Child IRAs & Gamification in 401(k)s with Chris Carosa

[0:10] JD: So dramatic. So dramatic. That intro is. [0:14] Chad: Hey, boys special. [0:15] JD: You guys. A little. You guys got a little hamburger? I got a hamburger. [0:20] Chad: I don't have a little one. [0:21] Mark: I got a hamburger. [0:24] Chad: I got a hamburger. [0:25] JD: Oh, yeah, look. Ketchup, mustard, pickles. Just standard. [0:30] Mark: It's so good. [0:32] Chad: So good. [0:32] Chris Carosa: Mustard hits your lips. [0:34] Chad: Mine's got. Mine has eggs and hash browns and bacon on it. It's delightful. [0:41] Mark: Where did you go? [0:43] Chad: I went to Habit. Wow. So good. [0:48] JD: I made mine myself on the stove top with little impossible, you know, save the animals, peace and love. Welcome, everybody, to another episode of Retire Hawks. My name is J.D. carlson. I'm here with Mark Johansen and smack smack Justin McNeil. And yeah, we're going to talk a little 401k today and have some fun. [1:18] Chad: Little. [1:19] JD: Little new alert. Just because I found this out like 20 minutes ago and it blew my mind. Nevin Adams and Fred Reich have their own freaking podcast. [1:35] Mark: You knew this, Mark, we talked about this. This is a couple of weeks ago that this came out. [1:40] JD: We talked about this. I must have been really wasting on that one. Oh, well, it's new for me. Today's like Christmas May for me. I was so excited about that. He's Chad Muted Fresh, Fresh and best perspectives with, you know, Nevin and Fred. So I'm really excited about it. You all should check it out. It's out there on Spotify. I'm pretty sure Nevin wrote that little. That little ditty of a title. It's got Nevin written all over it. But right now they're talking about Secure act and the fiduciary rule and I. I just can't wait to listen to it tonight before I go to sleep. We're going to play Chat Bar Champion today. That's in full effect. So, Chris, remember, you will have to vote someone into the semifinal, so pay attention to that chat bar and let us know by the end of the show who you think deserves the title based on their humor, their intelligence, their who knows what, whatever gets your fancy acro sin. That'll start now. If you say any acronym or initialism, you must drink from your penalty drink. I've got my wife's Woodford Reserve here. I might dive into that. I got a little vodka and vitamin C mixture. What's that called, Mark? It's like a chronatini or something. Like. It was like a Kronatini or something. [3:11] Mark: I'm not that fancy. [3:13] JD: We're gonna skip the little deep dive on the Secure act specific since we fucked it up so bad. Last week. I think we just need a little bit of break up. Setting up everyone for whatever. [3:24] Chris Carosa: Yeah, it's a burger. [3:29] JD: I got a. We'll have a special discussion in the after show about one of Chris's many books. Sky's written, you know, a shit ton of books. We'll talk a bit about that. But Hamburger Dreams, it's kind of like the where the hamburger came from or who's responsible for its invention. It's like a hamburger mystery. Why did you call it Chris? Why'd you call it a hamburger Dreams instead of hamburger mystery? Was that already a Hardy Boys title? [3:59] Chris Carosa: You know, I have to admit, if I would do it over again, I would call it the history of the hamburger, just so it's obvious to what people are getting. But hamburger dreams was a term that actually it was a phrase that I picked up somewhere and I can't even remember where. That just seemed like a good phrase. And when you talk about what the book is about, it's about the four origin stories. They all have these dreams that they were the first ones to invent the hamburger. [4:27] JD: I gotcha. So I gotcha. We'll be digging deep into. [4:31] Mark: Isn't tomorrow National Hamburger Day? [4:34] Chris Carosa: Tomorrow is National Hamburger Day. [4:36] Mark: Do you have any speaking. Do you have any speaking engagements, Chris? [4:42] Chris Carosa: Do I have any speaking engagements? Well, let's see. [4:45] JD: It says you do on your website [4:47] Chris Carosa: in just about an hour ago in Chicago, they asked me if I knew when the first egg was put on a hamburger. Tomorrow is all full with appointments, with interviews, as has been this week and really all through Monday on various places. My favorite one so far was a live video cast similar to this one with Chat Daddy in Chicago. This is a different Chicago one. The one today was wgn. But it's amazing how many questions people ask. How much are the same and how many are the. How many are really unique and different. [5:25] JD: This is going to be a lot like having Amanda on the show. Chris does a lot of talking. [5:30] Chad: Justin, we need to write a book about beer so that we can travel around and speak about beer and drink beer everywhere. [5:38] Chris Carosa: I had a classmate who actually wrote three books on beer drinking games. You would probably like them. [5:44] JD: Already been done, Chad. Justin, can you introduce our guest to our lovely audience? [5:51] Justin: Absolutely. We've got a banger of a guest for you today, folks. For the second time in retireholics history, to my knowledge, our guest has a Wikipedia page and it's bigger than Michael Kitces. We're not measuring anything here. Get your filthy minds out of the gutter. [6:07] Mark: Okay, we're keeping track, though. We're keeping track. [6:10] Justin: Yep. For all you athletes out there, he's a bit of a rubber band man. He's got a plethora of hobbies. He's been an adjunct lecturer, a scout leader, a church lecter. In high school, he played football, was a captain of the chess team, served as a concert master for the orchestra. He's an alum of Yale University, where he graduated with the bachelor's of science in physics and astronomy. Trying to understand the connection to our field there. But he was the GM of the Yale Bulldogs men's ice hockey team and also a popular dj sports broadcaster for the Damn it. [6:45] Mark: That's two Free. [6:46] Justin: College's radio station. Post Yale, he went to earn his BA Fuckers. [6:52] JD: For you. [6:53] Justin: In finance and marketing from the University of Rochester. Fast forward to today's accomplishment accomplishments. He's a national speaker, entrepreneur, mutual fund portfolio manager, among many other accolades. He's an award winning writer, most notably for his work, as we've already discussed it. Thanks for ruining it. JD Hamburger Dreams. How Classic Crime Solving Techniques Helped Crack the case of America's Greatest Culinary Masterpiece. Anyways, ladies and gentlemen, chief contributing editor for FiduciaryNews.com and the man who's written more books than Josh Itzo, Mr. Chris Carrosa. [7:28] JD: Wow. [7:31] Mark: I think Chris might be the most interesting man on the planet. [7:34] Justin: Or shower started to feel. Or get that Wikipedia paper. [7:38] Mark: I don't think we didn't. [7:39] Chris Carosa: Can I be in a commercial? [7:42] Mark: Yeah, for sure. [7:43] Chris Carosa: Most interesting man in the planet. [7:45] JD: I didn't have the vocabulary for it, but then Greenfield in the chat bar said he's a Renaissance man and hit the nail on the head like, holy cow. I'll back that up too, because I didn't do quite the research that Justin did. But as I prep for the show and I start digging through the Internet on Chris Carossa, it's like a fun little mystical Easter egg hunt. I mean, there is so much weird shit out there. He's been on like this radio show in this state and you go listen to it and I mean, it's just phenomenal. So if you have a free weekend, I say Google Chris Carosa and just see where it takes you. [8:24] Justin: Everybody, because Amazon bio. Did you read that, J.D. [8:28] JD: no. [8:29] Justin: That's a pretty good one too. [8:30] Chris Carosa: Good stuff. [8:30] JD: There's so much stuff out there. Chris, you're a busy man. We'll get into more of that, but let's. Let's skip all the semantics. Let's get straight to some 401k subject matter. You've written a couple articles, I've read them on gamification and we've touched on that subject on this show in the past, but just surface level. So I'm hoping today maybe we can get a little deeper and maybe put our finger on the pulse of gamification and 401ks and if it's actually come to fruition and we see some stuff out there or not. But one of the articles you read kind of laid it out there. Let me ask. I'll go straight to Mark and then I'll let Chris give the intelligent answer. [9:17] Mark: Mark, why not start there? Why? [9:21] JD: Why? Why gamification? Why do we want it? Why are you excited about it? Why do we need it? [9:28] Mark: Well, there's a couple of reasons why. Number one, we're just all competitive people at the end of the day. And competition breeds change and action and engagement and any other words that I can use that sounds sort of smart. And so that's one. That's one. Right. Obviously is that people want to win, they want to be better than the next person. So that helps that and that gets people going. And the other part is we're entering into Baby boomers are retiring and also maybe not surviving anymore. And then the next group of people coming up have grown up on these types of technology. Technology's been in the forefront, been in our face forever. So starting the gamification is going to get people involved at a, at a younger age and get, gain their interest and maybe keep their interest. So that's, that's my rationale. [10:37] JD: Solid, Mark. Chris, as you research for these articles, is that, is Mark on point and, or does the industry look at participation rates, the knowledge of participants and feel like we need better ways to reach them? I mean, you've done a lot of research. So gamification, what's it here to solve and is it solving it? [10:59] Chris Carosa: So I think Mark's on point. In fact, Mark, I'm turning everything over to you now. You have fiduciary news. It's all yours. There you go. You don't even need a free thing. [11:07] Mark: You couldn't even afford the premier membership. And now I run the joint. This is great. [11:13] Chris Carosa: See you guys. So gamification is everything that people talk about right now because it's cool, it's new, it's, it's where it's at and it's going to solve all the problems in the world. Right? Let me tell you something. Back in my day, gamification is already in the 401k infrastructure, if you remember. Well, maybe you don't, but IRAs were around pretty much the same time that 401ks were around. Although they were not really marketed the same way. Does that count as an acronym? [11:50] Chad: It does. Individual Retirement Account. [11:53] Chris Carosa: Oh, okay. I thought you meant 401k. Actually I was going to ask. Point of clarification. Is okay, an acronym or a word? [12:00] JD: It's a word. [12:01] Chad: It's a word. [12:02] JD: Good dar, but Brandon will ring you up for anything. So. [12:07] Chris Carosa: But IRAs started off a few years before 401s. IRAs. Where? Go ahead, you're going to ding me, but I got to get the point across. [12:15] JD: All right, you can Finish your thoughts. [12:17] Chris Carosa: IRAs were always there. But people, it's a record. [12:22] Justin: We're on pace. [12:23] Chris Carosa: People did not use them. 401ks came around and all of a sudden they hit off out of the park. Compared to IRAs, more savings. [12:31] Chad: Why? [12:32] JD: Chris, Chris, let me slow you down [12:34] Chad: here for a second. [12:36] Justin: You understand the point of the game. [12:37] JD: We play a game. You say acronyms, you have to drink from your penalty drink. You can finish your thought, but you need to try to not say the acronyms. That's of the game. [12:53] Chris Carosa: You realize I'm a contrarian, so well [12:58] JD: get you in a lot of trouble on this show. Let me ask. [13:03] Chris Carosa: Anyways, 401ks had gamification built in from day one and it's called matching. So you got bonus points for putting money in. So gamification really isn't new to 401ks, but gamification or gaming really has evolved because of video games where you have all these elements that people are aware of. Leaderboards, badges, boss fights, all these things can be utilized to encourage people to save more. And I think the most interesting thing I found out when I interviewed somebody who does this and went to school for like neurology or something like that is storytelling. Think about these games that you play now. They're not just games, they're complete movies. I mean literally you've got Hollywood types creating scripts and scenes for these things so they look like movies and they, they bring you into the game and you keep going. So if you can do the same thing with a 401k, maybe you can get people to start using them more. That's the theory. [14:03] JD: What, what percentage, what percentage of people? Because I'm an old 50 year old man now, I don't play games. What percentage of people out there can take a guess. I don't want Chad, because Chad's as old as I am, really. But, Justin, what percentage of people do you think play games on their phone or on their Xbox? [14:25] Chad: Age group. [14:26] Justin: Oh, dude, is that pretty high? Okay, this is going to surprise you. We actually. Some friends and I looked this up a little while back. Older women, like late 40s, early 50s, are the largest population of game players. Blew my mind. [14:44] JD: My wife's a Candy Crush expert. Well, so, J.D. [14:49] Mark: sorry, Justin, if you were going to go further there, I apologize. [14:52] Justin: I feel like I'll pick back up. [14:54] Mark: There's levels of gamification that I would say. I'm not focused just on, like, the gamers, Right? Yeah. On your laptop or on your phone or on PlayStation, what have you. Gamification, to me, boils down to simply competition, as I kind of mentioned earlier. [15:13] Chad: People. [15:14] Mark: Right. So sorry. [15:17] JD: No, you're right. I think that's good, Mark. It can be in two different areas, right? [15:21] Mark: There's a. There's an element of like a. A leaderboard. Right. Where people. Like, in golf, you kind of want to be at the top. You want to be Phil Mickelson, but in some other ways, if it's like a. It's the medium where you're accessing that game, I guess, is what I'm getting at. So it's a combination of both. It adds the element of people wanting to win. But also, where do you go play this game? [15:43] JD: I'll add an element to it, Mark. It could also be like, the fitness apps, like, when I'm on my peloton and I have streaks going, or, hey, you've gone 12 days in a row, or you beat your best record from last week. And I've talked about this on the show before. On my meditation app, I get little badges and awards when I do things. And albeit it's just virtual. I've told Brandon this. There's been times when I've gone to meditate and I didn't have my phone to log into the app, even though I know what the fricking do. And I'm like, oh, I can't meditate right now. I need to get my phone. So I get credit for it on my app. Like, it's totally got me in the whole little program, so there's that, too. But let's go to your leaderboard thing. Chris, you've done some research. Can you really have a leaderboard for a 401k? Can you sit at the office and look over at Jeff in the corner and go, there's Jeff. He's last on the leaderboard because he's so broke he doesn't even Defer into the 401k. [16:44] Chris Carosa: Ha ha. [16:44] JD: Screw you, Jeff. I mean how do you have leaderboards in this employer? [16:48] Mark: You can tell everybody that's me, it's fine. [16:51] Chris Carosa: So that's really the best way to do it is to have it a personal one on one competition. That seems to be what motivates people the most. But there's this thing called privacy that you have to deal with. And the way that some companies have done it is they put together, they put people into groups. So it's like this division has this percentage savings and that division is that, you know how you do that stuff in groups. It doesn't have to be a whole division. It could be like this office, this floor, whatever it is. And if you put people in groups, you can get over the privacy issue and still make it a little bit competitive. [17:25] JD: It's the warehouse versus sales versus marketing or something. [17:30] Mark: We call that cross tested gamification. [17:33] JD: Good Mark. [17:35] Chad: It doesn't always have to be about contribution too. Right. You can gamify who's got their beneficiary information loaded in, gamify who's logged in and taking action on the website. There's plenty that you can do to create and incentivize people to be involved in the plan without saying save more. [17:53] Chris Carosa: Well, it's engagement. It's like when you go on the social media platforms you get, there's this bar that says how much of your profile is completed. LinkedIn is like this, you know, hey, you got 95% of it. You just got one more thing to do and then you'll get it all. You won't win anything. But what the heck, they do this [18:10] JD: at the conferences, right? [18:11] Mark: I was just going to say that. [18:12] Chad: Yeah, yeah. [18:14] JD: So I'm sure a lot of people tuning in tonight have participated in the conference gamification where it's like go to a sponsors booth and you can go [18:22] Mark: do when, when we first were going to like, okay, this is a couple years back, when they started doing this more often, we were all about it. [18:30] Chad: Right. [18:31] Mark: But then what happened? The last few we went to were like, that shit is stupid. It's, we're done with it. So I feel like you can't just keep doing the same thing now. You've got to change that again to the point of gamification. You know, games don't stay the same over a long period of time. They come out with new ones. [18:50] Justin: You know, that's one of the biggest concerns. I feel sorry Chad is Yes, I think it's a great idea and it's, it will capture an audience initially because everyone wants that instant gratification. But it's a long term. I feel like this is kind of gimmicky for. I don't know if it's going to have a long term effect. And so I don't know if you guys feel similar. [19:10] JD: Chad, do you, don't you feel like I'd be treating you as a child if as your employer maybe I said to you, the sales team, hey, if you guys, I have this new gamification app for the 401k and if you go and learn about diversification, you'll get a little award or extra points and then if you go learn about, you know, saving amounts, you'll get some more. And if you bump up your deferrals each year, you'll get some more points. Aren't you going to kind of be like, I'm not fucking 10 you, you don't need to like. Or am I just being super pessimistic? [19:44] Chad: I think you're being super pessimistic and I think the behavioral finance and the studies can show you differently, that people want to be pushed, they want the incentive, they want the pat on the back. They're used to getting a trophy for participating. And so those kind of things lead to action. My question back JD to all of us was if we're going to gamify a specific process in the 401k arena, call it participation, call it increasing your deferrals, call it getting the full mat, whatever it is, where do you think we get the most bang for our buck as an industry in spending and technology that will create action. And I'm not saying roi, I'm saying bridging. Damn. Bridging the coverage gap, creating better outcomes. However you want to look at it, where should we be spending time to try to gamify and get people involved? [20:36] JD: It has to be impacting money going in, right? That's the biggest factor. So it's got to impact deferral rates, increases. [20:45] Chad: Is it, is it better to impact people participating or better to better to get more people participating or better to increase the deferral percentage of those that are. Where's the greater impact come if we're going to gamify something and create incentive? [21:01] Chris Carosa: I think participation is already being addressed with opt ins about about 60% people already going in. So I think if you, I think there's something that, a little bit what JD said, if you imagine it as a story if you're going through a story and there are certain steps that you got to go through in order to get to retirement or comfortable retirement, you could design a game that's totally personal. So it's not like you're pushing the person or patronizing in any way. Say, hey, there's a game that you could play. You don't even have to call it a game. You know, there's a template you could follow and it'll tell you, you're 28 years old, this is where you should be by the time you're 30. So if you want to get there, here's the way to do it. And it says you have now choices. You have to, you're going to go, are you going to take a right hand turn and meet the orcs or a left hand turn and fight the dragon? [21:49] Chad: That stuff exists minus the gamification side. Right. Like there's, there's metrics. You should, at age 30, you should have this one time your annual earnings. At age 40, you should have three times your annual earnings. There's, there's metrics to be hit. It's not gamified per se and it's not a story like you're saying. Chris was more. I wanted a target from you guys. I wanted to hear what you thought would lead to the greatest impact. [22:16] Chris Carosa: Well, I think the story will, so. [22:18] JD: Oh, how to do. [22:19] Chad: I was just saying I was looking for something. [22:20] JD: Yeah, I was saying where your focus had to be. And to answer your question, Chad, is it has to be the deposits. You know, how much money is going in. Are people saving enough? But I think that kind of skews us off a little bit. You know, who's killing it in this area or doing a lot I should say is all the financial wellness companies. So there are a couple steps ahead of 401k in terms of creating this story that Chris is talking about. And a lot of them have figured it out because they're trying to get participants to understand an emergency savings, understand having a proper budget, understand putting enough money into the 401k and so they can kind of lead them through this path of doing several of these things and checking them off and getting their awards for them. So wellness is somewhere to look. But let me ask you guys, you're on the front line. Is Voya doing this? Is principal doing this? Is nationwide doing this? Have you seen gamification at record keepers? Not in Chad's old school way. He was just talking about. [23:16] Chad: But I was just gonna say new [23:17] JD: fun stuff that's working because I don't. I'm not close enough to it, but I don't. [23:21] Chad: I mean, one it. I'm not seeing badges and awards like what we would quantify as gamification. But you see target goals to hit. You see replacement ratios. Is your dollar full at Voya? There are ways in which they're trying to create action by setting goals for you and seeing if you can achieve them. [23:46] Chris Carosa: Well, I think most of the people who are doing it are doing it with numbers. So it's like the typical retirement readiness calculator that just throws numbers at you and it's hard for people to get. Get their arms around the numbers. That's why I say forget the numbers. Make it a story. Make it something where the numbers are incidental. You know, I could give you an example of how something like this works. And this goes to behavioral finance. Most people will say, I need a million dollars to retire. So that's a huge number. Seven digits, huge number. Nobody will in their right mind is going to think that that's doable, especially when they're young. But we know when they're young, it's really easy. If they just put a little bit. They don't need to make a lot. They don't need to earn a lot off that every year. So instead of saying you need to have $1 million at the end, we say, okay, if you're saving, you know, 1000 or $2 or whatever you're saving, whatever you're saving, here's what you need to get in a return. To get that million dollars, you need a 3 or 4% return. Most people will understand 3 or 4% a year is totally doable. They won't know. They won't think the million dollars is doable, even though it translates to 3 or 4%. So a lot of it has to do with framing how you frame this thing. And that's where that's part of gamification, but it's also part of just framing. [25:01] JD: We can wrap this subject. We've got a lot to talk about. But I really do think keep your brain on stuff like the Peloton app and my Headspace app, because it dominates my life and I wouldn't even call myself a gamer. People getting their 10,000 steps or whatever that is. And instead of like what Chad's saying, you don't want to show up to your website and see a retirement readiness score of 38. That doesn't mean anything to you. And so we do need to go towards what Chris is Talking about you need to log in or get a notification on your phone that's saying, like, hey, you're still 80% incomplete in your 401k profile. And it kind of drags you down this fun path of getting things done. I don't know. We'll see. We'll keep checking in on it. Yes, Greg, the Peloton app is great and your chat bar game is great. Today, before we talk about the next subject, let's spin the old and unimproved, improved, but very full of integrity. Chad, Wheel of ice. [26:11] Chad: I know how to push JD's button. [26:18] JD: I don't want it to be me this time. [26:22] Justin: Indeed. [26:25] Chad: Right in the middle. I didn't know who it was gonna be. [26:27] JD: Come on. Double whammy. [26:29] Justin: Hit him. When was the last time we had one? [26:35] JD: It's been a while. [26:36] Mark: Who cares? [26:37] JD: It's been a while. Been a while. Let's see. Jd, go to your notes. [26:43] Chris Carosa: I have another question. Is JD considered an acronym? [26:48] Mark: No. [26:48] JD: You clearly never tune into our podcast. JD is a free pass. This is a good one. You've written a book on it. How many books have you written? Like 5, 6? [27:02] Chris Carosa: 5 if you don't count ebooks. [27:06] JD: 8. 8 books. [27:08] Chad: What if you do count many leather bound books? [27:11] JD: 10? [27:11] Chris Carosa: 11 in July. [27:12] Chad: My apartment smells of rich mahogany. [27:18] JD: Oh, God, I love brannon. That threw me off. That was phenomenal. The book titled From Cradle to Retirement. The Child Ira. Let's. Oh, yep. That'll ring me up for one. [27:33] Chris Carosa: Oh, wait, can I do two? Ira. [27:36] JD: Wow. Oh, man, this is interesting. And I'll get my drink. Audience. Hang on there. You made a statement and kind of. There's a lot of marketing out there. And by the way, there's even a website. Child ira.com, which is. Which is Chris's. But you made this. Oh, yep. You made this. The statement of if you could give $1,000 to a newborn baby and give them $1,000 each year into a child IRA until they were 19, I think it was. You would. What's that? Four? Three or four? That child would have $2.2 million at retirement or at age 70. You'll tell me what the rate of return you use to do that. 8%. [28:25] Chris Carosa: 8%. You're a bad investor. [28:29] JD: What a cool, great story. And I love the idea of. We've talked about getting kids involved in finance on this show a few times. I'm hugely passionate about this concept. I think we need to do more of it. The idea of getting money into a kid's Account and letting the power of compounding work is just so great. But can you really do that? I don't know. Individual retirement accounts check swing from anything. But I did a little googling some research. Is it still true that you've got to have this earned income and is that a problem to give it to the one year old, the two year old, the three year old or is that just a fantasy idea that you had? Chris? [29:12] Chris Carosa: No, that's actually a doable idea and I talk about it in the book how you can a newborn baby can earn income and it depends on the state. What do newborn babies do? They act in diaper commercials. Do they do that for free? No, they get paid. So a newborn baby can be an actor. [29:29] JD: You have to be a pretty baby. [29:31] Mark: Yeah, not a lot of them are. [29:33] Chris Carosa: I talk about that. It's interesting. I was doing research in that and it turns out that not everybody hits the pretty baby at the same age. So you're pretty up until age five and then bam, your career is over or you're not pretty until you're age five and that's when you start. But you don't really have to be pretty. There's different ways to do it. But that's pretty much the only kind of way for a very, very young child to be able to earn income. But once you get you know, first or second grade you can start putting that lemonade stand up or doing things stamping or putting stamps on your parents business. There's ways to make money. [30:09] JD: So maybe not so much. [30:11] Mark: Isn't that child labor? It isn't. In some ways that's not okay. [30:15] Chris Carosa: No, it's not okay. Unless it's your parents apparently. So there, I mean there's a whole chapter of the book on child labor laws because it's very relevant and it's always also state dependent. Depends on what state you live in. [30:28] Chad: Mark. [30:29] Mark: Yeah, Chad, the flyover states, they're okay with it. [30:33] Chad: Your kids are now going to be on the plan design website and we'll take some pictures of them so they have earned income. [30:40] Chris Carosa: Whoa. [30:40] Chad: Which will just keep your paycheck and put it in into there. [30:45] Chris Carosa: What exactly do I get? [30:47] Mark: Chad? Yeah, I have to have earned income for them to have earned income. Actually that's not making sense. [30:53] JD: Actually that's not so far off Chad. But so if they're zero to I don't know what the age is. My kids are all older now but five or something. Maybe not a lot of options unless they're modeling or doing Chad's Little workaround. But once they're five, six, and maybe I'm shooting too young here, but they can definitely start their own little business of pulling weeds at the neighbor's houses or selling their scribble art to people or God knows what and try to generate some income. And that's a great lesson in itself. Is that realistic? I'm trying to throw it out there. [31:35] Chris Carosa: That's realistic. I've interviewed these parents who have kids like this and I've interviewed kids who actually started off doing that. And everything you say is true. It's not just saving for retirement that helps. It's the entire financial literacy aspect of it, the entire entrepreneurial education that they get from starting their own businesses, that's all packed in there. But I'll tell you the bottom line is this. So few people do it that this whole child, I'm sorry, child Ira, that's the name of it. [32:07] JD: So you can say Individual Retirement Account, [32:10] Chris Carosa: but it's not called that. It's called. [32:12] JD: You're just being a stickler now. Come on. [32:16] Chris Carosa: Yes, J.D. that's what it's called, Mark. Anyways, if you're a teen, if you're a teen, it's a lot easier. And so that's why I wrote the second book, which is designed just for teenagers on how to do it, because it's more likely, you know, when you, by the time you turn to 13, you can start working, you can start earning money. [32:34] Mark: Chris, Chris, man. That you couldn't just make a two [32:38] JD: chapter book, you had to write two different books. I mean, come on, man, I like that. But let's talk, let's talk more evil plan. Like, okay, let's say that junior at age 7 isn't going to go out and mow everyone's lawns in the neighborhood and make a couple grand a year. But I'm going to be really evil now. It's like no one's watching this, right? But, but we could pretend that he's doing stuff, you know, I mean, JD [33:03] Chad: Go mow the lawn for Junior. [33:05] JD: Or maybe he does it once in a while and then you're just kind of. It's not like these kids are getting W2s or 1099s or anything. Like people are just keeping their own loose records, right? Or books on it. So why couldn't you fudge the system a little bit and go, yeah, Junior does have a frickin, you know, he does crayon drawings and the neighbors buy them for hundreds of dollars. He makes five grand a year and Put it in and start. I mean, who's gonna catch you? [33:34] Chris Carosa: Well, when I talk to accountants about this, these type of jobs, the legitimate jobs now. But it's the same question you're asking. Everything is predicated on keeping good records. So you have to keep good records, because if you ever do get audited, you have to prove that the child worked there. And the only way to prove it is through the records. Yeah. [33:54] JD: So. And then tell me this. I'm kind of setting you up for something I learned today. We'll see if it works. NFTs. Brandon Smart. [34:03] Mark: That counts. [34:04] JD: God damn it. What if Maya goes and mows a bunch of lawns and makes a thousand bucks? Don't you think she wants to, like, use that thousand bucks to buy whatever Maya wants to buy? How's she going to react when you tell her that you're putting it into an individual retirement account and she'll see it in 62 years? [34:25] Chris Carosa: So here's what a lot of parents do. Here's what a lot of parents do. They let the kids spend some or all the money, and then the parents put their money into it. It does not matter where the money comes from, as long as it's earned. You can put that money in there. [34:40] Mark: Well, it's gonna. I was gonna. That's actually a good sort of. I want to go segue, because we're gonna stay on this topic. But it's a good. Like a tandem piece to an article, Chris, that came out in April on your website about parents teaching, or the parents teaching their kids about budgeting and doing that. Right. That. That article that you wrote. And it's all. It was that same notion of, do you let them spend a little, save a little, give a little. You know, that kind of teaching of doing that, which I found to be very interesting. But I. Again, I think most kids presented that sum of money, they don't know the value of that $1,000. Feels. [35:26] Chad: Feels like they have no idea. [35:28] Mark: Donald Duck swimming in, you know, the money or whatever. Whatever the duck's name was, the greedy guy. But, yeah, I mean. So I think it also adds the element of the teaching component of value and saving and using that as a learning opportunity. [35:46] Chris Carosa: You know, you mentioned about the kid buying stuff from what they're earning. Think about what we just talked about. Gamification. If having a job is a game, the prize is whatever you can afford to buy as a result of having that job. So that's a motivator to get the kid to work and maybe continue working and Maybe make more money. [36:03] Mark: And the crazy part is, is that kids play video games for other kids to watch and they make money to do it. [36:10] Chad: Lots of money doing that. [36:12] Mark: This is nuts, man. [36:14] JD: Oh, but what I love about it, which is the obvious thing, which we've talked about my son's E Trade account in the past. I'm so excited that he's 17 now, I just had his birthday. But that my 17 year old son has money in a brokerage account and is learning about investing because when I was his age I was so far from that. And so to think about a six year old or a seven year old starting to build some wealth and we all know in this industry how much the power of compounding is going to mean when you start at 6 instead of starting at 26. Just amazing things can happen. And it's. To me it just sounds exciting. [37:02] Chad: See this, we talked about this a little bit in the past and I'll comment on one note in the chat bar and then I'll make the statement. Yeah, I think it was Brad that mentioned a few others. I match when the kids get birthday money. In other words, the kids get birthday money. I let them spend it, but I take what they actually got and I put it in their bank account to invest for them so they continue to get to spend it. But I look at it like if someone gave you money, let's leverage that money, let's put it into the account. That's my way of matching for the kids even though it's not going into an individual retirement account. But we chatted about this. [37:39] Mark: Nothing, Chad, that's. [37:40] Chad: This was my next point. Mark. Before we had this conversation, someone in the chat bar had mentioned some kids books. And I went on that night in drunken stupor after one of our episodes and I ordered like Finance 101 for kids and Shay, my daughter has started reading it and I told, I gamified it. I told her as she finishes it she's going to pick a company she wants to invest in which immediately was American Girl Dolls and that I would match what she wants to put in out of her bank account and that she would start investing in that. So she started reading the book. [38:16] Mark: I can't believe she didn't say Bitcoin. [38:19] JD: Well, it's so cool because that's just going to lead to at a certain point when she's in her teens, it's like, well how do we invest this and what does it mean to be diversified? Or like my son not diversified. And I just think that the I'm just such a fan of that stuff. So anyways, I'd love to see the advisor community continue to push employers and the participants of those employers to see, like, hey, can we get in front of the kids? What can we do to help the kids? Because, you know, it'd be great is if they all got this 2.2 million, or let's say even they just hit their 30s and they've got, like, a million bucks. They can all, like, take up cocaine as a habit and drive, like, fast. Just kidding. Just kidding. All right, let's play. Let's mix up and play a little game. We're going to go back to a new one and one of my favorites. One of these things is not like the other. Play this song out of my head if you can. One of these things is not like the others One of these things, things doesn't belong. Can you tell? Is not like the other by the [39:33] Mark: time I finish this song. [39:37] JD: Okay, Chris, you do not have a time limit. You can take your time. There's four images up there, and all you need to do is tell us which one of them does not belong with the others and then tell us why. What is your theory behind why it does not belong? [39:54] Chris Carosa: Well, I would say that. What is that, vegan? E. It's kind of. [40:01] JD: It's vegan. [40:01] Chris Carosa: Af. [40:02] JD: And I'll drink for that because that's vegan as. [40:05] Chris Carosa: Okay. And that one doesn't belong because that's the only person not wearing a tie. [40:14] Mark: Observation. Yeah. Holy Chris, you're. You're blowing my mind. [40:21] JD: Three hamburger lovers and a vegan. All right, two hamburger lovers. [40:25] Chris Carosa: Those are three. [40:26] JD: Justin, who's the guy in the striped pajamas? Did you know? [40:31] Justin: Hamburger. [40:32] Mark: Yeah. Hamburglar. [40:33] Chris Carosa: Yeah. [40:34] Mark: What does he say? Does he say, like, I'll gladly pay you? [40:39] Chris Carosa: That's wimpy. [40:40] JD: That's Wimpy. [40:42] Chris Carosa: Wimpy first said those words in 1933 [40:45] JD: with a hamburger Juicy. [40:49] Chris Carosa: All right, [40:51] JD: for a hamburger today. [40:54] Chris Carosa: Brandon, I hope this doesn't lead where I think it might lead to. [40:57] JD: That's what Brandon gets paid for, is to find Wimpy cartoons. All right, let's go to the next one. They get progressively harder. Oh, that was a setup. That was easy. [41:10] Chad: Oh, that had five. [41:12] JD: We got to get rid of Wimpy somehow. Oh, there we go. Thank you. [41:19] Mark: I have no idea. [41:20] Chad: I know audience. [41:23] JD: Don't forget audience. You can guess, too. You can. You can guess, too. Do you know who those. Most of those individuals are, Chris? [41:32] Chris Carosa: I know all but one. [41:34] JD: Oh, which one don't you know, I think the one in the middle, that's Mike Decento. [41:41] Chris Carosa: Okay? [41:42] JD: He works for. [41:44] Justin: Shit. [41:44] JD: What? Company he works for. [41:46] Chris Carosa: So he. He's obviously the one that doesn't belong, because I don't know him. [41:49] JD: No. Newport Group. Newport Group, Right. Yeah. Thank you, Danielle Moises. [41:55] Chad: All right, who is it who doesn't belong? [41:59] JD: Anyone in the audience get it? [42:04] Chad: Nope. I was. I was the only one that threw something in the chat. [42:06] Mark: Brad. [42:07] Chris Carosa: Brad. [42:07] Chad: Brad. Got it. [42:08] JD: Solid, Brad. Solid. [42:12] Chris Carosa: Really? [42:13] JD: All right. Why does an alien like Pep, Michael, Terrence Powers and aliens all love paps? J.D. not so much. Chris, you don't know aliens. [42:25] Mark: Chad, I hate it, but it doesn't. It doesn't override this. [42:28] Chris Carosa: But jd, is this one of those. I'm not saying it's aliens, but it's aliens sort of thing. [42:33] JD: Aliens are behind Paps. [42:35] Chris Carosa: They're. [42:36] JD: You see all those guys there? Terrence Powers, Mike and. And Pete. They are brainwashed by the aliens. It's the aliens that brought peps to our planet. But we can move on to the next one. Okay? We can't. [42:53] Chad: It doesn't over. [42:54] Mark: It doesn't override this background. So you hear the noises, but you don't see it. Yeah, you. You've rung up four of them. [43:00] JD: Okay. Damn. All right, we've got. [43:02] Chad: Good thing you're recording from home tonight. [43:08] Justin: This is a tough one. [43:10] Chad: Question mark. I think. I think I know it. Shame on you guys. [43:16] Chris Carosa: Jd. [43:17] Justin: Oh, no, I just want to. [43:20] JD: Before you guess, I just want to give my sincere apologies to Jimmy Carter. I was Googling an image of these presidents, and that one came up and I just couldn't stop laughing. [43:30] Chris Carosa: Jimmy Carter. I'm like, I've got to use it. [43:34] JD: Got to use it. Sorry, Jimmy. [43:38] Chris Carosa: I don't know. I would say Kennedy, because he's the only one without gray hair. I'm glad. [43:44] JD: These are getting harder. Last. Last time we did this, they got them all. Anyone out there? Don't show it yet. [43:48] Chad: There's. There's one that's right in the chat bar, but I don't think that's what you used. What did. [43:53] JD: What do you think it is? [43:56] Chad: You got to go back up the [43:58] Justin: Carter because we talk about Jason Grant's. [44:01] Chad: Yes. [44:01] Justin: Yeah, that's what I thought. Well, there's two that I'm thinking of [44:05] Chad: Kennedy, because the rest are alive, but I don't think that's where you and Brandon went. No, just the rest were not. Faithful. Faithful, yes. [44:14] Justin: That's exactly where I was going. [44:15] JD: Only ones are Republican Says Greg. Guts could have been good, too. Those all work. I was going with a different one. Go ahead, Brandon. [44:25] Chad: Yep. [44:27] JD: Faithful to his wife. The others, not so much. [44:29] Mark: All right. [44:30] Chris Carosa: All right. [44:31] JD: Works. By the way, Google faithful presidents. It's fun. Opens your eyes up to a lot of stuff. Lots of stuff. Well, that's good. I actually, Chris, I'm sorry that you. You didn't get two of them, but I kind of like the game better when you don't get it. It's a little more fun. [44:52] Chris Carosa: Oh, okay. [44:53] JD: See what everyone else feels, you know, Chris, Chris, one doesn't get my humor, and he doesn't understand my things like aliens, and he just looks at me and goes, oh, okay. [45:03] Chad: Okay. [45:04] JD: Well, whatever, buddy. [45:05] Chris Carosa: I mean, you didn't get my humor either, so what the heck? [45:08] JD: I love your humor. Last go to. Hopefully the boys did what I asked them to do. I sent an email to the guys [45:17] Chad: on Monday to buy a hamburger. [45:20] JD: I did that, and I said, hey, can you go to fiduciarynews.com and just find an article that you like and you'd like to talk about? Not you, Chris. You're the. You're the guest. [45:29] Chris Carosa: Oh, okay. [45:31] JD: So we'll go with Mark, since he nodded his head like he actually got the email. [45:35] Mark: Well, I got it. Okay. [45:39] Chris Carosa: Can I be. [45:39] Chad: No. [45:39] Mark: Can I be honest? I got the email. I read most of it. I saw that you attached some articles. I didn't read them immediately. And then Justin goes, yesterday. Yeah. [45:53] Chris Carosa: Did you. [45:53] JD: Did you do what JD Asked us to do? [45:55] Mark: I was like, what did. He asked us to do something? And he was like, yeah, he was. Have an article picked out. I'm like, okay, I didn't read that email. [46:03] Chris Carosa: Good enough. [46:03] Mark: But anyways, Chris, I went on to your website today, which, again, I already had a subscription to, didn't know my password, so I changed it. Then I realized, oh, now I've got an article that JD Sent me that I've got to read, and now you're asking me to sign up for a membership? And I was like, whoa, man, this is. This is getting intense. So, as of today, I'm a formal, basic member of your website, so I look forward to all the features and benefits that come with that. I hope you'll send me a free coupon code for Premier soon. Just, you know, because we're best. [46:40] Chris Carosa: You'll be invited each week to participate in the Fiduciary roundtable Wednesday at noon. [46:45] Mark: Perfect. Yeah. Plug, plug, plug, plug. Your stuff. But yes, J.D. i scoured the website, and I Quickly gathered that if you want to talk about pooled employer plans and multiple employer plans, there's plenty of stuff you could read on there. But I know that we've kind of gone over that at nauseum on the show and so something that I latched onto and by the way, I've already mentioned it so my homework was already checked off early episode but the specific articles titled and I'll. I'll just read it word for word so I don't get it wrong. 401k. 401k education teaching parents to teach their Children. And that is where that, that we have. That's a short title. I was. That's what got my attention. And that was again, more about the idea of getting kids involved with the finance piece of learning how to manage their money and, and some tips and tools. And again, as a parent of. I know all the audience members already know, but Chris doesn't. But a 7 year old and a 2 year old who I think obviously I'm learning quickly because I've always been from a very early age, the way kind of my parents were with me were like, you need to, you need to earn, you need to go out. So I would do those things. I would go across the street and knock on my neighbor's door. Now again, our neighborhood was very close and I would say, can I do anything for you? And they were, they were, you know, some of them were retired and they'd be like, yeah, pull my weeds. Or my dad's buddy would be like, yeah, just go move that pile of dirt from there to there. Which has really helped my career to this point. And so I earned money early on. I did kind of the paper route thing. I tried all those different things and I want to instill that in my kids. But I'm having a hard time deciding how and what tips to use when they do get money and birthday money. Because they are like most kids where they just want to buy stupid shit that they use for a day and then don't use anymore. And it drives me nuts. So again, that article to me was. Was helpful. [48:45] Chris Carosa: Do you want to know why I [48:46] Mark: wrote it for me? Because I asked you to. [48:49] Chris Carosa: I wrote it exactly for you. Actually. I wrote it. Well, let's see, your kids are probably too young, but if you were a Boy Scout leader, you might have an idea of why I wrote it. That is, in order to learn something, you have to teach it. So everybody was writing about financial literacy and how we had to do it and they were aiming it at Adults, you know, how many adults are going to say, oh yeah, I'll take a class on numbers, because numbers, yeah, I'll do it. Well, if you tell a parent, look, can you teach your kid something that'll make your kid better? Every parent will say yes. And that one of the things you could talk about is about money. Do you want your kid to be comfortable when they retire? Yeah, it'll make me sleep better as a parent knowing that. So, okay, teach your kid that. Well, if you're going to teach your kid, it means you're going to have to learn it. So it's a way to get, you know, both at the young kid level, financial literacy, but it also works at the adult level too for the parent. [49:47] JD: Daniela, nobody wants their kid to be worse. And that's why I agree with you there, Chris. I feel like, I think a lot of people would pass on financial literacy or even wanting to talk to them about wellness and their 401k, but if you use their kid as the Trojan horse, everybody wants their kid to have it better than they had it. There's something there. There's something there. Let me give a little plug to fiduciarynews.com before I scoot over to Justin and his article of choice. Fiduciarynews.com and I'm not just saying this because Chris is on the show. I actually said this on retireholics like 5 years ago in terms of, as one of my go to websites for information. I'm going to ask him in the after show how much time he spends on this sucker. But it is a no B website. [50:43] Chris Carosa: Both of them [50:45] JD: filled with much in the Chad Johansson way of design. Like it's jam packed but in a, in a good way with tons of articles and information and they're categorized and structured and so if, if you're going to, if you're a premier member apparently [51:02] Mark: if you're not, it's a little, it's [51:04] JD: a little different if you're going to Napa Net, if you're going to foreign K specialist mag, you should be going to. Okay, yeah, yeah. Damn it. Oh my God. You should be going to fiduciarynews.com so Chris, I'm kissing your ass right now but I mean this when I say this to everyone tuning in. It's a great place to dig into some 401k stuff. So Justin, tell me how much you enjoyed it and what you were able to dig up. [51:29] Justin: Well, kind of struggled with the same thing that Mark did. It was One of those did we talk about PEPS today or did we talk about PEPS today shit? So definitely nothing really to add to that right here. [51:50] JD: Are you suggesting that fiduciarynews.com is overwhelmed with MEPs and PEPs articles? [51:56] Justin: I am saying that this is so good. [52:01] Chris Carosa: I wrote those for JD because I knew he liked him so much. He wants to be one with the aliens. And, you know, this is the bridge. Communication bridge. [52:10] JD: I'm going to send you a little video later. Maybe we'll watch it in the after show and they'll explain. It'll clear up the alien things for you. I don't think it's all about pooled employer plans and multiple employer plans. He's got all kinds of different categories and areas there, so. [52:25] Chris Carosa: Well, it's a recency thing. I've written a lot about those recently because the law became effective this January. And I'll tell you, those are one of the most read articles on the site. All those articles. Last summer we had a conference on it, a virtual conference. Very, very popular. [52:44] Chad: So there's an audience for those because it's a buzzword. [52:48] JD: Have you noticed though, Chris, that there's the. We'll get to that later. Have you noticed that most of the people writing about it, talking about it and praising it are the people that are selling it? [53:04] Chad: Yep. [53:04] Chris Carosa: Isn't that true for almost everything? [53:07] JD: I don't. I don't think. I don't think that's true in 401k, like legislation, regulation. No, I don't think that's true at all. I think people get behind the things they think are right and I think work well. I think PEPS is a joke and I don't. Son of a bitch. [53:24] Chris Carosa: I'll say that if you, if you've gone back a few years when I was interviewing Phyllis Borsey about this subject, you'll see some of the negative comments, not because she was necessarily negative about at that point, they were called 401k MEPs. So, you know, it was. There were issues and there continue to be issues with them. As we brought the. Thank you. I was waiting. I'm thirsty. As we brought up the subject, in the various settings that we had, there remain issues. And the biggest issue that I see is the potential for return of bundling. If you remember 10 years ago, bundling was. Well, maybe 15 years ago. Bundling is what everybody did in the 401k world. And one of the first things that Fiduciary News did when it came out was it kind of tried to expose what the issues were with the conflicts of interest, the higher fees, that sort of thing. Well, we might come back to that era if we're not careful. [54:20] JD: That is a concern. [54:21] Chris Carosa: We could come back to there. [54:22] JD: Jason talks about it in the chat bar. You say bundling, he says conflicts of interest. Same, same. You know, it's like. And it's definitely going that way. And there's some that aren't well. [54:33] Chad: And that was my statement early on in these conversations. JD is my fear was the large record keepers that are going to roll out their own pooled employer plan would come out and try to push proprietary inside that program. The thought would be, hey, we've got 20,000 plans under $2 million in assets. Let's put them all on this pooled employer chassis and let's get more proprietary suites in there so that we can create greater revenue from the same amount of clients. I mean, that's common business practice, right? Generate revenue from the existing clients that you have. That's my biggest fear. [55:07] Chris Carosa: Yeah. [55:07] Chad: And that is a conflict of interest, in my opinion. [55:09] JD: It's been a while since I've jumped up on the pep soapbox, but what I've said in the past is that, oh, fun. Son of a bitch. Okay, I'm going to take some massive swing. [55:19] Chad: Hey, so. So my, my. I didn't. Sorry. Go ahead. If you have a statement to make. I was going to give a comment on the website. [55:25] JD: I was just going to say that [55:26] Mark: when he said that, I just thought of Brooks Koepka. [55:28] JD: I just felt like that was great. That was so good. Let's talk about that in the after show. I just felt like we were heading, Chris, in such a great direction as an industry. Like, we were starting to get to institutional share class of funds and revenue share was being exposed and kind of tampered down. And we were looking at independent record keepers with no proprietary requirements and fee disclosure regs and just heading down this beautiful path. And I feel like what you just said is very true is the pooled employer plans take us backwards to these bundled kind of conflicts of interest. And I'm a fan of capitalism and I understand what Chad's point of, hey, trying to make as much money per client as you can, but unfortunately that's how a lot of the industry sees these pooled employer plans is like, this is a shiny new mousetrap that now we have control over and we can package it in such a way that we can generate some revenue from this thing. And it's just a bummer it's not where we need to be heading. And so every time I see an article and an interview and a blah blah blah blah blah and I'm just like can we look for the better good of the industry instead of what you want to fucking sell for the next 12 months? Because it's cool. But shame on me. Chad, you did have an article or do you want me to just go to cbc? [56:55] Chad: No, I'll make a mention real quick because I kind of commented to it earlier and honestly I watched a movie late last night that tied to this, which is the movie. It was the end of the world. A meteor was coming and everybody was going to die. And essentially the our governments were trying to create our allow our civilization to continue on. And so they said anybody who's made a movie, bro. I don't remember it Mark. Anybody who is sick, anybody who you know had had illness, who was date Greenland. Yep. They wouldn't let him continue on. And so one of the con or one of the articles was is it better to increase participation, meaning the coverage gap or get those who are already participating to save more. And in my mind I kind of tied those two together saying well people who aren't participating, they're not going to stick with it. It's going to be hard to get those folks involved. So the people who are participating savings percentage. Holy Mark. No it wasn't. Allow me to make the point then maybe they would tie together. [58:04] Mark: That doesn't tie together at all. [58:05] JD: But love it when Chad cusses. [58:07] Chris Carosa: Well, let me tell you something that surprised me when I interviewed people a while ago. They don't need to save for the retirement. Some people don't need to save for the retirement. And I couldn't believe that. And this is actually the consensus. Most people say oh yeah, you've got to save for retirement. Well, I talked to a guy once who's had like $10,000 was all he was going to get from Social Security and he felt that he could live on that. And I did not believe him until he showed me how he had it all planted. And he wasn't doing this just like oh yeah, I could. Oh yeah, sure, no problem, I'll do it. He had it all planned out, you know, and he showed me where he's going to live, how he was going [58:43] JD: to live and it worked by the van by the river. [58:47] Chris Carosa: Well I won't say that but I mean it's not how everyone else would choose to live. But he was going in their eyes wide open. And I Think that there's a lot of people who are not necessarily that extreme, but they can probably get by and retire comfortably in a way that most of us would not believe. [59:07] JD: Fair enough. I see a. I don't want to give a bad rap to surfers, but there's a lot of dudes in the parking lot that I come in that I'm pretty sure are living in their car. [59:17] Chad: All right, let's start happier than the vast majority of the human population, right? [59:21] JD: They probably are. Probably are. Let's go to Chap, our champion. There's. It's been some good. Some good stuff tonight. I know I'm going to vote first because you guys keep stealing my votes every week. I'm going for the champ, the goat, the guy who should be winning this stuff a lot, but he gets pushed aside because, you know, we're. We're just. He's won so much. Greg Greenfield. You get my vote, buddy. You were bringing it tonight. A plus. Craig Greenfield. Justin, your vote, [1:00:01] Justin: Hackler. [1:00:02] JD: Whoa. There's a theme going on here. [1:00:05] Justin: Bringing it back to the. [1:00:07] JD: To the OGs. Mr. Mark Palmeni, aka Robe Guy. [1:00:12] Mark: Well, I know in the past we've kind of doubled up on the same person, and I was immediately going double G, but I want to gamify this chat bar champion competition, and I think Webby had a solid night, so I'm giving it to Webby. [1:00:26] JD: All right. What? Mike Webb. Mike Webb. Chadwick. [1:00:29] Chad: I'm going. Jason Knight was good, but primarily for the Chris weird shit Caruso comment, which I love. [1:00:38] Chris Carosa: Carrosa, you want to hear me sing? [1:00:43] JD: You get the final vote into the semifinals. Anyone you'd like to see there? [1:00:48] Chris Carosa: I like Daniela's comment about Justin has the deer in the headlights look. I thought that was very good. [1:00:56] Justin: I'm assuming it was the. The article. [1:00:58] Chris Carosa: Yes, and it was so true. [1:01:00] JD: So Daniela also did the. The definition of fear of. Of little soft balls. What are the things you're scared of? [1:01:10] Justin: Oh, cotton balls. [1:01:12] JD: She threw that in there. She did. [1:01:14] Mark: I didn't see that. I didn't see that. [1:01:16] JD: I was going to say, but she can only be in if Chris can pronounce her last name. [1:01:22] Chris Carosa: I don't even see her last name now. It's off the thing. Hold on. Let me go there. [1:01:26] JD: It's all right. I'll teach you how to pronounce it in the after show. [1:01:29] Chris Carosa: Moiseyev. Yeah. [1:01:32] Chad: Nice. [1:01:33] JD: You need to be a little more accent. [1:01:39] Chad: The way you move your mouth during that is terrifying. [1:01:42] JD: No way. Oh, this is a tight race. [1:01:44] Chad: This Is a tight race. [1:01:45] Mark: Okay? [1:01:46] JD: The votes are coming in. People vote. Vote. People vote. Oh, wow. [1:01:52] Chad: This. Yeah, this is like an all star game to see who can come out on time. [1:01:58] JD: I can't see what percentage we're at, but thank you. [1:02:01] Chad: I must admit. All right, Jason nominated you. I voted for Gigi. [1:02:05] JD: Got it. She got it. She got it. Let's share those results. [1:02:08] Chad: Daniela pulled it out. Wow. [1:02:11] JD: Way to go, Daniela. You're you're she a two time or a three time? [1:02:17] Chad: That could be four times. No, I think that's four. [1:02:20] Mark: She said. [1:02:21] Chad: Oh, geez. [1:02:22] JD: Daniela, I'm hammered on half of these shows. [1:02:27] Mark: Brandon, not to add more work to your massive workload for these damn shows, but behind us we need to have rafters with like championship, like, like jerseys. She, Danielle's got to be up there like hall of fame worthy. Just drop the mic. [1:02:45] Chad: Yeah. [1:02:45] JD: Brandon is looking to change the background. I've been telling him no, I want to keep it for a little while, but we've done it for a bit so we probably are going to be shifting to something. In typical retireholics fashion, we'll be moving on to a new background. Oh, Bryant's like, don't remove my poster. Brian's back there in the back left there's Daniela's chat bar champion. Winner certificates already been created and emailed to her. That's how fucking quick we are around here. Brandon and I have found a new band that we've fallen in love with. They're bringing back core punk rock. I think Brandon was able to brands and having an issue with YouTube. They don't like it when we pull down their videos. But I think he somehow cyber hacked them and figured it out. So let's play a song to close us out from the Linda Linda's. I'm really making it bad if he can't do it. And we got some fun stuff to talk about in the after show. Thank you everyone for tuning in. We appreciate it. Chris, thank you for being our guest. You are a true 401k Pro and the industry thanks you for all the effort that you put into everything that you do and we were stoked to have you here today and so thanks for being part of it. We appreciate it. [1:04:06] Chris Carosa: Thanks for having me. [1:04:07] Mark: Thank you. Chris. [1:04:08] JD: Play that music if you can, Brandon.