Fintech & Record-Keeper Consolidation with Holly Knight

[0:02] JD: Let me up. Hit me up. You're gonna have a real bad time. Welcome to Retireholics, everybody. It's gonna be a great show today. We got a lot of good stuff to talk about. My name is J. Dizzle. That's not true. Who am I kidding? I don't have a nickname like these guys. I'm just jd. But we got Robe Guy, and he is so fly. And we got Nerdy Chad, too. Always learning something new. Then there's that one guy. He don't even say hi. That's Silent J. And he's always on his silent grind. Because we retire, Hulu is a status state, a state of mind where your contributions can't always be defined. We like our 401 with a big old, big old K. It's another episode of Retireholics coming your way. And when I say coming your way, I mean right now. Justin, I know you've got something planned for this guest, so come on, man child, let's hear it. Who is on the show today? [1:16] Justin: Well, I've said it before, and I'll say it again. [1:18] Chad: You'll. [1:19] Justin: You'll always remember your first intro. That is for those of you who have not been here too long. Holly was the very first time I ever had to write an intro. Came to me last minute. [1:31] JD: Wow. [1:32] Justin: Scared shitless. Didn't know what to say. I was reading from a book. But it was definitely one of my favorite intros. And as you all know, three Pete. Guess right. [1:41] Chad: All right. [1:42] Justin: But I also heard that. I don't know, I think it was web or someone said five. Kind of threw me off guard, but no way. [1:48] Mark: Creepy guest. [1:50] Chad: What? [1:51] Mark: Webby was asking if we have a five, Pete. [1:54] JD: Oh, okay. [1:54] Justin: Gotcha. Anyways, three peak. [1:56] Chad: Guest. Guest. [1:57] Justin: Dear friend of the crew. Although she might be on Mark's shit list. I know a little bit longer. Clearly a boomer of technology. Can't get lighting right, doesn't know how to turn on her camera. But we love her nonetheless. Everybody, please welcome Ms. Holly Knight. [2:15] Holly Knight: I love you guys. Thank you for your patience with me. And one of those. It's been one of those days. Those weeks. [2:23] JD: Welcome to the show. Holly, you are a fan favorite and we're excited to have you here today. We've got a lot of really cool to talk about. I think I've never been excited about the subject matter as much as I am for this show here today. I think we have some in depth conversations. But before we do that less, let's do a little housekeeping first. Holly, we know you Left nfp. And. But let's hear your big, special announcement. Where have you landed? And maybe what you could do is for the people that don't know you, which I know is probably nobody, I see you as this kind of financial educator that these firms hire you because you fucking get shit done, and you get out there and actually make things happen for people in this whole retirement space. Are you continuing in that same type of role? Where are you? Where. Where are you? Where's this new employer? Let us know. [3:27] Holly Knight: All right, well, so I. I am going to be doing some financial education, but more in a supportive role. And so my new position is the director of retirement plan services. And so I'm going to be working with. Sorry, that's my son. And I. So I'm going to be supporting our retirement plan services division. And so my new family is with the Alera Group. [4:01] JD: Oh, okay. All right. How big is that shot? How many people work there? Ballpark. [4:10] Holly Knight: So it's about 4,500. I want to say we've had a lot of growth. I mean, it's a young company, but there's been tremendous growth, especially this year. So it's kind of an exciting place to be right now. [4:23] JD: All right, well, Fun. Good for you. I know, obviously, you're great at what you do, and it's cool that they snagged you. I'm sure they're excited about that. Okay. Right on. Holly's announcement. Lyra Group. I. [4:39] Chad: When does this officially start? Because, I mean, you haven't even put this on LinkedIn yet. [4:44] Holly Knight: No, I was waiting to come on the show with you guys. [4:49] JD: Officially started. [4:51] Holly Knight: Yeah. This is. This is big news. So this is my. Today was my ninth day. Day with them. So, you know, it's brand new. It's a little like drinking water out of a fire hose. I'm meeting a lot of people and Chicago last week, but it's. It's. It's really exciting. This is a. This is a great firm with a lot of, you know, just a lot of activity right now and a very entrepreneurial spirit, which is what drew me to that. [5:17] JD: That's awesome. When you. When you. When you go. When you need to announce your next employer, we can have you come here, too. [5:24] Holly Knight: Next rule. [5:25] JD: Kidding. Alara Group. I'm just joking around. Just. [5:28] Holly Knight: Yeah, I. I think I. I'd like to. I'd like to put some roots down here. I mean, this is a good. This is a different. I mean, I. Listen, I've been in the industry, you know, for a while now. I just turned 50 this year and, and I've seen a lot of different ketchup. [5:42] JD: Huh. [5:43] Mark: You get catch up contributions. [5:45] Chad: Wait, you said, you said this year, like within the last 15 days. [5:50] Holly Knight: Oh, sorry, you're, you're right. No, last year. Oh, gosh, you're gonna be 51 this year. So last year I turned 50, but that was kind of a big, it was a big year for me. You know, I, I intentionally put out this kind of like mantra to myself to really figure out where I wanted to be and what I wanted to do. And, you know, I think you hit a certain age and then you start, you start looking at time differently. And I just wanted to be really, you know, really intentional. And so I that year to be very, you know, take some deep dives. And this is exactly where I need to be. [6:26] Justin: So is your mantra still my best is yet to come? [6:29] Holly Knight: Yes, it is. Wow. [6:32] JD: We're only really five minutes in. Holly's already gotten very deep. That's the Holly we know and love. Two more housekeeping things I'd like to do. I found out today, just randomly, that Brian Williams, who is in our chat bar right now, he's got a podcast and it's called, yeah, it's called 401k and beyond, and it's on Apple, Spotify, Amazon. He's got nine episodes, but he's been doing it since like 2021 or something. There you go, Brandon. Thank you. There's this little logo thing, and so I just want to say, you know, he's kind of a retireholics chat bar family, so I, I'll be listening. [7:21] Mark: I had no idea. [7:22] JD: I don't know if it's any, I don't know if it's any good or not. I mean, it could be a total piece of, for all I know. But hey, if there's 401k podcasts out there, I think y' all should go check it out. [7:31] Chad: You're such a dick. [7:36] JD: Lastly, for the little housekeeping, here's what we're going to do today. Sometimes rope guy. Housekeeping. Sometimes rogue guy. [7:49] Justin: A little late on that. [7:50] JD: Just like Ollie, when things don't always go as planned, you can go back to the old way of doing things. Like, I, I, I want to say that people should evolve and always do new things, but sometimes you need to recognize when the old thing was better than the new thing or the next thing. And so we're gonna go old school chat bar champion tonight. Okay? And for this year, we're gonna nominate who we think and then assuming Brandon's okay with this, we're gonna let the audience pick the actual winner like we used to polling style, you know. [8:25] Justin: Can we vote this time? [8:27] JD: No, we can't vote. And because we don't see how any [8:31] Chad: of this is any different. I'm confused. [8:33] JD: Need to leave this in the hands. We haven't let the audience vote for Chatbar champion in a year plus or something. [8:39] Chad: I don't pay much attention at the end. So that makes sense. [8:43] JD: And the winner we're going to go back to like them getting like fried chicken and you know, like that. So that's what we're going back to. Okay. And Brandon, if you're ready, can we finally, since you're back. Is Hackler here? Is Heckler here? Is he here? Is Hackler not here? [9:03] Holly Knight: I didn't see him on there. [9:04] JD: Oh my God. Never mind. No, that's okay Brandon. Can we just show everyone what Hackler won? We can show. Did you have the image? There it is. Oh, Hackler. This neon thing for his little retireaholics room being built for him and shipped to him. So that's it for the chapter champion of 2024. This year you're just going to get like 500 hamburgers and like that. Okay, Brandon, it's good to have you back. Let's do some headlines. This one's a doozy. Where did Chad go? I need him for this one. Did he just cut out? [9:58] Justin: He's scared of this topic. [10:00] Mark: I really was looking for Miller Lights. I was looking for Miller Lights for Bob Euchre. I don't have any. [10:05] JD: Oh God. [10:06] Justin: Go to Bob. [10:06] JD: A few days ago a joint announcement came from Hancock and Vestwell and they are partnering together. I was a bit taken aback. I mean we've seen things like this. The most analogous one I could give you I think would be Ubiquity doing this for principle but this one was really caught me off guard. It's called Future Step. There we go. Let me give you a few points that I've read and I've. And I've seen several media kind of posts as well as we got an email from our local John Hancock person and this. These are some of the details. They say it's open architecture that sounds kind of cool especially because I think it's going to be a small market thing. They claim fully digital which obviously is why I think Aaron Chum's involved Invest. Well, it's third party administrator friendly which obviously for bias reasons I like. And they're. They've always Been a big third party administrator record keeper they say. Competitive pricing, I guess we'll see on that. We haven't seen any details around that. And this is part of John Hancock. This is what they say they're doing here is part of a multi year transformation strategy. Holly, aren't we all on a multi year transformation strategy? I mean I know you are exactly [11:40] Holly Knight: what I was thinking. [11:41] JD: Aaron Schum is quoted saying an unwavering commitment to affordability and inclusivity. We aim to give individuals from all walks of life help to secure a brighter financial future. Okay, let's talk. So here's my statement. You all tell me if it's true or not or what you think about it. So Aaron's technology at thus well has to be cheaper and better than what Hancock thinks it can build on their own. Is that a fair statement? Chime in. [12:21] Justin: I don't know about cheaper but I mean if it's already built and it's really good, why would you try and reinvent the wheel and spend all the money to try and do the same thing? [12:28] JD: Because you already are one of the largest record keepers on the planet. [12:32] Justin: Yeah, but maybe they like the other tech better. [12:34] JD: Well yeah, there you go. [12:38] Mark: So in that micro space JD there's less room for them to be asset gatherers because there's no assets or smaller assets we'll say. And so you're looking at a pay to play, a build type setup in order to cover expenses. And Hancock rolled that out maybe two and a half three years ago where they went with a flat thousand dollar fee and a per participant charge and it kind of blew up on them for a while. And I think this is their way of saying hey, we're still selling in the micro space. We will continue to sell in the micro space but we just can't find a way to be profitable in it. And so we're going to try something new and see if we can find a way to create some margin. The issue I have, and it's the same thing with Simply and Principal. If I want Veswell, I'm going to go to Veswell. What am I getting additionally for having some sort of markup Unless Aaron has dropped his costs lower, significantly lower than what Veswell would charge directly. But they had to create some margin for Hancock in this distribution channel. So if I want Veswell, why don't I just go straight to Veswell? Same thing with American Funds Plan Premier and using the Empower chassis and ubiquity using principle and so forth. [13:52] JD: Well that will be really Interesting when we can see the pricing to see if that's true, Chad, if it's just cheaper to go to Vestwell directly. But they said in these press releases that this partnership is about distribution. Of course Feswell does not have the brand. It doesn't, you know, it doesn't have the distribution that Hancock does. And so obviously that partnership works great for Aaron, but I just am still tripping. I've always thought of Hancock as a small plan provider, even a startup plan provider. And so to hear some of these press releases saying we need to part with them so we can deliver something that works in this kind of, this new like cover the gap age of bringing retirement plans to all walks of life, as they put it. I'm like thinking to myself, you fuckers already do that. Like why do you need Aaron to do that? But I'm going to stay right now and say, Aaron Shum, holy shit. Like that told us, he told us [14:50] Mark: on like day 100 for him that this is what he was going to do. And I are like, no fucking. [14:55] JD: You're stealing from my next point. But Holly, I mean you don't have to chime in here, but I mean, did you see this and did you have any thoughts about what we're saying right now? I mean this is kind of out of left field. [15:06] Holly Knight: Yeah, I mean, I, I don't know. I think I, to be fair, I did not read the article, so I'm kind of talking off cuff. [15:13] JD: But you and robe guy. [15:15] Holly Knight: What's that? [15:16] JD: You and robe guy? [15:17] Holly Knight: Well, see, rope guy, we're twinsies. I, I mean I, I think we're seeing this all across the board. It's like people are just trying to figure out how can we capture the most you, most area here. And it, sometimes that's with partnerships. Expensive. Fintech is expensive. So it's like, you know, as soon as you're, you're in it, it's like you onboard everyone, you get everyone through the process of, of figuring out how to work it, it changes. And so, you know, there's got to be some scalability there for them. I don't think they would do it just to do it. [15:52] JD: So, so what you're saying is that Aaron Shum and Vaswell clearly have built something that runs more efficiently. So much so that, that they want to just partner with it and slap their name on it. Chad, let's tell everyone. You and I sat down with Aaron Shum early days. He was really kind of blueprinting out the, the, the roadway for Veswell and it was me and Chad sitting down with him at a tiny little table in a crowded conference. And, and he said, yes, I'm building this record keeping system. It's going to be new day tech stack, not like these old legacy providers. It's going to run way more efficient, it's going to be more affordable. And he goes, and I'll, I'll be like the intel chip of 401k, like they'll want to buy my record keeping system because it'll be great. And I thought this guy's got a few screws loose. Like I was like, he thinks he's going to build a recordkeeping system and some legacy provider is going to actually like buy it to use it on their system. I was like, this guy's crazy. And Chad, you, you walked away from that meeting more confused than me. [17:07] Mark: I just didn't see how he was going to get these folks that have billions of dollars essentially to, to invest in product and growth to then go out and say he's done it better, let's use his, his solution. I didn't see it as being viable. [17:22] JD: Well, we were wrong. And to me, Aaron obviously proved that he can be successful in other ways. State run plans, people just buying vessel as it is. But this to me is a much bigger proof of concept. From what I heard Aaron tell me he wanted to do this and that must have been, I don't know, seven, six, seven years ago or something. Chad, when was that? I have no idea. [17:45] Mark: It would have been, I was just looking back, I think it was probably 2016, maybe 2017. [17:52] JD: Holy. Like this is this, I don't know if everyone understands this, like this is a big deal for our industry that some massive provider like John Hancock, who's a top 10, top seven provider, saying, okay Aaron shim, you do this better than we do so we need to use your product. I'm, my mind's blown. We can move on. [18:13] Chad: I think it's, I, I think it's a really big deal. But I also think that if you really, if you start peeling back the onion a little bit. We already talked about all this but like where are all these other record keepers moving? It's this digital platform. Yeah, digital base. Quick. You know, again, like the disruptors, like the guidelines and others. And Hancock probably looked at that and goes, that'll take us two, three years to build. We could do this tomorrow with something that's already out there. To me the hard part is when we get into these weird, confusing parts about like who and what in the overlap and the different. Good job Samso. The, in the different, you know, players that are on the team and it can get kind of convoluted, it can confuse people. And I think we're all just trying to see what it's going to look like. But I'm not necessarily all, all we've talked about for years now is consolidation. [19:10] JD: Right. [19:10] Chad: And so they're trying to make sure that they continue down that path and [19:14] JD: this is a little then consolidation. But I like your point. Plan sponsor Mag survey says that Hancock has a proprietary recordkeeping system. I should know that. But I'm going to be transparent. I didn't really know that. I didn't know if they use something else or not. But so they have their own home built thing which kind of ties into this, what we're talking about. Is it possible that, that this product is just a test run, this future step? It's just a test run for Aaron Shum and Veswell? And that when John Hancock says that they are transforming our operating model, that's what the wholesaler sent me or the, the sales guy from, from, from Hancock, that they are transforming our operating model into the future. Does that mean that maybe Veswell actually becomes their record keeping system for everything down the line? [20:08] Justin: I don't know. [20:08] Mark: It could be. I doubt that, but it could be. [20:13] JD: Let me spill the tea. I don't know. It could be. [20:15] Mark: Let me, Let me ask a question in return JD Why do you think Hancock felt the need to acknowledge that it was Veswell system? Why couldn't they have just rolled out a new product, a digital product in the micro space and essentially private, labeled it on the back end without telling the world this is Veswell's system. What's the value in that acknowledgment? [20:39] JD: Maybe they're smart that if they didn't. I'll let Holly talk about some. If you fib about something and then you get caught, you kind of look worse. So why not just be modern day and say we're collabing with these people. I kind of like it. I like the transparency. Holly. [20:53] Holly Knight: I mean maybe their system wasn't so great and they were getting bad feedback and so here's an opportunity to, to rectify that. I mean I did spend like a day with John Hancock on their education platform. This was like seven years ago. So I don't know what it looks like now but I mean it's expensive to build this. So if you have, I will say in the last year I've had lots of Fintech companies that come in and talk to me about their product. And when we dig deep, it's like, okay, well, it doesn't do this, this, and this, and this is what I need. It does this and not everything. And I've had many of them say, like, hey, if we build, we'll build something around you. Can you be our case study? And we'll build this around you at cost. It's not going to cost you anything if you're willing to kind of like use it. Let us use you as our case study. So I think everyone's just trying to figure out how can we answer everybody's, you know, everybody's challenges in one platform. I think it's hard to do. It's really hard to do. [21:59] JD: Bob. Bob Driscoll. We do not chat to the host and panelists. We chat to everyone. As you know, just going to go up on the big screen. But I like your point. I'm thinking, oh, does Aaron Shum do a big deal with Hancock to do all the recordkeeping in the future? And Bob goes, no, J.D. you dummy. They're gonna buy those? [22:19] Mark: No way. [22:20] Holly Knight: Of course. [22:21] Mark: No way. [22:22] Holly Knight: We. I will tell you. Well, so I'm not going to use acronyms because I'm trying not to do any shots tonight. But at my, at a previous firm like that, that was the question. It was like, okay, well, this company's coming in and, you know, this is what they're willing to do, but, well, should we buy them like it is? I think that is a fast solution to, to, you know, to solve some of this. [22:47] JD: We'll see. I don't know. I'd like to say that Aaron Shum has bigger dreams than that. And I know there's a lot of money invested in there, but I think also Aaron Shroom came in this industry as an outsider and kind of a tech guy, and they like their end game, right? They like their out. And so, yeah, if a big company like Hancock, by the way, who's owned by Manulife, who's a monstrous company out of Canada, like, that could be a win win. This is such an exciting industry we're in right now. I feel like I'm in the middle of a fucking action movie. It's so cool. I love it. [23:19] Mark: I think these, I think these large gorillas are realizing rogue guy that having the tech in house doesn't allow them to grow and bob and weave in the way they want to. And I don't think they want to buy a vest. Well, I think they want to partner strategically with tech companies that can bridge the gap that they need to continue to be asset gatherers. [23:41] JD: We'll see. I don't. You're not very exciting to talk to, Chad. I don't. I don't like those outcomes. [23:47] Mark: That's more exciting because then you have all these TEC companies that could actually make an impact in this. [23:51] JD: Oh, Parks. Chad Parks agrees with you now. I agree with you too. [23:54] Mark: That's all I need. [23:57] JD: What the. Is I just gonna say? Oh, no, it's not. Mancock. That was when Manulife bought Hancock. This is. This is vest or fest or something. All right, let's spin the wheel of ice, shall we? And if you don't have your ices today, I swear to God. Trans am. [24:30] Holly Knight: Re. [24:33] JD: Transamerica. 120-year-old company is. Has rebranded. They got a whole new logo, whole new look, and it's. What did they say? I want everyone to know this. Their new brand embodies their mission. It's flexible. Is this. This is real. It's flexible. Optimistic and young at heart. And their tagline was. That I saw in the video was. I don't know if this is their official tagline, but live your best life. They've got bright colors and imagery, and their logo still has the little Transamerica Building pyramid in it. It's just a kind of a new 2.0 version of that. But if you. If you listen to their company talk, they're. They're trying to tell everyone that they're going for the masses, for the everyday people. They can. They can help mark the. The flower shops in the. In the auto body shop on the corner. They can help them all with their financial needs to live their best life. Fun fact. So you do know that they don't even own the Transamerica building. Does everyone know that? Like, they do not own that building anymore. [25:52] Justin: Is it really called the Transamerica Building still? Or are they just. [25:54] JD: It is. It's called the Transamerica Pyramid. [25:57] Mark: Pyramid. [25:58] JD: It's this building in. In San Francisco. But they don't even own it. [26:02] Mark: But they have rights to, like, the majority of the floors, though. It's still them renting out the floors. [26:08] Holly Knight: I think it's the same thing for John Hancock in Boston, though, isn't it? [26:12] JD: I don't know. You tell me. [26:13] Holly Knight: They used to own it, and I think they sold it for a quite a profit. I don't know. Somebody from one of the Boston Bostonians probably will let us know here. Jim. [26:25] JD: Well, I have to say, I. I Like the design work, it definitely looks to me when I saw it. And I love to talk about stuff, especially like graphic design. I was like, okay, it looks like a modernized version of what they are. And when you're 120 year old company and you want to keep like some of your legacy but kind of look fresh and new, like, I'll totally give a thumbs up for what they're doing. You're shaking your head no, Chad. Why? [26:52] Mark: Like, Moody is having his best night ever. [26:55] JD: Is he being a good boy? [26:57] Mark: And his points are on and I agree with them there. It's a full court press on this met pep state. Damn it. [27:03] Justin: Oh. [27:04] Mark: See what they can do. And depending on how it goes, I think they're the next to probably consolidate with somebody [27:15] Justin: and go for the. The cell. [27:18] JD: Can we have. Can Moody. Can Moody be a guest on the show? Is that it? Can he get that compliance? [27:24] Chad: No. [27:24] Justin: Mark allow. [27:25] Chad: No, no. [27:27] Mark: He would be solid. [27:28] Chad: I have Moody muted on my mark. He is. Hear anything he says? [27:33] Mark: Ten times smarter than. Than you would think. Chatting with him, some of creating for clients and for his team. It's exceptional. [27:41] Chad: Do you. Do you think I care about how smart somebody is? [27:46] JD: Don't. Don't get him fired up, Rub guy, because he needs to be a good boy tonight. And we're going to talk about his subject, but only if he's a good boy. Let me help Trans America out for a moment and let's just do a little. Not an ad, but just a little like, hey, let's get to know Trans America for a moment, shall we? We're talking about them. We work in the foreign case plan sponsor mag. Record keeper survey. I went there today. I looked up Transamerica. They're ranked number 13 in total plans with 22,935. Okay. All right. Not bad. Transamerica, 32% of that is 403B plans. 55% is done in partnership with a. I'll just say it on purpose, a TPA. And I think you should up that 55%, you little trans Am. Get that number up. [28:43] Justin: Those are rookie numbers. [28:45] JD: What's that? [28:46] Justin: I said those are rookie numbers. [28:47] JD: Yeah, rookie number. They are third in pooled employer plan assets. So that tequila tasted nasty. With 1.5 billion. They're number one in multiple multi multiple employer plans. Multiple employer plans? [29:05] Mark: Yeah. [29:06] JD: They are number one numero uno in total adopting employers in a pooled employer plan. So you know the number of actual companies that are in it. So that is a quick snapshot of Transamerica living your best life. They're flexible, they're optimistic, and they're young at heart. Rogue guy. They just paid me ten grand for that. [29:34] Mark: And in case you're wondering, the font in their logo is forever form a font. [29:39] JD: It is. Thanks, Chad. [29:41] Mark: Incredibly important to point out that. [29:43] JD: I mean, why? [29:44] Mark: Because they said it in their press release. [29:45] Justin: I didn't read the full release, Chad. [29:47] JD: Why wouldn't it be? That's the obvious choice. I can't imagine any other selection. [29:51] Mark: I just love it that some marketing person thought we should. We should. Definitely. This is important to people now. [29:58] Holly Knight: Yeah. [29:58] JD: All right, Moody, you've been a good boy. And you're. Apparently, you're en fuego. So, Holly. [30:05] Holly Knight: Yes. [30:05] JD: You fly. Do you fly American? American. Spit it out, JD American Airlines. [30:13] Holly Knight: I. I try not to. I actually. I probably fly Delta more than anything. [30:18] Justin: Oh, fancy. [30:19] JD: Well, this is big news. This is another big one that we can dive into here. It's a little more complicated, but a judge has ruled against American Airlines. I don't know why it's so difficult for me to say. And they're all drink all over esg. Let me see if I can map this out for you a little bit. Oh, this is the interesting part. And by the way, I apologize for using this article you're looking at. It's an investment news article, and it's crap compared to Nevin Adams's article on the national association of Plan Advisors. I highly suggest you go look at that one. [31:04] Holly Knight: Yes. [31:04] JD: Wink at me, sexy little guy. He. He highlights or summarizes this thing very, very, very well. And what is happening here. That's a trip. Is they're saying that there was a breach of loyalty, but not a breach of prudence. And I'll. And I'll. And I'll kind of describe that a little bit. But basically, what we're dealing with here is blackrock and their chief executive, Ossifer. Ossifer. [31:35] Justin: How much did you have to drink before the show? [31:37] JD: This is a good show. This is a good show. [31:39] Justin: Great. [31:40] JD: You. [31:41] Mark: You fellas been doing a bit of [31:43] Holly Knight: booze and have you? [31:46] Mark: Oh, brain. [31:47] JD: And if you all remember, Larry Fink came out and wrote this big, like, woke. What is it? Social governance. What's the E stand for? I forget. [32:00] Justin: Environmental. [32:00] Holly Knight: Environmental. [32:01] JD: Social governance. Kind of like memo article, if you will, to white paper to everyone about why they needed to be. God damn it, my dogs are barking. [32:13] Mark: He did this the other day. We were in the middle of a meeting, and the dogs barked, and JD's like, I'm out, Chad. I'll be back. [32:19] Chad: We're on the third headline and it's, it's. We're 40 minutes in. [32:24] JD: You always say that. [32:25] Justin: This is what's a little angry tonight. [32:28] JD: We don't have any other topics. It's all headlines. And. And so BlackRock kind of comes out. The whole world knew it as this, like, very proud environmental, social governance company. Okay. And Larry Fink was saying, like, this is where the world needs to go to yada, yada, yada. Well, apparently the executives at American Airlines were in lockstep with him and, and felt the same way. And there's some, some emails and some evidence that goes back and forth that they're all kind of feeling the same way. And I don't know whether this is good or bad yet, but one of their employees, I think a pilot sues them and says, you're not acting in the best interest of participants following your fiduciary duty because of this whole environmental social governance saying you're picking funds or. Excuse me, let's be clear here. You're picking a money manager that picks funds based and basically BlackRock manages the index funds that they have. So you're picking a manager, mind you, that picks funds within their mutual fund that slant this way. Therefore, that's why I'm suing you. You wouldn't think maybe that would go anywhere. But the judge says, yes, you are. American Airlines. What is it? I said you're. You're breach of loyalty where you're acting prudently because you've got a good process. Everything you're doing is fine. But these are my own words, not the judges. But there's something fishy going on here. You're being led by kind of your political beliefs. And this was a big political battle. And anyways, that so far the judge says, anvil down. Do they have an anvil? Is that what it is? No. What are they? Yeah. [34:16] Holly Knight: Gavel. [34:16] JD: Thank you. [34:18] Justin: Every time, man. [34:20] JD: So Nevin's confused by this. Fred Reese is confused by this. Nevin says very eloquently the divergence between finding. Between a finding of disloyalty and one of prudence strikes this writer as unusual. Beautiful. That beautiful. Beautiful. Nevin. That was well put. [34:44] Justin: Good job, Devin. [34:45] JD: Not as slick. But Fred Reese says, and we all love frags, seems confused by this. And he says the opinion is, to say the least, unusual to actually say someone's doing something dirty. But there's no prohibitive transaction and they're not being. Not prudent. Okay, so I guess the question for y' all is, unless you can go on. Off on another tangent if you want to, but Chad, or let's go to Holly. Is a plan sponsor responsible to understand the underlying investments and the methodology of a mutual fund company? Too deep? [35:23] Holly Knight: I think that's. I mean, it'd be great if they did, but they don't. I mean, that's. I think that's a little bit Right. That's a high expectation. Yeah, I'll. I'll leave it at that. I'll. [35:36] JD: Chad, I would say to you, yeah, they are supposed to do that. That's exactly what they're supposed to do as fiduciaries. [35:44] Mark: No, I disagree. I disagree. I mean, look at the material underlying investments, and if those investments are getting into this field, then I think you could have some basis for your argument. But saying that they have a belief in this area when it has no material impact on your investors, your beneficiaries that you are a fiduciary for, I don't see how you have any. [36:14] JD: Okay, so you're. You're answering me though. You're answering me correctly. You're saying, yeah, they do have a responsibility to understand how the investments, the [36:24] Mark: underlying belief in those methodology. The underlying methodology, yeah. [36:28] JD: But you're just saying. Just because they go on this social slant doesn't mean that that's some type of warning sign. I think that's. [36:36] Mark: They're on a social slant. But that social slant has not impacted those investors or their beneficiaries. [36:42] JD: No. And by the way, to back you up, and I'm sure many people in the chat bar know this, there is no proof of any real financial loss here. So we. No one's claiming that, to be honest with you. Like, that's not what this is about. This is about. There was the article that I put up. There it is. Sorry, it says this is cartel like behavior. What they're worried about is, to Chad's point, there was no real losses or like a bad investment that happened. They're just saying, whoa, whoa, whoa, you can't do this. We know you American Airlines, you like this social stuff. So does Larry Fink in blackrock. You all are sending emails about it and doing this stuff. And you cannot take your political agenda and fucking invest your participants money based on that. And that's what they're not. [37:26] Mark: That's the point. That's why the duty of prudence has not been nullified or shown any fault. Because none of that has occurred so far. I mean, it's almost like cart before the horse. If they felt that this was the case, then wait until there was a breach and then file your suit. [37:41] JD: I don't know. Chad, you're. The judge disagrees with you. [37:45] Mark: No, the judge does not. [37:47] JD: Right. [37:47] Mark: The judge has said there's been no breach in duty of prudence. [37:50] JD: Prudence. [37:51] Mark: There could be a breach in duty of loyalty which is not covered under the Employee Retirement Income Security act. [37:58] JD: But you cannot have conflicts of interest. Okay, let's stop for a second, Chad. I love when Chad and I debate. [38:05] Mark: And do they yet, J.D. does they? [38:07] JD: Hang on, hang on. Listen to me for a second. All that's fine. Doing your prudence and all that type of stuff. But first and foremost you have a responsibility to act in the best interest of the plan participants. And if there are conflicts of interest or self dealing or weird shit happening, regardless of the fact of where it's done, prudently, clearly by this judge, you can be in foul. Like this is not okay. You're not allowed to do. [38:32] Mark: But is that the argument that they chose BlackRock? They chose BlackRock even though the underlying investments are not in this field yet. They chose BlackRock because they have aligned visuals on this? [38:44] JD: Or no, no, no. They continued to work with BlackRock and allow BlackRock to handle a big chunk of their participants assets knowing that they had this social slant. And that is. [38:58] Mark: That social slant has not. Maybe I'm wrong, but that social slant has no impact yet. [39:05] JD: No. [39:05] Mark: On these participants or their beneficiaries. The fuck is the argument? [39:08] Holly Knight: Preemptive, for sure. [39:10] JD: What's preemptive? [39:11] Mark: Good luck. So that CEO. There's a CEO that does a whole lot of coke. Let's start suing them because they're in line with. Yeah. Thanks, Mark. This is ridiculous. [39:20] Chad: Us. [39:21] JD: I like it. Well, I. I think who's. [39:25] Chad: Who's doing coke? [39:28] Mark: Some CEO out there. So nobody can do business with that company because there's someone at the helm. Damn it. That's making bad decisions. [39:36] JD: Let's. Let's put a cap on this and talk about the. The ramifications of this and this. What people are worried about. Are you drinking Whistle Pig? What is that? [39:44] Mark: El Mejor Tequila. [39:47] JD: So the shape of the bottle. I thought you're just swinging some whistleblow. If this. And again they can always appeal. And. And we don't have a specific judgment yet. And I think it's. It was Fred Reich or some. Some other attorney in the article I read that said it's really hard to come up with a monetary value for this. Because Chad's actually super, right? When he goes, there was no, like, financial loss here. Maybe quite the contrary, depending how you look at it. You can look at those things from a lot of different lenses. [40:16] Holly Knight: But. [40:16] JD: But it's going to be difficult to come up with a number. But if this does go through and there is a number and it doesn't get appealed, their concern is that it's a heyday for attorneys now like Schlichter and everyone to run around and look for these situations where there's these. I mean, obviously blackrock's massive, right? They're everywhere to look for these lawsuits. So this is why it's a big deal. But I, I'm ashamed, Not ashamed. I, I think the concept of the argument here is, is you shouldn't just dismiss it. It's very interesting that if you are, as a fiduciary, supposed to act in the best interest of your participants and you definitely shouldn't let your political and. Or social beliefs get in the way of that. And I think that's what this lawsuit's all about, which is why it makes the headlines and why it's interesting and exciting. That's all. You know, let's call a spade a spade, right? That's probably a. That doesn't. That analogy makes no sense. Call a spade a spin. But this is what we're talking about. Holly. [41:17] Holly Knight: Yes. [41:18] JD: You hate BlackRock, right? No, I don't. I'm kidding. Holly. [41:28] Holly Knight: Yes, sir? [41:29] JD: Give me a quick one. Participant education. You've been doing it for a little while now. I'm not referencing you're turning 51 in this year, but we all know that you are, but you've been doing for a little while. How can you let us know how you think it's changed in a big way? I mean, we went through Covid. There's all these digital zoom meetings and stuff like, tell us how you feel your job or, or the whole concept of, of participant education has evolved a little bit. Yeah, it has. [42:00] Holly Knight: It definitely has. I. I think. Oh, that's such a complex question. I'll say this. I think, you know, when you look at the generations and we've talked about this a little bit before, but the generations coming in, the generations that are here now, the gen Alphas that are coming in like five to seven years, totally digital natives, they've never known anything other than that. Right. [42:21] JD: So I think their financial advice on TikTok, they do. [42:26] Holly Knight: And that's. I just. What's the. I just heard some kind of new acronym but new monocle. What sort? For like, Finn. [42:37] Chad: Isn't that one of those things you put in your eye? [42:39] JD: Yeah, Monopoly. [42:41] Holly Knight: No, like these fine. You know, on Tick Tock, they've got these financial gurus who are like. And they've got like huge, huge followings. Right. There's a piece. [42:51] Chad: I sure do. Yeah. [42:53] Holly Knight: There's a piece of me that's excited about that because right there people are engaged and I, I love that. [42:58] JD: I love that they're talking about financial stuff instead of. Yeah, the best. Cool. [43:03] Chad: Je Tik Tok ban now, isn't it going away? [43:07] JD: Not yet. Not yet. [43:07] Justin: Four days. [43:09] Chad: But what happens finance influencers on Tik Tok, where they go Elon or M [43:15] Justin: are gonna buy it. [43:16] JD: Ro. Guy, Holly's trying to talk about participant education. [43:19] Chad: Oh, sorry, Holly. [43:21] Holly Knight: You're all good. It's okay. I love you, Roby Guy. [43:25] Mark: I don't know how to do that. [43:26] JD: I don't know how to do that. Jesus Christ. [43:28] Holly Knight: I just, I, I think, you know, I've, I, as have you, I've really leaned in to AI in the last year. I mean, I've spent a lot of time. [43:37] Justin: Drink? [43:38] Holly Knight: Oh, yeah. I will drink for that. Oh, I gotta, I gotta drink a bad drink. [43:44] Mark: Yeah. [43:45] JD: Although bad white wine. [43:48] Holly Knight: I don't really drink this. [43:49] JD: White wine would qualify, but. [43:52] Holly Knight: Oh, okay. Well, I'll drink. [43:53] JD: Oh, yeah. My bad, everybody. My bad. [43:59] Holly Knight: I just think I'm excited. I, I [44:03] JD: keep going. Sorry, we're just derailing you every time [44:07] Holly Knight: at every corner to. Oh, see, my menopause brain just took over and I forgot what I was gonna say. [44:15] JD: That was our fault, not yours. You were talking about the Tick tockers and how all these different generations see things differently and. [44:22] Holly Knight: Yeah, I just, I think that it's an exciting time to be in this industry. We are seeing just a huge shift that's happening in like, in so many different ways. I think that the artificial intelligence, the, you know, the help that we're going to be able to have from all of this tech development. So let me back up the train a little bit. When I first moved to New Hampshire, and this was like eight years ago, nine years ago, I was working at UNH and I was working with some faculty there. And one of the professors at the business school was. [44:52] JD: Keep going, keep going, you can catch up. [44:54] Holly Knight: Talking about. [44:55] Chad: I missed that one. [44:56] Holly Knight: This was 10 years ago and he was talking about big data. He's like, listen, 10 years from now, all this data that we've been collecting, it's going to make A huge impact. And he was talking to companies about, like, this is what you should be thinking about. And, you know, back then, it was like, okay, I didn't really understand. [45:14] JD: Who cares? [45:16] Holly Knight: Nobody understood it. [45:17] JD: It seemed like a big company problem, not a everybody problem. [45:20] Holly Knight: Right, exactly. And I remember I was teaching a class, and so, you know, these were business students. And I remember I put my. I was sharing my screen, and one of the students was like, oh, are you looking at some new boots? And I was like, what are you talking about? And it didn't even occur to me. But the Amazon. Like, there was an Amazon ad that was running along the bottom that had, like, boots popping up. [45:43] JD: Yeah. [45:44] Holly Knight: It was like white noise to me. And I'm like, what are you. What are you talking about? And I was. And I was like, huh? And she goes, well, obviously you've been looking at boots because there's boots running along the bottom of your. You know, your thing. [45:54] JD: Oh, yeah. Okay. I'm sorry. Yeah. [45:55] Holly Knight: Yeah, right. [45:56] JD: So I didn't think you're looking at boots at that time. She knew enough. You're seeing that ad that you're. You're in the market for some new boots. Yeah. Okay. [46:03] Holly Knight: So that. That generative, like, you know, that it's machine learning. And I. I think going forward, it's going to be really, really interesting to see how people kind of, like, you know, lean into this and engage with this, because I think it's going to be a big game changer. Yeah. [46:22] JD: So when you say that, and then [46:23] Justin: I gloss over the fact that she [46:25] JD: was teaching, and then I read. [46:27] Chad: Whoa. What? What? [46:28] JD: Let's not derail. Let's stay foreign k. For a moment. And I. I read Nate Moody's comments about automating financial planning advice based off of data. And you talk about the boots. I mean, you're an educator. So I guess what you're saying, what I just heard you say is, like, you kind of agree with all that. Like, you want to use information and data to help kind of push people towards decisions versus trying to convince them to make decisions on their own. [47:00] Holly Knight: 100%. [47:01] JD: Yeah. Okay. Well, to me, that's a big deal. That's a very big deal. When it comes to someone who. I feel as though you're an expert in participant education. For you to feel that way is a profound statement. Like, we need. [47:20] Holly Knight: I mean, I. I believe. You know, and I. I think I told you guys this the last time I met with you, but, you know, I. I was with a thousand participants last year, so. A thousand People that I sat down with. And I just think it's hard to really, I mean, everybody's got a story, everybody's at a different point in their life. And it's hard to really kind of, you know, match a human with a person. We can't, we can't really direct as much change as we want to without really leaning into technology. We have to. And I think the younger generation, they're looking for that older generation. Maybe it's a little bit, you know, that's, it's a little bit different for them. Different challenges, different ideas. But I think we really, as a just in our industry, I think we need to lean into this. Otherwise we're, you know, we're not really doing a good service to the people we're trying to serve. And I think we have the technology and the resources to do it, and we have the responsibility, in my opinion. [48:21] JD: Chad, you had a thought? So I shut up for a second. [48:24] Mark: I looked at the clock and realized how much time we have. [48:27] JD: Oh, there's no clock. [48:30] Mark: Okay. [48:30] Chad: There's for sure a clock. [48:35] Mark: I'll ask then, because it came up in the chat bar. What do participants, and I'm using that term specifically, not, not employees, but participants in these plans, what do they actually want from us from an education standpoint? And I think if, I think honestly the first thing they want is to know that they can trust the resource that are making the decisions or recommendations that they're receiving. So if we're going to auto enroll them, if we're going to auto escalate them, if we're going to default them, they want to. They want to believe that what we're doing on their behalf is the right thing. And then beyond that, I think the truth of the matter is that they don't really want 401k education. And forgive me because I've said this in the past, but they want, like, what should I do with my next dollar earned education? Should it be used to pay down my car? Should it be used to pay down my credit card debt? Should it be used to invest? Should it be used for a 529 plan? That's. It's financial counseling. That's what I think they actually want. And I think the retirement plan is a place in which we can give that to them because the auto features are going to pick up the slack and keep people involved. But that's, I guess that's a question like, what do these participants actually want from an educator? Because I don't think it's 401k education, [50:07] JD: Chad there. Or even in between all those words. Are you saying that they want us to do it for them? [50:16] Mark: Yeah, I think the majority of the people do. If you look at those who want to be active in their investing, it's the minority for sure. [50:23] JD: I, you know how they say the cobblers? This is literally going to be a perfect analogy how the cobblers. Kids get no shoes or something like that. My daughter's 26, 27, something like that. And her 401k, she's got a decent chunk of money she's been putting away in like two different 401ks. And she's always, not always. I, I think she's invested in cash. And her, when she comes to me, she's like, I'm like, I want to sit her down and be like, okay, let me talk about asset allocation. And we talk about diversity when we talk these different sectors. And her kind of vibe is like, I just want you to tell me what to do. Like, I don't, I don't want to, like, learn it. I want you to just tell me. [51:09] Mark: I want you to know my situation and tell me you're, you're agreeing. [51:12] Holly Knight: Like, I mean, I think, I think that's true. I mean, there's certainly, there are some people, but I've also met with people. I wish. I. And I'll send it to you guys if you're, you're interested in seeing it. But I got a great email from this participant. I think this kind of sums it up for me and how, why I do it the way I do it. But she sent me an email. I started working with her. When I started working with her, she had zero financial literacy. Zero. Right. And she came in through the retirement plan. So we kind of like sat down and gave her some goals and we worked out what, you know, what her plan was. And then she's like, hey, listen, I've got some money sitting in my, you know, my ira, my roth, and I'm not sure what to do with it. I've got a little in my brokerage account. Tell me what to do. And I said, no, listen, I can tell you what to do. At that point, I had known her well enough. We've been together for a year. Like, I knew her situation. I can tell you what to do, but I have the sense that you really want to understand this. So I'm going to, instead of me telling you what to do, I'm going to give you an exercise. And so I gave her like a Morningstar, you know, style, locks and her fun lineup. And here are your criteria. I want you to fill this in and then come back to me and we'll talk. And so she fast forward. It was like a year later, and she sent me this email and she goes, listen, I just wanted to kind of update you. What I learned from you was really, really helpful. And not only did I, like, learn about this, but I really, really got excited about it. So I signed up for Harvard Business School, like, you know, online free course for six months about investing. And I learned, like, so now she's talking to me about, like, Sharpe ratios and, like, all this stuff, and I was like, oh, my gosh, right? Like, so here was someone. I could have just told her the answer, and then that would be. [52:52] JD: But Holly, I love that story. That's such a cool story. I mean, that's why you're here. But. But that's not. That's not. We can't scale that, right? That's not forever. [53:01] Holly Knight: Well, I think we can scale it, though. I mean, I think, yes. I mean, it's a little bit of an outlier. That one's a little bit, you know, over the top. I like turtles, but I. I do. I. I truly believe that. Especially this. This younger generation coming in. They are thirsty, hungry. They want to know more, they want to learn it. It's not just about, tell me what to do and, you know, I'm gonna get rich. They want to understand it for themselves. And so that's kind of the approach I've always taken. And I don't know. I. I think that there's. There's a way to scale that for sure. [53:36] JD: Moody is in fuego. Yeah, it's good. I. I'm kind of siding with him. I. But you said it earlier, Holly, like, you believe in this kind of using the data and. And pushing them. But I think what you just told me was what? At the same time, it's like, hey, if people have a thirst to learn about this shit, then we should be able to provide them those outlets as well, because that will help them save more. So there's the moral of the story is everyone is different, right? [54:04] Mark: Did you see. Do you see Brian Williams comments like, ask the participant, do you want the. The five second, this is what you should do? Do you want the five minute education with this is what you should do? Do you want the 25 minute education with this is what you should do? I'm adding that this is what you should do, but I think that's true because there are certain Times where I want to learn from like, I trust you tell me what to do. [54:26] JD: That's well put. He should like do a podcast or something. [54:32] Holly Knight: I will tell you, like, I mean I think I've told the story before. When I first got into, I was in the wealth management side, right. So I didn't really, I didn't know anything about retirement and I started in the third party administration side. And so I remember sitting with a financial, a retirement financial advisor with a participant and you know, he's like, how old are you? Okay, I'm gonna put you in the Target A fund. And I was just like, that's not acceptable to me. Like that might be the right, that might be the right solution for this person, but I don't think that should ever be the default. I feel like we have an obligation and a responsibility to actually educate people. [55:12] JD: Well, according to Chad, I'm not going to have time tonight to pitch my own artificial intelligence company. But I think with artificial intelligence we probably could solve a lot of these problems. Like no offense to the physical human bodied advisors in the chat bar, but you know, artificial intelligence could have the 5 minute, 20 minute, 30 minute conversation and provide different things. So the future is going to look very different. And I think that's kind of the moral of the show tonight is like I said it in the very beginning for the people who tuned in really early. I was seeing like, wow, I, I always say like, oh, things are going to change. But now I really do feel like, holy. I think my industry could look entirely different from what it looked like 10, 15 years ago in the next five, 10 years. And it's crazy funny that you say that. [56:14] Mark: When Justin, Mark, Devin and I met this week, I said I kind of have a pretty good idea of what 2025 is going to look like. And unlike prior years where I feel like I can see a three year horizon, I honestly have no clue right now. 2026 could be entirely different than 2025. 2027 could look like a whole different industry. Like there's so much right now. [56:38] Holly Knight: So much so. I mean I know you guys lean into AI too. I'll go for that. [56:42] JD: Oh, I like tackler Hagler's here finally. I didn't know that. [56:48] Holly Knight: You know, when you're looking at like, I think the, the common, you know, understanding is around chat gbt because that's, that's the most, you know, the streamlined but okay, fair. But I think I look at it in phases, right. So I started with this like a year, a little Over a year ago. At that phase when you're first jumping into to this type of environment, it's like all about efficiencies, how can I make my life easier, better, you know, more efficient, streamlined, blah, blah, blah. I think the second phase of it is about critical thinking. How can I change the way I do X, Y or Z? And I think the potential with that when it comes to financial education is just really, really exciting. I think there's a lot that we can do here. So I'm excited and I'm grateful that I'm in a company that's going to allow me to do that. So this is good. [57:46] JD: I think the hashtag, not your typical advisor takeaway from that is there's probably no more Paramount time than now historically to make sure that you don't get run over by all the changes. And you stay, you keep your eyes open, you keep your ear to the ground and you stay really open minded to all these things that are happening in front of you. And don't get stuck in a rut of running your business the same way you always have. Somehow this is going to be very holy night of me. But somehow that's what the universe is telling me right now is like you've got to evolve and change. Like you can't just keep doing things the same way over and over and over again. And, and I think that's more true now than ever. And so if you want to succeed, you want to do well, you want to fucking grind and crush it, I think you need to be thinking about all this technology and all the things that are changing this evolution. So blah, blah, blah, blah blah. Chad, do you have to go somewhere? Because we were planning a three hour show tonight so you didn't eat dinner [59:00] Mark: at some point, but that's why you [59:02] JD: have that bottle of whatever you're drinking that will sustain you. Holly, you like making money? I've been drinking a lot of vodka in my free time. [59:17] Mark: I always prepare for Mark's laugh in that and it gets me live. [59:22] JD: I was like, holly, we all like making money. So that's why we tune into drunk sock tips. Brandon's still awake. [59:38] Holly Knight: Not good about following the chat bar. [59:44] JD: This company has 52 billion in revenue for 2023, mark. That's an increase of 8% from the previous year. The stock has almost doubled in the last six months. But that's not really indicative of its history. It's, it's actually been quite down since the old days. There's a timeline for you. The old days Pre Covid. It has over 130,000 employees. And the ticker is. And I'll drink. Do I drink for a ticker? I don't know. [1:00:23] Chad: No, no. [1:00:25] JD: A, A L. That's right. It's American Airlines. Those social ESG loving That counts though. What do you think, Mark? Do we buy the stock or do we not buy the stock? Somebody help me out. Where's it at right now? [1:00:44] Mark: American Airlines 1829. [1:00:47] JD: Oh, what's its high like it's up in the 50s or something right? Back in the day. [1:00:54] Mark: Yeah, I mean it's been pretty flat for the year on the 5 year [1:01:00] JD: back in the 2017s or 18s it was like 59 or something. What happened to the airlines, man? Covid them up and then, and then they just. You haven't even recovered from that. Actually got up pre covered, but sorry I'm not the robe guy. So. Let's go. Robbie, what do you think? [1:01:17] Chad: See this, this is the hard part because I just. Sometimes I don't even feel like I should have to give a logical reason why. It's just obvious, right? Like can you just look at the name of the company? Hey, raise your hand if you like America. [1:01:37] JD: I do. [1:01:39] Chad: If you don't, are you un American? Okay, Justin, go yourself. And the second question is, who likes to travel and go places on a plane? [1:01:49] JD: I do. I do, I do. [1:01:51] Chad: Do you? What do you use to go do that an airline. Two great words put together equals a good thing, right? [1:01:58] JD: I like to choose the ones that have nice lie down seats in first class. But that's just me. [1:02:03] Chad: Well, okay, who. Yeah, whatever, dude, I get it. You're on a different pay scale, whatnot. We're not talking about Frontier or Spirit right now. No offense, Devin, I know you fly those airlines. It's easy on the air. At least an American, you can pick your own seat. Like I. Yeah, I fly Southwest all the time because bags are free or whatever, but I get that. [1:02:29] JD: Did you say Southwest? [1:02:31] Chad: Oh yeah, for us poor people. Jd oh my God. [1:02:35] JD: Oh my God. [1:02:36] Chad: But I get anxiety from picking my or getting in line or having more next year. [1:02:42] Justin: Mark, don't worry. [1:02:44] Chad: But when I. Dude, when I fly American Airlines, I feel like I've hit the lottery because I'm like, I can pick seat 18D. Like this is great. I'm impressed. [1:02:57] JD: Almost typed. I almost just typed let's go Brandon in the chat bar. But I said, no, that's not good. I'm not trying to make a political message. I just was like America. America. [1:03:06] Chad: So anyways, I'm just blabbing on here. Obviously you know my answer. Like, it's an airline in America. Buy it. [1:03:16] JD: Wow, I never knew you're such a nationalist. My God, what's that? [1:03:21] Chad: Live in a country that I would. If I didn't want to be here, I'd just go somewhere else. [1:03:27] Mark: Southwest stock price is at 32 a share. I have a significant holdings in airlines in general that purchase all the. The top five, essentially. [1:03:38] Chad: Top seven. Stop, stop, stop. Every time we do this and you throw logic. Personal stock portfolio, I begin to learn. You have a lot of money, man. Like, you are rushing it. [1:03:54] JD: Significant [1:03:57] Chad: holding is in airlines. Oh, I bought Buffalo Wild Wings and it was 38 cents. [1:04:02] JD: And I just understand. [1:04:04] Chad: Open my. My brokerage account. Buy a bunch of. How much money do you have, Missouri Guy. [1:04:11] JD: Understand something, though, Chad, that Southwest and American Airlines, although they're in the same sector, are very different in terms of. Of revenue and what they do. Like, American Airlines is a behemoth compared to Southwest. But the. The for sure, yeah. Price to earnings ratio of American Airlines is wacky. Like, it's super high. But Rogue Guy doesn't care about that. So robe guy says buy American Airlines, right? [1:04:40] Chad: The. The last thing I'll mention is how else are we gonna get places if you don't want to drive in on land? [1:04:48] JD: You don't have a monopoly on planes. [1:04:50] Chad: You're gonna go on a plane. Buy the stock. It's a plane. Go. You're gonna go. If it's not American Airlines, you're gonna rebrand it. Cool new logo. [1:05:00] Mark: Okay, I just typed it into Bing and there's a little analyst rating, and it says bye. [1:05:05] JD: Yeah, trust me, I'm not. Whatever Rogue guy says, you need to do it. [1:05:11] Chad: But J.D. honestly, that's. That's like a no brainer. Like, I. I feel like you're giving me these little softball tosses these days, like, oh, hey, I'm gonna pump up your numbers. [1:05:22] JD: Dude, that's so fly. [1:05:24] Chad: That's just an easy one. [1:05:25] JD: Those are rookie numbers in this racket. All right, fun trivia question before we go to something else. Top three airlines by revenue. Do you want to know? Do you want to know? Southwest by revenue, not Southwest by annual revenue. [1:05:44] Mark: Got to be American number one. Delta two. [1:05:46] JD: Oh, good, Chad. That shocked me. I didn't understand Delta enough. So Delta is number one. [1:05:54] Holly Knight: Yeah. [1:05:54] JD: In revenue. [1:05:55] Mark: United. [1:05:56] JD: United Emirates. [1:05:58] Justin: Are you talking about or just what states? [1:06:02] JD: No, no, just worldwide. Emirates is like, way down there, but because I saw the top 50 so this is revenue. Delta, United and American Airlines. It's number three. All U. S. Based companies dominate the airline sector. Yes. Silent J, you feel like you have a thought on this? [1:06:25] Justin: No, I was just thinking it's really cool that American Airlines filed a chapter 11 and then also took away a lot of their employees stock. But they're, they got high revenue. [1:06:33] JD: This is really cool. [1:06:34] Chad: Awesome company. [1:06:35] JD: That's the way we do that when you run a company, bro. How else do you pay for those Lambos? Quickly, before we go to chat bar champion, I do want to say that the waves webinar yesterday, I was so stoked on the amount of people that showed up for that thing. And I am super psyched on all the people that continue to put their credit card information into Tony and I's website and pay us for those little things we built. Holy shit. I had no idea. Everyone's going to do that. And we'll table this for another show. But I've had a lot of artificial intelligence haters, shall I say, send me some emails. People that feel threatened by artificial intelligence answering complex 401k questions. And that's the conversation I want to have. But we'll, we'll. We'll table it for another show. But my God, Tony says. Love y'. All. Yeah. I was blown away at the amount of people that signed up for our shit. So an advertisement from Tony and me and Waze is we will continue to like, make that thing better, work on it, and treat you as good as we can as. As our customers that are using it. And if you remember, I. We need the community. We need you to stump chat 401k with questions it can't handle because then it just makes it smarter and stronger. And, and so more to come from Tony and I in terms of our community and like working with you guys that paid for our chad. Who's smarter, Janie Carlson or Chad? That's an obvious question. Okay, it's me, Chat Bar champion. Brandon, I hope you can handle this. We want you to do like you used to do, remember the people, and throw together a poll so the audience can vote. Holy Chad Parks. Oh, they just went into Chad. [1:08:38] Holly Knight: GPT. [1:08:39] JD: Okay, Justin, your vote for chapter champion. [1:08:43] Justin: I mean, it's pretty well known at this point, I think, right, Nate? [1:08:48] JD: Do we just. Do we just smash it down now? Let's let the audience vote Chad. [1:08:52] Mark: Nate. [1:08:54] JD: J.D. yes, J.D. i will vote Nate. Rogue guy. [1:09:00] Chad: I. I don't. I don't know yet. [1:09:02] JD: Okay. Rogue guy. [1:09:03] Mark: Not, Not. Not Nate, because he refuses how about this? [1:09:07] Chad: You know back in the day when it'd be like Tiger versus the field. I'll take the field. Everybody but Nate. [1:09:12] JD: Okay. How about that, Rob? Guys. Okay. Holly. [1:09:15] Justin: What a little. [1:09:16] Holly Knight: I. I was gonna say Nate. He seems like. Okay. Brandon. [1:09:21] Chad: Perfect. [1:09:21] JD: Brandon, if you can remember this for the poll, I'd like you to put Nate as an option. And the other option is Not Nate. [1:09:36] Holly Knight: Great. [1:09:37] JD: If not nate wins. [1:09:39] Justin: Jesus. [1:09:43] JD: Not Nate is taking off right now. Can you guys see the results or just me? [1:09:49] Chad: No. [1:09:50] JD: Oh, not Nate is blowing up. Oh, Nate too good. [1:10:01] Chad: You voted for your. [1:10:03] Holly Knight: You loser. [1:10:06] JD: Okay, so not neat. And. And I will share it. Brand. We're done with that. Yeah. Share the result. They've seen the results. So not Nate. Tune in for our next show and oh, private message me your address. Not Nate. Because I will be sending you, you know, who knows, cat food, hula hoops, inflatable toys. I don't know what, but I'm gonna [1:10:33] Holly Knight: send you some necessities right there. [1:10:35] JD: Yes. Is he an advisor? Chad? He is advisor. I gotta stand her 100 bucks. That's no fun for me. I like to go through the hundred dollar mark, but I'll stay under it. Is that the. Is that the limit? Yes. We've done. This is a past that has happened before. Someone has gotten a pregnancy test. We are the retireholics and we are so fortunate to have Holly Knight back on this show with us. And congrats, Holly, on your new venture with Alera Group. And. And kudos to them for swooping you up. [1:11:16] Holly Knight: I see it. So Jim or Samson just put it so. So he's the one that actually connected Mango and I. That's how I. [1:11:27] JD: Right, Christian. Christian Mango is an Alero group. Yeah. [1:11:30] Holly Knight: Yeah, I knew Christian, but I. Josh was the one that introduced us again. [1:11:35] JD: I'm sorry about that. I've never been impressed with Christian Mango like he's kind of [1:11:41] Justin: sounds like you keep saying Christian Mingle. [1:11:43] JD: Just kidding. Christian, you're awesome. And your name. I mean mango. The mangoes are far better. Right Robe guy. Than oranges and tangerines and shit. [1:11:54] Chad: Those are probably top five fruit for sure. For sure. [1:11:58] JD: They're just beautiful. [1:11:59] Justin: Especially in a beer. [1:12:01] JD: Chad. [1:12:02] Chad: No to eat. [1:12:03] JD: Justin. [1:12:05] Justin: Yeah. [1:12:06] JD: Mark. [1:12:08] Chad: J.D. [1:12:09] JD: all three of you happen to be on the golf team that just lost at our sales team event up in Cordova. My God. I didn't. I just realized that the three of you. [1:12:22] Mark: We didn't lose. We did not lose. You won. Positive about it. [1:12:29] JD: Are all you can call 300 yards. [1:12:31] Justin: J.D. can you stop? I don't want to repeat. [1:12:33] Holly Knight: Show me your short. I want to see your short game. I know you pre cut. [1:12:37] JD: Chad, Add you guys are all losers in my book when it comes to the game of golf. Is Devin still on? Devin, you're a winner, and I'm a winner. And that's the difference between me and you and these three. Everyone out there that tuned in, we love you. We appreciate you for showing up. You're awesome. Chats out, and I'm out. We are the retireholics. We are changing the retirement plan industry one beer at a time, and we'll see you next time. Peace out, people. We love you. [1:13:17] Mark: Thank you, Holly. [1:13:18] Holly Knight: I love you guys. [1:13:19] JD: Thank you. Thank you, Holly. [1:13:21] Holly Knight: Napa. [1:13:22] JD: Oh, Drake, that'll be there. Chad's a little aspa.