Financial Education vs. Technology: What Advisors Miss

[0:00] JD: I was going to nail the song. This was a technical fucking issue. [0:04] Chad: Hey, go acapella, dude, we don't need to hear the beat. [0:07] JD: Just tell us. Just go on acapella. All right, intro the gas. I don't know what's wrong with my shit today. [0:15] Chad: Oh, God. [0:16] JD: All right. [0:17] Mark: Well, she's a first. Sorry. [0:21] Justin: She's a personal finance expert that's referred to as a walking Wikipedia of money, has a huge passion for helping people and a love for educating runs deep in her blood. Her education and experience has brought her to work with quite the gamut of clients ranging from Fortune 500 companies, small advisory groups, to individuals all across the world ranging from the US to Greece and South Korea. And come to think of it, her vast knowledge on all things finance is probably worth quite the ebitda. But anyways, she was the second place winner at the annual Toastmasters competition as well as a featured TEDx sports speaker on personal finance education as a money expert, offering online and in person training. Ladies and gentlemen, the CEO of Master Money, Jennifer Sahade. [1:09] JD: Thanks for being. [1:09] Justin: You guys heard me. Did I get your last name right? I forgot to ask you that. [1:13] Jennifer Sahadi: Yeah, it's generally Sahadi and you can remember it as. I'm not a hater. [1:18] JD: He definitely didn't get that right. Well, you raid justin on a 0 to 10 and if you'd like to give them more constructive criticism, maybe you could hit me up. I'll give you his cell number. You could text him, let him know what he could do to improve his intros. A little bit of housekeeping. Yes, we're going to play chap our champion today. So get ready, get going, chat it up. Chat, chat away. And Jennifer, pay attention to chat bar because you'll be voting for your favorite in into the semifinal. So whoever's funniest or most intelligent or whatever floats your boat, they get your vote. Acrosten Mark will start it now. Jennifer, are you familiar with acrosan? I'm not. Of course you're not. I'm really not feeling it. Brandon, right now this text bothering me. I need Shannon to help me breathe through this. Acro sin. Jennifer is if you say initialisms or any acronyms then you must drink from your penalty drink. I've got a very stiff OJ and vodka and you've got some white wine. Very nice. And so we will. That game will start now. Let's go straight. Headlines, headlines, headlines. Do we have a little intro bit for headlines? [2:43] Chad: Oh, here we go. More, more things to go. [2:45] Mark: You got to Position. Brandon, for more tech right now. Never mind. [2:49] JD: That's not going to work either. [2:51] Mark: Yeah, [2:53] Chad: that's not going to happen. [2:59] Jennifer Sahadi: As usual. [3:01] JD: What do we do for headlines? We steal from Nev over at the ara. I thought this was a juicy kind of cool article. Empower us at it. Okay. [3:14] Chad: American Retirement. Oh, okay. [3:21] JD: Empower is suing the people who own www.empower.com. that's pretty juicy stuff. That's the wrong. [3:34] Mark: Does World Wide Web count? Yeah, there we go. [3:37] Chad: My buttons are not working when I hit them right away, so it's a little bit of delay. I think tech is a problem today, boys and gills. [3:44] JD: If you try to go to empower.com, you will not go to Empower the record keeper they have. Empoweretirement.com I believe is their. Their address. Yes. Mark, you look like you have a thought. [3:58] Chad: I'm just wondering if the dot, what you're saying is also an initialism. [4:03] Jennifer Sahadi: Okay, [4:06] Mark: so. So that Empower site has never been there in power site. I hate to say it, but I've never actually gone on there and looked. But how are they suing for that? The other group has rights, probably paying for it. [4:16] JD: So yeah, this is the juicy part. Apparently the people that own Empower can I not the Empower site are trying to sell it to like Empowers competitors or something for like millions of dollars. And they're at. And. And they're trying to put a Empower and paint them in a corner and really kind of harass them to pay them a massive amount of money for it. And if they're giving it to their competitors. I don't know. You read the article. It's not. It's at a website that Nevin runs. [4:50] Mark: Is that what is happening to pooled employer plan suck.org? i'm trying to sell people trying to pay that off you. [4:58] JD: Does that count? [4:59] Mark: Yeah. [4:59] JD: He said it again. Yeah, yeah. [5:02] Justin: Wait, not me squatting. [5:04] Chad: No, no, no, no, no. But no, that also counts. He said a dot and something. [5:08] Mark: No, I. I said pooled employer plans suck. [5:13] JD: Acro Sin is supposed to be like a little fun game that just kind of sprinkles through the show. It's not supposed to be the entire show concept itself. Fred Barnstein. I don't think I gave our meditating guy enough credit. I'm suggesting to everyone out there that if you love 401k in any way, shape or form, you should tune into RPA Convergence, the website. And no kush, you can say jd [5:48] Chad: that's not what we're taught. That's not what that was for. It's the one up on the screen. [5:52] Justin: Convergence. [5:52] Chad: Yeah. [5:53] JD: Oh, okay. [5:56] Mark: Jesus. [5:57] Chad: Sorry, Jennifer. [5:58] Mark: We're off to a great start, Jennifer. You'll get to hang out with us soon. [6:01] JD: His real talk on July 26th I thought was absolutely phenomenal. It's like 10 minutes or less. And Fred has the ability to nail like four or five topics that are. That are front of mine in our industry. And I'm giving them full props, bro. Like you have to tune into this shit when he does it because it's phenomenal stuff. This one, he's talking about Vestwell getting their 70 million. He's talking about Empower Buying Crew. He's talking about. I think intellisense went out there and valued the participant like how much a participant is worth to a financial services firm. [6:39] Mark: Oh, shit on and see that? [6:40] JD: Among other things. So that's very, very cool. And put that on your top list of kind of media news to tune into Fred our. [6:50] Mark: It's going on the calendar every week on a specific date to check in on him. Because every time it's four topics that we need to be. We need to be relevant. [6:59] JD: I wouldn't say that if I didn't really, really mean it. Like the guy's crushing it. So. And then lastly in news, and this is big, Brian Graff sat in front of the Senate and gave his testimony and answered a bunch of questions for all those D.C. damn it. All those Washington [7:21] Jennifer Sahadi: people. [7:21] JD: And you can see the whole thing if you go to. Again, if you go to the American Retirement association website, you can click on a link and watch the whole bit. There's. And the takeaways for me were Brian backing some legislation that would. What was. I'll read from my notes here. He said that enacting some of this new legislation could create 51 million new individuals saving for retirement and an additional $6.2 trillion over the next 10 years. I was a little weirded out in that one of the major legislations that he's pushing to them or supporting is the automatic ira. Well, and I say it Automatic IRA act drink, which would mandate employers or more employees to have a automatic individual retirement account for their employees. So I don't know how I feel about that as a 401k person. Is that good for our industry? I don't know. Chad, Mark, Justin, Jennifer. Is it good for 401k to have more individual retirement accounts out there? [8:46] Mark: Jennifer, you want to answer that? [8:49] Jennifer Sahadi: I feel like it could go either Way right. On one side you're helping people normalize saving and you're introducing them to retirement accounts, which is super helpful. But also once you're in the IRA world there tends to be that preference towards IRAs. And the thought that saving 6,000. Oh no, a thought that saving 6,000 a year is enough and for most people it's not. [9:14] JD: Yeah, I kind of hope when Brian's sitting. Sorry Chad, did you have a thought? [9:18] Mark: I was just going to. So I thought opposite to what Jennifer just said, which is any, any encouragement for people to save, even if it is a small amount, even it is in an individual retirement account, is going to lead them to start thinking about finance more which will then to lead to greater participation on the case side and folks opening up plans. And so I definitely don't think it's a bad thing. [9:41] JD: Yeah, more awareness. I do that. When I watch it though. I am thinking like, oh, Brian's going to really help my industry 401k. But I forget that he also supports advisors and, and advisors are keen on individual retirement accounts getting that boost. And I'm with you Chad. I think the increased awareness, more savers creates more opportunity for the industry as a whole. But on a bigger takeaway, the Senator Wyden one of, he kind of did a summary of how he felt things went down in that testimony, that meeting. And one of his big takeaways was that a national program, we've heard some of this. A national program like the state run plans could be a really, really impactful way for Washington to make a difference for low income people and savers and that type of stuff. So hearing them kick around this idea of a national mandate, and I'm not talking mask mandate, I'm talking retirement plan mandate, is something that gets me pretty fired up. And so to see Brian in front of our government pushing the cause is definitely headlines, is definitely news. And you know, as boring as it might be, I would suggest tuning into that sucker. You've watched it, right? Mark, you sat through the whole testimony. [10:59] Mark: I'm gonna. Crystal just mentioned, isn't Social Security a national mandate? My response back would be it's a national mandate for an individual, not for a business to offer something to an individual. So I think two slightly different things and I think a national mandate would be fantastic all the way around. If we focus in on the individual and not on the business or not on our industry, it is going to create more people saving, more people living a better retirement when they get there. I don't see a negative in it, my fear would be as if they create a shitty setup like we have here in California. [11:36] Chad: Crystal's got oh geez, shots fired. [11:40] JD: But that's the double edged sword. And to Crystal's point where she goes, yeah, but look how well that worked, right? Where Social Security struggles, right, but we've talked about this before on the show. In California, where we're from, we have a state run plan. And yeah, maybe it's not the best thing the way it's set up, but the positive is, at least the way we run it here in Cali is if you're an employer and you don't have a 401k plan or a 403b plan or some type of retirement plan, then, then you would look at the CalSAvers as, as an option. But it's the mandate of having a plan. And so a lot of employers go, oh well, if you're going to, for into the government plan, I'll just go ahead and set up my own 401k plan. And so it's a boom for our business and for our peers. If that was national, it would just be absolutely phenomenal for our industry if it was set up in such a way like that. So I would be very excited about something like that. [12:39] Mark: J.D. i want to comment on what Brad just said there. Is the California state run plan so bad that it's creating more 401ks? I don't think the people who are deciding they're broke, they don't have any power versus CalSavers is choosing to do so because CalSavers is so bad. I think they're choosing to do so because it's a government ran program and they're saying that we don't, we don't want Uncle Sam more involved and we want to go private. And so I don't think many of them are spending a whole lot of time evaluating what CalSavers actually is. I think they're just choosing to say we know we don't want that, so let's go here. [13:12] JD: Fair enough. Jennifer, you early on in your career before, you're doing what you did now, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you did what I would call enrollment services for empower, right? Am I getting that right? At one point, so you were on the front lines in the cafeterias, the boardrooms, the whatever, educating employees, teaching them about the plan. Can you, can you share with us a bit of that career stage for you and then how it led you to what you do now and maybe then explain to everyone. What it is that you do now. [13:50] Jennifer Sahadi: Absolutely. So actually I started at Mercer full time. I had started at Fidelity as an intern and then my first full time role was actually a client service manager. So I was in the background processing all the transactions. And I'm sure all of you have been in the position where you see someone doing something and you ask yourself, why on earth would you do that? And the only logical answer is, you don't know any better. And it used to frustrate me. So it's just my job to process them. And then one day there was an odd transaction on there on one of my accounts and I hunted it down and it turned out to be an educator on the road who helped a participant with something. And I realized that was a job and I wanted it, like, please put me out there, let me help people. Because if they knew what I knew, they wouldn't be doing this. And I don't want to just be processing bad decisions. I want to help people. [14:44] JD: When you say doing this, you mean you're looking at like an enrollment form and someone has like put all their money into the tech fund or something and you're like, what's going on here? Is that what you're talking about? [14:54] Jennifer Sahadi: Yeah, all stable value or even weird process loan payments. We would process loan requests. That actually touches back on what we're talking about before. Right. When you have auto enrollment, which is almost kind of a company mandate. What we found wasn't that people saved more. What we found was that the people who you forced in took more loans and stayed at the lower rates of the 2% or 3%. So that's why I said before I was curious. I think oftentimes what we know from our industry, we can think it's the best of intentions, right? It's always good when people save and then you kind of see what happens and you think, oh, well, if they're getting early withdrawal penalties, if they're paying extra taxes because they're defaulting on loans, is that really better? Like, did we help? And I think that's a constant question that we have to ask ourselves. Because we approach investments, we approach retirement plans as if people are computers and they're not. We are delightfully quirky, crazy people. We make decisions based on emotions, based on situations, based on whether we're sober or not. And that doesn't ever get calculated in. People don't think about that when they're pushing through legislation or setting up company plans or rules. But we are. We are amazingly emotional. And that's a good thing, but something that we really have to start considering when we set up things and try to put people in mind. [16:20] JD: I just want to say for the record, and this is a true statement, I do most of my investment changes when I'm fucking hammered. [16:29] Jennifer Sahadi: You're not alone, jd. You're not alone, okay? [16:31] JD: I'm very creative. I feel very confident in my decisions, how I'm making moves. You're so excited about it. You're so perky about being an enroller and going out into the front lines there. Let me ask you a tough question. I don't want to be a pessimist. When you get out in the real world, do employees, are they excited when they get to work and they find out that at one o' clock there's an all hands 401k education meeting and there's cold pizza and two liters of soda at the back of the room. [17:05] Jennifer Sahadi: 16,000 a year plus retirement benefits that ain't worth a damn. [17:10] JD: Do they share your excitement, Jennifer? [17:13] Jennifer Sahadi: Eventually, yes, but not at first. My favorite meeting was one where I walked in and I'm small and I'm quiet when I'm not presenting. So I was able to walk in completely unobserved and there are two guys sitting in the back and the guy said, oh, I hope this isn't a boring presentation. The other guy said, the last one sucked. I said, man, I hope this one doesn't. They're like so shocked, like, oh no, who is this? And I like to have fun with it. I think a lot of people expect a Ben Stein. I think a lot of times people are really boring when it comes to this stuff. I'm actually until now, a well kept secret. A communications major who had a theater background. I have fun and I think finance can be fun. When you realize that life is a game. When you realize there are secret rules that are well kept for most people but enable enormous ability for wealth and financial freedom. And when you start realizing like this is actually cool, like this is when the dorks become cool again because they figure out all the loopholes and the back doors and it really creates an opportunity for people. So I've never had someone leave a meeting saying it sucked, but I'm sure most of them went in expecting it to suck. [18:30] JD: I too, and I don't do this anymore, but I used to love speaking gigs and I love getting up and doing an enrollment education and trying to kind of take that same charisma that you're talking about. They expect a suit and tie they expect boring stuff. And so I wanted to have some fun with it. But let me be pessimistic again. If I'm doing a great job or you're doing a great job, or someone else is, I mean, and there's 50 people in the room, maybe you're going to reach and make a difference to 10 or 15 of them. Maybe we should understand a bit more about what you're doing now. But. But here I go with the pessimism. Having some great speakers who can get up there and kind of inspire and educate people is one thing, but does that really move the needle for people? I mean, once you've done a great job presenting to them, what's the next step? What are they going to do next? And because we've been trying to educate participants for decades in the 401k biz, and we've basically fucked it up, like, we haven't really made a big difference. So you being a great. You can't get in front of enough people to do the necessary damage that we need you to do. Am I being lame? How do you feel about that? [19:47] Jennifer Sahadi: There are stats to back you up, JD And I completely understand and agree. I think when I looked back on the fact that I've been doing this for 10, 15 years and I saw that I hadn't made a difference, like, that's humbling. I put my all in. I've spoken to over 100,000 people. [20:09] JD: Don't get me wrong. I'm sure you've made a difference in people's lives. I know, you know, that you could show me the people and the conversations that you've had and the changes that they've made. My problem is that it's a drop in the bucket, you know? And having great people like you out there giving great presentations to me doesn't seem like the answer to our problems. [20:32] Jennifer Sahadi: I think it's part of the answer. So one of the reasons I started my own company was seeing exactly what you said. It's like, okay, this is what I've done in the last 15 years. How do I triple that in the next 15 years? How do I just access much more people? And that's why I took to the TED stage. That's why I created my own company so that I could reach a broader audience. That's why I was trying to work to help get financial legislation pushed forward to mandate in schools. Those are things we can do to start getting started this week, I was working with some high school programs. I was working with a business that's a restaurant that has a lot of young employees that are looking at this for the first time. So I think there's kind of two ways you have to approach it. You have to recognize that this information needs to get into the systems. Schools, churches, universities, all of that. It needs to just be done in an accurate and fair and balanced way and in all of those systems. And then you have to break down audiences. [21:32] JD: Are you saying that because you want them to be in a better, more receptive position when you get to them, Right? Is that what you're saying? [21:41] Jennifer Sahadi: I don't want to have to be in this job forever. [21:45] JD: Oh, she just wanted to be motivated enough to figure it out themselves. [21:48] Jennifer Sahadi: But I'm with you on the youth sources. [21:51] JD: Getting to the youth and getting to the people when they're younger. And so by the time they're actually sitting in a 401k education meeting, they already get it right. It makes sense to them. [22:01] Jennifer Sahadi: Or you don't need a 401k education meeting because everyone's already saving. Right. To me, there's so many things we can work on as society, government, health care. Should I spend my entire life trying to get people to learn how to save in the short term and long term, to me, that's basic math. To me, I'd really love for that not to be a job. So I'll keep doing it while it's still needed. But I would love to work myself out of a job. And that goes back to your second question about is standing up in front of them doing presentations the right approach? And I would say for some people, right, Some people you need automation, right? Just do it for them. Put them into auto enroll, put them into auto escalate, put them into a target date fund. That will work best. I think this is other people, they need to be motivated. They need some hand holding. If you can segment the audience, you can do more. [22:48] JD: The cliche answer in the industry and chat. I'll go to you. You have a thought you're trying to get out here. But the cliche answer in the industry is like, oh well, it needs to be a combination, the two and of tack and of this, you know, hand to hand combat. Which, which I agree, but I think we need to start talking in more details about what that actually means and how we accomplish it. But Chad, what were you. [23:08] Mark: I was just going to comment on Todd's mention above, which is we are effectively yelling at people and everything you guys have said so far is true. But the words that you keep using is we're telling, we're telling, we're telling. And I think people know that we're telling them they need to save more. Of course you need to save more. Who doesn't know that? But I think what Jennifer, you've done in one of the TED talk that I listened to is you spoke to the audience, which is something Kush mentioned, and you spoke to them about relevant moments in their life. And that's what I think we have not accomplished yet with tech, although we're getting closer with some of the financial wellness tools and the convergence that's happening. But we need to be able to help people specifically in their life moment. Someone who's got college debt and, and is trying to buy their first. Like that person's not in a position to save. Saving is not what they should be spending their next best dollar on yet. We keep telling them, save, save, save, participate, participate, participate, auto enroll, auto enroll. Not because that catches a lot of people, but maybe not them. Stuff needs to be personalized and we need to find a way to leverage technology and data to personalize our communications. [24:15] JD: Talking about wellness, right? I mean, you're talking about financial wellness, basically. Jennifer, I want to. We're going to spin crazy drunken wheel of ice here in a second, but real quickly explain for the audience and the guys here, your current role is are you reaching out to employers and they're bringing you in to kind of educate their employees. You're like a wellness coach, right? [24:40] Jennifer Sahadi: Absolutely. And I agree. Someone was commenting on this, I believe it was Mike Webb. The note of we need to change the term. Right. Because one of the things that I realized when I was helping people enroll, that retirement is really far away for a lot of people. And if you've got high interest credit card debt, if you are paying $2,000 a month for your student loans, which happens more than people might think it's disgusting, but it happens. You can't even begin to talk about retirement. Like, why would you even be interested in 40 years from now if right now you've got way bigger problems? So you need. Bill said it first. I'll give you both credit. What we need is more comprehensive, holistic financial wellness. The sense of financial independence, the sense of not only does spending make you happy, but other things can also make you happy. You don't have to spend to be happy. Right. Like getting really into the behavioral finance, getting really into the wellness and doing that in school. So that when they come to these 401k education meetings, they want to learn just about their specific company 401k. You don't have to teach them a foundation and then build up to the roof. [25:51] Mark: And perhaps they make better decisions when they're younger so they don't end up with high interest credit card debt like you're referencing. [25:59] Jennifer Sahadi: Yes. I mean, I felt like I went to an amazing school, but afterwards I was like, hmm, now that I know what I know, I'm not sure if I would have made the same decisions. Right. Like, I came out with debt like a lot of people do. I immediately went into a brokerage account instead of an individual retirement account. Right. Because I didn't know to think about taxes. Everyone makes those mistakes. Fifteen years later, people are making the same mistakes. So you realize you have to get to the roof. [26:26] JD: Whether he's talking about being financially independent versus retiring, I get that question a lot these days where people are like, you don't really want to retire, do you, jd? Like, you want to just go sit and do nothing. I'm like, fuck, yeah, I want to retire, you stupid idiot. Like, I would love to retire. I don't think people want to. [26:42] Mark: Question is that. [26:44] JD: Yeah, waves change every day, bro. Like, it's all. I'm not getting bored. [26:49] Mark: You gotta call yourself out, Mark. You only live once. [26:53] Chad: Oh, wow. [26:55] Mark: Good call. [26:58] JD: Check. [26:58] Chad: Checks and balances, guys. Come on. [27:01] JD: Chad, I like what you said about how there's buddy pizza life events and how, you know, retirement seems so far off and so it's hard to focus on retirement because it's so far off. But, hey, if you've got a kid who's got to go to college, well, then that's a life event, you know, or if you. You're moving, that's a life event. Those are. Those are good angles to come in and attack from a financial services perspective and help people. So wellness. [27:28] Mark: Brandon. [27:30] Chad: Brandon said, wrap it up. Wrap it up. [27:35] Mark: Always. Always. It is rigged, jd. It's gotta be. I only brought out scotch. If I have to pour scotch in this, that's. [27:46] JD: Come on, come on. He's safe, he's safe, he's safe. While Chad drinks that. I stole this from Fred and his Real Talk, he said, there's a recent survey from JP Morgan, and it kind of caught my attention. It said that participants, like employees. Okay, Employees. [28:10] Chad: You said initials. I'm just hitting buttons, dude. [28:13] JD: That's fair because only my name's free. Yeah. Participants, employees, they expect financial guidance at work. It's. It's. 70% of them think that it's incumbent upon their employers to provide some type of Financial advice. [28:30] Chad: Fucking millennials. [28:31] JD: Yeah. Yeah. Which I thought was a trip. Like, here I am, this pessimist. Like, oh, no one cares about the 401k meeting. No. But apparently the stats tell me that I'm wrong. It went on to say that 80% of them want a financial coach. And I was like, shit, nine out of ten. [28:51] Chad: That's not true, bro. [28:53] JD: This is a. I'll drink for this. Are you questioning J.P. morgan, Mark? [29:01] Chad: No, I'm not questioning them, JD, but I am questioning the metrics behind the survey. [29:13] JD: Maybe. [29:13] Justin: Why don't we just ask the expert who meets with all these companies? [29:17] JD: Yeah, good one, Jepson. You're with these people day in and day out. Do those things line up for what you see out in the workforce? [29:25] Jennifer Sahadi: Absolutely. People do want coaches. [29:27] JD: Fuck you, Mark. [29:28] Justin: Boom, Mark. [29:28] Jennifer Sahadi: And across the board, right. [29:30] JD: Like, [29:32] Jennifer Sahadi: valuable benefits nowadays, is any type of coaching, career coaching, money coaching. People are really looking for support, and I think that's a real opportunity, because I don't know if anyone's ever noticed this before, but when you have a record keeper or an advisor in there, they're going to try to do good. But also they have things to sell. They have things that they want. [29:55] Chad: What? [29:56] Jennifer Sahadi: Right. Like. And that's tricky. I'm being sold to pure education sucks. And I've had people tell me, well, why would I pay you for financial plan or financial coaching when my person at Name the Financial Company does that for free? No one does anything for free. [30:18] Chad: I do. Apparently, I do this show for free. [30:21] Mark: But your business can offer it. Your business can cover the costs and offer this as a resource to employees, which I think is valuable and admirable, [30:30] Jennifer Sahadi: but it goes back to monetizing the participants. [30:33] Chad: Oh, we're going there. [30:35] Mark: Okay. [30:35] Jennifer Sahadi: In my opinion, it's tricky. And I was an education consultant for a long time, and that was always difficult for me. The companies I worked for, they never pushed me. I never pushed anything. I got to speak honestly and sincerely and to act as a fiduciary, but I don't know how long that will last in the market. Sending out educators is expensive, for sure. [30:58] JD: Well, I think. I think a couple of things need to happen. I think we've focused too hard on the individual employees and we haven't focused hard enough on the employers. And I think it would be smart for us to push the employers harder and make them a bigger part of this whole process. You know, when I close my eyes and kind of dream of a wellness utopia, it's one where an employer sits down. And much like they review their 401k plan and they review the funds and the fees and how the accounts are growing and how in the retirement readiness. I'd love to see employers sit down and review how their employees are doing from a financial standpoint of budgeting and, you know, costs and spending and all that type of stuff. Saving for college, et cetera, et cetera. And we could do that, but I don't see that happening right now a lot. I don't see people making human resources or the employer accountable and coming up with plans and goals and reviewing whether we're hitting those goals. And so I think that's a huge way to do it. [32:04] Chad: It says right here we have 400 $1,000 checkpoint. [32:08] Justin: You missed it. [32:09] JD: That says you have a 401k account. So I. When you talk about monetizing the participant, I kind of feel like it's something that we have to do because the reason why we're in the problem we're in right now is the participants that we're talking about that aren't getting help. They don't have enough money, right? And I'm sorry to be a dick, they don't have the wealth, they don't have the savings. Therefore, they're not an attractive prospect to a financial advisor. And so the only way that we can get help to them in some type of mass, in my mind, is to monetize them. You know, we've got to make some fucking money off them some way, shape or form. And I think the reasonable way to do that is through some type of technology and doing it in what Tony likes to say, an economies of scale, right? Like, if I can provide financial wellness. And this might piss you off, Jennifer, through some type of tech. And I've got 100 401k clients, and each of those has 100 participants in it. How many people is that, Mark? 100 times 111 then. And I only make, say, I don't know, 300 bucks off each of them because they're using this tech app. But I'm getting education to them, I'm getting solutions to them and selling them other things. That's the way to do it. I can't help but Todd has caught my attention. JD is just urinating jargon. [33:46] Chad: That might be the comment of the year. [33:49] JD: I like that. You might get my vote for that. Was that an insult? [33:53] Chad: I don't know. [33:54] JD: So anyways. [33:57] Justin: Oh, that's a great idea. [34:02] Chad: Monetize our audience by selling it to them. [34:05] Mark: I feel like I've seen this business for a while now inside and out, and I have to say this out loud, even though it's probably shunned upon by many. Let's be honest. You're not buying a private jet. Jennifer's not buying a private jet because [34:24] Chad: she already has one. [34:25] Mark: There are plenty of providers out there that's margins are thick enough to where they can go out and spend hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of millions on acquisitions and continue to spend tens of millions on enhancing product. Like, the cash flow is good in the way these businesses are structured. So there is room to deliver something more at the margins that some businesses are making. Maybe us sitting in here aren't the ones making the thick margins, but there are plenty out there that are, that are monetizing certain account balances very highly, that they could shed some of that income and perhaps service the folks that actually need it. [35:06] Justin: I agree with you, but I mean, it seems like a pipe dream. I mean, they're worried about investors and their own bottom line. [35:13] Mark: That's because we're a capitalistic economy. And I'm okay with that. But we can't keep saying that nobody's making money. There's not enough there to do this shit, because there is. [35:23] JD: We also know for a fact now that we've been talking about it on this show for quite some time. But the venture capital, the private equity that is, and even the empowers buying Prudential, what we've heard is that this is a game to get as many heads as they can, as many participants under their umbrella as they can, so they can sell them shit down the line. So clearly, and this is not my opinion, this is a fact. This is what's driving our industry right now. And all of this mergers and acquisitions is to get as many of these people under their roof as they can to sell them shit. And so clearly they do think they can drive a profit. That's why they're throwing hundreds of millions of dollars at a lot of these acquisitions and things and investments and things. So I know I say this ad nauseam, but if you're out there as an advisor, you've got to pay attention to this shit. Because we were going tinfoil hat on this eight months ago, and now it's like people are saying it out loud. Like, Pat and I have met with, like, really big people in the industry, and it's like they're showing us under the hood of, like, what their strategy is. And it's about this. It's about monetizing the participants. [36:41] Mark: It's the next step in this space for sure. [36:44] JD: So don't get caught with your pants down and then claim you didn't see it coming. Add nauseam. [36:49] Mark: Oh, I thought it was at nauseam. [36:53] Chad: I was today years old when I learned it was that. [36:56] JD: It's okay. For years I used to say, that's a mute point, man. It's a mute point. And Brandon was going to talk. Brandon pulled me aside and goes, it's moot, bro. It's fucking moot. [37:08] Chad: I'm like, wait, seriously, [37:12] JD: Mark, let's mix it up and let's share with Jennifer everyone's favorite game. [37:18] Mark: Well, I was 13,000, 728 days old when I learned that, so remember Brandon Marco, you did it. You did it. [37:27] JD: Mark's a prima donna. He doesn't start his game until he gets his graphic. [37:31] Mark: Yeah. [37:37] Chad: Jennifer, welcome to the Lamer Game game. Quick explanation. Pretty complex. I'm going to ask you a question and you're either going to respond with that's lame or your game. Does that make sense? [37:55] Jennifer Sahadi: Mostly, yes. [37:57] Chad: Pretty. Pretty simple stuff. [37:58] Jennifer Sahadi: Am I signing up for anything when I say I'm game? [38:02] JD: No, I won't. [38:03] Chad: There's nothing here that's real. It's not going to get you in trouble. Don't worry. You'll still be able to do your TED Talks and everything will be fine. So we're good there. Is that an acronym, by the way? [38:13] Justin: Ooh, I think so. [38:15] Mark: What? [38:15] Justin: But what does it stand for? [38:16] JD: Son of a bitch. [38:17] Justin: Is it. [38:18] Chad: All right, somebody said it earlier, so. [38:19] Mark: I did. I did. Damn it. Oh, Justin got one for like the first time ever. All right, talking about in a couple of weeks. [38:29] Chad: First question. Using either like a fun font or any other color than black when writing an email. Lamer game, Jennifer. [38:43] JD: What? [38:44] Jennifer Sahadi: Lame. [38:46] Chad: I do allow for our guests to expand. Or if you have a story to share, I do not let the other guys speak more than two words. [38:54] Jennifer Sahadi: So I like when other people do it. I would never do it myself. Just like I tend to wear solid colors. I'm a. [39:02] Chad: Got it. All right, I'm going to go to Justin. [39:06] Justin: Think it's lame as well, buddy. Sorry. [39:09] Chad: Okay, Chad, game. [39:12] Mark: What? Yeah, if you need. Sometimes you need a different color to show that somebody else wrote it. This is what [39:23] Chad: technicalities. Sorry, Chad, let me be uber specific. If you default your response in typical email. Okay. Jesus, man. [39:33] Mark: Come on, [39:36] JD: Brandon, you're exactly where I'm at. Is it my turn, Mark? [39:42] Mark: Now it is. [39:44] JD: Brandon, you are truly my brother. Exactly how I was going to answer, I think a subtle little color change that's slight can be kind of cool. So. But yes, if you do it in purple and some weird fucking fonts, I just. And I've seen it in bunch of times, and that's lame. It's lame. [40:03] Chad: All right, next question. We're obviously, we're having a lot of conversations about money. Jennifer, you're a money expert. Okay, what about the use of a money clip? Now, specifically, if somebody were to pull out a money clip with a wad of cash. Lamer game. [40:21] Jennifer Sahadi: Lame. [40:22] Chad: All right, the guy who probably carries [40:25] JD: one and has more money than all of us. [40:26] Chad: J.D. i'll go to you next. [40:30] JD: I prefer to use rubber bands like the rappers. Yeah, I'm rich and I'm dead. [40:37] Justin: Justin, who carries cash anymore? [40:41] Mark: Yeah, that was. [40:42] Chad: That was one of my questions. Yeah, Chad. Chad. [40:47] JD: Chad leaves cash around his house. [40:49] Mark: No, my wife. [40:51] Chad: No, no, no. You left cash in your. Like, not the glove box, but the center console for, like, ever. So don't even. [41:02] Justin: A couple drawers. [41:02] Chad: His Jaguar just, like, sends cash out of the hood. All right, next question. [41:08] JD: I love how Webby's giving brand interactions. Cue the cash vid. [41:12] Chad: Yeah, Webby could run this show. Next. Next question. In my notes, I put something about money. Question mark, question mark. So I don't think I had a question there. So my next question. Eating ice cream straight from the container. Jennifer Lamer game. I like it. [41:35] Jennifer Sahadi: My whole pint. [41:36] Chad: Yeah. Do you have a favorite flavor of ice cream? [41:39] Jennifer Sahadi: I love all ice cream. You found my Achilles heel. [41:42] Chad: Oh, nice. Do you invest in, like, ice cream companies? [41:47] Jennifer Sahadi: No, but I can tell you that when I started out my jobs, I would teach people to choose a job not only for the income but for the perks. And I've been doing that my whole life. Starting out as an ice cream scooper and getting free ice cream. [41:59] Chad: Ah, smart. Smart. That's solid advice, Justin. [42:05] Justin: Game ice cream is also my Achilles heel. [42:08] Chad: Do you have a favorite flavor? [42:10] Justin: Absolutely. I have three. [42:12] Chad: That's not a favorite. That's favorites. [42:14] Justin: All right, we'll go peanut butter chocolate. But it's got to be chocolate. Chocolate ice cream with peanut butter. [42:22] Chad: Okay, weirdo. [42:25] JD: We've reached new heights. We're talking about our favorite ice cream. [42:30] Chad: Chad, labor game. [42:31] Mark: I'm lame. [42:32] Chad: Lame. [42:33] Mark: Put it in a bowl. Put it in an ice cream bowl. [42:35] Chad: I knew you would be there. [42:36] JD: Yeah. [42:37] Justin: You eat the ice cream sandwich in half and you put it back in the freezer. Does that. [42:40] Mark: No, I do not. I cut the ice cream sandwich in half. And I take half with me. I do not eat it and put it back. [42:47] Chad: J.D. but I should. Sorry, let me amend my question to you. Vegan ice cream out of a container. Lammer game. [42:54] JD: Yeah, it's. First of all, there's some sick ass vegan ice creams out there these days. [42:59] Chad: Yeah, I bet there is. Fucking made out of eggplant, that is. [43:02] JD: What's in my fridge is vegan ice cream. I do it because like Chad said, if I'm going to put it all in a bowl, I'll tend to put a lot in the bowl. Or if I just grab the pint, I might just have like three or four bites and then put it back. [43:19] Chad: But I think you have self control, my friend. [43:21] JD: I think that's very disrespectful to my other family members that may want to eat from that same point. [43:29] Chad: So you're all family members, so whatever. Well, you know what they say. [43:36] JD: Thanks. [43:36] Mark: You know what they say? [43:38] JD: Wonderful. Mike would like to see more drunk Mark segments. But like I said before, we've. We've got to create them. [43:46] Chad: We've kind of run out of them. Right. And I don't, I don't drink anymore. [43:50] Justin: So it's like, God. [43:52] JD: Chad, did you ever send Webby the photo that you took of Mark when he was drunk down here a few weeks ago? [43:57] Mark: No, but I sent it to Brandon. So Brandon's got a new one to work with when he wants to debut it. [44:02] JD: Okay, so we'll get that to him. Jennifer, to wrap this up, I think we're kind of on a high level these days dealing with advisors, dealing with plan sponsors. I don't think the four of us interact a ton with participants and with employees. So I think this is our opportunity to kind of tap into your brain. Can you let us know, like, in terms of financial planning and things that are in front of them, like what do you think are the top three things that people are struggling with these days in terms of their finances? [44:40] Jennifer Sahadi: Such a big question because it really always tends to vary. But I can tell you some of the trends that I'm seeing is how to face your finances. And everyone will tell you how to face your finances. Right? Everyone will tell you you need to save more, you need to spend less, but they don't actually give you tools to do that. And there are tons of studies on, like, shame spirals when it comes to saving and debt and about how our culture that doesn't talk about money feeds into the fact that it's easier to just spend and Let the debt build and not think about it. You're living in a van down by the river. Awesome quote. You kind of need someone like that and you need someone with some empathy who doesn't kind of talk down to them and say like you should be doing this and if you don't have a million dollars you'll never retire. What you need to do is give people the tools to review how they approach their spending and they're thinking for monthly spending. I spoke with someone literally today who said I'm 20, 40 years means nothing to me. Like okay, you showed me how to be a millionaire in 40 years. That means nothing to me. Like can you bring that into today? And I said absolutely. If you follow the 50, 30, 20 budget and you put 20% of your money towards savings every single month, each paycheck, then you'll get there, right? So just make your goal to act in long term perspective with each short term decision. They need tools like that. [46:08] JD: You had a question? [46:09] Mark: Well, you talk about facing your finances and in your, geez, I don't even know what to call it. But in your talk that you did, you gave an example where you said, imagine there was $100 underneath your chair and you said how would you spend it? And then you said, well how would your wife spend it? And I went like, it was such a cool friggin point to me. I needed to face and have that conversation with my wife. And I think those little things, while you're not telling someone to save or telling someone to do this, you're saying have a conversation, face it, talk about it, don't let it be that, you know that that hidden thing that you guys never bring up, that to me was awesome. That was worth every second of that conversation. [46:49] JD: What percentage, what percentage of households do you think like actually have a spreadsheeted budget? Like they actually put down and spend time, look at what comes in and what goes out and where they spend. I mean take a guess. Mark, what do you think? [47:06] Chad: Well, I would say it's very low. I would say it's probably like 25% or less. I was raising my hand because I, [47:13] JD: I do that you have a, but you have a budgeted spreadsheet. Brandon saying nice. Jennifer, you think that number, I'm assuming that number is pretty low. [47:23] Jennifer Sahadi: I would say under 20. And then I'd go one step further and say in those households, do all people involved know that spreadsheet? Because when I do see the spreadsheet it's often just one person and that's [47:36] JD: How I live my life, by the way I. My wife handles the money. Like, I literally don't pay attention to what comes in and what goes out. It's all her. And I think that's probably pretty common and probably not an ideal situation where one part of the relation has no idea. You know, I just make so much damn fucking money that doesn't matter. So it just keeps going. But. But it's a problem. It's a problem. [48:04] Jennifer Sahadi: I can tell you. [48:05] JD: Money's not a thing to me anymore because I just charge to the game. Yeah, not with that credit card. You can get whatever you want, whenever you want. It's all, like, free, basically. [48:16] Jennifer Sahadi: So, yeah, I mean, I can tell you a lot of people came to sit with me after the group meeting. When you're meeting people one on one, and these have been amazing moments of honesty and openness that you don't typically get about money. And people have told me, like, I just lost my spouse. They handled it like she was my everything, he was my everything, and they handled everything right. So can you imagine, like, whether it's passing, whether it's they just take off, whether it's. They get sick, not only have you lost your partner, your best friend, your everything, but you've also lost your financial system. Like, that's a really bad time to lose everything. Right? So I think it makes so much sense for people to start talking about it. Are they to be involved? Right. Like, you have to encourage the other person to be involved, because it's easier for you if they're not. [49:09] JD: Jennifer, I think I know the answer to this question, but I think it's important for us to highlight it here for a moment. Are they. Are they embarrassed these days still? I mean, millennials are changing. People are more empowered. You know, the gymnast can say she's, you know, can't compete, and everyone worships her for it. And so we're way more. [49:30] Chad: Oh, man, you had to throw that. [49:33] JD: Way more woke these days. But. So are people still embarrassed to come and talk to someone like you? [49:38] Jennifer Sahadi: But they are, absolutely. So a big part of it is just making people feel more comfortable, right. [49:45] JD: That they can come talk to you and figure that. But that's a huge obstacle. I think people ignore it and they're not going to get help because they're too embarrassed to walk up and say, you know, I've got $30,000 of credit card debt. You know, I make $50,000 a year, and I'm blowing money on this and that. And it's like, that Self real. They don't want to face their. [50:06] Jennifer Sahadi: They don't want to face it themselves, much less tell anyone else. I can tell you almost everyone I work with. They're like, I'm so embarrassed. Like, I was never like this. They're, like, making excuses for themselves. And I always tell them, it's okay. You're human. This is unbelievably normal. We can fix this. We can fix anything. If you face it, everything's fixable. [50:25] JD: Does Dave Ramsey have all the right answers? Is it? My take on Dave Ramsey is like. And I'm being polite to him right now. Like, is that, hey, man, you're spending too much. Like, you know, you make 60k a year, and you're driving a car with a, you know, $600 monthly payment like, you're an idiot. Is that our biggest problem is just budgeting and spending and not balancing our own checkbooks properly? [50:51] Jennifer Sahadi: If Dave Ramsey had all of the answers. [50:54] Chad: Balancing a checkbook, [50:57] JD: that's very 1980s. I meant in theory, Mark. Okay, but that's Dave Ramsey's pitch, right? It's like, he's basically a budget guy. Like, hey, man, you need to have sound budgeting. And so. [51:09] Jennifer Sahadi: And that's an important part of it. I think his approach worked well in the past, and I think as demographics and opinions are changing, a new tack makes more sense. [51:22] JD: You know, he was on the COVID of 401k specialist mag. You know that? [51:27] Chad: Wow. [51:28] Mark: Why you got to bring up painful, right? [51:31] JD: Just saying. [51:32] Chad: Are you saying if he's been on it, that anyone can be on it? [51:35] Mark: Jd, jd. Don't, don't, don't move on from that. You asked her for three, and the first one, which we hit on heavy, was face your money head on. Like, talk about it. So what are the other two actually? [51:48] Jennifer Sahadi: Talk about it? Is the second one right? So face your money like you personally and actually talk about it. Like, bring it into conversations. Help erase the taboo. So I can tell you when I started reviewing my budget first, years and years and years ago, when I saw her spending $100 on coffee each month for me, that wasn't okay. I didn't want to spend that much. I didn't realize I was spending that much. This is me without caffeine. Like, I really don't need coffee. So I reflected on it, and I realized I didn't want coffee. I wanted to hang out with my friends, and my friends would invite me out. Hey, let's meet in a castle. So the next time someone asked me that, I said, would you mind if we went for a park and like a walk in the park instead? I'm trying to save money and exercise more and my friend said that's a great idea. I'm trying to save money too. [52:36] Chad: Sure. Let's grab a cup of coffee to walk with. Ah, gotcha, gotcha. [52:40] Jennifer Sahadi: You know you can bring your own coffee if you're walking, right? Like you can bring one for yourself and your friend. Right. There's ways to get what you want that might help you short term and long term. Like you still get and you have more money. [52:57] Mark: Yeah. [52:57] Chad: I would like to know how much PCH spends on coffee per month. Oh, son of a. [53:03] JD: All right. Chad won't be happy unless we finish out in the third one. [53:11] Jennifer Sahadi: I like it. So the third one. The topic that I see most with people is just prioritizing, prioritizing, prioritize their savings, how to prioritize their financial goals. What often stops a lot of people from doing anything is that there's so much to do, right? So you can take for example, someone who is still paying off their own college loans, just took on a mortgage, had a child and thinking about a 529 plan, hasn't started saving for retirement yet, has some credit card debt. That's a lot. That's a lot. So once you get people to open up and they say, like, here's all my stuff, like you can get why they'd be overwhelmed because it is a lot to prioritize. And there's no one answer, which is the problem with technology. You can have a really great algorithm that says financially this is where the numbers line up best, but unless you really understand the person and their goals, there might not be a successful plan for them. [54:13] Mark: And that was the earlier point right there. [54:17] JD: I like the warm fuzzy feeling though, vibe that you went with. Because the reality is I was expecting answers like Chad and I like things like, well, number one would be emergency savings and then number two would be saving for your retirement. Number three would be budgeting and making sure that your overhead is appropriate. But you're actually right, Jennifer. I mean, you can't get to those things without first facing the situation, then starting to talk about it. And then when you say prioritize, I see as like take one little bite sized thing at a time, you know, one foot in front of the other to kind of head down your financial path. So I'm with you, I'm with you. [54:58] Mark: And no, I'm totally with her. And kind of my tooting your horn earlier was you didn't just say talk about it. You gave people a way to talk about it. And to me, that is equally as important as prioritizing these things is. Folks need a way to feel like there's not so much to do. So you tell them, here's something that you can do. Ask your spouse how they would spend that hundred bucks. That's so simple. And now it's going to create some dialogue. That's what, in my opinion, that's what folks need to hear. They need actionable little things that they can physically go do following that meeting. [55:38] Jennifer Sahadi: Well, the little things have a compounding effect. [55:42] JD: How do you. Do you, do you follow up? Like, what do they do next? Is my point. Like, they're like, yeah, I agree, I'm in on this kind of stuff. But you are. You can't possibly be there to like, then sit with them and be like, oh, let's set you up with this emergency savings account. Let's get you into this college plan. I mean, my understanding of you is you're not selling them anything. So, so how does it work? The next step? [56:06] Jennifer Sahadi: Yeah. So when I delivered just meetings when I was an education consultant, I would always ask people to write down, like, I've motivated you. You're excited, you're thinking about this. Write down one thing you're going to do today because tomorrow you'll forget all about this. So in a group, I always try to inspire action. I would often go back to the same clients year after year and people would oust themselves. They'd be like, hey, Chen, can you help me do it? I didn't do it last year. I know if you don't help me do it, I'm not going to do it. Right. Like some people really like 41k lady, can we up it again this year? Like, they didn't know how to increase their contribution without me. Like, it was literally my job to show up and be like, click, click. [56:47] JD: Yeah, yeah. [56:48] Jennifer Sahadi: And like that was my little contribution to the world. Now when I work with individuals, I insist on having at least two meetings to have a plan and then a follow up so that I can help people troubleshoot. I can hold them accountable and that is essential. [57:03] Justin: So for that, I mean, auto features just scream at me at that point, like, that's a perfect case. But I was also surprised by your comment earlier in the beginning of the show, kind of taking that as a negative. [57:14] JD: So are you a proponent, are you a proponent of auto enroll. Auto escalation? [57:19] Jennifer Sahadi: If people are educated, you did all the hard work [57:25] JD: Sorry, Justin. That was your question. You nailed it. [57:29] Justin: Teamwork here, buddy. Teamwork. [57:31] Jennifer Sahadi: Yeah. It goes back to what we said before. Right. If you're educated in school and this is something you want, and the only barrier is, is that you don't want to take the time or you'll forget there's nothing better than auto enrollment. But if you don't understand the concept behind what's happening and it's just taken from you and you don't notice because you're oblivious, and then you suddenly see there's a pot of money, it's just not going to work. Right. [57:55] Chad: That's not the worst thing in the world, though. It isn't. [57:59] Jennifer Sahadi: Because they withdraw taxes and penalties. I had so many people tell me, like, nobody told me, nobody warned me that if I put. Pulled the money out, I was going to get slapped with cash. [58:08] Chad: Oh, that's. [58:08] JD: That's different. [58:10] Chad: Yeah. [58:10] Jennifer Sahadi: And it's auto enrollment. [58:14] JD: But I would, they would be stoked if they. If they had no idea and they show up and all of a sudden they got a thousand bucks. Like that's a good thing. [58:22] Chad: I have exactly what got me to. [58:24] Justin: Go ahead, Mark. [58:25] JD: No, no. [58:26] Chad: You don't ever talk, so go for it. [58:28] Justin: That's exactly what got me to start participating in my. Obviously. [58:31] JD: Right. [58:32] Justin: But it got me to be interested in this and, and I started to educate myself and like, after I looked at my account, after a year of not paying attention, I was like, holy shit, there's a couple thousand dollars in there I didn't do anything for. [58:43] Jennifer Sahadi: And that works. [58:43] Justin: That got the ball rolling. But yeah, that would make sense. Not everybody. [58:47] Jennifer Sahadi: And I can tell you too, right. You guys are in California. Right. How many languages are spoken in California? [58:53] Mark: 295. [58:55] Jennifer Sahadi: Right. Like, what is the auto enrollment work all in. What is the particularly angry people who are like, no one ever explained this to me. [59:05] Mark: Yeah. [59:07] JD: By the way. [59:07] Mark: But if you're checking your paycheck, then you see it. And if it's an iaca, you can pull the money out. Like there's options. [59:13] Jennifer Sahadi: Right. Like we're biased because we're. [59:15] Mark: The person who's upset about being auto enrolled is the person who checks their [59:20] Jennifer Sahadi: paycheck once a year. And that's when they know. [59:22] Chad: Oh, says, says, I don't check my paycheck. [59:27] JD: Yeah. [59:27] Chad: I check to make sure you're paying me. [59:29] JD: And that's my boy. [59:31] Mark: Check. [59:32] JD: Brian Graf in front of the Senate. I would say the core concept that they talked about was auto features. [59:42] Chad: What quarterly, Justin. [59:43] JD: And so they, they do believe that auto features, Whether in a 401 plan and a state run plan or a mandated IRA, we can say acronyms now. They think that that's the answer. It's interesting to hear you be kind of somewhat negative on it because I would also say our industry as a whole thinks like it's the answer to everything. But I'm going to see you as the voice of the people right now, Jennifer. And you're saying that there are people out there that feel like we're kind of shoving them into something. How would those same people or how do you feel about default investments, target date funds or manage accounts? Now we're really stomping all over your liberties, aren't we? [1:00:30] Jennifer Sahadi: So I'm going to give you an exact scenario. Let's say your company Auto enrolls you at 2 or 3%. That's pretty normal. Auto increases it up to 10%. They have zero match and you have credit card debt that's 25%. Did we do right by that person? Was that the right choice for them in their financial situation? Is that setting them up for long term success? [1:00:53] JD: No, it's not. But they could have declined. You know, you're not forced to do it. You can decline, you get a notice, you get a legal notice that says hey, we're going to auto enroll you at this rate and you can decline. You give a. [1:01:10] Jennifer Sahadi: So you're telling me you read every piece of mail you get, including ones that look like dense legalese. [1:01:16] JD: Well, I would hope that HR talks. [1:01:19] Mark: Hey, let's not, let's not forget because we didn't address it at any point, nor are we now get, what's the alternative like for the vast majority of these people, they're not going to save, they're not going to listen to Jennifer, they're not going to pay down their debt, they're just going to keep on going. So at least these auto features are doing something right for some people. [1:01:39] JD: And Jennifer, if that person, that scenario that you put out there has to be the death for 50 other people to live, then fuck them, you know, [1:01:50] Jennifer Sahadi: like yeah, you have to look at, [1:01:52] JD: it's for the greater good. [1:01:55] Jennifer Sahadi: Time out, Justin. [1:01:57] JD: That means you need to go get your vaccine. Justin. [1:02:03] Chad: Chad, I'm going to call you out a little bit right now because when we have these conversations with folks who are advocates for saving, who are promoting and believe in auto features like I think we all do, you tend to take that side as well because you understand the positivity behind that. But as soon as you get nerdy. TPA Chad consulting involved. 100 you're like HR people are gonna this up. They're all gonna fall in their face. [1:02:32] JD: They don't know how to do auto features. [1:02:34] Chad: The plan design is gonna be screwed up. So. [1:02:36] JD: So what do you. [1:02:37] Chad: 100 that is an absolute contradiction of advice. So I pick a friggin side dude. [1:02:45] Mark: Well we're talking about two different sets of the market. [1:02:47] Chad: No we're not. [1:02:49] Mark: I am. Then Mark is. Does an auto enroll work on a seven person plan? Fuck no. And that's what a lot of these advisors are talking about. [1:02:58] Chad: But it could. [1:03:00] Jennifer Sahadi: Yeah. So I think we're on the same page. Right? Where we're saying nothing is the answer to everything. Right. We have the technology for customization. We have the ability to educate people. I think auto enrollment is perfect once people first understand about retirement plans, about investments, about the rules for putting in and taking out. Right. Like once they understand all of that so much better. But the studies behind auto enroll on anything. Right before there was auto enroll in retirement plans there was auto enroll for organ donation in Europe. And they saw the numbers spike. It's not because people suddenly became charitable. It's because people are lazy and they choose the path of least resistance. So you're assuming people want this and this will help people and you're not assuming that people will get defaulted and they follow defaults. That's like a very common place. [1:03:51] JD: I think our studies within the pharmacy industry backed you up. We knew exactly what was happening. That it was their procrastination and inability to make a decision that would take up participation rates into the 80s and 90s percent. Like we knew. We didn't. We didn't think they were all like yeah this is a great idea. We just knew that their inaction would [1:04:10] Jennifer Sahadi: drive these higher rates which to Bill's point, 100% enrollment. Intentionally. Like I was able to do a group enrollment for a new company with a new plan. [1:04:21] Mark: That's incredible. [1:04:21] Jennifer Sahadi: We sat down together. We grabbed iPads and in one room in two hours everyone was enrolled. 100% enrollment. And intentional. They wanted it. They knew what they were getting. They were happy about it. [1:04:33] Chad: You turned up the thermostat. You withheld water. You forced them do it. [1:04:38] JD: No. [1:04:38] Jennifer Sahadi: They actually just had eggs and bacon. [1:04:39] Justin: It was just pizza and soda. [1:04:41] JD: Here I go again. Now like. And I don't want to be a dick but it's like I believe you and I have no doubt that Jennifer can go into a room and like oh wow. It's not a Suit and tie and this is fun and I'm learning and she clearly is passionate and cares for us. And let's say you get 100% of them to enroll. That's phenomenal and I don't doubt that that exists. And God bless you and you keep going and doing that. But the problem is is that there's only one of you. And you just like I said before in the show, you're dropping the bucket. And to me it's not, it's not. The answer to our industry's problems is not live face to face education. And the reason why is that, yeah, we've done that forever. And the next reason why it doesn't work is it's, it's not motivated fiscally. Like it just doesn't make sense for us in terms of money. So we have got to find more creative, more modern, more tech based solutions. And by the way, that might mean that there's people behind them. Suze Orman sucks. I love this. That's pch, good for you, buddy. But we need to start thinking outside the box and we just can't. This hand to hand combat, as good as it feels. And Jennifer, when you sit down with someone and they get you and you get them and you're able to help them as a human being, I'm sure that feels freaking phenomenal. But it's in my opinion it's not the answer to our industry. We got to search elsewhere for the answer. Do I have fancy when I say these words? [1:06:23] Jennifer Sahadi: No. It's funny actually. I've messaged Susie Orman and a few other people in the industry with the honest question of, you've been doing this your whole life? I've been doing this most of my life. Why haven't we fixed it yet? Right. And I think you're right. That's why I started focusing on education. Right. Like the question when you really pull back right after show a couple drinks in, is who is responsible for having a literate population? Right? Like does it fall on the schools? Does it fall on the businesses? If it falls on the schools, we're all paying, right? As taxpayers. [1:06:54] JD: Now you're getting teeth, Jeff, for I like this. [1:06:57] Jennifer Sahadi: We're still paying, right? So are we saying as a country we want to choose to put the costs on individuals to make decisions that will make them, their family, their communities better off or do we as a country want to take that on? I personally think if we can get that education into schools and do it well, like go past the gold standard in the US and go for the gold standard internationally because other countries have already been doing this for over 10 years and we're new to the game. I think there's a lot we can do to fix this problem and I think we could see it fixed in our lifetime and not through just me doing presentations. Although I do love that. It does make me very happy. But I'd love to use my talents [1:07:39] Mark: to fix other problems and don't be naive. You are creating an impact and the impact doesn't have to be seen as I'm going to touch everybody. I had this conversation with my brother, 13 people chat. I had this conversation with my brother this past week and you know these guys know him very well. He feels like he's not doing enough in his lifetime, like he needs to be doing more. And I'm like dude, that's a Johansson. You're a police chief. You're touching up. You're helping a lot of people. You're creating massive change internationally amongst how police departments are being like you're doing some incredible things like. But I feel like I should be doing more. I'm going to. Okay, I get that we all wish that we could do more JD but we need a million Jennifers out there doing hand to hand combat while we're trying to figure out what way we can scale this and do more. So don't think that what you're doing is not enough Jennifer. It is, it's admirable. It's incredible. You're helping so many people. So even though we're saying we need something more and I think you're acknowledging that too and you write Susie and say why haven't you fixed it yet? Don't give up. But also don't think that what we're currently doing now is the way to fix this problem. That's why we're trying to find something new. [1:08:52] JD: Well let's also be clear. If we create the most bomb ass app in the world and it's fed with participant data and it can with 100% accuracy, I'm just making shit up here. Know when someone needs to do this financial step in their life and guide them through a notification and a process and a thing that still is bullshit like that's not going to work either. That's not the answer. And so it is some type of hybrid in some way and we're going to watch it unfold. People are, that's what they're building and they're trying to take stabs at this. So it's going to be really, really interesting to see it go down because I see two camps. I saw Heidi in the chat bar saying like, education is key. Like she's saying you need the hand to hand combat, you need the Jennifers in front of people. I believe I'm putting words in her mouth. And on the one hand I think that that's true. I'm just trying to find the scalable version of that and let me just spitball like, so why can't Jennifer just provide that to me on my phone on demand? And I see Jennifer, instead of sitting in front of my, in my conference room with cold pizza in the back of the room, she's on my phone in a nice HD video explaining these topics. And then there's a button for me to click that's like, yeah, college saving. Click here. And here comes the monetization part. You know, and then it's. And then why can't we get employers to push that stuff and be accountable for it? Like I, I say all this and people are working on this stuff. They've for sure they are. [1:10:34] Justin: This may be the pessimist of me, but I worry about, you know, I think that's a great idea. And Jennifer agreed with the technology part too in the chat. But how are we going to force people to actually click that link when it goes to their phone? We're not, as you know. I think I see it as the same thing as trying to get people to participate in the 401k. [1:10:51] Jennifer Sahadi: I see a combination where you have tech because you really have to get into the minutiae. Right. You have to get into the weeds and you have to get into daily decision making. And there's nothing better for that than an app like I can't be in people's pockets being like, you don't need that, like just pop up and disappear. If you've ever been in a store next to me, like, I do that. [1:11:13] JD: What if you put in, what if you put in like stops? Like it wouldn't even let you purchase it. [1:11:18] Jennifer Sahadi: People like wrap a note around their credit card. [1:11:21] JD: No, your card gets declined. [1:11:24] Jennifer Sahadi: Yeah. [1:11:24] JD: The AI figures out that JD is trying to buy another surfboard and so it declines it because it's not part of my budget. [1:11:30] Mark: I don't know. [1:11:31] JD: Right. [1:11:31] Jennifer Sahadi: I mean, like, you don't want that. Right. That's 1980. So I think the people who just want a yearly, I think everyone should have a yearly check in. Right. I think you think about it like your doctor's appointment, right? Like you have a physical every year. To check on your health, you go to the dentist twice a year. You should be paying attention to your money at least once a year with a professional, someone who can customize it, [1:11:51] Justin: make it like open enrollment with healthcare. Like we have to go on the damn website to do our shit. [1:11:56] Jennifer Sahadi: Exactly. And a lot of benefit fairs did include me because they said financial wellness is part of wellness. If you are having financial issues, it will impact your health. Absolutely. Which will give you more financial issues. It's incredible. So I do see, like, a combination. But what I've seen so far for technology, you have a lot of early adopters. They use it at first, but then it doesn't continue on. And that's where education helps. Like when I asked one group, and this was an amazing group in Rhode island, these are the children, not of immigrants, but asylum seekers, and they're in the Providence public schools, and they're learning a lot at once. And I taught this to them. And I said, what's the one thing you're going to do when you leave this room? And because it was a small group in intimate, I made them say it out loud. And one guy said, I'm going to teach every single person I know what you taught me today. And I was like, that's the dream. I don't just want you to act. I want you to be my ambassador. I want you to go out and tell your friends, let's all spend less time, money. Let's not do a destination bachelor party. As like, is the new Trend, like, drop $1,000 for the wedding in 2000? Oh, yeah, it's the new trend. Destination. [1:13:08] Chad: No, no. [1:13:08] Justin: I mean, I'm like, I'm for those [1:13:09] Chad: type of bachelor parties. [1:13:12] Justin: We don't take those away. [1:13:15] Jennifer Sahadi: College debt and living at home, it's tricky. So, like, I want people to talk and share what I've learned and what they've learned from me. I think that's the gift that education can have that technology barely does. It doesn't have a ripple effect. It tends to be really solo. So when you talk about scalability, it's funny to see it both ways, because technology can reach more people, but it will reach them individually. Whereas education can really have more of a sprawling effect because you're explaining people the why, you're not just forcing them to do it. You're not just giving them the numbers. You're giving them the why behind it and the skills to act on it. [1:13:55] JD: That is a good point, by the way. You know, if we auto enroll and auto escalate, and auto invest and put them in our managed account service or our target state fund or whatever. We really haven't taught them anything, you know, like there's still a lot of work to do. We're just helping them accumulate some funds. But that's gonna still crash and burn if we can't teach them. But you've heard me now. Not ad nauseam. Ad nauseam where. I'm just saying that you talk about the one on one once a year. And I'm just like, I've got scalability issues with that. [1:14:35] Jennifer Sahadi: But I feel like once a year with the financial advisors we have, with the educators who are out there now, we could do once a year. I think we already have the people in place to deliver that. [1:14:45] JD: But not individually, like, not sitting down. These people don't have any wealth, Jennifer. Who's paying for it? Who's paying for it? [1:14:57] Jennifer Sahadi: Services, 2 hours, 200 bucks for an hour. Most people can afford that if you charge three. But they won't for an hour. [1:15:04] Mark: I think they won't. [1:15:05] JD: They won't. But I think you nailed it earlier. When you want to create your perfect world, the answer then is, is teaching them before they get to that point. Point. And you're 100% right. Why the hell can you graduate high school and not know, like, what percentage of your outgo of your. [1:15:26] Mark: Of your rev. [1:15:27] JD: Of your fucking salary should be your mortgage or your rent? What percentage should be your car payment? How much should you spend on food? How much should you spend on health? Like, people don't know the answers to these fucking questions. They don't. These are simple, simple, easy things and no one's taught them. And then you, Jennifer does this all the time. And I know you guys have experienced this. Then we sit down with people and start to talk to them about investing and start to talk to them about small cap versus mid cap versus large cap versus international versus domestic versus equities and bonds and cash. And they'll look at you and be like, I don't know what the you're talking about. And so they have no idea about this stuff. And we haven't taught them. You know, no one knows. And this is such serious stuff. Then I'm jumping on this like, weirdo soapbox. [1:16:22] Jennifer Sahadi: But like, no, I agree with you. [1:16:24] JD: Don't people get divorced because of money? Isn't that like one of the number one reason and number one reason people aren't people stressed the fuck out because of money? Like, so it's a lower quality of life. They're not Happy. They're not living good lives because of money. They're losing sleep, not able to smell the roses and enjoy their life. [1:16:46] Jennifer Sahadi: Before the pandemic, over 50% of people in our country said that they were stressed about money before the pandemic. [1:16:52] Justin: So did that 40% of divorce rate rise? [1:16:55] Jennifer Sahadi: I bet it did. I'd have to see some newer data, but I'm sure it did. [1:16:59] JD: So why are we not teaching more [1:17:01] Jennifer Sahadi: jet than for infidelity? Because when you're home together all the time, secrets come out. [1:17:06] Chad: Why are we not teaching an element like money secrets? Right. [1:17:12] Jennifer Sahadi: So I can tell you right now. So in the US there's two different standards. And what appears to be the gold standard for the US is if you have a full semester course on money alone. Yeah, right. The other standard is just. You just have to cover it somehow. No specific guidelines. You can have a day, you can have Junior achievement come in. They actually have an amazing program, but it's just once. And I've already talked to kids who have been through these programs and most of them don't remember anything. Just like you don't remember anything from history. Right. Like, I personally like the international gold standard where it's woven into everything. Because where doesn't money impact things? Right. I would put money into history, I would put money into science, I would put money into math classes. To me, it should be everywhere because it should just be pervasive. It should always be in the back of their head. [1:18:06] JD: I'm stretching here, but I mean, is there something else that we learn as human beings that we. That that happens the way it should be? That should happen? [1:18:16] Jennifer Sahadi: Well, there's always room for improvement. Right. That's the cool part of life. If we were acing everything, life would be really boring. [1:18:23] JD: Yeah. But I just feel like we're really setting people up for. For failure when we're not talking about money more. I know that's a cliche. [1:18:31] Mark: Well, that's her point. [1:18:33] Jennifer Sahadi: Yeah. [1:18:33] Mark: Yeah. And your comment, which was, it was cool for me to hear when you said, you know, we spend time thinking about our wedding day. We spend money on our wedding day, we talk about how much we're going to spend, but then we get married and it's like we didn't have a plan for our finances. We don't necessarily talk about our finances. And that was interesting for me because I'm in the financial world and my wife and I are pretty in tune. We, like Mark said, spreadsheet, we talk about it, we have open discussions, but we didn't have a plan by any means. We had. We had no plan whatsoever. After we got married, we just kind of went with the flow. And I wish that we had had [1:19:10] Jennifer Sahadi: a plan in place, like a term. Right. Like, I'd love to see it go into social culture because you really do have to hit this at many levels. But I'd love for like, you know, a rom com to be like, I found my financial match. Like, he. He focuses on the same spending categories as me. Like, we both splurge on vacations but scrimp on everything else. Like, I'd love for that to be like, part of our social dialogue. [1:19:37] JD: Financialmatch.com the chat. The chat bar is heating up. [1:19:43] Chad: Like I was going to say, the chat bar is drunk. The chat bar is drunk. [1:19:48] Jennifer Sahadi: I just thought, bill's coming. [1:19:49] JD: We're going to talk about the chat bar and then wrap up. [1:19:52] Justin: Bill was my second choice. [1:19:53] Jennifer Sahadi: I agree with you, Crystal. Everyone was like, don't talk about it. You're like, look where that got us, Chris. [1:19:58] Chad: So I'll be honest. I occasionally like my wife and I do a decent job of, like, staying in tune with this. I will say I would, I take the most on in terms of doing that for our family just because I like to. And she trusts me. And we talk. We talk about it openly, though. [1:20:15] Jennifer Sahadi: Right. [1:20:16] Chad: So occasionally. No, wait, I'm making a point. And we're talking about money. Yeah. And so we occasionally have what I call financial meetings. And when she hears that, she goes, ah, I should open a bottle of wine. And I say, yeah, because every time we have a financial meeting, we have to drink because that's just a requirement of our meetings. [1:20:41] JD: So. [1:20:41] Justin: Yeah. Too much of your dough. [1:20:44] Jennifer Sahadi: I would. [1:20:44] Chad: Yeah. [1:20:46] Jennifer Sahadi: As a treat, when I do work with couples, I tell them, plan a financial date at least once a month. It can be out of the house if you prefer. If it's a charged topic, you don't have a stigma to it in your home. [1:20:58] Chad: Yeah. [1:20:58] Jennifer Sahadi: And then treat yourself like maybe going out to eat is the treat. Maybe like you have a whole cake. Like, I don't judge. Once a month you do this. You do this responsible adulty thing like eat right out of that ice cream container. Do it. Have the whole thing yourself. Like, whatever it is, reward yourself. And again, that's something that isn't taught. Right. Like, you do have to reward yourself. You do have to celebrate the small wins. Because saving for retirement has no immediate reward and shopping does. It's a simple fact of life. When I buy something, I Feel happy when I save for retirement. I'm like, guess what I saved in my retirement plan today, jj, I don't [1:21:40] JD: know, though I might counter you there. I've lived my life with no wealth. And there's something very comforting about, like, building wealth. Like, it helps you sleep at night. I've got three kids, a wife. You know, as you start to be more responsible like that with money and create those safety nets and those savings, I'm not going to say that doesn't help my quality of life, because I think it does. Like, I think about the fact that it allows me to live my life knowing that, you know, I'm building up this wealth. I was talking. Chady has six kids. Are you talking about the dogs or what? [1:22:21] Mark: Talking about us, the tab. [1:22:23] JD: I was fucking out of control. I loved how people were talking about how they can't afford to get divorced. Bill was talking about killing his wife and the time that he spent in jail. By the way, guys, Bill's going to join us as a guest on the show. He's a DCIO national manager. Yeah, he's going to come on. The way my world works is if [1:22:46] Chad: he's not in jail by that time. [1:22:47] Mark: And we need Webby for the hack conversation. I'm into that. [1:22:51] JD: The money hacks or something. The spending hacks. Yeah. I think I got pch, [1:22:59] Chad: Jennifer, by the way, I haven't done this for a while, but I have to make. I have to mention one thing. I wear a robe on the show. If you haven't. If you haven't seen it, I did notice. [1:23:12] Jennifer Sahadi: Didn't ask. [1:23:13] Chad: And I. And I have sponsors. I have many of them. [1:23:16] Mark: Okay. [1:23:17] Chad: And I know that you operate your own business, and I know that advertising can be quite expensive, so I'm here to offer you a stellar deal. If you would like to sponsor my robe, just know that she wants the forehead. [1:23:36] Justin: Get to the point, Mark. [1:23:38] Chad: Okay, I don't have a point, Justin. I'm just sort of stalling here. That I'm trying. I'm trying to get her to commit before I have to say anything specific. So if you want to. If you want to put your name, your business name anywhere on here, all it requires is a patch that you allow us to use your logo. We can make the patch for you. Brandon does that. Or you can create it yourself and send it to me. So you just let me know. It's free of charge as of right now. [1:24:04] Justin: When are you going to get legit and start, like, tattooing shit on your face? [1:24:09] Chad: Once I Run out of room on the road, Justin. I have to run out of room on the road before I tattoo post Malone status on my face. [1:24:17] Justin: All right? [1:24:19] Chad: So I'm just saying, just. [1:24:21] Jennifer Sahadi: I appreciate that. I will think of that. [1:24:23] JD: She'll think on it. You gave her a free opportunity to mark on your rub and her response is she'll think about it. Thanks. [1:24:34] Chad: Yeah, thanks to you guys for botching the beginning of the show. She's like, these guys aren't legit. Jesus. [1:24:40] Jennifer Sahadi: Like, what kind of branding would fit? I do everything myself. I do my own taxes. I created my own website. I do everything from scratch myself. I change my own oil. Like, I'm just that kid. To me, it's like I have a chance to learn something new and I don't have to pay someone else, like, double win for me. Like, I'm that kid through and through. I've got pounds. [1:25:02] Justin: Did you get 8 million back like Webby, too, from the government as I did? [1:25:07] Jennifer Sahadi: What? [1:25:07] Justin: Did you get 8 million back from the government for your tax returns too, like Webby? [1:25:11] Jennifer Sahadi: I did not. No. [1:25:14] JD: You don't use turbo. [1:25:15] Mark: Okay. [1:25:16] JD: All right, Jennifer, thanks for sticking around the after show. It was nice to meet you and chat. You're kind of a different vein than most of our guests that are very, like, foreign K specific. So that was fun for us to do something a little different. And yeah, if you ever need anything from the retireholics in the future, we'll think about advertising. You request it of us and then we'll think about it and we'll get. [1:25:44] Jennifer Sahadi: Then have a couple of drinks and say, yes, I'm thinking about a logo now. I'm like, what do I have? Like, how do I make that work? [1:25:52] JD: Brandon can make you a logo. We got the people for that. We'll make you a logo. [1:25:55] Jennifer Sahadi: Perfect. Yeah, you're way more polished than I am. [1:25:58] JD: I'm not kidding. We'll make you a logo, bro. We make logos like, Mark drinks beers. It's constant. [1:26:08] Chad: But I drink seltzer today. [1:26:10] Jennifer Sahadi: That was my only hesitation. I was like, I have to make a patch. [1:26:14] JD: Like that was her hesitation. We've got you covered. Okay? We're going to vote for our chapter champion today. But before we do, I just want to say to PCH out there, how many runs did your fucking Dodgers score today? Because it's zero to R5, so suck it. Okay, chat bar champion. What did I do? [1:26:39] Mark: His name. [1:26:40] Chad: His name. [1:26:42] JD: Fair enough. [1:26:43] Chad: He shall not be named. [1:26:44] Mark: He shall not. [1:26:46] JD: Who will your vote be? [1:26:48] Chad: They should be across the board. [1:26:50] Justin: One vote Todd. [1:26:51] JD: Damn it. Todd's mine too. So I had to simply for his comments on whatever I did. [1:26:58] Mark: Chad, what's your Todd's comment about trying. Trying to get Jennifer to say a bad word I really liked as well. Need to get her to say one swear word because you all chose Todd. The only other person that got two nods from me tonight was Alice Watts. So Alice gets my vote. It was early and then Alice got quiet. My guess is she's eating dinner. [1:27:20] JD: Alice. Alice, hit me up. I've been thinking about you. Don't tell anyone out there, but I'm thinking I might want to take up on you writing some blog post stuff for me. And we'll tell the rest of the world that I actually wrote it when you wrote it. So hit me up with a private message. I'm going to jump in on this. Mark your vote for chat bar champion. [1:27:41] Chad: Oh, the one, the only. [1:27:48] JD: Michael Webb was active. He was. [1:27:52] Chad: I mean. I mean, he basically runs our show at this point. He's. He's our executive producer. That's the title we'll give him. [1:28:00] JD: He was co producing tonight, so that definitely deserves a vote. All right, Jennifer, you watched that chat bar. I saw you were involved. You're engaging with people. Who's your pick? [1:28:11] Jennifer Sahadi: I'm gonna go with Pacific Coast Highway. [1:28:14] Mark: Yeah. Pacific Coast Highway. [1:28:20] Chad: Come on. [1:28:20] Mark: Yeah. Come on. [1:28:21] Chad: Yeah. [1:28:22] Mark: He who does not be named. I can't say his name. I'm not drinking for it right now. [1:28:28] Chad: I've already done it. [1:28:28] Mark: I made that mistake once. [1:28:30] Jennifer Sahadi: I like that. He was an early bird and very involved. [1:28:33] JD: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Be careful, Jennifer. If he messages you directly, just delete that shit. He sends you pictures of his food, you're in trouble. [1:28:49] Mark: Yeah. You get hungry the whole day. [1:28:50] Jennifer Sahadi: I do love that. [1:28:52] JD: Ooh, it's a tight one. It's looking pretty tight. Get a few more votes in before Brandon calls it. No, he calls it. Brandon calls it. The winner. Is he wearing a cowboy hat? The last time we saw him in the after show was that he's always [1:29:11] Mark: wearing a cowboy hat. [1:29:13] JD: Cowboy hat, wood paneled walls. That was one of my favorite after shows ever. [1:29:19] Mark: Fired up. I was a little nervous. [1:29:22] JD: Is the champion. Congratulations, Todd. We got to do something with Todd. We got to. I was a little scared to have him on as a guest, but could be a. Could be a baller move. Like. Could be something we need to do. I don't know. I don't know. [1:29:46] Chad: Hey. [1:29:46] JD: For [1:29:48] Jennifer Sahadi: little. [1:29:49] JD: Close it out for grand plays a song and then we'll head into the after show for just a little quick bit. Justin's probably going to play hockey, but we will be in Arizona in September, late September sometime, at Scottsdale, doing a live show on stage for institutional investor conference. So reach out to us or I'll post shit on that eventually here, but love to see some of you people there if that's somewhere in the neck of your woods. We'll be doing a live on stage show in Chicago later that same month and then we will be in Nashville in October for wealth at Work. Would love to see you there. Reach out to us, message us if. Yeah, Aaron Hall's going to be our guest guys, by the way, in Scottsdale. [1:30:38] Mark: Oh, nice. [1:30:40] JD: On stage. [1:30:41] Mark: That'll be good. [1:30:43] JD: I was gonna fucking say something else, but I forgot, so fuck it. All right, Jennifer, thank you so much for spending this time with us and good luck to you as you continue to help people and we appreciate all that work that you're doing and it'll be fun to watch financial wellness evolve. Thanks to all of you that are tuning in out there. We love you. We appreciate you. Except for the ones that are Dodgers fans. The ones that are Dodgers fans. You all can just fuck off and. And probably just. [1:31:16] Mark: Jeez. [1:31:17] JD: Yeah, just off. All right, Brandon, let's play a little music. And. Yeah. [1:31:22] Chad: Thank you, Jennifer. [1:31:24] Jennifer Sahadi: Thank you all. [1:31:26] JD: Oh, this hurts. My song I was gonna play. I got a tape I want to play. I didn't my song work. I know how hard I've gotten.