Collective Investment Trusts: $2T to $6T Growth

[0:02] JD: I like the. I like the Whopper up there. Retire Hollics is a Whopper. That's pretty solid. [0:07] Chad: Just don't tell Burger King. [0:10] Justin: I couldn't tell you the last time I had Burger King. [0:14] JD: Like a rodeo burger. You don't like a rodeo burger? [0:19] Chad: Not a Burger King. [0:20] JD: My kids go. I'll make. I'll make my kids go to Burger King just so we get rodeo burgers. [0:25] Justin: Well, no, I. I used to eat [0:26] Chad: them, like [0:30] Justin: all that. Like. [0:30] Mark: Yeah. [0:31] Justin: I just think it's weird that, like, it's not a place I ever think about anymore. [0:35] Chad: Are. And I'll drink for this. Our. Our CIT is to McDonald's as mutual fund is to Burger King. Burger King is kind of going down. I mean, McDonald's kicking the shit out of them, right? [0:49] JD: McDonald's is doing well. [0:51] Rob: I am sure. [0:53] Chad: I don't go to those places. I. You know, and I have three kids. I've never taken them to fast food restaurant. [0:59] Justin: That's such a lie. [1:01] Chad: Swear to God. [1:02] Justin: That's such a lie. [1:03] Chad: Oh, wait, wait, wait. I. I take that back. I would take them for what's a little ice cream that you'd get with the stuff in at McDonald's, like the Mc McFlurry flurry. Yes, but they've never had, like, hamburgers and French fries and a. In a prize at McDonald's. I didn't do that to my kids. [1:21] Justin: I do not believe you. [1:42] Rob: Is JD Gonna sing [1:45] Chad: the new intro? [1:46] JD: I guess. [1:54] Justin: I guess this is our new. I'm. I'm feeling some, like, new changes to our. I don't know, whatever you in the visual world call this. [2:04] Chad: I think that's more throwback to the old days. Brandy, really? Our shows and I make one for this week. Said sets off the town sometimes. Make us a new one. Make us a new one. So apparently he was in a country mode. Welcome, everybody, to another episode of Retire holics. You little 401k weirdos. You're here again. My name is Jay to the D. I'm with Nerdy Chad. Chad Johansen. Justin Silent J. McNeil. And drum roll, please. Put it up. Tap it up. Tapity tap, tapity tap. Tappity tap. Everybody's favorite retireholic guy. Here's the deal. I'm coming at you from a hotel room in Miami. Specifically Coral Gables. If anyone knows what that is in the Miami area. I'm out here visiting my son of Miami. And I am at the Ritz Carlton. Of course, I know most of you had guessed that [3:08] Rob: I'm Surprised? I called the Ritz. Carlson, [3:14] Chad: I want to apologize up front. Not like last time, but in all seriousness, I. I was at the pool with my wife and it was 2 o'. Clock, so I started drinking and I'm like. Because I'm used to prepping for the show, you know, I've been drinking a lot of vodka in my free time and. And I thought to myself, okay, it's two o'. Clock. Like, you know, I'll start drinking. Which is normally what I might do at home in Cali. But then I realized I was on the west coast and the show didn't start till 7:30. So in effect, I was drinking at 11am My normal prep time for the show. So things might get a little messy as we go along, but usually time [4:00] Justin: zones don't get along. [4:01] JD: How. [4:02] Justin: You don't understand how that works. [4:03] Mark: Yeah, neither do coast because he's on the West Coast. [4:07] Chad: What I. What I do not want to forget is the Wheel of Ice. So let's just be safe, shall we? [4:25] Mark: Have fun coaching soccer. [4:27] Rob: Mark, he's speaking of Wheel of Ice. [4:31] Justin: Really long time since I had to do this, so I can't complain. [4:35] Rob: I was in an event on Sunday and about three or four people came up to me saying, hey, dude, what did JD do? What did he have to apologize for? Did he piss someone off in the industry? Relax. No, that's what it was. [4:47] Chad: Yeah, well, I met. I ran into Maddie Hunter of First Eagle at a Lynsco Private Ledger event in La Costa and he said, I knew right away when I read that. That was just clickbait. Let's go straight to headlines, shall we? Headlines, Brandon, headlines. [5:18] Justin: Chad, your daughter's watching the show. [5:20] Mark: Yep. Really can't hear you though. Mark. She can't hear you. Phew. [5:24] Rob: Oh, thank goodness. [5:25] Chad: The good old people at Plan Advisor magazine have an article titled Guideline launches starter 401k retirement plan for Small Business. The new program, Starter, creatively named Kevin, will compete with the state backed individual retirement account programs according to Guideline. Do you all remember the state run the state, what's called the Starter K and the details around that. So what is that? Looks like a. Looks like an individual retirement account. They're capped out at like 6k or something, but it happens through your employer [6:02] Mark: and individual retired retirement account limits, but with some of the flexibilities of a 401k. There's loans in there, there's no testing, there's no company contributions. [6:15] JD: You know what? [6:16] Mark: Time out. I had this conversation with a client the other day that asked a certified public accountant that asked this question. There is still testing, guys, because you can still have eligibility rules, you can still create exclusions. You still have to make sure they're not exceeding limits. All of those things are still compliance tested. There's still requirements there. [6:36] Rob: But is a third party administrator doing that or is it the record keepers? [6:41] Chad: Well, so this is a record keeping solution. But they clearly say this chat and I don't want to get in the weeds of like a company's responsibility to their employees because obviously you have to like pay them properly and do certain things properly. But guidelines is right here. Or this article says guidelines offering is exempt from Internal Revenue Service non discrimination testing. [7:03] Justin: I have to imagine it's just the testing of the average deferral percentage testing. That's the biggest one. [7:09] Mark: That's the non discrimination right. Limits testing is not considered non discrimination testing. [7:15] Chad: You're right, Chad. I stand corrected. Then it goes on to say it has fewer compliance needs. Anyways, I'm not going to ask our guest Rob to comment on the starter plan from Guideline. Are you? Rob, are you familiar with Guideline and the success of Guideline at all? [7:31] JD: Not so much. [7:33] Chad: Okay. Well they've brought on about 40,000 plans in the last few years. But yeah, don't sweat it. [7:39] Mark: I don't, by the way, J.D. i don't, I don't fault them. I mean remember when we first read some of these changes to legislation, I came to you and I said I think we should specialize in this. We, we thought about it a decade ago with the simple 401k and now I think that there is a space in, in our industry for the starter 401k. I really do. [8:04] Chad: There's another thing to take note is they talk about later in the article that Guideline anticipates this being pretty easy for these clients to elevate or evolve to their regular 401k program. So it might not be. They're kind of giving it away. It's $39 per month and it's $4. Excuse me. Yeah, 39 per month as a base and $4 per month per active. So call it a 468 base and a $48 per year per active. So you know, 10 person company or just south of a thousand bucks or 950 or whatever. So it's pretty cheap. But you know, they can bring in a lot of these. It's a great marketing opportunity to kind of move them up to regular foreign kids as they kind of grow and mature a little bit. So I don't know, we'll see. But you're right, Chad. When we first talked about the starter and just remind everyone it comes out this year, right. It's, it's available next year, we had thought like will record keepers jump into this? And I thought for sure record keepers would offer a solution. And that's exactly what Guideline is. And then you're just bringing up another point. Well, maybe the TPA could too. [9:09] Mark: I honestly, I thought when, when we discussed who's going to roll something out quickly, it wasn't the record keeping space that does not have ass. It was the record keepers that have their own funds that they could shove into the program and garner some, some new assets and payroll. Right, Mark? So I was a little surprised to see Guideline be the one that pushes this out. [9:31] Chad: I think those are going to be some pretty small assets. I doubt they're. Those companies are super motivated on how [9:36] Mark: many you bring on. But yeah, it does have to have auto enroll. It does have to have some compliance related features. What do you think is going to happen when they set up a starter K with no non discrimination testing and they've. They flub how to auto enroll people and, and run the plan correctly? There's still going to be lawsuits, there's still going to be issues or people [9:55] Chad: put in too much. And you're right, there's, there's, it's not, we won't call them 402G limits. Right. But there's, there's something else. You got to stay under the 6k or whatever. I got a bunch of stuff to talk about, but let's first intro our guest, shall we? I'm going to kick it to you, Silent J. I'm sure you've done lots of homework. You've got something, tons of homework. [10:14] Rob: Yep. [10:15] Chad: I'm just gonna do this middle of us here. Who is, who is here? [10:20] Rob: I gotta, I'm just gonna take this now. [10:21] Mark: Okay. [10:23] Justin: But that's only for one. [10:25] Rob: No, that was at least two. I'll get more later. [10:28] Mark: Oh. [10:29] Rob: Anyways, someone who finally got the medal to dress in black. Today's guest hails from Washington, but joins us from the greater Boston area where he resides with his wife, seven kids, four husky, three piglets and one owl. To ensure he's helping advance in the industry, he participates in several organizations. Organizations like Spark Retireholics and soon to be Alcoholics Anonymous. He's the king of ESG. He's the CEO of the Bland Brown Sus Company, Mr. Rob Barnett. [10:52] Mark: Holy. I could barely keep up with that. [10:58] Chad: Yeah, I feel like Justin was like. [11:00] Rob: It was just helps right there. [11:02] Chad: Like that was like five acro sends. [11:05] Justin: I know. I only really understood two of them because he was slurring his speech already. [11:13] Chad: I don't tend to do this, but I'm actually super excited to have you here. So I kind of want to jump straight to some of the things that you spend your time thinking about. [11:22] Justin: The hell of an idea. Jd why don't we do that? Because that's the point of having a guest. [11:25] Mark: Yeah, it's a great idea because I'm [11:28] Chad: excited about this stuff. These shows help me learn and continue to dive a little deeper into things. And I hope the audience is going to come along for the educational ride here. I think we talk on this show to a lot of record keepers. We talk to mutual fund families, we talk to advisors, we talk to leaders of aggregators, these types of things. But trust companies or. Or custodians and Rob, can I ask you. Can I use those words interchangeably? Are that kind of the same thing? A custodian or trust company? [12:00] JD: It's really the other way around. Some trust company, the trust company is the trustee of the collective investment trust. So I'm going to try to remember to say versus the trustee. They are the custodian. So. [12:15] Chad: Okay. But the business model, when you refer to like I refer to different companies as custodians, like Matrix slash Broadridge now and. And Schwab and Mid Atlantic I think was bought by a company we had. We were on American Trust at their conference on their stage with. With Mr. Moody. These are. These are trust companies and custodians. I can use those words now? Yes, maybe. [12:40] JD: Yeah, you can because they are custodian, but they all have a trust company attached to them. So one way to think about it is they do have the ability to launch cites. Some of them do. Broadridge, Matrix. There we go. There was. [12:54] Chad: Always finish your thought. You can always finish your thought. Gray. Gray. And for if everyone's is not as smart as Rogue Guy. That is an owl is a leader in the collective trust market. That's going to get good when I get drunk with. With over. And I'm just pulling this from the website, but with over $144.5 billion in fund assets across funds managed by 70/sub advisors and maintains trading agreements with 40 platforms that access 200/record keepers. I get everything there except for the platforms. What are these platforms you speak of trading agreements with 40 platforms that access 200 plus record keepers. What are these platforms? [13:44] JD: Well, we're going to give shameless plugs to a bunch of people tonight, right? [13:48] Justin: Slurp it up, bleep it all out. [13:50] JD: So a platform is Broadridge Matrix of Broadridge Matrix clears for a number of independent record keepers. And so if you add those up, right, it gets it to those. Those kind of numbers. So that's what, that's what a platform is. [14:05] Chad: You are not. Who are your competitors? Are your competitors? Not this. Is this learning fun we're going on everybody. Okay, so come along with me. [14:15] Justin: Learning Fund. [14:16] Chad: Are your competitors Broadridge Matrix, Schwab Benefit Trust, Pershing Mid Atlantic or in the American Trust, or no? Are these. These are potentially strategic partners of yours at times, or are they both? What am I not picking up here? [14:30] JD: I think they're competitors and strategic partners in certain ways, right. So depending upon the platforms, all of them are open architecture, so they allow us to trade our collective investment trusts on their platform. And some of them may offer collective investment trusts as a solution to their platform as well. [14:49] Chad: So you could literally be. Be partnering with some of them at the same time, competing. You're starting to answer a bunch of questions I had later down the line because is another job you do at, at Great Gray is if. And I'm being funny here, but if. If the retireholics were going to start a collective investment trust and we had kind of a methodology picked out, we need to go to someone like you to execute our trades, right? Like to help us kind of build all the infrastructure underneath. And is that what. What Wilmington Trust, which is what you guys spun out of, that's what that company would do for like mutual fund companies as well. And I know you might think, like, how do these guys not know this stuff? Because I can tell you everything about record keeping and I can tell you everything about advisors and all and all the different fiduciary roles, but somehow in this, in our kind of micro and small market space, especially like south of 50 million, am I wrong, Chad, where the concept of the custodian or the trust company never really gets discussed or [15:55] Mark: talked about, very seldom. And it's usually who's ever the record keeper is attached to in that space. And that's it. It's not discussed. It's a byproduct of the record keeper that's chosen. [16:05] Chad: That's a great next question for Rob. So when you say 200 plus record keepers, when I look at Voya, Nationwide Empower, John Hancock, these like record keepers, they do their own Custodial work. And they have their own trust companies, right? [16:29] JD: A lot of them do. A lot of them do. And so but they're special purpose trust companies and they may, you know, they may only be doing light work on the plan so they can get a limited scope audit as opposed to having, you know, broader trust capabilities to do CI. There you go, CIT work. Right. There's acronym number two. [16:48] Chad: You could have had a check swing there. So is it your company's strategy to might a nationwide or avoidant? It's not to be a specific name, but someone like them, one of their peers, would they come to Great Gray just because they really want to get into the collect investment trust game, but they don't have those necessarily those skills or they don't have them in a great way and then so they would end up partnering with you guys as well or does that already happen? [17:19] JD: A lot of that already happened. So we've been partnered with a lot of those firms through for the last five or six years. I think. We first started building collective investment trusts that were platform specific for massmutual. Ultimately that was sold to Empower, but you know, we do it with Voya, Nationwide One America, a number of others. [17:41] Chad: This is an interesting business model, Chad, if you think about it here. He not only works with the record keepers but he also works with other custodians and he of the business is working with what I'll call the asset managers or even though it's not applicable in this case the mutual fund families. But yeah, the mutual fund families that want to create a collective investment trust. Kind of got your hand in a lot of of spaces here. I was going to say cookie jar, but that seemed evil so I didn't want to use that analogy. You just got your finger on a lot of things, Chad. Sorry, you had a question? I kind of talked about it. [18:24] Mark: Not really a question, just I think I'm piecing it together along with you. And in my mind the way I kind of see this spiderweb growing is that the collective investment trust placement is coming through Great Gray. So yes, the advisor that wants to create this collective investment trust wants it on different platforms. So they're going to go through Great Gray to get it out into all these platforms. So my initial thought was more of you as a custodian and now I'm thinking almost more as you as a distributor of the collective investment trust that people are trying to get out into the marketplace. [18:57] Chad: Talk about Rob, how you see distribution and how, how firm kind of helps with that or deals with that for. [19:04] JD: Yes. My compliance and legal teams will kill me if I don't say that first. We're the trustee and the fiduciary of the fund, so before we get to distribution or placing it on any platforms, you know, we have to go through a robust process of. Of doing all the. The fiduciary work to see if we want to launch a cit. [19:20] Chad: AKA you're not. You're not going to help us with the Retireholics collective investment trust. I understand. Thanks for this. [19:25] Mark: You got to see what Robe guys drunk stock picks are doing, though. I mean, the dude knows how to invest. [19:31] Chad: You gotta do your due diligence. But. But then kind of explain to us, like, it sounds like maybe it's a multifaceted role in terms of distribution and how you. [19:41] JD: It definitely is, but I. I can't wait to sit down with Robe guy and understand his investment process. So it won't take long. [19:47] Justin: You got. You got. You got. You got a couple minutes. [19:49] Mark: It's really simple. [19:53] JD: Anytime, anytime. Sit down. Want to learn about your. Well, I'll bring my investment people and they'll. They'll be. [19:58] Justin: No, no, no. [19:59] Chad: Don't. [19:59] Justin: Don't do that. Don't, don't do that. [20:00] JD: Yeah. [20:01] Chad: Oh, you should. He's flawless. Sorry. Tell us about distribution here. [20:06] JD: So on the distribution side, you know, since we're a fiduciary and these funds need to scale, we can. You know, we. We believe that we need to be part of the distribution process to ensure that the right outcome is coming for the end participants. Because if the funds don't scale, fees and expenses can be too. Too big. You know, you can see dispersion and performance. Right. So we want to make sure that that is part of this. Whether that's platform placement, whether that's, you know, working with advisors to educate advisors on cit is making sure that advisors understand what cit. That was a double take. [20:44] Chad: You can save them up. And when he says distribution to those. To the. What did you call them? The product ones, that's like you said earlier, Broadridge, like some of what I would perceive to be your competitors. But no, if you. If American Century creates a new collective investment trust and they're working with you to kind of create it, they need to be on those other custodians. Right? Like, they gotta be. So. [21:09] JD: Yeah, they do. So you. You want to be able to make sure that the collective investment trusts are on a broad set of platforms in order to be able to be available to all of you advisors. Right. And so our job is to make sure that we get the collective investment trust on various platforms, make sure we have the trading agreements, make sure we have solid relationships with those trading platforms, and then be able to articulate availability across the trading platforms to the advisors so that when they want to pick the retirehlett's collective investment trust, then we can say where that's available and make sure that your plans can trade. [21:46] Chad: I get so confused. This is because I started drinking at 2 in the afternoon. [21:50] Mark: Well, I'm. [21:51] Chad: No, that. That distribution makes sense to me, but now I'm going further with. But do you also do. Exactly, not exactly. Do you do the same kind of treat? Like if. Okay, I go to, you know, like and I'll drink for this. Or PCs. I used to go to them as an open architect record keeper. I'll drink independent record keeper and went. And I'd have a choice to choose my custodian. And I could choose Matrix or I could choose Mid Atlantic or I could choose Schwab. Will I now be able to choose Great Gray or. No, Great Gray's just working. Well, I know you're. If I wanted to use collective investment trust, would I also use. Great. No, my bad. You're only going to do collective investment trust, so you're not going to be trading mutual funds and shit. So now that makes perfect sense to me. You're working with those companies. Create the collective investing trust and yes, of course, get them out on Matrix, get them out on, on. On American Trust. Get them out where? Wherever. Schwab, everything. [22:51] JD: Yeah, we're the latter. So you're not going to come to. You're not going to look for a great, great collective investment trust. You're looking for a, you know, a blackrock collective investment trust. A, you know, MFS collective investment trust. This, the various sub advisors that we work through, Franklin Templeton and the like. What was it? [23:13] Rob: I don't know it. But hold on. [23:14] Chad: He said yeah, and it's the, it's the. [23:17] JD: No, I didn't say cit. I said. [23:24] Chad: And now I think I see your genius. If I want to get in this class collective investment trust game or hell, maybe I'm already in it and I'm doing pretty good. I got, I got a pretty solid collective and trust target. They fund rocking and rolling, but it's with one of your competitors who kind of does all things great. Gray could become the place where you, you guys specialize in this space of collective investment trust. And I may move my business to you, surely New ones that pop up. That one are going to consider you since you're a specialist in that. And you're no new kid on the block because you're spinoff from Wilmington now with you know, 150 billion and, and backed by fancy pants investors. Madison, whatever. I went to their site. It's all the companies in investing like so. So you're, you're trustworthy, Robey, Is that why they call it a trust? You're trustworthy? I just connected those two things. [24:21] Justin: I, I don't think that that's why. But go on trust company. [24:25] Chad: I. Am I getting the business model right, Rob? [24:28] JD: You're getting there. You're getting there. [24:29] Chad: I'm getting there. Chad, let's, let's dive into collective investment trust and kind of the growth like so let's see if Rob's on the right track. Yeah. You have a question? [24:45] Mark: Well, real quick because I posed it to Shorey's in the chat bar because for so many years I felt like I understood this concept and the benefit of creating a collective investment trust. But I never really understood how there was this fee compression and this thought that it's less expensive and cumbersome than others like a mutual fund for example. And Shories was saying, you know, there's no prospectus needed, there's, there's less filing requirements. So Rob, can you. Is that, Are you possible. Can you give me like a 30 second overview of why the growth of collective investment trusts and what's the ease of them versus alternatives? [25:25] JD: So a lot of the growth is attributed to the collective investment trust being able to be traded through. Do another one NSCC starting back in the early 2000s [25:39] Mark: and then I'll look that one up. Just so you know. National State Community College. Okay. [25:46] JD: So we started trading parity with mutual funds. But then, but really moved it along was legislation, you know, fee transparency and the like. So as remember back in the early 80s or the early 2000, it was free for one case. All you guys sold free for one case. Right. Rev Share put into the, into the, you know, into the share classes and you know, you got your 12 year one and there was, there were revenue share agreements and 401ks were free. [26:13] Chad: We have far more integrity than that, Rob. But yes, we understand what you're saying. [26:18] JD: But then came along, you know, 4 8B2 4485 with fee disclosure. And as people started to see that [26:26] Chad: these class of funds and everyone see underneath the hood. Yeah, yeah. [26:30] JD: And then everybody started to move to the R share classes and then CITs became much more. Much more interesting because, you know, active managers jump into that space. [26:44] Chad: Yeah, I have some. I can prove the growth here and then. And then follow up with you a little bit. Robin, let me go back to what Chad asked you. Because it is the lower cost, because that's how we are as human beings. And as advisors, we see like, okay, lower cost is attractive to us. But Chad's question was like, well, what's the difference? And so explain to us this less overhead that's involved when running a collective investment trust. Chad mentioned the prospectus, but it's a lot bigger than that. Right. There's a lot less oversight and things you have to do. [27:21] JD: Yeah, so there is. So here's what. Here's what it is, right? So, yes, we don't have a prospectus like a mutual fund with a collective investment trust, but the regulatory bodies are different. So we're governed by either the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency or a state regulator when the mutual funds are regulated by the securities and Exchange Commission. [27:43] Justin: Well done. [27:45] Chad: I literally said the acronym. [27:48] JD: So why exchange commission? Because of the. Because of the retail investor. So if you think about the retail investor, that is your lowest common denominator. So more disclosures to the retail investor, which means they're pulling all of that into it. And with collective investment trusts, what we have is state regulator or the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency. But then we use a disclosure agreement, a declaration of trust, and that's how we do all of our communication of fees, investment objectives and guidelines and the like to the plan sponsors. [28:28] Chad: Collective investment trusts, Chad, and everyone out there outside of the foreign K space could be sold and can be sold to accredited investors. Right. A certain sign of net worth kind of income. Not. Not this lowest denominator that you're talking about, or. No, you're shaking your head. No, they cannot. [28:46] JD: Collective investment trusts are only available to qualified retirement plans right now. So 401ks, 457 governmental plans, defined benefit plans, 403b soon. [29:00] Mark: Right, okay. [29:02] Chad: That's gonna bring up something we're working on. [29:04] JD: 403bs. So yeah. Right. [29:06] Chad: We'll get to that in a second. Okay, so my bad. So I was about to throw some numbers at you and I. I just jumped to the conclusion that these collect investment trusts were with individual, like deep pocket investors out there. But no, there's other things outside of form K. But in that same kind of vein, as an accredited investor, you are allowed to sell these to a retirement plan. Because a retirement plan is that kind of vibe, right? It's not some poor individual person working for a company. It's a bigger entity that you can count on making a proper fiduciary decision and vetting out that investment. I remember selling one of these to my client a long, long time ago and the paperwork was through the roof because it was really early on and I remember reading all that paperwork and that was all about, was like hey, you got to understand what you're getting into here because it doesn't have the same protections as, as a mutual fund. But, and I don't want to say that in a negative light now these things are, are very popular. Let's, let's talk about this. So total assets in collective investment trust. So this is not just 401k. So this is all those other areas that Rob just mentioned. And Rob, if you don't like some of these numbers, shout them out. But there was 2 trillion in 2012 and now in 2020, 23 were, 23 were are north of about 6 trillion or something. Something like that. I'm guessing. I thought. He nods in approval. Okay, now let's talk specifically 401k in 2021 there's oh total. In 401k in total there's 8, 8.25 trillion. Not, not collect investment trust, just total assets. But of those total assets of that 8 trillion, there's 2.7 trillion. We're in collective investment trust. So that's a pretty good chunk of market share and I'd imagine that's way up market. Am I wrong, Rob? Like that's got to be like the big, big plan. So they're very comfortable with them and have been for a while. You agree with that? [31:08] JD: It's a lot of the big plans but what we've seen is the aggregators, the independent advisors and even the wirehouses are starting to really adopt collective investment trusts and making a collective investment trust available in the same strategies that they are in mutual funds. So they're approving the strategy and then looking at the vehicles and choosing what vehicles to offer to their clients. [31:32] Chad: That's interesting. This kind of ties in the next stat I was going to give but let me go straight to, to a question. Are you. We are seeing a lot of the leading mutual fund families that have created successful target date funds in the retirement plan space because we all know that's the most successful mutual fund you can create for 401k. Right? Like you get a good target date suite going, you're getting a Lot more assets these days and some kick ass large cap growth fund for obvious reasons like we have huge defaults into these things. They're kind of the. Everyone thinks target day funds are what they should be using and the adoption has gone on through the roof. So when we see these companies, and I don't mean these ones specifically but American Century, Fidelity, T Row, whomever kind of leading vanguard leading this space in target day funds, have many of them already created their own collective investment trust version of that target day fund? [32:32] JD: I, I believe a lot of them do. I, I think all of the leading target gate providers have collective investment trusts available in the same strategy. [32:41] Chad: Right. And, and if they don't they're. Once they see these numbers they probably want to. There is a National Association Plan Advisors article from earlier this year and I'll read from it. It said consider that at the end of 2017, mutual fund based target date funds held 63% of target date fund assets compared to 37% of collective investment trust based products. So 63 to 37. At the start of 2023 this ratio has changed to 52% for mutual funds and 48% for collective investment trusts at the current rate of change. This is from again I'll say Napa at the current rate of change assets and collective investment trust target dates will top those in mutual fund target dates in 2023 calendar year. Rob, would you agree with a lot of those numbers and do you know has the national association of Planet Virus prediction come true? Have, have this the collective investment trust outpaced the mutual fund or. We don't know yet. Maybe. Huh. [33:56] JD: We don't know yet because I don't think 23 is over. [33:58] Justin: Right. [33:59] JD: So we'll, we'll have to wait till the end of the year and let's really run their stats and then maybe Brian can tell us whether we whether collective investment trust passed mutual funds or not. [34:07] Chad: What would your best guess be based on what I just told you, 52 to 48 by the start. It's going to be close. [34:14] JD: I guess it's going to be close. You got to imagine that it'll get [34:17] Chad: there, but inevitably you will get there. And I think to your previous point about the aggregators, they're going to have a lot of those $20 million plans, $10 million plans, $5 million plans and if this is what they do in their $100 million plans and they feel like it's the proper fiduciary decision for someone to. I looked at an article that showed me that I was going to ask you the difference in costs and I will. Let's see if I'm right on this. So they say it's a lower cost. Okay. And I know this is tough, but if we go apples to apples and I'm, and I'm an advisor trying to help my client and I've got a certain Target Date suite and I want to offer them another Target Date suite and the collective investment trust and let's pretend we're in a fantasy world and those are both like, same methodology, same fund company. There's no real difference. I'm trying to get the cost differential here, you know, which I know is you can't be perfect. Right. Because things can change. But what do we think the difference is? And I saw something that showed me that it could be anywhere from like 10 to 20 basis points. Do you think that that's accurate or. [35:29] JD: Well, I hope not in the index space. Right. That would just be too much of a. [35:33] Mark: There's not much margin. [35:34] JD: Yeah, there's not much margin. But you know, if you look at where the majority of targeted assets are, they keep migrating towards the index space. But you know, as you think about the bigger plans or the aggregators or the 338 providers. We really haven't talked about the 338 providers because they also have a lot of say in how this, all this plays out. Because when you look at the asset managers, they're looking at how to price business and they're thinking those 338 providers, maybe, maybe we'll give them a price break across their whole book because they have discretion, because they believe they can drive the assets in and a little [36:12] Chad: more, a few extra basis points based on their quantity. I saw you and Todd Kating hanging out in a LinkedIn post. It made me think of. We hadn't talked about that yet, you guys, there's. There's a manage account kind of Venn diagram here too. You know, similar to a target date fund where they might use obviously collective investment trust and then need great grades to help them kind of sort this out and get distribution on those platforms. Right. The managed accounts. [36:46] JD: One thing we've seen with managed accounts is income is easier to bring into managed accounts through a collective investment trust. So if you're thinking about your advisor managed account or even some of the platform managed accounts is think about how income evolves. Whether that's Income America or TIA Traditional or some of the others rapping, I [37:08] Chad: think you have to ring them up for that. That was a teacher yeah. [37:12] JD: Oh man, come. I don't know what, who knows what CS stands for? [37:18] Justin: Well, don't say it again. [37:19] Mark: Someone will throw it quickly. There we go. Greg says I do. [37:23] Chad: Let's save, manage accounts. We can talk about that a little bit later. So again, I know it's great to hear from the guests but one more time to Justin, to Mark and to Chad to chime in, help everyone understand in the. You guys play in that startup. 500,000, 2 million, 10 million, $20 million takeover space. But focus more on that kind of 1 to 5 million. Are you seeing these available? Do the record keepers allow for them? Yes, yes, yes. Let me know what you. [37:58] Mark: A lot of it, truthfully, a lot of what I'm seeing is broker dealer specific. And so you have some broker dealers, you also have some like One Digital that have pushed to have their own collective investment trust built out and put within these products. Like One Digital and Empower have a relationship where their collective investment trusts are available on the Power Empower chassis. So I'm seeing it not from the one off advisor and actually not from the record keeper, but more so from the broker dealer and some of the independent channels. [38:28] Chad: And let's confirm for the dumb surfer guy who started drinking it too. When, and I know maybe you, maybe One Digital is not a client of yours, Rob. Maybe it is. But when, when One Digital wants to create that collective investment trust, Chad, they gotta go to somebody like Rob, right, to build it. [38:46] Mark: I think so from what I'm learning tonight. [38:48] Chad: Yeah, what we've learned tonight. [38:50] JD: So I think there's two different ways about how all of this comes about. And so if you think about a One Digital. So we'll use One Digital over here on the, on that left hand side and we'll use how about Flex Path NFP here on the, on the right side. Nfp. Got another one. [39:13] Chad: Okay. [39:14] Mark: We might have to start drinking some of Rob's. [39:16] Chad: I don't know why those are left and right. They seem very similar to me but continue on. [39:20] JD: They're very different. So over here on the left hand side for One Digital, what we do is One Digital. There are one digital share classes and that's the same for a hub or for some of the other aggregators. So they're going to asset managers, asking them to create a one digital share class and then whoever is the collective investment trust provider for that particular fund, they create the share class. [39:49] Mark: They're just the share class. Meaning they're branding an already existing collective investment trust. [39:55] JD: Yes. So if it's The MFS large cap value. There you go, there's another one. [40:01] Mark: I get you, I, I can get you. [40:05] Chad: Okay, so okay, if it's their large [40:07] JD: cap value then there's a one digital share class if on the other side with. [40:13] Chad: Whereas Vince, Vince actually created his own freaking Flex Path thing and brought it to someone to. [40:20] JD: So flexpath is the sub advisor to the collective investment trust and as sub advisor they, they, they get to choose or make recommendations on which asset manager underlies the club, etc. [40:37] Chad: Yeah. Okay, this is, see here's what I want everyone to know listening in is there's this, I'm going to call it a messy little world. There's this like exciting little web of things happening underneath the, the veil or the curtain of what at least for me in this industry and I think a lot of my peers, we focus so much on record keepers and mutual funds and expense ratios and fiduciary process. We don't tend, at least, I don't tend to understand underneath all these kind of dealings that are happening. And it's fascinating to me like. Go ahead John. [41:12] Mark: I was just gonna say in, in my mind when I first started in this space and, and everything was about loaded and what share class could you get a plan down to, to, to going almost every provider being fully institutionalized lineups, it was larger plans, had institutionalized lineups and it was starting to bleed down into the smaller market. And that's the same thing I felt for collective investment trusts is I feel like when we're, when we're randomly involved in a 100 million dollar plan, these conversations come up and over the last five, six years I'm, I'm starting to see it in 5 million dollar plans, 4 million dollar plans, 3 million like this, this upper market we don't spend much time learning about. It is now down in the micro space you have these aggregators that are involved in that space and creating margin with build expenses and they're putting their collective investment trusts front and center to that client and saying you can't get this anywhere else. Now you're getting it down at the $1 million plan or the startup plan because you have us as the advisor partner on the program. It's, it's brand new, brand new to me meaning last three, four years. But I think we're going to see it more regularly moving forward. [42:24] Chad: Rob, can I put you on the hot seat real quick and then we'll play a game. When we talk about Flex Path and we talk about one digital CIT is I'VE had. Dang it. I've had a, I've had clients in both those scenarios. So as just as a third party administrator and I know I got a drink coming. I've had clients in both those scenarios where the advisor pitched both those solutions to the client and the client came to me and said, jd, is this okay? Like, is this on the up and up? Like, it seems a little weird that our advisor is pitching something to us that seems to be kind of proprietary in nature or homegrown? Like, is this a good decision or a bad decision? And in both scenarios, obviously, that would probably freak Rob out. I'm not a fiduciary, I'm not their counsel, I'm not an attorney. But I, you know, I, I looked at it and said, look, you know, they're a big company, they've done this or that. I think you're asking the right questions. I think you should ask more of them. But in the end, if you feel like it's a prudent choice and in the best interest of your participants, you're getting a cost savings or whatever, you know, it might be the right choice. But obviously I can't step in there. But my question to you is, is this the right direction for us as an industry? And, or do you think Schlichter and his peers are licking their chops with this? I'm not certain it was Schlichter that went after Flexpath and National Financial Partners. Maybe it was, I think it was one of his peers, but it doesn't matter. An attorney went after them for this very reason. They thought it sniffed, smelled a little funny, and, and reeked of conflict of interest. What, what say, Rob, on all this is, is, is it a conflict of interest? Is this the right direction for our industry, et cetera, et cetera? [44:13] JD: Wow, that's a lot to unpack. That was, that was rather. How many questions do you think were in there? [44:18] Chad: I think it's kind of warm. [44:21] Justin: Usually, Usually JD also gives you the answer within his question. So you just gotta go back and [44:27] Chad: really, it's in all serious, you know, all funny jokes aside, it's really, it's one question. Is it okay to do something like this Flex Pass and this one digital thing? [44:39] JD: So again, I think they're two different models. Two different models. So as you, as you think about the two different models, it's trying to understand what the value is that's being created. [44:51] Chad: Gnarlier one. The gnarlier one, Rob, would be the Flex path one. So let's Put that one on the chopping block then. So is that dangerous or not like is being done? And by the way, just because it's being sued doesn't mean it's, you know, anything wrong has been done. There's been no judgment or anything like that. [45:09] JD: Yeah. So I think in that model, the way I see that model is that there are multiple managers offered across each share class or each asset class. So it's diversified. So I'm not going to name manager names because there are acronyms in there. So I'm trying to learn my lessons. But in Large cap value there's large cap value 1, large cap value 2, large cap value 3. They have different price points because of the fees that were able to be negotiated with the various sub advisors and they have had changes in terms of the underlying sub advisors. So I don't know if that's any more proprietary than you know, an insurance company separate account program because it's very much similar. And you know there's, there's scale pricing all of those items. [46:00] Chad: This is why you're here. That to me was a Rob Barnett answer that you didn't dodge the question and you answered it super intelligently. I agree with what you just said there. I'm not ass kissing you here. Like you're right. If you were to compare it to other options, it's no less prudent than those options. There's a solid methodology behind it. It's clearly not some kind of play on proprietary stuff. It's, it's it. You can defend it. So yeah, fair enough, well done. I also, not as intelligently as you, I'd like to jump on the Vince G side of it too and say why is it that the mutual fund families get to have all the fun when it comes to creating investment options? Like who's to say in an innovative world that the financial advisors themselves, especially if they're bigger firms at scale and have the teams to do it, you know, the chief investment officers and the methodologies, why can they not get into that game too? When did we say that those were the rules, that only the big fidelities in the American centuries and the T rows and those people could do that. So God bless them for trying to do something different. I'm not trying to knock them down. [47:12] JD: So just focus on the Department of Labor's 2013 Phil Bulletin and we'll talk with you about when you're looking at target date funds, what a plan sponsor should think about when they are considering a target date suite and one of Them is a custom Target date suite. And that's where a lot of what Flexpath is was born from. [47:34] Chad: It was born from the RPA gamut methodology. Right. [47:42] JD: That 2013 Department of Labor Phil Bolton gave everybody an opportunity to really think differently. And so if, you know, we take the legal guide or the guidance that's put out there by our regulators, we can think about different ways to help advance our plan lineups and create better outcomes for. For the participants in the plans. [48:06] Chad: Very cool. Okay. I love this. [48:08] Mark: JD I'm surprised you could pass the RPAG flexpath conversation without acknowledging when we were sitting in that conference and all the investment companies were in the back of the room and they announced this product, and the ones that weren't part of a Flex path were not happy about spending $100,000 to be in that room. And. And the announcement of this, that's a [48:33] Chad: slightly different debate in that were they upset because of the money they pay to put everyone up at the Ritz and in Laguna Niguel, or were they upset because they were going to get only a tiny sliver or sleeve in this new flexpath product, or they weren't all involved or they weren't on it at all, or that of some combination of the both? I don't know. But you know what, Chad? In a sense, this is where I become a fan of events. And what they did is like, I don't give a. Those are large Fortune 5. Well, maybe they're not all Fortune 500 companies. These are big corporate entities that have been, you know, getting assets for years. And so to Rob's kind of more intelligent thing, if. If the world starts to change and. And we can see opportunities to create new kind of solutions, then I think we should. I think I might talk a little about that later. But let's play a game. It's the totally original, totally cool whatever. Tony, Tony, no one's selling their soul here. Sometimes I'm afraid. [49:49] Justin: Yourself. [49:50] Chad: Sometimes I'm afraid Vince is going to come and grab you by the neck at one of these conferences. All the shit talk I've done on this show. Okay, the way this works, Rob, is I'm just gonna bring up something from the general world, you know, pop culture, living life, whatever, and you're gonna tell us if you think it's dope. Thumbs up or. Nope, thumbs down. And then maybe a little description as to why. The first one I'm gonna give you is, you know, you're in the industry and you get interviewed for a magazine like the national association plan Advisors magazine like Chad recently was. And you get some quotes and they put your picture in the magazine and then a few weeks later they, they send you an email and it says, hey, would you like to buy this wood framed glass thing you can put up in your office to show everyone how cool you were when you got interviewed in this magazine? It only costs you $500. We'll make it for you and send it to you. Is this. Are you. Nope. Or dope on this, Rob. [50:51] JD: So is this a precursor? Am I going to get this from you? [50:56] Rob: I love that idea. [50:59] Mark: Yes. Still frame of Rob sitting on the show. That's so great. [51:04] Chad: Brandon. Brandon, take note how we can actually start making some money on the show. Okay. Sorry, Rob, go on. No, but it's not. But great idea. [51:13] JD: That's not to open. Nope. [51:15] Justin: No, no. [51:16] Chad: I don't think an explanation is needed. Although let's ask Chad because everybody. Chad texted me a few days ago. [51:25] Mark: It was in joking manner but in a serious nature at the same time. [51:31] Chad: Can I buy. Can I buy this thing and can we make it a company expense? What do you have to say for yourself? [51:38] Mark: So the way I wrote it is I said his office decor counted as. As an office expense in joking nature because I'm intending to buy it for myself. I think it's dope, dude. In 30 years from now, I want to look back and be like, yeah, we sat on the COVID of 401k specialists and. And I was. I was in these different mat. That's cool. [51:58] Chad: And my kids. [51:59] Mark: My kids Google search our name and they see our shows on YouTube and their friends are like, what? That stuff is awesome. [52:07] Justin: Do they. Do they see my. My IMDb? [52:10] Mark: Oh, mother. Nope. We've been through that. They do not see. [52:15] Chad: I don't even know that you're the one that feels that way because you're the only one of the four of us, or five of us, including Brandon, that actually has our cover blown up to some huge size on the wall in your. In your office. [52:28] Mark: So, yeah, we stole. We stole conference. [52:31] Rob: If there was an extra one, I'd have it too. That thing's pretty sick, man. [52:35] Mark: I disagree with you. It's dope. [52:38] Chad: Justin's dope on it. What do you say, Roby? [52:42] JD: Oh, God, I don't know. [52:45] Justin: I. I'm torn a little bit here. I think it. All right, here's what, here's what I'll say. It would be dope if it was actually something cool, but because what it actually is in Chad's Specific circumstance. [52:55] Rob: It's. [52:56] Mark: It's a nope for me. [52:57] Justin: But if it was like, you know, I don't know. [53:01] Mark: I don't know. [53:02] Justin: Magazines are lame anyways. [53:03] Rob: Who buys them? [53:04] Justin: So. [53:04] Chad: No, no, nobody does. Great, great. Chad, don't buy that thing. Come on, don't be a sucker. [53:13] Mark: I'm doing it. [53:14] Chad: All right, Rob, next one. This might one seem a little nerdy and maybe I'm way off with something here, but I've been on. I think we've all been on a lot of zooms, and I'm on zoom all the damn time. And no Bert, dope on someone on the zoom deciding to share screen without getting approval from anybody else. Like, all of a sudden someone's sharing their screen and they never asked, does this happen to you? Do you have any feelings about this? Nope. Or don't. [53:45] JD: That's a pretty solid risk there. What's on the screen? [53:48] Chad: Like, if you don't know, it's work related. But it's like, who said it was your turn? You know who said it was your turn? [53:56] JD: That's a nope. Gotta. Gotta talk through it. Gotta share what you're gonna share. Get consent. [54:02] Chad: I'm with you because, Chad, I just think I'll go to Justin first. Justin, what I think is if I want to show you a graph or I want to show you something I've been working. I gotta ask everybody first. Like, hey, can I share screen? [54:14] Rob: I mean, if it's work related, I'm just gonna say, hey, I'm gonna share my screen real quick and show you what's going on. [54:19] Chad: There you go. That's a compromise. [54:20] Rob: But if they're just. If they're just sharing, then yeah, like what? [54:24] JD: I don't know. I don't give a. [54:25] Chad: Imagine, Mark. Imagine there's six people on the call. [54:28] Justin: Or hey, hold on, I'm trying to share my screen right now. Shut up. [54:33] Chad: Imagine there's six or eight people and all of a sudden the screen goes up. I don't even know who shared the screen. I don't know who's showing me this. [54:42] Justin: Is this happened with our team? [54:44] Rob: Like, what happened? This is definitely personal. Is that a Brandon thing or Samara. [54:50] Chad: Whatever. [54:51] Rob: Brandon, what you do? [54:52] Justin: If it makes sense to share the screen, then good. But that person better be prepared. Like, pull it up. Go to what you got to get to. Don't be fumbling. I don't like it when someone shares their screen and then we see their email or their salesforce or their Amazon account. Like, you got to be ready to do it and do it properly. So no, kush. [55:12] Rob: No one was going to say. [55:14] Chad: You remember when, when these video chat things first came out for work? When someone wanted to share a screen, you had to like, give them permission if you were the host. [55:24] Mark: You can still set it that way. [55:26] Justin: Still do it that way. [55:26] Mark: Yeah. [55:27] Chad: It doesn't seem to be the default. He says. I'm just saying. Okay, this one's going to be personal for me, so I actually need everyone's advice on this. Okay. And I'm going to start with you, Rob, as we always do. And this is real. I'm here in Miami. It's. It's. [55:42] JD: We've. [55:42] Chad: It's duly noted. I've been drinking since 2. Going to a rooftop frat party when you're 52 years old at 10 o' clock tonight? No, for dope. [56:00] JD: Wouldn't 10 o' clock be pretty early? Would you be the first guy there? [56:06] Chad: Thanks for that advice. They did say like between 10 and 11. And you're right, Rob. I would show up at 10 and be like the only guy there. So good to fight. That helps me out. But I'm contemplating going to. I've been invited to a frat party tonight. Should I be going to this or not? I mean, I have visions of Will Ferrell asking everyone to run naked through the. What is it? [56:26] Rob: Quad. [56:27] Mark: Through the quad. [56:28] JD: Let's streak the quad. Are you hoping Snoop Dogg's there too? [56:31] Rob: Hey, if you bring a green hat, you can do whatever you want. [56:34] Chad: Honestly, Rob, what do you think here? I need your advice. [56:37] JD: I don't know, man. I gotta think. That's a no. That's tough, right? What if a client finds out? Oh, that's worse, right? [56:54] Mark: Well, it depends. [56:55] Rob: Is the client running with him? [56:56] Chad: Come on, Robbie. This is, this is so. [56:59] Justin: All right, Julie, because I. I can't answer. [57:02] Rob: I don't think they have enough time. [57:03] Justin: I can't answer this for myself. I can't answer this for a universe. I. I'm answering this for you specifically. I would say everybody up here on this screen right now wouldn't be able to make it through except for you. Like, you're the one guy who will be the. The entertaining guy of the party. People will talk to you. Like, I'm sure your son invited you for a reason. Most stuff to be like, no, my dad's not. Not cool. You're good, man. I think you go. Also, I, I despise your Instagram stories of, of concerts and all that, but you better have an off the rails instagram story tonight, following adventures. I want to see. I want to see keg stands. I want to see tops off you. Not anyone else, not girls, boys, just you. I want to see JD having the time of his life. [58:03] Chad: Well, I've been invited. Justin, are you okay with this? Because I'm going. [58:08] Rob: I was not at first, but you know, Marcus said it. If you're going balls of the walls like that, I absolutely applaud you and I'm all for it, but otherwise, if you're just going to sleep on a couch and do nothing. Fuck, no, no. [58:19] Chad: God. I know you're nervous about this, but no, believe it or not, some of the guys in the frat have watched our show before and they came to Tristan and they're like, you gotta, you gotta. Your dad's gotta come to the party, man. I immediately regret this decision. [58:36] Mark: Here is the moment you said it. JD, my mind went to. Your son is asking his 52 year old dad to come to a party with him at the college. He's going to like, of course you gotta go. There's very few others in this place, planet that would get that offer. I hope, I hope that one of my kids asked me to go to. [58:58] Justin: Exactly. [58:59] Mark: So, yeah, take notes, dude. [59:03] Chad: When. When Chad says, that would be really [59:05] Justin: asking everybody, what's your major? So what are you doing? Like, what, Pat, you study every day. [59:11] Rob: We're looking for an intern. [59:16] Justin: I was in Napa one time. [59:20] Rob: Do you want a career in financial services? [59:22] Chad: Let's. Let's move on to Chapar Champion, shall we? Let's see. Last week's winner was the sexiest legs in 401k. And Hackler, I'm assuming, will be at wealth at work in Washington, District Columbia. District of Columbia. [59:44] Rob: There you go. [59:46] Chad: And so we owe Hack and Kush prizes that we will deliver at. [59:51] Mark: Well, great to get. [59:53] Rob: I feel like we owe a lot of people. We never hear about it anymore. Did our accountant like, put the kibosh on that or. [1:00:00] Chad: Good on everyone. We're all square except for cushion, hat, roll square, and let's see. [1:00:10] Rob: You'll never get it. [1:00:11] Chad: No. Yeah. So let's, let's go to the votes. Let's go to the votes, shall we? Let's go the vote. So your vote for Chatbot champion, Chad Johansson. [1:00:19] Mark: Oh, you were gonna go to me first. This is a tough one because there's a lot of good, good comments tonight. I mean, I hate, especially because he just won, but I, I feel like I can't go hack. I feel like Hackler's Night was. Was good. [1:00:37] Rob: This was good. [1:00:38] Mark: It was good, but I'm not sure it was great. I'm not sure it was good. Yeah, I'm going hack. It was good. It was better than anybody else. [1:00:47] Chad: Back to back. Could be. That's okay. That's a comeback happening, right? Justin, your vote, by the way. [1:00:55] Justin: Hackler was late, so that's impressive. [1:00:57] Chad: Yeah, that's. [1:00:58] Mark: Yeah, that's like missing the first quarter, [1:01:00] Justin: but still putting up a triple double. [1:01:02] Chad: Even better. [1:01:03] Rob: I'm God. I got it. Sorry, Webby. You. You were solid with your corrected comment, but I gotta go Samson with the Roby looks puzzled comment. They gave me a giggle. [1:01:14] Justin: I was puzzled because JD says he's got all his fingers in a lot of things. And I said that's not how you say that. [1:01:20] Chad: Well, I said that's why I was puzzled. And then I said finger in a lot of things, which I think that's accurate. [1:01:28] Mark: Your finger in a lot. [1:01:28] Justin: That's why your son invited you tonight. [1:01:30] Mark: I think we should. I think we should move on from that comment. [1:01:34] JD: Fair enough. [1:01:35] Chad: Fair enough. When Chad's telling you move on, you know, you up, road guy. Your vote. [1:01:40] Justin: The one, the only Daniela. [1:01:44] Mark: She's not even here. Mark. [1:01:47] Justin: Greg Greenfield. [1:01:49] Rob: Whoa, he was good. [1:01:52] Mark: GG Was awesome. [1:01:53] Chad: All right, Rob, gotta pick someone from the audience that, you know, floated your boat today. [1:01:59] Mark: We forced you to get to an iPad. Could you see the chat bar, Rob? [1:02:03] JD: Yeah, I could. I kind of could see the chat bar, so. [1:02:06] Chad: Right behind him. [1:02:07] JD: It's. Yeah, I gotta kind of read it over. Over the top here. I don't know. Hackler's. Heckler's stuff is pretty good. Pretty solid. [1:02:16] Chad: Yeah. Okay, good. So, Hackler, I thought you're gonna be a wussy and vote for like. Do I have to drink for this? [1:02:22] Mark: For someone that. Yeah, someone that came from his crew. We've had that too many times. I'm proud of you, Rob. Thank you for that. [1:02:31] Chad: Oh, God, the vodka's getting worse and worse. Usually gets better. [1:02:34] Rob: He's got a back to back win. [1:02:36] Chad: Well, it's. It's still up for grabs. I'm also going to vote for Hack because. No, excuse me. I'm voting for Sampson because his well timed. When I said guideline, he just said, you know, just. It was a classic, but just well timed. Well timed. So I think we have three, right? We've got Hackler, Greg Greenfield, and Jim Sampson. And you know how this works. [1:03:04] Mark: I think that. I think that Gigi only got one vote. [1:03:07] Rob: Yeah, [1:03:10] Justin: he's not even here anymore. [1:03:11] Chad: No, no, no, no, no, no. This is not how this works anymore. Guys, where have you been? All three make the final. Rogue Guy now has to tell them what it is. He has to. They have to finish their sentence. [1:03:22] Rob: Oh, I thought it was always okay, okay, okay. [1:03:25] Chad: No, no, no, no, Roby. So we have three contenders for the prize, and they need to finish your sentence. Take it away. [1:03:33] Justin: Well, I got. I guess. Gotta be honest, Greg's not here anymore. [1:03:37] Mark: So we are just down to. [1:03:38] Chad: I got news for you. Don't put your money on Greg. [1:03:42] Justin: Okay. Great idea. [1:03:44] Mark: All right. [1:03:46] Justin: Okay. [1:03:47] Rob: Once again, I mean, right there. Might just win it. [1:03:51] Justin: Yeah, I gotta. [1:03:52] Mark: I gotta. I gotta be more prepared next time. [1:03:54] Justin: You know, I will say, last time Brandon said, have like a bunch of questions ready to go. I was like, that's a stupid idea. Okay, how about this? [1:04:01] Mark: If missed opportunity. [1:04:03] Justin: I'm just gonna say this is about me. If Rogue Guy decided tomorrow to replace the robe, what would he replace it with? [1:04:14] Chad: Okay. [1:04:14] JD: Okay. [1:04:16] Chad: All right, Rob, watch the answers coming in. And we're looking for just two. Samson and Hackler. Banana hammock. That's a leader. That's solid. That's solid. [1:04:32] Rob: Wait, but it was Samsonite who had that original comment. [1:04:36] Chad: Is it? [1:04:37] Mark: Yeah, originally, earlier in the show. [1:04:40] Rob: Yeah, Samson and I. Yeah, he had the comment about Hack being in a banana hammock. [1:04:44] Chad: That's so meta though. That's smart. That's like, that's strategy. He basically took his, you know, winning thing from him. [1:04:55] Justin: Okay, who are we waiting for? [1:04:57] Rob: We're waiting for Samson. [1:05:00] Mark: Samson fell in to ax comment. [1:05:03] Chad: I think he's screwed. I think that's going back to back here. Like, that was as Hackler called it on himself. That's some next level. That was my comment. Okay, I'm calling this one. I'm calling this one. It's a knockout. It's a K.O. ackler goes back to back. [1:05:23] JD: They came up with a kimono, though. Come on. [1:05:27] Chad: Well done, William Hackler. [1:05:29] Justin: I've done that before. I've done that before, Rob. [1:05:31] Rob: Yeah, for Sherry. That's right. [1:05:33] Chad: You're a multiple time champion. I believe you're even the owner of the one and only Brandon mug. You're just becoming, as Kushner puts it, you're becoming a legend. Let's see. We are going to be at wealth at work. So what's on? What's next for us? I was hanging out at La Costa, five minutes down from my house. I didn't realize, but there was a Lynsco Private ledger conference happening at the same time. And I was meeting with our buddy Kate Clark. Chad. And just having a beer. [1:06:08] Mark: Kate, my wife, she's a beast. She's so awesome. [1:06:12] Chad: I had Maddie Hunter come and sit down at the table with us and have a drink. And the waiter brought to me an old fashioned and said, this is courtesy of. And I thought, oh no, is there some hot chick at the bar trying to pick up on me again? And he brings it to me and he goes, this is courtesy of Mrs. Brandrup. And I'm like, what? Again, I have no idea where he is. He's. He's somewhere in the room and there he is at the bar with his wife. I got to meet him. I gotta talk to him. He bought me a drink, so. [1:06:48] Rob: Oh man, that is awesome. [1:06:50] Chad: That was really cool to see one of our retireholics family out in the wild and buy me a drink like that. And then Chad looks like Chad, you. You came in from a golf event recently and what happened? [1:07:04] Mark: Yeah, I finished on the 18th hole and there was one of our. We're in the after show now. So our DCIO partners that had brought Malort brought Malort for me to drink. Sitting on the 18th hole waiting for us to walk off the green and we all had shots of Malort waiting for us. He flew in and brought it from Chicago knowing I was going to be at the event and had it waiting for us. [1:07:28] Chad: I felt like waiting for you. [1:07:32] Rob: Right. [1:07:32] Chad: To do it. So anyways, point being, it's really cool to see some of you all out in the wild and of our little retirehogs family. So next on the agenda for us, we hope to meet new friends and see old ones at. In Washington, District of Columbia. Wealth at work. This pretty soon. It's like in a week or two, [1:07:55] Rob: two weeks 15 to 17, are we doing a show that we do. [1:08:00] Chad: So we'll see you there. The show's the next week, so that's our break week or whatever. [1:08:04] Rob: So anyways, it's the same week. [1:08:08] Mark: No, we. [1:08:08] Rob: Yeah. [1:08:09] Mark: Oh yeah. [1:08:09] Chad: When we come home that Thursday, we have a show. Yes. Okay, you guys, come on. All you have to do is come and drink some beer. Don't stress out. Thank you to everyone for tuning in. We love you. We'll see you next time. If we don't see it. Wealth at work. Thank you to Rob from Great Gray for doing this. It means a lot to me. You know, you run a professional company. It's serious stuff. So to jump on the show where we're drinking beer and saying things we shouldn't say. And we really appreciate it. You're a phenomenal guest. You have great insights and you are a much better guest than Dick Darien ever was. So, Rob, thank you so much for being on the show. [1:08:55] JD: Thank you, thank you, thank you. [1:08:58] Chad: I would say good luck to you and great gray, but that's silly. You guys are going to crush it. You don't need, you don't need some stupid surfer telling you good luck. You guys got it nailed down. So I, I will be a great fan watching from the sidelines to see where that 150 billion grows to. And, and I'm also an excited 401k or to to watch collective investment trust continue to make their mark on the 401k industry. So if you're an advisor out there and you haven't vetted this out and figured this out for your clients, it's time. You know, actually the time was a while ago. You need to get on this because it's happening. And with that, we are the retireholics. We're changing the retirement plan industry. By doing what Mark [1:09:44] Justin: Drinking lots of water, staying hydrated and a well balanced meal every day. [1:09:51] Chad: Play some music. Thanks, Rob.