Dick Darien: 401(k) Consolidation & Advisor Fee Compression | Retireholics

[0:02] JD: Hey, what's up, everybody? How are you doing? We have missed you so much. I've been thinking about you over the past holidays. Life just hasn't been the same without you little 401k fuckers. But now you're back. We are so happy that you are back. My liver has been on a three week break and it is ready to absorb some serious booze today. So I am very excited about that. My liver is excited. I suggest, or I hope that your brain is like my liver. And instead of booze, your brain will be soaking up the glorious 401k knowledge that we are about to drop on you today. It's gonna be sick. I need to find the lyrics that I had up here that I before [1:06] Chad: you started researching really inappropriate people. [1:08] JD: Thank you, Chad. It's exactly. What happened is Dick hasn't even spoken and he's already derailed me on the show. So great things are about to happen. [1:17] Chad: Petey always does image searches, Nick. So when you told him to search that guy, he image searched and it led to really bad things. [1:23] JD: Okay, look, we are in a new year, guys. [1:26] Justin: Come on. [1:27] JD: We are in a new year. It is the start of a whole new chapter. And like every new year, you know, we are excited to accomplish new things, reach new heights. We are not all sloth like Mark. Some of us have aspirations to reach the 401k nirvana that we all hope for. [1:49] Dick Darien: So. [1:50] JD: So I've put together a little bit of words to share with you all Deep from my heart. Here we go, Brannon. I can almost see it, that dream we're dreaming but there's a voice inside our head saying we'll never reach it Every step we're taking, every move we make feels lost with no direction My faith is shaking but we've got to keep trying We've got to keep our heads held high there's always going to be another mountain. We're always going to want to make it move Sometimes or always. We're going to be an uphill battle. Fuck, I screwed up the lyrics. Sometimes we're going to make the lyrics. It ain't about how fast we get and it's not about what's on the other side. Because when you're going after 401k nirvana, people, it's all about the client. Okay, good. And if you are going after this 401k nirvana, a great way to do that is to hang out with four drunk guys and a 401k icon. So that's what we're going to do today. And let me introduce you to who's joining us. We have had some big shots on this show, right? We have had Fred Reich, the Reshe Nator. Nevin Adams goes by the name Nev these days. Mr. Sal Tripote, several CEOs of large financial institutions. But some people out there might say that today is the coolest, biggest, most influential guest we have ever had. Maybe even bigger than Bill Chetney. We'll ask our guest here in a bit how he compares himself to Chetney in terms of 401k largeness, whatever the word might be. [4:01] Chad: There really are your words. You can tell there's been a hiatus for jd. [4:06] JD: We are the. [4:08] Justin: I'm going to use that a lot. [4:09] Dick Darien: We are the use girth. [4:11] JD: But anyway, we are the benefactors of his career, which has really gone from many different roles from a TPA to a record keeper to an asset manager to an advisor shop to now in mergers and acquisitions. He sent an email to me and he said, I got in my first fight at a concert because these people stole my seat back in like 1970 something. I think it was Blue Oyster Cult. And I said to myself, why did he reference it as his first fight? Is there many fights after that? So I'll ask him that as we go. He is the CEO of wiserino Group. What's up with that name? I call him the Sensei of m and a. Mr. Dick Darian. Welcome to Retireholics, guys. [5:06] Dick Darien: Great to be here. Look, you guys have a long way to overcome that song like I was hoping for. Of course. Black Sabbath, boys to Cult, something, you know, even, you know, Black Oak, Arkansas, you know, Jim, Dany, I don't know. [5:21] JD: Well, Dick, stay tuned, stay tuned because we've got some surprises for you coming along. So hang on. [5:27] Dick Darien: I think I'll recover from it. That, that was great to be here. It's great to meet you guys. I've been looking forward to this and I'm hoping that my true self comes out today. [5:36] JD: I'm sure it will like every episode. Let's get to a little bit of housekeeping. Housekeeping. Make sure. Make sure you're in gallery view. If you don't know how to do that, go ask your fucking kids. I don't know. That way you can see all of us at the same time. We are, we are gonna have a chat bar champion. Of course it's gonna be the new chat bar champion of 2021. Dick, the way that works is pay attention to the chat bar. You're gonna have a vote for someone at the end of this show, that was the funniest, the wittiest, the most intelligent, whatever. They caught your attention for whatever reason, you vote for them and they win all the cash and prizes. Dick, are you familiar with the prohibitive word game that we play? [6:30] Dick Darien: Not really, no. [6:31] JD: Okay. But I can imagine we are going to pick a word, and if you say that word at any point during this show, you must drink from your hard alcohol drink or something nasty should be around there. And Mark, you did a little research lot, right? [6:53] Chad: What I said? Yes, Mark, I intend to say the word a lot. I saw you look at me like, what are you drinking? [6:58] JD: You told me. [6:59] Justin: I think it's just the color of the glass. It looked like your drink was half orange, half blue. And I just thought, are you drinking hypnotic or something, man? What the heck is that? [7:09] Chad: Of course. No, it's a whiskey smash. So I think all the whiskey is starting to migrate to the top right now, and the smash is sitting in the bottom. [7:18] Justin: Migrate? Come on, Chad, you're describing a drink. Dude, use smart, stupider wor so I can understand. Please research JD Going back to you. Sorry, we're just not even talking about the show. Research about what? [7:30] JD: I saw an email from you saying you'd listen to on some podcasts, and he has already. [7:36] Justin: Like when JD actually sends out notes to plan ahead appropriately. On Wednesday night before our Thursday night show, I do some research, which means listening to Rick Unser's 401k Friday's podcasts while I go to sleep because he's so soothing. It's kind of like Chad listening to Headspace. But, Dick, first of all, we're honored to have you on, but I realized that you said participant probably 65,000 times in a 20 minute period. So I wrote an email to the guys last night while falling asleep that we should use that word. So that's the research that I did. [8:11] Dick Darien: Wow. [8:13] JD: Participant will be the word. [8:15] Dick Darien: I like it. [8:17] JD: Do not say it or suffer but the severe penalties. And Chad, I want to remind you myself and all future guests, if you go mix drink for your penalty drink, it must be a stiff one. Okay, okay. [8:32] Dick Darien: Good, good, good. [8:33] JD: All right. [8:34] Dick Darien: By the way, I asked some of them. I've got three kids and three grandkids, my wife, and they've never seen me on any of these things. So I asked them to watch tonight because I said this was going to be pretty representative of what I'd done for a living the last 38 years. So perfect. So if you guys are on this is it. This is what I do. [8:51] Justin: So what are their names? What are their names? [8:54] Dick Darien: It's Mary, my wife, and then Brian, Kelly, and Nathan, and Sarah and Matt. [9:01] Justin: Good job. [9:02] JD: Congrats. If you missed that question, that would have been a rough start. [9:06] Dick Darien: It was close, though. You see that? I almost folded after questioning jd. [9:11] Justin: All right, I see Brian. I see Brian. [9:13] Chad: He's here. [9:14] Dick Darien: He's probably watching with Sarah. And by the way, my kids married, taller, better looking, smarter people. So genetically speaking, we killed it, right? [9:22] JD: You're evolving as a family. Yeah, me too. Me too. [9:28] Chad: JD's wife's family doesn't say the same thing. [9:30] JD: Well, my kids are definitely superior versions of me in all ways, but. Okay, you have been on several shows that I've really enjoyed. And so, to everyone listening in, if you haven't listened to Dick on Rick Unser's podcast, please do the 4.1K TV guy, Fred Barnstein. Do I get his last name right? Barnstein. [9:49] Dick Darien: See, I was really happy to be a participant on the show. [9:52] JD: Yeah, he had a great conversation with you. [9:54] Dick Darien: Oh, hey. Wow. [9:58] JD: Like a true. Like a true pro, he's, like, doing it on purpose. [10:02] Dick Darien: All right. I just had to do one just to get ready. Okay, go ahead. [10:05] JD: Fair enough. I don't want to go down the same line of questions and things that they had for you. And you do a phenomenal job by the way of explaining your career and how you got to this point. I'm gonna spare everyone that. If they want to hear that, they can go listen to it on those shows. What the audience needs to know is this dude knows his shit, and he's been in all those different areas. So we're just super fortunate to get his take on all this stuff. So let's skip past all the intros, all. All the bios, all the. I worked at blackrock and I worked with Chetney and all this kind of stuff. And let's just get straight into it, if that's okay with you, Dick. [10:48] Dick Darien: Good. Yeah. Love it. Let's talk plain and simple. [10:52] Chad: I mean, I wake up in the [10:53] Dick Darien: morning, I piss excellence. [10:57] JD: Record keepers. Advisors, TPAs, asset managers, mutual funds, whatever. Their roles have, in my mind, pretty well defined over the past decade. Two decades. Do you see that these roles are morphing? Are they in flux? Is something changing in our industry? And as we talk about this today, try to focus on the people that are tuning in. And these are Advisors, these are TPAs. How will this impact them? But I know I've heard you talk with Rick. Talk with Fred. Tell me of Your opinion, what's happening to our industry right now? [11:41] Dick Darien: So, you know, let me, let me give you a little historical perspective and it will begin to answer that question. So in my second job, I worked at a benefit consulting firm. And I worked, and I mentioned you guys, I worked with the NFL. They were my client. And it was at the time, it was the organization, this is 85 through 97. And it was at the time, 30 teams before expansion. And we put them in, we designed their plan. So it was a Burke Bell pension fund and we were the TPA for their plan. And then we built the players 401k plan in 93. So what did we do? We put them in CITs and we did balance forward valuations. So that was 1985. In 2020, what did they have? CITs. And those are back. [12:29] JD: Just like fashion. It's back in. [12:31] Dick Darien: Yeah, it's back in. So you know what happened. And you guys know this historically, in late 80s, you had the, you know, the Tuesday market crash. You know, Fidelity, others stepped in from TPAs because frankly, TPAs dominated in the 80s and they came in with technology and fund access and that was the next 30 years. And it got away from one basic thing, which is who are the rightful owners? Who should be providing the services? Who are the rightful owners of the services? Is it a record keeper? Is it a fun company? Is it an advisor who should be doing the work? If you get even more granular, if an individual in a plan is going to be advised. See how we got around. [13:19] Chad: Yeah, well done. Well done like that. [13:22] Dick Darien: Who's the best organization to advise them objectively and not sure it's a record keeper, not sure it's a fun company, pretty sure it's an objective individual. So I don't think it's changing. I think it's coming back full circle to all the services going to the rightful owners, those that can truly under a microscope, add value and be the best, you know, fiduciary, best person to provide those services. [13:51] JD: I love that you already leaned into the fact that you think it's the advisor that's really in that key role. I've got a little LinkedIn post out there today that's getting a lot of action, a lot of heat, back and forth debate. Do you, do you foresee a war, a fight between advisors, record keepers, for control of these participants or the I'll drink or the ability to monetize them? Like, is it, are we in for some kind of battle? [14:25] Dick Darien: By the way, this is about the time my family Just put on the Bravo channel. So I just wanted to make that. [14:30] Chad: Give it time, give it time because. [14:32] Dick Darien: Yeah, exactly. Selling LA is definitely more interesting. So no, I don't think, you know, it's interesting. So we brought together a bunch of the aggregators, you know, the large firms and you know, I'll just say Fielding Miller from captrust kind of said, you know, I need long term the technology that the large record keeping platforms have. And if you think about the, you know, whatever the number is, 100, you know, 100 million plan folks and what they need and they're not getting, you know, any implant advice right now everybody's focused on rollovers, you know, it's a huge world and you begin to segment and you go high net worth mass app and with everybody else and what I think is going to happen and it gets back to my comment about the rightful owner of the service. It's going to be segmented, it's going to be ultimately shared and if you look at any industry that consolidates at some point you have much more of a kind of a shared coop petition and you start to kind of, you know, it's not going to be one firm, it's going to be many firms but doing the work they do best. And I think that includes TPAs. And I always felt that a TPA, frankly who had an advisory business was probably the best suited organization to service a company. [15:54] JD: Interesting. By the way, the audience is crushing it. The chat bar, such great opinions and things. Brad asked and it kind of goes to what you were just saying, like well hey, can't we just work together? And, and you talked about being segmented and I think there will be solutions where things work together. But I also feel as though, and I want to get your thoughts and some of your guys thoughts too. Will not these record keepers feel some pressure from some new people in this space? Some of these new kind of disruptor, record keeper types I've also heard you talk about and this should be fun to discuss for our audience. You talked about Amazon and Google potentially getting into this industry. So what I'm envisioning is a moment where record keepers are going to have to compete with these other entities and these other entities do something that you referred to as they give away the peanuts to sell the popcorn. And so my answer to Brad out there in the audience which is like, well, can't we all just get along and cooperate and have it be teamwork? I think it's going to get a little messier and I think the gloves are going to come off because some of these large financial institutions are going to be competing with these other things. And the only way to compete is to give away their peanuts and offer stuff for free, which means they will have to monetize. And I'll say this on purpose, the participant. Dick, am I fucking crazy? [17:21] Dick Darien: No, but let's start in the beginning. You made a comment. Let me give you a. You know, so here we are in Washington with all this craziness as the Russians are hacking our country, right? But look at our business where you've got three levels. You've got the institutional plan sponsor client, you've got the participant. [17:43] JD: On purpose, bro. [17:45] Dick Darien: Yeah, but there's a third level, you know, and it's kind of the alter ego to the participants. It's the employee and it's the non. It's the, it's, it's the non plan person. And this is something where Chetney's focused on Bill Chetney's focus on it right now. It's all the things that people will buy at the work site. Payroll, it's, you know, banking, it's other stuff. And that's going to be the hacking point, I think, for a large financial organization to come in and disintermediate potential of the business. So it's not going to be, hey, I want to be a record keeper. It's not going to be hey, I want to be a fund manager or a tpa. It's going to be, I'm going to take over the fricking records and the financial information, the data. And that's where it's going to happen. So as we're fighting about how all of us should be doing this, trust me, if you look at when I was at BlackRock, BlackRock was aligning with Microsoft, Amazon was aligning with JP Morgan, Facebook was aligning with American. I mean that's what's going on. And so look, that's a little conspiracy theory, but that's a real, real risk. [18:53] Chad: It really doesn't stray far from their original business model. Right. What they want is access. Advertisers pay on Facebook and Amazon and Google. They want access to people, they want attention. That's what they're all paying for. So when can you most access people from a financial perspective is going to be when they're looking at their paychecks, when they're involved in their 401k, when they're looking at their group health. And that's what these businesses want into. And it's, it's following the footsteps that have made them successful. They're looking to access people. [19:25] Justin: Yeah. [19:26] JD: I think the serious question, though, my question though for you is, and I know that advisor shops vary, but will that be in direct competition with some of the advisors? [19:38] Chad: Absolutely. [19:39] JD: Like when Empower purchases personal capital for a billion dollars, is it a rollover game or is it a rollover game and then a selling other things type of game to the employees within the plan? Because I think it's both. And so I'm just wondering. You should have really good optics on this, Dick, and pretty solid opinions like, are we moving towards that direction or am I just being crazy conspiracy theorists in that no, advisors will be fine with the fact that the record keepers got all this great tech and these tools to service the employees and the plans, and they'll benefit from that. And I think there are some that'll feel that way, but there's others that are kind of pissed off about it, are they not? [20:21] Dick Darien: Yeah, they are. So go to the top of the market with Aon, Mercer, all those firms. And 10 years ago, they went through exactly what our advisory firms are going through now, which is fee compression on the retirement consulting business. Aon Immersive went through that. Their pivot was to go to OCIO outsourced CIO business. And they were able to also, that meant building out collective structures. That meant building out custom target dates. And they were able to keep the record keepers at bay because they own the client. These were gigantic plans. Okay, so that was stepping up. We're in the same exact scenario with advisors who are, you know, and we've done, you know, 75 sell side and buy side transactions. And I will tell you, on every deal we see advisor to advisor fee compression happening before our eyes and the data we get and they just like the national consulting firms, just like the record keepers, they're going to have to pivot away from their core consulting services to now go to the next opportunity, which is the plan individual. And they have to decide what are they going to do there. Now, Empower and others have gone through the same thing. The question which gets back to one of your prior questions is, will Empower use personal capital as a partner? And everything they're doing right now with managed accounts and other things says that they will. But look, Ed Murphy comes from Fidelity, and Fidelity is dominating the world. And they're direct and that's their mission and they don't apologize for it. So the question there is, what? And again, Chris Doucette cringes every time I talk about this, but so far they're partners. But I do think it's going to be a segmentation partnership with the empowers of the world, with advisors. And the question is, will it be organized in a way where each party does what they should be doing? And frankly, empower should not unless they buy captrust. They shouldn't be in the business necessarily of advising participants on where to put the money. But they might build that. They've got personal capital. [22:35] JD: Is that a violation? There you go. I definitely believe that it is the advisor that really is in control here. And I think that when these things that you've worked on, when the One Digitals and Vince Morris and the Hubs and all build these kind of large armies of advisors in the 401k space. Hey, hey, Brooke. I feel like that they create some power and they create some ability to kind of push back if we see this happening. And all I want to say to the audience and maybe we'll circle back to this a little bit is just be aware of it, like be cognizant of it. Don't fall asleep at the wheel because the tin foil hat wearing guy and me says this shit could slip away from us really quickly. And yes, Chad, you can set this [23:27] Chad: aside for after you do another segment. Cause I think that's what you're moving into. But I'm curious from Dick's perspective, what advisors should be doing to be prepared for a lot of this change. Because we know it's coming and we see, I'll call them the big boys. We see the One Digital and Hub and many of the others starting to make some significant changes. But we got plenty of folks on here from LPL and from different broker dealers that maybe aren't so focused in the 401 space. So what should those folks be doing? I'm very curious. [23:59] Dick Darien: Here's the tough news, right? So we spent a lot of time, we're on the sell side. We're also doing, you know, we represented Aqualine in the purchase of Sageview two weeks ago. So we're seeing all of these giant buy side firms, Chad, like captrust, like Sageview, like Hub and et cetera. And mark my words, in a number of years, where are they focused mostly is in making that middle business where they engage the individual, they provide advice, they are, they are getting to know them. And this is a bit of a back to the future because when I started, guys like me and jd, your dad and Bill Chetney's dad, we worked in the lunchroom at Hospitals talking to doctors, signing apps. Well, we're coming back to that. But now there's technology and all sorts of other stuff that makes so it's a bit of a flattening of the world and there's a capability there. So what captrust will do, if you look at their business right now and they just, they've got a bunch of acquisitions and we're involved in some of them that they're going to be announcing they're going to be at almost half a trillion in assets. And if you look at that, here's what's fascinating. Half a trillion in assets, 25 billion of the 500 billion is wealth but it's 50% of the profit margin. Guess where they're going to focus their time? Finding more 401k plans or engaging the individual. That's an easy one. So the bigger challenge though is as they do that and they have a huge profit margin in the wealth. This is the peanuts and popcorn comment, JD they now go back and say to their billion dollar plan, we'll do this stuff for nothing. [25:41] JD: Sure. [25:42] Justin: Yeah. [25:42] Dick Darien: And that's the problem. And that's exactly what happened on the record keeping side with scale and everything else as she has consolidation. So it's just, this is the way it goes. And you've got 10 firms that are trying to catch up right now, the cap Trust doing that. So that's going to become table stakes. So look, it's why we're so busy. A lot of this is going to be about how do I, if I'm going to stay independent, how do I fight that? What organizations will allow me to be independent and still do that. I still think there'll be other models out there where you don't have to sell your business, but it's going to get tougher. And by the way, record keepers, national consulting firms, they consolidate because of exactly the same dynamics. [26:24] JD: Chad, we did jump ahead a little bit and I want to get my lips on a Smirnoff Ice if I'm not lucky. But I want to talk a little bit later. I don't think that all these big power players are going to be swimming the waters of these $500,000 takeovers or $1.5 million plans or startups or even $3 million plans. And so I think there's this micro market that sometimes gets freaked out by all this big talk of all this Dick Darien Wise Rhino Group kind of stuff. [27:01] Chad: And I disagree. [27:03] JD: You don't think they're insulated from that [27:05] Chad: a little bit no, because I think the majority of advisors that are going to focus in that space are going to end up at a hub or a one Digital or captrust or these others. And then the market share is going to switch from the independent advisor and into these advisors that have all these resources because they're locking in with a strategic team that's going to do much of this legwork and commoditize that space for them. [27:27] JD: I have zero issues with that. All I'm saying is I don't want the advisors to get screwed by other entities because I don't feel like plans work without the advisor at the helm. You can create all the tech you want, you can use all the data you want. If you don't have boots on the ground, all that shit gathers dust. Now that might make me seem like an old school type of guy, but I've just seen it play out over and over and over again and I just think the advisors are absolutely paramount to making anything work now and in the future. [28:07] Justin: Agreed. [28:07] Chad: Completely. [28:09] Dick Darien: I do think it's a timing issue. I think it starts at the top and worked its way down. It's going to take some time. If you look at one Digital, which we helped, we helped them acquire resources in 16 firms. They've got 50,000 small, you know, literally micro small benefits clients. And their strategy right now is to use the benefits and PNC business to cross sell 401k into that. So you're going to see. So will that be the. Will you see a lot of that? J.D. no, it's going to take time. I think the under 100 market, we're years away. Unless, you know, unless of course, you know, Pepsi, you know, create something different. [28:47] JD: We're gonna talk, we'll talk about that in a little bit. Brandon. Less, less. Let's bring up that wheel, that legit wheel. I'm so happy I found myself a 12 ounce smearing off at the store today. [29:02] Chad: I had to buy sugar free in order to get it. [29:07] JD: Now let's spin that wheel of ice. [29:11] Dick Darien: The wheel of ice. [29:12] JD: The wheel of ice. [29:21] Chad: Oh, that looked like it was the old days. [29:24] JD: All right, until next, until next week. Smear knoth. Ice. [29:29] Justin: I have to admit something. [29:31] Chad: Oh, no. [29:33] Justin: I ran out. I ran out of it. [29:36] Chad: Okay, I got you. [29:37] JD: Mark, wait. [29:41] Justin: I found this Arctic Summer in my. [29:49] JD: That's fair. It's a solid replacement. That's a solid replacement. [29:54] Chad: I did ice Mark on New Year's Eve, so he did drink a Smirnoff ice at my dinner table on New Year's Eve doesn't count. [30:04] JD: Let's, let's, let's tackle Peps. Shannon's fired up on Peps. I saw, I saw Kate Clark trying to get the whole Pep conversation started. [30:16] Chad: Before you go there, there was a good Q and A that came through and it from Nathan a while ago which is Dick, who's your favorite child? [30:23] Dick Darien: That's my son in law and I think everybody knows it. I don't think I have to say it. At least my family knows it. [30:29] Chad: Oh, throwing a few Q&As in there. I kind of want to hear it though. [30:34] JD: So quick to answer that. [30:38] Dick Darien: So I'll just let it out. It's my dog Bob for sure. And I told JD before this open up. [30:44] JD: Why before we jump straight to Pepso, more to our base of advisors that maybe aren't mega advisors. Let's say that all these big firms come out with all this great stuff and they've got all this tech and they're cross selling these different things. And I can see how that would work really well at a, you know, 500 person company or a 10,000 person company and they create the scale and lower pricing and blah blah blah. But if I walk into a point of sale to a $1.5 million plan with 15 people with account balances avoiding the P word and I talk to them about me being local, me being experienced, some of the different things that I offer my hands on approach, maybe I even talk some shit about the big shops like oh, they got all their stupid tech and this and that. But does it really matter to that small company? Do they really give a crap about all that other stuff that the large companies care about? Because you guys, Chad, Mark, Justin, you spend a lot of time in a point of sale and I could. Am I. Does that make sense? Like I don't think it'll be that impactful in that area. Do you? [32:01] Chad: You're asking me or Dick? [32:03] JD: I'm asking you guys. I'm asking Chad, Marker, Justin. I don't think Dick spends a lot of time in the $1.5 million point of sale rooms these days. I could be wrong. [32:14] Chad: That was kind of my comment a little bit ago around the advisors that will jump ship and end up in one of these large aggregators is that I still think, at least in the world I live in, that 70% of the business is going to be written by an advisor who will sell three in their career. That's the way it still is right now. It's the way it was when I Started a decade ago. And those folks are not going to jump ship and end up at a hub. They're not going to jump ship and end up at A1 Digital. And will those folks fall off in this space because the empowers of the world start offering full financial planning to the average participant? [32:50] Justin: No, you failed, sir. [32:52] Chad: I needed one and that's my fear. Jd, when I wrote you on the chat bar a minute ago and said I want to get deeper into this, one of the questions I had for Dick is in this small space will we see advisors just leverage the RK tech and stay away from the full wellness side within the 401k plan. [33:12] JD: And by the way, why does it have to be the RK tech? There's plenty of independent tech out there. [33:17] Chad: I get it. But in some of his prior conversations he talked about this being commoditized. In my mind, if it's going to be commoditized, it's going to end up in the RK's world. It's going to end up in the record keeping world. [33:26] Dick Darien: You know, I think they'll, I think your assessment is right. You know, if you look at Cap Trust and you look at Sage, all these big firms, ultimately they're going to have to create, maybe it's not a pep, but it's a small plan product and it's going to have to be put into a kind of a non custom. You know, if it's not a pep, it'll look like a pep. You know, same lineup, same services, same everything. So you know, Captrus is doing that now where they say we, you know, they say our revenue bogey is say 25,000 on a retirement plan and 10,000 on a wealth client. And that's what we do. And then anything under that goes into a house account. So to JD's point, look, I think there's always, if you look at any industry, there's the leaders, followers and niche players and leaders and niche players survive and followers do not. And I think that for a long time coming there's still going to be, to your point Chad, many, many even wealth clients who have great relationships who are not going to lose their five plans. What's going to happen though over the next 10 years you're going to have much larger, if you look at the mega space, and I put this in some of my material right now, half of the assets in our business is managed by or 76%, I'm sorry is managed by 130 firms. 76% of the eight assets the assets. Now that's misleading because there's tons of smaller plans that have, that are viable, that are managed by everybody else and that's a huge world. So. [35:06] JD: And Dick, Dick also like we're here in Cali, you know we're looking at Cal Savers mandates coming up this year and next year that are going to force much smaller employers to either join the state run plan or create their own. So this bottom side of the market, this small market could see just tons of tens of thousands of plans just in our state alone growing. So anyways, yes Chad, can I ask [35:36] Chad: because we're all predicting what is happening, what will be happening, will it work? If there is a significant amount of tech that is around Financial wellness, which we've been seeing come into the space for a while and everybody is trying to leverage that employee that is part of the 401k plan, will they be able to drive enough revenue to justify the cost they're putting into that space? [36:01] Dick Darien: Well, you know it's interesting. So I sold the first business that, it's called Wims, Ash and Rand. We sold adp and I got to know payroll a little bit and the first thing I did was rail on how shitty their service was. And then I realized that they were actually solving for price and simplicity. So they like why would they offer a $2,000 awesome product when the buyer only wanted to pay $500. So I think in the small market as you get back to like this growth, there will be solutions that are going to be efficient tech machines that will be lower cost, that will be easier. That's the thing. And the question is what will that do? Because it created in the payroll industry like four major players. It created, look at like Amazon. That's what happens. Like you get, you know, so that's a question, will that happen and how will that affect. I don't think we're near there yet but it's coming. It's gone from mega to large to mid. That's where we are right now, the mid, small, upper end of the small is all of this consolidation going on with the, you know, the, you know, the Vince Morrises and the Kathleen Kelly's and it's not down the next level down. What's interesting about that is that you're going to start to see many more consolidation. The synergy on M and A is not just building out a giant wealth, a giant retirement organization. That, that's not interesting. What's interesting is bringing together, you know, and this is not new wealth and retirement. It's kind of reconnecting the way the wires are and were, but doing it differently and you break what if you watch what captrust is doing, they're buying mostly wealth businesses because they want to engage the individual participants. So you're just going to see more and more assets being and the question is, what will that mean? And it's not going to be better than it is today, but there'll still be opportunities for sure for a long time. [38:10] JD: Dick, you owe us a drink for the P word. Thank you, Chad. That's kind of scary. His response there is saying, hey, in this really small micro market you could see people creating cheap, efficient tech based solutions. It's funny, if my dad was on this show he'd be like, I heard that shit 20 years ago. But when Silicon Valley was blowing up, he thought our industry was going to go to nothing in a poof of dust. But it never happened. And I still see companies like Guideline and Betterment who I think came out kind of trying to fill that hole like they were really looking at the micro market and kind of waving this flag of like low cost. And the reality is when you break them down, I really don't think they're that impressive of a, of a solution that's really like changing anything. They're kind of just more of the same, repackaged. They've cut out certain roles and done certain things. But anyways, I'll bet you Shannon and Sue and some people out there might agree with me. I think that 401k even on a 15 person plan to the Silicon Valley coder and apparently Dick did some coding back in the day by the way, I believe. But it looks as though it could be fixed, right? Oh, it's easy. We're going to have a 360 payroll, we're going to get the data, we're going to put all these provisions into our computer. Like robots can do this stuff. We don't need humans to do it. But what they fail to recognize is the support and the questions and the things that go wrong in the day to day of running a retirement plan. And I can tell you for a fact, I know that a lot of those disruptors that hit this marketplace in the last five years and are backed by tens of millions of VC capital dollars are really struggling with that fact, that reality, that holy shit, this wasn't as easy as it looked on our blueprint and they're starting to get a little dose of reality. [40:19] Dick Darien: Yeah, I remember meeting with Betterment when I was at Blackrock and they called me over to 23rd and 6th in New York and Jonathan Stein, the whole crew, and I'm 58 and they're like 12. And I look around the room and I just go, you guys don't know a fucking thing, do you? And they just. No one laughed. [40:40] JD: Hey, in that vein, you, I would think you're kind of the go to M and A consultant right now. You're involved in a lot of these deals. You have your ear to the ground and the ones that you're not involved in. And by the way, hey, everyone, we've had a lot of news in your area these last few days, these last few weeks. Pretty interesting stuff. But who did this before you? They, like 10 years ago, five years ago. And who do you have competitors? Like, who are your main competitors? Is there anyone? [41:13] Dick Darien: Yeah, so it's a function of the industries that consolidate. So I would say on the advisory side, the world that's been along the longest is benefits and pnc. That started in the kind of the early part of the 20th century, right? So, you know, you know, it's funny, you know, PNC firms have been popping up forever and there have been firms that have formed around that that are, you know, that are focused in benefits and pnc, and there's a bunch of those. And then on the wealth side, you know, there's a ton of really high quality wealth businesses that do M and A. You know, our thing is, it's kind of funny, we've had a couple calls from some of these other firms saying we're coming into your space. And I say, that's great. You can compete with us. All you need to do is get a fucking time machine, go back 40 years, get out, do what I did, and then gain the trust and knowledge and you'd be great. That was a throwdown, by the way, to a guy who called me about two weeks ago who actually said that to me. [42:18] Chad: Trying to threaten you. [42:20] Dick Darien: Well, yeah, bring it on. He's actually a New York guy. And he didn't know I was like, I worked in New York for 30 years. He goes, hey, you're in Charleston, South Carolina. We actually work hard up here in New York. And I said, I'll out fucking New York you any day of the week. [42:33] Chad: He must be a Giants fan. [42:38] Dick Darien: No, see the helmet is that. [42:41] Chad: I said, he must be a Giants. [42:43] Dick Darien: Oh, he is. I want some pity, by the way. Jets helmet, please. [42:49] Chad: Yeah, you're talking to a Raiders fan right there. You can't get. [42:51] Dick Darien: All right, you're Not. [42:52] Justin: Yeah, I think my house might be on fire. [42:54] JD: Hey, Dick, Rule number one of retireholics. Don't start talking NFL with Mark and Chad and Justin, because will go off the rails really fast. Stay away from it, Mark. We play a game. Let's name the game. Explain the game to Dick, because he doesn't know. [43:13] Justin: Wait, so, like, we're still doing this? [43:15] JD: Yeah, everyone loves that game. [43:18] Justin: Even in our new. In our new season of our show, we're not changing our segments. [43:23] JD: Brandon does want us to change some things up. We will do that. But people love the game. [43:29] Justin: I took that as a subtle hint that we were stopping this. But anyways, I'll continue. Dick. It's a game called. There's the intro. The lame game. Pretty simple stuff. [43:46] JD: Look at the chat bar, Mark. They love it. [43:49] Justin: You're a smart guy, Dick. I can tell. The point of the game is I'm just gonna ask you some questions, and you tell me if you're game or if you think it's lame. That. Does that sound easy enough? [43:58] Dick Darien: Yeah. [43:59] Justin: All right. And I'll always start with you. I'll get your input first, because your [44:03] Dick Darien: input actually matters, by the way, on all of it. Okay. Okay. [44:07] Justin: Well, we will see. Okay. Leaving your Christmas decorations up after New Year's, is that lame, or are you game? Oh, it's lame, Slim. [44:22] Dick Darien: Yeah, my wife, she took. She took the Christmas decorations down a week before Christmas, so I had to say lame. [44:29] Justin: Well, that's kind of. That's not okay. I don't know about that, but I [44:33] Dick Darien: don't want to get into it. [44:34] Justin: Yeah. All right. We won't start any drama on our show, Chad. [44:39] Chad: I would normally say lame, but my mom called me. Called me out this year and said, hey, if Christmas decorations bring me joy, I'm going to put them up in October and take them down in February if I want. Mom. So they're still up here. [44:53] Justin: The question was asked to you, Chad, not your mommy. [44:57] Chad: So I'm saying under normal circumstances, lame. This year, I'm saying game. It was 2020, now 2021, and I am game. They're still up, [45:07] Justin: Justin. [45:09] Chad: Well, I can't say lame because they're still up. [45:12] Dick Darien: So [45:15] Justin: kind of the point of my question. [45:17] Chad: Two weeks or less. [45:18] Dick Darien: You're good, J.D. [45:21] JD: well, Mark, you're not 49 years old, and you haven't climbed on my roof and hung over the edge to pin all those lights up. And I. Mine are still up out of pure fear, because I don't want to go back up there again and Take them down. [45:36] Justin: Oh, my. You know, my thought there is. You just leave them things up there till now. There's no point in trying to turn them on. Yeah, yeah, I'm. I actually. [45:46] JD: We went on a walk. [45:47] Justin: This is derailing your whole show. But we want to walk the other night like this before Christmas and like a night walk. And saw the old decorations. And I told Maria, my wife, I said maybe I should start designing houses that have pre lit Christmas lights in them and I would just make a ton of money and I'll just quit working as a drunk person on the show. [46:09] JD: Hey, Doug Delzel, did you let your kids use the chainsaw? You Tannis. Man alive. [46:14] Dick Darien: Sorry. [46:14] Justin: All right, next question. [46:15] Dick Darien: Dick, before the next question, I saw Sherry Fitz. Can I jump in? Sherry Fitz said, what is the little red thing? And I just want to say, like I asked, you know, I have granddaughters, so when I talk to them on the phone is what I do. So that's the little red thing. [46:30] JD: Right up. [46:32] Justin: Terrifying. [46:32] Dick Darien: Yeah. Thank you. I. John Wayne Gacy was my model for that. [46:38] Justin: Nice. All right, next question. [46:40] JD: Brandon, make sure the monkey's on tap. Thank you. [46:45] Justin: New Year's resolutions and. Don't answer yet. Don't answer yet. I'm gonna ask you if you've made any and then I'm gonna tell you if it's lame or game. Okay, Dick. [46:56] Dick Darien: Yes. [46:57] JD: What is it? [46:58] Justin: What is it? [46:58] Dick Darien: To go from four chins to three chins. [47:03] Justin: Okay, that's fine. [47:06] Dick Darien: It's not gonna happen. But that. Oh, and again, my wife is listening, so she would. I'm gonna get a hug for that. So. Honey, I'm trying to. [47:14] Justin: Chad, [47:17] Chad: I did make a couple of New Year's resumes. [47:20] Justin: Yeah, and you. Let me guess, let me guess. You wrote them down. [47:23] Chad: I did write them down, Mark. And I meditated on them as well. One of them is to support you guys more, hopefully. Josh, [47:35] Justin: that's so. [47:35] Chad: Hey, I will say, Mark text me today and said, I need your help. I need your brain. Can you call me back? I call him back and then he still has not responded to me. [47:43] Dick Darien: Me since. [47:44] Chad: So maybe you don't want my help, Mark. I don't. [47:47] Justin: Justin. [47:49] Dick Darien: Nope. [47:49] Chad: Don't make them. So you're not disappointed in yourself when you don't complete them. [47:55] Justin: All right, there you go, everyone. Justin doesn't have goals. [47:59] JD: JD no, it's all about the climb. [48:03] Justin: I don't understand. Please answer the question as I've asked it to you. Is it lame? [48:07] JD: I do not have any New Year's Resolutions. I live in the moment, the present. [48:14] Justin: Okay, you know, the lame game questions are fine, but I'm so curious. I'm so interested in so many things that you brought up. Dick and I just have some random questions I'd like to throw out there from time to time and just totally go rails. You like, obviously like music and you're into bands. You've been to some cool concerts and fought some people. [48:35] Dick Darien: My question is this same time too, by the way. They have. [48:39] Justin: Yeah, I know. That's fantastic. [48:40] Dick Darien: Yeah. [48:41] Justin: If. If the Retireholics started a band, who do you think would be the lead singer? And if it's not me, Brandon, can [48:52] Dick Darien: you please take away. See, I'm not going to go with the obvious. I'm going to say that it's about the voice and it's about the projection. I'm going to go with Justin. [49:03] Chad: How do you even know my voice sounds like. [49:06] Dick Darien: Just guessing. Because, like, guys, fantastic. It's like. It's like, what's her name? Oh, God. Who has. You know, sometimes someone with a great voice doesn't necessarily look like he, he or she has a great voice. [49:17] JD: So I want to know the answer to who he's thinking of. Go on, Mark. [49:22] Dick Darien: Sorry. [49:24] Justin: Oh, God. [49:25] JD: I think he looked. [49:25] Dick Darien: He was looking for Suzanne Boyle from the. There it is. That's what it is. [49:34] JD: Probably better left unanswered. [49:35] Chad: That's a good example, Mark. [49:38] JD: Ask him if it's. If he's lamer game for punching people when they sit in his chair at the concert. [49:43] Justin: That's actually what my next one was was lamer game, like fighting people for sitting in your seat instead of having a reasonable conversation and saying, excuse me, can you please get out of my seat? [49:52] Dick Darien: No, but I started with that. And I did tap him on the shoulder. I did start with I tapped him on the shoulder. I will tell you that, like, you know, you learn things right as you go. You know, you hit a guy, you get pull out of the stadium, knock them out, by the way, and then you spend seven hours outside the concert hearing, like, you know, the sound coming off the top of the stadium. So, you know, what are you learning? You said wait till after the concert to fight. [50:17] Justin: Huh? [50:18] Chad: Concert. I'm going to put that one up there. [50:19] Dick Darien: It's not fight. It's not don't fight. It's fight after the concert. [50:23] Justin: Well. [50:24] Chad: Oh, gosh, Matt. [50:25] Justin: Yeah. Appreciate the. The advice. And you know what they say? [50:31] Chad: You know what they say? [50:34] JD: That's his tagline, Dick. That's how he ends every One of his games with this. [50:39] Dick Darien: Oh, that's, that's a good one. [50:40] JD: He's a celebrity. He's a celebrity. You should see him at a 401k conference. People go nuts when they see Rob guy. [50:47] Chad: Real quick, Dick. [50:48] Dick Darien: I want to. [50:49] Chad: By the way, between you asking them to get out of your seat and you punching him. [50:54] Justin: Was it short? [50:57] Dick Darien: See that's, you know, that's the challenge. Justin. I was so like, you know, he was, it was game on and you know. Yes, I believe there was, you know, in today's tech terms a nano or picosecond, I believe was observed in between, you know, the ask and the pummeling. [51:14] JD: And you had like a paid for seat. [51:17] Dick Darien: I did. So me and my three burnout friends were sitting Giant Stadium on the infield, on the, on the grass or turf. And of course they didn't tell this guy to get out of my seat. He had his girlfriend with her and with. And she was the one who actually got up and. And bro, when I say I was. I lost to her by. I said it was 14 and one in fights. I lost to her, but she was a really big girl. So you have to go with the asterisk. [51:48] JD: Doug Dalzell is trying to get CBC points by putting a poem in the comment bar. I'm actually deducting points for that. I know what you're talking about because my daughter takes me to all kinds of these concerts. I told you earlier. And we will stand in line for like three hours to get in and then make our way up and make it to like, you know, the third row of all these people jammed in. And then some fucking idiot will come in like, you know, three hours later and claim like, oh yeah, I'm trying to get up here to my, my buddies, my friends, you know, I had a spot. I'm like, I've been here for three hours. I haven't seen you anywhere in the vicinity. And you stand right in front of me. We're going to blows even me. Yeah, I'm over it. [52:31] Dick Darien: That's where I saw you. [52:35] JD: Okay, let's. We got a little bit of time. Let's talk Pepsi. And I want to state for the record, I have a reputation of being a very anti pep. However, I also, I do and Chad will back this up. I do feel like for a large advisor shop that doesn't focus in the micro market, a pep could be an interesting concept and I think it could work well. So I'm not entirely against it. What I am against are we talking about PEPs again? Yes, we are. [53:10] Justin: Yeah, hold on. [53:11] JD: It's a big. Let's go straight to you, Dick. Are you pro pep? Are you anti pep? Is it going to change the world? What say you, Dick Darien? [53:21] Dick Darien: All right, so here's the advantage of being an M and a advisor. Like, it's like being an international arms dealer. You just sell the nukes and you don't, you don't really to both. That's the beauty of it. So anyway, ouch. That has nothing to do with this. I just love saying it because I feel like, like James Bond. But you know, you look with Pepsi, every one of these large firms that you know about out there, from captrust to Sageview to Hub Newsflash, they're all going to come out with PEPs as they should. Yeah, that's happening. I can tell you that fo show. So the next thing is Will, are they passionate? Are they behind it? They're not sure. They're, you know, Aon's coming out with a giant pep, you know, and Aon saying, yeah, large clients are look, are saying, yeah, we can do this. So we'll see. I don't think it's going to change. Jd. You get back to the is there. At the end of the day, we're a long way away from complete tech and service doesn't count and it's just not. But we'll see. I think for some of this it's going to be compelling. The question is, will PEP solve the issue of cost and simplicity? [54:33] JD: Well, I think it might from the perspective of a large national advisor shop. I think from the perspective of a small client, probably not. And then Chad put up the why question and Chad began to those large shops is whose Dick is talking about. The reason for them is like, okay, let's create something that's efficient, cookie cutter that works in the small space. Like I don't have really any major issue with that. But let me ask you this, Dick. When the government when got together and created this little PEP thing, this regulation, wasn't it to close the retirement gap? Isn't this all created to help new small companies get into retirement plans? And when you say that the hubs and the Cap Trust and the big for the one digitals are going to create a pep, is it to go after startup plans and help small companies get their first plan in place? [55:40] Dick Darien: Yeah, I think it'll be, it's for them, it's going to be an option they'll offer to almost anybody. So, you know, for Example when captrust acquires a business, I worked with a firm out of Lakeside wealth out of Indiana and they had a great business but they had 50 really small plans. So what Captra says, yeah, we're going to build this thing where you just take those 50. The longer your plans, we'll put them in our kind of house. Small plan product become a map. So but I don't think it's going to be their drive like all those firms jd it's not going to be their primary mission. It's just going to be an option and they're going to want to know they have it in case it takes off. [56:26] JD: But again, you just talked about, I think like Nevin talks about just being an aggregator or just moving the cheese, you're talking about 50 small plans. The reason why the PEPs were put in place is help new companies start new plans, not to go out and take over existing plants. Right, right. [56:44] Dick Darien: And those aggregators, not to say, look they are, I would say that the economics of that business is not right now in their, in their wheelhouse. Right, yeah, I would agree with that. [56:55] JD: And so I anyways, we'll move on. We don't need to get on the PEP soapbox. [56:59] Chad: Everyone's seen that my why question JD was more so the names that you've delivered and I'll go back, let's go Meryl, let's go Morgan and a few others that have created their own in house record keeping daily valve solution that their advisors are not selling a damn liquor point. And so that's where I hold up the why, which is if they launch this pep, I wonder how many of their advisors will actually jump into it and sell it versus saying hey, I need to be agnostic, this is my relationship, I'll position it. But I also want to position these other providers and their solutions as well. [57:33] JD: How difficult do you think is it to as a principal advisor run around and sell principal the record keeping solution? Because I think it can be a bit of a disadvantage and so I don't think people are understanding the human nature of a point of sale as much when they think about how successful a PEP might be. Well, I personally would love to go up against a PEP like that would be a much easier competitor to go up against than some other strong, you know, similar solution. That's what we're trying to sell anyways. [58:10] Dick Darien: You know, just a comment about these large firms. They're, they're going to, you know, think about the, you know, the iPad and you know, years ago, you'd go to the AT&T store. You get the phone and the service and the plan today, you buy the device and you're kind of the plan and the. It's. It's a less of an issue. So I would think these large aggregators are going to focus more on engaging the individual to look a lot more like an individual plant like plan. And they're going to provide benefits, voluntary wealth, everything for a small company. Oh, by the way, we also. Your K is there also. So I'd be thinking about it like that, which is much more of an Amazon strategy than it is what we think about. [58:59] JD: Yeah, fair enough. [59:00] Chad: I listened. The reason why I was texting Brooke to bring my phone in is because I had written a number of notes down from some of your prior speaking engagements and we don't have time for it now. But one of the topics I wanted to really get into you with, which is what you started to touch on there, is the why. Why do companies offer 401ks? Why do record keepers decide that they're going to offer that solution? Why are asset managers offering funds? Why are these aggregators wanting to bring all this together? The end result from, from the provider perspective is they're looking for money, right? Which Doug hit on earlier in the chat bar. From a, from a plan sponsor perspective. From a plan sponsor perspective, they're looking to check the box which someone just said in the chat bar. They want to offer something that is smart, that is simple, that is easy for them. That and for some in the small space like we're in, they're looking for tax efficiency. But the majority above the small space are saying we want a good competitive benefit that doesn't put us in trouble, that requires little operations from us that we can tell our folks we have this, as does Google. So come work for us. And so when I look at all the implementation of these services, the wellness side, what it's going to generate for these businesses, I wonder what the take rate will be from plan sponsors, if there's any additional work on their end for data sharing. So if there's no payroll integration is what I'm getting at. [1:00:32] Dick Darien: It's funny, like years ago, being a New York guy, for a lot of my life, I always talked about the reality of the plan sponsor, which is keep my inbox empty, keep me out of jail, make sure my boss thinks I'm doing a great job, and on a good day, you know, this is real. I'm not serious here. But some people look at it this way. Allow me to allow my participants to retire with dignity. So, you know, everybody's a. Everybody is a reluctant fiduciary who's on these committees or plans. And cost simplicity, you know, those are all big things. And look, that's not. There's still a focus on doing the right thing. And I just put a plan in for my group here and that's all about kind of making sure that we have benefits. But, you know, it's going to. So we'll see. I've seen some of the comments pop up here. I'm still not convinced PEPs are going to provide the kind of the advantages. But I do think it'll be a kind of inflection point spot where some of these firms can kind of corral plans and not have to do any of that. And the question is, will they dumb it down? What happened in payroll is that they dumbed it down and used technologies to change the game so that the cost became like $250 and the service became mediocre and people. And, you know, that's the thing. [1:02:04] Chad: It's scary. [1:02:05] Dick Darien: It is. And so that's what we're kind of fighting there. And I don't think, you know, you're seeing, you're even seeing some of that in a large market, but that doesn't have to happen. I think, you know, there's a lot of good things that can come with these programs. And I would say, you know, participants are still not. Getting everything they need. They're just not. And I think that if we get, if we simplify the administration and the plan docs and everything else, maybe we spend a lot more time on the individual and doing what they need and whether that's customized services, plan design, all those things. So we'll see. I'm not an expert, but I know what these large firms are thinking about. [1:02:52] JD: I'm a little bit worried in that I think most advisors and most people in this industry, especially if you're tuning into this show, you want the best for our industry. Right? Like you want our industry to succeed and do well. I think you also, beyond Chad's points of like making money, you really do want to make a difference and you want to provide value and move the needle for people and the employees and the plan and do good. Okay. And so I think as an industry, at least in my career, we're heading in that direction. We're doing better for our clients and we're doing better for their employees. So I would just challenge any advisor out there, and that's small, medium, or large, even these big shops don't chase the immediate dollar. Go after greed to get something right now and then sacrifice the entire industry for 10 or 15 years from now. And so my point is, if you head down this pet path and you head down this, you know, letting these record keepers monetize the employees, it's a slippery slope and we're going to end up in a spot that's going to be a disadvantage to everybody involved and we're going to do less good for the people in the first place that we set these plans up for. Right? We set them up for Tom, Mary, and Bob and. And now we're going to fuck that all up because we're all greedy bastards trying to make money. And so I say screw that. And that's when I get into these fights with advisors that are trying to do Pepsi, because I say do more for your clients, not less. It's bullshit. Who's your vote? Who's your vote for chat bar champion? Chad. [1:04:46] Chad: I wrote it down earlier. Sherry Fitz. The internal comment she did to the panelists, only [1:04:53] Justin: that pushed me over the ledge. [1:04:55] JD: Those count? [1:04:56] Chad: Oh, yes, those count. [1:05:02] Dick Darien: By the way, I'm in awe of the Ramones. Kind of usual suspects slide, especially Chad's belly, right? Yeah. Johnny Ramone. And you know, amazing Mark. [1:05:15] JD: Vote for Chad, bar champion. [1:05:21] Justin: Unlike you, jd, I appreciated the tan man's poem. [1:05:27] JD: Nice. [1:05:29] Justin: I vote for Doug. [1:05:31] JD: Doug Dalzell. Doug Dalzell, Justin McNeil, your vote for chat bar champion. [1:05:35] Chad: Gotta go, Sherry. I put it in the chat bar already. [1:05:37] JD: Two Sherry's, one Doug. Mr. Dick Darien, our distinguished guest. [1:05:44] Dick Darien: Yeah, I hate to, you know, there's, there's been some great ones, Greg, but I know Sherry and she's amazing and she's one of my favorites, so. And she found my little, you know, red glasses. So, you know, it got her that. That was. That. That was the clincher. So Sherry Fitz. [1:06:00] JD: Very well, Very good. I was going to go for Kate Clark again just because she really displayed a lot of hatred and anger and like, wanting to beat people up and just good old roughneck kind of stuff, which kind of struck a chord with me. But this week's champion is Sherry Fitz, your chat bar champion. The best bangs in 401k. Ms. Sherry Fitz. Dick, thanks for joining us. We're going to send you out with a little music that might be better than the Miley Cyrus we started with. And then we're going to stick around for a little after chat. So anyone wants to stick around, we'll dig deep into dick's brain without. With all these of those pressure of this. This serious show that we do here. [1:06:47] Dick Darien: I'm miss you guys. [1:06:49] Chad: You're so sweet. [1:06:51] JD: Do you have some terminal form of cancer or something? Or you. What's going on? [1:06:54] Dick Darien: I'm just gonna say after the pandemic, you know, block your doors. I'll be out there. [1:07:00] JD: Brandon, play that. Play this little ditty we got set up for him. [1:07:05] Dick Darien: I think that was like our best show. [1:07:08] JD: Chat a little bit after.