Cash Balance Plans & State-Sponsored 401(k)s

[0:00] JD: Again. Yeah, let me, let me. Before we start the show. Don't start the show yet, Brian. Let's start a little late here, but I'm gonna read for everyone an email from one of our employees that came in over the weekend and he's our. He's our conversion person and I thought that we were gonna lose him like that he was leaving for some reason. He wrote. This is to the entire plan design consultants team. He wrote. Hello fellow PD series. Apologies for interrupting what I hope is a pleasant and relaxing evening. As I thought I should blast this out to give everyone a heads up that beginning tomorrow I will be taking a leave of absence for an undetermined period of time as the owner of the company. My heart sunk right at that moment and I'm like, I'm thinking Chad's going to call me any second. Be like how the fuck are we going to convert all these plans? Like what's going on? So I'm scared. I continue reading next sentence. The reason being I just came back from seeing the Barbie movie with my daughter and I will be flying out tomorrow to the backwoods of Tennessee to attend a rehabilitation detoxification boot camp. The brochure promises daily shock therapy treatment as part of the extracurricular activities on the path to wellness. The photo suggests something to do with battery charge type clamps on various parts of human anatomy, which seems quite soothing compared to the two hours worth of sensory deprivation I just experienced. So I'm hopeful that sooner than later I will return to what once I knew was a reggae was really. Nevermind that part. And then he goes, thank you in advance for your support and stay pink. Oh gosh. I mean, keep it real. And anyways, I thought that was hilarious. That's the type of people I like working for us, Chad. Right? That's who you want. [2:09] Chad: It. It scared Devin too. Devin called me at 10, 10:15 when that hit his inbox and he's like, have you, have you read the email yet? Lance is leaving. He was freaking out. You haven't been here long enough to know Lance's candor. [2:25] JD: Chat bar. Everyone that's here, thank you for attending another retireholics. I've made a commitment to myself into this show. We're going to start treating you better. We're going to start paying more attention to you and appreciating the relationship that the retireaholics have with the chat bar. With that I had chat GPT. I mean, I wrote a poem about our relationship, damn it. And I'd like to read it. For y' all today, from the bottom of my heart in the podcast realm a love did ignite Retireholics in the chat bar on a Thursday night A bond unbreakable an obsession so sweet in the virtual world where hearts truly meet Retireholics speak wisdom they share their audience the chat bar always there Funny comments, laughter in the air A love story unfolds beyond compare the retireholics tongue down the chat bar's throat but the love is so strong neither one of them choke 4 and k obsession A connection so rare tonight I can feel it Love is in the air. [3:58] Chad: Wow. I think you need to let Chat write that more often for you. [4:02] JD: Love everyone out there. Love everyone out there. [4:04] Chad: There. [4:06] Justin: Did Chad really chat, really wrote that? [4:08] JD: I made some adjustments. [4:10] Justin: Chat, I thought so. [4:12] Speaker D: Chat. [4:12] JD: I made some adjustments. I'd like to go first to Aaron Schum on Twitter if we could. He recently put out a tweet, complaining. [4:22] Mark: Wait, hold on. It's not Twitter. [4:24] Chad: It's not Twitter. [4:25] JD: Well, I also thought we could discuss Twitter guy. Hence the graphic. Sorry, X. How do you feel about Twitter now being X? Rogue guy. [4:35] Justin: Stupid. [4:38] Mark: I will say the, the. The. That app button or whatever is way cooler, but it's. It's a dumb name. [4:49] JD: Yeah, I like the little bird. That was cool. [4:52] Mark: No, the X. The X is cooler than the bird. [4:54] JD: Okay, fair enough. [4:56] Chad: But Mark's got X gonna bring it to you in his head when he said it too. [5:00] JD: On Aaron Shins X account, he writes, I'm so over this hashtag hybrid work world. Repeating the same update 10 times and quick one off convos rather than a five minute huddle in the office is widely inefficient. I'm excited for our. What is that? Like, back to the office, return to office. And I was, I was thinking, and I commented pretty quickly after, I'm like, you can't huddle. You can't have a five minute huddle online. Like, what's the point? And he wrote back and he goes, sure, but that's not efficient in reality. It'll take 10 minutes. Like, schedule that with everyone. I'm just thinking, like, you need better technology, bro. I thought. [5:47] Mark: No, no, no, no. I, I see, I see Aaron's point here. Okay, so think of that like if, if, if we were all still in the office. JD and again, when you're, when you're the chief executive officer and the owner of the company and you go around, you're like, hey, hey, guys. Yeah, we're all like, whatever we're doing, it gets dropped or in there. But if you're like, if you text us and you're like, hey, guys, jump onto Zoom for five minutes. You know, Justin might be down the street getting some. Some lunch. Chad's probably mowing his lawn in the backyard. I'm probably asleep. So it's like, yeah, it's gonna take way longer than. Than 10 minutes to get people into a fight and me. [6:32] Chad: So I. [6:32] Mark: Anyway, I agree wholeheartedly with Aaron. [6:35] JD: Justin, can. [6:37] Justin: Can you just stop? We don't need Jay to get any ideas. We don't need another office. We don't need to go back to work. [6:42] Mark: We can't afford an office, dude, don't worry. It's fine. [6:46] JD: It's funny that Mark brings that up because that was. The owner thought me was like, well, Aaron, if all of your employees are at their desk working 9 to 5, which they should be, whether they're at home or in the office, you should, through technology, I would think, be able to set up a five minute huddle faster than, than being an asshole walking through the office, interrupting everyone that's answering emails on the phone and saying, meet me in the conference room in five. Like that's a dick move too. I would think in this modern world, you could say, hey, let's have a quick chat. Who can make it? Meet me in this, this virtual room and do it. But I think the bigger conversation I'll go to you, Trey, is like, where do you stand on the. Let's get back in the office. The old times were the better way. They were more efficient. We could collaborate more versus no, this new world is great, where we're all at home in our pajamas, working harder. Where do you stand on that? [7:44] Trey: Well, we have a hybrid model so the team can work from home on Monday, Thursday and Friday, and then are in the office on Tuesday and Wednesday, which is also when we have our. We have a weekly meeting on Wednesday. And it gives us a chance for any of these ad hoc huddles, things like that. And then we have a daily pulse on the remote days where we're all on for 15 minutes just to kind of get an idea of where everybody is that day and what they're working on. So I think, really, I think it kind of depends on the company, its own culture kind of work that you do. You know, sometimes, you know, I think if it's more creative, collaborative type work, it seems like there's magic that happens when you're physically with each other compared to being on Zoom. But even that's a broad stroke, I think. It's just really. [8:36] JD: I think it might be, you know, it's no secret to a lot of people. Another company that Brandon and I are working in right now and have lots of meetings is a design company. You know, like graphic design and website creation and logos. [8:49] Mark: And we don't talk about that on this show. Come on. [8:52] JD: But my point is that it's. It's as Trey would describe, that's very creative. We do just fine on the Internet, talking to each other and throwing ideas at each other. I might even argue. Sometimes the ability for someone to share an image, a project, a thing, you know, is. Is better than standing in a conference [9:10] Chad: room and trying to coordinate the technology and get everybody in there with their laptops. If that's the kind of meeting. Yeah, absolutely Right. And I will tell you whether it's just me or it's others. I was in Cali last week. I. I was driving home from San Diego. I rang Justin, I rang, rang Devin, and I'm like, hey, guys, I'm coming back. You want to stop for a beer or a cup of coffee? When we sat down at the table, it felt exactly like we were having a zoom meeting. It didn't feel like we do anything different in a zoom meeting. We bullshit for 15 minutes, we talk about business for a half an hour, and we move on to the next thing. Like it was. It was perfect. [9:46] Justin: I never have chips and margaritas when I'm on doom. [9:49] Chad: That's true. [9:50] Mark: I didn't realize the minute Chad came into California, if he's on the road, he gives you a call, you better be ready to meet him for lunch. Like, I'd rather meet you in a conference room, buddy. [10:00] Chad: I can't. [10:01] Justin: I cancel two meetings for that. [10:03] Chad: Wow. [10:04] JD: It's funny. Sounds like. It sounds like Trey is on the fence or he's got his politically correct, like, well, it depends. Or I like the hybrid model. Great. [10:13] Trey: Well, I mean, I mean, it's not that. I mean, we use the hybrid model, so that's what we do. But I mean, as far as, like, kind of a grander thought about it, you know, there's. I think there's certain things that we do better in office versus others, like when everyone's just kind of cranking out their tasks. Remote's awesome. Because you're not as distracted. Even in some of the meetings when we're just really just trying to get an idea, either a quick decision on something or, you know, something like that, I think it works great. Something, I think, where we really have to kind of Dive deep, roll up our sleeves, especially if we're ideating and that kind of thing. I find personally. And maybe that's just the Gen X I like being around because it just seems like there's. I don't know, there's almost like this other force that's there or something that's present that's not. When we are digitally. [11:06] JD: Yeah, maybe. [11:08] Mark: This is why I love the chap Art. Because as Trey, you. [11:12] JD: You. [11:12] Mark: You were speaking so eloquently. I really didn't want to make you stumble over what you're saying, because I have a tendency that. But the whole chat bar, just. [11:21] JD: What do you. [11:21] Mark: What, you don't use big words on this show. [11:24] JD: I love ideating. Oh, my God, I wish I could tell you. I can't even say that right. [11:29] Mark: I stumble over it. [11:31] JD: Oh, my God, I wish I could tell you, but I can't. You forbid me from it. I, like, I think Tony was onto something. And we talked about this in a past episode and we'll move on, but he said it's. It's only the man that wants people back at the office. And I think there's a shred of truth to that. Where. This is where Aaron Shun's coming from. There was a time when I proposed as the man a concept where this virtual office would be cool if I could see all of my employees at their virtual desk. You know, kind of like the Metaverse or whatever. And it was decided by everyone in the. On the show and here in the audience was that, like, that's just me wanting to control the people that work for me. And so I think Tony makes a lot of sense. It seems like a lot of the employees are like, give me my freedom. Give me my flexibility. Let me be efficient. I don't want to waste time in the. In the company kitchen and buy the water cooler and doing all this crap. But. And so I love working from home. And then it's the people that own the company that are paying all these people that are like, it must be a mistrust thing. It's gotta be like a. [12:35] Chad: And I. So I confidently say. I can confidently say I am more productive because of the lack of travel time, but way less productive when I'm sitting at the desk. Like, back when I was physically in office, when I was at the desk and not walking around talking to people, it was solely focused on everything right here. Now I'm at home and I'm at the desk. The kids are running down, the dog needs to be let out. There's food right upstairs. I'm gonna go make another cup of coffee. There's constant distraction so I get more done because I'm not spending an hour, two hours behind the wheel every day. But I'm never nearly as efficient sitting. [13:09] JD: You remember the old executive gripe though of going to the office. And this is here's another. The man problem or. Or the woman who's running the company is when I would go to the office, I feel like I couldn't get done because everyone that works for me is knocking on my door and needs to talk. [13:29] Chad: When you go in once a month, that's what happens. [13:33] Mark: And you're also the guy that's always like, my door's always open. [13:37] JD: I never said that. And by the way, by the way, Mark and Mark and everyone else that worked for me back then, what part of me walking into the office, going straight to my office and closing my door says stay the fuck away from me. Why don't they understand? [13:51] Justin: I don't remember a single time like that, to be honest with you. [13:55] JD: Let's. Let's go to the. Let's intro our guest, shall we, Justin? And then I can move on to another subject. So take it away, Justin. Time to intro the guest and chat bar. Wink, wink. [14:07] Justin: You know the rules. [14:08] JD: You know the rules. [14:09] Justin: We were today years old when we learned Trey's name is not his real name. His namesake is third in line because his parents are still living in the time of the Caesar. His real name is Guy. It's the man who doesn't does all the actual work for wealth at work. Unlike that pickleball playing who just happens to be totally fan. Father of 10 is the approver of our annual writer. He's the best looking man on this panel with the shittiest camera. The real brains behind the operations, the CFO advisor to X, Mr. [14:35] Mark: Guy. [14:35] Justin: Trey. Cool dowdy. [14:39] Trey: Thank you for having me. Good to be here, guys. [14:44] Chad: I don't know how many I did though. It's about time. [14:48] JD: Always considered you to be a friend and it's great to have you. The acro sin is going off the and so it's great to have you here, Brandon. [14:59] Mark: Not to be like picky on these visuals you make, but they got to snap. They got to be quick. They just boom, then they're done. Okay. [15:06] JD: I don't think his Internet's flying. I don't think his Internet's flying. [15:09] Mark: No, I'm the one pressing the buttons. I'm just letting him know when he creates them to make him Faster. [15:14] JD: Okay. [15:15] Chad: Wow. [15:16] JD: He's going to enjoy that. He'll probably have a call with you later. Let's, let's jump to, let's jump to cash balance plans and let's talk about. Chad sent this to me in an email. He wants to have a more in depth internal meeting about this. He's had some advisors bring it up, but. And I think we can stay general with it too. Like, we haven't talked a lot about cash balance plans on the show yet. We sell them all the time. And let's speak specifically to the investments in a cash balance plan. I was always taught that what you, I thought you had to do this, that the appropriate investment for a cash balance. And remember, everyone out there, this is a pool, right? You know, the participants in the cash balance don't individually direct their investments. It's pooled for the whole group. And I was always taught that you had to find a very conservative, dare I say safe investment, that you could clock in kind of this 4% type of return every year. But, but something built for that. And there are, by the way, like mutual funds were built for that very purpose as well as people kind of building their own. Well, this starts to pop up for Chad a little bit, this idea of market rate returns and cash balances. And apparently this is okay. Is it since 2019? I don't know. But, but you can do this now. You can have market rate returns. It just comes with some of the pros and cons. Chad, do you think I've described that properly? And what are, what kind of push are you getting from advisors? [16:54] Chad: Yeah, yeah, you described it properly. And guys already saying it's a horrible idea. That's kind of where we're standing with this guy is I keep getting the push from advisors. I think want to show more value in the cash balance space. And they think in doing so, I shouldn't be restricted to targeting a 4 to 6% rate of return. And for those that don't know the cash balance, like a defined benefit, we're. We're defining an amount of money that should be there in retirement. So we want stable rates of return. And usually we write into the plan that they're going to have a notional rate of return of 5%, meaning their principal is going to grow by 5% each year. And if they do more or they do less, then more or less dollars need to go into the plan to essentially keep it solvent. And I've had advisors over the last few years come at me once, twice, three times a year. Now it's coming far more frequent where they're saying, no, no, we're getting, we're getting told that you can actually do market rates of return. And if we do shitty, then everybody does shitty and the client doesn't have to make up for the loss in the rate of return. And if we do really well, then everybody gets a share of the really well and the client doesn't have to lower their funding level. And I always have to slow them down and say, number one, that's not right. If you do really well and you're exceeding a benefit, because most of the plans we write to be fully funded and maxing out their executives, then they're going to exceed the amount that they're allowed to get out of the plan and then we have to pull back what they just. [18:20] JD: Like I was taught, the whole reason behind not having an investment in your cash balance pool that does a 20% return in some year is, is that you're going to fuck up next year's contributions to those people. And that's really, dare I say, why they put it in place. I understand it's a defined benefit plan and the way that it's built is kind of to create this recurring revenue in retirement, you know, just like the old school pension plans. But the reality is a lot of these people that have these cash balance plans, these business owners are looking at it like, oh, I can defer $175,000 next year and I can do that every year. And if you come to them and say, guess what, you can't do that anymore because your investments did too well, that doesn't really line up with their needs. Right? [19:08] Trey: No. [19:09] Chad: And I try to slow folks down. Typically in this conversation, say, remember, we're not opening up the cash balance targeting rate of return, we're opening up the cash balance targeting tax efficiency. [19:21] Justin: Right? [19:21] JD: Perfect. [19:22] Chad: That's the objective here. If you want to try to crush it out of the ballpark, use the profit sharing safe harbor for one case side and use the cash balance of the notional rate of return. But I'm not going to lie, that's why I wrote you and said I want to dig in because some of the articles I've read and I think was October 3rd, I met with, there are a few that have some pretty compelling arguments. Now, every single one I get though seems to fit in the larger market. That's what you can dilute it with a lot of participants. [19:51] JD: And that was Guy's comment too, right? Is this doesn't work in the like the normal small, medium, micro market, but maybe in that like big, big company. [19:59] Chad: But there's also something we got to be open to. We have. Not only do we need to understand it better, but I need to make sure that if we have those advisors that are really looking to create this value for their client, they think this is their differentiator against another advisor that's doing cash balance plans, then I need to be ready to talk intelligently about it. And I don't feel like I've gotten enough insight to do that. I haven't found a resource to get us there. [20:24] JD: I feel like there's a couple of decent articles out there on the Internet that I, I seems to me most people agree with Guy that in the smaller plan space, which to me is, I mean call me where most of these are small and micro, that's where cash balance exists for me. I, I can't even imagine selling a cash balance to a 500 person firm or a thousand person firm. I don't even quite honestly know how that even makes sense. But shame on me, that's. I don't play in that big of a lake. [20:52] Chad: You know, we did two in the last two years. Well north of like 150 employees. [20:57] Trey: Oh Jesus. [20:58] Chad: And it was because they had so many key partners of the company that they wanted a max benefit that only covering 50 was easy and it made perfect tax sense for them. [21:10] JD: Well, I don't want to get too technical, but I thought that was interesting and that's the kind of shit we want to talk about on the show and stuff like that. So cash balance, we don't talk about it often. It's a great thing, comes with some nuances. Let's move on to Maine and Colorado partnering with each other. This caught me off guard. Maine and Colorado to partner on a state sponsored plan. I had to do like a geography test for myself real quick, which I knew, which I knew. But I was like, am I that dumb? Like is Colorado next to me? What am I not understanding? [21:50] Trey: Wow. [21:53] JD: So I don't know. Anyone want to chime in? So I don't take all the talking here. Did you? [21:58] Justin: I'm just waiting for you to talk about being the start of the state run pet. I'll drink for that. [22:07] JD: I think what was happening is Maine wants to get into the state run stuff. Colorado already is down that path and has their thing kind of figured out. And I think two things happened. Maine said, why should we reinvent the wheel? I have no idea why the connection between Maine and Colorado. I Don't know, maybe they just have beers together or something on the weekends. But they said, hey, these guys are already got this thing set up. Why don't we just kind of follow their lead? And then secondly, and I don't know how I feel about this, and it's kind of where I maybe want to take this conversation is that they could get more economies of scale, get lower fees. And so what I'd like to ask, [22:51] Justin: I mean, can they, I mean they don't have that big of a population. I'm trying to understand the point of this too. It doesn't make sense to me. Why not just replicate what they did? [23:02] JD: Let's just say that two is better than one. I can accept that. And this is not a pooled employer plan argument. Like I can accept that a higher headcount and more assets can garner you lower fees. By the way, Veswell is the, the record keeper on this thing. I'd still. What I'll tell you what I'd like the conversation I like to start hearing in future nights is, is anyone out there digging into the fee structures of these state run plans? There was a time when I dug into Oregon Saves and remember I, I took our friend, we met her live up in Oregon, she was running the Oregon Saves plan and I kind of drug her through the how I felt like the fee structure wasn't all that competitive. That was a long, long time ago. I think some people have looked at Cal Savers and, and made some of the same comments. I think there's been, I don't think, I know there's been some shift in vendors. Like some states have chosen vendors and then discontinued those contracts and it's usually been about profitability for the vendor that agreed to do it. Like it wasn't reaching the levels that they were hoping for and so they were losing money. I hope Aaron Shoom's not losing money on all these state run deals that he's, that he's inking, but part of me would love to understand those numbers. So that's what I'm throwing out to everyone. How do you feel about the fees? [24:23] Mark: Oh, I don't want to talk about fees. [24:25] JD: Go ahead. [24:26] Mark: I had a different take when I read this. It just reeks of like you know, in school when you did a group project and there was always one person who didn't do anything but took the credit. Like this is what that rig. So they're like, we don't want to spend time thinking about this, so why not just do what they're doing. That's fine. And again, maybe the people in Washington that represent those states are good friends. Go back college. I don't know. But I'm just saying I, I kind of laughed a little bit. But I'd say this is probably just the tip of the iceberg. Right. I'm sure many other states are probably on the fence and they're like, huh, didn't know we could do that. But obviously there's legal shit that has to be figured out because at the end of that article you saw that they were. Colorado was supposed to be doing this with New Mexico, but that's in sort of some legal amendment process right now, so they haven't finalized it. So Maine kind of jumped in and beat him to the punch. [25:24] JD: Wow. Mark, are you here to tell me that you've read the article all the way to the end? My God. [25:31] Trey: Just. [25:31] Mark: I'm just here to remind you that [25:32] Chad: I know how to read. [25:33] Justin: Yeah. [25:34] JD: What I would like to motivate. Go ahead, John. [25:37] Chad: I was, I was going to say two thoughts. One being if you read the article from a slightly different perspective than you all did, I don't see them saying it's going to lower the cost of the program itself. I don't think, I don't think Veswell went to Colorado and said, we're going to drop your fees now that you got Maine to join us. [25:54] JD: Okay. [25:55] Chad: I interpreted it as Maine and Colorado saying the oversight of this from a state level can now be split by the two, the two different governments. [26:07] JD: They can lower their internal operational expenses and oversight. [26:11] Chad: That's the way I interpret it. The other thing that I wish we could see, and we've said this a couple of times, I would love to see the employees of Maine be able to just simply use the Colorado state mandated plan. Well, why do we have to create a main plan? [26:30] JD: What you would love to see, and I think maybe you're leaning towards this is like a national template. Like why not just have enough. [26:38] Chad: Absolutely. I'm not. I know I'm gonna get some for this. I'm not necessarily saying that I'm, I'm wholeheartedly into a national mandate, although I will argue that I could be. What I would rather see is, is instead if you are a small employer and you live somewhere on the east coast where often, even for us, we've got employees in what, nine, ten states now, and you have to go into each of those states and claim exemption from their individual plans, why can't we just have a plan? Why can't California's plan be offered to employees of other states. And I know it's the facilitation of the. The state taxes and such, but I just think that we're, we're things up. We're making it way more difficult than we're trying to get people to save. [27:25] JD: Let me try to explain something to you, chad. There are 50 states in the United States of America and, and each of them have rights and that they can make their own laws and regulations within these states. So this is why different states have different things, you dumb dip. [27:47] Chad: Hey, I'm not saying. [27:48] Justin: Wow, you, you really recovered from your geography comment, Katie. [27:53] Mark: When's the last time you sold a plan? [27:58] Chad: I'm saying that you should be able to use it even if it's not a mandate. Why can't employees of one state use the state? Ran Ira of a different state. [28:09] JD: Right. Well. And what you're saying too is I [28:13] Mark: would like to know what Trey thinks. That's what I want to know. [28:16] Trey: Well, I just saw it come up on the chat feed. I agree with Chad. It's. It's just like how a 529 plan. Plans are. Right. And the idea here is to increase savings. And just short of having a federal plan. Right. That everyone can plug into, then why not allow the other ones to be able to plug to it, plug into other states? I don't. I don't see why either. Especially since we're dealing with plans that are really affected more on the federal level anyway. Right. Maybe I don't know enough of the. How it could vary state to state. I mean, it's simply a individual retirement arrangement, right? [28:56] JD: Yeah. [28:56] Trey: And so to me, I'm not real sure why it varies state to state anyway, personally, but. Well, I don't know why. Why does it vary state? [29:06] JD: It would very. I would answer that question by simply saying, like, there are some states that think having a mandate is the right way to go. And there are other states that. That does not align with their principles of their politics. So like, it goes all the way back to. Not to get all serious on it, but it goes all the way back to these states want to have their own rights and how they govern their people. And it's just. I will stop talk about abortion, please. But it's the same thing. [29:35] Trey: But once the. Once the plan is already established, like to what Chad was saying, then that state said, okay, we do want to. This is how we govern our people. But why couldn't a state that doesn't have access to one be able to do it right. [29:52] JD: That'd be great. California has a state mandate. And you respond to California and say I'm in the main plan, bro, I'm all good. I set up on the main plan. I'm solid. We have one. I don't. [30:03] Chad: Or you're a California based business and you've got employees in different states. Like can those employees that are sitting in Tennessee use the Cal Savers plan? The answer right now is no, they can't. [30:16] JD: Can someone explain something to me? Holly said vest welly up. And I don't know what it's referencing and I don't know if I'm smart enough to understand it, but I love it. What is she talking about? [30:27] Chad: That's welly up Vest well. [30:29] JD: Yep. Holly, let me know, let me know. In the chat bar. Let's. Let's spin the wheel of ice. And then I got a surprise for everybody. A really good surprise. Please should trademark that. [30:49] Chad: Every time I hold it up, JD gets it. [30:53] JD: Okay. [30:53] Chad: Good odds. [30:54] JD: All right, before I pound this, let me set up the next segment. It's a brand new segment and remember I said I love the Chapar. Right? So I'd like to get closer to the chat bar. And I mean that in a physical and a sexual sense. Like I want to get as close to them as I possibly can because I love them and I'm obsessed with them. So what I'd like to do is isolate a certain, you know, reoccurring chat bar local that comes on the regular and get to know them a little better. So I'd like to call it Chat Bar xoxo. And today we're all going to get to learn a little more about Mr. Hackler. Now you might ask yourself, how will you get to know more about Mr. Hackler? Well, I think the best way would be to talk to one of his loved ones. Let's get one someone who knows him on the show and we can talk to them. So Brandon, if you could, I need you to promote the guest Mike, simply Mike to the as a panelist video and everybody we are going to be talking to assuming I can make this all work. Where is she? Where is she? Come on, Brandon. [32:17] Chad: I don't think she's not in her camera guest named Mike. [32:20] JD: If she doesn't have her camera on. Let's go audio too. Brandon, if that's the thing. Are you there? There she is. We're going to talk to Will Hackler's 22 year old daughter, Maddie. Hi Maddie, how are you? Good, how are you? I'M good. [32:38] Mark: Oh, so Hackler had no clue, huh? [32:43] JD: Secret. Let's see, boys. You have some good questions. I don't want to steal anyone's, so I'll start with. I'll just do one of Brandon since Brandon's audio sucks today. Brandon wanted to know, Maddie, does your mom sleep in the same bed as your dad and his golf clubs? No, actually no golf clubs. [33:11] Chad: Get the right. [33:13] JD: The golf clubs are not in the bed. Okay. Maddie, how many. How many paintings of himself does your dad have hanging in the house? Paintings or pictures? [33:26] Speaker D: I guess. I guess none. [33:28] JD: Okay, none. That's good. [33:31] Chad: We hack a painting of himself. [33:34] JD: That'd be a red flag [33:38] Justin: like the one from God. Wedding crashers. [33:41] JD: I'll do one more and I'll let the boys take it over. I know that he recently went to a Taylor Swift concert. [33:48] Speaker D: Yes. [33:48] JD: This is a two part question, Maddie. Would you call him a Swifty? And do you think he danced at the concert? [33:58] Speaker D: Well, he has been to now three Taylor Swift concerts with me, so yes, I do consider him swifty. And yes, he did dance a little bit. His favorite thing to do though is to count how many costume changes she has. [34:12] JD: Oh, wow. Very analytical. And what. Give me an over under on that. What do you. What are we talking, like 15, 20, 10? [34:21] Speaker D: I mean, I think the number was about 15 to 20 this time. He likes to bet with. Bet with everyone around us. [34:29] Chad: Over unders. [34:30] JD: I mean, the eras. Is it the ERAs tour or the ERA tour? I don't know, but it's. [34:34] Chad: Don't act like you don't know. [34:36] JD: I know. I mean, I have been known. I haven't known to throw a little swifty on from time to time. Justin, you have a question for Maddie? [34:45] Justin: I got two. How many meetings does he attend a week? [34:52] Speaker D: I mean, unless he's keeping that a secret. [34:57] Trey: Well, it is in the name, right? [34:59] Justin: Yeah, it is. [35:01] JD: Don't. [35:01] Mark: Oh, God damn it. That's also an acrosin, Justin. [35:04] Chad: That's why I say God damn it. [35:06] JD: All right, the next one. [35:09] Justin: Does he weep when Taylor Swift swing? We are never getting back together. [35:14] Speaker D: What'd you say? [35:16] Justin: Does he weep when Taylor Swiftly thing. We are never getting back together? [35:21] Speaker D: Yes. [35:23] Chad: Oh, yeah. [35:26] JD: Mark, you have a question for Maddie. [35:30] Mark: Man, these. These are brutal questions. Matty, I'm gonna. I wanna. I wanna learn. I. Unlike my compadres here, I'd like to learn a little bit more about your dad. I've spent some time with him, but not nearly as much as you, obviously. I just want to. I got a Couple questions, but I would like you to share a story. What would be probably the most embarrassing story about your dad that you could share with all of us. [35:52] JD: Good one. [35:54] Chad: And we promise, you're 22. He can't ground you anymore. [35:59] Mark: That's not true, dude. You don't listen to Chad. Yeah, he can do a lot to ground you. Like, literally keep you on the ground. [36:12] JD: I love that she thinks about it. She's like, I gotta make sure I get the right one here. [36:17] Mark: Okay, how about that? How about this? Table. Table that thought until maybe the end to get your. Get the creative juices flowing instead. How about this? [36:28] JD: What's. What's something that. [36:34] Mark: Oh, I have so many directions. I can go here. Okay, let's go sentimental. Did he cry when you, like, left for your first day of school when you were a kindergartner? Like, I cried this morning when my son did. Okay, this isn't about me. This is about him. [36:52] Speaker D: I don't. I don't remember. That was a long time ago. [36:58] JD: Honest answer. [36:58] Mark: How about when you grab. When you graduated from high school, did he cry? [37:02] Speaker D: Yes. Yes, he did. Okay. [37:05] Chad: This guy has a sentimental side. [37:07] JD: I think I hear. [37:08] Justin: I hear mom in the background right now. Do you guys. Yeah, yeah. [37:14] JD: Can we get. Is mom there? Can she hear us? [37:17] Speaker D: He cried at her very last dance recital. [37:20] JD: Mom, Mom, Mom. Can I ask you, mom, is it. Is it hard keeping all the food in your house because your husband eats it all? [37:28] Trey: Very hard. Yes. Very, very hard. [37:34] JD: How good of a golfer does your dad think he is? Not. Not what you think he is. On a 0 to 10. How good does Hackler think he is at golf? [37:43] Speaker D: I mean, be honest. He probably a 10. [37:50] Chad: Hey, he drove five hours to play golf this morning or today? I chatted. I chatted with him earlier. [37:58] Mark: Does he iron his tighty whities prior to wearing them? [38:04] Chad: That's a question for Mom. I feel like you needed to. [38:07] Justin: What is up with all the fish belt? [38:10] JD: What? Fish melt. [38:11] Justin: What's up with all those fish belts? The belt. They always have fish. [38:16] JD: Yeah, I don't know. [38:17] Speaker D: They sell them at the PGA store. [38:21] JD: That's where he shops. Okay. Did Maddie. It's been years now that on a Thursday nights, your dad would crawl down into some basement or some offshoot room, close the door. He'd probably bring like 12 beers with him. [38:40] Chad: And those early days, and he'd be [38:42] JD: gone for two hours watching some creepy podcast on his monitor. Were you worried about him at that time? Yes or no. And. And what do you think the Average number of beers consumed on a show back in the day was. [39:01] Speaker D: I thought it was a little weird, but the average number, I'm. I'm not quite sure because he. He used to have a mini fridge in the basement, so. [39:12] JD: So just. Just like his AA meetings, he keeps that under wraps? Yes. Oh, damn it. Trey, do you have a question for Maddie before we let her go? [39:24] Trey: I do. Did your dad clean his chainsaw when you brought your first boy home? Because I. I. Having two daughters can understand that. So. [39:35] Speaker D: Not that I. Not that I know of. [39:39] JD: So is he. Is he friendly to boyfriends or. Or, like, does he say hello and talk to them and they like him and are nice to them, or is he more standoffish? [39:50] Speaker D: He is. He's best friends with my sister's boyfriend. [39:54] JD: Okay, Hacking. All right, I have one last one for you, and I want you to be super honest. [39:59] Mark: What about Chad? Chad doesn't ask a question. [40:02] Chad: You guys took them all. I was gonna tell Maddie that I spent some time with your dad and your mom in Arizona, and they talked a lot about you and not much about your sister, so you must be pretty special. Who the favorite reaction there? [40:18] JD: That one. Maddie, I just want to tell you, you're 22 years old. You seem very well put together, very smart, very personable. [40:28] Mark: I'm way more put together than we are. [40:30] JD: Yeah, I'm shocked that Hackler is your father. And. And also my son, who's. Who's 19, is a complete fuck up compared to you. So keep it going. Keep it going. You're supposed to be on this damn show tonight drinking beers for Trey. Okay, Maddie, thank you so much. And I promise you I will erase your number from my phone right now. You'll never hear from me again. I know that would be a creepy experience for you, so thanks for rock, Maddie. [41:02] Mark: Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you, Mike. See you, Mike. [41:08] JD: And that has been a segment called Champ Bar. Xo, xo, jd. [41:14] Chad: You were saying you were surprised that that hack had something to do with raising her? Because he's pretty awesome, but her mom is. Is legit. Like, hack married up. Her mom's legit, I think. I think there's a lot of that in there. [41:28] JD: Fair enough. That's. I probably would have assumed that. Okay, we're gonna go. [41:32] Justin: I was hoping to see more from him in the chat bar. You guys see anything? [41:35] Chad: He's been. I think he's driving still. [41:38] JD: Yeah. [41:39] Justin: Okay. [41:39] JD: It was really awkward, by the way, for me to text his daughter and be like, hey, it's one of the guys from that creepy show. Do you want to help me out with something? Okay. What I'd like to do now is go to a bit of a potpourri subject, if you will. It's no secret to anyone. Trey's from Advisor 2X. They put on numerous conferences, but one of the. One of the conferences that we all love from the bottom of our heart is the wealth at Work. And it's in D.C. this year, or we don't call it D.C. where is it? [42:13] Trey: Yeah, it's National harbor national [42:18] JD: at the Gaylord. I have two. [42:22] Chad: Yep, you said it twice. [42:24] Justin: Yep. [42:25] Chad: You're welcome. [42:25] JD: And what I'd like to do is I have written down many, many of the speakers and subjects that appear on the agenda right now. Wealthatwork Live is where it's at. [42:38] Trey: I get that. [42:39] JD: Right. Trey Wolf at work Live. And so I'm just gonna pull from the hat any one of these random subjects and we'll just have a small little conversation about it. Sound good? And is Roby gone for good? [42:57] Chad: Apparently he's not in the cue list anymore. [43:00] JD: I thought he had to leave it like at 5:30, not like in the middle of show, but maybe I'm wrong. He probably told me that. Oh, boy. [43:06] Justin: No, he said this is not the [43:09] JD: first one I wanted to pull. Okay. Good thing Robi's not here. Financial Wellness. How to build it out. Brad Aarons of Intellisense and Sam Mitchell of Sentinel Group will be doing this presentation at 11am on Tuesday the 17th. I think these two have presented and people have enjoyed it. Here's what I want to ask you, Trey. Not necessarily this specific presentation, because I'm tired of talking about wellness, to be honest with you. But I noticed in looking through the agenda, I don't know, I think you got like half a dozen wellness topics, like, so. So I've been. I've been brainwashed by Robey. Apparently you're all committee and. And everyone running this conference thinks that this is a very hot topic and a big one. I mean, can you give us any kind of insights or thoughts on that? Wellness permeates your agenda. [44:10] Mark: Are we talking about wellness? [44:13] Chad: Just in time. [44:15] Mark: I got kicked out after Matty left. I thought maybe you guys finally let me go. [44:21] Trey: I think we're starting to, you know, wellness has been kicked around for, you know, the last few years. And I think what we're seeing now, though, is kind of the idea and its execution is more mature now than it was several years ago when it was really starting to kind of you know, this whole idea of convergence and trying to offer more planning to the masses and addressing more on the participant level. And, you know, even when we changed our name, you know, wealth at work, we were incorporating that idea into it where it's not just the 401k plan, but it's just that broader sense of how to make sure that employees or participants are building wealth. Right. Not just through their plan, but through other means too, so that when they retire, they're actually ready for it. So I think what we're seeing now, it's not that wellness, the idea of it, that's obviously not new, and I'm kind of tired of it myself, but I think how it's being executed and the different tools that are available now that weren't available five years ago. I think one of the things that I'm actually excited about with artificial intelligence is how it's going to be able to up the game with being able to service participants and give them a level of advice or service that is difficult to do. Now with an advisor servicing a plan, I think it's going to kind of be. I don't know, I kind of see Sigourney Weaver and that thing at the end of Aliens, you know, that's kind of how I picture Artificial intelligence is making the. Making it the advisor, more like robocop, you know. Well, but it won't replace an advisor. I think an augment. But I think it's going to enable some of these services to be pushed out to the participants. That. That just was hard to do five, six, seven years ago, for sure. [46:18] JD: One of the challenges wellness has faced is scalability, right. And how to help the masses. That's one of its biggest problems because the math doesn't work right. How are you going to help a thousand people out of plan that don't have large assets in their account and make that profitable in some way? And you're right, Trey, like artificial intelligence, one of the. One of the values it's going to have is to be able to look at large sets of data and make intelligent assumptions about that data and push out communications as well. As you pointed to offer help, you know, they can make and go and ask. But I agree with you. I think artificial intelligence could. Artificial intelligence can impact lots of things, and so could it impact financial wellness? Of course. And I also like what you said about. I think every time we get a wellness person on our show, Rovi hints towards the concept of like, okay, well, is it working? You know, how many people are taking it up, how many people are adopting it. And I think we still get some pretty pitiful answers from a lot of them. They kind of dance around and, and try to figure it out. So I do hope at wealth at work that most of those, dare I call them, breakouts, most of those presentations are, are more about like, look, this is succeeding, this is working, this is reaching this percentage of the population. And obviously I think the point of seeing it throughout your agenda is industry is not giving up on it. Chad, you look like you have a thought and we can move on. [47:49] Chad: I had two quick things. One being, and we've said this before in the past, do we all feel that this is a necessary step in the evolution of our space? And I think our answer is yes, we want to service more lower account balance people that truly need the help, that don't have an outside advisor. And we, we want them to pay down their credit card debt before they start saving into the 401k. Like these are general financial aspects that these people need. And if the answer is yes, we think that this is part of what people need, then we need to keep doing it. We can't stop just because the take rates are low. We can't move away from it when, when we know it's a necessity. [48:29] Mark: That, that's the thing right there, Chad. It's the need versus the want conversation. Right? Because there's more people who think that people want it and not enough people know that they need it. Okay. It's because it's been very true, marketed and branded incorrectly. And I'm not saying I know how to do it, I'm just saying facts. You know, like, I agree, I think everybody needs it wholeheartedly. [48:55] Chad: We need to keep, we need to keep pushing. That is my only point. Like when you initially said it, J.D. i was like, oh my gosh, eight times on the agenda. And then as we started talking, I'm like, yeah, yeah, I get it. It should be. And then the other point, did you see Holly's comment, which I'd never heard it before. Holly said in the chat bar she, she sets up more wellness with employee benefits than she does with retirement. And I started to think, oh, you know, because we're so narrowly focused on the retirement plan space, we see this as a byproduct of the 401k. But she's 80% more. She says she's seeing it when she's doing the full employee benefits picture versus the retirement picture. Maybe we're just slightly narrow minded in [49:40] JD: that I don't know what the trigger is there, why that would be the [49:44] Chad: case, because they're thinking more holistically perhaps, than just investments. [49:49] JD: Well, well, Lisa said, Lisa Allen said that this wellness thing is inevitable and good. I don't know, Lisa, I might challenge you on that. I think that it's right. Like, I'll kind of back up what everyone said so far. Like, I would love to see a future where workplace retirement plans, or to Holly's point, workplace benefits was the conduit for individuals, personal financial planning and wellness, whatever, however you want to define that. But to Mark's point, you can't force feed the people what they don't want. You know, I mean, if, if, if they don't want it or they're not in any position to be looking at their finances in that way. Sometimes we have to, we have to step back and realize, Lisa, that we're kind of myopic. Like we're obsessed with this shit because we live, breathe and sleep it every day. And we're so obsessed with financial planning and retirement and your wealth and your money. There's a lot of people that are just fine living their life and don't give a shit about that stuff. Am I right? Chad, tell me Missouri is not, you know, going fishing and drinking a beer. [50:59] Chad: So very right. [51:01] JD: Yeah. [51:01] Chad: It doesn't change the fact that it's needed and, and yet forcing it. Mark, your point was valid. Like, I don't, I don't even know how to respond other than create a mandate that forces them to use wellness. I don't know. But it's needed. [51:15] JD: I will end this right now and we'll move on to another one here. But the scoreboard so far would, would, would say the odds don't look great. So I'd love to see this change, but so far I kind of would jump over to Robi's camp and be like, nothing's working yet. People like, I am not seeing plan sponsors lining up to do this and advocate for it and push for it. And by the way, you might get it at Meta and Google and some large, you know, Fortune 5000 company. But, but the most businesses are small to medium sized businesses across the US And I think when you think about a wellness program at a, at a five person flower shop on the corner, I think people start laughing about that. Like, you're going, I love that. [52:05] Mark: You always say, yeah, I do. Flower shop. [52:08] JD: No, I say auto shop or flower shop. [52:11] Mark: Isn't it called a florist though? [52:13] JD: Like, thank you. The next one prospecting Powerhouse is the title. This relates to prospecting with, excuse me, Internal Revenue Service 50000s. It's presented by Craig Rosenthal of Fiduciary decisions. It's at 150 on Monday, October 16th. I'm going to skip by you, Trey, because I don't know how much of your day you spend thinking about prospecting with 5000 500s. But. But you can. We can get your thoughts here in a second. But Justin, Advisors come to you. They want to know how to grow their business. Is this so 10 years ago, or do we still mine IRS 5500 data to find prospecting opportunities to call on, email on them? What did I do? Damn it. [53:08] Justin: What did he say? It's more prevalent, I think, with the newer advisors. Definitely it's still something they're doing. That's what they're calling record keepers and getting lists for and stuff. And they, they come to come to us and ask about, trying to find some holes. But I think there's. There's definitely other ways. It's not as popular as it used to be. [53:26] JD: Trey, you're. Are you familiar with this presentation? I mean, you don't get to see all you are. Okay, so you think there's some. You think Craig's gonna bring some new insights on how to analyze 5000-500-500 and kick open doors of opportunities? [53:44] Trey: Well, I think, you know, to Justin's point, if you're newer in the industry, it'll be. If you've never done it before, then it'll bring some insight. But I also think if. If advisors that are in the space that have hit a bump and maybe aren't bringing on prospects like they would like, then it would get them to look at it again. [54:06] JD: I've always thought it can be. [54:07] Mark: All I can say is if you want to be prepared, why not take a look at them, Right? I don't think it should be the driving force behind your prospecting, but if you can go in and talk to a couple of points saying like, hey, you got a participant. [54:23] JD: You're just talking about like meeting prep now, Mark, like I told no one. [54:27] Mark: Yeah, I know. I think you should utilize. So sorry to my answer your question, probably. [54:31] JD: No, no, I like that you said that, but you're just saying, like, you're going to use a fit 500 to like, get some type of knowledge on what you're walking into. But I think this presentation is built on how you can really mine this data. Trey, you mentioned artificial intelligence earlier. I know there's companies that were in this data mining of 5,500 space and new companies that are thinking, oh, we could use artificial intelligence to really sift through the hundreds of thousands of 50000 and really narrow down things in a much more efficient way than we've done historically. Sherry says yes. So I mean, that's kind of exciting. But then I kind of circle right back to the same point. Like great advisor here you have a list of 10 companies that you've never met in your life. You don't know anyone there, and you know that they're all between 10 million and 15 million with 50 to 200 participants. And they're with these kind of vendors and they clicked this code on their 5500 because they failed their ADP test. Big whoops. How does that get you anywhere closer to [55:39] Chad: dude, you are in some ways, like, I mean, all it takes is. Sorry, go ahead, Trey, go ahead. [55:46] Trey: No, go ahead, Chad. I apologize. Go ahead. [55:47] Chad: I was. It just takes one. Jd. We always talk about the people who buy leads. All you need to do is close one to cover the cost of leads you purchased for the year. [55:57] JD: How about a leads, a meeting? [55:59] Chad: Are they, are they going to be any more efficient in closing those? I don't know. Are they going to be more efficient in getting in front of one if they send out a mailing to 50 or 75 groups in their area that have had corrective distributions? Yeah, they probably will get a meeting out of sending out one email that is mass produced to 50 different groups. [56:20] JD: I guess the question in our old friend Stephen Wilkinson, what does he say? Nothing [56:30] Mark: works well. [56:31] Chad: Well, nothing works well. [56:32] Justin: Nothing works great. [56:33] JD: Everything works. Nothing works well or nothing works great? [56:36] Chad: Yeah. [56:36] JD: And so my point is, okay, but we're grouping together here on a Thursday night. We're trying to figure out like what's the best, most efficient, most strategic approach. And I, and I'm just starting to think that pulling a list to understand like what targets are in your geographical area or size or whatever is. I think there's a lot better ways to spend your time is all I'm saying, than doing that. [56:58] Chad: But that was kind of my point that time spent JD is so minimal. Like Justin said, you can call a record keeper, give them a few parameters. They're going to pull a list with all the characteristic codes. They're going to give you one page overviews of the highlights that they identify as issues. It's all done via automation. And then you build an email template that goes out to those folks that say, hey, yeah, you know, I was checking businesses in our area. I noticed you didn't have a fidelity bond. And so I thought I'd reach out and see if anybody's talked to you about that. It could be that simple. And you could send it out to 30 companies. And you're. [57:35] JD: Or if you're smart, you look at the 5500, you find out who the chief financial officer is. You do some kind of black market search on that person, find out where they live. You park out in front of their house and slouch down in your driver's seat. And then you follow them to Starbucks. Or maybe they go to a local gym. And you join that gym and you get right next to them when it's time to do push ups and you say, hey, buddy, you smell good. And they say, oh, you smell good too. And you start a friendship. And then four weeks later, you drop the hammer and you sell them a 401k plan. [58:11] Trey: Boom. [58:12] Mark: So you did that. [58:18] JD: Let's go to the next one. One more. Oh, okay. This is fun. An Introduction to Travel Hacking. Do you know who does this presentation? Anybody? I know Trey does, but I'm sure the Sherry Fitz. You're such a good student right at the front of the class. Thomas Clark of the Wagner Law Group, 2:25pm on Monday, October 16th. And Trey, I'm thinking this one's been done before. I think it was done last year or maybe the year before, but people at our. [58:52] Trey: At our event, you mean? Or just out there? [58:54] JD: Was it somewhere else? [58:56] Trey: Because. Because he hasn't done this at our event. Probably since pre pandemic at least. [59:02] Mark: Caught you. [59:04] JD: Maybe he's been moonlighting on you somewhere else. I don't know. But I'm guessing you're doing this because it's pretty popular. Yeah. People like. [59:11] Trey: Well, it's popular and the programs change. Right. So even. Even the way the credit card deals are with the loyalty points and all that stuff. So it's changed, but. So it's a popular one. It's always. He always packs the room with that topic. This is probably out of the. What? This is our ninth one. Our ninth year doing this. I think this is his third time doing it over time. So we space it out. So he comes about every four years or so. But it's different. Like the idea is the same, but the execution of it's different because of what the programs are at the time. Yeah. [59:46] Chad: And those programs change. Yeah, exactly. I'm in. Even if I had been before, I'd be going to that one in a Heartbeat. [59:51] JD: I'll tell you one that I learned many years ago. I'm probably going to get in trouble for this, but sitting in the backseat of a car with two of my defined contribution investment only friends, and I think their names ran. Rhymed with Patty Munter and Jimmy Flay. And there was another one in the car and his name was Sam. It was Stefan. Monster. Monster. And anyways, one of them got on the phone with a hotel and was trying to book because, you know, they travel up and down the west coast to go meet with advisors. He's trying to book a hotel room at a really fancy hotel. And I'm sitting there, I got so awkward because he's like, can you try the. The IBM code? And they're like, I'm sorry, there's no discount for the IBM code. He's like, can you try the Morgan Stanley code? And like, I'm sorry, we don't have a discount for your room on the Morgan Stanley code. He went through like five codes, and finally he got one. And the chick's like, okay, your 600 room is only $175 for the night because you're using this code with this business. And I'm like, is she concerned that you don't work for those eight companies you just mentioned? And he goes, when they ask me that, I just tell them I work in retirement plans and I work with all of them, you know, And. And I was like. So I. I said, hey, can I write down some of those codes? Like, give me. And I started writing them down, and my wife's been using them for years, and. And recently it's kind of dried up. To your point. Like, some of the hotels say, no, no, no. [1:01:30] Chad: I was going to say you've been holding out on us. [1:01:33] JD: So anyways, travel hacks with Thomas Clark. It should be fun, should be cool. And again, that's on. Well, I don't know when that's on. I lost my little piece of paper. You can find it at WealthatWork live. Okay, chopper champion. Last week's champ was Nathan Bell. Do you know where he works? Mark, how many. Do you remember where Nathan works? No Human Interest. He works at Human Interest. I wrote him today and I said, hey, bro, I think I started the. The Direct message with bruh. And he wrote back, and I said, I. Where are you? Where you stay right now, my dude? Like, I need to send you some stuff. Your chap, our champion. And he wrote back and he goes, nah, it's cool, bro. Like, I'm. I'm just cooking out with my niece or sister or something. I don't remember. Is he still here? Is he here? And, and I, and he said, so you don't have to send me anything. And I said, look, if I'm not going to send you anything, then I threatened him and I said, I'll send like 24 raw chickens or I was thinking maybe like big old fish with their heads attached or something. [1:02:50] Trey: And I'll. [1:02:51] JD: And I'll send them the human interest corporate headquarters attention Nate Bell. And by the way, if he didn't respond to me, I fully intend to follow through with that. Like I'm gonna send that shit. He wrote back and he said, okay, I'll take a little something. So I sent him some dessert. I'm not going to read the whole list. I basically went to Dunkin Donuts is right down the street from where he was at and he's got like 24 donuts and like 25 of the little donut holes and some kind of ice creamy kind of drink. So. Congratulations to Nate Bell, a first time winner from Chat Bar Champion last week. I hope you enjoyed and have finished the the donuts. Now remember, we've changed up chapter champion a little bit. We're each gonna vote for someone and then whoever makes the final list, they gotta go head to head in a battle in the chat bar to finish a sentence that Robey creates for them. So. And Robey, you do have like three minutes. Okay, Justin, your vote for chopper Champion. [1:03:57] Justin: It's no secret. I thought I was gonna sneak this one in, but it's. It's Maddie and Mrs. Hackler. Chat bars all over it. [1:04:04] JD: Okay. Oh, oh. So what's it Mike is that. [1:04:09] Chad: I think. I think Mike's gone. I said she bounced. [1:04:12] Mark: Did she? [1:04:13] JD: Well, that's going to be an easy win. That's going to be an easy win for someone in that there won't be to compete. So. Well done, Justin. Chad, your vote for chat Bar champion. [1:04:24] Chad: Oh man, I. I have. It was early comments and then he got quiet, so hopefully he's still listening. But it's Brian Williams. [1:04:31] JD: Oh, okay. The certified public accountant. Am I getting it right? Trey, your vote or champion? [1:04:39] Trey: I'll have to. I'll have to go. After coming off the overwhelming success of Sway, if I would say Sherry Fitz. [1:04:47] JD: Oh, Sherry. [1:04:48] Chad: Sherry was solid tonight. That's a good one. [1:04:51] JD: You little conference buddy. You. You and Sherry, she. By the way, I was at Sway with the company that Rogue guy does not allow me to mention. And it was a phenomenal conference. There was tears, there was kumbayas. There was great relationships for built. Well done, Cherry Fitz rope guy. Your vote for chapter champion. [1:05:14] Mark: I'm gonna go with a tried and true. I just. I've enjoyed his presence and his non stop comments is Greg Greenfield. [1:05:22] JD: Craig Greenfield. Oh, wow. Okay, this might be a battle of some greatest of all times because I am going to go with Moises. She still here, Daniela? [1:05:34] Chad: She's still here. [1:05:36] JD: Still here. And she can be she in the chat bar. So dare I say I'm betting on my horse for this? Not that you're a horse, Daniela, but you know what I mean. You know what I mean. All right, Roby, what sentence are they gonna finish? Drum roll. [1:06:01] Chad: Brandon's gotta have little monkeys that do that. [1:06:03] JD: That's not what a drum sounds like. [1:06:10] Mark: If you were taking Mr. Hackler out on a first date, where would you take him? [1:06:19] Justin: And would you pay? [1:06:21] JD: Never. [1:06:24] Justin: Okay. [1:06:24] JD: And we all know who we're looking for, right? That's pretty solid. Sherry with Hooters. What a great start. And quick, Daniela with. To the marshes by the Meadowlands. That must be an east coast saying that. I don't know. Or is that a. [1:06:42] Justin: Sounds like someone. [1:06:44] Chad: Gigi says mini golf. [1:06:47] JD: Who do we get with mini golf? Are we missing someone yet? [1:06:52] Mark: That's two for Chad right there. [1:06:53] JD: Great. No. Yeah, great. [1:06:54] Mark: Oh, that doesn't count right now. [1:06:56] Chad: Oh, wait, we're an after show. Justin. [1:06:58] Justin: No, we are not. [1:07:00] JD: Mini golf Is Craig. Okay? We're missing the cpa. [1:07:03] Chad: Damn it, Brian. [1:07:09] Mark: Sherry. [1:07:10] Chad: Oh, bottom Bing is what Brian said. [1:07:13] JD: Ryan goes with bottom being Brian. [1:07:15] Chad: You were supposed to come up with an answer, dude. Okay, don't make me look bad. Geez. [1:07:20] JD: Be honest with you. I mean, I. I don't know. [1:07:22] Mark: Brashaw said bottom golf, and I love that so much. [1:07:26] JD: But Brashaw's not in the final. [1:07:28] Mark: I know. I'm saying I wish he was. [1:07:31] JD: So am I wrong or is this a Hooters? [1:07:35] Chad: It's gotta be a Sherry. [1:07:37] JD: Oh, Sherry Fitz. Congratulations. [1:07:39] Trey: Sherry Fitz delivering Jerry Fitz. [1:07:43] JD: You are chap. Our champion again. [1:07:45] Mark: You did see that she's already requested her prize, right? [1:07:48] JD: Oh, no, no. I know what her prize is. I'm gonna go off. [1:07:52] Chad: Oh, hey, wait, hold on. Time out. Someone mentioned it, so I researched real quick. The Bada Bing is apparently a fictional strip club on the HBO drama television show the Sopranos. Well, yeah, you. [1:08:05] Mark: But we didn't know. We didn't know. [1:08:07] JD: Brian. [1:08:08] Chad: Kudos, Brian. Thank you. I didn't. Have faith. Well done, buddy. [1:08:13] Mark: Sherry. Red vines. [1:08:14] JD: He saved Face. That was a. That was a good answer. Had we known. But to mark's point, you need to know your. Your audience. We don't know what the fuck you're talking about. [1:08:21] Mark: We're dumb. [1:08:22] JD: Dumb? Yeah, we're. [1:08:23] Chad: Jerry. [1:08:24] JD: I will run off to a glass kiln and mold a heart in the shape of my own heart for you and. I don't know. We'll figure out what we're going to send you. What did she say she wanted? [1:08:34] Mark: Red Vines. A case of them. [1:08:36] JD: Red Vines. [1:08:37] Chad: Yeah. [1:08:38] JD: I'll send you a Toyota pickup truck full of Red Vines. I'm gonna do case of them. All right. Okay. One thing before we leave. Two things. [1:08:48] Chad: I got one, too. [1:08:49] JD: Very quick. I just want to give an update on Mickey Murphy. [1:08:53] Chad: That's what I was gonna do. [1:08:55] JD: Okay. Well, she's alive. She's had, like. She can't even count the surgeries. Her husband says, like, I don't know, 6, 16 or something, I'm guessing. But she's alive. And she has a phenomenal attitude. I've been kind of messaging her back and forth. They have amputated her leg at her knee. And she's like, it. She didn't say it. I did. She's like, it's all good. I'm gonna get a prosthetic or whatever. I'm gonna become Terminator chick. Like, she just has a phenomenal attitude about this so horrific car accident. We were all worried about her. And by the way, she's still. She was celebrating eating a sandwich on her own just yesterday, so, I mean, she's still dealing with a lot of tough stuff, but she's got a great attitude and she's alive. More importantly. And then. I hate to bring this up, but I feel like I owe it to this guy. And when I say. I hate to bring it up, I want. I don't like to bring up an unalive story, but this guy meant a lot to me. So. Richard Carpenter, who. I think if you're in the tpa, I think if you're in the TPA world, you probably know who this guy is. He started tag, which was Tech Technical Answers Group, and. And I just have to say that Tony says legend. I agree. I have spent hours on the phone with him down in the Caribbean or wherever he is living, and we would talk shop and. And he was just a big supporter of everything that we were doing. We actually did an episode with him way back in the day. [1:10:29] Chad: He brought us all around to. He was just so kind. [1:10:32] JD: So he was an inspiration. A Mentor a really cool guy who in kind of the theme of this show like never really like fit that cookie cutter mold. He was proud to like just be himself and kind of rock a room. And so I'm personally cheers to Richard Carpenter and his life. I will, I'll celebrate him. I'll think of him. I miss him. Like, I was bummed to hear that. But fuck being bummed. Dude lived a sick life. He was a happy guy. And. And I, yeah, I cherished kind of the time that we had together. Did you have something else, Chad? Because I have one thing to say to Trey before we close. [1:11:14] Chad: It was just Nikki. It was just not okay. [1:11:16] JD: Trey, I want to say thank you to you and the people at advisor2x for setting up your conference on my anniversary every year. [1:11:27] Chad: Every year. [1:11:27] JD: Okay? My marriage anniversary is on the goddamn day you guys have your conference. And you're doing wonders for my marriage. So thanks a lot. [1:11:37] Mark: Hey, didn't you get a puppy last [1:11:39] JD: year from this conference? Bryant and Ross? I think it's doing swimmingly. [1:11:45] Trey: Well, we pick all of these great places to celebrate your anniversary. Right? We're going to be in Maryland this year. Okay. So Trey, I will. [1:11:55] JD: I'll text you my wife's number. And you try to explain that to her because she did. She wasn't psyched on our anniversary in Las Vegas last year or whatever it was. I'm kidding. We love you, Trey. Thanks for putting on the event and thanks for hanging out with us here tonight. We will see you at wealth at Work in October. [1:12:13] Trey: Yes. [1:12:14] JD: And out there, if you don't know what that is and you're not going there, you should be there. [1:12:19] Trey: And we enjoy having you guys. You've been with us since our second one all the way back at Planet Hollywood. [1:12:24] Chad: Yeah, yeah. [1:12:25] JD: Great. It's been great. So we look forward to it. And then again, chat bar. I mean this. We love you guys. We love you girls. We want to stick our tongue down your throat. That's how much we like. [1:12:40] Mark: We love you guys. But also step it up, step it up. [1:12:45] JD: And with that, I owe you all a Smirnoff Ice. I apologize. I'll do that right now. Oh, my God, you did. Brandon, play some music. And we will see you next time when it's the first or the third Thursday of the month. We're the retire hearts. We're changing the retirement plan industry. One beer up time. See you later. [1:13:06] Chad: See you, Trey. [1:13:07] Trey: See you, Chad. Thank you, brother. Bye, guys.