Jeanne Fisher: Winning Sales Without Self-Promotion | Retireholics

[0:00] Chad: In order for me to be included in any of those groups, I had to be as competitive as humanly possible. And that has carried with me to this very moment. Even with my kids, I had to throw fastballs at my daughter in the backyard today to prove to her that I could strike her out. So. [0:16] JD: But Chad, I heard Jeannie say things I've heard out of you before where like she loves to go to a point of sale and see that there's two other people competing against her. And if she's second or first or third, like she gets off on that, like going head to head against other people and then winning that business. And I've heard you say that before too. [0:38] Chad: I love the Q and A part of a point of sale. If you have really intellectual questions that dive into anything or you're curious about the service model, I'm confident in what we know as a team sitting there. And if somebody else has been in there in front of me, I. And they've told you something that you think is a big differentiator or that you want deeper insight on. That's my favorite part. When they ask you a question they don't think you're gonna know and you're well versed in it. [1:05] Jeanne Fisher: It's the confidence part, right? Like it's the confidence behind the sell. Like it's not just the sell. Like not to cheapen the sell. It's not just that. It's just being confident that no, I know what I'm talking about and I can show this to you. [1:18] JD: That brings me to my next question. I was gonna ask you how important you think it is to fuel with your knowledge. I see your videos. It strikes me that you're always staying up on regs. You're staying up on new legislation, you're staying up on new concepts and ideas. Is that high on the list to go into a point of sale and be successful? Do you think that's important? [1:46] Jeanne Fisher: No, I think you slow play it. So I think that one of the things that most advisors struggle with or even when I work with other others in the industry, they feel so they want to come out and just show you everything that they know. And then they oversell and they over talk and they over confuse people and so like I'm going to warm you up and get to like me and then you're going to ask me a hard question and I'm going to prove you I know what I'm talking about. So it's, it's not. You don't hit them with that. But you close it with that. [2:14] JD: That's good. That's good insight. Can you help me understand when you go to a point of sale to. Do you have some type of consistent approach? I mean, are you, like, you're saying you can't go in and just beat them over the head with, look how cool I am. Look what I do. But so. But you must have something that's repeatable, that you count on. You mean, is it a handout? Is it a PowerPoint to God? I say that. But how do you approach that first meeting with a prospect? [2:45] Jeanne Fisher: So I am a huge believer that the sell is not about me and what I do. It's about them. So, you know, if you look at our finalist presentations, they are branded to the client. The conversation is about the client. It's not about SRP and what we do in our imagery. [3:04] JD: Yeah, I think that's a couple. Keep going. [3:09] Jeanne Fisher: It's all about the prospect. Like, that's the problem with our industry. Everybody else is there. No offense. Most people are up there in suits talking about what they do and talking about themselves, and I don't want to talk about myself at all. I want to talk about you. [3:23] JD: Would you say that? [3:25] Justin: Don't say no offense either. I don't feel confidence from you when I hear that. [3:31] JD: So does that mean that the package or the presentation that you're putting together is more of like an analysis type of thing? So you've gone back to the office, worked with your team, and really put together a customized approach, right? [3:45] Jeanne Fisher: Absolutely. Absolutely. It is all about their plan design, their investment lineup. Our finalist presentations or even our introductory conversations are not about what we do. It's about, if they were our client, what it would actually look like. [4:02] Chad: Ding, ding, ding. [4:03] Jeanne Fisher: Oh, man, I'm terrible at this game. [4:05] JD: I'm glad. [4:05] Chad: I was gonna say, I didn't even bring in my secondary cocktail for a word of the episode today. Eat your beer, buddy. [4:12] JD: By the way, sorry for being late on that. [4:14] Justin: My wife has actually grown. [4:16] JD: Grinding up or blending up margaritas right now. [4:21] Chad: Jeannie, I can't imagine much has had to change for you, but, I mean, has there been any shift in your approach right now with everything going on with Shelter in place or, you know, you just utilize the technology like you've always been great at? [4:34] Jeanne Fisher: So the shelter in place, it's had no effect. I mean, we were working from home, just like at SRP, 75% of our company was already remote, so. So if anything, it made things a whole lot easier just because everybody is now, in our world, whereas we were trying to push people into that world, from a sales perspective, it's a fine line. Now, you don't want to miss an opportunity in a changing environment, but you also don't want to come off as inappropriate or not empathetic. So there's a little bit of a balance there. [5:05] JD: Did things change for you when you were at your previous employer? You had mentioned to me that you really were. You went out and killed it and drug it in, and then they did all the work ongoing is how you presented it to me. What has changed, going from there to your new home? And are you digging it and would it be weird for me to say, are you feeling more like an entrepreneur now, like in charge of your own gig? Elaborate on that for me. [5:38] Jeanne Fisher: No doubt, no doubt. We're definitely more entrepreneurial now. There's definitely more of an ownership vibe to what we're doing. You know, we were. I was definitely front sales and still am, obviously still in a very business development role, but also not with the idea that I have to necessarily give it up. The service, which, you know, you miss, even if you like new business development. A whole part of that process is building really close relationships with your clients. And that's not something that I enjoyed necessarily having to give up. [6:10] JD: Oh, man. [6:12] Speaker E: Yeah. [6:13] Jeanne Fisher: Mark out there trying to kill me. [6:17] JD: It is a different world for you now. So are you playing more of a service role? I'm not sure I caught all that. Are you playing more than you used to? [6:25] Jeanne Fisher: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, at srp, there's all kinds of resources, everything that an advisor would need to service a client, but the expectations, or I guess maybe the phrase would be, you know, you get to kind of build your own destiny. Right. Like, you get to do what you want to do, and that's a beautiful place to be. [6:42] JD: You had one more. I'm going to drink for you. You had one more of the C words, but it's okay. Keep it up. [6:49] Chad: The same thing that happened last time we had her on the show. Yeah. Yeah. [6:54] Jeanne Fisher: I'm going to start calling them the loved ones. [6:57] JD: So I hate to beat up on the same subject. I'll get one more question. And kind of this sales environment, if you had to pinpoint what makes you so successful, and when I say successful, I mean like winning that business. Right. When you're up against two other individuals, what would you pinpoint as the top or the top two things that make it happen? [7:22] Jeanne Fisher: We asked every time, every single time, why we were selected, and we were always Told that we just felt more relatable. So more approachable, more easier to have a conversation with, not just from, like a committee perspective, but from, you know, a participant perspective. And I think it goes back to. There's a tendency to rush in and talk about yourself and how smart you are and everything, you know. But we just wanted to get to know them and talk to them in a level where they could understand. Because most community members are not specialists. You know, this isn't what they do all day. So it was about making them feel comfortable. [8:02] JD: Go ahead, John. [8:03] Chad: I'll add to that a little bit. We've been telling advisors for years that what you need to do is determine what is important to that prospect and be able to address it. And if you're stepping in and talking about yourself and the 55 things that you can do, two of those may be important to them. You don't know at that point. So you've got to ask proper questions to learn a little bit about them. And it is a balancing act, because I've been in those meetings where you step in and the person you're sitting in the room with just pelters the client with questions. And it seems awkward, it seems odd. It's like, look, I need you to give me a little something. You can't just ask me 25 or 30 minutes worth of questions and not lead into any conversation. So the questions you're asking need to be very pointed, and they need to be in a way that leads you to conversation, showing your value. But you're right, you can't go in and talk about yourself. [8:55] JD: That's my takeaway. That's my takeaway from. What Jeanne's saying is it's about striking a balance, right? Between being relaxed and relatable, but also showing them. You said you kind of slow play it, but showing them that, oh, wait, this chick knows her shit, right? Like. And you kind of sprinkle that in and then. And then you show, hey, we got a professional firm. We do this for lots of other clients. But it's this balance of, like you said, Chad, being investigative, but also sneaking in there some of your value and trying to do it in a mellow way. [9:29] Chad: Is your typical process for bringing on it, for winning a client, that you're going to get introduced one way or the other. You find it, someone brings it to you, it's a referral. Are you gathering information before you do an initial meet and greet? [9:43] Jeanne Fisher: Maybe not before the initial meet and greet. So I would say meet and greet, and that's kind of where you get the feeler questions out. Like, are you more concerned about fees? Are you more concerned about your platform, your investments, your participants? And then once the feeler questions are out there, we almost always ask for permission to access data from the record keeper. [10:03] Chad: Oh, you'll get a direct link. Kudos. So you'll go after it yourself instead of asking the client together. [10:09] Jeanne Fisher: Remove barriers to entry. If you send them a list of seven things you need, you'll never get it. But if you send them a one liner email that just says, forward this to every. Your contact is at your record keeper or your tpa and it just says, I authorize GENIE and SRP to collect data. [10:22] Justin: Boom. [10:23] Jeanne Fisher: They forward that, people get it turned around in a day. And then you say, you know, even if you decide not to hire us as your consultant, we're going to give you all sorts of information, education on your plane that you can take and run with. [10:35] Chad: Do you sign an NDA with them then? Or do you ever run into issues with people not wanting to sign that letter or send it on to their record keeper or tpa? [10:44] Jeanne Fisher: Never. I would say maybe twice in the last four years, maybe in a really formal RFP process. But even then, like, even when we get to the finalist position, we always come back and we're like, hey, we can make this hour with the committee way more meaningful if you'll give us this data. And they almost always turned it around. I mean, it's very rare that they don't. [11:03] Chad: Kudos. [11:03] JD: I love that you, you mentioned TPA there briefly. I'm going to put you on the spot. And Brandon, do we have a poll question, I think related to this? If you could throw up that poll question, I'll basically just read it to Jeannie. The billing one? No, the bundled, unbundled. [11:23] Chad: Oh, sorry. [11:24] JD: It's all right. I probably didn't describe it. Okay, Jeannie, Damn, I can't. Bundled or unbundled, you know, to TPA or not to tpa? The answers for the audience to go ahead and vote there are always unbundled with a dope. TPA. TPAs are lame. Whatever the client wants. Which I would interpret that as, hey, you do some bundled, some unbundled, and then I love going bundled, baby. And the last one is I'm a producing TPA doing admin for the. But that's not you. That's not you. So talk to me. How would you answer this poll and why? [12:03] Jeanne Fisher: I would say whatever the client wants. And I would say we're 5050 because I do think it is contingent upon the plan. But I would say in the current environment, like that scale is definitely tipping toward the TPA environment. [12:20] JD: Where do you think, where do you see advantages to bundled as an example, like what are the types of clients that you think slant towards a bundled provider? [12:31] Jeanne Fisher: I would say a larger plan with a pretty straightforward document, pretty straightforward design that's looking for efficiency. I've had people, I've had prospects say like we just have too many people to contact and you try to turn this down. So you know what, I'm your consultant. Like I'll help you navigate these waters. But you know, if you have a prospect with who felt overwhelmed by the amount of people they were in contact with, you know, you're, you're not going to push them down a route they're not comfortable with. [13:04] Justin: Can I ask you, just going back a little bit to that TPA part, a question about. Because again we talked about how intimidating you are. Having met you, I know that that's not the case. Although you are intimidating when it comes to snakes. But my question is, I understand, I've talked to advisors about this before, about having a TPA in the room can be good depending upon the person or it can be detrimental because some just don't present like others. Now you strike me as someone who controls the room, controls the process, the presentation, everything about it. Do you hesitate TPAs when it comes to a point of sale or do you have partners where you do have them in the room? I'm just curious. [13:53] Jeanne Fisher: So point of sale. One of the things that's really important to me is that is that I separate our team as consultants from the TPA and the record keeper. I don't ever want to be, I don't ever want that to be a tie down. We're agnostic, we're independent consultants. We're going to find the best fit for you. However, I'm also a strong believer that every single committee meeting that we have, we, we check in with our TPAs prior to the committee meeting, we invite them to it and we always get a TPA report. So once the decision has been made that these are the service providers that are going to be brought in, I respect that. They're a client of the tpa, they're a client of the record keeper and we're all going to work together. One of the biggest mistakes I see advisors make in this is something goes wrong and instead of banding together with the other providers and just finding a solution, they like to point out fingers or throw other people under the bus. And that's not how we're going to operate. We're all in this together. [14:50] Chad: Yeah, well, and I'll extend it a little bit every time I speak with bundled plan that's looking to transition to unbundled. The conversation that typically happens when they start to ask about multiple points of contact ends up leading back to the fact that the bundled provider had a specialist when it came to the document or complete clients anyways, they were getting a different person. They weren't calling their day to day contact and asking what will happen if in this process and allocation, I add in an extra kick for this non highly participant. It moves quickly from your service person to a specialist. The same thing. This in the unbundled world you have your record keeper and if you need your specialist on compliance or design, you reach out to your TPA. [15:39] Jeanne Fisher: I would say though, I've seen this trend in TPAs. Like I guess we've always had our contact, but I have noticed like now the firm may have somebody who's in charge of distributions and now somebody may have somebody in charge of plan design. And I mean I have clients with TPAs that now have three contacts and they're like at the TPA, right? And they're like, but who do I. And it's. That can exacerbate the problem for sure. [16:02] JD: I don't want to sell against TPAs here, but I, I also think, I think it can be complicated in the conversion, you know, at installation it's like it's a sell against myself. You're, you're getting paperwork from the record keeper that you have to sign, you're getting paperwork from the advisor you have to sign, then you're getting paid for it from the TPA. And then as you're going to transfer that $10 million, you've got all these, you know, people sending emails to you. So I think the answer to that though is you, you need TPAs that really work well with their partners. Right. And coordinate all that. [16:34] Chad: But jd, come on, you know that the amount of paperwork doesn't change from unbundled to bundle. You're still signing maybe one extra contract, one could say, but you're still doing all the same work, same document work, same notices. [16:47] Jeanne Fisher: I think it's the consultant's job though. Like, I think it's the consultant's job to manage that flow of information and documents for the client. Fair. [16:58] Chad: I think you're on a different, a different platform than most then because many advisors are not taking on that role. [17:07] JD: Yeah, go ahead, Justin. [17:11] Chad: Specifically, you know, they feel like sometimes when they have a TPA in the loop, they are doing more work themselves. Do you find the same thing? I mean, I know we don't really feel that way. We try to do anything we can for advisors, but it's a fair statement, I think. [17:24] Jeanne Fisher: I think if it's a good tpa, you're not doing more work. I think you have to make an effort to work with them. And if you don't play nice with others and you don't know how to communicate effectively and proactively, then it can feel like more work. But if you have a good TPA and a good relationship, it should be less work. [17:42] JD: Justin, Justin. Who the hell said that in the chat bar? I would argue that with a bundle of providers is where you're spending more work. The whole point of having a TPA is to take work off your desk. Who the fuck is saying that they're [17:54] Chad: working with the wrong tpa? That was Lauren that said I banned them. [17:59] JD: Jdf, kick that person out of the chat bar. Get rid of that. [18:04] Chad: That's why it's important. I will say I'm astonished at. Every year I go to these TPA events and I listen to others in the room talk about TPAs. That is talk about how they want control of everything. Everything. They want control of every loan and distribution. They're not willing to let the record keeper use their technology. They want paper forms still faxed or submitted to them. [18:23] Justin: And I'm going. [18:25] Chad: And J.D. knows this is honestly the majority of the TPA community. We're far and few between in terms of TPAs that embrace technology like we do. So that old school mentality still exists. There's still a lot of plans written with Those old school TPAs who are very good. But nonetheless, they do complicate the process when they don't allow the record keeper to use their technology. [18:47] JD: Lauren's chiming in some more, saying it complicates matters and slows transactions. Lauren, I'm coming after you. Let's do it. It's all good. Let's shift gears. Let me understand a little more about your, your practice. What, what's the size of clients that you guys are dealing with? [19:05] Jeanne Fisher: So our favorite market is 10 to 15 million. [19:08] Chad: Yeah, that's. [19:10] JD: Well, today. [19:13] Justin: Do I need to take over controls here? Producer, what's happening? [19:17] Chad: Are you blended? Margarita? [19:19] JD: I was gonna join the chat and [19:21] Justin: I was, I was gonna say, hey. [19:24] Chad: And the problem with TPAs is they find problems. [19:29] Justin: I want to get checks. [19:30] JD: I want to get anything so you [19:32] Chad: never hear from them. [19:32] JD: I want to get off the damn TPA subject. Talk to me about your. About your. Your book. [19:39] Jeanne Fisher: Yeah. So our sweet spot is 10 to 50 million. That's where we want to be. That's where. Just from a. Where we can add the most value but also have a profitable relationship. That's where we like to be. That doesn't mean that we don't take smaller plans or larger plans. Honestly, our number one rule is that they have to have a dedicated HR person, the small business owner that's trying to do a million things. It's so much more work for us than somebody with a dedicated HR person. [20:07] JD: In this new entrepreneurial spirit, do you have goals set for yourself? Like, how big does Jeanne's shop get over the next five, ten years? Or do you keep it at a comfortable, smaller size? I mean, tell me about your dreams, your aspirations. [20:27] Jeanne Fisher: Yeah, so that's like. I feel like I'm still trying to figure that out. And we talk about it a lot, you know, as a team. Brian and Ray and I do. You know, we were working with a ton of plans and a ton of private wealth, clients, and Call it a quarter life. [20:43] JD: Mmm. [20:43] Jeanne Fisher: I know. Call it a quarter life crisis. But there was kind of this line where it was like, how many is too many? And, like, when do you want to go back to be that. That person where you have a real relationship? So. So I don't know that I have the answer to that yet, but maybe I'm getting older, but I'm going to. Less is more. [21:03] JD: That's smart. The tenacious, type A sales beast that I labeled you as. That is not the answer I expected you to say. But I think it's the smart one. I think it's the smart one. I think you'll find you'll have a lot more happiness in life if you figure out the sweet spot as opposed to just go, go, go. So good for you. Good for you. We like to have a little fun on these shows. We tried to, at least. And we play a game where you have to guess a movie. I think these days we basically just play the audio for you. So, Brandon, if you're ready, let's play our fun little guess the movie audio. There he goes. Who is that? Is what we call it. All right, here we go. First one. [21:53] Chad: Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. [21:55] JD: What's the matter? [21:57] Chad: I have a headache. [21:58] JD: It might be a tumor. It's not a tumor. [22:05] Jeanne Fisher: Tumor. No. I'm the worst at pop culture. [22:07] Justin: I know who that is. That's the easy part. [22:10] JD: Anyone in the chat bar, feel free to guess at these. You know who the actor was? Yeah, he's a former governor of California. [22:17] Jeanne Fisher: I was gonna say Arnold Schwarzenegger. I was gonna say that. Okay. [22:20] Justin: That Kindergarten cop. [22:22] Chad: Kindergarten pot. [22:23] JD: Good, Mark, good. All right, take a second one. Take a stab at the second one. All right, all right. [22:33] Justin: How you doing? [22:37] Jeanne Fisher: Pretty good. [22:38] Justin: Cool. [22:39] JD: You heard about the party being busted, right? Oh, yeah. Not to worry. There's a new fiesta in the making as we speak. That at the Moontower. [22:49] Justin: Full kegs. [22:51] JD: Everybody's gonna be there. You oughta go. [22:54] Jeanne Fisher: That's Matthew McConaughey. [22:56] Speaker E: Yes. [23:00] JD: The movie. Anyone got a guess on the movie? Oh, Doug Douglas got it from the chat bar. Dazed and Confused. Yep. [23:08] Jeanne Fisher: Thanks. Lincoln commercial. [23:11] JD: So so far, you're three for three, two for two. [23:14] Justin: Most Lincoln commercials are awesome. [23:16] Chad: Very close. [23:18] JD: Let's do the third one. Let's do the third one. [23:20] Jeanne Fisher: Oh, my God. Look at you. Oh, fancy. You look like you just stepped out of magazine. Oh, well, thank you. Free Home, Alabama. [23:32] Justin: Dang it. [23:34] Jeanne Fisher: I think she says you have a baby in a bar. It was my favorite line. [23:38] JD: You guessed it before the cool line. Jeannie. [23:40] Speaker E: We were going to hear the cool line. [23:42] JD: You're too quick. Too quick. [23:46] Chad: All right, fun note real quick here. Brad had a fun question. Says if Jeannie needed one of the retired holics to babysit her kids, who would she pick and why? [23:55] Jeanne Fisher: Chad. He's the most responsible. [23:57] JD: Good call. [23:59] Chad: Although Mark delivers babies, I'll give him that. [24:02] Jeanne Fisher: I did hear that story. [24:04] JD: No, no, no, no, no, no. [24:05] Jeanne Fisher: Thankfully, they're delivered, so we don't need Mark for that. [24:08] Justin: Real quick. He may come off as a responsible guy. He might be one of the most irresponsible guys once you meet him in actual outside. Look at that. [24:21] Chad: Justin. [24:22] JD: Justin, stop. I thought answer. [24:29] Chad: Chad's the right answer. [24:31] Justin: Yeah, smart choice. [24:36] JD: I was gonna ask Goin Mark. Go on, Mark. [24:38] Justin: Right, [24:41] Chad: right. [24:42] JD: I think I would go. I think I would go Mark with my kids. Just because I feel like Chad might be really strict or, you know, like they'd come home going, I don't like that Chad guy. I think with Mark, they'd have a lot of fun. [24:56] Justin: He would say, do you guys know what the IRS limits are for this year? [25:00] Chad: Let me tell you, I'm growing your kids intellect. It's fantastic. [25:06] Justin: They don't care. [25:07] JD: Dude, I was going to talk to you about startup plans, and if you ever took them on, well, I'll Just ask you that question. Would you guys take on a startup plan? Is that something that you do? [25:23] Jeanne Fisher: So we would, especially given the tax credit environment. But in all honesty, in order for it to make sense from a business perspective, we would have to charge like an onboarding or consulting fee, which would then be offset hopefully by the credit. [25:36] JD: So that was the second part to my question. Brandon, if you have that poll, you can throw it up. I'd love to get a taste for the audience, how they deal with that, but I wanted to have that conversation about whether or not you would. And I want to see what you guys say. Are you guys seeing advisors out there with startup plans doing like Jeanne, charging a fee to the plan sponsor as opposed to building in basis points? The poll question that's out there asks that and it says I still go with basis points and just hope that that puppy grows. I build them a flat fee for my services, client writes a check, combination of the two seems to be off to a lead. I don't work with startups. It's beneath me. That was kind of Jeannie's answer, all smarty. [26:23] Jeanne Fisher: Mine was the third. Mine was the third and I'm not [26:26] JD: sure the untraceable bitcoin. I don't know what's going on. Brandon's adding answers to the things here. Are you guys seeing that? Chad, are you seeing advisors charged for startups? Are you still seeing the old basis points? [26:38] Chad: So you have to know the vast majority of what we write in the startup space is with advisors who are golf buddies or go to church or have been friends with that person for a long time. And Those advisors aren't 401k specialists. So they're going basis points and they're making nothing. Oh, I did say that's for word. The ones like Jeannie have come out with a billable and an asset based cost where they'll say hey, we're charging five grand and 50 basis points and the five grand goes away when the assets exceed $1 million is kind of a common one that I'm seeing amongst three or four different advisors. I see very few, very, very few. And Jeanne, you're probably able to do this, but that are confident enough to support why they're 5k and 50. And Nancy or Joe that came in the day before is just 50 basis points flat. And so they try to talk process but they're showing the same providers, they're not giving any extra details when it comes to investment lineup or what value they're really bringing other than I work in the upper market. This is not typically my client size, so I'm charging a consulting fee. [27:51] JD: All right, Mark, a couple. Mark. Tell me, Justin. Mark, you guys write tons of startups [28:00] Justin: and you love it, don't you? [28:02] JD: Be honest. Be honest with me, Art. The majority. Give me a percentage first, Mark, then Justin, what percentage of your advisors are just throwing 50 bips on those things or 75 bips? [28:14] Justin: 99.8. [28:16] JD: Thank you, Justin. [28:19] Chad: 99.9. [28:20] JD: Okay. [28:21] Jeanne Fisher: Are those advisors doing participant enrollments? I mean, if it's a 25 person company and we're going to do enrollments like that's, you know, sometimes even just an education day, it's a flat fee to have advisors on site for that education day. [28:37] Justin: I'll say the education piece is split a little bit and, but I would say most will do at least be present for that meeting. I'm not saying that they're doing it A to Z and they have their own materials to go off of. The record keeper could come in and help them with that and present and they're kind of there to give their maybe 5 to 10 minutes, offer their support to participants. But yeah, I mean, I think a lot of it has to do with, you know, again, Chad mentioned it earlier. A lot of times they have a personal connection to these folks that they're trying to win business from. And I think they feel some accountability and they do it out of that. And also they want to sit down with participants. They want to find individuals that, you know, it may not be the CEO. Right. It could be a person who's making a decent amount but just inherited a piece of property or a huge chunk of money from someone who passed. So they have other lines of business. This isn't their focal point for their practice. Trying to do everything they can to find ways to get other revenue for the practice. [29:54] Chad: And even on that ongoing, I mean they're not going to have an extensive follow up process or annually. They're not going to be touching them quarterly or semiannually. It's just annually. Unless they get those individual clients out of it. [30:06] Jeanne Fisher: Well, but that's the difference. I mean any advisor either does it because there's an existing relationship or because there's other lines of revenue that they're adding to the bottom line of that relationship that then makes it justifiable. But if you're really just trying to have a profitable retirement plan practice and you're not trying to layer in private wealth, then that's not the market you should be in. [30:26] Chad: And Greg made A point in the chat. One could argue that if you have a 401k practice in this conversation we're having now, that makes you a consultant. Bear Mark. Right. That makes you a consult. You're willing to consult on the plan itself, not come in and try to find ancillary levels of business service, assets, life insurance, anything else, which I think [30:48] Jeanne Fisher: is a selling point. Like, I think that. That I think. I think you can go both ways. But, I mean, being able to say, you know, private wealth is not. Is not our focus. We're not here to sell to your people. We're not here to, you know, we're just here to help and advise and consult. Like, that's. That's a differentiator. [31:06] Chad: Yeah. What are your thoughts? I've had a couple of these come through so far. What are your thoughts on MEPs going forward? You know, you guys attracted to them or. [31:14] JD: Yes. [31:15] Jeanne Fisher: So I think. So I think firms like SRP and other national firms are well positioned to put one in place. And I think first to Market is going to do well. It's funny because at the Whip in conference in January, I was like, yeah, I can see economies of sales of scale. I can see where this makes sense. And all the TPAs were like, no, it's not. It's not at all. So I kind of realized it is for us, but not for you guys. So I don't know that will be as awesome as people think it will be, but I think it's an opportunity. [31:44] Chad: I think there are many TPAs that are hopping on that bandwagon, that look at it and say, hey, we'll open up a map that attaches to us on the compliance side on all these plans. I see slightly differently down that. But there are many TPAs that are going down the path of saying PEPs and MEPs are part of the future and they're looking to embrace them. [32:03] JD: I think Jeanne nailed. The one situation where I think a PEP makes sense is where a big firm like SRP decides, like, hey, you know, these small plans maybe really aren't our cup of tea, so we don't mind creating an efficient solution that maybe doesn't net us as much money as we'd like, but we'll make it efficient. We'll make it quick and easy. [32:24] Chad: But, jd, I've been. I've been preaching this for years. You have to talk about what the real differences are between a MAP and pat. Because, Jeanne, correct me if I'm wrong, but SRP already has a customized relationship with empower. That gets you negotiated costs and drive down fees for micro market plans. So if it's efficiency or cost efficiency, SRP already has that built with employees power. [32:44] JD: No, no, I meant that they would make less money on these vets than they normally would on a normal client. They might be bringing in, you know, 10k or 15k or 20k on average. And so they've never messed. I'm going to go kick my chihuahuas. So you keep talking with her about this. [33:01] Chad: I guess what I was saying, Jeannie, is that the Advisor making less. JD's point aside, many like SRP have already built the MEP approach by going to record keepers and saying, hey, economies of scale. We're a big group, we do a lot of retirement plans. You're welcome, Mark. We can bring you a bunch of business, but what do we want in return? Package lineup. Procedural prudence. We want the same kind of services across the board. We want to create efficiencies and we want negotiated costs. [33:34] Jeanne Fisher: And you guys, I mean, yeah, there's no doubt that national firms are definitely taking steps to be more efficient in all levels of service. But has it taken that full step into the like the Met PEP world like we're talking today? I don't think that we've crossed that final point yet. And I think just from the TPA perspective, the biggest issue in these things is the getting the client data, getting accurate client data. I mean it's not filing the 5500. I know. So I don't know that I think we're well on our way. I don't think we've, we've gotten there completely yet. I think we can. It will. [34:09] Chad: I'm still sticking by my guns, Brad, since you asked it that the only group that fits right now into the MAP and PEP world is audited plans. Those that are trying to save on costs because they're north of 100 employees and they don't. And you're going to hate hearing that Brad, because you're on the audit side. But if you're a 10 person startup or a 10 person million dollar plan or a 92 person plan that's not getting audited, I'm not sure the MEP or PEP world really creates much efficiency for you. [34:40] JD: I also don't think that you should make a decision for your plan based on saving yourself 8k. [34:46] Chad: Agreed. That's the world we live in. So what's the right fit for a MEP and PEP then? That's not a deciding factor. [34:53] JD: What's the right fit to me Like I said before, before I went to kick the dogs, I said it's for a big shop that wants to create [35:01] Chad: an efficient solution from a client perspective. Oh, yes, I'll drink for that. [35:05] JD: From a client. [35:06] Chad: You're good. You're on it now. [35:07] JD: Oh, I said it too. I said it too. I don't. I'm a total anti negnoid MEP PEP guy. I don't think there's an advantage to a client to be in a MEP or a pep. I think the advantage for a client is to be in a customized. A customized. Built for you with a professional like Jeannie. And the right solution from a record keeping standpoint and the right design, I think that's the best thing. But let's move on. [35:37] Chad: I hear that if it gives you access to someone like Jeanne, then I get it. I get that for sure. [35:43] JD: I just think. [35:43] Jeanne Fisher: But to Chad's point, every startup or smaller plan we would do, for the most part, it's gonna have very similar plan design. [35:51] Justin: Right. [35:51] Speaker E: I agree. [35:52] Jeanne Fisher: I mean, you can definitely find economies of scale. There's. [35:55] JD: That's the only part I agree with. Is SRP doing a member of PEP to beat economies at scale and provide something at that lower level. I totally agree with that. Mark, you do a game. What's your game called? And take charge. Let's do your game. [36:13] Justin: The game is called I'm game or that's lame. Okay, Jeannie, you probably haven't tuned to any of our shows prior to this and being on, because I did. I don't believe you. So you. I'm joking. So it's quick, easy game. But yes, no questions. Is a game is lame. I'll throw a curveball. I'll add a hypothetical in there. I don't know. Sometimes I don't have questions. I got some notes here. I use some sometimes. So just real quick. This segment is brought to you by because Suzanne's on nppg. I believe their tagline is you can't spell. New comparison, new comparability. Profit sharing plan without mppg. Okay, so first made that up. That didn't. That didn't work. That. Is that not good? [37:11] Chad: No, I liked it. Of course. [37:14] Justin: All right, first question. If somebody starts an email with I trust that this email finds you well, is that lame or are you one of the ones sending it, thus being game lame. Jeannie goes first. J.D. you're next. Lame. Justin, does the Chad use that one? [37:38] Chad: Oh, every day. Yeah. Oh, not every day. [37:43] Justin: I'm just gonna ask. Going to Jeannie's point earlier. You know, no offense, right? There may be some people on this, watching this, that do that, and I'm. I'm sorry, but you can trust that it finds everything. Well, it's. Where is it gonna go? It's. [37:59] Chad: I'm hopeful, Mark. I'm hopeful. [38:02] Justin: Internet. It's. It. It's email. [38:04] JD: Like. [38:04] Justin: Okay, moving on. Come on. Just stop, Chad. Next time you write it, just delete it. [38:11] Chad: I'm gonna put Mark's favorite intro right when I send it. [38:15] Justin: Yeah, you're better off just saying, like, sup, bro? [38:18] Chad: I do that one, too. Or Greg says, how you doing? How you doing? Yeah. Okay. [38:25] Justin: All right. You know, honestly, being in shelter in place has restricted people from going and doing things, and I'm sad for them. Some people really like concerts. I love music. I don't go to many concerts. But I'm just curious. You guys are on Instagram. If somebody posts a video or a story nonstop of the concert itself that they're physically at and that you're not at, you can't pick out what song they're playing. [38:56] JD: What do you think? [38:57] Justin: Are you game, or is that lame? [39:00] JD: Jeannie, you're first. [39:02] Jeanne Fisher: J.D. [39:02] JD: you go first. [39:03] Jeanne Fisher: It's lame. You're there. Enjoy it live. [39:06] JD: Drop the phone, Justin. [39:10] Chad: I feel like you're picking on each one of us. [39:14] JD: I know. [39:14] Chad: JD does that all the time. [39:15] JD: I like it. [39:16] Chad: I've gotten a few songs off of what he's done. [39:18] JD: Oh, he's just being nice, Chad. [39:22] Chad: I've been to, like, two concerts in my whole life, but I'm gonna say that's Mike. [39:26] Speaker E: Hey, J.D. [39:27] JD: how you doing? [39:27] Jeanne Fisher: So this is. [39:28] JD: This is clearly. This is clearly an attack on me. I get it. Here's the thing. You're at the concert. There's all these bright lights on the stage. You know, you've got a really good seat. You've had, like, five beers. So you're just like, they're going, man, this is so cool, bro. I'm gonna send this to everybody so they can see it. And I get it. It just doesn't translate well. I'm gonna stop doing it. I won't do it ever again. [39:55] Justin: I like to remember these wor. Clearly, no one cares. All right, moving on. Got it. Next question. Jeanne, I know you spent a lot of time in the car, and this is not. This is actually a question for the tireholics, and you get to answer this one after we're done is, I know you drive a lot. You're out there trying to drum up business, and you're awesome. And you're doing that. Windshield time is inevitable. So my question to the guys I'll start with Justin, is you can either pick and, Jeannie, you can be a little general with this, a specific song or a genre of music that Jeannie Fisher rolls the windows down, cranks it up to 75, and blasts with her [40:42] Speaker E: cash, Fools Everything Around Me. Queen, get the money, dollar, dollar bill, yo. [40:48] Chad: Yeah, right. [40:49] Justin: Justin, what do you think that is? [40:51] Chad: Oh, I was guessing country until that came up. I'm gonna go country. [40:56] Justin: Okay. Chen. [40:57] Chad: I think I would agree. She's bouncing to some country music in her car. [41:03] JD: I'm gonna go with just, like. Just hideous pop music. Like, whatever's in the top. Top 10 is what Jeannie's bumping. [41:12] Justin: All right, I don't answer these questions because they're mine. [41:18] Chad: Frozen soundtrack. [41:20] Justin: What's the answer there? [41:22] Jeanne Fisher: So, like, regular would be country, but if I'm just blasting it, it's hip hop. [41:27] Justin: Okay. All right, last question. This is for all of you. In the spirit of Cinco de Mayo. With the theme of Cinco de Mayo, I'm gonna ask you a question about pizza. Okay? So not even a laugh about that. [41:50] Chad: That makes perfect sense. Pineapple all the way, dude. [41:54] Justin: Pizza. Pineapple on pizza. [41:58] Chad: Yes, sir. Yes, J.D. yep. [42:01] Jeanne Fisher: Yes, absolutely. [42:03] Chad: I don't trust people that say no. Keep that in mind, Chat bar. [42:07] JD: Shut up, Josh. Josh says no. [42:10] Justin: Okay. [42:11] JD: Doug says hell, yes. [42:14] Justin: All right, good. [42:16] JD: That is another rendition of Lame or Game. [42:21] Justin: You know what they say? That's how he ends it. [42:26] Chad: Yeah, that's how he ends it. [42:27] JD: You know what they say? All right, let's jump. Let's crash out one more. Before we close up shop, can you tell us a little bit about how do you. How did the three of you. It's the three of you, right? You, Brian and Ray. How do you three dig up new prospects? Where do they come from? Strategic partners. Are you knocking on door to door? You know, how are you finding these new opportunities? [42:56] Jeanne Fisher: So we have all kinds of tips and tricks up our sleeves. I would say we're data mining the same software that Everybody is, but 85% of all of our clients come from SHRM. [43:11] JD: Okay, yeah, but that means you're in there providing value to them. [43:18] Jeanne Fisher: Ding, ding, ding. [43:19] JD: Oh, yeah. Yeah. How are you working that SHRM angle? [43:23] Jeanne Fisher: Yeah, so I was talking about this with one of my colleagues just the other day, you know, when we first really started marketing. I started doing shirm presentations back in 2012, and we started by, you know, paying to sponsor A meeting and then speaking at them. And then it wasn't but two years later where we just became an expert speaker at chapter meetings, state meetings, national conferences. And at that point you're, you're no longer paying for marketing. You are just recognized as the subject matter expert in that area. And it's a tight knit group. And this wasn't, I try to explain this to people all the time. This wasn't something that like we just stumbled on. I was private wealth advisor. I've been a private wealth advisor for twice as long as I've been a 401k advisor. And when we decided to go down this route and create a marketing plan and develop it and build it like you should be, yet we, we knew immediately. 76% of all HR reps are women. They're empathetic, they're caring, they're relatable. You know, I could have tried to do the same thing with a CFO networking group or an accounting group and it probably wouldn't have landed as well. But like this network of women, they're my people now. And it, and it's, it was focused and intentional and we dedicated ourselves to it and it's paid off over and over and over again. [44:44] JD: Well, yeah, your answer is not a quick fix either. So it's probably not the thing that a lot of people want to hear. Right. That's a, that's a long process. It's a difficult process. You got to have the chops and the skills to do it. But that's interesting here. [44:59] Chad: I love to hear how deliberate it was though. There are so many folks that dance around finding prospects and what they're going to commit to and trying and they're willing to only do it short term. And if they don't see immediate responses, then they balance. So kudos to you for being deliberate and sticking with it. [45:15] Jeanne Fisher: Incredibly deliberate. And then like and, and I would say people come to me all the time and they're like, well, I did a sure meeting and nothing ever came of it. Well, because you did one. Like that's not. And it's not. You can't just speak at the shrm. You have to do a giveaway with a gift card and get business cards and then follow up and then follow up again and then see them at the state conference like it. And then you have to give back as much as you are asking. Right. So like we may not be really aggressively marketing right now because it's kind of not the time, but we're serving as a conduit oh, well, this client had 200 furloughs, and here's what they did to make it easier. Like, all you're doing is serving as a conduit and a resource for this [45:55] JD: network that falls right in line with social media content in the world. I mean, you gotta give, give, give. And if you're out there just trying to help and you're out there trying to give, I think that's the best marketing you could do. [46:09] Chad: Right. [46:09] JD: Is then people turn around and like, that person's not selling me, but geez, they've got a lot of information that would be really helpful to me. And when they're in a tough spot or they want to switch, you're the first person that they're gonna call. I love that. Can you tell me, Brian and Ray, that's your team? Not only just here, not on the handlers. I think we've elevated them from the handlers. You know, they're part of your team now. Yes. Mark, you look like you got something to say now. [46:40] Justin: I just wonder what we call them now then. [46:42] JD: Oh, if we don't call them the handlers, what do they do for you? What are their two roles? [46:47] Jeanne Fisher: Brian and Ray are licensed financial advisors. Far more valuable, I think, to the client relationship than I could ever want to be. Brian. [46:56] JD: Brandon's reading my mind. [46:58] Jeanne Fisher: Brian. Brian is Brian's service all day, every day. Technical. Hey, Brian. [47:05] Chad: Brian, do we have Ray? [47:08] JD: Is Ray gonna jump on, too? There's Ryan, Ray, Ann. Yeah. What's that game show they play where they surprise you with your family members or whatever? [47:17] Chad: We're doing our version Ellen DeGeneres Show. [47:20] Jeanne Fisher: Hi, guys. [47:22] JD: Jeannie. I reached out to these two and asked them about you and told them I wanted to sneak them on this show in the middle of it. And Brian wrote me two paragraphs about. [47:36] Chad: Didn't see the first part. [47:37] JD: I know, I know. But it was actually a great accident because it was the most heartfelt, cool thing. So I don't know if Brian, can you do your best to describe for me Jeannie as a partner? And I'm going to drink for this. A 401k icon. How is it being part of her team? [48:00] Chad: Oh, man, it's great. I mean, honestly, I owe my whole career to this woman. I mean, she got me my start at my previous firm. She stuck her neck out for me the. The whole way, and she's. She's been a great person to learn from. You know, this entire process. [48:17] JD: Part of the narrative that you were telling me is that. And I labeled her. I labeled her earlier in this show as this type A go getter cutthroat, you know, goals and quotas. But your comments to me were like, she's a team player and she puts you guys on the same level as her. Can you expand on that a little bit? [48:42] Speaker E: Oh, yeah. [48:42] Chad: I mean, it's never. This is Jeannie's client. Look at all the stuff Jeannie did for you. She's always gonna bring the team up. It's. Look at what our team's done. Our team is here for you. She never goes in without mentioning Ray and I as part of the process. [48:58] Justin: And it's. [48:59] Chad: Our clients love that. I'll drink for that. [49:02] JD: She's not big fancy pants. Ray, beyond. [49:06] Justin: Unmute yourself, Ray. Unmute yourself. [49:08] JD: It's Ray muted. I can unmute it. [49:09] Chad: Ray, your glass is like the double size of your head. [49:14] JD: Ray, beyond her exposing you to sure death in her backyard by 6 foot long black snakes that creep me the F out. Amazing. Tell me about your experience with her. Does she inspire you? What are the things she does as a leader that you're into or. If she doesn't. If she doesn't and she bothers you and you hate her guts, you can share that too. [49:39] Chad: JD will hire you in case. In case you say anything really bad about her. [49:43] Jeanne Fisher: Yeah, I think Brian mentioned this too. [49:47] JD: Like, he talked about her mantra, which [49:50] Jeanne Fisher: is work hard, play hard, which I [49:53] JD: vividly remember during my interview with her. [49:56] Jeanne Fisher: She said, that's what we do here. [49:58] JD: And that's been evident since day one, [50:01] Jeanne Fisher: since working with her. [50:03] Justin: Was she drinking bourbon during your interview? [50:08] Chad: It was Taco Tuesday, though. [50:11] Justin: I would have called bullshit on that then, like, oh, really? Cool. Yeah. [50:15] Jeanne Fisher: The last question she asked me during my interview was, what is Tuesdays for? And I had no idea because I was so nervous and I did not get it right. [50:24] JD: But it was definitely for tacos, and I didn't get it. How about. I don't know if you guys have seen this, but Ray, how about the time you fell asleep in the back of the car after. After a sponsor meeting and these two took a picture of you and forever on you arenow hashtag 401k, baby. Is that this work and play mix that you're talking about? [50:48] Chad: Yeah. [50:48] Jeanne Fisher: No. [50:49] JD: Yeah, I like it. I like 401k, baby. Well, clearly you guys. Clearly you guys are. Are fans of her to leave the previous gig, follow her along. I think you guys are gonna do great things. I appreciate. [51:05] Justin: Can I just ask, are you guys, like, being held against Your will, like, I'm just curious. [51:12] Chad: Yeah, Dave, think. [51:14] JD: Good. [51:15] Justin: Are you good? [51:15] Chad: Someone. Someone needs Jeannie to, you know, help the lighting and get the hairs out of her face every now and then. So, I mean, it's. You have the handlers there to do that, right? Oh, geez. [51:36] JD: Oh, I thought that was like her. I thought she was. I thought Ray was like on her bed or something. [51:42] Chad: I thought Ray got scared and ran off the show. [51:45] JD: Hey, that is not in California. We're supposed to do social distancing by six feet. I don't know what's going on out [51:52] Jeanne Fisher: there, but Ray was so worried we would be judged by that. Terrified, like, are we gonna get in trouble? [51:59] Chad: Well, we just had Justin, Mark, go ahead and come in. [52:06] JD: We haven't told anybody, but actually Chad, Mark and Justin all live together in a really shitty little apartment. [52:11] Chad: But yeah, that whole thing about our kids and stuff, those are all children. [52:17] JD: I wanna wrap this. I want you guys to get to your to your taco Tuesday nights. And so thank you for joining us. We appreciate it. Thanks for sharing some of the way you do what you do. And I would wish you guys good luck, but you don't need it. You guys are gonna. You guys are gonna crush it in the 401k space. I'll drink for that. So thanks. It's been another episode of Sheltering in place. And Maya, why don't you come on in and give the send off. [52:44] Justin: Don't touch your face, ding dong. [52:46] JD: Thanks, Maya. I appreciate that. Okay, guys, thank you very much. Have a great night. [52:51] Jeanne Fisher: Mark, I ordered my patch. [52:54] JD: You did? [52:56] Chad: Oh, that just made my day. [52:58] Jeanne Fisher: Yeah, I'll send it to you as soon as I get it. [53:00] Justin: Where do you want it to go? [53:02] Jeanne Fisher: On the ass. [53:04] Speaker E: Oh, [53:07] Justin: I love it. But then no one will see. You got to send me two. Then you got to send me Bart. [53:12] JD: Why are your fingernails. Let's go to all your fingernails. [53:16] Justin: Maya, who you just all saw, decided two nights ago that she was gonna have salon time. And she said, daddy, you're up. And so she painted my nails and she put clips in my hair and all that. And I'm not afraid to say that it was fun and I enjoyed it. [53:32] Chad: I'm starting to think you made the wrong decision going to Chad to watch your kids. Maybe you chose right, Jeannie. [53:41] Justin: I will say some of it fell off. [53:43] Chad: Okay, CPR certified. [53:46] JD: Very rock star. That's very rock star, Mark. I like it. I like it. [53:51] Justin: I'm nothing wrong with it. I love my daughter and whatever she wants to My fingernails. [53:57] JD: You guys are free to go. You guys can. We're not keeping you here. [54:01] Jeanne Fisher: You guys should know, though. Like, you should know. You totally made our day. We were supposed to have a giant kickoff happy hour. Paco. Tuesday, Cinco de Mayo, rooftop bar, Nashville. And it was canceled, so you made good of our night. [54:19] Chad: Second best thing. [54:22] JD: Well, hopefully we'll do this again live. We'll do this again live. Brandon, you got some music to play. And play us out. See you guys. [54:33] Chad: See you. [54:45] Speaker E: Cash rules everything around me Cream get the money $$bill yo. I grew up on the crime side, the New York Times side Staying alive was no job had second hands moms bounced on old man so then we moved to Shell and Lance a young youth. You're rocking the Go tooth low goose Only way I begin to go was drug loop and let's start it like this, son Rolling with this one and that one Pulling out gats for fun but it was just a dream for the team who was a fiend Started smoking wounds at 16 and running up in gates and doing hits for high stakes Making my way on fire skates no question I was speed for cracks and weed the combination makes made my eyes bleed no question I will flow off and try to get the dough off Sticking up right boys on board, board My life got no better Same damn low sweater Times is rough and tough like leather Figured out I went the wrong route so I got with a sick type click and went all out Catching keys from cross seas rolling in MPVs every week we made 40g yo brothers respect mine are here gonna take matters move from the gate now Cash fools everything around me Cream get the money $$bill yo. Cash rules everything around me Cream get the money Dolla dollar bill, y' all it's been 22 long hard years I'm still struggling Survival got me bugging but I'm alive on arrival I'm being practiced safe in the streets to stay awake to the ways of the world deep A man with the dream with plans to make cream I went to jail at the age of 15 a young buck selling drugs and such who never had much Trying to get a clutch on what I could not touch the court lady shouldn't I face incarceration pacing no one upstates my destination handcuffed in back of a bus 40 of US life as a shorty shouldn't be so rough but as the world turned I learned life was hell Living in the world no different from a cell Every day I skate from time to time Thanksgiving taste selling bass smoking bones in the staircase Though I don't know why I chose to smoke cess I guess that's the time when I'm not depressed but I'm still depressed and I ask what's your worth where did you give up? So I seek the old earth who explained working hard may help you maintain to learn to overcome the heartaches and pain you got stick up kids corrupt cops and crack rocks and space shots rolling a block that stays hot leave it up to me while I be living proof to kick the truth to the young black youth we saw these running around smoking sets drinking beer and ain't trying to hear what I'm kicking in his ear Neglect it for now but yo it gots to be accepted that what the life is hectic Cash rules everything around me green get the money dollar dollar bill yo Cash rules everything around me green get the money dollar dollar bill y' all cash Everything around me cream get the money dollar dollar bill yo Cash moves everything around me cream get the money dollar dollar bill y' all. Cash rules everything around me craig get the money $$bill yo cash moves everything around me Cream get the the money dollar dollar bill y' all cash Frs Everything around me cream get the money dollar dollar bill y' all Cash Ow Everything around me cream get the money dollar dollar bill yo yeah Cash rules everything around me cream get the money dollar Do.