00:48] Speaker F: Yeah. [1:00:50] Mark: I promise, Will, that was not planted. That's. That was awesome. I love. [1:00:55] Speaker F: Somebody sent that to you. And I know there's a few people [1:00:57] Chad: of my, you know, in my area. [1:01:00] Speaker F: I know that's exactly what they say. I will bring this up, though. I no longer have that plate because, like jd, I have two daughters. They started driving the vehicle. I did not want the vanity plate. I did not want them driving around on that vanity plate. So I got rid of it. [1:01:17] Mark: David, we'll be real quick. Jd, what are your thoughts? [1:01:23] JD: I don't know. [1:01:24] Speaker E: JD and I had to share the Jeep Cherokee of my dad that had. I love my. [1:01:31] JD: My employees. I love my employees. [1:01:34] Speaker E: And an S. And everybody would stop us and go, well, what's your plate mean? You'd be like, it's. I love my employees. It was my dad's license plate. [1:01:44] JD: Our competitor in the Bay area, Eric Peterson, TPA from Hicks Pension, his license plate says, got 401K. It's kind of cool for a sales guy. Will's just taken off. He's gonna go grab another. He's gonna go grab another. [1:02:00] Speaker F: I just bought these. Chad. [1:02:02] Mark: Yeah, I saw Those. [1:02:05] Chad: What's wrong with you guys? [1:02:06] Speaker G: Hey, Mark. [1:02:08] JD: Mark. [1:02:09] Mark: Yeah. [1:02:09] JD: Lame. Lame. Or game Will Hackler's beer selection. [1:02:13] Mark: Oh, super, super game on that, baby. I'm into it. All right, Justin, you're gonna. You're gonna answer last. Customize license plates. Lamer. [1:02:22] JD: Game. [1:02:23] Mark: And then I'll do my last one. [1:02:25] Justin: People do their shit. It's fine. [1:02:27] Mark: All right, My last one here. And this is just. This is. I shouldn't even do it, but fruit in cereal. Let me give you an example. I like to put bananas and frosted Flakes. I don't put bananas in any other cereal choice. I just happen to really like bananas and Frosted Flakes. Is it lame or are you game? Putting fruit? It could be anything you want inside of cereal. Milk. [1:02:50] JD: We'll go to Will, but Michael Webb says game, and then he puts audio after it. Like, don't put my video on. Go ahead, Will. [1:03:00] Speaker G: Go ahead, Will. [1:03:01] Chad: Cereal. [1:03:02] Speaker F: I'm game. If you want to, like, try to healthy up your frosted Flakes, then good for you, Mark. [1:03:08] Mark: Thank you. Thank you, Chad. [1:03:10] Chad: Lame. [1:03:11] Mark: Wow. [1:03:12] Chad: Gesture of the fruit changes. How are you going to try to [1:03:14] Justin: healthy up cereal, man? It's all shit. [1:03:16] Mark: I'm not trying to healthy it up. It just adds a really good flavor. Okay? J.D. [1:03:21] Chad: doesn't work for me. [1:03:22] JD: Hey, listen, if I'm doing oatmeal, which [1:03:26] Mark: I would never do, does not apply to oatmeal. It's cereal and milk. [1:03:31] JD: Captain Crunch, Frosted Flakes. Not gonna happen. I don't need that shit on my cereal. [1:03:35] Mark: All right, well, you know what they say. You know what they say. [1:03:41] JD: All right, Will. [1:03:42] Justin: It's a fun question that came up. [1:03:44] Speaker F: Thank you, gentlemen. [1:03:45] JD: Appreciate it. Thanks for. Thanks for hopping on and keep drinking those shitty ass alcoholic drinks. [1:03:54] Speaker E: Heads up, J.D. i added Michael Webb's audio because he has some real audio. [1:03:58] JD: He's saying audio. Oh, is that a thing? Okay, we could do that. [1:04:03] Speaker E: Can you talk? [1:04:04] JD: Mike, can you hear me? [1:04:05] Speaker G: Retireholics. Yes. [1:04:07] JD: There we go. [1:04:09] Speaker G: My stupid camera. [1:04:12] Chad: I thought your boss. [1:04:14] Speaker G: One computer dies, second computer comes, no camera. I have to go. I have to be on a panelist presentation this morning without video. Everybody else is on video. [1:04:26] JD: Lame of me. [1:04:28] Speaker E: I can fix that for you. [1:04:29] JD: Yeah, I thought audio was a. I was Hardware problem. [1:04:34] Speaker G: Can you fix that for me? [1:04:36] Speaker E: Yes, yes, yes, I can. [1:04:37] Speaker G: He can. [1:04:39] JD: Brandon will be your producer. [1:04:41] Chad: Let him be at your doorstep in like 5 minutes. [1:04:43] Mark: Keep telling me how we still can't hear you. [1:04:47] JD: Wait, did you say Michael in five minutes? [1:04:51] Chad: I said Brandon will have a camera at your doorstep, [1:04:57] Speaker E: you can use your iPhone or your Android phone as a camera and attach it to your computer with an app. [1:05:06] Mark: 10 bucks. [1:05:07] Speaker E: I like, [1:05:09] Speaker G: I actually could probably use. Well, I feedback all over you right now. If I tried to use it now. But the problem is I get my links in my. I get my links to Zoom. I thought of that. Actually. I get my links to Zoom in my work email, though, and I have to have the app added on my work platform for security purposes on my smartphone. And I don't have it added yet because I never thought I'd have to do it because I always thought I'd have a computer with a camera. [1:05:32] Speaker E: So there's an app you download to your phone and then you download it to your computer, and your computer will see your phone as a camera. [1:05:43] JD: Michael, I want you to know that we have a retireholics group text that goes down between all of us. And I used the acronym sep referring or I asked. Mark had a question around why I referred to SEP when I was comparing MEPs and PAPs and GOPes to SEPs. And he said, no, no, no. SEP is a, you know, simplified employer plan. And I said, yeah, yeah, it is. [1:06:12] Mark: That's not what I said or how it was said. [1:06:15] JD: You said, what the fuck is this? Why are you using this acronym? [1:06:18] Mark: That didn't say that either. [1:06:21] JD: All right, Mark explained everyone what you said. [1:06:24] Mark: No, I just said, hey, J.D. you put SEP 401K and you shot back what it was. And I go, I've never used it. I've never heard of using that way. Most of the folks that I work with might see SEP and just immediately refer to the actual SEPs that existed there out there, as opposed to a traditional 401k plan. [1:06:45] JD: So the way you just described that and the way that I interpret the [1:06:50] Mark: way you're making that, I was asking you like I was some dickhead or something, too. [1:06:55] JD: That's my crazy mind. I basically even the way you just said that. I still believe in what I said originally. No. So I go online and I want to show these boys a SEP Meps, Paps kind of article to show them that, like, no, no, no. This is pretty common terminology. And I am reading through this phenomenal article that is for shrm and it's describing the different things. And I'm like, I love this article. I'm going to send along to the boys. I scroll up to the top, Michael. Mike, you're the fucking author of this thing. You did a great job with that. [1:07:32] Speaker G: I love my acronyms you did a phenomenon. [1:07:36] Mark: Didn't they realize that one was taken? [1:07:38] JD: Make up a new one. [1:07:39] Chad: Jeez. That was probably around before Simplified Employer Pension came into play. [1:07:48] JD: Oh, I don't know. But anyways, Michael, I want you to know I had no idea that it was you that wrote it. And I thought it was a really cool article. And I said, okay, let me see who wrote this thing? And it was you. So I was so, like, pleasantly surprised. I've said this over and over again. You continue to put out such great content. Why don't you, for us, since we have you on audio? You attended Ari's little. What do they call it? The Bunch. The group, the Bunch. The thing to today. [1:08:16] Speaker G: That 401k virtual bunch. [1:08:18] JD: Yeah, that's Virtual Bunch. How did that go? And what do you think was the main big takeaway from that? [1:08:24] Speaker G: Well, the real big takeaway from that was that Greg Greenfield really knows how to ask very obscure football questions. Because we had a guy on who was a former football player, and he actually asked him about the 1966 Florida Florida State game, which, of course has to be at least 10 years before Greg was even born. I'd imagine something like that. But 1966 is definitely before I was born. So I'm assuming that Greg, who obviously is another. Another champion of the Chad here is probably. If you ever want to do retireaholics on sports, which of course you won't, J.D. [1:09:10] JD: he's probably Mark's dream. [1:09:12] Speaker G: But my takeaway was, yes, I definitely learned a lot more about obscure sporting events today from that chat. But it's interesting you bring that up, only because I think. I don't know why. I mean, that was the thing that Ari's doing. I'd love to see. What I'd love to see is a lot more of. Not that I'm looking for everybody to go out there and copy Katrina, but I'd love to see people just, you know, I think this is. This stream is incredible. And of course, all the related stuff to it, like, you know, the recordings and stuff like that is incredible because it makes retirement fun. You know, I mean, it really does. I mean, how much out there. I mean, I had a laugh because I was going back and forth with. Actually with Greg today. There was a lot. There's a law firm out there, and I won't say who they are, but they put. They put song lyrics in the titles of some of their compliance articles. And I'm like. And we were. And Greg and I were debating because it was some obscure Lyric today, we think it was by the Bodines, if anybody ever heard of that band from way back when, but it was Skrillic. They put in their title today. And we're like, yeah, there's a law firm who's trying to treat, not treat this like it's like retirement is just 100% deathly serious. And I think that's how you guys succeed so well with this, you know, this phenomenon that I call retirelics is, you know, you're just not, you're not, [1:10:43] JD: you don't, you don't take, you don't [1:10:44] Speaker G: have to take everything. You know, we know it's retirement, we know it's important, but you don't have to take everything like 1000% seriously. And, you know, I think a lot of the content out there is just sleep inducing. And that's why I try. And I don't think I succeed all the time, but when my writing, I try to make it so that if you're reading it, you don't fall asleep, [1:11:05] JD: you know, And I didn't get that from your pieces, Michael. I thought they're very serious and I'm kidding. [1:11:15] Speaker G: You use them as an insomnia cure. [1:11:17] JD: J.D. no, I'm kidding. [1:11:18] Chad: That's the stuff that keeps me up. [1:11:20] JD: Michael, obviously, obviously we agree with you. And I think that there's a, there's a trick to the balance, right, of, of having fun. And I would probably argue that any of us that are trying to have fun is 70% serious and 30 or. Excuse me, yeah, 70% serious and 30% having fun. And I get that from Ari stuff. I get that from your stuff. Ari's always chiming in on about a movie reference or a sports reference or. And so I think that that's cool. And so I like your thoughts, Mike. I like that as an industry, we're starting to get out of this kind of suit and tie stereotype. And I think we need to take it right now. It's inter industry and we need to make sure that it's client facing and not be afraid to show our clients and our prospects that we're real people that love what we do and have fun. I mean, how many people tune in to stuff for their work on 7 o' clock east coast time, you know, on a Thursday night? It's people that love what they're doing. And I think that our clients would respect that and love that and be inspired by that a lot more than the country club membership, having suit and tie wearing wire house, you know, financial advisor no offense if you check all those boxes, but yeah, the brand needs to change. So we're with you, Mike. We're with you for sure. [1:12:49] Speaker G: I know that wasn't a question, but I have a lot of questions stacked up in the queue, but we might [1:12:58] JD: have time for one since you join us by audio and then I want to vote. So, Michael, give us a quick question if you've got one and if not. [1:13:05] Speaker G: Yeah, I think the best one, which Chad already answered in the chat, but I think it was a good one for everybody. If you were. If you were. If it was just you guys, who were the contestants on Survivor? No one else, who do you think would win and why? [1:13:22] Justin: Oh, normally I'd say me, but Chad's wife watches naked and afraid and all those shows like it's going out Survivor, not Survivor. [1:13:33] Mark: We can count Brandon in this, right? Because I'm. [1:13:36] Speaker G: No, no, we can count. [1:13:38] Chad: Yeah. [1:13:38] Justin: Michael, can we count Brandon or no, by the way? [1:13:42] Speaker G: Well, that's up to you guys. I mean, I think. I think you should count Brandon. [1:13:45] Chad: That's Brandon. [1:13:45] Mark: Okay, Brandon. Brandon is my winner. I'm the first one out for sure. [1:13:49] Chad: I'm gonna die. [1:13:51] Mark: I got nothing. [1:13:52] Justin: What'd you say? [1:13:54] Chad: We're eating Mark by day three. [1:13:56] Mark: Oh, he's Maybe even day two. [1:13:57] Chad: I'll just give up. Yeah, no, that's fine. It's. It's Brandon for sure. Brandon, what was the trail you hiked? How long did you stay out without normal food and live life for that matter? [1:14:14] JD: Brandon's on me. [1:14:16] Speaker E: I did the JMT, which is like 270 miles. [1:14:20] Chad: Well, what we did. [1:14:24] JD: How many of you guys have actually watched Survivor season after season? Justin. [1:14:29] Chad: Season after season every week. [1:14:32] JD: You guys are missing a key component. I agree with you. If it was a. If it was a survival game, Brandon would fare very well. We would all be crushed because he lives in that world. But it's actually a game of manipulation. Relationship with Outsmart, not play. JD yes, and I can lie to someone straight to their fucking face if it's going to get me through to the Finnick. No, I'm to trying. [1:14:59] Chad: JD let's conclude with this. Justin has seen it. Nobody else in this group has. But if we're going to talk about nationally televised television shows. I have been a contestant on a nationally televised show and I did manipulate myself into a win. [1:15:22] Justin: And how did you. [1:15:23] Chad: MTV Dating Game Show. [1:15:25] JD: Yeah. [1:15:26] Chad: For those of you that want to dig something up, see if you can find me on an MTV show. [1:15:30] Mark: Don't lie, dude. You were on Jeopardy. [1:15:33] JD: Chad was on MTV Dating show. I am going to back your vote, though, for Brandon, because I feel like what would happen on. On a Survivor with Brandon and me is I would think I was manipulating Brandon and we would make it to the final two, and then he would pull the knife out of my back to win. To win the game. Intellectually tricked me into whatever because he knew what was going on. [1:15:55] Speaker G: So. [1:15:56] JD: So Brandon would be the winner. [1:15:57] Speaker E: I think as long as JD could get through the first round, he would win. [1:16:03] JD: All right, CBC vote. CBC vote. Brandon, who's your CBC vote? [1:16:11] Speaker E: I always got to go with Lauren. Ms. Brandrup. [1:16:15] JD: This is Brandrup. Mark. [1:16:18] Mark: Geez. I was trying to pay attention as much as I could. I forget what's our rule here? Can people win twice? [1:16:26] Justin: Not bad. [1:16:26] Chad: Can't go back to back. Do you even remember who won last week? Mark? [1:16:33] Speaker G: You were fairly good. [1:16:34] Mark: What I ate yesterday for dinner. [1:16:36] Speaker F: Okay. [1:16:43] Mark: Has Greg won? [1:16:45] JD: Yeah, but he's. Yeah, he's. He can win again. [1:16:50] Mark: Okay, well, that's not. [1:16:52] Speaker G: It didn't win last week. [1:16:53] JD: Wow. You're just gonna be political and just give it to a new person every week? Yeah, someone deserves it. They deserve it. [1:16:59] Mark: I just haven't been good enough watching. [1:17:02] Chad: Remember Michael can. Michael can chat right now. So, yeah, let's all not vote. [1:17:07] Mark: I'm gonna give it to the guy sitting over Justin's shoulder. Josh. [1:17:13] Chad: Josh got a vote. [1:17:15] JD: I'm not voting for fucking Josh. All right, Justin. Who's that? [1:17:21] Chad: I'm going. [1:17:21] Mark: Will Hackler. [1:17:22] JD: Huh? [1:17:23] Mark: Will. [1:17:24] JD: Yeah. My vote is for Will Oswell because of his. His shitty choice in alcohol and his T shirt that he's wearing and his fucking license plates like, oh, my God, what a 401k nerd he's. [1:17:42] Chad: By the way, I hate to. I hate to burst the bubble. We said you must be in attendance to win. Will has already logged off. [1:17:49] JD: No, he's not. He just commented. [1:17:52] Justin: I got the video. [1:17:57] Chad: Damn. It's an alphabetical. It's an alphabetical order. You're not shown there. [1:18:03] JD: I'm claiming, Will, congratulations, Will. You have won the Chat Bar champion, which you maybe know this, but it means we will send you a shitty hat. Probably some cheesy shirt that doesn't fit. Some stickers maybe, but I need to replace this shirt. You will. [1:18:22] Chad: You will. [1:18:22] JD: You will receive all of these wonderful gifts sometime in 2022. So stand by the mailbox. Thank you, everyone, for tuning in. It's been another episode of Retreat.