John Ruth: Downside Protection & Options in 401(k)s | Retireholics

[0:00] JD: Prohibitive word things. [0:03] Chad: Well, is that. [0:04] JD: They hit it yet? [0:06] Chad: Oh, look at that. Justin's got one on the board. [0:10] JD: I think Brandon can reset it. [0:12] Chad: Brandon. [0:13] Mark: Sorry, buddy. [0:14] JD: Shit. [0:14] Mark: Sorry, Brandon. [0:18] JD: Oh, Justin. [0:20] Mark: I didn't touch it that time, by the way. [0:22] John Ruth: Is this around the horn? You just give out points when you feel like it's. [0:26] JD: I've always. [0:27] Mark: John, I like where you're going with that. So JD fights me on this all the time about doing stuff like that. I think we should do that. [0:35] Chad: I agree. [0:36] John Ruth: My idea. So points, I think. [0:40] Mark: No, that's negative. Points for asking for points. So you're already. Yeah. [0:46] John Ruth: This is golf, right? [0:47] Mark: Low score wins, the lowest score wins. Right? [0:51] Chad: Speaking of golf, there's three people in this chat room that are going to play for a little team building event tomorrow. [0:57] Mark: I. I can't go anymore. [1:00] Chad: That's a work event then, right? That's a lie. Mark. [1:03] Mark: I scheduled a call. So sorry. [1:06] Chad: I'm looking at your calendar right now. [1:07] JD: Feel like Brandon's. What's going on, everybody? What's going on? What's up? Can I. Can I ask you a little question? Do you like 401k? Do you like pina coladas? Do you like your beer with your 401k? Because if you do, you're in heaven, my friend. This is beer smashed together with 401k. Frickin Utopia. It's another episode of Retireholics. Welcome to the show. I'm here with my buddies, Chad Johansen, Mark Palmeni, Justin McNeil, and a guest to be named a little bit later. [2:14] Chad: It says his name on the screen and he's sitting there, by the way, [2:18] JD: just case you're curious, I want to do a big buildup and apparently Merry Christmas from Santa. Jd let's do a little housekeeping. Housekeeping. [2:30] Chad: Housekeeping. [2:32] Mark: No, thank you. Sleeping. [2:36] JD: Make sure you're in gallery view. That's the best way to see everybody at the same time. It's highly recommended. I say this all the time now, but it is so, so true. The chat bar is the bomb. Make sure you're checking out the chat bar. Expand that little sucker, put it over Mark's face so you can see everyone that's chatting. And when you do that, make sure you're chatting to all the attendees and not just the panelists because everybody wants to see what you're talking about. Prohibitive word. The prohibitive word for today will be invest. And just so you know, that means. That means if you put an ing on the end of that or a ment on the End of that. Or a. Or on the end of that. Those all count. Okay, so one last time. [3:26] Mark: Crap. I didn't get a penalty drink. Give me a minute. [3:30] Chad: Oh, my rookie move. No robe, no penalty drink. [3:35] JD: All right, well, introducing our guest. He is in the. The money management business. The investment. Oh, geez. I already did it. All right, I got it. [3:45] Chad: Oh, Mark's not even here to give you the. [3:48] JD: I'll owe that one. I'll do that here in a second. I'm drinking some nice little stuff here. And so he figured what better way to brand his company, to get out there and talk to the masses than to come on a beer drinking and alcohol swilling little circus. So welcome to the show, the CEO, the founder of build, John Ruth. What's going on, my dude? [4:11] John Ruth: Hey, jd. Good to be with you guys. [4:14] Chad: Good to have you, John. Good to have you. [4:16] JD: Thanks for being here, man. Somebody on the Internet wanted me to ask you if you're related to Babe. I guess you've never heard that one. [4:23] John Ruth: He hadn't showed up for Thanksgiving for a while. [4:26] JD: All right. Oh, that's going to be rough. Pay attention to this word. I don't want to drink a lot from that bottle. So let's dive right into subject number one. And I know it sounds a little cliche, and it's not my intention to make this the Build infomercial, but I do think it's important that all of our audience understands what it is and what you're trying to do. And we can kind of divert into some other conversations as well. But for now, give me the quick version on what exactly Build is, and then I'm going to prompt you to. Why the heck did you start this sucker? [5:02] John Ruth: Great. Yeah. Build Asset Manager. We build funds and solutions that go inside of wrap products. Our DNA is downside protection, passive upside, participation in equity markets. And the goal is to give investors a smoother ride to retirement, something that they can have confidence in. [5:22] Mark: Can you say that in a way that Justin understands? [5:25] JD: Ooh, did we get him? You owe a drink there, buddy. Nice. [5:29] Chad: What? [5:31] Mark: I didn't catch that one. That wasn't me. [5:33] JD: I thought that was flawless. [5:34] Chad: Sucking at your job. [5:36] JD: Flawless elevator pitch. [5:37] Chad: That's all I heard there. [5:39] John Ruth: Where's the flag I want to replay? [5:43] JD: You can always go back and check later. [5:45] John Ruth: He said investor. [5:47] JD: Yes, I know. [5:49] Mark: I was gonna say I wanna give it to Brandon. [5:51] Chad: Brandon. Hey, Brandon. [5:53] JD: Okay. [5:53] Mark: It's my job. [5:57] John Ruth: I'm waiting for you. [5:59] JD: My understanding, John, is that you were an advisor. Chad had met you out There in the Midwest and now in the course of just over a year, you've got some 30 plus people. I mean, you're going legit at this Build thing. You're all in. Why on earth would you leave the cushy little life of an advisor into this? I mean, you're going to play against the fidelities and the Oppenheimers and the massive people in this world. Where did you grow the confidence and why did you make this decision? [6:35] John Ruth: Well, you're right. So I was an advisor for 10 years, an employee benefits financial services company. I specialize mostly in our 401k division. And you know, meeting with the people inside those plans, this is where the word choices get really important here. [6:54] Chad: Yeah, it's hard to work around this one. [6:57] John Ruth: Meeting with clients, meeting with those plan participants. I got a sense that no matter what you do, blue collar, white collar, white coat, everyone works hard for their money. And some words that I caught myself saying probably too often in those down markets to the client was that it's just a paper loss. And I think that the realization was, in their shoes, there's no such thing. And it comes back to because they worked so hard for it and they've entrusted it to you. The vision then of how could we do something better was really just trying to imagine a mousetrap that included a lot of best features of solutions that I had come to believe in. So inside the DNA at Build is really a structured solution with a fixed income core and a passive equity overlay. I had seen a lot of strategies that were tactical. They're timing specialists or their rotation specialists. They'd failed me, our clients, the industry. This is my perspective, looking at it as an advisor. And I felt like we needed something that was more repeatable, more grounded in data. And so I've got to give a shout out to someone who's really important here at Build, and that's our co founder. And so having this realization to say life was comfortable, I mean, we were still working very hard. But jd, you and I were talking about kids ahead of the show starting and we had real obligations and I thought we had really thought I was kind of clicking down a professional journey that I was going to retire in. As an advisor, I really liked it. I still missed that interaction with clients. But it was really just this insight, this internal feeling to scratch. That itch of there's got to be a better way to build an investment product where we don't have to look at clients and tell them, can I make a deposit Can I ask you, [9:01] JD: was the methodology or the strategy exist before you decide to start the company, or was it vice versa? We're going to get into this game and now we pick the methodology. I'm just curious. [9:13] John Ruth: No, I think, you know, once I decided that this was something I needed to do, I needed a thought partner. Right. So the big shout out here goes to our co founder, Matt Dines. And Matt and I go back to high school. He's one of the smartest guys I've ever been around and someone I trust immensely. And we work well together. We have these different but complementing skill sets. You know, they're important in building a business relationship. Matt was at Amazon at the time. His background, you know, collegiately and in work, is in finance and he was applying those skills in marketing at Amazon, having a lot of success in his own right. But he'd been working on projects, you know, really building them from the ground up. That's a lot of what they do there. That's part of what, why they've been successful. Taking bets on new enterprises within the parent company. And yeah, I reached out to Matt. So back to your question. It was had to establish whether there was a there there, right. Like here's the idea. Do we think this is even feasible? [10:15] JD: How could it possibly. How could there possibly be a hole, right, with all these massive companies with tons of research but think tank. [10:25] John Ruth: Yeah, I mean, you have to have a gut check, right? Is this acute idea? Is there really something to this? So we continue to work through our professional endeavors and this was really a put the kids to bed and keep scratching at that idea until we finally had kind of an aha moment in 2018. And I think me first, I had to make a tough decision to leave partnership at what I felt like was a successful firm and practice. Anyone who's on the line right now, who's an advisor, you know that your phone only makes calls out for the first five years. You know, it was starting to finally work the other direction. And so that was a tough decision. But again, it goes back to we were imagining an investment. [11:12] JD: No, you caught it. You caught [11:17] John Ruth: was tough. We were imagining a solution that could marry with a brand. Right. I think we get hung up sometimes on explaining how the watch works. At least I did. Sometimes as an advisor, we talk a lot about participant education in the 401k space. But marrying a brand where we say our DNA first and foremost is looking out for the bad things that happen and trying to mitigate those and customize that mitigation to where you are so conservative, moderate, aggressive. I'd kind of become jaded. I felt like the industry was labeling products a certain way and that words didn't matter anymore. So you were looking at conservative strategies that are holding 60% equity. And then the person on the other end is confused as to why they're losing money. It's because the industry chose to solve for longevity risk. [12:11] JD: I think you're kind of referring to TDFs in a sense like, or at least partly right. I mean, TDS are such a massive part of our industry in terms of participants using them. And maybe not all tds are the same, but I think what you're suggesting is a lot of participants don't understand the equity exposure they have in a 2020 fund or a 2025 fund where there's still a lot of market risk. [12:39] John Ruth: That is a perfect example of an iteration of how an allocation model is delivered to somebody. And yeah, I'm sure you've done this if you're an advisor on the line right now. Look at a 2020 fund. I put it this way. If we did a poll, 100 advisors in the room, and we said, okay, here's a 30, 70 portfolio, 30% stock to 70% bond, I think we could get pretty good consensus through a hand raise that we felt like that was a conservative strategy. But as you start getting up there in that 50, 50, 60, 40 range, that's kind of what I think most of us think of as balanced or moderate. That's the migration. That's where conservative is today because of the interest rate story and because we're so obsessed with solving for longevity risk. But we have to figure out how to get people to retirement before we can get them through retirement. [13:31] Chad: Well, in some of the things that you and I have chatted about, John, over the year, year plus, that you've been considering, build and building, build out is about creating that smooth ride. And I think my thought, at least as I learn more about what you all are doing, is that not all fixed income solutions are created equal. And so what you guys are doing on the back end for that space and the fact that you can put 90% in a portfolio versus, as you're saying, 60, 40 split on a 2020 fund and still have pretty close to full stability of principle with some upside capture, that is exciting to me. That is different, especially the way you're getting the upside. I've never heard of anybody taking, and I'm sure you'll get into this, but taking the options path to gathering Some of the upside for a market that's pushing. [14:18] JD: I want to put a pin on that and get to that in the middle of the show, the actual breakdown of how he does this stuff. Can I ask you guys, just in general and John as well, do you think as an industry we should be. You're talking about how participants don't understand the equity exposure in their TDFs. Obviously TDFs have just massive market share at this point in the 401k space. As an industry, do you think that we should be moving towards educating participants so they understand these things more like tds or should we be moving towards this more? Auto defaulted just don't really have a clue. But we're putting them in the right thing. Chad, do we teach them or do we do it for them? Where are we moving? [15:04] Chad: I think. Well, I think we're trying to move a little bit more toward teaching them with some tools around financial wellness and other aspects. But I'm saying, and I think we've seen it in the chat room, most are not going to understand how the watch is made. To use John's analogy. What we need to do is make sure that the fiduciary sitting in the decision making seat understand how the watch is made and educate them to set up the appropriate lineup and give the participants the proper tools to set up their portfolios or their strategy. I don't think we can teach the average Mark Palmini exactly how these work. I needed to try some of this floral shots fired. [15:48] John Ruth: Can we talk about that? The punishment drink. [15:55] JD: You want to talk about what you're drinking? [15:57] Chad: Yeah. [15:59] John Ruth: Give a quick shout out to. These are related to our home offices. So the punishment drink I brought was a floral gin, but the distillery is near and dear to my heart. I'm just not a floral gin guy. But Fremont Distillery, that's really close to our office in Seattle. That's where our PN team sits. But one of my favorites. This is a London Dry. This is from Pinckney Bend in New Haven, Missouri, on the Missouri river, about an hour and a half away. They have a tasting room I need to get to. [16:28] JD: After Covid, I stole my wife's bourbon because she's in Tahoe right now and if she finds out I'm drinking this, I'm going to be in big trouble. Can I. Before we go, we'll play a little bit of game and then we'll come back to the kind of the. I was about to say the I word. The methodology of what John's doing there. Can I ask you guys, how do you feel about tds? I saw a lot of chats going in the chat bar. Seems like a lot of these advisors maybe aren't the biggest fans of target date funds. I personally feel like they're a pretty cool invention for my industry and so I'm kind of on board with them. But I realize I'm going to get a lot of hate for that, but I'm already getting hate for my Santa hat and wearing a beanie in California and all that. I see all those comments you guys are making taking stabs at me. But Mark, target date funds, are they lame or are you game? I'm not doing your show. [17:26] Mark: But no, I'm. I'm game for them. I see nothing wrong with that whatsoever. Like you're saying it was something created for the. The average I worder and something that took. I would say I'm just going back to when I first enrolled in my first 401k plan when I had to sit down with somebody and they explained to me and I was, you know, I was a lot smarter then than I am now, but at the same time, I didn't know what I didn't know. And they went all through all these different choices and I was just confused, like I don't know what I'm supposed to do. And now you sit down with that person. At least you give them a simple option and they can dive into everything else deeper once they become more familiar. It's not some scary. Let me go pick this Vanguard fund and this. [18:17] JD: Other than them, it's better. Better than them trying to build their own portfolio. Chad, are you a fan or not a fan? [18:25] Chad: I'm a fan. And again, I'll second what Mark just said. It's about the alternative. Because I think if we don't give people an asset allocation or a target date fund, they're going to sink their own ship, unfortunately. [18:36] JD: But then we. Then we circle back to what John was talking about. Tony chatted in. Tony Davis. Yeah, go ahead. [18:44] Chad: Sorry, sorry. Just let me add one more point because I was. What I was getting ready to say is something I've seen with clients that have sat in brokerage accounts for years, which is the vast majority of folks end up in a cash equivalent and get nothing if we don't have a good QDIA in place. I mean, that was the olden days when I started in the industry. Now, though, if you have at least an appropriate fixed with a 3% like we've seen in some of the old Hartford contracts or nationwide Contracts. That's better than a money market in my mind. I don't think it's better than a tdf. And I think what we're going to find, what John will probably tell us is, well, if you could get that kind of stability or that protection, we'll say and potential upside, there may be an even better solution. [19:27] JD: How do you feel about Tony Davis talking about a certain fund where a Target day fund, a 2010 fund that in 2008 lost 40%, is that correct? So there's some problems. [19:38] Chad: Well, that's the two verse through. So that's what I commented in the chat room. Right. Is the two verse through is a scary thought. If you have that much equity exposure two years before retirement, you lose 30%. I mean, how can you possibly retire to your. [19:51] JD: And John, I know you're probably biting at the bit right now and we're going to get to your methodology. We're going to talk about that. But let me first let everyone know that I forgot to mention that yes, the champion of the chat game is on. Okay. But it is not. It's not. Champion of the chat game is not the rip on JD game. Like so if you rip on jd, it doesn't mean that you win. You need to be funny. Okay. Okay. [20:16] Mark: J.D. by the way, it's called the CBC Chat Bar Champion. Sweet. [20:21] JD: I like that. [20:23] Chad: By the way, I'm keeping score right now for my chat bar. [20:26] JD: Nice. [20:28] John Ruth: I don't think these things are broken entirely. [20:31] JD: Right. [20:31] John Ruth: This is not a throw the baby out with the bathwater. You know, back to the. [20:35] Mark: Whoa, that is a gnarly analogy. I've never heard that before. [20:39] JD: Cancel cultured for that. Why you gotta be mean to babies? [20:42] Chad: Right? [20:42] Mark: What did the baby do to you? [20:44] John Ruth: Yeah, we leave symbolism out there. The. It's a good, It's a good first step because you're right about what you see in terms of people building their own portfolios. And I've sat in rooms with participants where they have paralysis and I really always thought a big mess for the office was that they didn't have an open enrollment episode. I thought that would have been a great. [21:10] Mark: That would have been totally, totally. Hey, hey, let's all recreate that. Let's get together and make one. [21:18] JD: I don't think it'll be as good, Mark. [21:20] John Ruth: John, you have to have an easy solution. I think our question, and as we get into the methodology later, is the inspiration is really what's next. What's the evolution of this? Because we have given them something better to make it easy. We've gotten rid of the paralysis. But to the questions you see in the chat bar, the example of the 2010 and 08, is it working or could it be better? [21:44] JD: Right? [21:45] John Ruth: And so it's an evolutionary concept that we're after here. [21:49] JD: I see one more fucking Christmas comment in the chat bar. I'm going to lose my shit. Let's go. [21:55] Chad: Hey, hold on. Let me. John, there was a video that Hancock pushed out probably eight years ago that I thought was fantastic. So you talk about office open enrollment. It was a guy named Chad. Imagine this, and it's all about fee levelization and plans. And he rolls into a parking structure and he tells the parking attendant, hey, John, behind me, he's got me. And he gets in for free. And then he goes to the coffee shop and he's like, hey, Justin behind me is buying my cup of coffee today. And then he. So he does this in a bunch of different buying segments. And then it gets to the 401k enrollment meeting. And he sits back and he goes, I'm not paying any fees because I'm getting an indexed investing and they're covering my rap fee. And he sits back and reclines in his chair. It's pretty fantastic. That's the office open enrollment video you're [22:39] JD: looking for for Nerdy Chad. Nerdy Chad at his best. You see how much, how much fun he got out of that video? My Lord. Every Christmas. Christmas. All right, John. We play a game. We like to mix up a little fun. And even though Mark was able to name the champion of the chat. What's it called? Cbc. [22:59] Mark: Cbc. [23:00] JD: Dude, it took him four months to name his game. What's it called, Mark? [23:04] Chad: I don't know. [23:05] JD: Yeah, explain it to John. [23:08] Mark: It's. It's a lamer game. Game is what it should be called. JD and Brandon like to call it. Is it lame or are you game? So either one works. See, we don't really care about naming our games around here. So if you don't understand the rules, John, let me break it down for you. I'm gonna ask you some questions, and the answer is either gonna be is it lame? Or are you game? That makes sense. [23:34] John Ruth: I can handle that. [23:36] Mark: All right, that's good. That's good. My first question, actually, this one comes from another source. This is not my initial question. This came from a text message from Justin McNeil earlier. And his question to me was secure emails from. He threw it at advisors, I'm going to say from anybody or any source. [24:00] JD: Good one. [24:01] Mark: Oh, yeah. [24:01] JD: Buddy, good one. [24:04] Mark: And so I, I actually don't recall if I've ever done this one, so if I repeated myself, the chat bar will let us know. But anyways, let me get to my point is those types of emails, if you receive them, do you think they're lame or are you game? John, I'll start with you. [24:22] John Ruth: User experience is lame. Compliance hat, I get it, but it's still. [24:29] Chad: It's. Sorry, I'll wait my turn. [24:31] Mark: Thanks, Chad, I appreciate you self regulating that. Justin, you're next. [24:37] Chad: Quote the Godfather, Nevin Adams, pain in the ass. [24:42] Mark: I like that. But that's not answering the question. [24:46] Chad: Lame. Lame. [24:47] Mark: Okay, just answer it accordingly, buddy. [24:51] Chad: Chad, lame for sure. And this came from a conversation between Josh and I with advisor emails that have no credit, no, no data that can't be shared. It's like a, hey, thanks for sending me that email. And it comes via secured email. Yeah, I gotta log into that and I gotta access it. I can't search it. Next time I want to find it, I can't do it on my phone, so I need that password. Ugh. [25:18] JD: Our IT guy, AKA my brother, has got my entire staff afraid of clicking on links. And most of these fricking things are links and they look really weird and so they could be a trap. So I am 10x lame on this stuff. I understand why it's happening, but I've actually ignored a few people have sent them to me and I'm like, I'm not even gonna open them. And then they come back later and go, hey, you didn't respond to my email. I said, yeah, because your email sucks. I'm not clicking on your stupid link [25:54] John Ruth: to defend them. A lot of this is automated. They don't have a choice. They send it out, it finds something in their language keys on it, automatically encrypts it. They have no idea it happened. [26:09] JD: Sorry, Michael Webb, when I got mad at you for that one. [26:11] Chad: Yeah, as long as you send out a secondary email, like, hey, I'm sending you a secured email, all good. Because I know you have to do it, otherwise it sucks. [26:21] Mark: Here's what I'll say is, what's weird is that like responding back to them can create issues when you're trying to talk with other people in the same email. And also if you start typing an email, walk away for three minutes, you come back and it says your session expired and you have to rewrite the whole thing. That's where I get really pissed off. Okay, next question. Ready, John? [26:42] John Ruth: Ready. [26:43] Mark: Okay, this one I'm not gonna lie. I didn't spend too much time on this today. So my question is this is happening more and more right now because I'm a. I'm a big football fan. Everyone knows that. I don't. I still don't believe that the football season's happening. It's just. It's just weird to me. It's just not gonna happen. But I run a fantasy football league. I'm just curious what you guys think if fantasy football is lame or game because I feel like even myself I'm questioning that right now. So, John, [27:18] John Ruth: I think it's game. I haven't done it personally because I've got three daughters and no time for anything that looks like a video game. But my buddies that do it, they get a ton of enrichment out of connecting with each other. I think it's game. It's good social connection. [27:33] JD: JD I get enrichment connecting with you guys all the time. I just want you to know that. Feel very enriched when I'm with you guys. It better be game because my son has three of them that he signed up for and if it doesn't go down, he's going to be super bummed out and he's going to be a pain in the ass to live with. So I'm game for the fantasy football Chad game. [27:57] Chad: I need to narrow the number of leagues I belong to, but I'm game. [28:01] Mark: Justin game. I just full disclosure to everybody, Justin. I run a fans football league. Justin wasn't even in it. But today I sent him a text message and I said, hey, Justin, you're in my fancy football league now. And so he joined because I made him. [28:18] Chad: It was nothing that. [28:20] Mark: But okay, drafted. That's how it happened. [28:23] Chad: You grovel. [28:24] Mark: All right, my next question, John, is secure email LinkedIn round nosers and I think you. I don't have to pinpoint whom this might be, but we all know when it comes to the responses and the comments, it's like the most probably generic post ever. And then you get like four or five people that's like rock on, buddy. What do you think? Lamer game for the LinkedIn Brown Nosers. [28:58] John Ruth: Lame. You. You can try too hard. Use that like button more often. [29:03] Chad: Justin. Lame. [29:07] Mark: Chad. [29:07] Chad: Lame. J.D. [29:11] JD: i really hate this one because what it end. What I end up seeing is all the like little quick comments and yays and good for you are all their local wholesalers and it's just like, it's just a race of brown nosing to the point where even if I really wanted to say Thumbs up to that person. I don't do it because I don't want to be part of this stupid little game. So it's lame. [29:36] Mark: Okay, next question. [29:39] Chad: Is this the last one, Mark? [29:41] Mark: Why do you want it to be? [29:43] JD: I could do the whole show like this. [29:47] Mark: Have I taken up my allotted time? Have I? [29:50] John Ruth: No. [29:50] Chad: You've got two minutes left. Okay, perfect. [29:53] Mark: This one's pretty simple. Just because I don't do much on social media. I'm LinkedIn. Excuse me? I go on Instagram. That's about it. And I'm just curious to know, is it lame or are you game for people who post the same picture or video on their regular feed and also on their story? John will start with you. [30:18] John Ruth: I don't know how to do that. I feel unqualified to answer. [30:22] Mark: Do you have a LinkedIn account? I'm sorry? [30:27] Chad: Instagram account. [30:29] John Ruth: Instagram. I do have an Instagram account. I think it's just me and my brother in law and sister in law, so I'm not a heavy user. But double posting, I'm gonna say, is lame. [30:42] JD: You and Chad. You and Chad. Jd, I know exactly what you're talking about. I've done it before. [30:50] Mark: Yeah, you have. [30:51] JD: I'm game. If the Instagram is a still image and the story is the video behind the image, then I think it's fucking creative, it's artsy, it's cool. Game, [31:05] Mark: Chad. [31:07] Chad: I am lame, but I understand because I think the reason being is you can look back in history and see those where you can't see the active story feed. So I understand. It makes sense to me. [31:21] Mark: That was such a good answer. I'm not gonna lie. [31:24] JD: Please go check out our retireholics. [31:28] Chad: Oh, there you go. [31:28] JD: Plug in because it's awesome. [31:30] Mark: Justin. Lame. All right, well, sweet. You know what they say? [31:37] JD: You do. You know what they say? [31:39] Chad: You know what they say? One point. One point to Greg for his use of K word. And I was talking about his last comment. Greg's. Greg's on fire today. [31:52] JD: I know, I know. The whole chat bar is on fire. This is getting serious. [31:59] Chad: Wheel vice. [32:00] JD: Well, let's. We got to talk about real shit now. Okay, let's get back to the methodology of build what you guys built. Pun intended. You met. You said something to me that I thought was kind of cool. I asked you if you were a managed account service. I asked if you were like 338. I was trying to figure you out and you said no, no, no. I mean, we can be a couple different things in terms of how we fit. But you said we're think of us like a new kind of asset class. And I was like, whoa, that's interesting. So get back to what Chad was talking about. Tell us about how this thing's built and what makes it different. The options, the fixed income, the conservative kind of nature of it. Because I think our advisor audience would be very interested. [32:45] John Ruth: Okay, well, so let's look at this year as an example because this has been a great up and down year, right. Our first strategy launched in the form of a fund end of January, January 28th. And our whole thesis is we're the guys that are about downside protection and upside potential. In the next three weeks we get Covid downturn market down 33% in a [33:09] Mark: week [33:11] John Ruth: that strategy's down about six and a quarter percent max drawdown. Now since then in the business yesterday, a little bit more than 9%. Something clawed back today, but it's beating a benchmark of a 30:70 portfolio stock to bond. It's not intended to keep up with the market. That's not where that particular strategy lives. But it's beating the market on both of those metrics. And we're doing that with a 90 right now. The current holdings are 92% investment grade fixed income and the remainder is in our options overlay. [33:49] JD: You can keep talking and just keep your drinks. Yeah, you can save your drinks. [33:54] John Ruth: I'm just going to put money in the bank. [33:57] Mark: I'm not allowed to do that. [33:59] Chad: Oh, I like it. [34:00] John Ruth: Made a deposit. [34:01] Chad: That's the first [34:05] JD: analogy. [34:06] John Ruth: So we're doing that with a different ingredient mix than that typical conservative portfolio. Today we talked about the consensus being say 3070 stock to bond is what most people would say is a conservative portfolio or an 8020 would be aggressive. Our aggressive portfolio is 90% fixed income with an options overlay. So it's marrying the experience that matches with the name in the strategy and not so much about what's in the strategy. We all just, I'm not sure we had consensus, but looking at the chat bar and so forth, you know. [34:49] JD: Yes, Michael, Michael, he said 90%. What kind of investment strategy is that? [34:56] John Ruth: It's drawing from, like I said earlier, it's a structured solution with active fixed income and passive equity exposure. But earlier, if you listen to the comments when we were talking about our target date funds gamer lame to steal from Mark, there was kind of a theme occurring and if you look at the chat where people said, yeah, this was necessary because we had given everybody tools that they didn't Know how to use. Well, then why are we so hyper concerned with what's in the tool? It's really about what it does for you. Right. It's the outcome for that person and the experience. I had trouble coaching people to save more when they were losing sporadically and it didn't marry with the name and the strategy. I definitely had trouble going to people and saying, hey, can you tell me about three business owners who could use my services when their accounts were down? So you're not helping the individual. You're not growing your practice as investment professionals. What you were saying earlier, Chad, the fiduciary and the advisor should really be. [36:05] JD: Thank you, John. [36:06] John Ruth: Johnny should really be the ones that are responsible for being knowledgeable about what's inside of those solutions. Worry less about whether the participant understands that what they know is they've worked hard for their money and they want to see it grow for them and they want to see it. There's no free ride in the stock market. I think most people understand that, but they're not ready for devastation, and that's what really freaks people out. [36:32] Mark: Chad? [36:32] John Ruth: Sorry, I know you were trying to pipe in there. [36:35] Chad: No, I was giving you a point for your use of the term investment, the I word. [36:40] John Ruth: Thank you. [36:42] JD: Do you think that participants like that concept of protecting themselves and not getting that punch in the gut, that big downturn, whether they realize sequence of events and all that kind of stuff? Or are participants. I know this is off script here a little bit. Or are participants still greedy bastards and they're looking for the best return they can get in a year? Like they want to crush the SMP and that's what excites them. And I'm not suggesting that's correct because obviously it's not. But is that. Justin, Mark, do you think that's the headspace of participants? Yes or no? [37:25] Mark: Go for it, Dustin. [37:26] Chad: I think it depends on the participant, really. I mean, if they're not savvy with it. No, not at all. They want help, without a doubt. But you will find those participants who want to try to crush it. But at the same time, can they really do it? I mean, that's what we have advisors for, you know, so I, as much as. Yeah, it's cool to get those gains. I really like the concept here to where it were. You know, it's protecting a lot of employees in that downturn, and I think that's huge. Think about. Oh, wait, think about what we went through in March. Timing is everything. And if you can protect that downturn like they did. What's a 6% you said John, is that right? [38:01] John Ruth: Yeah. All down negative 6.24. [38:04] Chad: I'm not asking 1 point and it was what's that? [38:09] JD: I'm not asking if it's the right solution. I'm asking if that's what the participants want and [38:17] Mark: they want to crush it. There's no question about it. [38:19] Chad: I mean I don't know if I don't think I agree with either of you in that I think it depends on the timing in which you ask a participant. If you ask them eight months ago, they want to crush it because they're in the midst of an 8, 9 year bull run and their thought is things are great. Like let's just keep on going. If you ask someone in 2008, the end of 2008 what they want, they're like I want stability of principal. This roller coaster is too crazy for me. [38:48] JD: Lauren nailed it Chad. Lauren nailed it. He said they want to crush it until they get crushed. [38:54] Chad: There you go. Katie, is your daughter home? [38:56] John Ruth: Mackenzie, can you bring her out because she ask her. [39:00] JD: Oh yeah, I have a 22 year old daughter that would, that would like her money, any money she makes just put under her pillow. That's where she wants it so she doesn't want to. Scared shitless of the market. [39:10] Chad: She's been listening to you for too long. [39:11] JD: Where my 16 year old son. So I guess that is the answer. They're different people have different desires because my 16 year old son he's got a suite of investments in his E Trade account that are airlines and tech companies you've never frickin heard of and he's just looking for the home run. [39:29] Chad: And JD I'll add this because until I had learned what a structured product was I didn't understand that it existed and I feel like that's what Build's trying to push into the case space is in terms what I think of a structured product which is protection on the downside with a percentage of upside capture. So if the market's doing well your options are going to pick up some of the upside. If the market's not doing well then your options aren't going to be leveraged and you're going to end up sitting on those fixed dollars. That to me is sexy in a 401k. It's different. I don't know if people will pick it up and that was one of the questions I wanted to ask John is do you think something that's different is going to obviously do because you started it, but do you think it's going to run in the case space? I'm nervous for you, man. [40:16] John Ruth: Yeah. No, I think folks are leaning into a better tool. The feedback we're getting from folks is, put it this way, there's no disagreement that there's room for something like this inside of portfolios. And back to what JD was saying earlier, I think there's a lot of ways that you can correctly use a solution like this. So we got a verbal commit from a pretty big firm today that sees this as something that they're going to plug into their risk mitigation bucket and their manage account target date funds because they need that downside protection in those solutions where they've been trying to get that, yeah, it protects on the downside, but then it never comes back to life. And that's what they found attractive about us was the dual mandate, protection and [40:57] Chad: growth, especially in an eight year run. Like some of those folks that had that protection sure would have loved a little bit of upside capture. [41:04] Mark: Yeah. [41:04] John Ruth: I was speaking with a firm the other day that I'm not sure if they're quite there yet, but they see it as kind of a core plus strategy. Their fixed income, they don't like the duration bet and fixed income, so they like that we're staying on the shorter end of that curve. But they need to get the appreciation that that high yield or that multi asset's been getting for them. Look, as you get to know us, I mean this is how any relationship works. It's brand new, it's brand new brand, it's a brand new fun strategy. You know, it's, you gotta, you gotta shake hands and get to know the person first. I think what people will find is as they start integrating it into their lineups and as we get opportunities to perform on both sides of that dual mandate, then I think they'll start leaning in more and more and making it part of their portfolio. Our long term vision is that folks look at this and say, I'm going to anchor my portfolio with this because I feel really good using it as my core. And then jd, your son who wants to buy tech stocks, you know, satellite that and go crazy. [42:09] JD: But I'm feeling from the audience somebody just chatted in like, oh, I get it, it's a sleeve in a tdf. Can you, can you let everyone know like, okay, where, if they were interested in this kind of stuff and I'm not trying to do an ad for you, I'm really asking you like, where can they put Put this stuff, you've got CITs, it could be a sleeve and an allocation. It could be a fund for lack of a better term on a menu. I mean tell me where this thing gets plugged in. [42:41] John Ruth: Well if you're open architecture, cusip ticker symbol, you just plug and play. If you're on, you know, a staunch insurance record keeping relationship certainly if it's a commission based, we're not ready for that today. [42:56] JD: I've never heard of insurance companies as staunchy. I like that, well done. [43:02] John Ruth: They're not always skating to where the puck's going but a lot of times even they have opened up an nav platform and we're on several, we're building that out still. I think we have about five right now that we have fully open selling agreements with. But like the conversation today, it's really advisor demand. So the advisor has the leverage if they want to do something with their business. More times than not the person plays that game. [43:32] Chad: Well that was my comment earlier John, of me being worried for you because I think the strategy is fantastic and I think the fact that it is something different I hope is embraced. My fear for you is that the area in which you focus is typically the largest spread for the record keepers. So if you don't get the advisors on your side, the record keepers are going to continue to shove everything they can into the fixed account that they're offering or the stability of principal account that they're offering because they know that's where they're going to make their largest spread. So it's going to be up market or it's going to be advisors that say I see so much value in this, I'm going to fight that fix and I'm going to push you in. [44:11] John Ruth: So this is not cash. I mean I'd make that, that statement, you know, right off the bat. If you're an advisor listening to this. Clients lose money, they can't lose money. [44:22] JD: I'm going to mute myself. [44:25] Chad: Dogs are going, you know, I think [44:27] John Ruth: the national average on that, it depends on the study you look at but it's going to be about 13% is the mean. It's going to sit in cash or cash equivalent that stayed pretty steady. I mean I think they're going to get their share. We actually have a vision on how we can help them, you know, expand their offering, really create the win, win, win, win. You know, they're doing better, they need to make money. The race to zero is tough on them. I mean you need nice services in your 401k or your retirement plan. But, you know, I think what's losing in popularity is where you have, you know, a mandate for the record keeper and the funds to be the same. I think advisors are just too savvy for that plan. Sponsors are getting too savvy for that. And frankly, the lawsuits just keep coming. So it's driving toward best of breed and giving flexibility and options. Sub advisement is something that I think that we're game for too. I mean, we can help those same providers. Again, JD had mentioned the sleeve. That's how we're looking to fit in. So we're not a competition as much as a, like I said earlier, an evolution. And there's a lot of people who can participate in that evolution. [45:42] Chad: Is there a space? Do you think you guys will compete heavy? Because I see a fit for it in the DB cash balance arena because you are giving upside potential with downside protection, which is what we try to tell folks. You want in that DB space? [46:00] John Ruth: Yeah, I mean, just the learnings of being in business. You guys run a business. People on the call are business owners. I mean, you got to be willing to check your assumptions. [46:09] Mark: Right? [46:09] John Ruth: Test and learn, be willing to pivot. Cash balance was a thing that we underappreciated coming out the gate, but voice of customer time and time again was, oh, this would be a great solution for cash balance. And we're getting some meaningful looks there too. But we knew it was available there specifically in the CIT space. But it wasn't something that our marketing materials really focused on. It's also kind of a nebulous thing to address. I mean, if I asked you who the top 100401 advisors in the country were, you could probably pull from a couple of lists. If I said, who are the top 100 cash balance advisors? [46:49] JD: You done messed up, Aaron. He would never make that list. [46:55] John Ruth: That's, you know, that's hard to find. So, you know, selling into that group, it's really about having a broad conversation and having then the advisor say, oh, hey, we do that 401k. [47:06] JD: Jake says he perked his interest for a cash balance. That's kind of interesting. So that's pretty cool. Let me ask you guys not to stay all super serious, but if you were, if you had that retireholics mutual fund or a retireholic cit, what would that allocation look like? Like, what kind of investments would you be in? Not blackjack and hookers. No. [47:35] Chad: Smirnoff Ice. [47:36] JD: Smirnoff Ice. We can invest in we could short o' tools. Can you short o' tools? Is that a thing? [47:43] Chad: Of course. [47:46] JD: Seamus, this is for you. Chat bar. This is your moment. Chat bar. I'm lofting one up there. Underhand. You gotta take a swing if you want that. [47:55] Chad: It's a retireholics investor. [47:58] JD: Matty Lights says Kate. What does the retireholics CIT invest in? [48:04] Chad: Mark, you're missing out on these. [48:06] JD: I got news for you, John. We are not conservative. By the way, this is not for the weak of heart. Like, you want in on this fund, you got to be ready to take the ups and downs. [48:17] Mark: Chad, what did you say? [48:18] Chad: I said you're missing out on your opportunities to ding us with technology. [48:23] JD: Nice. [48:23] Mark: Chad. [48:24] JD: Chad. You said Santa hats. [48:26] Mark: I did. [48:27] JD: Jd, I'm so mad. You know what? For that silly comment. Chad, let's spin the Wheel of Ice. I'm hoping it's you this time. I'm hoping it's you. Who's he gonna be? [48:49] Chad: Imagine that. [48:51] JD: Holiday Edition. Who said Holiday Edition? Web. God damn. I. This is a brand new beanie for me. I'm burning it tonight. [49:01] Chad: It's just the way it's sitting with your camera. Coming. [49:06] JD: Let me ask you guys this. My dad, who founded our company, in case you didn't know, he was super conservative. And when it came to investments, he was. He is. He's not dead yet. Love you, dad. He was very pessimistic. So whenever he would take me out to advisors and we would talk to them about what funds they're putting in their lineups and whatever, I'd get back in the car with my dad and he'd be like, all this. This. I was going to use the I word. All this choosing fun is a bunch of bs, you know? Like, it's all about asset allocation. It's not about picking the right I word, blah, blah, blah. And so I grew up under this. Kind of like, I guess I nullified the. And I'm going to drink for this. The investment side of things. I kind of put that to the side. My business. I owe you one. But I think I'm wrong. I think that plan sponsors, whether right or wrong, are interested in quality I words. They do think that there's something better for their participants. And I think that maybe there is. I used to feel like there isn't. It's a level playing field. It really doesn't matter that much. But now I think I was wrong. Is it important for advisors to get in with their prospects, get in with their clients, instead of just going the Same old tdf. This is your core menu game. Should they be showing new cutting edge things like this? And I'm going to go straight to you, Chad, because I know you're going to have an opinion about it. [50:48] Chad: Yes, they should. I think that it's important for advisors to stay in tune with what is next in the space and be ready to talk to their clients about what is cutting edge and where we're going in the evolution of this business. So yes, I think it is important [51:04] JD: because it's scary to go in and muddy it up. [51:08] Chad: It's not only scary, but when you're talking about fiduciaries and liability and personal liability for them, the thought of someone going out of what is known as being safe when it comes to investment selection and how we're setting up that corporation menu. [51:26] Mark: Justin, got one. [51:27] Chad: Come on. I get it. [51:28] John Ruth: Tough word. [51:31] JD: Oh God. This is supposed to be good. It's like really good. It tastes horrible. [51:38] John Ruth: Usually mixed. [51:39] JD: I think I just feel like, I don't think enough advisors are comfortable and I think they should be going in and saying, hey guys, I think there's something new here. [51:52] Chad: It's path of least resistance a little bit. Jd Especially when it comes to winning the business, if they're not using it in the sales front, they're not willing to step in when they're in the process of conversion and say, hey, look at this, look at this. That I didn't talk to you about during the sales side to push in. I'll give kudos to an advisor that's in here with us right now where we're utilizing a 338 and the 338 lineup comes from a specific provider which we knew was there. But they have a multitude of options at this provider. And this advisor steps up and goes, done the due diligence. That TDS suite is not one that I would like on there. I would prefer something different and that kind of step up and willing to fight for the client and talk about not only path of least resistance, but talk about what's really right for that client, I think is where we need to continue to strive for as an industry. That's what's going to make us, as we say, take that next step to being accountable. Look good. Not used car salesmen for this industry. [52:49] JD: There's the rub, there's the robe. [52:51] Mark: I'm not gonna lie, dude. The reason why the robe wasn't on is I was, I was late to getting on this call, but my wife [53:00] Chad: Maria was in the room and I [53:01] Mark: Said, hey, does this smell bad to you? [53:03] Chad: She said, oh yeah, a little brighter than normal. [53:08] JD: Mark, we all knew that that thing smelled. Nevin, we'll plug you. Nevin's saying, hey, check out a recent white paper they just published on investment menu. So napanet.org napa net.org was Nevin trying to set me up there? No, he didn't ask. [53:28] Chad: I think he did well, yeah. [53:31] JD: Do you think that retirement plan advisors are heavily focused on the nuances of investments? Ah, that's true these days. Or are they focused on other things? How about you [53:47] Chad: go for it, John, Take it. [53:49] John Ruth: Yeah, well, I mean I sat there. I mean I think the Kool Aid that we've been asked to drink for the last 30 years is that index investing is coming. The market goes up and to the right. You've got to participate. The latest theme is you should be doing that for free. And then you just got to put on your adult pants and take one sometimes because there's going to be troublesome waters. So that's the construct I think most advisors come to the table with. And so they're trying to do the best thing with the tools and the mainstream methodology that's out there. And I'm not necessarily for, I guess, putting myself in their shoes or how I viewed my practice when I was an advisor. I don't think I just go out and put any fly by night investment in clearly or fancy sector or fancy idea. I would try to keep that out of the core lineup I think if I was in their shoes. So the question should really be what does this do to change the outcome? Because we still have a huge miss migrating from pension to DC and we've had a couple years to figure this out. I mean since that dinosaur has started going extinct. But the outcomes aren't really any better. So the question we had was can we evolve the mindset that the market does go up and to the right but you don't really have time to participate in the down. Now that seems like an obvious thing at this point. But think about the young aggressive investor for a moment. We look to them and usually say, hey, don't worry about it. You're young, you have time on your side. What if they lost their job during COVID Is that true or should we always be managing the money? [55:47] Chad: Yeah, good call, Mark. [55:48] Mark: You said it like 30 seconds ago when I was doing something. [55:53] JD: Money in the bank, money in the bank. [55:56] John Ruth: Or should we always be managing the money in a way that we're thinking about the possibility that Bad things could happen. If we go through this year and haven't learned that the world can change tomorrow. I think that we didn't learn a great lesson from 2020. So I think we should always be looking for a way to protect what someone has amassed, but not at the compromise of giving them the long term growth. And I go back to who are the pros in the room? If you're the pro, then you should be the one who's willing to bring in the new idea and say, I think this is what you need because the outcome matters. If you don't think it moves the outcome, don't put it there because it's full of glitter. [56:37] JD: John, I will back you up on this and not just you with your story or your why and everything you just talked about from a conservative standpoint and protecting the downside. But I think if I was a decision maker, if I was a buyer, I would be a little worried about the person that's selling me the home run, selling me the secret sauce, selling me the, like, oh, I'm the smartest guy on the planet and I can pick the great things for you. But if someone had some humility, which is what I just felt from you a little bit, and I know it's just intelligence, but to come in and say, look, I'm going to protect stuff, it may not be the sexiest thing, it may not be the home run kind of thing. I'm not here to wow you and dazzle you, but it's important that we protect these people in times that are tough. I think that, not that we're all here to just win new business, but that might go over really well as opposed to, I think the default model is to sell them something really sexy and exciting. So maybe there's something in that. [57:45] Chad: Well, and jd, I'll also add not only the protection side, but I'm relatively young. If you told me that we're going to average without the bigs, big ups and downs, that we're going to average some 7 to 9% of growth on my portfolio over the length of the career I'm going to be working, I'm pumped because I'm in this business and I get stressed out when I see big turns. Now I put more money in. Do I buy low, Do I hold? Do I go to cash? I start to think about this shit. You know how much of a Nerd I am? [58:19] JD: 8% return. [58:20] Chad: Be a little lighter in the, in the ups and downs. I'm going to feel good about that. [58:24] JD: Eight percent Return, you're pumped, my son's pissed to all hell. But yeah, no, I get it. I agree, I agree with you. You know, if you could get 8% for the rest of your life and do it in a smooth way, that would be great. And I know that John's not here promising that, but nor can any of us. But, but, yeah, I hear you, I hear you. [58:45] John Ruth: No, but back to what you said, there's both in the lack of promise and also just I think a commitment to being genuine. What if we go through a period of time where the market, we just went through a 12 year bull market, what if we go through 10 years of flat or I mean all the things that were the feds playing make up the rules at recess. [59:05] Chad: Right. [59:06] John Ruth: So there's a lot of things that are very unknown related to what happens going forward. You should not trust someone who says they have a crystal ball. Part of our DNA is we buck that trend. That's just not a true thing. [59:21] JD: Yeah, it can't happen. [59:22] John Ruth: And so the passive side of it is, unfortunately if you're someone who goes through a period of time where there's a sustained flat or down market, [59:33] JD: back [59:33] John Ruth: up, zoom out, take the 30,000 foot view of us saying it always goes up and to the right. And I love the comment I saw earlier. The people always want the crazy returns until they don't. Think about the housing market. Leading up to 08, we said, oh, buy a house, it always appreciates in value until it doesn't. If you had to short sell in 08, you don't believe in that theory. So look at a more sophisticated department like a pension. They care about losses because they have to increase deferral rates or they have to book that as a liability. And if that's still the gold standard of professional management, why shouldn't we bring that into where most Americans are saving today? [1:00:18] JD: Fair enough. Well said, John, well said. We appreciate you being here, we appreciate you sharing the story. We're coming to the end of this very fun time. Maybe we'll stick around for a little bit, little bit longer like post show. But we've got to get to what I think is the best cbc bar none. Since the beginning of this deal, this chat bar has been off the chain, through the roof, A plus. I mean you guys are really bringing your game. Sometimes I feel like on retireholics that we veer to the fun stuff too much and don't talk about the serious stuff. Well, guess what chat bar, you're guilty of that all the fucking Time. You guys are talking about $50 hot dogs and weird shit and I love it. I love it, I love it. Let's vote. Because we are down to the end. This is gonna be a tough one. And I would dare to say, sorry, Greg Greenfield, because I know you won the be, but this might be a very prestigious award right here. Brannon, I think for today we will send the mini belt that you showed me to the winner because they have done such a great job. We've got a little mini heavyweight belt which we are going to put on there. Champion cbc. Mark named it. It's beautiful. We'll throw it out on Instagram tomorrow so you can see it. So follow us on Instagram. Mark, who's your vote? [1:01:53] Mark: Well, now that I know the stakes [1:01:54] JD: are, I don't big time think about [1:01:57] Mark: this, but I'm just gonna point out something that I think is amazing and I'm gonna give him my vote is pch. Because I just like that he tells me that he's going to Starbucks and he gives me a rundown of his evening. Like I'm a part of what he's doing, whether he be in Malibu or hanging out or doing something. I enjoy that. I like the fact that I know exactly where PCH is at all times when he's on the show. [1:02:22] JD: Have you seen his Insta? Have you seen his Insta? [1:02:25] Mark: Hey. [1:02:26] JD: Oh, my God. It's entertaining and creepy at the same time. It's weird. Just little pictures of himself in a mask. No comment. Just me in a mask. Me in my office. It's pictures of his lunch. All right, Justin, who's your. Who's your vote? [1:02:46] Chad: I got a second. That. Because halfway, you know. Hold on, hold on, hold on. You guys don't see this? I get texts from pch, photos. We're having side conversations all the way through. So I got to support that one. [1:02:58] JD: Who votes pch? John, you have no idea what you're involved in right now, but you need to vote for somebody. [1:03:04] Chad: Pick a name. [1:03:05] John Ruth: I'm scrolling. Jd, what was the comment earlier? It was a question about was that a Lauren on here? [1:03:14] JD: Lauren's got good ones. [1:03:17] John Ruth: I thought she had some good. [1:03:18] JD: She's great, Lauren. Mrs. Brandrup is the best. I love her. [1:03:26] Chad: Lauren's a guy. Lauren's a guy. We give him a hard time. [1:03:31] JD: Lauren's a guy. What? [1:03:36] Chad: She's quite the fire plug. Says Greg. Some of you are still getting points right now, John. [1:03:41] Mark: Sure. [1:03:42] JD: For a last minute vote. All right, John, we'll defer you for a little bit. Go [1:03:49] Mark: see that graphic. [1:03:51] JD: Okay, Brandon, Brandon's been drinking and he needs to stop. Chad, what's your vote? We'll wait on Chad. [1:03:56] Chad: Hey, I kept a tally throughout and while there was a run by Mr. Nevin Adams, who started to come back with some really good comments, Greg's PCH phone and ETF card comments were enough to push him over the edge for me. [1:04:09] JD: Greg. [1:04:10] Chad: Greg is my leader. [1:04:11] JD: Greg's back in because he had a week off. He can win again. Okay, I'm in. All right, John, [1:04:19] John Ruth: Lauren is getting my vote. [1:04:21] JD: Okay. Yeah, she's phenomenal. And honestly, before you two guys, we're going to vote. I was going to vote pch and I thought I was going to be the only one because so I'm sticking to pch. I can't believe it. PCH is winning the CBC belt. It's phenomenal. JD Won the prohibitive word. Thank you very much. [1:04:50] Chad: Typically worked out that way. [1:04:52] JD: And everybody, thank you for tuning in. Thank you for the chat. I love this chat bar. John, thank you so much for coming and and sharing your story. I know when you are trying to compete in this market that you are in, coming on a show where you drink gin and drink beer might be a bit of a risk. But thanks for taking the leap with us because it was a lot of fun and I appreciate it. [1:05:16] John Ruth: You guys are great. Look forward to coming back sometime. [1:05:19] Mark: Thank you. [1:05:19] JD: And pch, I can't wait to see you in a mask tomorrow. And I can't wait to see what you have for lunch, buddy. Also, show me another one of those pictures of your office when it is empty late at night. I like those. I like those. Right, Brandon, play some music and maybe we'll stick around after that. Or a tree. I like trees. This for you, John, this for you. [1:06:01] Mark: Up the road, up the school you [1:06:04] John Ruth: go don't be a bad boy, Johnny don't you slip up or play the fool. Get t by the te [1:06:29] JD: not to dead.