Build Your 401(k) Pipeline: Strategic Partnerships | Retireholics

[0:22] JD: Welcome to Mutual of Omaha's Tire Haulics. Welcome. What's up? What's up, everybody? Welcome to Mutual Omaha's Retireholics. My name is J. Dizzle. You can call me Mr. Reese if you're nasty. And I'm joined by Chad Nerdy Chad Johansen, Justin Silent Justin McNeil. And everybody's everybody's favorite retireholic robe guy, Mark Tamiani. How's it going, robe guy? Thumbs up. Thumbs up. This is a. This is a special episode of Retireholics brought to you by Mutual of Omaha and their fall retirement plans virtual summit. So that's pretty cool. We kind of get to do a little show for their virtual summit here. We've got two guests that I have the pleasure to introduce to everybody. And, you know, I know these people pretty well. I've worked side by side with them in the retirement plan industry for decades. I've seen them working in the trenches. I've got a very close relationship with them. So I can attest they are true 401k pros. That's not true. I met them two weeks ago on a Zoom meeting. I met them two weeks ago ON a zoom meeting. But I think they know their 401k stuff. I'm going to take a guess that they do. Trevor Asti, Michelle Gibalisco, welcome to the show. Thanks for being here. [2:06] Trevor Asti: Thanks for having us. [2:07] Michelle Gibalisco: Yeah, thanks for having us. [2:10] Chad: Did JD get those last names right? [2:12] JD: Yeah, that does sound right. [2:13] Michelle Gibalisco: It's a soft G, you know, jibalisko, like giraffe. Since we're on the Wild Kingdom topic. [2:19] JD: Love it. I told you, I've known her for decades. I get it wrong once in a while. Do you guys have any idea what you've gotten yourselves into or what your employer has gotten you into? Because it's going to be a. It's going to be a train wreck. I'm thinking, I don't know, before we get started. There's my train wreck. Thanks. There it is. [2:39] Chad: Wow. Nice. I think Justin did it. [2:43] JD: Let's be real. Let's be real. We got a bunch of people tuning in for a virtual conference or a virtual summit here. Are we sad? Do you miss going to these national conferences? And I'm sure it was nice to see people and to sit live in the audience and to go to the dinners, and that's kind of cool. But I think these conferences aren't all great stuff. Can I ask a few of you, like, let's maybe make ourselves feel better since we're at this virtual conference. What are some of the things that kind of sucked at conferences? Because I can tell you this for me, I'll start off and then kick it to one of you guys walking by the resort swimming pool in your khakis with your collar shirt tucked in, late for your, for your breakaway breakout session or whatever the hell you had to go to, and you see someone by the pool with their, their martini or, you know, in their swimsuit and you're just thinking, my life sucks. [3:44] Chad: No, everybody knows you well enough to know that you're not walking through in khakis and a button up shirt. [3:50] Justin: I tell you what I don't miss wearing those stupid lanyards. [3:56] JD: Nothing like walking, walking around the resort with your. [4:00] Justin: Yeah, just like. [4:01] JD: Oh, without it. [4:03] Michelle Gibalisco: Right. [4:04] JD: You gotta do like our lanyard. [4:06] Trevor Asti: Realizing you're in the hotel bar with the lanyard still on two hours later. [4:11] Chad: Yeah. [4:11] Michelle Gibalisco: Yeah. [4:12] JD: Nerd alert. Nerd alert. I usually look at those people when I'm on vacation and I see the lanyards. I'm like, oh, sucks to be you, bro. Sorry. Sorry. Well, so there's some positive things to be on a virtual conference. You don't have to wear the lanyards. You don't have to feel, you know, like you're not enjoying yourself at a resort. You get to do this at home in your PJs and you know exactly where the bathroom is. So this is a 60 minute show. I don't have to tell you where it is. We're good to go. Virtual conference by Mutual of Omaha. Yes, sir. [4:44] Chad: Get the terminology right. It's a virtual summit. [4:46] JD: Summit, yeah. [4:47] Chad: Michelle can prove it's fair, but symposium, what's the difference? [4:53] JD: You guys represent Mutual of Omaha. So what was the decision making process between summit and conference? [4:59] Michelle Gibalisco: What's the dealer rolled off the tip of your tongue? A little faster? Summit versus conference. [5:06] Chad: Okay, Put a lot of thought into that one. [5:10] JD: Fair enough. All right, let's do a little housekeeping. Housekeeping. Housekeeping. Housekeeping. No, thank you. [5:18] Chad: Sleeping. [5:19] JD: No, thank you. Sleeping. That's the guy for the 7am conference he's got to get to. Sucks we don't have a ton of housekeeping. We've got one really important one. Trevor. Michelle. We call it the prohibitive word. And it's a little game we're gonna play throughout the next 60 minutes. If you, you must be sipping from a beer of some kind. I've got a little something here. Show the crowd if you've got your little sippy sippy drink. Very good. But you also, you also Must have a penalty drink. Something that is a little, little harsher. And if you say the following word anytime throughout this show, you must take a little swig from that penalty drink. The word will be advisor. Okay. No. Oh, so does he use that as an example? Like that's I don't have to drink. [6:18] Mark: I don't think so. [6:20] JD: Additionally, if that word doesn't work on you guys, Good enough. I reserve the right to add a second word at the 30 minute mark. So we'll see how that goes. All right, let's dive right into topic number one because this, this audience doesn't want any more of our banter. [6:38] Chad: It's not true. Yeah, they love it. [6:41] Justin: We should just have a show full of random banter that would try that [6:47] Mark: every week, to be honest. [6:48] Justin: This is for CE credits, right? [6:53] Chad: We're going to talk design. [6:54] Mark: Maybe we should invite our audience to, you know, grab your favorite refreshment and join us. [6:58] Justin: That's why we call it. So that's why you call it a summit. We're up here now. We're going to go straight down. [7:05] Chad: There you go, Mark. [7:07] JD: Justin, if you're on the west coast and you're tuning into this conference, it's 8:00am Pacific Standard Time right now. So I don't know how them drinking along. [7:16] Chad: I will be pouring a cocktail. [7:18] JD: Very good. Very good. When Trevor, Michelle and I first got together and we're trying to figure out what we should talk about, Trevor brought up something that I've said to you guys numerous times. Which is what is most important to an advisor when you sit down with them, like, what's the most important thing? That's how it works. And watch how the pros do it. I'm gonna keep it on tab here. Like I'm gonna take it in a second and finish my thoughts. And Trevor and I both agreed. Many financial professionals come to 401k pros like yourselves and their very first question is, how do I get more business? Right? How do I win more plans? So, Chad, let me kick it off with you. These concepts of I think we used to answer financial professionals with, hey, one great way might be strategic partnerships. So explain to our audience while I take my sip of vodka, what are these strategic partnerships and do you think they're still a good way to generate new leads, new business? [8:23] Chad: They are. I think the strategies have changed a little bit because of how you pursue those center of influences, but absolutely still a valuable resource. And I'm going to take one step back to take two foragitty when I Get asked that question. Nowadays, I tell these financial professionals three different ways. First, you mine your own book. Second, you look for COIs. And then third, you go, which is where they always think they should be going, which is running Larkspur lists and pulling company names and calling or emailing or sending mailings. So I think those are the. That's the three steps to doing this. Mining your own book and then cois. I'll start a little bit with the COI world and say CPAs is probably the most effective way to start gaining momentum and bringing in new clients, specifically in the 401k arena. But I will warn most of our partners out there, you're going to find that the referrals you get from CPAs tend to be startup plans and they tend to be time consuming for the average financial professional. And so leveraging partners to help you with that is going to be crucial. Here's my thoughts, though. JD if you're going to go after specifically looking at CPAs, for example, if you're going to go after them, you've got to take one step back and realize what it is that they want from you. They want you to solidify their relationship with their client. They want you to make them look good. And so now you can build your strategy for how you're going to support a referral that you might get from that CPA around that topic. And we can dive into few areas, But I think CPAs are probably the most effective COI for a financial advisor. I'm gonna start early. [10:11] JD: To keep it moving along. I think other centers of influence that you could consider would be like group health shops. Right. You could look at property and casualty shops. These days there's a lot of FAS out there that focus on financial planning and wealth management. And believe it or not, if you can strike up a relationship built on trust with them, they can be good partners as well. Michelle, not to put you on the spot and or Trevor, is that something that Mutual of Omaha is talking to FAA is about these strategic partnerships, if you will. I mean, do you believe in that concept? [10:48] Michelle Gibalisco: Yeah, absolutely. We kind of like to say this business is kind of a lifestyle, not just a business. So anything you're doing from your day to day. Right. Making those contacts. So financial professionals should be reaching out to all their networks. [11:04] JD: Good. I've always been proud of Justin. I feel like Justin creates relationships and work with people that he really likes. And so he ends up doing lots of events and things and happy hours with people within the industry. Both fas and record keepers that he likes. And so that's another good piece of advice is, hey, find strategic partners that you get along with and you can that relationship. Because I'll leave this COI subject with a little bit of advice. What I've seen over the past few decades, which is FAS will get together with that, say CPA and Chad's example, and you'll have a phenomenal intro meeting. Right. Maybe even first two meetings. Yes. I love you, you love me. I've got clients that you could use. You've got clients I could use. This could be a great partnership. You both agree everything's going to be hunky dory and then you move on into regular life and you just end up doing your normal Monday through Friday routine and you don't continue to reconnect the way you should. And then that relationship just kind of fizzles. Unfortunately, these strategic partnerships, they take work, they take time, they take effort. And you've got to make that commitment to get back. So that's the biggest mistake I see is people not, I guess, following through. [12:19] Justin: Yes, Mark, I was going to say, are you. It sounds like you're trying to move away from the COI conversation, but I think we forgot. [12:26] Mark: Okay, [12:28] Justin: well, I was going to say one of the other areas and one that we've, it's been brought up on our show here recently is the HR community. [12:38] Trevor Asti: Right? [12:38] Justin: Those, those SHRM groups, those local groups, just another, another area, another COI to think about. But also, you just said it, jd. Those take a lot of time. But once you become established in that sort of COI community, it can be very fruitful. [12:58] Chad: I'll combat a little bit that the CPA community doesn't take a lot of time. Most of them don't have a resource. And I will tell you in my years of experience, the vast majority of the CPA community doesn't really understand what we'll probably talk about in a little bit, the staircase of funding and how to get more tax sheltering for their clients. They know that they want their client to max out. And typically they tell us that's 19,5. And they don't understand how to get them to 56,7000. So they want resources. And the moment you show them with one client or one webinar that you're the person to bring them that resource, then the next thing you know, if it's during tax season, because that's when you should try to ping them right before tax season. So when this becomes top of mind to them, they Go. Oh, I remember Trevor wrote me now you're the one that gets that quick call about hey, they want to put in profit sharing but I don't know if it's going to be good for them. Now you've built that relationship and one month time period or less because the time of year in which you're reaching out, you're truly establishing yourself as a resource. [13:58] Mark: Yeah, I think, I think it's the key is that timing and having those, those arrows in your quiver for plan design and knowing how to talk to them. Because I know you said, Chad, your experience has been there. They've been easy to get in with. Sometimes they're not that easy unless you're front of mind and showing them something unique. Sometimes they're self guarded. They have their clients are focusing on, you know, plan design is not something that they're knowledgeable on. It's something they're really looking at. So I think that timing is key. [14:22] JD: GPA's got a lot on their plate. It's tough for them to keep up with all of the. [14:26] Chad: Trevor's hard to talk. [14:28] JD: No, I want to, I'm gonna ask Trevor. [14:30] Trevor Asti: I don't wanna cut anybody off. [14:35] JD: Let me ask Trevor this. We've talked about this on the show a few times recently. I think our industry's cool in that you're able to search existing plans through these Iris 5500 databases. Right. And I think isn't that a conversation that you have with, with hungry FAs all the time where it's like, check this out, we can go into this region, come down with this list and I get two, I'm of two minds on this. One is like, that's really exciting and really cool and we're fortunate to be in an industry where we can actually pull a list like that. The other is like how valuable is it? And so what's your opinion, Trevor? Are those lists cool or are they not so cool? [15:17] Trevor Asti: So we always make a joke when we run those lists. This is going to be the first one. This is going to be the first guy to ever sell a plan off a Larkspur list. Not the joke really is, you know, if you're going to go try to cold call one of these companies, you're already behind the ball. I like those lists really from I guess maybe getting the wheels turning a little bit like, hey, I know somebody at this company. I know the CFO over here, I know the head of HR or I know the business owner. I, oh my gosh, I golfing with this guy in the, you know, golf league, you know, those types of relationships to try to get the juices flowing. [15:59] JD: So I always look at it more like, like you said, get the wheels going. I'm kind of slightly more positive on it than you guys and the jokes that you made, but I totally get that. But where I'm like, I think it's cool for an FA to like look at their region, go through that, you know, and find 500 plans and then narrow it down to like 40 and put that kind of metaphorically on their wall, if you will, in the office and be like, okay, those are 40 plans that I want to start to figure out how to get my foot in the door. And if that means dropping off a bag of coffee or finding the email of the HR person or the CFO and adding them to your email campaign or sending something hard copy, you know, through the mail, I mean, whatever it is, it's like a long term game kind of list. And at least I've got a list. I've got some targets I can focus on. But I hear you, and I think our advice to the audience is be realistic with those things. [16:56] Chad: Well, and I like what you just said, J.D. which is you've got to narrow the field, right? So I always tell advisors that are ready to go to step three if they've already mined their book and they've worked on COIs and they're going to start using large square lessons. First thing you should do is pick up small geographical area. Then you should run it for an asset level that is meaningful for you. I usually say 750,000 to 5 million. And then you put an average account balance in there to make sure that these are good plans. So you're not getting a $1 million plan with 300 people. So you run an average account balance, say north of 60,000, and then you get that list. And let's say that list is 100, 150 plans. Now you look for relationships within there, like Trevor mentioned. Now you look for private wealth clients that you might have an employee in a golf buddy, someone that you go to church with. And now you strategically look at those folks. You reach out to Michelle, you reach out to your team, you have them run a 5,500 review that highlights do they have corrective distributions or a couple areas of potential improvement. And now what I tell advisors to do and have, they've been successful with it. Wrap that little one page 5500 review into an envelope. Throw a personal written note that, hey, I was just Doing some research on local companies that I enjoy visiting or that I see as I drive to work. I ran this little review. I'm not saying I can improve upon what you have, but just based upon what I'm seeing here, there's a good chance that I could help you. Let me know if you can carve out 15 minutes. And if you're authentic and you let them know you're seeing them as you drive to work and you've done a little bit of effort, you've handwritten a note, you're usually going to get some traction with those 15. I say 15 or 20 companies that you target from that list. [18:43] Michelle Gibalisco: I think that's good advice, too. And I think putting my marketing hat on, we like to say it's kind of like getting a kid to eat their vegetables. Right? Don't give up so fast on that list of, you know, however many people you're looking at, your first time is probably not going to get you in the door. But keep trying that vegetable. See if you can get them to eat it. Sooner or later, they'll remember what it is. [19:03] JD: That's a great analogy. And you're right, Michelle. I think that's probably the biggest takeaway is that marketing sales prospecting is not easy. It doesn't just happen in a blink of an eye overnight. It takes massive commitment and it takes consistency. And so your vegetable analogy is perfect. [19:23] Justin: Too many people coming from the vegetarian like that one. [19:27] JD: Too many people. I'll make the analogy to cold calling, even though I hate cold calling. And I'm not even sure I would ever recommend that FA do cold calling. But a lot of people that do it, they say, oh, it doesn't work. And it's like, yeah, you called that company once. That's not gonna work. You need consistency. [19:45] Chad: Have you ever cold called company before? [19:48] JD: I have. Back in the day, I used to. No. I used to sit down with advisors and I was so cocky. I would say, got it. I would say I would make like five or six calls in front of them to show them how I thought they should do it. [20:07] Chad: I laugh because it was, what, almost 11 years ago now. I started at PDC. JD hosts a webinar with probably three or 400 financial professionals. And then he put me at a desk. I'm one week in. He put me at a desk with some information. He's like, just see what the hell happens. I mean, you can't sink our ship or anything. [20:27] JD: Just call these guys. [20:28] Chad: And following that, you gave me a list of advisors in the Bay Area. Dang it. And you said, just start calling me. I don't even know how to spell 401k at this point. I'm gonna start calling advisors, apparently. And all it was was to get my. [20:43] JD: We're on a roll, buddy. Hey, but if you remember anything, remember Michelle's vegetable analogy, because that's a good one. [20:49] Chad: Yeah. [20:51] JD: Trevor. Michelle, we like to mix this show up a little bit with a little fun and games at times. And so we got a game. Mark kind of runs the game. Mark, what's the game? [21:03] Justin: It's the lame or game game. [21:07] Chad: Got it. [21:09] Justin: Pretty. Pretty simple stuff. I'm gonna ask some questions, and the questions simply need an answer from you of is it lame or are you game? Sound easy enough? [21:21] Michelle Gibalisco: Okay. [21:22] Justin: All right. And I will always start with Michelle, then Trevor, and then I'll go to these other three numbskulls at some point. So question number. [21:31] Trevor Asti: It's like English class where we just say lame or game. Or do we actually have to, like, give a reason for our answer? [21:36] Justin: It's totally up to you. If you have a passionate answer, please feel free to chime in. [21:43] Chad: If you're short, JD Gives you shit. [21:44] Mark: If you talk too long, JD Gives you so happy medium. [21:48] Justin: So happy medium somewhere. So first question. Starting an email or even starting a call saying the words Happy Monday or Happy Friday. Michelle. [22:06] Michelle Gibalisco: Lame. [22:08] Trevor Asti: Definitely lame, Trevor. [22:10] Justin: All right, Chad, [22:14] Chad: I'm game. I don't say Happy Monday. I say Happy Friday. I say welcome to Monday because it's like a shot in the leg. [22:22] Justin: Well, welcome to Monday. [22:24] Chad: Yeah, you know, it's a little bit. [22:26] Justin: It's a little bit better than. I trust this email finds you well, Chad. I'll give you that. [22:31] Chad: I hope you're making the best of your week, Mark. [22:34] JD: What? [22:35] Chad: I hope you're making the best of your week, Mark. [22:38] Justin: Nope. [22:39] Chad: Yeah, the. [22:39] Justin: Actually, Justin, I'm game for Happy Friday. [22:43] Mark: Just makes me feel good about Fridays. Monday's lame. [22:48] Justin: This is the thing, is, I know we're all guilty of it, but I just. No, jd. [22:54] JD: I don't live my life by the days of the week, Mark. That's lame. It's super lame. Although I do start a lot of my emails with I hope all is well with the fam. Work and life in general. And. But I mean it from the heart. But I do write that same damn sentence a lot. [23:12] Justin: Yeah, I need to try to change [23:13] Chad: that up a little bit. [23:15] Justin: All right, next one. [23:17] Trevor Asti: Well, nowadays it's. You know, nowadays you do mean it because you hope somebody didn't get Covid. Right? [23:24] JD: So that's a good one. That's a good one. Hey, bro, Hope you don't have Covid. Happy Friday. [23:31] Chad: Now I know how I'm starting it off. [23:34] Justin: All right, next question. Watching cartoons as an adult. So I mean like Family Guy and Bob's Burgers. And I'm naming ones I've never seen before really, But I'm just saying them out loud. So any sort of. What's that other one, Archer? I think there is. [23:51] Michelle Gibalisco: Okay, curious. [23:52] Justin: And when I say adult, like, let's [23:54] JD: say like, I don't know if the [23:55] Justin: Mendoza line is there. Maybe like 25 and up, maybe. [24:00] JD: Michelle, I'm game. [24:01] Michelle Gibalisco: I mean, I haven't watched them, but I've watched so much television through Covid. I'm game to try something new. [24:08] JD: Trevor, [24:10] Trevor Asti: I'm watching cartoons of all levels. So I've got a three year old, so I'm watching it way down there. [24:15] Justin: Hey, that doesn't count. I trust watch the Simpsons too. [24:19] Trevor Asti: So, you know. [24:20] JD: Oh, the Simpsons. [24:21] Trevor Asti: And maybe the Flintstones is in that, like, medium. Like maybe the Flintstones is kind of right in that middle. Middle ground. Kids could watch it. They got the lap track. [24:32] Justin: You still have a vcr, so. [24:40] Chad: I have no issue with it. So I'm gonna say I'm game. But I don't. I haven't watched any of them. And I don't think adults should seek out cartoons, I guess. [24:51] Justin: Justin, great advice. [24:53] Mark: Same, I'm game. I don't watch them. But if Family Guy's on, I will kind of get lost in that occasionally. [25:01] Chad: So you watch them. [25:05] Mark: I don't seek it out. Okay. [25:08] JD: I think that's super immature. So I'm lame on that. But I. But I love myself some Rick and Morty, bro. Rick and Morty's. [25:17] Justin: So you watch them then? [25:18] JD: Yeah. One. [25:20] Trevor Asti: All right. [25:22] JD: Only my show is game. The rest of them are lame. And Justin, I promised Mutual of Omaha we us on this show. [25:31] Justin: Well, that just happened. Okay. Since Halloween's around the corner kind of, I guess dressing up for Halloween as an adult. I don't know why I'm going on this adult spree here, but [25:47] Chad: nevermind. [25:48] Justin: Yeah, so. But once again, dressing up. So like wearing a T shirt that says like, this is my costume, like that doesn't count. What I'm saying is, like, if you full blown, go for it. You like go face paint. You look like the predator or something. Like you're just all in. And that could be sitting at home, going to a party, which obviously probably won't happen this year but. Or going trick or treating or to the office. [26:11] JD: People go to the office, right? [26:12] Justin: Like just going for it. Michelle. [26:15] Michelle Gibalisco: I'm gay. I think. Have some fun like that. Have fun. Yeah. [26:19] JD: Good for you, Michelle. Good for you. [26:21] Justin: What are you dressing up for this year then, Michelle? [26:23] Michelle Gibalisco: I don't know yet. I actually gave Birdie, so I gotta start thinking. [26:28] Justin: We were driving home yesterday from somewhere and my daughter or my son told who's two told my wife she should be a banana. [26:40] JD: Trevor. [26:43] Trevor Asti: I better get rewarded by my wife in some way. So what is that getting edited out later or not? You don't know? [26:52] JD: We need more context. [26:53] Chad: Yeah, we need a lot more on that one. [26:55] Trevor Asti: I mean if I'm getting dressed up, it better be, you know, I'm leaving a whole I can't get out of. [27:01] JD: So yeah, that's. Hey, Trevor. That's staying in the show. [27:05] Chad: That's staying in there. [27:06] JD: Trevor. So for the record, Mark, Trevor is game with conditions. [27:13] Justin: Yes. Strings attached. Love that, Chad. [27:16] Chad: I'm game all the way. My wife picks our family outfits for the kids and ourselves and I love it every year. [27:25] Justin: Justin Game. [27:26] Mark: Gotta stay young. [27:28] Chad: Fun. [27:28] Justin: I've never seen you dress up like anything though, ever. [27:32] Mark: Maybe because we live 500 miles apart and we don't hang out on Halloween here. [27:38] JD: JD, I'm 100% game with no comment. [27:41] Chad: Okay, Speaking of that, when are you [27:43] Mark: guys gonna bring back the scary babes at your house? [27:47] Chad: What? [27:47] JD: We're not. We're not. Thanks for bringing it up. [27:50] Chad: JD's hurt emotionally kick ass haunted house [27:54] JD: for probably six years, but we don't do it anymore now that we've moved. Very sad, sad stuff. [28:00] Justin: You know what they say. [28:02] JD: You know what they say. You know what they say, Trevor. Michelle, I know you've never watched an episode of Retire Alex. That's how Mark ends the segment. [28:10] Justin: That's when you know it's over. [28:12] JD: You know what they say. All right, let's dive into topic number two because I know all these advisors on Yep, yep yep on this virtual summit want to dig their teeth into some 401k knowledge. [28:26] Justin: Can I mention something? JD did text the our group text earlier and said lamer game having your conference be called a summit. And I just felt like I was going too long so I didn't say it, but that was a question. [28:38] Chad: Marta, I was going to join you on one to lamer game not using your first name as your first name because when I started back searching Trevor Osti, I came up he has a different name. Record. And I figured he's just not using his first name because he's been arrested so many times. [28:54] JD: Trevor is becoming a really interesting person. Like, there's lots of stuff there we don't quite put together with him. We'll learn more, I think. [29:03] Chad: Trevor, isn't it? [29:04] Justin: What is your name? [29:06] JD: Okay. The first topic was a lot about kind of, in my mind, how to fill the pipeline and this. The second topic is more about the specifics, the important concepts, you know, the things that plan sponsors and prospects need to know about. In a way, pre Covid and into the first period of COVID we had regulation and legislation change almost like never before, in the sense that there was a lot of new rules that came down from D.C. that had big changes in terms of how you run a retirement plan, what you could do for a new retirement plan, what you had to do, and both from a TPA perspective, from a client perspective. And so I think that these changes are important because it's almost like the more change, the better. If you're a FA trying to win business, it's almost like you've got this really rough ocean with tides and currents and big waves and your clients floating around in there or your prospect, and they need your help to guide them through it. So the rougher the waters, the better. Let's start with you, Michelle. Do you feel like this legislation, all these new regulations, is an opportunity for these people? [30:29] Michelle Gibalisco: Yeah, I do think it is an opportunity. I think it's an opportunity to just like what we were talking about before. Right. Like, if you're reaching out to people, that's an opportunity to set yourself apart because people have questions about this stuff. It's super confusing. I mean, a lot of us are in the business and sometimes it's hard for us to keep track of what's going on. [30:46] Chad: Yeah, sure. [30:48] JD: So if you're out there and you're trying to. What specifically we're talking about. We're talking about Secure act, we're talking about the CARES act. And there's lots of great summaries and bullet points that you can take away. But I definitely want you, as an FA that wants to win new business, to think about adding this knowledge to your quiver or partnering with someone, TPA record keeper that knows this stuff inside and out, because it's going to create opportunities for you not only in point of sale, but also in creating a point of sale. And so study up. Find a partner. Come on, Chad, you got to feel super passionate about this. [31:28] Chad: I do. And I'm going to flip it just a little bit. While there was plenty in the SECURE act, and I think we need to touch on a few of those pieces, I'm going to go, because it's front of mind for me to CalSavers. CalSavers is a California based retirement program. And most of the folks who are paying attention to it are financial professionals who are based in California. But the truth is, any company anywhere in the nation that has five employees that are based in California are going to be subject to the requirement of CalSAvers, which means you have to offer a retirement plan to these folks or offer your own qualified plan as an organization. And I think, at least in my experience here recently, that the only financial professionals that are paying attention to it are those that are in California. And the moment I start talking to a couple around the nation that do business in this state, they're not paying any attention to it. And you start to chime, well, do any of your clients have employees out here? The answer is inevitably, yes, most of the time. Think about it. We're especially right now, we're a nation that is operating remotely. You might have a couple developers, you might have a HR person who's working remotely, and a couple of those folks happen to be out of California. They're covered and under the EDD in California. Then yeah, you have to pay attention to this CalSavers program. And there's a lot in terms of changing legislation operating there. [32:53] JD: I could jump on your CalSavers bandwagon and not even related to CalSavers, just in the sense that if you're not in Cali and you're an FA in another state here in Cali, we're going bananas over CalSavers. Right? Like FAs are just, yeah, that was a good check swing. You saw that. We're going bananas over it because we feel like, oh well, geez, every employer would be willing to have this conversation with me, the fa, because it's something new that they need to be aware of. Well, guess what? That's what I was saying in the beginning about Secure act and CARES Act. So whatever state you're in, you treat it just like Cal Savers. You go, dude, do you know that the SECURE act came out, the CARES act came out. There are these things within there that you've got to be cognizant of. Let me make sure that you're on the right path and so be just as excited about that no matter what state you're in. Let me ask Trevor Michelle, from a Mutual of Omaha perspective, The pandemic itself, furloughs, layoffs, you know, all this stuff that's been happening, is that something that you've been helping financial professionals understand as it relates to retirement plans and how they might be able to support and help clients? Does your company itself found that, geez, you had a lot of work to do over the last few months to help clients understand what's happening to them in terms of the pandemic and how it's impacted their business. You guys fight for which one of you is going to answer first? I don't care. [34:25] Chad: Go, Trevor, go. [34:28] Trevor Asti: I'll defer to the lady. [34:32] Mark: Such a gentleman. [34:33] Michelle Gibalisco: He's so kind. Yeah, I think we are. You know, I work on the marketing side of the house, so we are definitely putting together a lot of information for financial professionals to get to their clients. And so we're looking for ways for them to connect more because we're finding that people have a lot of questions and kind of, you know, along the lines of what you guys were just talking about, like if you're not talking about those things, somebody else is. You know, we never want to talk about this too much, but it happens. Like, we get broker of record changes coming through, right? And so somebody else is talking to those plans and they're talking about something that you're not. [35:17] JD: I can tell you, as a business owner myself, when the pandemic first started, you know, it was like crunch time, right? And I really had to buckle down and figure out, you know, was my business going to be impacted, what did this mean to me? And it was kind of a scary times. It all worked out well for me. But I think there's a lot of business owners that went through that period where they're literally running around with their head cut off, just trying to make sure that they could stay in business and get things going. And so they didn't have a lot of time to focus on the changes that occurred. They didn't have a lot of time even to understand what it meant that they furloughed 50 people and how that might impact their 401k. It just wasn't top of mind for them. They had bigger fish to fry. And so even now, as we're months into it, it's probably a time where employers are saying, okay, now let me assess the damage. What do I need to do from a compliance perspective, from a responsibility perspective, to deal with my furloughs, my layoffs, my rehires, these new regs? And so again, not to be a broken record, it just seems like these treacherous waters that we're still in are just a massive opportunity for you to be the lifeguard of 401k plans and get out there and help some people. [36:40] Trevor Asti: Yeah, and we had opportunities in Michigan just you know, right at the beginning with the typical business owner that was too busy to pay attention to their 401k that was likely still going to be in business. Doctors, dentists, orthodontists, stuff like that. Those types of businesses, they were able to focus. But for everybody else it was kind of like basically trying to help FAs, you know, really, really get their business fine tuned and ready to go for when the economy like opens back up eventually, hopefully. [37:17] JD: So yeah, I don't, I like to teach a lot of these guys and girls these days. These FAs like, hey, that's fine. Let's, let's think about what it's going to look like. But the time has come now to focus on today and tomorrow and the next day and not, you know, let's. How can you be effective right now? We've gone through too many months and we don't, and we don't know how long this is going to be. So I don't want to wait for the new nor. I want people to start attacking stuff now. And with that. Let me ask. Mark's always the pessimist. Let me ask you Mark, how do you feel about the virtual world Zoom meetings and I'm talking about sales and prospecting and you know, can I use zoom, can I use video, can I, can I do those types of things or is that just. Are people zoomed out? [38:08] Justin: Well, I taking it step back real fast. I do think people are zoomed out just naturally. Like I think we all get burnt out from a number of different things. You could be burnt out from too many in person meetings over the course of a busy time of year. But [38:27] Chad: I'm burnt out from too many retirees. [38:33] JD: Holy. [38:35] Justin: But I think thinking future forward, that this environment has to now become part of your practice, has to become part of your normal. Because there's a spectrum of people out there that don't know or who are just I guess on the side of like, oh, I don't care about this Covid stuff. And then there's the other side. They're probably going to be three years from now still abiding by some of these things we're doing now. So with that in play, I think there's a happy medium of it's going to be a case by case Scenario, things are going to change, but you definitely have to implement and integrate technology and figure out how you're going to utilize it moving forward. You can't abandon it by any means, even if you're sick of it and tired of it and crying boo hoo over not being in front of your pals and co workers or whomever. [39:31] JD: So I want to shake hands, Mark. I want to shake hands with people. I'm going back the old way. [39:36] Justin: Action is a part of our being, but business wise, it's gonna be, it's gonna be, it's gonna be there. So you know where, [39:47] JD: you know where I think people get this mixed up and then I'll shift to our guests, see what their opinion is. Everyone looks at this as all or nothing. Like, oh, I'm anti virtual like this. Not how I work. I'm not going to work on Zoom meetings and via virtual chat. You know, that's just not how I do things. Look, it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Make it 10% of your business, make it 25%, make it 50. And just so you know, there are a lot of successful financial planners, you know, non 401k peeps that have their entire client base is virtual and it's becoming more and more popular. And there also are prospects and clients. I'm one of them. I love the pandemic. I love Covid. I love this world. [40:36] Chad: Think about it. Provides us, man. [40:38] Mark: I mean, it's been incredible, the lack of windshield time. Now there's that balance of. Mark hit the nail on the head when he said you got to find that happy medium. I've talked to plenty of people who are just aching to get out and see people, kind of. Jd, you mentioned me earlier. I loved going out doing those happy hours. I missed that, but God, I don't miss spending two hours driving down to San Diego just to meet with a prospect, you know. [40:59] JD: So Trevor Fas come to you. They say, trevor, do I really have to get on board with all this stupid Zoom stuff? Trevor's answer is. [41:10] Trevor Asti: My answer is shrinking margins in the 401k space. Take advantage of technology to try to make yourself as efficient as possible. Instead of doing two face to faces a year, do one face to face and one Zoom. [41:23] JD: There you go, hybrid. [41:28] Chad: I'm troubled by that comment a little bit though. Trevor is the shrinking margins in the case space. I believe that's true from a record keeping perspective. I believe it is true from a TPA perspective. I have not seen a shrinking margin from an FAA perspective. Yes, Mark. The only thing I have seen different in the 11 years I've been doing this is I don't have a single financial professional that is taking an upfront anymore. But if they were requesting 50 basis points on a $2 million plan, they're still requesting 50 basis points on a $2 million plan, they're still requesting 25 on a $10 million. We just had a 25 basis points on $115 million plan, which is. That's a little bit outrageous. But I have not seen the margin shrink in the FA space. [42:19] JD: Although Trevor's advice would still be valuable in that, for sure. You're still an FA trying to make proper profit margins. Right. And so, yeah, if you can make your job more efficient. And by the way, it's not just more efficient for you, it's more efficient for your client as well. [42:33] Chad: You know, at times, shame on me, then. You're right, jd. I might have stepped on that a little different. If it's margins that are shrinking, yeah, you guys are being required to do more. You carry more liability than you have in the past. There's designations that are needed. You're taking on fiduciary capacity. So, yeah, margins are down because your requirements are stronger or higher. But I just haven't seen the compression in the FAA space from a cost perspective as I have in the TPA in the record keeping in the 316 and all of these other roles in the case base. [43:07] JD: And, Chad, you know, I love it when you disagree with our guests. I love that. I mean, that we're gonna treat these guys like. No, for sure. What about Michelle? I don't know if it gets talked about enough. The concept of participant enrollment meetings and, you know, the pizza in the back of the room, the two liters of soda, and. And the 50 people sitting in the cafeteria, the conference room, looking at your PowerPoint presentation, literally going, oh, my God, this is the last place in the world I want to be. Can we leverage this Zoom kind of stuff to tackle that? Right. [43:48] Michelle Gibalisco: Like, that wasn't working anyway, and no one wanted to be there. Right. I think, yeah, this is a great place to start with that. And how many times we've had to try to figure out how to, you know, travel from how many different locations all over across the country to fit one big company, and that had lots of locations. And now we can do one big Zoom meeting with everybody on there, and they can all hear the same thing at one time. [44:13] JD: And if compliance is okay with it, you can record that stuff. Right, Exactly. [44:17] Michelle Gibalisco: Yep. [44:18] JD: And I would also argue that one of the barriers before, like, pre Covid, was, okay, well, not a lot of people knew, as crazy as that sounds, knew how to kind of access that stuff and use it, and now they've been forced to, and so they're a lot more comfortable with it. So what a phenomenal opportunity. And I'll go back to Trevor's comment in that doesn't have to be all or nothing. Doesn't mean that every education meeting you give from now till the end of time is going to be on Zoom. No, no, no. But maybe you just do half of them that way, or who knows? So I'm excited by it. I think it's such a cool opportunity. [44:54] Chad: Michelle, let you one question. Before the pandemic, did you see many advisors hybriding that? Dang it. [45:01] JD: No way. No. Right. [45:04] Chad: Are you seeing it now, though? [45:08] JD: To be honest with you, I'm not in a position to see it so much. I am talking with advisors that I know are making it part of big shops that are making it a huge part of Part of what they're doing. Oh, you know, it's bad when you're grabbing for the top of your liquor. [45:28] Chad: So I'll ask the same question to Michelle and Trevor. Are you seeing many of your folks embrace this? And are the people that are embracing it, were they the ones willing to do it before the pandemic started? [45:42] Trevor Asti: So pre pandemic, did anybody know what Zoom was? Right. I mean, you know, I don't think a lot of people in general knew what a lot of these forums were. And now I think a lot of pros are integrating, you know, integrating all this, all this technology into their practices. They have to. [46:03] JD: I'm always at the top of the leaderboard. I'm always at the top of the leaderboard. I'm close. [46:08] Chad: It's like someone you and Chad. [46:10] JD: Michelle, we'd like to play another game around here. It's a game of chance. [46:15] Michelle Gibalisco: Oh, boy. [46:15] JD: And we spin what is called the Wheel of Ice. And if it lands on any one of us, we have to pound a Smirnoff Ice. If you do not have a Smirnoff Ice on hand, you're just gonna have to take a hefty swig from your penalty drink. So, Brandon, let's spin that wheel of ice. The wheel of Ice. The wheel of ice. [46:41] Chad: Hope it's giddy. [46:44] JD: Oh, mutual of. [46:50] Chad: How you finally lost. I saw moo on there. [46:54] JD: There's moo. Do you guys use while Mark drinks? Do you guys use moo a lot. Is that a common. [47:00] Trevor Asti: All the time. [47:01] JD: You do? [47:01] Michelle Gibalisco: Yeah, Internally. All the time. [47:04] JD: Moo. [47:04] Chad: That makes me like you all so much more. [47:06] Trevor Asti: A lot of TPAs use it because all our stuff comes with moo on it. So they're like, hey, let's just call it moo. [47:12] Chad: Call moo. [47:13] JD: Cool. I think you should shift. That should be like your mascot and stuff. Go with the cows. And I like that. Okay, let's move on to the next subject, shall we? [47:21] Michelle Gibalisco: Moving on, what's the next question? [47:24] JD: I want to finish up with this topic. So, yes, if you're at home and you really got to get to the bathroom, just hang in there with me a little bit longer and we'll wrap this. [47:32] Chad: Yeah, one addition. By the way, Trevor nor Michelle have a single prohibitive word, so perhaps you should add another one in and make them. [47:39] JD: Okay, let's add plan for the next until the close of the show. It's both. Just so you know, it doesn't mean you're free to say the a word anymore. It's both of them. Okay, got it. Thank you, Chad. Because you're right. They've done phenomenally well. Okay. Design concepts. And specifically, like, what types of design ideas do you think should be arrows in the quiver of an FA as it relates to trying to win new business, trying to fill their pipeline in that point of sale to trying to find the solutions. And Chad, you're kind of our resident nerd taking into effect secure act and cares and all the path rules. Talk to us about design from a advisor's quiver perspective. Yes, I'll drink that. [48:33] Chad: You sent out what we might talk about on this show a day or two in advance, and I immediately started thinking about this topic and our staircase and our five W's and all these. These things that we've created to help FAS talk about design. And what I kept running back to was they just really need to be comfortable with talking about tax efficiency in a plan. They need to be able to look a plan. [49:00] Mark: Oh, let's do [49:04] Chad: that last one. [49:05] JD: Keep your thoughts. [49:06] Chad: Look a sponsor in the eyes, and they need to be able to justify a company contribution or a match by talking about the tax deduction and the efficiency it's going to create for that ownership group. So the example I'll give. Let's talk real briefly about a safe harbor match plan. Dang it. I added a second word. It's going to bite me. [49:29] JD: Yeah, you're the one that wanted it. [49:31] Chad: They need to be able to look A sponsor in the eye and they need to be able to say, I'm encouraging you to implement a 4% match. Here's what the outlay is. You know, here's expected participation and it might cost you 50 grand. Here is full participation, it might cost you 200 grand. But because you have four partners and the tax deduction that you're going to get for funding that match, your actual out of pocket obligation ends up being 30k because of the deduction that you're going to get and now the ability for your ownership group to maximize their personal savings. When we look at your tax efficiency versus your cost of that match, you're only out of pocket 30 grand. If the FAA community could get really comfortable with encouraging company contributions by talking about the deduction and the efficiency it creates, I think that we would all, meaning working America, be much better off because people would be implementing matches and company contributions. [50:29] JD: I feel like my takeaway from that from you, Chad, is you're telling everyone, look, I could talk to you about Safe harbor solutions and all the different safe harbors. I could talk to you about cross tested profit sharing, I could talk to you about cash balance and these are all awesome arrows to have in your quiver. But I think the coach in you is saying, the mentor in you is saying it's most important that you have conversations with your client about their goals and what it is they're trying to accomplish from a tax perspective. Or maybe they don't know yet, but I guess what you're trying to do is get the playing field kind of leveled out first before you decide, you know, what different designs you're going to throw at them. Or you're shaking your head at me a little. [51:11] Chad: I'm shaking my head at you a little bit because I think when we sit in a meeting with these sponsors, we know what's right for them, we know the demographics of the company, we know what they're, you know, most of the time, we know what the objective is, we know what is right for these employees and we need to get them over the hump of getting them to where we believe what is right for them them is what they implement and the number at explaining the end result because you're right and leverage your partners. Like you could bring in a tpa, you could bring in someone from MOO to talk about the design efficiency, to talk about matching, to talk about safe harbor, to talk about cross tested profit sharing and putting everybody in their own allocation groups and all the efficiencies that are created there. But the client doesn't give a shit about that. The client cares about the end result, the tax efficiency, the employee engagements, whether or not they're seeing a benefit in the plan. That's what they care about. And that's what we need to get better at explaining. [52:05] JD: Can I jump on your bandwagon? And I'll toss it to Too slow, Justin. And I'll toss it to MOO is. We struggle so much with showing, like, fund costs and investment performance and explaining fiduciary responsibility and fiduciary liability and comparing record keepers like MOO to one of their peers. And you go through all this stuff, and I think, as a tpa, it's always important for us to share with FA is that if you come to the table and talk design and you can solve their problems, and then what Chad's saying, you can show them mathematically that you're solving their problems and that there's tons of value, a lot of those other things become secondary. And not that I want to kind of gloss over all of those subjects because they're very important, but the point of sale gets easier because the client is saying, okay, I'm in. So what's next? And then the rest of the things come along backwards. [53:15] Chad: He says, you're becoming a resource. That's what you're doing for them. [53:21] JD: Moo. I'm gonna refer to the two of you collectively as moo. Now, design. [53:28] Trevor Asti: Not by my. You know, my first name. [53:32] Chad: No. We're leaving, James. [53:35] Trevor Asti: We don't want the FBI showing up. [53:37] JD: I am creeped out by that. I'm not sure I gotta figure that out. [53:41] Chad: What do you mean? You have a first name you don't go by either? James, [53:46] JD: how often do you feel like. And don't say, don't agree with me, the tpa, if you don't feel this way. But how often do you feel like design plays a big role in what you guys are doing with FAs? [54:00] Trevor Asti: So I always encourage. Especially the audience that's watching right now, I think, in some ways are intimidated by 401k and all the pitfalls and all the different nuances with design. And the reality of it is it's really just like any other part of their financial planning, financial services business. [54:21] Chad: That's a version. That is a version of the word. [54:27] JD: We didn't really explain that to you, but it can't be any iteration of the word. Yeah. [54:32] Chad: All right. He's got to rethink now. [54:38] JD: I feel like Trevor's the most subdued guest we've ever Had. Do you guys agree with me at all? [54:42] Chad: I would agree. [54:44] JD: Very mellow. [54:47] Trevor Asti: I've totally blown my train of thought. But no worries. It's all about aligning, you know, the goal or the problem with the solution. And, you know, you can always talk to a smart guy like Chad, you know, to solve your problem. Rogue guy. [55:03] JD: I'm not. [55:04] Trevor Asti: I don't know anything about Justin or Robe guy, so this. [55:08] Justin: I feel like I don't. [55:10] Trevor Asti: I have no idea if these guys are smart or not, but Chad sounded smart for about two minutes. [55:14] JD: You're good. You pick up on people real quick. I think you got them point on. [55:21] Mark: Thanks. [55:22] JD: Jd. We were talking design, and I just feel like, again, not to be the same broken record, but I'm sure you guys feel as though there's so many things to focus on, right? So many things that can be the subject matter in a conversation with a prospect. And so, in all seriousness, you gotta be really careful about what topics you want to choose, because otherwise, you're going to spend 60 to 90 minutes in that meeting and you're going to leave feeling like you discussed a million things. And worse, the client's going to leave the meeting feeling like you discussed a million things. And so it's really important to narrow it down. And so what I'm telling you is you out there listening in is make sure you're narrowing it down to the things that are important. And don't ever leave design out of that short list, because design could very well be. Not all the time, but it could very well be the most important subject matter for that point of sale. [56:21] Chad: I will. And I'll add this, jd, the client may not realize how important the design is, but the compliance that comes from the design is incredibly important to the solvency of that plan. Dang it. Shouldn't have added the P word in there. [56:40] JD: You're the only one to drink for it, I think. [56:43] Chad: And what I mean by that is, remember, the design can be creative. You can add in different. Different definitions of compensation, different eligibility periods. There's a lot of things that you can do in the design, but you can get the client in a lot of trouble by being that creative. And even if they're not interested in the tax efficiency and some of the creative things that you can do, making sure that they understand how to determine who's eligible, how to calculate plan compensation. I catch myself. As I'm saying, that's crucial. It's crucial to keeping them safe. And so it always should be. [57:21] JD: Look at that leaderboard. Look at that leaderboard. All right, let's wrap this show, and before we go out, I'm gonna play just a quick little Q and A game, if you will. Conferences, we miss them, but these virtual things aren't half bad. Michelle, I'll start with you. What's the coolest tchotchke you ever left a conference with? And then we'll close out the show with a little song after I've asked each of you. [57:48] Michelle Gibalisco: Oh, gosh, that's tricky, I think. [57:51] JD: Really? [57:51] Michelle Gibalisco: Yeah. I've gotten so many little junk that my kids have in the basement. I got a pair of 401k socks. Yeah. Socks, yeah. Socks, yeah. [58:01] JD: I will take that. Great. Great answer, Trev. [58:06] Trevor Asti: I got one of those can openers one time that actually also had the flashlight and the measuring tape all in one. [58:15] JD: Wow. [58:16] Trevor Asti: Three tchotchkes that you normally get all in one. [58:19] JD: That tells me a lot about you. Oh, no, Brandon agrees. He likes that one. That's our producer, Justin, A growler love. Good choice, bro. [58:28] Justin: Mark, I don't take tchotchkes. [58:33] Chad: Damn it. [58:33] JD: You stole my line, Chad. [58:38] Chad: For the time I'm gonna say it's hand sanitizer. [58:41] JD: He just stole my backup. That was my backup. I was gonna say when [58:50] Justin: we did [58:50] JD: a live show in Orlando in March at Disney World, of all places, right when Covid was coming out and there was some vendor there that had hand sanitizer. And I was very thankful for that at that time. All right. Hey, Moo. Trev. I call you Trev now. Michelle, thank you so much. I'll call you Steve. Thank you so much for being a part of our show at your little virtual summit here. We really appreciate it. Thank you to everyone that tuned in. I'm talking to you, man. I'm talking to you. Thank you very much. And you can check us out@retireholics.com. you can search Retireholics on YouTube. And Mark Sand. Don't waste your time. So have a great. What do you say in those emails? Oh, have a wonderful. What day is this thing? Happy Friday. Happy Friday. [59:44] Chad: Health and Mondays. [59:49] JD: This has been another episode of Retireaholics. We are changing the retirement plan industry one beer at a time. Brannon, play the music. Thanks, you guys. That was awesome. Thanks, Moo. [1:00:14] Mark: Riding on the range. [1:00:17] Chad: I've got my hat on. [1:00:20] Mark: I've got my boots dusty. [1:00:24] Chad: What is it? [1:00:27] JD: I've got my saddle on my horse. [1:00:33] Chad: It's cold. [1:00:35] JD: Check out. Of course [1:00:40] Chad: I want to be a cowboy. You gonna be my cowgirl? I wanna be a cowboy. I wanna be a cowboy.